>RPG/JRPG>bosses are immune to status effectsFor what purpose
If SNES you can just 1 shot bosses with Vanish+Doom/X-Zone. Works on almost every bossed. Beware that you lose out on some great items this way IIRC
Because status effects make the game aspect trivial.>Cast Stop>Win
>>736728645Developers don't know how to balance status effects and fundamentally having a chance to disable the actions of a boss is too strong when you outnumber it.
ff6 has a ton of bosses that can be cheesed if you know which status effect they're vulnerable to. but yeah there's some that are immune to all status. that means you use different strategies for different fights.
>>736728645To make them more difficult but it's rather bullshit because it means that status effects are pretty useless skills overall. If you're not going to be allowed to use part of your toolkit against any of the bosses then it's better to just not give you it in the first place than give you something useless.
>>736728645>Nearly no boss in the game has immunity to status ailments.>Status ailment have a ton of utility for forcing and abusing status ailments>Best JRPG battle system everDon't ever let them tell you it's because Status ailments are OP, the proof already exists that free Status Ailments is awesome
Expidition 33 made status effecta fun
Artificial difficulty. Prefer when they do it like IX and have certain effects still work. For instance those red dragons that you fight in the underground city can be petrified which is cool
>>736728645Sex with esper terra for the purpose of procreation
>>736728756>include entire branch of gameplay mechanics >arbitrarily make them useless whenever there's an actual important enemy
Should just make it to where it only lasts a few turns like how in pokemon sleep or confuse only seem to last 2-3 turns when you do it to the enemy but all 5 when it happens to you
>>736729254What does her breast milk taste like?
>>736728645Play enough Atlus games and you'll realize that bosses being affected by status effects is actually just "oh, you can cheese the fuck out of them".
>>736729587Chocomint
>>736729587"Magic" flavor
>>736729693i learned that in final fantasy 11 where red mage(the debuffing/status ailment class) became the best solo job in the game.
>Every boss is vulnerable to all status ailments>Game still manages to have challenging boss fights
>>736728645to troll you when you read on the internet that the boss you've been stuck on is actually vulnerable to instadeath spells
>cast poison>a while later final bass threatening to destroy the world dies from poisontell me that is not Gay go ahead
>>736728756>horrible game design is bandaided with conditionals instead of balancing
>>736729814It's kino.
>>736729814This is an EO2 thing isn't it
>>736729916No it's really not, better with a sword or Fire magic or literally anything else, any RPG fan would agree>>736729948i don't know what that is
>>736729814didn't know they let you cast poison baits
>>736729948>horrifying ultimate superboss>die to some chucklefuck newcomers equipped with just a dagger
>>736728645they usually arent. especially in final fantasy.
Tactics at least fixes what feels so shitty about this, and previews the chance of things working on your target.Not knowing that, is what prevents you from ever trying it, or even pursuing the abilities in the first place.
People saying status effects cheeses bosses too much as if the alternative of just spam biggest damage attack+1 member heal bot isn't just as braindead
>>736729801Western RPGs always mogged the fuck out of Japanese ones outside of presentation.The average big enemy in bg2 is more interesting and requires far more skill/planning than super bosses in ff
>>736728645>turn based RPG>bosses are not only vulnerable to status effects but stacking them is your primary mode of offense
>>736730315its the retarded jarpiggies who are stuck in bad game design (wizardry) for decades
I always hated the design that a boss is immune to literally everything except one status at what feels like random with zero way of knowing outside of a guide (the actual reason for this design, fags loved selling official strategy guides)Making normal encounters remotely deadly I feel already makes status effects worthwhile least in those encounters like I got some good milage out of confusion in persona 4. it's just usually most random encounters is beaten by aoe slop or actual just auto attacks because they just don't have a lot of hp
>Give enemies multiple turns a round so stuns can be used but arnt gamebreaking>DOT now scale much faster because its triggering multiple times a roundIts that simple
>>736730315Having to deal with the bosses attacks is more complex than shutting down the boss, setting up to the moon and blowing it up in 2 turns. So no, it's not as braindead.
>>736728645This is why I like FFX. Bosses all the way up to god tick are usually susceptible to something.
