What's the ideal amount of classes/jobs/vocations etc. in an rpg game?Should they all be available from the start or should there be advanced classes you can switch to/earn later on in the game?What are some of your favorite/least favorite ones?Which ones do you feel are always missing?Which ones are done poorly and how would you like them to be done instead?Any other thoughts on the topic?Post em!
tax evader should be a job in every job game
>>736592365How would it work?
>>736592374on or off the books?
>>736592417
>>736592417The only thing I can think of is like the merchant archetype from metaphor refantazio.Or the merchant class in ragnarok online...But they're both more about just making money instead of evading paying it.Though the one from metaphor can literally use the money as an attack.
>>736592267>What's the ideal amount of classes/jobs/vocations etc. in an rpg game?Hundreds. There is no single game with enough of them>Should they all be available from the start or should there be advanced classes you can switch to/earn later on in the game?Advanced classes are kino. Make a decent variety available at the start but keep all the best ones locked or even hidden until later>What are some of your favorite/least favorite ones?Favorites are dual-wielding ones and any hybrid magic swordsman type of classesLeast favorite ones are alchemist or artificer classes in games that don't support them as item creation oriented classes>Which ones do you feel are always missing?Time mages>Which ones are done poorly and how would you like them to be done instead?Monks are often done too poorly because rogues take over what should be the monks specialty. By that I mean rogues are fast attacking combo crit oriented classes which is exactly what monks should be. Meanwhile stealth or robbery features are an afterthought for many rogues>Any other thoughts on the topic?I liked the classes of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. Would be nice if any games build upon that system without the limitations of a GBA
an ideal amount is probably at minimum 1-2 classes per character attribute in the systemmore specific amounts depend highly on the other mechanics featured in the game and usually add to that totalif an attribute isn't enough on its own to fuel at least 1-2 class designs there's a good chance its not impactful enough to bother having in the game at all and could probably just be relegated to being a set misc skills of some sortif your game doesn't have character attributes you're probably barely making an rpg at all, not because rpg=le number go up but because having those statistical differences between characters and builds facilitates the actual role playing aspect that makes the genre appealing and worth playing through multiple times for different experiencesthere's usually little reason to gate off classes unless its for the purpose of unlocking particularly powerful and useful abilities that would detract from the experience if the player could just grab it as a matter of course and modern game design rarely if ever involves mechanics or world design that would necessitate such a thing or make it feel worthwhile for a (nonretarded) player
>>736592650I also like the dual-wielding ones.Always liked to play with 2 daggers in lineage 2 and stuff.>time magesYeah the ones in fft are cool but their magic wasn't that exciting, I think they basically had like the haste/slow ability which usually would not be considered time magic but just basic magic in most other games.So I think anything more would be too OP.>MonksYes, I have a pet peeve with monks relying on using weapons.Every game I feel like they force you to use a mace or a staff and make the monk a glorified priest/cleric when they should be the fast fist fighter imo.
>start game>pick thief class>guards immediately chase and arrest you
>>736592729Yes, that's a balancing problem I always thought of.I love the fancy advanced classes like in neverwinter nights there's the blade dancer and black knight etc. that require at least 3 other classes prior to unlocking them.But then they barely feel all that unique from the rest and are underutilized in their uniqueness aside from just a flashy name.So I think having a smaller amount that are really well thought out and developed and distinct is probably better.
>>736592267>ideal amountZero. If there are classes, as many as possible with lots of redundancy/overlap between the set of "general" skills they have, then slip in a unique quirk/traits for each of them. Then you add multi-classing to diversify your skillset or further double down and enhance certain general skills, while having 2-3 sets of unique traits.One thing that is gravely missing in virtually all class systems is actual "professions." It's all combat classes or professions that are reduced to only their combat abilities, meanwhile you always see shit like a Blacksmith get turned into a half-assed footnote crafting skill.
