There should be a law in place that makes patents that aren’t actively being used be voided. Fuck WB
>>736473553Can you explain why the "Nemesis System" being patented is a problem
>>736473701if warner bros became aware of dlsite they could hit a whole bunch of reverse rape eroge and that would be sad
>>736473701When was the last time it was used…?After you look it up yourself then you’ll have your answer
>>736473701If you're in S.T.A.R.S. then Nemesis will git ya.
In reality the patent means jack shit unless you copy the code 1:1. I don't get how the "the ai gains anti stealth traits if you stealth bomb them enough" is different than AI from quake 20+ years ago permanently altering behavior depending on your tactics/weapons used
I mean it's not really that amazing of a gameplay system, the first game pretty much explores all the possibilities with it which is why the second game felt like a grindy rehash.It would've been cool if they reused it for Arkham Knight somehow with the supervillains, like you can recruit Two-Face and Clayface to help you fight the Riddler or some shit but there's not a lot you can do with the system.
>>736473846Well you can argue it in court and likely win, but they have more money to throw at lawyers to make it extremely difficult for you financially, if not prohibitively expensive.
>>736473846Assignee: Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.Inventors: Michael de Plater and others from Monolith.Expiration: Around 2036 (subject to maintenance fees)The patent does not cover the vague idea of “enemies that remember you.” Patents must be specific and novel. Instead, it protects a detailed computer-implemented method and system for managing NPCs and power centers using:Character parameters stored in memory (rank, traits, appearance, power, relationships, interaction history).Event detection (player avatar vs. NPC interactions, deaths, time passage, zone changes, etc.).Dynamic updates to parameters—even for indirectly related NPCs (e.g., one orc’s death changes a rival’s traits or promotes another).Hierarchies and promotions/demotions across factions.Power centers (forts) whose configuration (defenses, visuals) is tied to the leader’s traits.Followers and social vendettas (sharing hierarchies across separate game instances over a network, with synced outcomes).Output of changes to the player (visuals, dialog that references history, UI updates).Claim 1 (the main independent method claim) and its many dependent claims (plus apparatus/system claims) spell this out in technical detail. The patent includes flowcharts showing exactly how events queue parameter changes, how forts are built from “sockets” based on overlord traits, how dialog is triggered by past events, and how social sharing worksThe system has only officially appeared in the two Shadow games (and was planned for the now-canceled Wonder Woman game by Monolith before the studio’s closure in 2025).Because of the patent, other studios generally avoid implementing something too close to avoid potential infringement lawsuits. Some games have borrowed inspired elements (dynamic enemies, procedural traits, rivalries), but not the full combination of hierarchy + forts + social vendettas + indirect propagation.
>>736473553You shouldn't be able to patent gameplay mechanics. Patents like this (and the one that got rid of minigames during load screens) are so retarded. They serve no purpose but to stagnate growth and stifle competition. They just let big buisnesses with a lot of money stop anyone else from using or improving a good idea that players benefit from.
>>736473971That's what you get for not being born into wealth and power.
>>736473553Patents are bad for the eeconomyNo one steals a technological advabced idea and reaps instantly more success than the capable inventor. Companies should also be forced to be innovative. Cut all welfare for multinationals.
>>736473553I'd go even further and say that something like abstract video game mechanics should not be eligible for patenting at all
>>736474093Actually, the peasantry should be forced to give all their money to corporations and serve the rich and powerful forever, and any peasant who complains should be forced to serve as an example by being publicly tortured to death.
>>736474157We already do all of that except for the public torture part
>>736473971>and the one that got rid of minigames during load screensthat got patented?Who the hell did that?
>>736474183Yes, and the public torture part is the really important part. This world exists to be nothing more than a playground for rich, powerful, sadistic sociopaths. A place where they are free to torture whoever they want, just because they can, or even just because. The rest of us are simply here to be their playthings. Torture is the meaning of life and the ultimate expression of power.
>recurring enemy characters with dynamically remixed stats and persistent injuries and attitudesCrusader Kings 3 does this already.
>>736473553How the poe did it then?
>>736473553I remember getting an Orc with the title "Dung-collector" and he literally had SHIT smeared all over him
>>736474183They get tortured by banks stealing their money, closing their accounts and innocent citizens losing the right to move freely.
>>736475017But that's not enough. Imagine entire fields of peasants impaled on spikes. Imagine gigantic machines designed slowly to grind peasants to death. Most importantly, imagine the rich and powerful laughing and laughing and laughing like a kid burning ants with a magnifying glass, as the world is permanently ruined just to feed their insatiable hunger for cruelty for cruelty's sake. Isn't it beautiful?
>>736475162*designed solelyThe point is that cruelty is the point. Of everything.
>>736473934Anon I don't know how your patent rights in USA work but what happens when WB gets eaten by Netflix who do not care about video games, who then becomes the patent holder or will it just expire perhaps after 2036 like you suggested? Unless some fuck gets it if their hands in an auction?
