.
Dies to removal.
>7 drop 4/4>playing magic after trannies took over and turned it into planeswalker and creature token troonfest
>>736664158I miss old magic, planeswalkers were a mistake.
>Hans simply pointed at his Platinum Angel
platinum tits and hips
basedgoyimlennials ruined magic by introducing crossoversshit was unforgivable
>>736664295>Magic turns into the fortnite of card games>this is somehow millennials' fault
heh, nothing personal kid.
>>736664295normiecock tastes too good sorry nerds
>>736665158>Lorcana's "songs" are just mtg sorceries, down to alternate costsEvery new TCG is just bootleg mtg or yugioh
>>736665330Lorcana borrowed a few things from Magic for the first set, since you need obvious things like board wipes. But Lorcana not having dedicated resource cards makes it much more interesting than other games.
>>736665158Is there a card that stops another player from singing?
>>736664052Phyrexians raped this. Now she's stuck in the Phantom zone where she can't be saved and will get raped forever. Thanks Teferi
>>736664295I'd rather have had M:tG die than see that shit happen or the woke shit ever.>T. Millennial. yes. I hate some of the fuckers in my generation more than you zoomer fuckers.
>>736665441Damn if only they had recording devices
>>736664295Making EDH their sole focus ruined the game.
>>736665426There's a few, Pete being the most played one of them.
>>736664052I lost the game.
>>736665476ThisPeople just don’t fucking get this in their skull
>>736665478>Reffies meta
>>736664295The head designer dedicated an entire podcast talking about how crossovers were fine because no one was complaining about Arabian Nights either.
>>736665565People don't get that it's supposed to be a competitive hobby that you used to use to meet new friends and win prizes.The people who only play EDH are only playing it with the same 3 other people every week and using their agreed-upon custom banned list so nobody gets their fees-fees hurt. Most of them are afraid of getting their shit pushed in at FNM
>>736664295They really frog in boiling watered the community too. Everyone that was doom saying about the walking dead secret lair was proven right like they were fucking prophets speaking to heathens.
>>736666167EDH isn't competitive, or at least it wasn't supposed to be and shouldn't be.
>>736666276It's more like a custom-designed board game you and your friends can play. I hate that WotC decided to make it the only thing they care about and let big events like GP's die
>>736666576Completely agree. EDH is a fun side diversion that let's you play busted cards and do silly things, but Wizards forsaking everything else for the sake of it was a mistake.
>>736665837>Arabian NightsJesus, it's like someone directing a fantasy game pulling out some line like:>Camel mounts were fine so obviously the audience is okay with a Honda CivicsNothing is more frustrating than when these suits intentionally misunderstand feedback from their audience.
>>736665565There are so many faggots who have only ever played EDH. Not draft, not constructed, not even kitchen table 40 or 60 card decks that you make for fun using whatever you pull out of a binder. Purely EDHslop, pre-cons or netdecked, 40 staple cards and 30 tutors, genuinely braindead shit.I cannot fathom how so many people have gotten into the "format" without actually playing the game. It's the perfect example of the death of a hobby image. They want to feel cool and play Doctor Who and TMNT and Spiderman and all this gay shit.
>>736667063EDH is fun.
>>736666242it was also the hat sets, getting people accustomed to things that clearly aren't Magic before just taking the mask off entirely
>>736667063ironically no one actually wants to play TMNT or Spider-Man
>>736667063Yeah for real. I joined a friend and his pod for a couple of games despite hating EDH but just a humour my friend, during one of the games I shared I don’t really play EDH often and one of the guys blurted out “Oh you play Magic but don’t play EDH? What the hell?”. Fucking EDH players
>>736667507TMNT is kind of cool, though I still don't want it in Magic. But it is much better than spooderman which was horrible by every metric.
>>736667425>retards fishing for mulligans before the game even starts because sol ring in your opening hand is necessary as it's in 99% of decks>one faggot doing gay u/g turbo ramp and draw 30 cards with a valuesharting commander that wins the game if he ever untaps>another player churning through 10 tutors to set up the one turn kill combo, throws a bitch fit any time someone blows up his mana rocks>group hug player who doesn't know how to read the table and is going to waste everyone's time and draw the game out an additional 20 minutes>the douchebag who says "i'm bringing a fair 3" to the table with his creature deck except its actually voltron infinite combat stepsbasically described every table in EDH for the past decade
>>736665330Apparently the main way Lorcana established itself was by courting Standard refugees, so it makes sense.
>>736664052HAAAAAANS
>>736667679There's a number of pretty big Magic players that moved on to Lorcana so I guess it worked.
>>736665837he says, after decades of talking about how Arabian Nights is such a "never ever" revisit that he literally named "The Rabiah Scale" after it, purely for the reasons that it's just the Arabian Nights and not internal IP.
>>736667425It's fun, but it shouldn't be the only way to play the game. A lot of us want 2,000 player events with constructed formats rather than 4-player group hugs
>>736666698Mark Rosewater pretty much always misrepresents an issue so he can have the perfect argument against it. "people say they want us to stop designing for commander, but if we did that then we wouldn't be able to make precons which are very popoular", for example.Conveniently omitting the fact that people say this about standard legal sets where they put in stupidly strong cards in that are made with commander in mind and end up warping other formats.
>>736665330I wish more TCG were manaless Yugioh bootlegs
>>736667962depends on when you think Magic turned gay and lame
>>736664158Platinum Angel was printed in 2003
>>736667981This used to boil my blood. Glad I quit
Commander isn't even fun. It was fun when I played it a decade ago, when I was still new to the TCG hobby and actually had an IRL playgroup. Now it's just fucking bullshit, even before complaining about Universes Beyond. My biggest problem with Commander is differing player expectations: some people play to be a spike and win with the exact same combo every game, some people just want a beer&pretzels social game and the actual gameplay is secondary, some people just play for "fun", where fun is nebulously defined. Basically when the game is for everyone, is becomes for no one.
>>736667809His other famous scale, the Storm Scale, has 1 list of mechanics that are sorted by how likely it is for a mechanic to return in a Standard set with Storm is the namesake because it's by far the least likely. Affinity was at number two on this list, and both mechanics are printed in the last two sets.
>>736667896I would but Legacy is the only format I like (okay Amulet Titan is cool in modern) and Legacy died
>>736666167FNM is EDH now. I haven't seen a standard event fire any stores near me in years
>>736665476>EDHExcuse me? its Commander!
>>736668072>Storm will never be printed into standard again>prints it into Standard twice within one yearBRAVO MARK
>>736667981Vivi isn't made for commander they'd genuinely have picked a more popular character
I have not played Commander ever since the bracket system was introduced. Two questions:>Did the bracket system make things better, or worse?>In a random pick-up game, how would you react if a stranger said "I have this old deck, I don't know what bracket it's in".
>>736667809>coins the first scale, The Storm Scale, about how unlikely a mechanic is to ever be printed again>years later keeps printing new cards which "Aren't Storm" but actually are, completely dogshit unplayable cards except they make storm better (Baral, Wish)>dredge is also another 10 on the storm scale, nobody wants dredge to ever be brought back, oops here's prized amalgam, ox of agonas, creeping chill, guess dredge is back on the menuMaRo is such an enormous faggot and I hope he gets hit by a bus
>>736668178>15 bajillion legendary creaturesthe entire set was made for commander
>>736665476EDH was made by the community, for the community. It wasn't until WotC tried to monetize it with MTG Commander that the format would begin to harm set quality. This was first seen with Innistrad, the block that killed MtG.
>>736664679it's obviously appealing to millenials>TWD>Jurassic Park>LotR>Fallout>MLPLiterally all millenialcore
>>736668185functionally it hasn't really changed beyond people saying "this deck has X game changers in it"I would not care
>>736668185Kinda helped based on random internet formus. I have a dedicated play group so I'm not sure how it works in person.I'd ask the stranger to describe what the deck actually does and how fast it goes.
>>736668069It has become even worse - almost everyone simply treats Commander / EDH like a board game, just played with MtG cards. For anyone who is even vaguely interested in the strategy / deckbuilding / gameplay of Magic it is the complete antithesis to all of that.
>>736668178"They" wouldn't have, because the shots were called by one guy, and before it became a controversy Gavin admitted he intentionally pushed the power because it's his favourite character from the franchise AND in his preferred Commander colour combination.
>>736668139>Storm and affinity will never be printed again!*prints it in Commander*>n-no I meant in Standard sets!*prints it in Standard*>n-no I meant as a recurring thing*prints it two sets later*
>>736668185The bracket system did almost nothing except for maybe make it easier for people to shark because the brackets are not well defined. It's pretty easy to make what can be described as a bracket 3 deck that is really a 4.
>please Frederick we are on our 18th sub-game can we please complete our original game and go home
>>736668210Yeah but Vivi himself wasn't intended to be a commander all star
>>736668323>>736668274yes it was
>>736668185Brackets are only known to people who frequent fansites to start with, so the entire system is flawed as the vast majority of their playerbase doesn't even know what a bracket is. Rule zero discussions do not happen in the wild, you simply sit down with others and play, and then everyone starts bitching. Awful, awful format all around.
