>game in a popular series has absolutely nothing going for it >except for an over-engineered movement system that you have no reason to actually ever use in the game>because of that its fans spend 30 years pretending a complex movement system is the ONLY thing that matters in any game in its genre>acknowledging anything else is also important would mean acknowledging their childhood fixation is actually not very good >or that other better games in the genre exist
>"if you ignore the best part of the game, then the game is bad!"well yeah, if you ignore a Cheetah's speed it becomes an unimpressive animal
who are you quoting op?
the reason Super Mario 64 is a good game is because the most effective and fast way to play the game is also the most difficult and fun way to play the game. Surprisingly few games pull that off
>>736389440The reason it's a shit game is that it gives you no reason to play fast or effective Is Pokemon well designed because Nuzlockes are fun?
>>736389185quake 1
As you can see, OP is a retard. Anyway, post cool movement.
>>736389185What do you think the main draw in a sandbox platformer is? If you just want to run through every stage to say you've beaten the game, you're not gonna get much out of it.
I like how there's like 10 different ways to get on top of the castle without the cannon.
speedtrooners were a mistake
OP got filtered by Rainbow Ride
>>736389498This is effectively a difficulty settingDo you get to complain a game is too easy, if the game has a hard mode you aren't playing?It's a simple principle of game design. Instead of blatant difficulty options, difficulty is dynamic and tied to the way you want to play. You can complete any Kirby game as a dumb ass 3 year old who lacks object permanence. You can also 100% a save file which requires understanding the nuances and applications of most if not every copy ability. You can play Yoshi's Story normally, eat the first fruits you find per level, and complete the game easily. Or, you can go for the all Melon challenge, which requires pretty extensive mastery of mechanics, and understanding of every level in the game.You can play Mario 64 to beat Bowser and save the princess, which is easy. You can play Mario 64 to get all 120 stars, which is much more difficult and requires a lot of understanding of stages and levels. Or, you can play Mario 64 to go as fast as possible, requiring almost completely unparalleled understanding of the controls, physics, and everything else in tbe game.There is a case to be made for games that never ask for the depth of mechanics they offer, but in an action/platformer like Mario 64, that's not really applicable.It is absolutely the case for genres like JRPGs, where there may be absolutely zero reason to engage with aspects of character building, but this is only the case because there IS no real execution aspect to JRPGs, and the illusion of depth many of them offer is actually highlighted by speed runs, which almost always ignore most of the mechanics in the game and spam one or two options. Pokemon is objectively easier if you ignore the monster catching aspect, and just power level one pokemon, for example. As long as execution is an aspect of your game, it's a factor to consider.
>>736389185>or that other better games in the genre existSuch as?
>>736390512>>Do you get to complain a game is too easy, if the game has a hard mode you aren't playing?Is the hard mode coded into the game? Or do you have to pretend it's there
>>736390512>90% of the execution of your game is frame perfect mashing to get through dialogue 0.3 seconds fasterGrim
>>736389185SM64 doesn't even have good movement. Nintendo completely redesigned the controls after better 3D platformers like Spyro for a reason. Only tendies believe in this meme that SM64 has complex movement like the casual idiots they are.
>>736389185>over-engineered movement systemThis sounds funny now but back in the 1990s 3D games had absolutely dogshit movement system so SM64 feels like a breath of fresh air. Besides this isn't the only thing the game has going for it. A huge world, beautiful level design, and a memorable artstyle. All of that in 1996.
>>736390623I'd say it comes down to simplicity.The difference between completing the game 60%, and 100%, is simple to understand The difference between completing the game in an hour, and ten is simple to understand.The difference between completing the game, and completing the game where [insert the paragraph explaining what the fuck you are doing] is not simple. I think most of these are still pretty fair ways to look at a game, but because they fundamentally depend more on the arbitrary amd complicated nature of the challenge than the game you're playing, it's different.
>>736389185Super Mario 64 was mind blowing when it came out as a 3D game where the camera actually worked.
>>736391352Getting a dedicated analog camera was a bigger jump than the C-Pad abortion in SM64
>>736391352>where the camera actually workedHonestly this is the main thingThe movement was decent but what really set Mario 64 apart was the camera. I think the camera of Mario 64 still is only decent by modern standards, but compared to the 3D that came before it was a MASSIVE gap. The camera was something you could genuinely forget about, which was unheard of at the time
I HATE how Mario 64 is always associated with its speedrunners now. 30 years ago, people enjoyed the game as a solid game with great presentation, level design, music and movement. No, there’s not much of a story - but it’s a fucking Mario game. That is never a selling point.The game wasn’t designed around any of the speed running shit, as most of that is done with unintentional movements glitches. But millions of people loved this game by just going bing bing wahoo, so that should tell you something.
>>736391994analog sticks are absolute shit for camera movement
Why don't games have fun movement and cool glitches like mario 64 anymore? Even new platformers don't feel as good.