So long as you have documented proof your game's system is implemented differently enough they cant do shit.The problem is less the patent itself and more WB made it, a company notorious for legal teams bullying smaller companies into handing over money.Monolith devs changed their games name to Star of Providence several years after games release just because WB made a studio called Monolith
>>736475287The patent only pertains to the exact system described in the patent. So regardless of whether the patent is utilized by WB or whoever acquires the patent, it can only come to play if some developer tries to make a 1:1 ripoff of Shadow of Mordor
>>736474242Bando namai.Its why the budokai games had loadingscreen minigames and no ever game of the era. Until loading screens were fast enough it became irrelevant.Multiplayer games (dota for example has a ton of minigames now) get around it by having minigames while queuing but not loading the match itself.
People vastly overstate the effect of the patent or the worries of a frivolous lawsuit from WBYou aren't getting games with a "Nemesis System" because it's an absolute ballache to create and doesn't just easily slot into any game you would need to design from the ground up with it in mind
>>736474093stop being antisemitic
>>736473934Granting anyone game mechanics patents is industry level suicide. I understand copyrighting games and their designs wholesale as an IP entity but patenting a game mechanic that seeks to just take everything possible and stick it in... That's just wrong and monopolistic.
>>736477270in the patent the Nemesis System is identified by 7 different distinct components forming exactly what the ingame experience of the exact game is like. The patent can't be used to troll developers who create their own versions of elements of the Nemesis System, it would have to include all 7 of the elements like "Power centers (forts) whose configuration (defenses, visuals) is tied to the leader’s traits" and "Hierarchies and promotions/demotions across factions" as well as the other pieces mentioned here >>736473934, in which case the copycat game would be a literal ripoff of Shadow of Mordor and they would actually deserve to be trolled. Actually, the way the patent filing publicizes the exact way the Nemesis System is constructed is a great resource for other developers in providing ideas for creating similar systems of their own.
>>736473553people complain about this shit being patented but what games would even benefit from this?Most action/RPG games has you killing thousands of enemies, how or why should they somehow survive and comeback?If you're going to complain about patented mechanics use the "minigames during loading screen" one or the "Sanity Effects" from Eternal Darkness
xcom 2 wotc got away with it. WB won't do shit.
>>736473553I loved tge nemesis system in the first one but i thought they way overdid it in the second one. It didnt feel real. Dead officers were coming back too fast and too many times with too ridiculous buffs.
>>736473762When was the last time your dick was used?Doesn't give someone the right to cut it off and take it just because it's been a while.
>>736473701Patents in video games are gay and cringe and stupid as fuck lol
>>736473934>Stored in memoryWell, so at least a gaas/online only game can do a nemesis system
>>736478227yes it doesyou have been a virgin for too longtime to become a girl
NOOOOO DON'T BULLY THE BILLION DOLLAR COMPANYWE DON'T NEED THE FEATURE ANYWAY, LET THEM HOARD IT
>>736473553the bigger issue anon is that design patents like the nemesis system let you be a massive jew about someone merely PARITALLY copying your design.the nemesis patent is comprehensive enough that you can't do anything similar to it without them kvetching for shekels.
>>736473869not quite.the second brought more depth to the system itself, balanced it out a bit more, and added this funny feature where the orc that killed you the most in the FIRST game is grabbed from the files by the second and brought back under their new system.Which was one of the coolest things I had ever seen, until I got a bit disappointed because they actually had nerfed my biggest nemesis by putting him in the new system.
>>736473934>Character parameters stored in memory (rank, traits, appearance, power, relationships, interaction history).>Event detection (player avatar vs. NPC interactions, deaths, time passage, zone changes, etc.).>Dynamic updates to parameters—even for indirectly related NPCs (e.g., one orc’s death changes a rival’s traits or promotes another).>Hierarchies and promotions/demotions across factions.>Power centers (forts) whose configuration (defenses, visuals) is tied to the leader’s traits.>Followers and social vendettas (sharing hierarchies across separate game instances over a network, with synced outcomes).>Output of changes to the player (visuals, dialog that references history, UI updates).Literally all in Din's Curse, which prepares the patent. Good luck winning in court on that, of course.
Nintendo literally tried to patent jumping and 3D camera control. They are a bigger issue than a shitty nemesis system
>>736473553No, but there should be a law that doesn't allow shit like concepts, game mechanics to be patented.
>>736473701Can you explains why it should be protected by a patent?
>>736473701Yeah, because Soldak games did it before warner, dipshit.
>>736473553I will never understand people sucking this system off.
>>736478227>using a copypastable idea that someone came up with over a decade ago that hasn't been used by the inventor in all that time and wouldn't prevent him from using it again in the future is totally the same as taking a physical object away from someone. >therefore, any patented idea, no matter how good, no matter how much potential it has to make live (or games for that matter) better for everyone is doomed to sit uselessly written down on a piece of paper in a drawer, never to be evolved into something better, never to be innovated on, stalling our development for decades to come just because retards buy into the propaganda of greedy fucks to compare ideas to physical possessions.We are a species that come so far through shared ideas. If retards like you reigned over the world, we'd still sit in caves eating berries.