>>736592267>What's the ideal amount of classes/jobs/vocations etc. in an rpg game?Less than 10 probably, no need to bloat.>Should they all be available from the start or should there be advanced classes you can switch to/earn later on in the game?Some available from the start and some are hidden/locked behind some requirement, but not like a quest or anything.Just a certain amount of stats/skills/feats.>What are some of your favorite/least favorite ones?Favorite is beast tamer, least favorite is probably basic fighter.>Which ones do you feel are always missing?Also beast tamer.>Which ones are done poorly and how would you like them to be done instead?Still beast tamer, I only really see them in MMOs or in tactics ogre but the mechanics are never fleshed out so you're basically just controlling a crappy summon, and at that point why not just use a necromancer and have more fun.
>>736592267you should be assigned a class based on how you play>OP plays gamewell you can see where this is going
>>736593049I don't really like that.King's Field 1 kinda did something like that but it was fake, it basically just moved you up the class ladder based on your level/exp, so it was a linear progression.But because the class names were pretty different one would think it changed based on how you played and not just in a straight line.
>>736592845This image but branching out each tier. Balancing is a spiritual concern not a physical one.Resources are produced by classes in game.Currency is persistent, there is only a certain number of coins in circulation at any given time.
>>736592946thats a running problem with dnd and its spiritual offspringthe d20 system taken as is is in many ways incredibly shallow; by design to facilitate the players and the dm working together to weave a more interesting narrative than what just the rolling of dice would tell, but shallow nonetheless and in a way that's difficult to make work in a video game context where it isn't 2+ humans talking to each other with the flexibility that bringsthe might and magic games are what I typically think of as (mostly) well done class variety and advancementadvancement unlocks the ability to train in higher levels of a character's skills which give access to some powerful stat bonuses for martials and much more powerful spells for castershaving access to high level magic and going through the questlines needed to unlock them are some of the main driving forces behind a player's natural exploration without physically railroading them the way modern games do
>>7365922674 classic classes that have two expert branches with two extra master branches. No need to reinvent the wheel.
>>736593518>4warrior, mage, rogue, priest?fighter, wizard, archer, thief?
>>736593549>archer, thief, rogueThose should all be the same class.A rogue is a thief, an archer, and an assassin.
>>736593620Why would rogues excel at archery?
>>736593620WRONGarcher should be a fighter sub-joba rogue CAN have a bow as a side arm but wouldn't be as strong as a real archer, but a thief can'tbecause archery should be strength not dexthief shouldn't be a combat job at all, they sneak, steal, disarm traps and use a bow only to distract or signal something, they shouldn't have any real fighting ability
>>736593665Why not?
>>736593549This way sort of thing.>>736593620The way it should go if we use this model is that:>You start as a thief.>Become a ranger (archer) or an assassin (melee)>ranger and assassin have their specialty unlocks.They are two different styles of play for two different environments 5e only dude. Ranger specializes in wilderness combats and quests whereas an Assassin is better at urban and dungeon environments.
Rogue>daggers (melee and throwing)>shortswords>stealth>stealingHunter>bow>spear>traps>animal companion
>>736593847Only tourists call Thief a Rogue. Rogue referred to a Thief that broke the Guild's oath.
>>736593695>because archery should be strength not dexThis is such a tiresome debate. Because I half agree. The best archer should be a fighting type that specializes in archery. And uses a strong bow, which requires a lot of strength. But you don't shoot better by having more strength. You can't put more power into the same bow by drawing harder. If it's a 120 lbs bow, you won't shoot better by putting 150 lbs in it. How well you hit should be governed by your ranged skill and hand-eye coordination, which is often governed by dexterity or its equivalent. So, he would require high strength, higher dexterity.What you propose would mean you have the same big burly muscly guy in heavy armor using a heavy two-handed axe also being the best archer. Which just kills variety, and it's also a half-arsed, weirdly biased appeal to reality.The rogue should indeed use less powerful bows, as most of his damage comes from sneak attacks and applying status effects or using traps.
>>736593797That's too MMO-like.And that many splits for each archetype will get bloated.>start as thiefI think rogue should be the starting dex class, and then specialize as ranger/assassin/thief since those are more specific while rogue is more broad and all-encompassing.
