RTS never died.
Anyone claiming RTS is dead doesn't actually want to play an RTS, otherwise they would be playing RTS games instead of making that claim.
name 1 classical RTS (base building, workers extracting resources) released in the last 10 years that isn't AOE4.
>>736542239Why play any new RTS when perfection has already been achieved?
>>736542223This except unironicallySame exact thing when it comes to arena shooters
>>736542264because that's homosexual.
>>736542223>Anyone claiming RTS is dead doesn't actually want to play an RTSYes? Very few autists like the genre and want to play RTS. That is why it is dead
>>736542381>nooo I don't understand rts>if I don't understand rts, no one does
>>736542175RTS just evolved to MOBAs and auto battlers
>>736542239That's an outdated model that nobody really cares for anymore. And genre purists only care about fellating old games.
>>736542590that's the only model of RTS. anything else is real time tactics. RTS truly is dead when the only way it survives is commandeering a different genre.
>>736542175only games that streamers play and abandon die,every game on twitch with less than 5k viewers live is already dead
>>736542582more like devolved thenor maybe degenerated into them would be a more accurate thing to say
>RTS releases that's not like Starcraft/AoEWHY REINVENT THE WHEEL? HERE'S 10 LESSONS THAT [game] SHOULD HAVE LEARNED FROM STARCRAFT/AOE>RTS releases that is a Starcraft/AoE clone>WHY WOULD YOU PLAY THIS WHEN YOU CAN JUST PLAY STARCRAFT/AOErepeat x 1000000000000 until the RTS genre is dead
>>736542175Correct.
>>736542582Also town builders, colony sims, tower defense, tycoons, and idle games. People would play just about anything other than RTS.
RTS has never died and currently has bigger audience world wide than ever before. When will low iq americans understand that if blizzard says rts is dead because their game flopped its cope not the truth. Are you seriously so fucking retarded?
RTS died when instead of quality single player campaigns, it pivoted towards multiplayer quick-click competitions and always favoring rushing and ""micro"" at the expense of everything else
>>736542840Nigger you are so fucking stupid
>>736542838>currently has bigger audienceThat is because everything has a bigger audience, twitch youtube etc are overall just bigger now.It doesn't mean the genre is more popular, no one really plays it other than streamers because it is not a fun genre to play.
is it truly alive when the only extant games are unironically 30 years old?
>>736542840Exactly. There are a few that tried to make good campaigns but most are quite shitty. Deserts of Kharak and Grey Goo were OK
>>736542840And for the same reason 4x/turn based strategy games shined. More focus on single player, less sweaty gameplay = better game and more players
>>736542239Dawn of war 3Halo Wars 2War PartyIron Harvest
>>736542979baits used to be believable
zero-k rules
Only 2% of people are capable of true multitasking. The other 98% think they can multitask, but what they're actually doing is switching between tasks rapidly, and can forget about one if the other is intensive. Multitasking is a feature unlocked by having 130 IQ. It doesn't mean RTS is dead because only 2% of the population can play it. It means it filters out the subhuman trash that is the 98%. RTS has a rather refined audience.
I'm looking forward to D.O.R.F
>>736542840same thing happened to fps basically
>>736542175It's a weak genre because the gameplay is just a bunch of shallow minigames. You have base building, but you only plop down a total of five buildings randomly to unlock everything. You manage units that are mere HP sponges with no realistic simulation. Resource collecting is just about instantly turning ore into credits. Other games with a more specialized focus let you do more of the things you want and fewer chores.
I just always wanted a Company of Heroes/Gates of Hell where you could play as the Japs, do banzai charges and watch your opponent rage in chat, and then emote banzai cheer as their base blows to smithereens... :(
>>736543169my theory is that asians and a small portion of americans are just zooted off the caffeine which is what enables you to actually play rts
ITT>faggots that don't play RTS and only knows about games from the largest megaphones but form opinions about RTS anyways
>>736542223True. RTS games still come out like almost every year.
>>736543351I want someone to make a RTS that is made specifically to avoid micro-managing. Where you can position your units, give them orders, and then it's up to their morale stat how well the execute them. The closest thing to micro-managing would be the ability to tell them to retreat. Things like that.
>>736542175RTS never lived. Game budgets were just small enough that the return was positive and acceptable. But the size of the RTS audience never grew.
>>736542175Creeper World 3 is the epitome of singleplayer RTS; the campaign is fine and teaches you the ropes, then the hundreds upon hundreds of "custom" map in that constellation mode or whatever it's called, is so fucking peak.
RTS used to have variety, but nobody makes RTS like Age of Empires anymore. They're all Starcraft clones. Every god damn one is>3 factions: normal guys, cheap swarm guys, expensive tech guysThere's a reason people still play Age of Empires 2 in 2026.
>>736543470Warcraft 3 solved this problem>much smaller armies>larger HP bars, smaller attack values>much slower cp,bat
>>736543470So grand strategy?
>>736543049Nothing is cooler than Zero-K.
>>736543509W3 is insanely micro intensive. It's because each individual unit is so much more valuable that micro has a much bigger impact in fights. When armies are larger and units are more squishy you just grab everyone and A-move.
>>736543504forgot pic
RTS died because it's main advantage was that it was a genre that made use of limited graphicsvery few people actually like RTS gameplay, they just played through the campaign doing the turtle->build up->deathstack push and thought it was coolthen they played custom mapsthis is why eventually the custom maps became their own subgenres and rts died, the base gameplay formula was worse than the game engine
>>736543504Sounds like you want a total war type game without all the gimmicky shit
>>736543569>much more valuable that micro has a much bigger impact in fightsYes but they are also much harder to lose. In starcraft of aoe you can lose half your army in a split second while in WC3 you can take a piss break during a fight and come back to only see that your army is still at half HP
>>736543613Lol, this was meant for >>736543569
>>736543509No it did not.>>736543519Indeed, in some ways. I especially like how, in HOI4, you can "draw battleplans" or whatever it's called and then your assigned leader of said army executes that plan to the best of his abilities. I want similar features, but more zoomed in and a bit more abstract. So like a mix between (some parts) of HOI4 and a regular RTS.
>>736543569Supreme Commander 1, nigga. The game is all about setting up infinite queues of units that you send out to waypoints and patrol routes.
>>736543629I disagree. That's only if you micromanage your individual units in such a way that the injured are pulled back and you micromanage your healers/units with self-healing abilities. I fucking love W3, I wish reforged never happened and that battlenet still existed; that we could just log in, download a shit ton of random custom maps and play them singleplayer, like in the good old days.
>>736542783Perhaps we could say that Classic RTS games died(like SC, C&C), but even then it's not really dead but simply fell out of the mainstream>>736543629>Flamestrikes/Blizzards your army>>736543440Waiting for Space Tales to be finished, looks cool
>>736543741Sounds like you want to play an autobattler instead.
>>736543803That's fair, but I was just taking up the other anon's argument. I personally love the micromanagement. W3 is the comfiest middleground ever achieved in a game genre
>>736543795>>Flamestrikes/Blizzards your armyOh no, I have 2 minutes before they take any noticeable damage
>>736543795>Never heard of Space Tales>Look it up>Current year, and it's actually cartoony, without looking like Fortnite/Dreamworks.I especially did not know that people still knew how to do that last thing in video games.This looks amazing. Wishlisted and downloading demo now.
>>736543927>implying
>>736543962>>736543795Total Sloppa
I have pretty high hopes for Stormgate. I know the launch was rough but I think 1.0 will pull it around.
>>736542239>workers extracting resourcesIf “classic RTS” just means copying Dune II, then yeah -- SC/AoE.If it means actually commanding armies without artificial busywork, then Total Annihilation / Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance are closer to the core idea.Things like full map zoom out with tactical icons are way more definitive than resource harvesters.
>>736543962>>736543795Made me look the game up too. Why would you make me cum in my pants like this
>>736542239Godsworn
>>736544072
>>736544114>>736543962thank you, 500 Vietnamese đồng have been added to my account
>>736544072No one cares chud
>>736543582>played through the campaign doing the turtle->build up->deathstack push and thought it was coolIt is. The problem is barely anyone tried to expand on this concept. The best we got is They Are Billions and Factorio and some of their offshots. I really enjoyed Mindustry and how it goes from your average tanks and planes to mcfuckhuge mechs firing giant lazors, and having to defend against like 20 of those per wave in endgame, the only problem is static spawn points making the whole thing kinda dull.We really need a proper siege simulator that goes batshit insane towards the end.
>>736542175Heroes never die.
>>736542239Name 1 classical *anything* released in the last 10 years.
>>736543575I love 4 and the 3d perspective a lot but 3's music was absolute peak and I wish 4's was even remotely as good.
The difference between a real RTS and an artificial RTS (also known as MOBA).
>>736544748classical wow
>>736543305but multiplayer FPS games became slow, retarded and designed around controllers
>>736542690>release RTS that require no motor skills whatsoeverLOL CASUAL SHIT, NOT PLAYING HELLO KITTY WARS>release RTS that require non-geriatric level of inputsLOL APM GOOKCLICK FEST, NOT STRATEGY
NO GOOD SINGLE PLAY NO BUY
>>736542919I'm 30 years old and alive, checkmate.