>>736729814It's kino
If status is too good on bosses, just give them reduced effects.Having it not work at all is boring shit
>>736728756>"Because status effects make the game aspect triv-">ULTIMA>ULTIMA>DUAL MAGIC: ULTIMA, AND I CAST ULTIMA AGAIN>CURAGA
>>736730961This will never be not retarded to me.>Gets nuked>Survives because a follower helped him>Dies later anyway from radiation poisoning
>>736730858What are you talking about? I beat safer seperorth for the first time with just Regen and cure all every once in a while while the other 2 members literally auto attacked him to death.Smt4 Lucifer I beat by actually genuinely just auto attacking with the occasional heal because i realized all bosses AI are so braindead in that game that they actually only use their more unique moves if you actually bother to try to status effect/buff/debuff Smt 1/2/if are the ultimate heal auto attack games90% of jrpgs are just aoe one shot random encounters and healbot/attack bossesReally only persona mother 3 and paper mario ttyd shake anything up >Inb4 well in this insecure dogshit jrpg 7 people played it's actually totally different blah blah blahFell for that meme before, it's the same shit as dragon quest or final fantasy
>>736730193Bass are just negrofied salmon, ersatz imitations of their nord ancestors, much like the rednecks that bait them
>>736731006It's more a problem with certain kinds of status. If you just make status function more like debuffs, it works out, such as in Labryinth of Touhou. Even still that game has an interruptor but if the boss has a resistance that you can hit, the fight is usually designed to take advantage of it.
>>736730550yes man people bought guides instead of just trying the spells out in combat thats totally a real problem and reason why it was designed like that.
>>736729801There isn't a single interesting status effect or difficult boss fight in that game though, so makes for a pretty poor example.>>736730375That's absolutely not true. The only time you're going to be spending even a fraction of the time you'd spend planning/preparing for a FF Superboss would be fighting against BG2's own superbosses, with the difficulty patch on. Even then, most people just cheese them with traps. Even Demogorgon dies instantly to traps.
>>736731154Oh also add ffxi the last despite being a MMO it actually allows dedicated debuggers to shine and the game is designed around that I think dq10 does the same but I never got to high enough level to do endgame content but my warrior proccing damage down on boss enemies was fairly consistent on maze bosses
>>736730375llol
RPG game devs are usually high on their own farts and forget the player is trying to beat the game and think they want to see a party wipe because they are manually trying every status effect and wasting a ton of turns and mistake that for engagement>Just use Scan lolNobody uses scan either. They just look up a strategy guide because the dev arbitrarily shut down half your spells.>Fire elemental absorbs fireGood>Random soldier is immune to confuse because technologyOkay>Miniboss is immune to berserk because he has a scripted attack sequence where he must buff himselfHmm...>Random dark elf has a dungeon where you can't use metal equipment and have to fight him using wooden gear...>Wild critters with a smiley face can't be hit with any status effect Why devs. You know who you are.
>>736730375>Western RPGs always mogged the fuck out of Japanese ones outside of presentation.lol>The average big enemy in bg2 is more interesting and requires far more skill/planning than super bosses in ffYou literally just stack buffs and autoattack it to death like every single CRPG, especially BG clones
>>736728645>bosses are immune to status effectsTo balance bosses in a way that you don't need to use status effects.If status effects are considered towards beating bosses, imagine the raging casualfags.
>>736731313>>736731368Whatever cope I played more than enough RPGs western and Japanese and most Japanese RPGs are practically just movies with good soundtracks with a minigame where I press generic aoe attack to auto win 99% of combat,It is what it is. Bosses are just usually attack+heal until it's dead I have no idea how anyone can argue otherwise. Even modern dq games added boomarangs for martial vocations to join in on the aoe slop btw lol
>>736731368Western? Slavs are not even white.
Always strange how final fantasy only decided sometimes if an enemy weakness was shown to you with scan.Guess you gotta go fork out 30 dollars if you want to know all of them.
>>736728645>RPG/JRPG>status effects on bosses trigger enrage mechanics
>>736731154>Ruins your dayIf you didn't toad the emperor did you even beat the game?
>>736731503If your only argument is Dragon Quest you clearly haven't played more than enough of anything.>>736731545Mathfinder is a western IP and the videogames are literally just Baldur's Gate with Mathfinder's ruleset rather than 2E-5E
I never bothered to learn elemental weaknesses in any ff or dq game because the bonus is so low I don't even notice if I do hit it like we're talking a 10-25% damage increase for enemies with so little hp it's dead on one cast even without it.It's funny that people shit on Persona 3-5 gameplay pretending you don't play them for that when it mogs 99% of jrpgs in gameplayLeast enemies have health so it's actually worth while to land status effects on dangerous ones because they will survive one round of combat.Least it's noticable to land weakness hitsLeast bosses feel unique unlike most jrpgs where it's just a different state stick to whittle downAnd the persona crafting system is just fun, always was.Cope
>>736729080I don't know if I would call them "fun", as most of the time I just slapped the boss with all the status effects I could using one ability, but they certainly were rewarding.I guess stacking absurd amounts of burn was kinda fun. It's weird that I played E33 for like 80 hours and 100%'d the game but I could barely remember a single character's name.