>>736393886They do. You're just a stupid N64baby who doesn't play video games so you pretend SM64 has good movement despite Nintendo themselves acknowledging it was mediocre and redoing Mario's controls for the Sunshine based off better 3D platformers like Spyro.
>>736393886>anymore?the closest the platformer genre has gotten to recapturing mario 64 is the modern era where fans were old enough to start trying to ape it. if you think that doesn't measure up then fine but they definitely weren't closer to achieving it in the past.
>>736394072name one
64 is overrated because of speedtroons
>>736389185>movement system that you have no reason to actually ever use in the gameo rlyyou can't think of a single situation where you would like to>wall jump>long jump>back flip>triple jump>ground pound>dive
>>736394093Name one what? Modern 3D platformers with actual good movement? Sure, The Big Catch.
>>736394342that's a cool game but your point about spyro is autistic.
>>736394446>facts are autisticNope.
>>736389185>>736390850>>736394072>>736394072>>736394558>[Redacted by our benevolent #PlaystationNation moderators] can't deal with momentum or anything else that isn't glorified QTE from his moviesSpyro is trash and so is that indie shovelware you are promoting. Originalino Shit mods are faggots death to Hiroshimoot.
>>736395895>can't deal with momentumNobody clearly can that's why Nintendo fixed it and made Mario have proper momentum in future 3D sandbox Mario games.
>>736389185ITT: Fun things are found to not be fun
Comparing Mario to Spyro is like comparing chicken McNuggets with Wagyu steak. Children and disabled people like OP might prefer the nuggets, but adults will always take the superior, refined option. This is why the only people who still talk about spyro tend zo be disabled or 3rd world macacos who only had gaystation in their country.
>>736396034So that's why the games in between 64 and Odyssey felt so stiff. They were targetting the mentally disabled audience Sony had succesfully captured.
OP is a macaco.
>>736396262There's nothing stiff about Sunshine, but I wouldn't expect an N64baby to know anything about good controls.
>>736396574We get it cubesnoy. You blame the N64 and Wii for getting bullied by Tyrone for having the Fetus console, and forcing you to switch to the Gaystation 3 for him to leave you alone. Sucks you had no friends to back you up as a kid.
>>736389185I wish we'd have a game with both complex movement and complex combat.
>>736396752>You blame the N64For killing Nintendo? Yeah, I do. Thank God the Switch saved them from N64babies.
I wish 3D platformers didn't die in 96.
>>736389185man mario 64 is an incredibly good game. I played it for the first time a few years ago and the movement really is amazing. The levels are surprisingly good too. I didn't really appreciate them as much until I started playing SM64 romhacks and it felt like every single person who tried to make SM64 levels just didn't understand how to do it right. They made all sorts of mistakes that the base game avoids. The base game does have a few flaws, especially in a first time playthrough. Lakitu's camera angles aren't really communicated to you in any way and you just have to learn through experience, even if when you learn more about the game and you understand his preprogrammed behaviour the camera ends up being very flexible and deterministic in a satisfying way. So on a first playthrough you can get frustrated that e.g. inside the Pyramid in Sand Land you have a very restricted set of options for camera angles for what feels like no good reason. But it really is the game that keeps on giving. I wish more devs would make good 3D platformers like Mario 64
>>736396262I won't lie, I hated how Odyssey changed the dive. I still enjoyed the game overall, but the way Mario hops the same way every single time he does a dive feels much less natural compared to how 64's dive works.
>>736389185>game reinvents the fucking wheel before you were even born meaning every game you ever played, little zoom zoom, has something it stole from SM64Have you said “thank you” even once?
>>736389185You can complete challenges in Mario 64 in many different ways whereas in something like Banjo Kazooie or Crash Bandicoot your more limited movement means everytime you replay a challenge you're going to complete it in much the same way.
>>736389185Bit too much of reach even by /v/ standards
>>736389498You complete the game faster if you play the game fast and effectively.
>>736397637yeah, the flexibility of the movement and the open-ended level design really means there are so many permutations for how to play the game. Randomizers are also really cool and give you an excuse to use the breadth of different movement options in new ways.
>>736393886Mario 64 is such a unique animal even within the context of 3D platformers that it's more a matter of why 3D platformers deviated so much from Mario 64 than it is why they're not fun in a buggy, glitchy or otherwise unintended way as a consequence of their movement techniques
>>736397784>unique animal even within the context of 3D platformersThere's nothing unique about SM64, Nintendo made the same game again but with better controls right on the Gamecube. Both are even unfinished rushed trash admitted by the directors of each.
>>736396936anime arena fighters and budokai lites unironically have that
>>736396936>>736397965Like, how the fuck are we even having this conversation in a Mario threat without bringing up Smash Bros.
>>736398237smash bros haven't had good movement since 2001