I just wish there were more RTS games that focused on combat strategy than economy and logistics. I know there's RTT games, but then those gut the economy altogetherAlso, all menuing should be centralized like in C&C, rather than clicking specific buildings to see their upgrades and such, and the camera should be able to zoom all the way out.
>>736543169This.RTS should have at least the first 10 missions be ONLY about *slowly* easing in the player into multitasking all that shit, instead of calling it a day after showing how to build a base and A-Moving.Would do wonder for new players retention.
>>736544949You may show some signs of life, make noises, grunt and chew your food when it is placed in your mouth but if we took a brain scan right now, we would see that there is no real activity in your brain. It is just your brain stem doing its job. Are you truly alive?
Why do RTS fags think they are unique in their genre being dead? It's all vidya. Games are not made for us anymore.
>>736542175Thought the thumbnail was a piece of steak sitting on a tree stump at first
>>736543509>>Warcraft 3 solved this problem>Game where 99% of all game-deciding battles are decided by a critical unit eating a quick surround
>>736542175the whole genre lost to Project Nortubel
the only game i play is company of heroes 2i play games like fallout, cyberpunk but those only last like 80 hours of play timei have 8500 hours in coh2its been abandoned for 3 years since they made a new one but the new one fucking sucks and coh2 still has more players than coh3developers can't make good RTS anymore
>>736544845
>>736545186>WTF I didn't know they made a CoH3Grim
>>736544996Warzone 2100 might be what you want.
>>736545091>but if we took a brain scan right now, we would see that there is no real activity in your brainIf that's your criteria then Earth is effectively a dead world.
>>736543519I want a RTGS, Realtime Grand Strategy. Let me play being a Moravian king in the 14th century for 46 years before either he or I perish to gout.
>>736543470thats literally company of heroes gamesno economy to manage, its entirely based on positioning units, way less micro intensive than starcraft or aoe, your economy grows with how much of the map you take although manpower is fixed and goes down the larger your army sizearmy composition is way smaller than starcraft where you just make a giant blob and blob into each other, its way more simple
>>736545163>amerilard enter the chatI wonder if we will get kino "Iran attacking the world" FPS/RTS in the coming years, like we did after 9/11.This is probably the only other time the power that be would allow something like C&C Generals to be made again.
RTS games are fun with friends in a FFA setting. Competitive RTS is boring to play but fun to watch if it's wc3 or sc2
>>736543351RTS has had realistic projectile simulation since 1997 (TA).
>>736545386China could make ithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As0rplNJTZI
>>736542840lolthe RTS genre has always been entirely about multiplayerits literally even more nerdy chess single player shit was nice when it was done well, but 99% of RTS players want to play against other humans
>>736542239beyond all reasonhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VGdeXJqzNg
>>736543507>They're all Starcraft clones.List 3.
Name 5 single player RTS games released in the last 5 years.No remaster or remakes. I only know about Tempest rising
>>736542175Been dead for 25+ years retarded faggot nigger
>>736545481>99% of RTS players want to play against other humans
>>736545586dont be salty you suck at them
>>736545624>u suck u suck lolol get rekt noob what's ur apm>why doesn't anybody play these games anymore?!
>>736545503The GOAT
>>736544854it took a weird path, now you have fast fps where all you do is hold W and the games should be aim focused but they end up having insane auto aim on controller so aim is meaningless. single player fps is pretty much dead and multiplayer has pivoted towards aggression, competition and, aim, it's just that aim only matters for half of the players lmaoo
>>736544091SupCom does have workers extracting resources when you take into account reclaim and is quite necessary for high skill matches.
>>736543509>Warcraft III>low microoh lawd
>>736545293Build your derricks and a power plant every now and then. It's so simple.
>>736544072>human Vietnamese developersIt's written like their developers are human-Vietnamese hybrids
>>736543470That's literally Kohan.
>>736542223I think enough people play for it to not be considered dead, but people naturally want more because the genre inherently deserves more. It's objectively the 3rd or 4th best genre because of how intense it is and how invested people get into it. It has greater adrenergics (the shakes) than most, if not all, other genres.
>>736542175Anyone hyped for dustfront?
>>736547953I am, but I'm not sure if I will live long enough to see it released. Same with DORF.
The worst part of all rts games is the base building and and economy management. People complain about having to "micro" guys but id way rather do that if I could put my full attention on it rather than that + constantly jumping back to base to make sure I have some numbers the game is demanding I need to have. Yes I have played CoH and yes I do like it, just wish there was more like it.
>Playing rise of Nations>Put up material buildings>Train dozen peasants>They go and man them automaticallyWhy are basic AI assist features so rare anyway
>>736543169I unironically have 130iq, tested with a real in-person multi stage iq test not some online quiz, and I can't multitask for shit.
>>736548946Zero-K. It has base building but it requires far less micro and attention to handle it than any other TA style RTS.
>>736542175RTS die with 3d graphics
>>736549204I didn't try that one but I tried BAR, and if they are similar in any way then it's still not even close to cadualized enough. I cba to "learn" how to balance a metal/energy economy at all, BAR in particular seems to want me to be constantly nonstop expanding my base which I cannot stand.
>>736543470>>736543519there is a game in dev like that, it's less focused on production and stuff and more about managing your army and military campaign but I just can't remember it's name
>>736548946You don't want RTS then, you want RTT.
>>736549418>>736543680Battleplanhttps://store.steampowered.com/app/3743140/Battleplan/
>>736545558Age of Empires 4Homeworld 3Company of Heroes 3The Settlers: New AlliesStronghold: Warlords
>>736548946There's Sudden Strike, for starters. And World in Conflict.
>>736549270age of mythology was great and you are gay
>>736549308The base expansion can be easily managed with blueprints
>>736549308They have similar origins but Zero-K experimented and deviated from the standard total annilation formula. In Zero-K, metal, energy and build energy are 1:1:1 with each other. Build power is measured in metal per second. You won't stall for building a different type of unit or building. I'd say solars are far more efficient in Zero-K than BAR, and constructors are also more efficient. Instead of having energy converters, excess energy goes to overdriving your metal extractors.
>>736542582Nope
>>736549270This game is impossible to play at modern resolutions.
>>736549817Age of Mythology, Kohan 2, Emperor: Battle for Dune, Majesty 2 are the exact games I pick as an example of SEVERE aesthetics downgrade just because they had to use brand new 3D tech. All of those games had predeccessors that looked fantastic in 2D and looked like poopoo in 3D. AoM at least kept the good gameplay intact.
>>736549840blueprints of what? If the game doesnt provide viable default ones to me you can be sure as shit im not figuring out my own.
>>736549902Also the tech tree is flat. Every constructor can build everything. The only thing you need to manage in your base is building an extra caretaker (Zero-K's construction turret) when your metal income exceeds consumption (one caretaker per 10 m/s, factory is also 10 m/s). Sometimes you build extra solars or a fusion since repairs cost energy or you get extra metal income from reclaiming things.
>>736549270retard>>736549985ah, yes, truly fantastic 2D look
>>736550063He's talking about BAR. Zero-K is way better and you don't need blueprints.
>>736545671You're pretending that I say both of those things but only noobs say nobody wants to play the games anymore
>>736549902true that ZK's economy makes much much more sense than BAR's arbitrary build costs and times, but I don't think it's still a good game for that anon's preferenceseven if the units are also not as retarded by themselves, you still have to jump back to base to babysit things, expand and take the map to win,
>>736549902Yea none of this really means anything or makes any sense to me. All i hear is that I need to be going back to make more buildings and i couldnt give less of a shit about making buildings. Unless the game has a mode where an AI makes all the buildings and units and i just get to control whatever it shits out for me, then im not going to be interested.
>>736542590>nobody wants to manage money and people in a tycoon type game>nobody wants to adjust car parts in a racing sim anymore>the whole "reach the end of the platforming level" model is out of style
>>736545481>me me me>my opinions>my playstyle>me me me
>>736546236>single player fps is pretty much deadThe ones that get made in decent quantity are boomer shooters.
>>736550294Sometimes you do, but it takes 1 second to queue things and you don't need to do it frequently.>>736550342>ai makes all buildings and unitsYou can sort of set up something similar to that but not exactly the same. Zero-K has a communist economy, so all income from mexes are shared to everyone on the team equally, with people that built the economy getting paid back first. You can either set up a skirmish with an AI on your team, or you can play on Teams All Welcome and there will be plenty of people to take mexes for you depending on team size.
>>736546236>single player fps is pretty much dead we call them immsim now
>>736544090>multiplayer no longer works because hosting company sold off to AI slop companyShartgate is a gift that just keeps on giving
>>736543358Snlf in men of war assault squad 2 are the best
RTS died because now there are a variety of sub genres that achieve what they want better than RTS:>player wants feel like a master tactician in charge of an armyTotal War games>Player wants to MACRO as a war happensGrand strategy games>player wants to build a city and turtle to surviveSurvival Colony Sim games>player wants fast-paced micro, tight control, and outplaying opponents in real timeMOBA gamesRTS are a jack of all trades and a master of none. Too many things going on: base building, economy management, army building, defense building, micro-intensive unit babysitting, exploration, resource control, etc. Not to mention how silly high level RTS being for most people due to APM. The skill doesn't translate well in viewer's minds. Like how point and clicking really fast in an FPS translates into skillfully aiming a weapon in people's mind. In RTS pointing and clicking really fast translates into... navigating a UI really fast. For most viewers that's just stupid and disorientating to watch.