>>736668097>walk into local game store on a lark a few months back>they have posters up for magic>edh is main attraction, fnm and prelease are there but you can tell it's not what they want>store employee comes up to me>pink hair tranny with she/they badge on his chestnoped the fuck out of there and never went back
>>736668274I really wish they had kept it a modern set. The set overall was too weak to affect Legacy and I really wanted to play them in my preferred format.Also damn Gavin fucked standard
>>736665330There's also bootleg Pokemon! Riftbound has been fun too but they don't have any fucking product to buy. The 30 dollar starter kit is still being scalped for 90+
>>736668178I hope you're not serious anon, Vivi is absurdly popular. That lil nigga is the only thing gen Z knows about 9 in general, he's getting his own animated series, has his own picture book, etc. That's not even looking at the part where the designer of it LITERALLY tells everyone he made it for Commander and pushed its power to make it more exciting for commander even though he knows it will likely break other formats.
>>736668316The turn targets are a good limiting factor. No one is consistently hitting a turn 4 or less gold fish consistently by accident
>>736668317Sovl
>>736668357How do you not talk to people before you start playing? Like genuinely. I've never played with people without talking first outside of tournaments
I don't like card games but a lot of the Phyrexian art was really fucking sick.
>>736668178Gavin had a podcast specifically saying that they buffed Vivi last second because they were scared of him being too weak and no one playing him. Gavin is the head of the Commander committee and led the design on all the commander specific sets
>>736668439Yeah, but the FF7, 10 or 14 cast are more known to anyone who knows FF
>>736668317"no"*taps 6 and puts this on the stack*
>>736664052Well, you still lost the game
>>736668518No, people talk beforehand but it isn't the "intended rule zero" discussion that WotC assumes happens each and every time. The entire concept of rule zero and brackets, etc are just symptoms of trying to reign-in a format that has no reigns to begin with - it will never fundamentally help solve any issues.
>>736668565That doesn't make Vivi unknown or unpopular.
Consider the following
>>736668323>Yeah but Vivi himself wasn't intended to be a commander all starHow can you keep saying this?For years wizards has been deliberately pushing grossly overpowered cards, cards which even the most simpleminded players can look at and within 15 seconds say "yeah this shit is going to break the game", then wizards sheepishly comes out a month later with the banlist and says "we didn't have the time to playtest this, our bad!"How many times are you going to fall for their lies? They banned splinter twin in modern and the very next standard set they print CopyCat, which is exactly the same? They make Uro and Oko which dominate every format for years? Oops here's Companions surely this won't need a complete rules overhaul the likes the game has never seen before. Questing Beast which has eighteen lines of text on it and is the shining example of Mythic Midrange built for timmies to feel good about?It's not an accident. They've been printing overpowered cards since the dawn of time more and more since Hasbro's other holdings are all failing. It's pure extortion on the level of gacha games.
>>736668565And guess what, all 3 of those got their dedicated commander deck. They just put Vivi in the Standard set because they also wanted EDHbabs to buy their regular set.
>>736664052
The big story of the Honolulu Pro Tour wasn’t Kazuya Mitamura’s $40,000 victory in the finals. The big story happened in the first round, where a young boy known only as Hans did something that is causing many to call him a hero.Hans’s game was looking unwinnable. He had a negative life total and was kept alive only by his Platinum Angel. His opponent had just cast a Molder Slug, threatening to remove the Angel — Hans’s only artifact — at the beginning of his next turn.But when it got to that next turn, Hans would say a word that would put the whole series of events in motion. A word that would send ripples throughout Magic history. A word that would cement Hans’s legendary status.Hans stared at his opponent and said, “No.”His opponent was taken aback. “Judge!” said the opponent. “He’s refusing to follow my Molder Slug’s triggered ability.”“Refusing?”“Refusing.”“Is this true, Hans?”Hans nodded.The judge said, “I have to issue you a game loss, Hans.”Hans pointed to his Platinum Angel. “I can’t lose the game,” he said. And with that, he proceeded to his draw step, undaunted by the judge’s ruling. Then he skimmed through his deck for marked cards and put those into his hand as well.“You’re violating multiple game rules,” said the judge, “in addition to ignoring my ruling, and I am issuing a game loss to you.”Hans, his finger still stuck to the Platinum Angel, like a modern day Little Dutch Boy with his finger plugging the leak in the dike, said, “You can issue all the game losses you want, but with my Platinum Angel in play, they have no effect.” Hans proceded to the attack phase and swung for 4 with his Angel. He then looked at his opponent’s face-down morphs, referred to outside notes, and substituted cards from his sideboard.The judge stood before him, flummoxed. Without saying a word, Hans merely looked at the judge while pointing to the Platinum Angel.
>>736668095I built Sneak and Show in 2019, but only played in 4 legacy events. Luckily, one of them was a GP. My deck was like 80% fake, but nobody caught me.I guess if you live in a large city back then, it was probably easier to find legacy locals, but in my hometown, it was just modern and standard. I liked Modern before MH ruined it.
EDH is the superior way to play, and you fucking know it.>standard is gay bullshit where your paid for cards expire because lol gotta sell more product>modern/vintage/etc are gay bullshit where half the cards are banned>draft and prerelease makes you pay $40 for packs, only to get 25 cents worth of cards that are useless chaff in the endMeanwhile EDH lets you play with friends, you can use anything, and everyone has fun.
>Magic>LorcanaGay>Yugioh Brown>DigimonGood shit
>>736668720why the hell did they keyword <type> gains lifelink
>>736668720Now THIS is card design
>>736668827because it's a joke card, and "Knightlifelink" is a pune, or play on words.
>>736668185Most people will stay say their deck is about a 7 on the powerscale. The fact that WotC makes commander players police each other shows you deeply unserious that shit is.
>>736668827It's not lifelink as a result, and it can stack with it.
>>736668565How do other things also being popular change the fact that the designer of the card filmed himelf and saying to people "we pushed Vivi as a commander card because he's one of the most popular character in the franchise"?
>>736668791Pro-tip: Kitchen table with friends can be any format. Cube, draft, legacy...whatever. You don't have to play EDH slop.
>>736668827Because it's silver border, and once they cut "problematic" jokes all that's left are references and basic wordplay.
>>736668894I like brawl, and EDH is basically 4 player brawl. Brawl will continue to be the best format on Arena as well.
>>736668874What even is a "7"? Is a precon a 7? Are precons that are just dumb creatures a 6, while precon infinite combos are an 8? Does it matter because every game boils down to rhystic study vs smothering tithe vs infinite combo?
>>736668720I count 3 puns on one card. Impressive
>>736668791EDH has been heavily tainted throughout the years with cards printed explicitly for it. If you don't have a reliable group that isn't full of knobheads, it can get pretty degenerate. That said, it's probably still the best besides Cube.
>>736668985>What even is a "7"?no one really knows
>>736668791You say that as if EDH doesn't soft rotate.
>>736668894You don't have friends.
>>736668827Syr Cadian= circadian rhythm Knight Owl = night owlKnjghtlifelink = night life
>>736668185It had more impact for wizards optics than actual play. In practice there's only three brackets, where causals consider 2 an insult of their deckbuilding ability and established players want to treat "gamechangers" as a strict banlist so they can angle-shoot noobstomper decks out of 4, so everyone just congeals to 3 as they did with 7 beforehand and the "pre-game discussion" is instead replaced by a post-game bitching fest where people come to terms that eternal formats revolve around degenerate shit.
>>736669089Jokes on you - what I don't have is a kitchen table.
>>736668791You speak as if commander players have never been fucked by a ban list.
>>736668856oh it's an unset, missed that. seen to much stupid shit from wizards lately.
>>736669303God this makes me erect. Fuck card investors.
EDH can die in a fire that shit ruined my favorite game (amongst a million other issues but I feel like at its core everything that's happened in the last 7 or 8 years circles back to it overtaking MTG) >>736669303this doesn't look like a player getting fucked by a banlist, but a subhuman """"""investor"""""
>>736669303Players benefit when investors suffer. Most kitchen tables do not give a fuck about what's banned, but they still have to deal with card prices.
>>736669303>sol ring not banned despite being the single most format defining card in the worst way>rhystic study not banned because it's "the culture of commander' or some gay reasoning>also cyclonic rift because fuck you>here's smothering tithe which is deserving of a ban but nah its okay its just white rhystic study >dockside extortionist buck broke the edhfaggots for years before they finally had to do something about itMaybe if EDH players actually cared to police their format, all their shit wouldn't have bled over into other formats
>>736669451kino...
>>736669560EDH was a soulful player creation. ALWAYS blame WotC for ruining Magic, they were doing that long before they caught wind of the format.
>>736669451and the non-joke version
>>736669667Sure, EDH back when it was a format you only knew about if you went to a random fanpage on the internet was good. But as soon as WotC printed that first precon, the format was doomed.I'm expecting something to happen to premodern in the future. It had a slow start but is growing rapidly now. Just wait for Wizards to print "Premodern Reimagined" sets and cause schisms in the community.
>>736669583Dockside, Mana Crypt, and Lotus were about $400 altogether for the base rarities. Normal players working regular jobs with those cards in their decks absolutely got fucked just like investors.
>>736669740its funny how that card is legal in most formats but the other one is completely illegal
EDH was at its best when decks were made with chaff that wasn't good enough for competitive formats. Now people are purpose tuning their decks and it's lost its casual soul
>>736669854define normal players because most players don't have $100+ cards in their decks
>>736669854>Normal players working regular jobs with those cards in their decks absolutely got fucked just like investors.How did they get fucked, they already have the cards and aren't selling them.
>>736669778isn't the entire appeal/point of premodern that JOTC can't do anything to fuck it up? Not that I'd put it past them to try, they can't even leave something as stupid and silly as Dandan alone.
>>736669854If you paid $400 for those cards, you are not a "normal player".
>>736669854>he's stupid enough to buy cardsLol. Lmao even.
