How do we fix the themepark problem of running out of content? M+ does really well, but that doesn't make the world feel alive.
Your first mistake was treating MMOs like a checklist
>>736328772>running out of contentYou're not supposed to play the game forever. You come back when new content is released. Only major autists and people with no lives play the same game for years on end.
>>736328772This is like spending 24/7 for a month in disneyland then complaining about there not being anything to do. The issue is no lifers.
>>736328772By making endgame content sparse and pushing people to interact with the world and each otherAll instanced content detracts from the game world and when you jam too much in you get current wow. Delete battlegrounds, arenas, heroics, mythics, and whatever new shit I don't care to know about. Make raids tiered again with no catch up garbage so the 1st raid of an expansion is always relevant to someone beyond mounts or transmog And of course get rid of cross server bullshit so your server is its own community
>>736328872I mean, linear treadmills are inherently checklists. This isn't all a themepark MMO problem, because gear could be much more diverse, but without sandbox content, the world is going to be stale.
>>736328772If you can recognise that Rust and Foxhole are MMOs then you get it. If you think only clones like WoW/FF/RS are MMOs, then you don't get it.
>>736328772Roguelike design, procedural content, permadeath, seasonal resets
>>736329663Kill yourself
>>736329737Why? These are really good tools for player retention, see hardcore WoW and Ascension
>>736328772Runescape had a great blueprint.Make a consistent and interesting world that goes back and forth, make the areas feel natural as they transition into each other. Add a ton through the levels with lots of variety so you don't just speedrun one way to the end, add fun stuff and interesting stuff to enjoy along the way.Make the quests interesting and not "Do X Y times" templates, quests should be interesting stories, even if short, that are unique. If you want tasks for leveling, make them tasks, not quests. For the love of God do not lock things to the end game, don't make the end game the meta.Try to encourage "Working together" while working alone. Offer cosmetic ways to interact with the game and enjoy it with others, like building a customized home. Maple Story 2 had a really cool "Home" designer, make one for guilds too. People love showing off and it's a way for people to spend time without advancing their skills, and is evergreen. If you need to, you can add some skilling to it to cut redundancy, while also making it fun to engage with. If it helps defeat FOMO by giving some AFK rewards, that helps prevent burn out.
>>736329109People play games a lot that aren't even living worlds. See Fortnite and APEX. You have to admit that we're on the verge of having a game that can be played as much as people want.
>>736328772throw away all the MMO conventions and start from scratch. make a FUN GAME that brings people together and forces them to interact with the greater community outside of their discord circle-jerk
>>736329887It's good for a niche of a niche, which rapidly shrinks after a person hits 30 years old. 17 year old me would be hype for leagues and racing to the top during the summer after a reset. 31 year old me would resent it because I enjoy taking it slow and being able to set it down and pick it up again when I have time.
>>736329887They have nothing to do with MMOs. They're nihilistic soulless capitalist devices to get people to grind pointlessly because you cant get a job or laid. You should want to play MMOs for the supplementary social element in a persistent community not to mindfuck your dopamine to ding sound effects.
>>736328772hi nutriments schizoi only play mmos like a singleplayer game
>>736328772>ow do we fix the themepark problem of running out of content?Stop.Making.ThemeparksSimpleExcept not possible because people cry whenever there's risk involved in MMOs these days, even though they love it for literally every other genre
>>736330008The community is persistent, the world doesn't have to be. You don't lose your friends and acquaintances just because a server resets. Players are hyped for a Rust server wipe, or to explore a newly generated world. MMOfags need to learn this lesson or watch their genre go under.
>>736330115It is possible, Foxhole exists. And that sequel is coming for it too but medieval. Mmos are just expensive as balls to make so why do something risky when you can try to clone wow?
>>736329663>permadeath, seasonal resetsNo. Having to remake a character and wiping progression are stupid. People would try less if their progression was lost. It would be too grindy.
>>736330282>community is persistentI love the MMOs street fighter, mario kart and chess. You're wrong, stop posting.
>>736329663>>736329887Every time someone brings up permadeath in MMOs I always instantly think about that fat wow guy who literally shits himself when he dies in-game
>>736328772Why is content running out bad? Legion was dogshit and it killed WoW.
>>736330404What a mindbogglingly stupid thing to say, an MMO doesn't stop being an MMO if it occasionally resets the server.
MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online Massive = Well above average Average = 32-64 playersTherefore an MMO is a game with well over 64 player content.>but that means ff and wow arent mmosCorrect>but that means basically only a handful of games like foxhole or albion or runescape are mmosCorrect>b-but my skinnerbox, leveling, seasonal, transmogs, clans, guilds, discord, items, gearing, raiding, ectIrrelevant.
>>736330008a bit harsh, but I agree with this
>>736329272Except that's not living in a world where you can be anything and meet anybody.
>>736330627>seasonal resets are an MMO only feature!Go back to your MMO Diablo and stay there.
>>736330282The original MMOs were all about a persistent online world. Seasonal is a modern capitalist degenerate addiction.
>>736330386Fresh starts are always the most fun part of an MMO, you start on equal footing with everyone else in the game and anyone can rise to the top. Once a game goes on for months and years it gets progressively less fun as players accumulate wealth, the majority of players get geared out, the powergap between players increases ever more dramatically. Keep you character looks / name or whatever but reset the rest.