>>736543504>>736543575The entire game is relatively easy to pass but I always get stuck on the penultimate (i think) mission where you have to take control of the asteroids quickly or whatever
Gimme a base and army building rts with battles that are more like total war. I wanna see big fuckin regiments of dudes fighting, not a single guy on a horse whacking the shit out of a field with his stick.And also, gimme world in conflict 2. We've had enough division games, thanks massive. Let's get back to the GOOD shit.
>Ctrl+F DORF>1 resultFor shame
>>736550987Cossacs 1 (and maybe 2) for historical, Heroes of Annihilated Empires for fantasy>>736551092How about they release the fucking game first
>>736550814Also factory games for fans of optimizing the crap out of the base layout.
>>736550814autobattlers for people want to theory craft
After Yesterday's AoE2DE finals i am convinced now that the industry copied the wrong standard.
>>736549972i play sometimes and mine looks like this and it's tolerable
>>736542590Spoken like a true modern audience type dumbfuck
Zero-K pov.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td4Kg-lWh3I
>>736550413its all too video gamey. people who want to play video games don't want to play video games.
>>736552029look i like RTS games, i just don't want to play online or manage a base or build units or expand the map, okay? and where are the cute anime girls?
>>736552170anime RTS would revive the genre
>>736551732wdym
>>736542175>>736543049>>736543565>>736551852I fucking love Zero-K.Cloakbots are my favorite.
>>736552251It happened and it didn't.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWQZj6aHUig
>>736551518ngl mechabellum is pretty cool>>736552407thankchad reporting in
>>736549972>not know what each little icon means>not wanting to see the entire map at once so radar is uselessngmi commander
>>736545481The RTS genre started with a completely singleplayer game.
Died? But i've played dawn of war for 20 years and continue to do so so things are fine for me.
>>736552416the 'tube does not agree though
>>736552565secondaries don't even know touhou has an anime
>>736552519yeah the remaster is great
>>736552459Our slings vs tremors fight will be legendary.
>>736542239Spellforce 3 is literally Warcraft 4.
A heavy micromanagement focus is fine if the game has a very very simple economy and basebuilding aspect that is easy to let run on its own so you can focus on the battles.A heavy macromanagement focus is fine if either you use so many units that micromanagement loses some value or if unit AI is better than average and can be trusted to do something that isn't fucking stupid without you babysitting them.The games inbetween just kind of suck.
>>736552462i really liked the original C&C+RA1 remaster, wish TS would get the same
>>736552251This, but French Anime style.
all my handcannoneers died. if only they were buffed they wouldnt have died.
>>736545503He said released
>>736544072i love when these disclosures get defensive, you just KNOW that they have even worse stuff that they're hiding lmao
>>736542175It's crazy how RTS isn't more popular considering how many ads for mobile games I get that are RTS
>>736542175Still waiting for D.O.R.F.
>>736542175Just need a Pokémon classic RTS. Doesn't even need to have any innovation or crazy QoL/simplification/etc: just a semi-reskin of C&C (or whatever) with Pikachu's (and clones) lines for all tesla-related stuff and charizard's line for all flamethrower stuff would sell like fucking crazy and bring a ton of new blood in.Sadly GF are retarded and will never allow it.>Pokémon ConquestTurned-based tactics aren't RTS. Also only turbo-weebs aren't repelled by the Nobunaga setting.
>>736553947It isn't an RTS just because it has base building and attacking.
Is Tempest Rising worth it?
>>736553947>how many ads for mobile games I get that are RTSAren't all of those just cheap Clash of Clan clones? They are over-simplified RTS nearly on the same scale than Tower Defense or MOBA.>>736554273It's "we have C&C at home", but with an complete inability to decide if they want to play it seriously or over the top, so it's a bit lame comparatively.
>>736553947Mobile RTS is more of a simulation of an RTS than an actual RTS. You have absolutely zero agency in mobile RTS games as the entire campaign is a step by step tutorial of fingers telling you what to do while not letting you do anything else, with no option to skip or disable them.
>>736554364>complete inability to decide if they want to play it seriously or over the topAh, that's a problem. I thought it would be more like C&C, especially C&C 3, serious and all that
>>736554467Can't the same be said about all mobile games?
Just give us good single player campaigns, Jesus.
>>736554765This is true, which is why it's not surprising mobile ads for mobile RTS did not make RTS more popular.
>>736552251Nips can't into strategy, the most strategic game weebs can put up with is Rance, and RTSfags are literal fags who think women have no place in warfare. So I don't think it would happen, but I welcome devs who'd like to try.
Why do niggers who hate base building keep trying to play RTS games and then bitch and whine about RTS games having base building? Fuck off they invented MOBAs for you fags.
>>736555238I love basebuilding but I hate how most RTS approach basebuilding by turning it into an annoying time sucking chore. It fucking sucks.
>>736555238y halo thar relic entertainment
>>736550698you now remember how the game was first teased with #RTSReturns
>>736545136whate game?
>>736555238RTS as a genre is plagued by people of mediocre intellect fancying themselves as automatically much smarter than average simply for liking RTS.They then proceed to get angry at anything that challenge what their desperately average brain can actually handle - be it micro challenging their quick-thinking & coordination, or macro challenging their game knowledge & multitasking.
>>736555771or the apm maymay killed the genre.
What has been your favorite single player rts? I think I had the most fun with They are Billions.
>>736555954Deserved.
>>736556012Not really. its a case of giving the player freedom and control and a tiny subset of players deciding to take that freedom and restrict it to only one viable strategy.
>>736555771Truth. RTS is for 130+ IQ people where multitasking is natural for them.>>736555954Midwit.
>>736555771A game being shit at turning intent into action is a fault with the game.
>>736556607its hilarious someone got a term pushed into mainstream vocabulary that will only ever be used by the people it describes.
Some other thread had an Anon wish for an RTS with Majora's Mask time mechanics (or some other Zelda, can't remember) and the thread 404'ed before I could ask wtf he had in mind exactly.
>>736556817>Anyone with a functional brain and who doesn't give up after the first try can do it without problem>"Nah it's the game being shit because it didn't ready my brain to automagically apply my 1684 steps Keikaku after I pressed Enter and pushed back my glasses"
>>736556830I have 150 IQ. I enjoy RTS. You do not.
>>736555957Company of Heroes 1's campaigns were all fabulous, and I have a soft spot for Age of Mytholgy and Age of Empires 2's campaigns. The new AoE2 remastered campaigns are more hit-and-miss than the originals and sometimes the new devs lose the plot, but by and large they're fine.They're very repetitive and samey but every few years I need to play through Supreme Commander and Forged Alliance's campaigns too.
>>736556953A game being shit at turning intent into action is a fault with the game. You're not changing my mind.
>>736557067Online IQ test will give results exponentially higher than a real IQ test.Also memorizing the answers and taking them multiple times doesn't mean you have a higher IQ.
>>736556856Not sure what he meant, but there is an RTS called Achron whose gimmick is limited time manipulation. As you might expect, it's rather janky, but the concept is cool.
QS 10 mins no rush
>>736557215>using exponentially in non literal form>denying the idea that there are people in this thread smarter than them>one sentence long paragraphs>starting a sentence with also, implying they just thought of thatPeak midwittery. RTS isn't for you.
>>736557447>he doesn't understand how exponentially interacts with a curved result
>>736557447>using exponentially in non literal formSee, you just outed yourself as low IQ. It was completely literal. Someone who actually has an IQ of 150 would be able to get around 400 on an online IQ test. someone with an IQ of 90-100 would score about 150.
>>736554364>Aren't all of those just cheap Clash of Clan clones?There are a few better ones. Iron Marines is nice with a solid control scheme. Rusted Warfare is an okay port that's good enough for some turtling against AI. Mindustry controls aren't too bad, either. Some decent RTS-adjacent games also include Xenowerk Tactics, Kingdom Two Crowns, Firefight, or Bad North.
>>736557590>>736557721You don't have the data to prove it's exponential, mr. actually.
>>736558130There is one mobile CnC clone called Warfare Incorporated that's pretty decent, but it was made back when mobile games weren't mtx infested shitheaps by default and is currently delisted on stores.
>>736558305Cope.
>>736558598I will play RTS and have fun, something you will never comprehend.
>>736558305.01*.01=.0001Figure it out.
>>736558751>i will enjoy my repetitious actionsyes we know dear
>>736558362Yeah, it was originally for Palm devices, or something. A lot of abandoned games got shitcanned for not doing upgrades for newer Android versions. I still have it installed and think about beating it one day, but I kind of wasn't into it.I also remembered that Feral Interactive ported a bunch of strategy games to mobile, like Company of Heroes or Total War. The latter even received exclusive content updates.
>>736542979>Dawn of War 3 is 2017 lmao and I think it's more micro focused then base building.>Halo Wars 2 2017 again lmao. >War PartySome indie early access tier game>Iron Harvestmeh>>736545503He said released, retard.
>>736558775You can only describe something as exponential if it is compounding with itself or with something that compounds it or its group. You will forever be a midwit that can't enjoy RTS.>>736558868RTS is pure balls and testosterone. You will never comprehend what RTS truly is. You don't even know the fundementals or what makes an RTS an RTS. Go play something slower paced without abstract concepts going over your head, like tower defense.