>>736731503>modern dq
>>736728910>>Nearly no boss in the game has immunity to status ailments.Why would you lie retard? Not only are plenty of bosses immune to various statuses, but them not being weak to it puts the rates of it landing at an insignificantly low chance to begin with which is functionally the same thing unless you're some kind of retard endlessly reloading and fishing to land itStatus ailments in this game aren't even good, your options for curing them are massively cucked until the very end of the game, and multiple of them are the exact same thing "whoops 50/50 chance you lose your turn".It does poison well because posion is actually very damaging and can't be ignored, for both you and the enemies that aren't immune to it - which is only a couple of bosses - but the rest of them are pretty whack.
>>736731891>It's funny that people shit on Persona 3-5 gameplay pretending you don't play them for that when it mogs 99% of jrpgs in gameplaylel
>>736731960Literally just cope. I played a few wild arms and bof. It's boring slop made for retards that act like their too good for dq when it plays 1-1 the exact same.Modern persona mogs them to oblivion, it's why it's actually popular with actual fans instead of larpers
>>736732058jej
>>736731916Yeah starting all the way back in the snes days when they added them to begin with
>heh only dq is braindead you need to play "obscure boring ass d tier jrpg slop" >It's fuckign awful and it's still just aoe or heal/attack slopLiterally every time, I'm not doing it anymore. I fell for it every timeCold steel is fucking ass nigga Only Nintendo and atlus remotely made this genre a bit of fun in actual gameplay.
>>736731841and they wear our clothes, rap, and shit up our board. Does not cut it.
There's jrpgs>You poisoned the boss!>-10hp poison tick every turn>boss hp 9990/10000And then there's rougelikes>You poisoned the boss!>1million hp per tick>boss hp 0/200.
>>736731619Final Fantasy is plagued by dogshit design because it's a series made by idiots for idiots who want mildly interactive anime rather than RPGs.The reason why they used to have a scan spell or a bestiary is because there's no actual coherent design philosophy for enemies where you can and should infer what an enemy is strong or weak against just by looking at them.>>736732058>It's why it's actually popular with actual fans instead of larpersYou Persona "fans" are the biggest RPG LARPers of all time, which is why even the rare actual fans are very aware of this issue, especially when even among those rare fans the people who actually played Persona before P3 are an endangered species.Hell you yourself literally stick to modern Persona which makes you another one of those fucking clowns who don't play shit.
>>736732332Uh I don't play persona 1/2 becaus when I tried 2 I got really bored from its auto attack easy gameplay and a trillion random encounters.Sorry Anon I don't stick with bad video games that people only pretend to like.I finished p4 twice because it's just a great time and 3/5 once .Cope
I appreciate Mewgenics' approach at just taking all the training wheels off and letting you do basically anything.>game has a passive that makes your basic attack do no damage, but triples the status affects it applies>it's supposed to benefit the Necromancer class, which applies Leech (damages at the end of your turn and heals you for the damage delt) with your basic attack>except the passive applies to ALL your status effects>have a frankencat that, through mutations and items, applies Leech, Bleed, Poison, Bruise (increases physical damage taken) on basic attacks>these ALL get tripled due to the passive, and later on I get ANOTHER passive that makes my basic attack hit twice but do half damageI was hitting like 20 stacks of EVERYTHING, it was pretty insane. I also could link enemies together to share the damage and debuffs, so I was draining about 60 HP each round on top of crippling everything.
>>736732308That is a weird modern thing. Not sure why poison got nerfed in everything. BG3 adding 4 damage total was bizare.
>>736728645A lot of bosses in old FF games could be blinded, slowed, silenced, etc. They were only immune to the instant win status effects like petrify or stop.