EDH is only good if you are playing limited (more specifically by deck price)
>>736669854You only got fucked if you were planning to sell them later.
People bitched about her so much she become a GC
>>736669923Just cuz you can't afford the nice cards doesn't mean other people aren't going to get themI had Jund put together for modern when it was a $2,000 deck and I was making less than 20k a year. I've met college kids working at Wendy's with decks well past $1,000. >>736669927>How does losing $400 out of your collection in one day with no warning hurt people working regular 9-5's
>>736669303Banning Jeweled Lotus always amused me.>card is specifically made for commander>it only works in commander>ban it
>>736669939that is the point, the issue is as premodern grows, it's going to have a subset of "classic" premodern players who want it to remain premodern, but there will be a lot of zoomers joining because it's the new hot shit, and these kids are going to want to play "premodern but if it evolved beyond 8th edition"wotc will cave in and start printing new cards into the premodern format under the guise of "designed for classic play" except its going to be ridiculously powercrept from the start. this will cause a break in the community where some people want wotc to fuck off, while the kids start stirring up drama and try to force everyone to play the "new premodern"
>>736669989I get all my cards from Villa too and have for years, but I'm also not naive enough to believe every Magic player knows who he is. More people build their decks with real cards than people using fakes.
>>736670153>>How does losing $400 out of your collection in one day with no warning hurt people working regular 9-5'sRead the second part of my sentence you retarded dipshit.
>>736669989There is nothing wrong with printing cards. However, FUCK the people who try to sell them as the real thing.
>>736670194but they literally can't print new cards into premodern because definitionally any new cards can't be in premodern
>>736668461I mean if you deck has sol ring in it that's already +/- 2 turns on your goldfish. Perfectly reasonable green decks can ramp to hoof mana turn 4 on an opener of ring and explosive vegitation
>>736670298I agree. Fuck those cunts. I'm happy though with making any insanely blinged out deck for under $200. It's nice that the usual combo of Usea/BL/BM has even the tryhard dudes at my LGS fooled.
>>736670375you severely underestimate wotc's willingness to ruin a good thing for the sake of money
>>736664295You really don't understand how gay crying about millenials sound
>>736670450I'm sure they're WILLING to, but they ultimately can't do shit, by the inherent rules of the format.
>>736670261I read it. You're still dumb as fuck if you think regular people were okay with losing that much money in one day. The fact the RC got such a massive backlash from the players who lost money on those cards should kinda clue you in that you're wrong and people definitely did feel a certain type of way at the time.
>>736664052Ah, the time of the week where Magic trannies flee from the board that they killed towards /v/ in hopes to pretend that their "game" is something more than a woke propaganda beatstick.
>>736665476I hate commander so much. It's not magic. It's another gay game using its cards.
>>736667667when everything is degenerate, nothing is
>>736670164it was a poorly designed card
>>736664052>Desolation Demon
>>736670545regular people don't think of their cards as money, only investorfags do that. And those are the "people" who were sending death threats to the RC.
>>736670552quest threads killed /tg/, not Magic.
>>736664295It's amazing how they hard-fucked themselves so much with this.I still remember Magic the Gathering being THE dream for many artists, but nowadays, you get shit like this around where you may confuse it for goddamn Hearthstone. Nothing wrong with Hearthstone, but it's such an eyesore after MTG being the dream job for artists since it used to be the pinnacle of everything you've learnt and studied.
>>736670692I had had a playset of Goyfs back when they were $250 each. Me and everyone else who owned them absolutely saw them as money. Players who found out their 3 cards that were once worth $400 are now essentially coasters absolutely got pissed off with the RC too. It's retardedly naive of you to think they didn't hop on that dogpile.
>>736670164it just goes to show that "design for commander" is a terrible philosophy. i would ban command tower if i could.
>>73667077110 years ago.
>>736670882Price should not be a factor for banning a card.
>>736670883Funny enough, both Command Tower and Arcane Signet are legal in Pioneer and Modern even though they do literally nothing in those formats.
>>736670771I would guess it's considered a dream job because it's consistent, long term work, not because it's particularly prestigious or artistically gratifying. I doubt many artists think their art primarily being experienced through a tiny square is the peak of artistic achievement.
>>736670531We've seen oldschool runescape except modernized. We've seen classic WoW except modernized. Age of Empires 2 except modernized and here's new features that are "designed around the core philosophy". We're seeing classic maplestory except modernized.These are all cases where the communities were there in the form of private servers and nostalgia, then the developers came in, took the opportunity, and found a way to convince the playerbase, for better or worse, that they could take the old formula and do it better with hindsight. It just requires the right timing and the right words to convince people that they know what they're doing, to get the foot in the door. It would probably be something minor in the eyes of a zoomer, something which just "feels fair" despite being format warping. Maybe they print a jackal pup that can only do 1 damage to its owner. Maybe it's another prismatic land that makes 3 color decks go from vice to virtue. Then the cracks form in the community and it splinters.Just remember. No matter how low your expectations are, it can always get worse.
>>736670882if my Cyclonic Rift was banned tomorrow and went from $40 to $0.25, I simply wouldn't care because I'm not an investorfag obsessively checking my collection's value. It's a piece of cardboard I got in a $5 randomized pack that I use to play a game with, not Amazon stock.
>>736670738And now /qst/ is a barren wasteland. It was okay for a few years after splintering off but all of the good qms up and left.
>>736664052Is there porn of her?
>>736670771>Nothing wrong with Hearthstonei would not hold up HS as an example of good art direction (except possibly "good direction for milking money from soys")
>>736670985They've changed the frame and design for art, including completely textless variations, so if they want to make some "artsy" cards, they can and have done so already.
>>736670552>>736670738mods killed /tg/ by enforcing group hug faggotry
>>736668248>core
>>736670895You're being overly gracious to 10 years ago. 10 years ago there were maybe 3 good artists and the one that everyone remembers is Seb McKinnon, with John Avon still making some lands and Rebecca Guay floating in and out of "does she still work for Wotc???" discussions.
>>736670212Fuck that, I just order them myself off of MPC and they're like 30 cents a card plus I can pick exactly the art I want. Sanctioned Magic is dead anyways
>>736670985Nah, artists dream or dreamed with working in MTG because of how insanely difficult it is to actually work on a card. I remember a Youtuber getting finally his opportunity and the whole process he did for the card art design was pretty crazy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onKhUYNe1AIIt's not just doodling until you get something going, it's actually very damn tedious. It's probably a lot more tedious than League of Legends' splash art design which some splash arts can take up so long because they don't want to see brush strokes, etc. like in >>736670771 where you can just easily see the brush strokes. It can take a really long time, some progress can take up to two or three weeks even.>>736671168It's just a different art style. I fuck with very srs artworks but I won't spit down on Hearthstone.
>>736671198>the square...is now slightly bigger!>also the art cards can't legally be played and are just pack filler, we really value your art guys!
>>736664295Magic was never good but it had a little bit of the old school fantasy soul.Now it's worse AND it's gay.
>>736671290>artists dream of...having a tedious, difficult jobhuh?
>>736671084this entire conversation is reminding me of a guy I saw at the grocery store the other day getting into a shouting match with the cashier because the pokemon cards were kept behind the register and she wouldn't let him ruffle through them all to, and I quote, "find the best lottery tickets."
>>736668791Commander is not Magic. Commander never will be Magic. Fuck Commander.
>>736671347>not wanting to work on a dream company because you're a lazy piece of shit
>>736671347michelangelo didn't carve this because it was easy
>>736670895It's an art direction issue, the artists are still great but the art director forces them to change shit to be uglier or sets them up to fail like with the infamous Miku art
>>736671291No, the art cards are legally playable, thry are official printings. Of course, if you fumble and misplay with the textless cards, then you get the point deduction/round loss.
>>736670964yes, i am aware. they were put in the initial brawl decks which means they were even standard legal for a time. honestly, i am kind of sad standard brawl never took off though. having a "lower powered" version of commander would be nice instead of going into every game wondering if you are going to see a T2 thoracle combo win every time you shuffle up.>>736670771goddamn. seeing shit like this get printed makes me think that i should get back into illustration. i could definitely produce work of this caliber after almost a decade of being out of practice. really sad to see.>>736670985nta, and while you are right about it being "consistent", the artists they had were actually great and it meant something to be able to say that you produced work for magic. but the last few years have had so many controversies of traced/copied/stolen art or otherwise such low quality art that it doesn't really mean much anymore to say "i do magic art".they should bring bisley back. it was a damn shame that they didn't have him return for TMNT seeing as he's done actual TMNT comics before AND magic cards before.
>>736671516
>>736671510>no make it look more like a cheap defective plastic doll
>>736668791go to hell fucking faggot
>>736671607For that one specifically it's more that they got an artist who doesn't know how to draw in anime style and forced him to try to do anime.
>>736671606You fucking retard, you are linking a text about art samples "cards".I'm talking about THESE cards here that are tournament, you fucking mouthbreathing cunt.https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Textless
>>736671748remind me, isn't avoiding things like that roughly 98% if the art director's job
>>736671774>>736671606>Textless spells are allowed in DCI-sanctioned Magic tournaments they are legal in.There you fucking go.