>>736542840100% this. Gaming died in the mid 2010s when it went mainstream and had to dial everything down for the casual FOMO retards. Same thing happened to shooters. FPS games just play themselves now with>auto aim>magnetism>crouch slide ADS shoot>tiny corridor levels to help autoaim even more>meatgrinders with zero strategy
>>736559107>keeps proving he can't comprehend how exponential functions work>immediately performs the internet equivalent of a nigger grabbing his dick for emphasis
It hurts me so much this game died. Meanwhile Sanctuary: Shattered Sun will never get a release date.
>>736544748Pathfinder wotr crpg
>>736555957I liked Total Annihilation and TA Kingdoms. A ton of missions that you're free to beat using whatever units you like. The pathfinding sucks, tho, and it would be really nice if they ported the campaign to BAR or something.From newer games, also Five Nations. It too has a crapload of missions and units.
>>736542239Tempest Rising
>>736559270You would never describe it as exponential if you understood what an exponential function is. You are a massive retard that thinks anything big is exponential. Online IQ tests are inflated and retarded, but there is no reasonable explanation to describe their inflation as exponential. You are the retard that takes online IQ tests. Kill yourself midwit.
'minder that over 90% of RTS players don't EVER touch multiplayer, and less than 10% of multiplayer games are PvP. Don't let /v/ sweatcucks speak for the fanbase just because they're more tryhard at pointless apm spam due to literal autism. THEY HAVE NO SAY IN THIS. They are the smallest niche of an already niche genre.Multiplayer game design is anti-RTS. Developers purposefully avoid cool units, mechanics and campaigns which are the heart and soul of RTS for the sake of le balance. The delusional elitist comptards have been killing RTS for too long.You may SEETHE, you may COPE, but RTS is a SINGLE PLAYER ONLY genre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XehNK7UpZschttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKMrTgmivEk
>>736543169I can work and watch memes in the same time while fucking your mom being 110IQ midwit
>>736559629>he literally can't comprehend how exponents interact with curved resultslol. this shouldn't even need to be explained to you.
>>736557209The proof that you don't need AI for a good RTS
>>736559836You don't even know what an exponential function is if this is how you're approaching it.
>>736559714https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/334920/view/3875973926280115015Refuted.
>>736560032>he claims his IQ is 150>he's not smart enough to figure out standard deviations
>>736560032Internet IQ test results are compounded compared to real IQ tests. You can't map this, proving your actual IQ is around 80.
>>736544129>GodswornEarly Access isn't "released".
>>736542239Northgard
>>736560320What does a blog about unit balance have to do with player preferences to game modes
>>736559714You know what's funny? APM spam is also what the sweathards do in Total War (I know it's not a proper RTS but APM also ruins other strategy games). I've been playing TW since Medieval 1 and recently I picked up Warhammer 3. Was getting my butt kicked by the AI so I went to go look and see how the pros play - they just juke the fucking piss out of archers with their flying units so they miss all their shots.>"""STRATEGY"""LegendsofTotalWar does this notoriously. Competitive fags have taken all the fun out of strategy games with their bullshit """balance."""
>>736560327>>736560354By bringing up standard deviations you imply the inflation comes from having a different standard deviation. This has the insanely retarded implication that a proportional growth with a scale factor is exponential. That's a linear relationship, nigger.
>>736560704>Multiplayer game design is anti-RTS. Developers purposefully avoid cool units, mechanics and campaigns which are the heart and soul of RTS for the sake of le balance. The delusional elitist comptards have been killing RTS for too long.
>>736560904>he still doesn't get itits really sad when retards think they're smart
>>736560982Wrong. You described a linear relationship when trying to describe an exponential function. You should kill yourself now.
>>736561118You're wrong and you can't comprehend how, tard-kun. Please stop humiliating yourself.
>>736561196Wrong. You will always be a midwit.
>>736561359I can't be, i've never used the term.
>>736561423Phoneposting nigger kill yourself.
>>736559516slopcant believe i got suckered into buying that shit.>its a "puzzle game disguised as an rts" episode againso fucking tired of this shit
>>736561459a phone would've capitalized the i in i've, tard-kun
>>736545481nice self report you fucking subhuman
>>736561652Wrong. Your phone is retarded because it only capitalises after a period. You are a phoneposting retard and should kill yourself.
why are they so many schizos in the rts audience? Sometimes it feels like it must be 25%+. If you beat them people will literally stalk you across different accounts to message and harass you, it's absurd.
>>736561831Prevalence of autism and mental illness among the playerbase.
>>736561749>tard-kun can';t even spot phonepostingthis is just getting sad. someone added a 1 to your IQ result to make you feel better at some point, didn't they. you didn't notice it was in pencil.
>>736561901>phoneposter turns off autocorrect>immediately makes a typoKill yourself.
>>736542840Trvke, this is the reason why mobas killed RTSes. In a MOBA you can scale, you can play a late game character, you can rely on your teammates or slow play to shine later on, there's a reason to stretch out a gameIn an RTS none of that exist, you just get raped within 10 or so minutes. There is no scaling, you aren't rewarded for hanging on
>>736542239CataclysmoAgainst The Storm if you just like the macro part
>>736557154>You're not changing my mind.Good thing there isn't much to change anyway.
>>736562012i see you've just locked yourself into a repetition cycle. happens a lot with tards. your handlers don't want to deal with it so they let you "win" once you start. sad really.
>>736562185Why is really sad? NIGGER!
Trying to remember an RTS. All I can remember is it had tiles that almost looked like Civ Rev.
>>736542223Well, Pioneers of Pagonia is a strategy game, just not an RTS.
>>736562185Remember you have to prove you are not a retard after making the retarded claim that a linear relationship is exponential. Everyone in this thread is laughing at you.
>>736559714>'minder that over 90% of RTS players don't EVER touch multiplayerI'm in that 90%, must have played like 10 times online since Dune II, and 8 of those were SCII coop.But the "muh APM" retardation still piss me off.You use key shortcut and have vaguely enough map awareness to handle both base production & *one* troop moving around, and you will already be at least 60+ APM.If you lose it's *not* because pressing a button more than once a second is hard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdpjEpqUg68DIRTDIRTDIRT
>>736562185You can't even tell the difference between self proportionality and proportional relationships of a different value. KILL YOURSELF.
>>736562531Incorrect.
I want a sort of contemporary game that has a tech tree and covers a large scale persistent conflict where you have to build up and develop tech to achieve victory. So maybe something like HoI but with actual gameplay. I don't know if anything like that exists.On a separate note, do Warno or Broken Arrow have good singleplayer campaigns? If not, is there anything like them that has good SP? I'm alright with the AI being weak because I'm bad at games.
I just beat the AoE4 campaign. It was great. Too bad 2 of the 5 campaigns are horse archer chinks and arab muslims. I'd rather play as more Europeans and turtle in my castle. But at any rate, some anon said earlier that RTS games are all about the campaign and I couldn't agree more. I just don't feel like playing skirmish against the AI or online PvP against tryhards. Maybe that's why Homeworld, Starcraft, and SupCom have such amazing staying power. They have campaigns for days. You have that initial outnumbered phase but then you can keep building defenses and eventually mass produce armies. That formula is super comfy. I wish more games did this.
>>736559293>Note: The last update made by the developers was over 12 months agobig oof
>>736562896t. butter fingers
Someone sell me on one of these RTS games I haven't played yet>Tempest Rising>8/9 bit Army>Battlefleet gothic Armada 2 >Stronghold>Cataclismo>Diplomacy is not an optionI want a game with a campaign and turtling. It doesn't have to be tower defense but I like building huge armies.
>>736560771>APM spam is also what the sweathards do in Total WarHow?I played TW like twice, and troops take like fucking 10 seconds before *starting* to obey any order.It was so insufferably slow it actually made me give up on the series, and before that I used to be part of the "micro BAD" crowd.
>>736565319>apm spamis the same cope as>GR they're using math to plan things!
>>736565274Oh yeah I forgot >Iron Harvest>Terminator: Dark Fate – Defiance
>>736565274Stronghold is a game about managing a castle and its troops. It's all about establishing an economy, building up your troops and then coming out to beat the other guy. It is THE definition of turtling.
>>736563465> game that has a tech tree and covers a large scale persistent conflict where you have to build up and develop tech to achieve victory.Warzone? The tech tree is huge (bloated as fuck, to be honest) and span the entire campaign, with most missions being about raiding a group or another just so you could reverse-engineer a new shiny from their wreckage.
>>736542223wat
>>736542175Is base building a dead genre? I really hate Starcraft but I love C&C.
>>736565696No.
does starsector count as RTS?
>>736565274Tempest Rising is CnC3 without CnC. Take it as you will.Stronghold is a siege simulator, turtling is the main point in most missions but enemy mostly comes from offscreen so you only defend. You still need a lot of units for defense though. Strongly recommending this one either way.>>736565384Terminator: Dark Fate – Defiance I only played a few missions and it seemed to be more RTT, no base building, you run around with given squads of units, mission structure kinda reminded me of War3 Rexxar campaign, there are quests with branching paths, units have their own equipment and limited ammo. Looked pretty neat, will probably return to it eventually, can recommend to at least pirate to take a closer look.