>>736731934The only boss in the game who is immune to status ailments is Lucifer. Some bosses have specific immunities like Vasuki is immune to poison, but they're rare most every one only has resistance. Status ailments themselves are stat driven where demons increase their ailment efficacy by raising the luck stat higher than the enemy's luck. A lot of the high end ailment skills have 85 to 100% base efficacy on the skill. So for instance Black Rider's signature spell has 100% chance of inflicting mute, having Loa in the party also doubles efficacy rate effectively piercing resistance (and increases the length ailments are active). You can also use omagatoki HIT to force status ailments (especially effective with Virus Carrier demons), and Dekajeon to reset any gained immunity. Finally when you combine Ailment Chaser attacks and abillities, with the abillity to shut down the enemy for 2-3 full phases, you have an extremely powerful set-up. I beat the game with a status focused party, and even outside that run demons like Namah and Black Rider with high proc specials are boss killers.
>>736732436Should have gotten those on a werewolf/form of the wolf monk to stackmaxx even harder
>>736732428>Sorry Anon I don't stick with bad video games that people only pretend to like.Yet you played P4 not once but twice.Curious.
>>736728645>Some bosses are outright immune to stats alteration so you can't inflict attack or defense down on themWhy would they put this in the game? (I'm playing through DQXIS right now)
>>736729739>toothpaste boobsNah
>>736732516P4 is fucking great, what's funny is I don't need to convince people that. Most people who play it knows it's good. Hell probably going to play it a 3rd time when the remake comes out persona 2 is a game people only larp liking.Is 1 like 2? Only one I didn't try
>>736728910The superbosses are absolutely GARBAGE
>>736732515I needed some items to apply the debuffs so I don't think Monk would've worked, but that is a good idea to try later.I think sacrificing the trinket slot for Onions Milk for even more extra attacks would be the way to go.
>>736732645Considering how most people don't even play it exactly like P3 or P5 you should.Then again, somebody who thinks P4 is a good game is already beyond saving.
>>736728645they shipped FF6 with a bug that made it so that the evasion stat doesn't do anything. It has no bearing on whether you dodge or the enemy misses you.the magic eva stat affected both magic and phys. these games were quite simply not that well made. RPGmaker games have more robust combat systems than FF6 because the stats in them actually work.
Any game where's it's recommended to play in 4x speed because it's so easy and braindead like ff12 or persona 2 are bad games. No idea why this is a controversial opinion. I mean how the fuck did you convince yourself that a game you try to skip by as fast as possible is good
JRPGs were always simpler and poor imitations of CRPGs, which in turn were inspired by TTRPGs.Japs didn't want people reading a lot of systems and subsystems before playing, and thus they're easy to pick and play. But it also forces bosses and mechanics to be simplified.
>>736728645>Post FF6This is explicitly dishonest, there's plenty of fucking bosses that are weak to status ailments... For the LOVE OF FUCK USE LIBRA YOU RETARDS
>>736732745Please just as many people or even more only pretended to play persona 2, it's why the only discussion of the game is le epic hitler.
Looking for someone who is obsessed with Tifa Lockhart. Who enjoys dirty talks, sending praises, and just admiring Tifa in general. I can be your personal Tifa if I like you enough~ the more obsessed the betteradd me on discord: tifalockhart_7
>>736732779Bosses in CRPGs get shit on by status effects too if they aren't immune cause shit like paralysis is massively overpowered if it lands in a D&D based ruleset
>>736732804It doesn't matter, bosses are so pathetically weak it's actively counterproductive to use statuses on them because you can just melt them by spamming attacks/Ultima rather than wasting time hoping that a status ailment you don't even know if it can actually apply lands on them, they might as well not exist if there's no actual reason to use them.
>>736732559In DQXI case, most bosses are not immune to debuffs. But the higher up the list you get, the more resistant they get until you reach the top of the list where they start getting immunity to enforce the feeling that they not pushovers anymore.