>>736671606He means the full art textless cards like the infamous Cryptic Command not the collectible art only cards
>>736668185if you care about brackets you have to be a fag
>>736664052shit on the floor child raping nigger false god jesus is not omnipotent
This was my best card when I still played the game, was funny watching my friends say they had to win the game before I summoned him, good times
>>736671798Yes but they're shit at their jobs, like their primary goal is to try to sanitize arts and make them as unified as possible instead of letting each artist's style shine through. Thankfully that's been getting better (unfortunately it's because of all the crossovers)
>>736671748>have contacts with JP artists you've used on previous secret lairs or other chase cards like in jumpstart>have western artists that *can* draw in weeb styles as seen on multiple FF/ATLA cards from last year>exclusively get artists that simply can not draw in a japanese style for the fucking HATSUNE MIKU cards>...except for the secret rare card only some people got, which actually looks goodthey know what they're doing and it's fucking disgusting>>736671798yes
>>736668791>Legendary Eldrazi>Not a Titan>Ulanigger when Ulamog is dead floating around Zendikar like a gay moon>anus mana(Kozilek's schizo shtick)I fucking love whale bait with -1 consistency for the game's setting.anyways how's mommy Emrakul these days?
>>736671846Those cards are not for peons like us. They are for high ranking judges that have earned that privilege.Or faggot whales who bought them off some faggot judges that sold them. What a disgrace.
>>736670895Bloomburrow was pretty good
>>736672004Textless cards are now promo cards every MTG game store can hand out to players. I have a textless sakura-tribe elder that they were basically giving out to any person that played a single game in the store.
>>736671978aren't eldrazi extensions of the prime eldrazi like a big cthulhu monster? like, physical fucking extensions like they're their limbs or somethingshouldn't all eldrazi on zendikar revert into long ass tentacles that go all the way to the titans once big Z and K got pulled into the plane?or is it more of a metaphorical thing and they're big tyranid type monsters?
>>736672004They started releasing more of them in collector packs and at conventions. Still pretty crazy price wise except for the commons
>>736672124>release fantasy furry expansion>Most popular set in ages>ignore the success and print marvel garbage shitWell done
>>736672223is their lead time on sets still two fucking years? it's ridiculous how lumbering they are
>friend group gets tired of edh>Fucking finally>Offer some constructed 1v1>"Nah, too much work">Offer to curate decks from a specific period that play well against each other like an old standard or modern timeframe>"Nah">Draft?>"Nah"I fucking hate edh bros
>>736672301>"We just want to play cube with all our edh staples"
>>736672301edh faggots are not Magic players.
>>736672354It's a bold implication that they or your average casual in general know what cube is.
>>736672124it's funny how they're pumping out more and more and more sets each year and yet it feels like every year lately has only had one or two sets that actually feel like magic. this year was lorwyn, last year was tarkir, before that was bloomburrow. everything else is either a hat set or UBslop
>>736672131>generic>soulless>plain uglySAD!i like the kobolds though
>>736671084I bet you'd feel different if you were a giga-whale that bought the hyper rare alternate art foil. I have met plenty of those types of edh players. You're arguing in bad faith to pretend the banned list is something you only have to worry about in constructed formats while EDH is some sort of safe-haven.
>>736672301>no draft>no constructedbased sealedgods
>>736672301Yes, they are all the same
>>736672442>I bet you'd feel different if you were a complete retardWow, good point. I never thought about it that way.
>>736672301The most fun I have is playing my old Innistrad/Return to Ravnica/Theros decks
>>736671978Zhulodok was Ulamog's chief sire before he was released from gay baby jail. He introduced vampyrism to Zendikar as well. IIRC he got dunked on by Sorin. It's been shown multiple times in lore that the higher Eldrazi (not the drones and scions) actually have a hierarchy and use advanced tactics, which Zhulodok was in charge of for Ulamog.
>>736672501>Anyone who spends more money on this than me is dumbYeah, bro. You're the arbiter of everything and people should always ask for your approval on everything cuz you're so goddamn amazing and basedAny evidence contrary to the shit that spews out of your mouth is wrong and should be ignored.
>>736672130Ugin explained the 3 Titans are "the very tips of fingers of the hand of a higher being." They don't follow the rules because it's like you putting your hand into a tiny puddle. Any microscopic organisms in the puddle would see your fingers as massive individual beasts. Ugin also said imprisoning or "killing" them does nothing, since the true being (the arm and body, if they're the fingertips), simply pulls them free after a bit or regenerates them. Basically killing a Titan is like clipping your nails. It doesn't hurt you, and they grow back.
>>736672768Correct, glad you finally understand. Please do better going forward.
>>736672620thanks for correcting me anon you increased my interest in magic these days. have an amazing day
>>736673064In terms of flavor, Zhulodok has Cascade x2 because he's the "herald" of the Eldrazi. For whatever reason, Kozilek couldn't manifest a chief sire, and Emrakul refused to call one and instead decided to talk to Jace. Emrakul seemed to imply the coming of the Eldrazi is a joyous thing, but they were summoned early and incorrectly, which saddens her. She can told Jace to literally fuck her shit up and stick her in Zendikar's moon (which she willingly conceded to instead of fighting).
>>736673312>She can told Jace to literally fuck her shit up and stick her in Zendikar's moon (which she willingly conceded to instead of fighting).Enigmatically, she literally mind-jacked Tamiyo to make her cast a spell she doesn't know so it would happen.
>>736672876It's sad that edh players like you are the lowest common denominator WotC has chosen to pander to
>>736674518Go to bed grandpa, your format is dead.
>>736674885Hope you enjoyed the TMNT set and all the other crossovers they've made for people like you in mind
>>736673312>>736674497seems like the whole corruption she does and the attack on Zendikar are unintended. But what I'm really worried about is Emmy having an actual will and not being a mindless beast like Kozilek and Ulamog seemed to be. Another question is why didn't she simply back away from the plane once Nahiri got dealt with and asked to get jailed. is Emrakul literally inside the moon or is it just the titan, and actual emrakul is just sitting besides Zendikar with her hands stuck in it?
>>736669740How do you set up a wincon for this cardI can't fathom how you would sac/discard everything else
>>736675985One with nothing + Armageddon
faggot card game
>>736675070All 3 titans are fingers od one big hand. Also Kozilek and Ulamog aren't mindless. According to Emrakul, Ulamog is a baby who needs to eat a lot to become a big boy, and Kozilek has a battle boner. The "fingers of the hand" that is Emrakul is in the moon as well. Also, Emrakul implied the emergence of the Eldrazi is a process that even she can't stop. This implies that the individual fingers of the hand (the titans) are self-aware, but they ultimately don't control the hand/arm entirely.
>>736664052Mirrodin is the coolest setting WoTC ever invented and I'm so glad they abandoned it before they went gay
>>736669303>gay overpowered paypig bait bannedThis is good for players
>>736664206Planeswalkers were always a thing, the implication was the player was the planeswalker, that's why you summon creatures and tap lands for mana, those are the worlds you've walked and the creatures you've met, spells you learned on your travels etc.
>>736668593>sorcery>put on the stackThats going to have to start a stack.
>>736676569That's some gay shit that was created later.
>>736675985Exile your own Barren Glory using an Oblivion Ring type effect then cast this
>>736676737I played Magic in 2003 that was the gist of it.
>>736671846Didn't Hasbro start using AI for cards? So whats the point of the card art anymore? It was already pozzed as fuck.
>>736676445Shame they ruined the New Phyrexians though
>>736676783They didn't, or at least they're not endorsing it since they know how vehemently their player base hates it. It's not like they pay that much per card anyways, we know the commission for each card is just 1k USD
>>736668016I believe it is common knowledge mtg turned gay and lame in 2015~ or so.
>>736676783wotc aren't going to print anything they don't own the copyright to
>>736676802Did they? Most of the art looks great, I haven't played since Ravnica but I'm pissed they stopped doing the novels, Glissa turning Phyrexian could be an amazing follow up trilogy.
I left Magic when they printed this fairy cunt and it was clear they were going to milk their players with planned powercreep and fomoEverytime I hear something new about it it's just the worst most tranny anti-consumer shit ever. Has ANYTHING about the game improved in the last 5 or so years?
>>736676585>implying I can't cast spells as if they had flash
>>736664158Maybe we should consider not letting trannies take things, sometimes
>>736677078>the shit gargling retards at niggards of the coasts didn't for one microsecond think in the planning, writing, drawing, reviewing, and printing phases that this faggot with a +1 effective removal would be used to target anything but a food token or something under your control
>>736677078That +1 is criminal.
>>736677078this and companions in such short order is what made me lose faith in the game. everything that came after just proved that it wasn't an embarrassing-yet-short streak of incompetence but the new normal
>>736677041They made them a bunch of jobbers story wise. They put on a multiverse wide invasion and got stomped in every plane they tried to invade
>>736677078For all the myriad fuckups and erosion of the game's identity, structure, and longevity, the draft environments have been pretty consistently solid if fairly boilerplate.
>>736677332>Things Shitters of the Coast learned every since: none
>>736664158>complaining about an artifact creature statline>and also complaining about NUmagic
>>736677078You picked a good time, it's only gotten worse. They've printed cards that have broken every constructed format multiple times a year
>>736677484Oh yeah I forgot about companions. To me it was Oko Uro that made me leave, and by the time Companions came out I was already gone but still kept lurking around discussion to see what was going on. I cannot fathom being a MTG player in the absolute year of 2020+6. It's clear the company hates their players and only sees them as addicted little piggies to milk with fomo, powercreep and special editions of nerd culture crossovers. Any kind of intention about making a good game went out of the window years ago.
>>736667425it might have been fun, but then Wizards took control of the format and made EDH only cards while also making the rest of the game worse because of it.