>>736593881A tourist of what? I'm talking in the abstract here, not tied to any specific game
>>736593847>hunterHunters should have pets like in ragnarok, like birds and wolves, and set traps.They are distinct from rangers who are focused on archery skills only.
>>736592845Please explain to me the (a)Sura -> Inquisitior promotion
>>736593847>hunter>spearthat's full retard
>>736593928>I Think rogue..Fuck off with nu-fag terminology: >>736593881Check that one prior posting fanfiction opinions. Its either a thief, thug or a bandit; each is acceptable over a Rogue.
>>736593981literally the GOAT of hunting weapons
>>736593925That's not what I'm saying at all.I'm saying archer should be a SUB class of fighter, as in a branching path.A fighter who specializes into a warrior and goes full strength.A fighter who specializes into an archer splits str and dex.A rogue should never have enough strength to wield the strongest bows so while he can be more precise he should never be a better archer, for a rogue a bow is just a sub weapon, for an archer it's a main.Because like you said otherwise if a rogue was the best archer then than would kill variety.
>>736593974inquisitor is just a fancier monk/surathe names are irrelevant, they still fight hand to hand/martial arts but i guess because they also have holy/healing spells they chose to name it inquisitor because... associationg with the church
>>736593974most of them are just dumbass korean names/translations like what the fuck is a biolo and the gunslinger one is obviously a Rebel but they kept Rebellion anywaySometimes the western servers actually change it, with the alchemist upgrade was biochemist instead of creator
>>736594014>thiefnot a combat class>thugthat's just a rogue with more strength>banditthat's just a warrior with more dex
>>736592365Im 24 years old and i never paid my income tax
>>736594086>biolobiologist?they use chemical weapons
>>736594040A fighter is not a ranged class focuser dumbfuck that's the issue here. Its a melee fighter either dexterous combatant or a heavy fucker but in either case they are the man-at-arms of any army and a basic class every civilian becomes if they don't have any other specialty (crime, spellcasting, devotion to gods etc.) Always will be the fucking case. You get XP by killing things or if you get XP by looting treasure, avoiding traps and fights well you are a thief. Simple as.
>>736594141Why can't fighter have a ranged branch?
>>736594024i mean that might be so but spears are too unga bungathey should be for like barbarians and shitor something more tribal
>>736594164They can they can specialize into a polearm fighter (with end point being berserker or some other fucker with an axe to grind) or board and shield (knight), later on they might evolve into a Champion or Dark Knight; They are already are specialists by nature and their specialty is close quarters combat first and foremost.
>>736592267>Knight: Cover, Provoke, Shield Bash, High Investment Cost, etc.>Thief: Steal, Hide, Backstab, Dual Wield, etc.>Wizard: Elemental Spells, Debuffing Spells, Focus Ability, etc.>Cleric: Curative Spells, Buffing Spells, etc.>Monk: Chi Abilities, Exponential Fists Damage Growth, Low Investment Cost, etc.>Ranger: Specialty Arrows, Pets, Mix of Melee and Ranged, etc.>Bard: Lullably, Battle Hymn, Low MP cost per turn Abilities, etc.>Alchemist: Item Mix, Transmute Enemies to Items, Refine Items, etc.>Merchant: Coin Toss, Bribe, Extra Carry Capacity, Bartering Discount, etc.I feel each one has a unique identity and I can think of a use case for each within a party. All available to pick from the start and stick with them FF1 style.
>>736594014Thief>daggers>darts and other throwable objects>stealth>lockpicking and trap disarmamentThug >daggers>clubs>robbery (steal item or gold on hit)>intimdationBandit>sword>axe>crossbow>can wield any basic physical weapon but with worse performance than specialists get
>>736594216>spears are too unga bungaUwotm8?
>>736592267magic is inherently unbalanced>i'm a fighter i can uhhh suplex you>i'm a mage i cast planetary destruction black hole armageddon light of stars dimensional slice lavapocalypse heat death of the universeyeah right
>>736594290?