>>736330826*for you
>>736330859*for most
>>736329345>Delete battlegrounds, arenasNo. You would rarely get those types of engagements in WPvP, and the skill expression is glorious.>heroics, mythicsI would keep them. The problem is the gear treadmill, not that content is instanced. You could make queues server-only, though.
>>736330635Leveling in a zone with 200 players in it is 200 player content
>>736330875Source?
>>736330635WoW had over 100 player content.
>>736331082Agreed. WoW for example isn't an MMO because leveling zones are split up, at best you'll see 20-30 people at world quests.>>736331176Past tense.
>>736330635>Average = 32-64 playersSince when?Most multiplayer games are 4-12 players, only a relatively small number of games support up to 32 let alone 64.
>>736331229Standing in a city with 300 people in it while an 80 player faction raid is happening is 380 player content
>>73633130532-64 player shooters dominate the multiplayer market by volume.>>736331337Doesn't happen. Not actually content which players engage in frequently enough to be considered gameplay.
>>736328772Wow problem, mmos shouldn’t only be just to do hard fights and a lot of you retards do that and forget all other content
>>736331384It happens often enough on PvP servers
>>736330815Look at WoW, players are hyped for fresh or expansion, join in insane amounts, most play for a couple of months and then quit, barely anyone left by the end. Cycle repeats, new server, new expansion. It's the same thing really.Why not just skip the bullshit and have a shorter cycle? Introduce new fun mechanics every season making it fresh, this is the best way to run an MMO.
>>736331804Because that would cost a fortune running multiple development teams. You have no idea how expensive MMOs are.
>>736331916Resetting a server after 3 months and adding a new feature or two isn't expensive
>>736331462It does not, what happens is delves, prey, m+ and raids. Highest player count is 20-40 for raids. WoW isnt an MMO, most is now small or solo content.
>>736331956Its also not interesting or fun. Go play Diablo.
>>736330282People can set up their whole identity in a persistent living world.>>736330826All of those problems are easily fixed. You can (and should) have people in and out of gear daily or weekly (material repairs durability). You can keep hordes of wealth down to a minimum by giving players fun things to buy (infinite lootboxes).
>>736331956>describes a boring superficial change that sounds like shitWoW HAS seasons and seasonal changes every year you stupid fucking retard.
Eve online.
>>736330538Contemporary MMOs are going to lose to an everybody, all day, every day game.
>>736331956You're describing Diablo 4 kek
>>736328772Rather than a linear system with a static world and a logical endpoint (leveling up to fight max level raids), it should be a dynamic system with a volatile world.Survivalcrafts took over because of their great deal of randomness and there still being value in fighting/mining/building the low level stuff even once you were at endgame. MMOs like Star Wars Galaxies and EvE were the only ones that had systems in place where the little guys and the high level guys were important to upkeeping the player-run economy, in turn meaning players at all levels regularly interacted if just indirectly. They are games that don't let parts of their whole world become irrelevant to players as soon as they pass it.If Everquest Next wasn't canned, it may have had the solution to the problem - a perpetually changing semi-random world with a need to maintain supply lines between towns/settlements, and to manage monster populations as broad worldly goals for the entire playerbase in between taking on bigger threats. It could have meant that every area was important for players to keep up on, so that the dynamic spawn zones didn't break out to something like a goblin raid on a town and potentially overrunning it (then prompting players to gang up and clear the town out so people can move back in).
>>736330635I want to set the bar at like 500. There are some 2,000-3,000 people on a capped WoW server at a time.
>>736332056Accumulating heaps of bullshit collectibles only appeals to OCD addicts, a game like this needs to be a proper RPG with lots of choices. players should be able to experiment with different builds, routes and setups. The shorter reset cycle allows players to think ahead on what they will do differently for their next run instead of endlessly grinding for collectibles. That's what makes it so replayable.
>>736332209D4 might be a shitty game but there is nothing wrong with the concept of seasons.
>>736332204>Less retard normalfags = LosingCool, the same argument used to justify not deleting trash boards like /b/ from 4chan.
>>736332323>Accumulating heaps of bullshit collectibles only appeals to OCD addictsBank space would be limited. They would have to craft loop extra gear or sell it.>a game like this needs to be a proper RPG with lots of choices. players should be able to experiment with different builds, routes and setupsYou can have that with the persistent world game. People's social identities are based on everything they do. They want to have something to log back into. They want a living, persistent world.
>>736331956Go play poe, you clearly don’t want to play a mmo
>>736332427Right, if you can add things that isn't just boss power 6.0 like all D4 seasons minus the actual big DLC launches.Imagine a season in WoW where every weapon drops with a bonus enchant on it. Because that's what you'd be getting from Blizzard, as WoW is a much bigger and more complicated game than Diablo.Nobody is playing that shit.
>>736332676There's no reason you can't have similar systems in an MMO>>736332712Obviously the game wouldn't be designed exactly the same way as WoW, WoW isn't the only way to make an MMO.
>>736328772You stop making themepark shitter MMOs and make more Sandbox MMOs.WoW killed Mainstream MMOs because all Mainstream MMOs are themepark trash.