>>736664120>just have a removal card bro>just get lucky and draw the right card brofuck this gay game
>>736677332it's ok they learned from their mistakes and have never printed something absurdly overpowered since
I go to a local tabletop and hobby store friend frequents once in awhile and ignoring the the troons, it seems like peeps are much more obsessed like they're playing to win a tourney, it reminds me of the friends and aquaintantces who always play ranked in various Vidya but spending much more money.I use to play MTG in 2004 so I have a snap shot of how people were back then. The "WAAC" mentality seems unhealthy but great for tabletop and card companies.
>>736677990>>736677990>The "WAAC" mentality seems unhealthy but great for tabletop and card companies.Makes sense everyone pays more attention to the game when you're surrounded with mentally ill trannies. Its not like you're going to get any new friends in the card shop.
>>736677078I only ever beat a resolved Oko once in modern.
There is one LGS in my city where its filled with the most ugly retarded mouth breathing people ive ever seen. I'm going there today to look for some upgrades and maybe play a game. There is also another store about 30 min drive for me which is filled with tall, professional, socially aware people. The big difference is the one in my city you don't need a car for so people who are too stupid to drive can go there the one that you need to drive too has people who actually can function in society. There are no troons at the one you need to drive too cause we all know they can't afford a car. I just don't want to play only once a week though so I end up going to the retard mouth breathing shop just to play a few games with some fucking dude who has a neck beard, bad breath and is half bald and looks like a result of inbreeding. I just got back into magic after not playing for around 15 years. My colors are blue, green and white
>>736668806Sell me on digimon, is it actually good? I'm tempted to get into it by buying that Sakuyamon deck (I love hot girl mons)
>>736676445>phyrexians swapped elf tiddies for that stupid copper car hoodunderutilizing the stupid mutagenic oil/mycosynth potential will forever pain me. we could've had steel cunts and real girl robots but Elesh norn ruined it all by turning the world into a fucking bathroom depo store.
>tfw I got the card from a random booster pack onceI wish my mom didnt throw out our cards when we moved
>>736678792why are incels so obsessed with sex?
>>736678951Because it pisses you off
>>736678951I want to shag a fucking elf that might have knives inside her pussy with a womb that can run doom and the first thing you think of is "incel"? What the hell
>>736676757Magic cards used to be so cool man.
>>736679020>>736679093How to spot an incel.Honestly though, why? Why do you need to inject it into everything in your life?
>>736679279what, you don't think this is cool?
>>736677078So this guy can effectively neutralize any enemy artifact or creature by turning it into a 3/3 token, and can do this every turn for free?
>>736679495no it can do it every turn and also gain a loyalty counter so it's even better than if it was just free
>>736677078Genuinely read that one as -1 at first and still thought that was good.
>>736671084>It's a piece of cardboard I got in a $5 randomized packMost people buy the expensive single outright which is actually the smart thing to so. If you bought a $100 staple thinking it would last you decades of pkaying then it gets banned next month you'd be pissed too.
>>736679406They should have just made a different TCG entirely for all of this pop culture shit.
my wife Rosnakht
>>736679740They had the rare unglued/unhinged sets for this bullshit but the entire company got invaded by quirkchungus and her merry band
>>736664158unlimited token spam is a fun aspect of mtg thobeit.
>>736679495Yup. And if he doesn't have any enemy threat to target he can start making his own 3/3s too. And he also has a pretty beefy starting loyalty and has healing in the form of food so he's good against aggro too. He was literally never useless, except against 1turn combos.
>>736679817They got invaded by $$$. Capitalism kills everything it touches.
>>736668317>anteImagine the modern local game store EDH autists pissing and shitting themselves if that was still a thing lol
>>736667667>one faggot doing gay u/g turbo ramp and draw 30 cards with a valuesharting commander that wins the game if he ever untapsi particularly hate this onewhile im at it, fuck xenagos too
>>736668317>when a developer turns the april fools mechanic into a permanent oneThis is when you know it's time to get out of anything. They no longer respect you as a player.
>>736679740>>736679817they should have just made it a "deckmaster" game. magic is a subbrand of "deckmaster" and then you can have "spiderman deckmaster" or whatever. same rules, you can blend them if you'd like, but mtg remains mtg and all the pop culture stuff can exist as an auxiliary. they could have done this and then had a "galaxy: the gathering" as well, a new IP that has a sci-fi tint instead of a fantasy one, keeping shit like edge of eternities separate from the same universe as theros. but no, they need everything to all be one big jumble.>invaded by quirkchungusthat isn't the issue. the issue is hasbro shareholders and fortnite. they just saw the dollar signs of crossovers and went for it because of money and disregarded all artistic vision/integrity.
>>736666167FNM was cancer. >StandardPay $800 to have a chance until your shit rotates in 8 months.>Modern/VintagePay $1600 to play against the same 8 decks>LegacyPay $2400 to play against no oneMagic always was, and always will be, at its best as kitchen table.
>>736672524The last based format.
>UB is what is killing magic!>meanwhile, in universe
>>736672442Yes, I probably would feel differently if I were a completely different person.
>>736680423And it makes perfect sense business wise too, it would be stupid not to do crossovers. Lord of the Rings was the most successful Magic set ever, then Final Fantasy was the most successful Magic set ever, then Avatar The Last Airbender was the third most successful Magic set ever.
>>736679348It's almost like human beings are hardwired to seek sex at all times to secure reproduction.
>>736674518actually, Wizards has chosen to pander to the collector and investorfags pretty heavily. because they spend the most money.
>>736679701I just wouldn't buy the $100 staple, because I'm not an idiot
>>736680770whats wrong with this guy, seems pretty mid desu
>>736679701you know you dont have to pay attention to what wotc says is banned or not. you can just ignore them.you can even make up your own house rules if you want
>>736680770>magic, flight exists>healing magic, can revive people>magical negro is in a self propelled wheelchairLol, lmao
>>736680797So go have sex then so we don't have to witness you subhumans jerking off in public all the time.
>>736680770>muh in universe!
>>736668791EDH has no creative spark.>can't decide how many cards go in a deck and how many of 1 to 4 of a playset>always 100% of the time have a 8th card in your hand that can't be discarded or exiledI despise formats where lightning bolt is unplayable. Whereas normal multiplayer magic I can run 4 bolts and cards like guttersnipe to give them more reach.
>>736680770>>736681282hat sets are just UB that they couldn't get the license for
>>736668165Geg
>>736681282more like transitioned mage
>>736681282In uni
>>736671149>3 low quality images on rule34.xsad
>>736667667Shit like this is why I only play with close friends (one of them became a combonigger, though)
>>736681948you realize that you must kill him, right? you may love old yeller, but there's only one thing to do.
>>736681282Everyone fucking hated DFT, thoughbeit.
>>736667667>>the douchebag who says "i'm bringing a fair 3" to the table with his creature deck except its actually voltron infinite combat stepsSomeone got bootyblasted by Tifa didnt they
>>736680976Some people like winning games.>>736681047Most people don't have a clique of trannies where they can make a safespace hugbox so no one ever gets to feel bad. Some of us go to stores to play against semi-randoms so you need a shared frame of reference of what is allowed to play regardless on if you know the opponent.
>>736669583Cant you show up with some custom printed plastic card facsimile, or even paper , at anything unofficial and non sponsored to get a game going? I dont play this game but I would never expect anyone to drop 1k in official cards unless they're a big fucking diehard
>>736682587>b-but I can't win without my Jeweled Lotusjust stop being bad at the game
>>736667667Retards like you will get mad at literally any deck someone plays against you.Ever consider maybe you just don't like the game?
>>736681163What do you think the "in" in "incel" stands for?
>>736682906It stands for take responsibility for your problems and fix them.
>>736664052>friends get me to play magic after 5 years of not touching it>commander>it's the worst fucking experience of my life>what used to be a dozen games is now fucking 2 or 3what dumb fucking cunt retard thought up this fucking miserable format?
>>736684182>quantity of game = quality of game???
>>736668185Probably the biggest and only real benefit of the bracket system is that it points out when someone's being a faggot at least half the time, as opposed to never pointing it out. It's just a list of general suggestions for how to be less of an asshole when playing that can be summed up almost entirely as:"The game isn't fun when people are shuffling more than they're playing."That can mean ending the game too early, taking too long on your turns, searching through your deck too frequently, or locking people out entirely. That's about 3/4ths of the Game Changers, bans, and bracketing summed up.
>standard has a cardpool of 4000 cards What have they done to my boy?
>>736684464six+ full-sized standard sets a year
>>736684182Yeah, it's awful. Many cards basically require a manual just to understand what they're doing. It's like the age old powercreep problem in MMORPGs.On top of that, you're playing a card game where tiny upside-down paragraphs are out of reading distance - you essentially have to already be familiar with an opponents deck to play smoothly.
This foxy lady comes up to you at the LGS and slaps your ass with the force of 30 auras on turn 3.How do you respond without sounding mad? Be aware she has hexproof, protection from all colors, and protection from creatures.
>>736684464>>736684513and a three year rotation
>>736684389>fun thing that's quick>get a lot of it>thing that's as slow and fucking horrible>have to deal with it 3 timescommander is quantity. 10,000 years of never having fun.
>>736664158Mirrodin block was the golden age for Magic
>>736684556>PioneerLOLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
>I block your TMNT Leornardo with my T-51 Power Armour equpped Cpt Jean-Luck PicardThis is a real MTG combat sequence. I don't care anymore, let the EDHfags burn it all to the ground. I only want WotC so suffer at this point.