>>736473553Literally anybody could have made something similar, it's just that nobody did. You just can't use the exact mechanics and code they did. Given that nobody really made their own version, clearly it wasn't that wanted of a mechanic.
I didn't realise WB still had active bots on 4chan.
>>736480291It's the only way to keep profits flowing. Don't forget to buy our merch!
>>736480219Well yes. Normies want shit like fifa or cod.Developers wanting to try new shit in games tend to be indies. Of course genpop doesnt want nemesis, they want to shoot things. Not depth.
>>736479303that patent clearly fucks up anyone that tries to create a smarter combat system for an army based game. The only real competitor to this is Dynasty Warriors and they circumvented this by having the normal map triggers loaded per mission map that increasingly get more difficult. This system would at most be at most interesting in a gacha or mmorpg with returning and evolving characters / regions. Still you can circumvent this if you eliminate the player element and keep it as purely the PvE social interaction element. This is why Monster Hunter doesn't get slapped. Honestly just have a system that doesn't evolve the evolution of the enemy if you die and you can get away with incorporating almost all of these systems. But because they set the standard human psychology has a way to copy too close to the original.
>>736478110Do you get better rewards for killing them? Fights in general shouldn't take 3 seconds, but zoomie can't comprehend anything that takes longer than seven seconds. Like methheads can't see antything still.
>>736480291Anything in the Internet becomes porn or a commercial.
>>736473971DID YOU KNOW:To this day, "Cloud Saving" is patented by a Rothschild. Every single service that uses "cloud saving", including Sony, Microsoft and Valve (yes) has to pay a fee to be allowed to use Cloud Saving in their games/software. All of them did so, because it's less hassle than going to court for it. You might have heard of the recent Valve vs Rothschild scandal, it happened because they got greedy and decided to sue Valve a second time for it, even though Valve already paid the tax once.
>>736480219The fact that the patent exists creates a chilling effect because they'd have to be fucking nuts to go through all of the costs and risks of litigating their game's validity.
>>736478227>troon analogy
>>736480747they back pedaled because the heat really draws a target on their ass. honestly the generational shift amongst the old powers guarantees these people always fuck up in some capacity and this was one of them. But they are back to their old shennanigans with trying to out price everyone from the high tech PC parts market.
>>736479759 Exactly. Patents were meant for actual inventions, not “what if enemy remembers you lol.” You shouldn’t be able to lock up an abstract gameplay loop for 20 years just because you were the first corpo with enough lawyers to file paperwork. That’s like id patenting “moving and shooting in first person” and telling everyone else to go fuck themselves until 2035. Protect your code? Sure. Protect your specific implementation? Fine. But patenting the *concept* of dynamic rival NPCs or cloud saves or whatever flavor of the month mechanic is just corpos turning creativity into toll roads. Game design evolves by iteration. Letting suits freeze basic ideas in amber is how you end up with a stagnant industry full of safe sequels and zero innovation.
>>736479795You morons don't know what a Patent is. They're not some generic abstract like "I patent the idea of jumping in video games" they are ultra specific things. "I Patent jumping in a poly-refractored 3D envicronment using occlusive lighting to render a camera pivot mid-jump that affects the trajectory of the character model" is what a Patent looks like.The Nemesis system and specifically having a rival who upgrades when you beat them has been legal fair game since it came out. Nobody follows up on the concept because its a ton of work for a minor thing that basically amounts to "and then next time you fight this guy he has a counter to one of the attacks you used last time" because that just leads to gameplay that most normalniggers complain about because their builds keep getting invalidated as the game progresses.
>player picks up a stone>NPC comments on it>NPC gets renamed to "THE BIG BOULDER">NPC now wears a big stone on his head all the time and flings small pebbles at the playerWHOA WHAT A COOL SYSTEM!! OH MY HECKIN SCIENCERINO!!!!"Nemesis system", what a joke.You guys are really easily impressed.
>>736473553The point of patents are supposed to protect inventors from being raped to death by people with more money just copy pasting their work.really there needs to be some kind of check and balance of:>did you make a bunch of money from your novel idea? yes/nodecided by a judge or something, then the patent becomes public domain
I'll let you in on a little secret. Like most patents, the Nemesis system doesn't patent the end result, but the cause: Their methodology to -make- NPCs with heirarchies and developing traits and weaknesses. That's it, you can't crib their code. If anyone really, really wants to make their dudes do the same thing just code it differently. That's it. The narrative about this has always been fucked since some random anon misread the patent way back and it's a sort of big R Romantic narrative: Big Evil Company Prevents Interesting System from appearing anywhere else. The reality is more banal: Nobody either thinks its worth the effort or is even interested in making their own version coded differently.
>>736483434>NPC gets renamed to "THE BIG BOULDER">NPC now wears a big stone on his head all the time and flings small pebbles at the playerKino
>>736483434That's based, more games should do that.
>>736483434It's not about being impressed, it's about such concepts not being subject to patent trolling bullshit.
Fuck the talk about Nemesis system, am I the only one that's sad there's not gonna be another Shadow of X game?