>>736594305The strength and speed of martial classes should grow proportional to the useful of magic for casters>i'm a mage i cast planetary destruction black hole armageddon light of stars dimensional slice lavapocalypse heat death of the universe>i'm a fighter i can dash 100m in under a second i can slice through solid steel i can unleash 20 attacks in the time you utter a single word of your chant
>>736594259>knightAlways hated this shit, knight is a title not a fucking class.Any warrior can put on knight armor and use sword and shield.
>>736594305Magic is unbalanced unless martial classes get Martial Arts to counter Magical Arts.
>>736594350hmm I see your point
>>736594401what if a mage is like a continent away and decides to just nuke your country off the mapthen what
I think artificer is by far my least favorite class.Kill all of them, they're insufferable.
>>736594496Better luck next time
>>736592267No amount is right, depends on many variables. Better few classes with many optuobsYesRedundant and useless classes (think pathfinder) Not being redundant/uselessYesNo
>>736593695>because archery should be strength not dexFuck this, draw a bow for once, a child can do itAlso, where dis this this idea that thieves, or rogues or whatever, are too weak to do things? They aren't excelling at raw strenght but they have to be fit. I would agree "archer" should be a sub class of fighter because of the nature of its behavoir. An archer might be prepared for warfare and not necessarily sneak around.In the original version of D&D if you wanted to be an archer you had to be a fighter.
>>736594407I know a lot people prefer the generic term fighter but Knight is just to give it more identity. Its like why its Bard instead of Performer or Alchemist instead of Crafter, it better evokes an image of the class.
>>736592487Did group sex propaganda cartoons stop being a thing or are there new ones?
>>736592267>Which ones do you feel are always missing?DRAGOONGIVE ME MORE DRAGOONS
>>736592650I liwkey expect ffta/2 as bundle in 3 years time.
>>736594537exactly
>>736594578Thief was the "weak fighter" that could "sneak around and open locks" in the original D&D version of it because it appeared that people generally used dexterity checks as fighters with high dex to open locks if they were weak and it started from a homebrew where the dude's home group was like "we are playing like this because a guy asked if he could be a thief since he rolled a really low strength fighter." and it all went from there. Thief abilities are also magical, not just regular mundane actions. Scaling walls? He's doing it magically, picking locks? More like waving them open. That type of shit.
>>736592845Novice, super novice, merchant (w/ axes!! ;]])Man. This. Is. The. VestSelection evaar
>>736594578I don't think rogues should be unfit.I just think thieves shouldn't be primary combatants, since by nature they should try to avoid combat by sneaking.Why sneak and steal and disarm traps if they're also just excellent fighters?It needs to have some balancing for their utility.
>>736594607Eh, fair enough I guess.I just don't like knight in particular.Especially if it's an advanced class like you become a knight to learn something, that's just dumb.
>>736594631I have no idea what that means.
>>736594710nta but I agree for the most part, but a rogue should be a little bit scrappy because sometimes a job goes wrong or you get caught with your hands in the wrong pockets and need to be able to not die instantly. a rogue daggering a dragon is probably a bit too much though.
>>736593797This is literally how EQ2 started, they got rid of the system within a year to copy wpw
>>736592267>What's the ideal amount of classes/jobs/vocations etc. in an rpg game?depends on the game really but i don't like when there's too much>Should they all be available from the start or should there be advanced classes you can switch to/earn later on in the game?also depends, i like both ways depending on type of game>Which ones do you feel are always missing?ninjai love weeby shit in general, want to see more ninjas, kunoichis, oboros, samurais, taoists etc. eastern/oriental classes
>>736594902>Games copy other games until there's no soul left.Fuck.
Should games differentiate between combat classes, job classes and monster classes?
>>736594986If it's single player, no.If it's MMO then maybe differentiate between combat and job classes yeah.Dunno what you mean by monster classes.
>>736594986>Combat/Monster class.>Job/"Flavor"/Background Class.That's all.
>>736595021>Dunno what you mean by monster classes.If something like a vampire is playable should its class be vampire with specialist skills or should it have access to normal classes?
>>736595109Uhh for me I'd say vampirism/lycanthropy should just be its own thing independent of your class.
>>736595150Its usually called a "splat template" in RPG terminology from tabletop games, you just toss it onto an existing framework, hence the splat.