>>736684464doubling the amount of cards in rotation, multiple times, in short succession, has a tendency to do that
>>736684554holy fuck don't even get me started>bro just know everyone's 100 card deck>bro just memorize the 1000 fucking cards in play>hey what does gitzreth the unmired do again?>tap 10>gain flying, lifelink, and deathtouch on tuesdays>blight shift>if it's tuesday night black spells are now red>trilogy>every time blight shift is used before attack phase gain 1 white mana per unused mana>at level 3 trilogy gain 1 blue mana per opponents unused mana>tap>sacrifice gitzreth the unmired to play 20,000 0/9 wall tokensI JUST WANT TO PLAY THE FUCKING GAME
>>736684626genuine git gud moment, love of the game is everything, a slow game is a delightful game
>>736684556I can't wait until they increase the size of the cards so they can write more stupid bullshit on each card and then declare that all standard size cards are illegal for play or whatever the fuck.MTG cucks would eat it up, too.
Post your CaC
>>736684556>How do you respond without sounding mad? Be aware she has hexproof, protection from all colors, and protection from creatures.Into the cuck cage.
>>736681303>that can't be discarded or exiledThey can be, there are effects where they fucked up and don't let the state be checked in time (all of which became staple boogeyman cards which make commander plays piss and scream)
>>736684984Sadly the cards pretty easy to understand and could be shortened several lines with better keywording.Honestly I'm surprised that "search your library for [blank] then shuffle" hasn't been keyworded to Fetch yet.
>>736672124>Bloomburrowi saw a few cards of this set and i thought they were so cool that i genuinely considered trying out mtg
>>736665330there are no yugioh clones at all lolpretty much all relatively popular TCGs besides YGO are mtg with extra or reduced steps
>>736684980Getting gud is literally frowned upon by most commander players.
>>736685437True skill is knowing how to play your table, not just making the strongest deck possible.
So many players at my locals fled from MTG to Yugioh.
>>736684984>cast aura>look for another aura you don't already have in your deck>Attach it to fox ladyWow so hard to understand
>>736664052I quit when they nerfed players from being planeswalkers in lore themselves so they could make shitty enchantment with HP variation, never looked back. MTG has only gotten lamer from everything i've seen.
>>736684901kekA buddy of mine invited me to play commander a while ago and I told him sure, but I was a bit rusty and haven't played in 20 years so he would have to be patient, he said no worries, it's a very casual and easy game mode for Magic. He dropped off a box of cards and told me I could choose any of his decks to play with, told me to just watch some YouTube tutorials on how to play and already I'm just like, fuck this, because I don't want to spend 3 hours watching tutorials for a fucking card game.I ended up going over that night to play and it was awful. I was using the deck he told me was the easiest and by the third turn I was supposed to know that my cards could tap an unlimited amount of times and have infinite damage. I asked for a breakdown on how that was supposed to work and the other guys groaned and I was basically just told "just attack we already know they have infinite power". I didn't even know who I should attack, everyone had all of these seemingly busted cards with 3 different attributes and walls of text, I had to go around and ask people to read or hand their cards to me. Felt like I was taking 10 minutes per turn. I didn't even know commander damage was a thing until after the game ended.I don't fault any of them, they were playing with a newbie, but I don't think they realize how overwhelming commander as a format is for a new player. I don't think there's anything casual about it, really. I get that it's where you go when standard isn't doing it for you anymore, but god damn.
Commander would be a lot more tolerable if wotc didn't deliberately kill every other format.
>>736685237Fair, but then you've also got keyword/mechanic bloat, and you KNOW they will keep adding more shit. That isn't to say that complexity is bad, but complexity doesn't always make something better either.The moment you start having to make rules for single cards or have multiple conditions to track within a rule, you've started turning the game into a lesser product.
>>736685673YGO is either>Draw your hand>Throw coin>Go second>Opponent shows me his starting hand>Yeah bro you won let's go againor>Draw your hand>Throw coin>Either solo play doing retarded combos for 20 minutes or watch someone else do it while you doomscroll>gg bro was fun
>>736685841the sell of>bro it's easierwhen before it was 10 times easier to remember shit, because every deck was like>4 of the same creature>4 of the same creature>4 of the same spellit's fucking dumb.
>>736685841>I get that it's where you go when standard isn't doing it for you anymoreMost commander players have only ever played commander. A fair subset think the name "standard" refers to what is actually vintage.
>>736685841Hot take. Multiplayer magic was a mistake. >Have to wait 3x the time until it's your turn againYeah nah fuck that shit.Also what's up with faggot sharting and bitching at you for countering their snowflake commanderinos? It's almost like they don't like mtg.
>>736685708>plays card game for 1000 hours>wow this deck of cards with more words than the bible is *so hard*I mean yeah, it is.
>>736671251That kind of still proves the point. Magic art from 10 years ago, when the quality was clearly on the decline, is still leagues better than what we get now.
>hey what if we made an entire set for one playstyleMust be pretty great to be a spellslingerfag right now
>>736668165I want to get his custom printed for a commander deck.
>>736684980>Play stax or other slow down cards>Collective groan from the table and become target no. 1
>>736686573You choose to play EDH, EDHfag. You're part of the problem
>>736686598MY LOCALS FUCKING DIED AND MY FRIENDS ONLY CARE ABOUT EDH
>hur dur I hate modern magic>so i'll spend all my time focusing on it whenever magic comes upwhy the fuck is /v/ so fucking retarded like thisy'all niggas could be talking about like, the shit you added to your tower or cube, or like, getting draft matches going in TTS or somethin, or cool old shit in the lore n' what notinstead it's just wahhhhhh thing everyone agrees is bad is bad, aren't i smart and talking about shit that's totally newit's circlejerking r*ddit-tier shit where there's no actual discussion to engage in, just updoots and reaffirming already established consensus
>>736686992>negro reaction image
>>736686992>draftLow iq nigger detected
>>736686992>wah why is everyone trashing muh consumerist card game that I spent thousands of dollars on in a video games forum, they must be reddit!peak reddit post tho
>>736684690no it wasn't. it started the decline. invasion, odyssey and onslaught were the peak of magic
>>736686992Because wallowing in misery takes less effort, and becomes addicting. As you can see by the seething replies to your post.
you wouldn't fuck a persian
>>736670554Tried playing commander once without really knowing much about it. Match starts, and on the second turn one guy is about to declare an attack to destroy another dude's creature and that guy goes "don't attack my creature bro, if you don't attack me I promise not to counter your next spell" and the the first guy cancels the attack to attack me instead. Immediately I thought "oh fuck... I misunderstood what this game is about." Played the rest of the match but then went home and never played it again. I hate games with negotiation/social deduction shit in them.
>>736687913>don't attack my creature
>>736680770>Cleric>Can't heal his own legs.Be wary of a chef who refuses to eat his own food.
>>736687446>yes I wo- oh the cat
>>736687913Play with people who don't allow politics.This sort of thing can happen in pretty much any kind of FFA format. I think it kind of cheapens the spirit of the game in terms of MTG.
>>736688429Normies don't want that, they want to sit around and touch their expensive combo rocks and claim to be the good guys every game
>>736687446You've got the wrong card game, we've got different fuckable cats here
>>736676569Yes, and planeswalkers all fucking hated each other. That's why they constantly tried to kill each other even in the middle of invasion. There is absolutely no way you would be able to just summon some random ass planeswalker, at the very least not without a heavy downside and a chance that your own shit would lose you the game.
>>736664052>Play this card>Set my opponent's deck on fire
>>736686191You have to curate multiplayer a bit in order for it to work. First of all, no politics, no favors, no "I'll do X if you do Y" - just fucking play, your goal is to win the game by eliminating the other players. Secondly, depending on the number of players you have, free for all is not always the best option. The optimal number for multiplayer is actually five provided that you play pentagram (everyone has two opponents and turn order goes in pentagram order). First player to knock out both of their opponents wins. This keeps the multiplayer aspect intact while streamlining what you need to really pay attention to.
>>736676569he quite clearly meant Planeswalker cards, and he's right that they were a mistake
>>736687208>that I spent thousands of dollars onTTS is like, $15, my dude
>>736686191Combofags do that in any card game and commander is basically all combofags past a point.
>>736668827fuck you're stupid
>>736668827The same reason they keyworded "gain life equal to the damage this creature does" Because modern magic is such slop they started to run out of space on text boxes.
>>736689232You spent $15 and it triggers you that much when people talk shit about it? Damn. $15 must be a lot to you.
>>736689643two things1. Knightlifelink is a joke mechanic on a joke card in a joke set2. you're really getting mad about lifelink? gonna throw a tantrum about haste too while you're at it?
>>736669889Well cheese is stronger since you don't need to wait. That said I doubt cheese would be to OP to see bannings from that metric alone.
>>736689951Let me tell what I'm actually mad about, defender. Why the fuck even keyword that when wall was already perfectly fine.
>>736690069Because Wall is a creature type, not all walls are defenders and not all defenders are walls
>>736676737nah that was exactly what everyone thought in the pre-internet days>got scammed out of insanely valuable 1995 MTG cards as a kid because I thought the art was gay
>>736690219All walls were walls prior to defender and there was no reason to change that.
>>736690219>not all walls are defendersI tried looking it up and unless I fucked up my scryfall search there's zero walls that lack "defender" in its card textI'll give you that there's non-walls with defender but I mean if Legendary has its own rules baggage the who cares about Walls having the same thing
>>736690296But they wanted to make creatures that aren't actually walls but can't attack, so it made sense
>>736690367He would probably try to argue shit that is "this card is all creature types" or whatever counts(and technically he would be correct), but that didn't exist back then so I can't say he is right.