>>736565319>How?Here's an example: 7:50https://youtu.be/4-m84mKifDg?si=P5jtrSiMpM9MEmcl&t=470>click>click click>click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click >"""strategy"""I couldn't find the one where he does the same shit with a dragon but no archer can ever hit you. This is what the pros consider as skill in a fucking TW game. This is why I quit Warhammer. It's fucking stupid.
>>736565741Closer to RTT.
>>736542239there is no need for new classical RTS games because they made so many of them back in the day that the perfect classical RTS's already exist now
>>736545481>but 99% of RTS players want to play against other humanscurrent RTS players, yes, but the bulk of the sales for all the classic RTS games were single player campaigns or map editor custom games
>>736565319>I played TW like twice, and troops take like fucking 10 seconds before *starting* to obey any order.I mean yeah it's suppose to be realistic. It's all about outmaneuvering your enemy.
>>736552519I remember looking in the store and seeing these box covers as a kid. The one that stood out to me the most was the Necron cover. I wanted to know what those little skelington niggas were all about.
Zero-K perfected the genre.
>>736567217that's what I'm sayin'!
>>736546340I fucking love reclaim.>lose map control and get forced into a retreating turtle position>enemy pushes in a little to far>majority of reclaim is within your area of control>shit out a new army with it to take back the map>when attacking be careful to only take land you can hold so you get all the reclaimIt is simultaneously both the best rubber banding and snowballing mechanic.
>>736550342I like supcom and its ilk because when you need to build buildings you can just spam lines of them
>>736567126Random factoid: when dark crusade released people on relic's forums (which are long gone sadly) moaned that it was BULLSHIT the game came on DVD only and that it was excluding people who only had cd drives.....in 2006.
>>736567475Legitimately the best mechanic in RTS on so many different levels. Punishes overcommitment against a tactically competent player, allows smart players to hide their actual resource income from the enemy which allows sneak attacks, allows pivoting from one commitment to another with way less lossiness than other games do.
>>736559714100% of flies love shit
>>736562473the higher your real IQ, the higher the disparity between real and online IQ test results, tard-kun.
ZK is good but I don't want the shitty graphics and shitty centralized servers that always have faggy mods
>>736568219>3x is exponential because its disparity with 2x grows with xYou are insanely retarded.
>>736568343>even with illustrations he still doesn't get itjesus how many times did you need to retake the online iq test to get 150?
>>736568552No you nigger. You are implying a growing disparity is unique with exponential functions. kx with different k values will have growing disparities with each other, nigger.
>>736568683The disparity growth is exponential though. The lowest possible result from an online test will be roughly identical to the lowest possible result from a real test. The disparity grows exponentially, eventually breaking the online iq test's results quite early.
>>736569005Moving goalpost strawman with something you made up in your head. You implied the differences come from a different standard deviation as seen in >>736560327 nigger.
>>736565559i'll check it out, thanks bro
>>736569227>gets sat down and shown pictures with a concise explanation of what he clearly didn't understand, but should've been able to glean automatically, if he were as smart as he thinks.>u muv goalpoastWe've progressed from simple retardation to motivated reasoning. You've based too much of your ego on your clearly false IQ test results and will engage in delusional ideation to protect your ego.
>>736559714>What is SupCom?
>>736543470that sounds very boring autobatller
BAR doesn't have commander upgrades, but does it have veterancy?Does Zero K have commander upgrades and veterancy?
>>736570915BAR has commander upgrades but they're a non-standard option during lobby creation. Yes and it even persists through revives as of last patch.
>>736570915Yeah zero-k has different commander frames that you can create custom upgrade trees for. Veterancy is a thing in zero-k but it's not as impactful as other rts games from what I've noticed.
>>736571063Ah, I was told wrong, then.Are the upgrades cool?Do you have to make an energy storage to use the overcharge in BAR or Zero K?
>>736543470the warhammer rts are exactly that.
>>736571281They evolve to shoot out units at some point like a carrier.
>>736546340y but its not busywork, just make a patrol order in the reclaim field
>>736546340I'm not sure anon would agree with you that reclaiming engies are classic resource harvesters.I do want to say that harvesters + a drop-off building is redundant and leads to people wondering how many harvesters to make and when to remake the building closer to the resource.I also don't think having more than 2 resources (that deplete) is optimal.
>>736573035Saving your extraction building at 10% is cool. Saving your resource gathering at 10% harvesters is not cool.
RTS died the moment every game focused on jewsports
>>736573035>I do want to say that harvesters + a drop-off building is redundant and leads to people wondering how many harvesters to make and when to remake the building closer to the resource.I never liked these systems.
>>736542175turtling against ais in starcraft is actually really chill
>>736569549You are arguing with a strawman after your original argument was proven to be retarded. You do not even know the difference between a linear and exponential function.
What was that RTS that involved time travel? Archeon or something? I had a friend who played it and described it to me and it sounded like a great idea that was a total computational and network clusterfuck to implement.
>>736573035>leads to people wondering how many harvesters to make and when to remake the building closer to the resource.oh no strategic choices? get that shit out of my rts games.
>>736571239Veterancy in Zero-K is just how much damaged value the unit did, with its own value in damage per veterancy rank. Only counts visible damage. It doesn't do any stat changes or anything.
>>736542840This is technically true. When a dev tries to make their RTS to be focused on competitive multiplayer first and foremost, it usually ends in failure. Most of the competitive RTS mega-hits were not designed that way, it happened organically. A big exception is StarCraft 2, because they still had the spare manpower to also make a great campaign (WoL, mechanically, story is shit of course). Most can't or won't do that, and this extends beyond just RTS. The DORF guy seems to have the right idea, MP will exist but it's just another game mode, not what the game is designed around.
>>736573404That's not really a strategic choice.
>>736573598warcraft was literally created because the pre-blizzard devs were obsessed with dune 2 and wanted to make a copy of it with multiplayer. the aoe devs admitted in an interview that most of their playtesting was done in multiplayer. campaigncels can cope all they want, but the actual facts show that multiplayer was a core part of the genre from the very beginning.
>>736573813>dune 2>multiplayer
>>736573805how many harvesters to make is literally the most strategic choice of all. the choice between 9pool and 12pool in starcraft or 18 villager feudal vs 24 villager feudal in aoe2 will affect the entire rest of the match.
>>736573980>openingshitCancer.
>>736573404It’s not about removing choices, it’s about removing low-value ones. Deciding “how many workers per patch” is a solved optimization problem. Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance replaces that with continuous economy decisions -- stalling, overbuild, efficiency, scaling. That’s a higher-level strategic space.
>>736574087Stop using AI you stupid faggot. God I hate you.
>>736574084>vibegaming>>736574087you don't just pull enough workers to saturate a mineral line out of you ass, you have to build them, and when you build them is a major strategic choice.
>>736573404>>736574351It's just something to math out, while building extractors and upgrades provide intuitive, hard-to-kill outposts that don't vastly reduce efficiency if a few units roll by. Extractor units and drop-off buildings aren't optimal. If you value strategy, you should value "less is more".
Alright, but what 2025 RTS has a great campaign thou'?
>>736574351>he thinks it's about vibes
>>736574401>hard-to-kill outposts that don't vastly reduce efficiency if a few units roll byso there's even less strategy because an overbooming player can't be as easily punished with aggression
>>736574351>vibegaming for shitters who don't understand build orders... I like it.
>>736575098I'm not that anon but mex upgrades are actually really good opportunities to punish greedy expansion. Mex upgrades are fkn expensive and take a long time so you can snipe them with mobile arty drops. Even after they're done upgrading they're stronger but if they're not fortified you can still take them pretty easily with an arty drop.Even nicer because you can slurp up the wreck left behind.I got into a ridiculous argument with a friend over whether its better to spend tac missiles on overkilling T2 and T3 mexes to destroy the wreck or to use them on other mexes.
>>736575102>don't understandNo>strongly dislike and want nothing to do withYes
>>736575098In AoE2, villager production is basically a solved rule -- you keep producing unless you have a very specific reason not to. That’s not deep strategy, that’s execution around known benchmarks.I don't want to make 150 villagers every game. Forced busywork isn't meaningful strategy and detracts from the amount of fun and immersion that meaningful strategy provides.
>>736575098You can rip out the throat of a player who's too greedy and steal his resources for yourself with forward reclaiming after you win a fight. Not dying instantly to any level of harassment is not the same as invulnerable.
>>736573389>ArcheonYeah I rmember that one. I thought it sounded really cool but I didn't like their implementation that much. I'd like an RTS where every time you issued an order, it would just immediately play out the entirety of the game state and you can place orders anywhere on the timeline.Winning becomes "solving" the match to find a literally undefeatable strategy given the starting conditions.It'd probably have to be a pretty abstract representation though so that you don't just have cascading order invalidations every time anyone did anything.
>>736575309you still have to decide between 1tc and 3tc and what villager count to go up on. there are also times when you will want to kill villagers late game so you have more population space for a bigger army. you clearly don't understand even the basics of strategy and think it's just arbitratily doing things.
>>736575098As that anon touches on, mexes can be up to 7-10 minutes of repay time (T3). SupCom also values income way more: bigger battles, more strategies across how many units and buildings are possible, and more types of units to build (land, sea, and air). It gives you enough to do without trying to meta extraction unit counts into the hundreds. Solved, repeatable optimization loops are less strategic than continuous, situational tradeoffs.