>>736592267I really just want more unique/off-beat or eccentric classes in games, even if they're not too different functionally althought that would also be good.Just a little tired of the classic stuff.I'd take a game that has something like "sporemancer" or "swamp elder" or something, just wacky shit.
Fuck class-based weapons, or weapon-based classes. If you want to emphasize certain archetypes, then give mechanical incentives and not hardcode the universe to prevent a wizard from picking up a sword. For instance, add a mana bonus or quicker casting for spells on staves and wans, if you want spellcasters to use them. But also allow shit like wizards buffing their combat potential and then pulling out a two-handed axe. Why? Because it's fun.
>>736595361i mean dark souls does this by just making your stats dictate what you can and can't use so the class is irrelevantand everyone gives it shit about it lolso people hate it
>>736595406The starting class is just a quick-start kit and difficulty selection in Souls Likes.
>>736595406>and everyone gives it shit about it lolThey don't.
>>736595542yeah every time people bring up classes in souls games people shit on it because they're irrelevant and don't determine anything other than your starting kit
>>736594607The game is called Dungeons and Dragons. Half of gametime should be exporing. Thieves were given some magical stuff because a locksmith sounds boring. But the magic from the thief comes from occultism, not telekinesis or dumb shit. Magic itself was never reserved to wizards, since, and specially at high levels, everyone had magical devices to use, those were part of the lore. A thief wouldn't even know how to real magic books, but they would know about the tale of a spirit living inside a magical key that would open every lock. Or they would seek for the enchanted dagger that granted invisibility.
>>736595570>They gave you freedom to choose your starting kit and level up route.>Suddenly they throw a meltie about it.>NO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU NEED TO TELL ME HOW TO PLAY AN RPG OR ELSE I AM NOT HAVING FUN!!!You really can't please these "people."
>>736595614I kinda miss that aspect of it, I feel like they moved away from it.
>>736595614Its part of the Vancian system: You only had to be smart enough to formulate a spell per day to cast one. No serious formal training was required and it was very game-like system where you had an "equipped spell" ready to go at will once you did the required maneuver or verbalization. This was prior gaming was a thing. If anything this dude was the OG who invented most of the shit /v/ is arguing about alongside with cyberpunk writers and Robert E Howard.
>>736594986Monster classes is fine. Dragon, undead, demon, beast, humanYou know, the usual
>>736595570Yeah, they say that classes are irrelevant.Not that being able to choose from a variety of weapons is bad.
>>736592267>What's the ideal amount of classes/jobs/vocations etc. in an rpg game?1:1 accurate representation of all required jobs for that society to exist. i.e. construction (and magic construction) workers, carpenters, bricklayers, blacksmiths (magic blacksmiths) ect
>>736595751what's a carpenter gonna do against a dragon on the last floor of a dungeon?
>>736595361This is why I love Poe (both 1 and 2). Classes are simply sets of passive (and sometimes active) abilities that you’re free to use however you like with any weapon you choose. I particularly like this because you can play a monk with a bow which is probably my favourite fantasy character archetype.
>>736595782Nothing. All players would obviously be from previous jobs and be going on to become 'adventurers' which just means they picked up a weapon and decided to rape and pillage the countryside. But mechanically they would obviously know how to repair and build things, like traps, simple encampments, ect whatever you make it up.
>>736595835...How would that work for the gameplay?You start the game and do carpentry???And then start fighting after?
>>736595751This is dumb and treatable like flavor-text, if we were going through it this way it would be to minimize useless and redundant classes that can be merged into a higher category:> Assassin> Outlaw> Farmer> Hunter> Laborer> Artisan> Craftsman> Gambler> Merchant> Oracle> Priest> Wizard> Warrior> NobleBasically.
>>736592267big fan of the bravely default job system with the unlockable passives and dual-jobbingnever had more fun with a job system than in that game
>>736595875Holy fuck you're dumb as rocks. Its a background retard.
>>736595885You've just made up rubbish that means nothing>NobleIsn't a job
>>736595825I'm playing PoE1 right now and genuinely like what it does with its weapons. Just wish it had one more weapon group with a deflection bonus (why only hatchets?).Three types of gunpowder weapons is based.The game probably also has my favorite bow in any video game. Love you, Stormcaller.