>>736668720I actually want to play this now. How hard would it be to convince my locals to let le use this as a commander?
>>736691215Depends on what your locals actually are like and we can't answer that.
>>736684735I remember making crossover cards back in elementary school, but even back then I knew it was cringe.
>>736685157>Colored artifactsThis has always been retarded. We already have colored non-creature permanents, they're called enchantments.
>>736694013you're a bit late to the party
>>736694812Dumbass, I was there when it happened. It was retarded then and it hasn't gotten any less retarded since Alarra. That's what the word "always" means.
>>736668791>you can use anything
>>736668791I've always hated EDH, I actually began to hate it even more when I found out it's just solitaire circle jerk in the modern day
>>736695434This lil prancing green nigga mogs cabal coffers
Doublestrike is horseshit and you all know it. Why not have double trample or double haste? Assholes. Fuck you!
>>736679882It got a pass and had its place when it was limited to a color or two but everyone getting it is stupid
>>736695709what
>>736695886he doesnt like creatures basically doubling their powerand he has a point
>>736695117M-my knees... they...
Do the people that make this fucking game even test it or even give an ounce of thought about balance when they design these cards?
>>736696568not anymore lmao
>>736696568when they explained the mistake of this card, they said "we didn't test it properly".they basically don't.
for me, it's whatever card is the cutest
>>736696568They stopped about 15 years ago when all the straight white men left. Now Daisy and Stacy can't be bothered, Pajeet and Prajahl are shitting in the servers room and Tyrone is busy being a model for the new handicapped trans black character with vitiligo
>>736685841>I ended up going over that night to play and it was awful. I was using the deck he told me was the easiest Yeah, I genuinely feel sorry for you.I've gotta couple of friends who keep trying to do this exact same shit. And I keep having to repeatedly talk them down from claiming that commander is beginning friendly.It's "retard" friendly. But it's not beginner friendly. And people get those two confused.
>>736664052>can be killed>can be exiled>can be targeted by any number of spells to let you take over the cardWhat exactly is bad about this?
But lets make this vidya related.
>>736697001failing to draw a targeted elimination or a tutor (or having tutors be disabled by something else)
>>736697262that's how the game works
>>736696834>tranime garbage
>>736696970Based capitalists dabbing on MTG nerds
>>736697363but i dont want it to work like thati should just get my ensnaring bridge demonic tutor and path to exile when i need it
>>736697413Sorry, this more your speed?
>>736697578Yeah, playing 200 hours of Slay the Spire just reinforced to me that I don't fucking like card games.
>>736668317Foglio kino
>>736695886c a r
>>736698193different Foglio
*WEGs your Anime*
>>736698351>"baAAAAAAH"- Miku, the Abomination
>>736698351at least the birds look cute
>>736697582No, since that's a tranny that's still in your department.
>>736697862my first thought
>>736696970nobody who works at WOTC is a stacy. more like a Lilith (born Larry)
>>736680797funny how you are so hardwire and obsessed with sex yet you never get any lol
>>736667063I don't want to buy boosters (gambling) and I don't want to buy 4 copies of $20+ cards thougheverbeit
>>736700956>You are obsessed with the thing you can get, that thing your entire biology screams at you to get every waking moment but you are still unable to experienceYeah, haha...
>>736698351>>736698457>Miku set of cardsAw shit that's coo-->all the art is by westernersWHY WOULD YOU DO THAT
>>736701330not all of it, the only good ones were the nip cards as per usual
>>736665476WotC didn't do that, Magic players did that.It's simply the best way to play Magic and the clear majority agrees.
actually the best way to play magic is cube draft with proxy cards because fuck wotc
Arc slogger my beloved.
>>736701543>>736701461I like both.
>>736664052So what are the genuine odds that Lorwyn is the only successful set this year? The art of Return to Strixhaven looks like absolute dogshit. Keep in mind Lorwyn was supposed to be the final set of last year til Nickelodeon came outta nowhere to make an Avatar set.
>>736701607>exiling a tenth of your deck to do 2 damage to one targetwhat sort of madman would play this
>>736701427There's the $8000 mistake release Miku card too
>>736701758anon, your opponent is at 8 and you have sloggy in play. you may now kill him at the cost of 4 mana and 0 cards played from hand.Slogger was a menace in Onslaught block constructed (it was a PTQ format at the time, people had to play this)
>>736678792Nu Phyrexia had cool monster designs, I will die on this hill.
>>736680770I honestly hope they make a Harry Potter UB. Imagine the backlash it will receive from their playerbase.
my fav deck was the black one i made where everyone was punished for putting creaturs on the board and i had a bunch of drain life cards. I just chucked every drain life and board sweep and creature punish card I had together to make an 90 card deck and it actually obliterated my friend in a 1v1 which was funny.also made a typical full aggro ed deck with a lot of direct damage spells and my friend tried using it but he wasted all the spells on random creatures not realizing he is suppose to race the opponent.
>>736665330I like the Hololive one. It’s like Pokemon but it solved a lot of the issues Pokémon has.
>>736697087>FF set the most successful set of all time and the only one where the girls looked attractive>Apparently artists despised having to draw Tifa and shit as seen with them censoring Lulu's cleavage and stuffI find it funny how the most successful set has attractive girls in it.
>>736701708>stopped playing after spider-man>skipped Llorwyn>came back for thisI feel like I’m getting fed shit
>>736701461Nah, faggots like you are too scared of getting your shit wrecked 5 times in a row at locals. So, you keep to your gay little group hug experience while real chads run the gauntlet and go home winning 20 packs after 5 rounds.I had way more fun seeing my 20+ friends twice a week, going out with them after making top 8, and play testing at some 24 hr fast food place till 3 AM.
>>736701758Not that guy but maybe you're still allowed to do it without remaining cards and you can zap someone to death.Obviously sucks dick in commander with 4 players that have 40 health
>>736690482They had the solution, because Mistforms just didnt become walls.
>>736702684kill yourself
>>736703047
>>736701758because who the fuck cares about the contents of your library if you can kill your opponent from this alone
>>736690482NTA, but I'd just argue that having typal specific abilities for creatures is a poor precedent. Walls have such a limited flavor space and you can only print "Wall but with barbed wire!" so many times before you start printing other types that can't attack. And once you ask the question of "Why don't we just keyword these non-walls?", then you start asking why you needed an official rule for a single creature type to begin with. Also, early WotC grossly overestimated how popular walls would be, so there's that too.
Which one has gotten worse over time, Magic or Yu Gi Oh?
>>736664052I play this card
>>736694013I hated it at first.But at a certain point, I realized that making artifacts colorless is just flavor that makes them harder to balance and they did a better job of distinguishing artifacts and enchantments through their use of subtypes. It doesn't make sense for an aura to be an artifact, and it doesn't make sense for an equipment to be an enchantment. And I think at the very least giving equipment color was a good idea.
>>736704276I would beat you
>>736685673Yugioh is the shittiest card game in existence.>t. played Yugioh for over a decade
>>736705390
>>736664295LOTR was too successful. Blame it.>they did Godzilla and Transformers before thatYeah the game was fallen by 2015 if you actually know
>>736686452um sweety that's not okay, okay?
>>736676569Those Planeswalkers still exist. You as the player of the card game are a powerful enough Planeswalker that you can summon OTHER lesser Planeswalkers and creatures as strong as Eldrazi and shift the entire battlefield like you're a Prince of Amber.
>>736706285akshullay, you're summoning echos or images of them, not the real thing
>>736704169Yugioh can theoretically be "fixed" at any time with a stroke of a pen. Magic is going to need a limg road to recovery
>>736704169MtG is still perfectly playable, YGO is two bad konami decisions away from basically becoming fully unplayable
>>736707049I guess YGO recently found it's first Turn 0 win combo. It's not practical and unlikely to be pulled off but the fact that you can win before you take your first turn is retarded.
>>736707049>YGO is two bad konami decisions away from basically becoming fully unplayableIt doesn't really work like that.
>>736707159>Turn 0 winhow the fuck is that supposed to work
>>736707184https://www.youtube.com/shorts/z7d7r8xG4K0I don't actually play YGO I just heard about it, so I'll let some other nerd explain it.
>>736707184>sit down>play platinum angel from your deck>declare you are going first>while your opponent calls a judge draw all 5 pieces of exodia >the judge can't do anything thanks to platinum angel >win>repeat
>>736701758Back in the day you would play this and onxe you get your opponent to 8 life or so you just nuke your library to finish them off. Its a design space that was never revisited again for red, which is sad because theres a lot of potential for it.
>>736707184TLDR they finally released a card that breaks synchros.
>>736668856I thought you were dead Sir Terry?
>>736664295Magic was never good.
>>736664158literally no one plays planeswalkers they suck
>>736667441To be fair people should've predicted hat sets would be thing with Innistrad inexplicably having gothic horror garruk in it
>>736707487>it was so not good it basically spawned an entire genre and game design philosophy that universally all card games learn and follow fromwow
>different planes actually being hecking drastically different from each other? oh my science say it isn't so!