>>736732847gay
>>736732885Crpgs are real time, if they can't act for even 10 seconds the battle is probably already over. Bg status effects actually last forever, landing chaos on a group than proceeding to whiff melee on a guy running in a circle for a good 20 seconds until he dies and he was still cc was fairly normal
>>736731154>Really only persona mother 3 and paper mario ttyd shake anything up
>>736732990Cope but that's the truth, I wish more Japs actually made good gameplay too instead of still copying game design from 40 years ago
>>736732493Brother I know how the game works, I just played it recently stop lmao. Nobody is luck dumping in order to get better status chances - literally nobody. You need to have legitimately hundreds of luck for it to make any difference at all, and the stat plays NO EFFECT in anything else, it doesn't increase crit, it doesn't increase evade, it's ass. You will not get 500+ luck in any normal playthrough, you will get like ~200 of any primary stat>this boss is immune to 4 status effects but he isn't immune to ALL OF THEM AT ONCE so he's not actually "immune"Is a retard argument. 95% of all bosses in the game have immunities to things. And as I already said, a resistance is the equivalent to an immunity in actual gameplay, you aren't landing that shit, the chances are abnormally low unless you cheat engine yourself 999 luck man.Similarly retarded argument is>if you just use no other demons of any use, do zero damage, and build an entire team that tries to do a status effect, survive long enough to get your omagatoki off, then you can land ailments on even resistant enemies and buy yourself 2 maybe 3 rounds of ailmentLike, hello? Yeah, you could. Or you could play the game, use buffs and debuffs instead, and actually just do damage and be able to heal and not have every battle take 14 weeks.And every fucking demon you use at the end fuses abyssal mask for a reason, because dealing with them is ass and it's just a coin toss if you insta lose when they land half the time, whilst no boss "insta loses" the minute you land one on them.
>>736732716Kino*. Satan especially gets the gold star, but DF and Masakados were also a lot of fun to come up with plans to take them down.
>>7367329431. It's an efficient way to deal with your enemy2. The reason people think you need to grind in JRPGs is that nobody bothers to experiment>>736733048SaGa Scarlet Grace literally mogs every single game you listed fuckwit, and the only good game you listed was Paper Mario. You're a retard who doesn't know what you're talking about.
>>736733138Never played it but I did this dance enough I know it doesn't.Sorry I'm done with the pretending the jrpg 4 people played is actually good and not just a dq clone. Old meme
>>736733069Actually Luck does increase critical rate but that calculation is the one that requires you to dump into the stat to make a real difference. Status Efficacy and Status resistance is very controllable with LCK. Also resistance is not effective immunity, it's 50%, having Loa alone nullifies it because Loa is 2x efficacy. Its not a coin flip with the right set ups, it's guaranteed ailment chance. Crippling bosses for multiple turns is 100% worth it, it fires up the rest of your party to dump on them, and that's not even taking into account ailment Chasers that are the strongest attacks in the game. Literally, Marici's signature spell on a blinded enemy is the strongest phys skill in the game.
>>736733203>Never played it but I did this dance enough I know it doesn't.Because you're a LARPing false flagging shit head, your opinion is worthless. Hell, even FF13, the game that everyone claims played itself, has deeper, more challenging combat than all of Persona and any fucking Mother game.
>>736733429Anon have this discussion with me from 7 years ago. Whatever you post I know plays like dogshit and is really boring.I had this exact discussion dozens of times in my life being led to some retarded mind numbing jrpg nobody played or talked about for a good reason after you fags have a meltdown seething that this genre isn't mostly shit.Not falling for it again.
>>736732559Debuffs are way more reliable than buffing yourself in lategame DQ cause bosses tend to spam that buff removal ability. There was a stretch of games where the final bosses were immune to almost everything but they reeled that back a bit in later games and remakes.I know in 11 you can Sleep or Poison basically every boss so knife builds can actually work although the chances are low on some of them. DQ1-3 remakes you can use Sleep on all the final bosses, chance isn't great but it can buy you a turn or two.
I remember this guy beating ffx and getting really excited about the post game content only to eat shit a dozen times and coping he just needs to find a strategy.No dude you need to just go grind for 20-30 hours uniorionically it's just a numbers game and the final boss of x is like easier than the first monster arena boss lmao
>>736732436this only works because nothing is permanent in it and even when you consider that the game kinda starts falling apart when you get into deep breeding.
>>736728910>Best JRPG battle system everI think FFXI despite being an MMO is better.
>enter jrpg thread based on a false trope>nu-persona fag praising gameplayjesus fucking christ, man.
>>736733752Xi design was really really good. Pretty much every spell worked on almost everything except things that wouldn't make sense like sleeping undead and it just came down to elemental affinities and skill requirements, hyper gear optimization. it had separate timers for higher resistant enemies.I think because square wanted every player to feel powerful since you were only one character and rdms wouldn't feel that powerful if none of their spells worked on shit you would actually use It on.T. Played whm/blm for 400 hours T. Also the persona 4 fag in this thread Only if the rest of the series took things from xi, like an expanded skill chain/magic burst system that enforced a reason to do multiple chains would be a lot of fun in a standard jrpg
>>736728645Status effects are useful in Dragon Quest, Megaten, Pokémon, anything else.Early FFs just had awful programming.