>>736563465Broken Arrow was supposed to have some single player missions, I remember playing one in the demo, not sure what's the state now, kind fell off my radar.Gates of hell has a dynamic campaign mode where you keep your units and equipment salvaged on the battlefiled, it's a tactical level game though.
>>736542840thisgenre ruined by Koreans Per Minute
>>736542239Northgard and Company of Heroes are both based with friends
>>736575624That goes without saying, he's just using ChatGPT.
>>736575624Congrats, you’ve mastered villager busywork -- now try making a decision that actually matters.
>>736563465SupCom 2 has the hardest skirmish AI of RTS games that I've played. I would recommend it to everyone here.
>>736575624I think what anon wants to say is that he dislikes Aoe's discrete strategy contrasted with supcom's gradients. Which I would agree with, if he was able to say so.Like I think a close analogy between aoe2 and supcom is fast castle into knights vs sera t2 kbot rush. The way I do sera t2 kbots is I push with my ACU and T1 arty to apply pressure and make space while taking some pretty greedy trades that leave my ACU at low HP, then I use the room to give up ground and draw him in with my low HP ACU while I get my T2 factory, my first two or three kbots get out of the factory and its usually checkmate; he's over committed and out of position to either fight or flee. Its actually more about the maneuvering than the kbots themselves.I'm not that good at Aoe2 I play it more for the aesthetics, but fast castle seemed more like a build order than a strategy in the same fashion, about getting certain units at a certain time at the expense of your economy. You can tell me I'm an idiot.
I liked Dark Colony.
>>736542175I play age of empires 3 and 2 daily with my friends, its dead only when you stop playing
>>736576175no he is just a retard that doesn't understand the difference between a strategy and a build order. neither fc knights nor t2 kbots is a strategy. a strategy is something like "this map has a lot of resources in the middle so I will use early aggression to secure them and ride the economic advantage it gives me into the late game." a build order that says to make x of unit y at time z is just plan that you know will give you the tools you want to execute your chosen strategy based on previous preparation.
>>736576750Build orders have extreme strategic implications.
>>736576164Rather watch Dreamybull videos for a whole day than play SupCom for more than 3 hours.
>>736542175What exactly is going on here?
>>736576750I don't think there's a meaningful difference in normal discussion. Saying "I want to make T2 bots" has an understood “to gain battlefield supremacy” or “to outnumber and outmaneuver the opponent”. With that, I'm not sure what your criticism of previous posts is.
>>736576750In that sense then, I don't think supcom has strategy at all.The implication would be that one of the players could choose NOT to use early aggression and secure those resources. Its imperative that both players do that in supcom (I'm imagining one of those maps in supcom with a bunch of wrecks in no man's land).It comes down to who manages to maneuver better to get more of the wreck, rather than whether you choose to exploit it in the first place.I'm interpreting your description as a sort of "will I or wont I"; opportunity cost, they're binary decisions. Supcom games tend not to look that different from each player's perspective because of that. Both are making early T1 spam, both are making fighters, both are making bombers to snipe mexes, both are upgrading their own mexes, both are sending T1 kbots to harass outlying engineers.
>>736575302>I actually *want* to do things wonkilyYep, it's vibegaming time.
>>736563465WARNO does have singleplayer campaigns, they're called army general and I think it's interesting but I rather play 10v10s. You're on a tactical map and can move battalions around, turn based, then you move to the battle maps and it's an RTT. You can also do them coop vs AI I think.
>>736577359No I want any potential build order to end 1 minute into the game and be queued up before the match starts so it isn't retarded clickshit.
>>736577338I've been trying to imagine what Aoe2 would look like if it was played like supcom because the distinction does fascinate me, though its hard to figure out exactly how to describe the distinction.Imagine everyone in aoe2 was always making every unit, every game. But the differences just came down to precisely how much they made of them and how they used them.Like rock paper scissors unit counters just don't exist. Both players have rock, and paper, and scissors. That's why I keep harping on about maneuvering in supcom.
>>736542175They don't make them anymoreThe competitive scene is mostly gone.So yes its kinda dead
>>736577071no, the build order you choose is informed by your strategy>>736577308obviously not every build order is going to have application to every strategy. 2port wraith will give you tools for econ harrassment, but it's not going to give you an army that can bust an expansion like 5rax. fast castle 3tc boom is going to drop you off at a completely different point than 2 stable bloodline scouts and even a 800 elo player can tell that the situation where you can use one is going to be different from where you can use the other.>>736577338>In that sense then, I don't think supcom has strategy at all.you said it not me
>>736577704>No I want any potential build order to end 1 minute into the game They pretty much all do unless scouting showed that you were doing exactly what your opponent predicted you would.>and be queued up before the match starts That's already the case since you choose a build order from the meager information you have before anything can be scouted.
>want to start getting more into RTS campaigns>beat WC1, start with WC2 and realize every mission i'm just turtling a bit until I get upgrades then push with deathballis there any way to play/any games to play where this doesn't happen? i know that's a bizarre thing to type out and I could just set arbitrary limits on myself, but yeah.
Age of empires 3 is better than 2
>>736577958Yes, stop turtling and go out and kill them.
>>736567217>>736567312Hi retarded Zero-K developerhow is the miserable number of retards plying your garbage?
>>736577981>lying this hard
>>736577837>>In that sense then, I don't think supcom has strategy at all.>you said it not meI find the discussion more interesting than "my strategy game requires a bigger brain than yours".I'm taking the word "strategy" as you've described it, applying it to supcom, and finding that the description doesn't really represent what gets done, I find that interesting.its all pros and cons at the end of the day, like something has frustrated me about starcraft is how the game is minutes of macro busy work and then a three second fight where someone fucks up baneling micro and then the game is over. I find that utterly insane. Who would possibly want to play something like this? Why is it that supcom not like this? These are the kinds of questions I find interesting. More so the latter question than the prior. Different strokes for different folks.If you frame strategy as a plan, to be executed to some end state, then supcom does not have that. Probably a large contributing factor is that unit upgrades don't exist in supcom, there's factory tech upgrades but they're far less prescriptive and due to the ability for engineers to make them go faster, its not really time gated, so you've just got less sunk cost element over all.
>>736577868No they're not queued up before the match starts.
>>736542239Stormgate
>>736574282You are blind. He used double dashes instead of an em dash to bait culture war retards like you.
>>736577338>>736577780>>736577837>Both are making early T1 spam, both are making fighters, both are making bombers to snipe mexes, both are upgrading their own mexes, both are sending T1 kbots to harass outlying engineers.None of those things are what people do every game. Travel time (usually benefiting defense), tradeoff time (making air vs. ground, etc.), and catch-up time (e.g., time to build T2 enough to catch up to T1 production) are all much greater in SupCom than in SC or AOE II. A lot of this is because it has far more buildings and units. The power and scale factors are completely different. "OK, I can't get in with bombers, but maybe I can fly this Ahwassa over their SAMs, and if I can't live long enough to bomb, maybe I can drop the wreck onto the target." "I can, as Seraphim, make a support commander, upgrade him, and teleport to their nuke defense to take it out while launching a nuke from my base. If I don't have enough energy while upgrading, my shields are going to go down when I power stall." "Instead of making a factory and a bunch of units, I can air transport my commander, after making a T2 or T3 upgrade, to point defense creep to their FOB, or spam T2 artillery installations from a distance." The amount of strategies you can do are not only more, but are more necessary. That's what your describing.
>>736577958> >>736576164.
>>736577242The turrets that shoot red lasers are newtons and can push units, friendly or otherwise. The thing landing on the ramp is a unit from the jumpbot factory getting pushed by the newtons on a ramp to land on the other side of the map.
>>736542175>>736542223Companies claiming RTS is dead are doing so, because they are frustrated they can not monetize it and milk it to death like they do it with other genres.
>>736578394I use it enough to recognize its output, but nice try, dipshit.
>>736578176See above. It's not like SC because there's much more to do than micro spam at X minute. More options is more strategy.
>>736578176I don't play supreme commander or bar, but from what I can tell the difference is in the economic system. in starcraft and age of empires it all comes down to resources. if you castle someone's gold or deny his 3rd gas you are taking away options they can use against you. there's also the temporal aspect where a lower econ player can actually afford a bigger army in specific timing windows.
>>736542223Fpbp, I feel overwhelmed by RTS games and can only play like one, the fact there is like a dozen games with an active online community is more than enough for me.
>>736578408>None of those things are what people do every gameBut they do. You can't just not build T1 spam; you must fight for map control. You can't just not at least put in a token effort to fighting for air control; you'll lose all your mexes to bombers. You can't just not snipe T1 mexes with bombers yourself; the rewards for these things outweigh the downsides of at least a probing attempt.For the rest of it I more or less agree. I don't think I agree with some of the minutae like trade off time and catch-up time, and that's probably because of the above. Probably the one place where this applies is T3 ASFs which are unique because it really is just a numbers game and you can only do so much with maneuvering when it comes to ASF tactics.>>736578943A lot of difference is derived from the econ system, but I think the lack of upgrades is also a massive factor to it. Probably the difference in economy you're talking about may be more actually map design. Mex distribution in supcom is a lot more diffuse than in starcraft or even aoe. Its much harder to truly box someone in.