>>736665330>Grid battlers Sorcery, Summoner Wars, Gudnak>Bootleg Netrunners Hubworld, Nisei>Martial Art DuelsFaB, shitton indie ones>Lane battlers & Point Racersa million of them out thereAt best, every new game is just riffing off Dual Masters. You can call it a bootleg of a bootleg, but MtG being the progenitor means things like having a deck and playing cards with costs can be trivialized as "bootleg mtg"
>>736665158it's "personnel", newfag
>>736707742Duel Masters is literally based off MTG, this is attested by Wizards and the Takara Tomy themselves since they wanted to cater more to Japanese tastes. Like it's literally meant to be a simplified MTG with larger numbers and anime-style battles and art
>>736702114>I like the Hololive onewhich one
>>736707718>cancer metastasizes Shocker.
>>736702684>>736703237I have no idea what these things are but white kobold alternatives would be neat.
>>736708461You get a pass since you may not actually know, but for future reference never respond to the guy (and it is one guy) who posts these things ever again.
>>736708537You're not boss of me now and you're not so big.
>>736668097>FNM is EDH nowgod i fucking wish>be me 12 years ago>LGS had over 80 assistants for standard RtR - Theros>back in 2026>7 players for pre release of TNMT and 12 for strixhaven new set>no more FNMs and commanderfags could only play on mondays and only 8-10 players still play this cursed format>meanwhile pokemon, yugioh and somehow Digimon and being played by teens and young adults on fucking fridays and weekendsfuck man, I want to go back to those days.
>>736664052Question Magicfags: can you just surrender under this card effect? Are players actions different from game actions?
>>736708738Pretty sure surrendering is an action that can be taken at any point
>>736708738A player can concede the game at any time.Doesn't Yugioh work the exact same way, which is why that card is worthless even in a magical christmasland scenario?
>>736665158Rules say I can't lose the game so I simply refuse to let your action resolve.
>>736708821>>736708861So even if my opponent plays the Plat Angel I can scoop no problem at all? I was thinking its going to be something like >ok I give up>good I win the match>oh wait I cant >fuck you just gave me the match>suck it I cant you retard, read your own card!>JUUUUDGE!
>>736696834For me it's the coolest and the cutest cards together
>>736708738>(12/1/2004)>You can concede a game while Platinum Angel on the battlefield. A concession causes you to leave the game, which then causes you to lose the game (Once you concede, you no longer control a Platinum Angel, so its ability can't prevent you from losing the game).
>>736708738It's not good sportsmanship to concede when you've won but conceding is a "legal" action so you can do it anytime. Any effects (like life gain from damage) still resolve and still goes through in games where there's more than two players. The problem arises when a concession is given to create a draw in these multi-player scenarios for petty reasons, which would then lean more towards house rules on when such a thing occurs.>C.R. 104.3a says: "A player can concede the game at any time. A player who concedes leaves the game immediately. That player loses the game."
>>736709169>>736708738A common house rule is that scooping is done at sorcery speed.
>>736678678It's great, the best game mechanically by far, and the devs seem to genuinely care about the franchise. Even when they have their missteps as all card games do, they never appear to be motivated by greed.A few of the selling points of this game:- the resource system is tied to a shared memory gauge rather than useless 'land' cards that have to go in your deck- every time you evo, you draw a card, which keeps the ball rolling as you play- there are ZERO effects that cause decks to be shuffled mid game. All searches reveal [x] number of cards off the top of the deck, then put the rest back to the bottom of the deck (usually). You only ever have to shuffle at the beginning of a game as a result, which is an extremely nice QoL thing if you've ever played another TCG- since it's a relatively smaller game with a rarity system that isn't overly greedy, the price of entry is cheaper than most TCGs- most of the time the meta is VERY diverse. We're talking 10+ meta relevant decks in any given format- the devs do a very good job of making effects mechanically match the lore of the Digimon on the card- a wide variety of Digimon are featured in playable decks, so the chances are high that you can use some of your favorites- the art and graphic design on the cards is generally high qualityThe one negative point to mention is that like all Bandai games, there are a lot of promo cards with unique effects, which can make it hard to build certain decks. However, recently the majority of those promo cards come from entry packs at local tournaments, so just playing a few times and trading amongst your community should get you everything you need. And anecdotally I find the community to be very friendly and welcoming as a whole.
>>736709169>do it anytimeAND overrules any victory condition for you *So you can concede despite having cards like Platinum Angel in play BUT you also cannot concede when you got someone with Mindslaver since you are only allowed game-based actions and conceding is more a player "legal" action. You being not the player, cannot concede on their behalf.
>>736665476>Go to card shop to get the latest set decks to get my bro and I back into magic>"Yo can I get two separate decks of the new set?">"Uh... those don't exist anymore. There's just commander decks now.">Wtf is commander>"Whatever I'll buy two of those">Get them >There's 100 fucking cards in the deck>Take it to my bro's>We spend 30 minutes learning the rules>Then another like 2 fucking hours playing the game and it just never ends>Bored>Drop the idea of returning to MTG >That was years ago now, haven't thought of the card game since this threadWeird. IIRC it was the Bloodborne/Werewolf/Vampire set.
>>736709290If you're talking about Innistrad, they revisted that block like four times.
>>736709257Also: no rotation.I know some people defend rotation, but I think in general most would agree that it sucks not being able to use perfectly good cards just because they're old.
>>736709448Rotation is fine as long as there's still support for the alternate formats. The other option is to just keep banning more and more cards and sometimes that's a different pain.The only card game I play currently is Lorcana which went through it's first rotation about six months ago, but they do major official regional tournaments in both "core" and unlimited, and will likely do both at the world championship.
>>736708964The card only works like that in meme greentexts.
>>736709257I will say the Digimon card game is the only one so far that has made me interested on trying other things beyond Magic, the resource system sounds really cool
>>736707184Theres a turn 0 flash hulk line too, its just bad and not worth having in your deck.In the case of magic, it meant you could it as soon as you have priority, potentially before your turn 1.
>>736709564Digimon has 1 banlist per season, usually 5-10 cards.In the 5 years that the game has been out, there are only 3 cards that have been fully banned, with everything else being limited to 1.There are various side tournaments that crop up here and there with different card pools, but in general the game is kept in one cohesive non-rotating format.
>>736708537Why?
>>736709873He will shit up any thread by dumping those horrid looking creatures.
God I wish Hearthstone hadn't permanently ruined every virtual card game forever
>>736709564>Rotation is fine as long as there's still support for the alternate formats.This never works. The playerbase will inevitably gravitate towards one format and the rest will wither on the vine.
>>736709893I've seen worse cac
>>736686992I wish Shandalar came up more often here. There's even mods for various years and ears of cards added into the game. It's cool as fuck, even if it's carried a little by nostalgia.
>>736709647It is, it's really satisfying and creates a unique back and forth dynamic. I don't know how much you know about it, but basically it's a guage that goes from 0 to 10 both ways. The game starts with 0 memory, then you pay memory to use cards, going negative by however much on your opponent's side. When the memory is on your opponent's side and you have no more pending effects, the turn switches over, and your opponent now has however much memory you gave them to work with. Alternatively, you can pass your turn at any point and your opponent will automatically start at 3 memory.Sometimes you want to play close to the chest to give your opponent as little resources as possible, sometimes you want to go balls to the wall and just say "deal with this".There's a group of decks right now that thrive when they start their turns at 4 or less memory, so we're in a meta where people are actually looking for ways to pass turn with a LOT of memory just so those decks can't abuse certain effects. Fun shit.
>>736701962they are, but original mirrodin's oil corruption was more terrifying. Norn NERFED the oil terribly with her white mana autism. At least Jin got to put tamiyo in the oil jar.
>>736710132>has a woman moment and ruins everythingtypical really
>>736710129Yeah, that's about what I knew about it. Are traits important in this game? Can you make a 'tribal' deck, so to speak?
>>736710129How do you determine the winner? Like what's stopping me from dumping my deck in turn 1 and just get all the victory conditions or whatever?
>>736708738cool yugioh facts: When victory dragon was first printed it was under a ruleset where you could only concede the game during your turn.
>>736710521That's retarded.
>>736676783I'm shocked that's the one that always gets posted and not this fucking one. It's so god damn absurd, that even a dragon couldn't be a dragon.
>>736710562>that handThis is what convinces me that it's actually subtle parody.
>>736710562I've seen this one more often, personally. Cracks me up every time.
>>736710232Recently the game is mostly tribal, with effects and support being tied to traits moreso than colors. Most decks have very defined builds, but recently there are a lot of "trait pile" decks that have a lot more versatility to mix and match.>>736710291Winner is determined by1. a successful attack to the player with no security shields remaining2. deckout, which is when you have 0 cards at the start of your turn and are unable to draw>Like what's stopping me from dumping my deck in turn 1The memory gauge for one thing. Memory cannot exceed 10 on either side for any reason, so for instance if you're at 0 memory, you cannot play something with a play cost of 12, because memory can't go past 10 on your opponent's side. But moreover, if memory is not on your side and there are no more effects actively pending, you can't take any more actions; it just becomes your opponent's turn.
>>736710770How many security shields are there, and how are they removed?Does attacking require resources?
>>736710859Both players start with 5 Security. A Digimon can declare an attack by tapping (called "suspending" in Digimon), and can target either Security, or another suspended Digimon. When you battle a security card, that card is flipped over. If that card has a "Security effect" printed on it, you apply whatever effect is written. If that card is a Digimon, you compare your Digimon's DP to the DP of the Digimon in security. If your Digimon's DP isn't higher, your Digimon will lose the security battle and be deleted. Afterward, regardless of what happened with the security battle, the security card is sent to the trash (grave in other games).
>>736711178>>736710859Oh, and the 5 security cards are drawn randomly from the top of the deck at the beginning of the game, and placed facedown. Neither player can see the contents of security under normal conditions.