>>736595958They are estate managers and man the armies as generals. You must be an Indian who got fucked by royalty or something. In a Feudal society they were important and were the statesmen of their time. Nothing got done without nobility or access to nobility.
>>736596050>Noble>Then lists jobs which didn't always require you to be a NobleAs I said you're a fucking moron.
>>736596076>WAAGHH I AM A DIRTY COMMIE SCREECHING.Back to lefty/pol/
>>736596050>Confusing cultural position with jobs
>>736596003I meant Path of Exile, not Pillars of Eternity
>>736596087>Gets proven wrong>Starts name calling to save faceYou are not intelligent enough for this topic consider joining a CoD thread or something.
>>736596087>>736596050Nobles were sometimes land owners and generals but not all land owners and generals were nobles you should read a history book sometime jeet.
>>736595732I think you're confusing thieves with rangers (which was categorized as a fighter class in first editions), which have the ability to use magic. Thieves can't cast spells. They only learn to read magical scrolls at higher levels, and even they they are not proficient at it.
>>736596113>>736596096>>736596127>Gets their discord wankers to come at me with false information because they got upset about Nobility being mentioned.You are the ones that should rope and die off scum. A fighter becomes a Lord (nobility) once they are maximum level in OD&D. Noble is a class of NPCs as a bestiary note in most 3.5e older games that are not filled with woke. You subhumans can go back to whence you came.
>>736596106Lmao, I was wondering what a bow would add to a Pillars monk. But I almost equipped my Zahua with a bow anyway, for choke point situations. So shit made sense in my head.Mea culpa.
>>736596185>Is retarded>Acts retarded>Called a retard>'n-no you!'Uh huh
>>736596185>Moving goalposts>That spellingGo back jeet you're not welcome here.
>>736596185Using a shit progression system to try and defend yourself is hilarious work, maybe consider just suicide next time though
>>736596234>Proven wrong.>Can only say no-u in return...Fuck off, the gallows-a-waiting for your shit kind. USAID was chopped off like your dick same with WOKE and DEI. Sorry you are irrelevant with your screeching about how there shouldn't be a NOBLE CLASS in a FANTASY GAME when almost every single fantasy setting has NOBILITY in them and they fill an administrative role in the society they are in. Too bad your people got raped by them. Get good.
>>736596248Nice try calling others Jeets when you are the one literally crying like a Jeet about nobility in D&D. I bet you wank off to your AI girlfriend programmed by Jeets later.
>>736592267>What's the ideal amount of classes/jobs/vocations etcMany, many, many. Even if they played mostly the same save for a thematic gimmick. Build autism is an extra game for your game and every fantasy or character concept should be expressable through some collection of picks.>Should they all be available from the start or should there be advanced classes to learn laterAdd some advanced classes. Being surprised by secrets is always fun.>What are some of your favorite/least favorite ones?Favorites are duelists, swordsmen, or other "agile fighter" types of characters. Dodging and parrying is fun, and fashionable cloaks evoke heroism better than clunky-looking armor.Least favorite is probably merchant and alchemist type characters who are dependent on item use. I hate using items in rpgs, why make a class around them?! Lol>Which ones do you feel are always missing?The aforementioned duelist class. It's always knights or rogues with no in-between. Sometimes there's a "spellblade" type character or a combat assassin who's a lightly-armored warrior, in a sense... that can be close enough.>Which ones are done poorly?It's been said a million times by other anons in this thread I'm sure, but monks and martial artists who are dependent on the gear treadmill like every other class! What's the point?>Post em!Herald Caller from Pathfinder WotR, a cleric who focuses on summoning a bunch of angels to fight for them.Magical Chemist from Monster Girl Quest! Paradox, who uses SP like a warrior instead of Mana but still deals magical damage. They can also fight with a scalpel to regen SP faster if they spec into Doctor a little.Not exactly a class but the Alchemy skill tree from Enchanted Cave 2. Every monster drops random ingredients so you're never short, and you can craft them into buff potions or permanent gear enchants. Some upgrades on the tree massively increase potion duration, so you can walk around with over a dozen nigh-permanent buffs running
>>736596197I really don’t like how most monks in CRPGs are closer to brawlers. The only exception I can think of is Pathfinder where they don’t give a damn about the weapon used, they even have their own unique weapon types like nunchucks, and even a subclass for bows.