>>736578408none of those things you gave as examples are strategies. they are just things you can do, possibly as part of a strategy.
>>736578326You should he ashamed for even mentioning this thingBtw Dust Front RTS looks like a decent game (that one day may come out), it's made by one insane russian, the only negatives (for some) lack of multiplayer and (for most) only one faction will have playable campaign at release.
>>736546236>it took a weird path, now you have fast fpsWhere? post one
>>736542264This. Rise of Nations has been out for over 20 years and is the peak of RTS.
>>736579401Rise of nations fucking blows. Units are too expensive, takes 30 minutes for anything to happen. Garbage design, only good for singleplayer where you can waste your time.
>>736579049Can you give an example of a hypothetical game in aoe2, explaining both players strategies, and the decision making processes involved?
>>736579046>You can't just not build T1 spam; you must fight for map control.I'm pretty successful at rushing T2 land.>You can't just not at least put in a token effort to fighting for air control; you'll lose all your mexes to bombers.I think first air (factory) is extremely strong, so much so that I would probably always do it, but you're losing out to land spam on a small map.>You can't just not snipe T1 mexes with bombers yourself; the rewards for these things outweigh the downsides of at least a probing attempt.It's extremely easy to guard against T1 bombers. Mobile AA is cheap and effective, so much so that I don't think only air is feasible (or at least "better"), but this probably also depends on map size.>Probably the one place where this applies is T3 ASFs which are unique because it really is just a numbers game and you can only do so much with maneuvering when it comes to ASF tactics.It absolutely isn't. You can circle strafe their ASFs and come out with a very large amount of fighters.https://youtu.be/bgdtF63mkvA?t=1991.In the second exhibition, Heaven ends up with 31/50 ASFs.
>>736579049How is point defense creep to take a FOB, or making an SACU to tele snipe their nuke defense and nuke them, not strategies?
I wanted to try Tempest Rising but it has kernel level DRM/anticheat from a third party and the EULA was sketchy
>>736579046It's very very specifically reclaim and lack of research. It's easier to pivot from strategy to strategy in anything TA than it is any other RTS because the only thing you can't get back in some form is time. That's why you see high level people in BAR 1v1 do things like start kbots for pawn/grunt wars then reclaim for vehicles to outmuscle the infantry once the economic engine is going, or start air on really big maps or maps with specific terrain for cons/gunship harass then reclaim it early before building your workhorse factory.
>>736579618My post was too long so I'm probably going off the deep end, to keep it really succinct I'm not speaking of doing a maximal amount of these various things, but doing them at all.
>>736579319titanfall and apex prolly the best modern examples, those games have crazy controller aimbot cause the game would be unplayable on console otherwise
>>736579930Different factions have different things they can do, and none of the things you listed are all-the-time strategies. Are we still on the same page?
>>736555735https://mattsimus.itch.io/steamlands-rusted-warfare-mod
>>736545334You literally described Crusader Kings series, anon.
>>736553564>No wonder thou wert victorious! I shalt abdicate.2 Anon resigned.
>>736580086I'm imagining a 1v1 between.. Say UEF and cybran.. And imagining how it goes.Its probably UEF building T1 tanks and T1 arty, and cybran building mantis and arty. The UEF will probably have more arty. They'll probably both make some ground based AA but usually you hold off so you don't give up the land war early on. Cybran will be using their mantis to out maneuver the t1 tanks. UEF will probably be more cautious because of that, but both will be raiding and staking ground.Both will build air factories, probably the cybran a tad later than the UEF since cybran really wants to capitalize on those mantis, they'll both tackle for air control, figuring out how much they're willing to invest in it, but neither will just not make fighters to compete for it. The one that balks will as you say, make more mobile AA.I'm going to assume for simplicity's sake its land only, lets say open palms and skip naval.After the first few fighters both will make some bombers, if one of the players gets absolutely demolished in air control they might hold off but they SHOULD both make at least one bomber and go for cheap engie kills. The payoff is immense.Then you start getting a transport from both players. Sometimes before the bombers actually. Both to get engies to far away mexes and aggressively to raid.Then you start looking at T2/gun and it does start to diverge at that point. But that should illustrate what I was talking about in my earlier post, which was all early game stuff.So its all very wishy washy, but at no point is either player going to go "I'm just not gonna make T1 fighters this game! I'm sorry haha! Im just not!", likewise for T1 tanks etc. A T2 rush should, in optimal play, be in addition to the above.
>>736580705Oh I forgot about the T1 bots again.That's the first thing you do actually. Similar to the T1 bombers vs outlying mexes. There's literally zero reason NOT to make a few t1 bots at the start and go hunting. Worse case scenario you achieve nothing, best case scenario you absolutely kneecap their economy.
>>736565274>>8/9 bit Armyshit
>Never gets any mentions
>>736580930It's just not very good.
>>736580930Because its shit.This game is how I knew not to pay attention when STALKER 2 was announced. Its so god damn bad.I never played the original cossacks but it looked sick, this though was awful. The way units tend to just blob into eachother with no collision until your "armies" are actually one unit with 200 units stacked on the same exact spot just phasing through eachother until it looks like one guy walking from enemy unit to enemy unit.. It was really bad.Also netcode was fucked. I couldn't finish a single match without desyncing.
>>736580039They're both slow as fuck
>>736580705Why would you not spam factories and rush with your maybe-upgraded commander on Open Palms? Their air fighters would be absolutely useless.Also, a bomber is something you make first to deny reclaim and expansion.
>>736579756a strategy is an overarching plan based on your understanding of the map, the matchup, your opponent, and the win conditions of the game. "deny my opponent's resources so he can't afford critical tech" is a strategy. "attack my opponent with a specific timing that he won't be prepared for if he is playing like I expect" is a strategy. "make strong units and kill my opponent's base with them" is braindead gorilla strategy. "build a factory in the middle of the map" is not a strategy, but it could be part of a strategy.>>736579571idk just watch the wololo finals from yesterday
>>736581607I'm not sure of your point. I think I've displayed an understanding of what a strategy is.
>>736581801no you continue to confuse "tactics" or "plays" with strategy.
>>736581607>>736581801Also, building a factory in the middle of the map to reduce travel time is absolutely a strategy.>>736581953Quote something.
AoE2DE finals possibly united all of /v/ into one single autistic moment.Even the mods joined in
>>736581163nah definitely not, just cause they're a tier below quake doesn't mean they're slow. quakelikes are the fastest, apex and titanfall are pretty fast, and then after that you have the slow as fuck category
>>736582020>Quote something.ok>building a factory in the middle of the map to reduce travel time is absolutely a strategy.no, a proxy building is not a strategy. it can be part of a strategy, like "kill my opponent with all in early aggression before he has a chance to leverage the advantage from a greedy opening," but building shit in the middle of the map is not by itself a strategy.
>>736582094How is APEX fast?
>>736582384The strategy is to reduce travel time and thus increase effective production.
>>736542223TRVKE
>>736545503that game fucking sucks
>>736582489Why?
>>736545503I don't watch viewbotting faggots.
>>736582420I don't know about apex but both titanfall games are very fast in pilot modetitans are obviously bulky and slow by design
>>736582643They should have made titans as mobile as players.
>>736580930It's shit, I'm sticking with AC + mods, maybe Cossacks 2 once a year too (never played it btw)
>>736580267thanks anon
>>736582420very fast strafe speed on the ground, and you can slide jump into tap strafing mixed with bhops for really quick movement. it's not fast all the time but it's fast enough that controller players need literal aimbot to be able to hit anything
>>736581607What about "attack my enemy with many specific timings that he wont be prepared for if ihe is playing like I expect, in ways tghat deny resources so that I can make strong(er) units and kill my oponent's base with them"Is that a strategy
>>736583175>you can slide jump into tap strafing mixed with bhops for really quick movementI thought they removed that.
>>736583301i think they removed it and added it back in like 3 times at this point, the apex devs are crackheads
>>736573361You not understanding the initial assertion until its laid out does not make the initial assertion a "strawman" or "moved goalposts."You have an IQ of 80, at best.
>>736583789Wrong you retard. You didn't know what an exponential function is. You looked it up after being called retarded. You are now trying to morph your argument about how online IQ tests have an exponential relationship with your real IQ, which is a retarded thing to say. Your one sentence long paragraphs look really retarded by the way.
>>736584060No. You.
>>736582094Why do casuals & zoomers want to latch onto quake so much?>apex and titanfall are pretty fastlmao
>>736584162I accept your concession.
>>736584365No. You.its been pretty clear you're simply a delusional retard for a long while. Just tired of engaging with you at all.
>>736584408Your concession has already been accepted.
COD: Advanced Warfare mogs APEX and Titanfall.
>>736584480No. (you). (you) didn't understand something and then cried about goalposts and strawmen when it was explained.
>>736584534https://youtu.be/YBd5z0E8no4.
>>736584534AW sucked other than the zombies.
>>736582457that's not a strategy
>>736584646>I must have the last wordI accept your concession.
>>736584790How?
>MOBAs>Tower Defense>Auto Battlers>Factory Games>Survival Craft>City Builders>Grand Strategy They make everything BUT classic RTS games these days. Probably too hard.
>>736584796Again. No. You.