>>736596359Monks are Buddhist Monks from a Shaolin temple basically not priests; the priests are Clerics basically and based on Exorcists, Solomon Kane and Inquisitors type of shit.
Monks should have some quirks, like not bein able to use any items for protection and requiring time meditating (charging your ki) and the longer you spend out of combat higher the damage you can do
monks should not use weaponsonly hands
>>736596407That's the thing, if Buddhist monks did take up arms, they used weapons such as bows and other tools that could be found in the possession of an ordinary peasant.
>>736596543i don't want reality in my gamewhen i play as a monk i want to run up to a guy, take a stance and punch through his body with a sonic wave blast while going ATATATATATATATATATATA
>>736596543Shaolin Monk inspired classes should be afforded weird exotic weapons like staffs, hook blades. glaives and spiked flail-staffs if any to keep the flavor and prevent them becoming OP; however they also have cultivation hinted at even if not directly stated they are cultivators in these games because they do get stronger and power up their martial techniques through level ups.
>>736596348>Herald Caller from Pathfinder WotR, a cleric who focuses on summoning a bunch of angels to fight for themhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjwIn any case, agree with the duelist/swordsmen class. Fuck any game that defines "lightly armored fighting guy" purely as a rogue with a sneak attack. Parry builds are some of the funnest characters, or dodge tanks surrounded by foes that just can't touch them. Nothing better than starting the enemy turn and have them all dead at the end of your turn.Getting sidetracked: fuck games that force you to use daggers if you pick some variety of bow-class. Let me use a sword, for the real ranger drip. My character in Dragon's Dogma looks so stylish holding one-handed sword (no shield) plus a bow on his back. Yet, I have to play the assassin class for that.Also, love me lightly armored fighters using big two-handed weapons that rely on speed and agility on top of their strength. But are not barbarians with all the barbarian baggage. Just offensive orientated, somewhat glass cannon fighters. Sometimes, something like samurai might fall into this group.
>>736596693>Yet, I have to play the assassin class for that.Well, assassin is the best class in dogma.So why's that a problem.
>>736596607I’m fine with that, as long as there’s an option to play more like a monk who hones his weapon skills rather than a mindless brute.>>736596632>weird exotic weapons like staffs, hook blades. glaives and spiked flail-staffsAll of these are literally either modified tools or other makeshift weapons. Because monks are poor as fuck
>>736596754>All of these are literally either modified tools or other makeshift weaponsthey're designated as exotic weapons in dnd
>>736592267It really depends. The more open a game is, the more classes it should have. For flexibility.It really depends on the game.
>>736596754Exactly that's the whole idea even with Ninjutsu weapons too. They aren't allowed to carry weapons of war as civilians where they might get arrested/questioned for them but appearing as a farmer with your farm tools on you? You get a pass. (This is the main origin of most martial arts weapons that look funny.)
>>736596730Because I want the sword while playing the ranger, my actual favored class.Not going to ask to get dragons maw or other powerful sword skills. The skill selection can be as slim as the rangers selection of dagger skills. It just looks cooler.
>>736596818I suppose it makes sense since you need specific skills to use it effectively as a weapon
>>736592267Favourite class is mage, I also liked the assassin style in oblivion.Class that is often missing: Pure mage with physical weapon.Classes should be available from the start with further specialisation later.Mage needs to be interesting with lots of good and interesting spells. Controller oriented games make mages boring because they don't have enough buttons for anything that isn't generic.
I hate that Rangers are basically morphed into the WoW Hunter class and have a pet companion because of DrizztI thought the Ranger class was meant to be modelled after Aragon, in that they were well travelled, and not a user of ranged weapons
Any game that doesn't let me be a warlock is gay and not worth playing. I don't wanna be no stinky mage, fuck off.
Monks should beNeutral good or true neutral6/10 fighter5/10 thief skills6/10 cleric skills2/10 wizard skillsNo weapons (unlocks bow at half max lvl)No armor (only robes that can be enchanted at max lvl)Can use few healing spells, some other buffs and hald max lvl unlocks a fireball or somethingHigh charismaProficient at reading and languagesSpecial mechanic where the most you spend out of combat, you do more damage and take less
>>736596973I’ve never really understood D&D Rangers. It certainly makes sense for role-playing, but otherwise it’s just a inferior version of the Fighter or any other martial class>>736597042>No weaponsNoThat's gayMonk =/= brawler
>>736597095monk fist onlyanything else is gay
>>736596973Yes, the ranger is a fighter. Like a park ranger, it' proficient with swords, bows and lore. Proficient at physical combat and survival/exploration skills.What I don't totally get is why they can do magic as well.
>>736597127Monks should have bonuses or a subclass for hand-to-hand combat but this should not be their main focus. Martial arts are not limited to unarmed combat, and I am quite sure that even modern D&D allows them to use certain weapons.
>>736597095D&D rangers have an ongoing identity crisis and weirdly weak abilities, which are still carried as a cargo cult.Modern rangers are not necessarily forced to specialize in archery (or any ranged class) or dual-wielding. Or having a pet, you need a subclass for that. They still have minor spellcasting for some dumb reason. A fighter specializing into their weapon class will outclass them, but rangers are supposed to come with other useful skills, like survival, sneaking, tracking. The problem is, these skills rarely translate well into video games, and even in TTRPGs, gamemasters will often not focus on traveling too much, making these skills almost redundant. Then there are abilities like favored terrain and favored enemies. If a campaign doesn't heavily feature said terrain or enemies, then the ranger specializes in nothing useful.
>>736597095Tabletop D&D wasn't all about combat, anon. Soft skills were much more appreciated. But also, Rangers were able to use bows. Sometimes they can be the only ones able to hit an enemy.
>>736597320Most, if not all, martial classes can use a bow. And I said right from the start that he has a place in role-playing
I like when battlemages get their own unique spells instead of just being a dude with a sword in one hand and a fireball on the other and being mediocre at both
>>736597427Being the class that uses bows is part of the roleplaying, as you describe. Fighters, paladins, whatever, they could use bows, but no one imagined a fighter specializing in them, even though the rules allowed for it. If you asked a DM at the time which class was good for bows, they would recommend you picked a ranger instead. It's just more fitting.
>>736597654That sounds dumb. Fighter is a fighter, not a warrior, precisely because he is not bound by such constraints.
>>736596971Samefag here: I ment that pure mage WITHOUT physical weapon is often missing.Also I liked the assassin with illusion specialisation in oblivion.
>game has a Rogue class>but the stealth mechanics and the typical rogue shenanigans are badly implemented>the Rogue just ends up playing like a worse fighter
>>736597095because table top is actually, or at least should be, utilizing skills and feats in a meaningful way while in PC RPGs aside from speech you mostly get two, three skill checks and that's it
>>736592267I prefer systems like TES Oblivion and Dark Souls where you put together classes yourself instead of choosing one from a list
>>736597485>spellblades>mediocre at both>literally one of the strongest classes everbruh
>>736598035It depends on the game you're playingNot everyone in this thread is assuming D&D as their default
>>736597739What constraints? Fighters have weapon specialization. Imagine a group of 4 people, one picked a fighter/barbarian as a melee class, and you're picking another fighter that specializes in bows instead of a ranger that can add more to the party or an assassin. Ranger is the standard bow class for roleplaying reasons. This doesn't mean it's the only one that can use bow. This doesn't mean it can't use other weapons. It's just convenient for both practical and narrative purposes.
>>736594305>suplex does more damage
>>736596264>Calls the original RPG that started it all "shitty."They didn't know better and you showcase your nu-faggotry like a trans bitch that jumped off a bridge recently or shot up a school; History is history and it stays as such; just like biological genders sir; you shan't never be a ma'am.