>>736584790>>736584818PS: You can say "I am strategically placing this factory (to X)". It's a strategy.
>>736584937I accept your concession.
>>736584960I deny my defeat
Gookclick killed RTS.
>>736585164This isn't DotA it's League of Legends.
>>736584818a strategy is a plan to win the game. "reducing travel time" doesn't make you win the game. it can be part of a plan to win the game, like "I will build 2 barracks in the middle of the map which will cut the travel time by enough so I can have 8 marines and a bunker in my opponent's base before he can finish building a forge for cannons which will force him to resign." something as non-specific as "I'm going to make air units" is not a strategy because it's not an actionable plan to win the game.
>>736585285No, a strategy is an overarching plan to accomplish a goal.
The decline of RTS mirrors the decline of white male gamers.
>>736585310My plan is to invade this country with my army to win the war.
>>736585285If you do it one time it's a tactic. If you do it systematically and consistently then it's a strategy.
>>736585196actually its losing despite having higher apm due to having an inferior strategy.
>>736585352StarCraft and Age of Empires are super popular in Latin America.
>>736585364Are you invading with an army of Mongol horse archers or Roman legionaries?
>>736585392because you can memorize an action sequence and win 51.0% of the time.
>>736559202>FPS games just play themselves now with>>auto aim>>magnetismThe only platform where FPS games should ever be played on is PC using K&M. If you play FPS games on console or with a controller, that's a you problem anon.
>>736559714>and less than 10% of multiplayer games are PvPMMOs are a niche nowadays and there are very few co op games. THe vast majority of multiplayer games are PvP.Hell, the games that made multiplayer popular in the first place were PvP.
>>736585372Sorry we're playing Starcraft not Supreme Commander, that wins games.
>>736585164You lost and got raped.
>>736585491kek you have never played against a human player if you think that's the case.
>>736585285Just because something doesn't end the game immediately doesn't mean it's not a strategy. Reducing travel time to increase effective production to outnumber the opponent is a strategy.
>>736585759You can literally see people doing this on stream
>>736585310the goal is winning the game.>>736585367wrong>>736585762also wrong. you might as well say microing your units is a strategy or using hotkeys is a strategy.
>>736585875You are objectively wrong.
>>736585875>you might as well say microing your units is a strategy or using hotkeys is a strategy.False equivalence.
>>736585875Look at Roman forts. They were built with consistent guidelines, so that's a strategy.
>>736586057using hotkeys for unit production lets me build with less downtime which gives me an advantage over the course of the game. that's a strategy according to you.
Did you faggots play picrel? I have the Anthology edition that comes with all the expansions (which afaik only existed in Spain? Or at least I have never seen that edition in any other language) that my dad picked up at some sale for like 5 euro and played it for a decent while. It's been like 15 years since I last played it but I remember at least the King Arthur and Ghenghis Khan campaigns being kino.And also that the easy AI was braindead but the medium Ai was fucking impossible to play against kek, or at least that's how it was for my ~10 year old self. I remember that there were items and potions you could give your units to raise their stats and I would make pseudo-hero units on skirmish mode and make up stories and shit. Its a bit sad that I lost that way of enjoying games as I grew up.
>>736586171NTA but that's a problem with traditional RTS, they rely on constant inputs from the player, so technically the games are Real Tactics Games, more so than Strategy.
>>73658058911
>>736586308>traditional RTS rely on constant inputs from the playerthis is the apm meta that killed the genre.
>>736586308>>736586524that has nothing to do with whether something is strategy or not
>>736586591apm is not strategy, its muscle memory and mechanics cheese.
>>736586171You can legitimately say "my strategy is to use hotkeys to X".
I just want more single player rts content and aoe is the only one doing it. Coop too but that is asking for too much.
>>736585858Anon, idk about Starcraft, but on AoE microing troops is half the game. An army you let fight on its own vs one you micro are radically different in terms of performance and winning a fight or two early on can win you the whole match . You can't just memorize a buildguide and outspam the enemy (unless their economy is fucking awful, but having a decent economy is the easiest part of the game, so that's usually not the case). Plus you have to keep contesting for map control so you don't get choked out of resources, keep track of what army composition your opponent might be building towards, not leave yourself open for a castle/tc drop, raiding, etc. The game is 50% a macro "conversation" between the two players and 50% tryharding the fuck out during big combats almost like playing a MOBA. It is impossible to do well against any competent player if you play passively and just try to execute build orders (which is why a lot of SP people get filtered hard when they first jump into multiplayer, as campaign missions make you develop "wrong habits" in that regard as the campaign AI never pushes you much).
>>736586626APM requirements are a result of the game being real time and other mechanics like damage, movement speed, presence or lack of turn speed etc.It's not related to whether a game can be labelled a strategy game or tactics game.
>>736586752Supposing that you can, do you think this meaningfully conveys information?
>>736586626Anon if you want pure strategy games, then play turn based stuff. Real time games will always promote fast actions because of them being real time. Even something like Victoria 2 has a massive mechanics factor where good players will just outmanouver you and destroy you if you are slow.
>>736586930GSG is a bad example because there are a near infinite amount of ways to optimize what you do in terms of speed which isn't necessarily true of RTS.
>>736586817>>736586930its funny that the apm meta is so old people think its intrinsic.
>>736587017I mean during multiplayer combat where being fast at moving/splitting armies is per example very important for encirclements which during the early and early-mid game are the way half of wars end in multiplayer.
>>736587019This is like saying action games have an APM meta because you have to keep pressing the attack button and dodging.
Bruh im midway spellforce 2 the game is boring and dogshitConvince me to finish it
>>736587229>Convince me to finish itYou won't. In fact, you couldn't.
>>736587019Ofcourse it is intrinsic kek. If you and me dueled with swords in real life, you could try to apply as much swordfighting theory as you want, but you would still likely lose if you fail to react on time to what I do. Being able to take more actions that the opponent will always be a crushing advantage unless the difference in decisionmaking is huge. That's why games (both boardgames and videogames) that focus exclusively on the decisionmaking aspect like chess, go, etc are turn based as it forces equal numbers of actions.
>>736587229Don't finish it.
>>736587314To be fair you can play a game like CoH where you can play it properly with like 20 APM.
>>736587314>Being able to take more actions that the opponent will always be a crushing advantageWrong.
>>736587229are the characters hot?
>>736543358It's called Assault Squad 2, idiot retard. What kind of mongoloid are you that you got fooled by the shittiest game in the "franchise" (GoH)
>>736587314>>736587169>>736556435
>>736587314Noone claims swordfighting isn't about reaction speed. People do claim that about Starcraft even though it's bullshit.
>>736587293>you couldn't.I could all you have to do is A click>>736587315ok im giving up>>736587364no
>>736587337I mean, you can play any game properly at any apm as long as the opponent is playing at around the same apm kek. But yeah, there are some ways to mitigate the impact of the disparity, but an ApM disparity will always give an advantage to the faster player to an extent (assuming equal decisionmaking quality).
>>736587413Guess I won this debate since I said you won't.
>>736587452You said i couldnt and i could i just dont feel like doing so. The game is braindead easy
>>736586905IIRC, young me found them to be interchangeable but with different inflections of reference. I think I might go back to that.
>>736543519HoI4 is a terrible example of a game that does't promote micromanaging. Microing on that game is so strong that people don't even bother drawing battleplans on multiplayer because they are useless against a player that micros. You can only ignore micro against the AI (but the HOI4 ai is so god damn awful that you can just make a good defensive unit comp and let the AI commit suicide against your border). It is the most micro-heavy grand strategy game there is. Really the only Paradox grand strategy game where there was basically zero unit micro was Victoria 3 on release because there weren't any units to begin with kek. Even on EU4 there is a very big difference between microing for terrain, staggeiring stacks into battle and things like that and not doing it.
>>736587451All else being equal. But a game doesn't have to be faggot tier shit where only the literal worst decisions will outweigh having a reactions lead.
Somebody post a good OP, and I'll make another thread.
>>736587830There are barely any games where bad decisions don't get punished hard enough for APM to be able to save your ass alone. The thing is that, because of skill based matchmaking, the person you face will always have more or less a level of decisionmaking that's similar to yours, especially as you get higher on the ladder where people start being very consistent and don't make stupid mistakes anymore. That's why it feels like the person who had a larger coffee that morning ends up winning half the time, as getting consistent at mechanics is usually harder than getting consistent a decisions.
>>736588023>skill based matchmakinglol. lmao.
>>736588023This is not true at all.
>APM, base building, or micro.>Ever being a problem to immersion and strategy.Play a good RTS.
>>736588385I will not because of you.
>>736578178Yes they are.You want to execute them right as the loading screen finished, which mean you need to make your decision *before* the match actually start.
>>736585164You will not have the last word. You lost and got raped.
>>736590507never ever
>>736590189No retard, I LITERALLY mean queued. I do not mean 'having one in mind before the match starts'. I do not mean 'starting to execute one instantly'. I mean, literally, the match is paused at the start before you spawn in and you are allowed to queue everything.I know I want this because I play games where this is an actual thing and it is a million times better than the retarded clickshit that I'm expected to put up with.
>>736590557It's one guy making it in besieged. ;_;
>load up starcraft II>custom>melee>big game hunters =infinite population=>add a.i.>1v1awwww yeeeeeaaaaaah