>>736732804If you wanna get nitpicky every boss is weak to Charm cause the devs forgot the players could get it via Gau so they never made anything immuneBut it obviously wasn't intended
>>736733902Keep coping, least I don't have to pretend to actually like dogshit lmao imagine sucking off persona 2 of all things. A literal auto battler you should emulate just to have a fast forward button it's so fucking boringLike im going to take my gaming opinion from you lol
>>736733138It's not really efficient at all, I mean you played SSG so you should know.Take Magic Master, even if you put aside how it's a palette swap of an earlier boss (Number 024) that has a completely different weakness how do you exactly know what he's immune or weak to? You don't, you can't really guess efficiently either.Since FF6 has no enemy typing you can't use that as a primer, given he uses only spells people can either infer he's immune or weak to Silence, or since he's a Number 024 clone some will think Sleep works, both are wrong since its only status weakness is Berserk, and while it sorta makes sense since he only uses spells most people don't even try to do that because outside of previous bosses sharing the same fundamental issue simply casting reflect on your party members is enough to ignore everything he does outside of the suicide Ultima, the rest is just spamming attacks and healing, maybe.Meanwhile in something like SSG enemies follow rules based on their type so people can reliably guess what might or might not work by simply looking at them on top of the game explicitly telling you what they're immune to whenever you try to apply a status, just in case some enemies like earth golems might mislead you on some possible status applications, plants are immune to mind type ailments like confusion, undeads can't be poisoned etc, it's coherent and logical which encourages using statuses.Unlike FF6 where you also don't have any need to plan around resources the system is specifically designed around tight resource management which makes status effects incredibly useful by design, a single poison or paralysis proc is enough to immediately win a fight, or lose it if it lands on you, and unlike FF6 you can build characters around status infliction, which further emphasizes the importance of statuses.
>>736734065they are EXTREMELY useful in early FF.slow alone is a game changer.
My ff6 playthrough was take a few steps get into combat press aoe button cast strongest spell I have battle over in .2 secs repeat 300 times until I got a boss where I just spammed strongest spell 3x while someone healed.Why are we pretending this was good gameplay? Even before you have the strongest spells you just used edgar crossbow and sabin fire monk thing instead.Great game, not for the gameplay
For crpgs and maybe jrpgs, each status effect should be two layers. Like Poison becomes Toxic, Singed becomes Immolated, Cold becomes Frozen, etc.Make bosses often immune to the more severe form except in some gimmick cases.
I feel like you guys overthink things. Every turn you cast slow and it fails to land which is pretty often is a turn you could have just done more damage and ended the fight faster I figured this out when I was like 6. And standard enemies die in spell or 1-auto attacks why are you even bothering to use status effects on them. Just attack
>>736734420I think that could be pretty fun. I like it when you're incentivized for continuously applying the ailment.
In this game you're obligated to use status effects on bosses or you lose.
>>736734708Is it hard?
>>736734465The problem is much more complicated than that.Slow failing to land a couple of times isn't an issue in itself, the problem is>Slow itself doesn't really have big enough returns to justify its use>You can't reliably tell when it can or cannot land>You have Haste anyway which is just reverse slow for your entire party, never fails to land and has enormous returns because three/four/five party members>>>one slow enemy>Some games can give you access to easy mass Haste>Enemies are simply too weak and simple to bother on top of it all so why even wonder about itOf course you can also have the opposite problem, see SMT1 where Nerve Bullets/Bind Voice/Zio/Bufu spam is the meta because basically nothing down to Michael is resistant to stun/paralysis and can be shut down effortlessly and then autobattle'd to death
>>736734865Yes, ideally there is a balance between these systems, enemies have qualities that are difficult to deal with conventionally but may be easy to deal with if you ail them, some enemies are highly resistant to being shut down but might not be that strong otherwise, bosses incentivize utilizing varying debuffs and ailments over the course of the game, that sort of thing.
>>736734496I agree. They could even have different threshold values of application.
>>736734420Old SaGa games used to do that for things like confusion but the stacks don't effectively lead to more interesting or balanced gameplay.
WOW I POISONED A BOSS AND IT TAKES A LITTLE DAMAGE EACH TURN THIS IS SO FUN AND TACTICAL
>>736736365It is though, for long haul battles.
>>736730309Playing through Xenogears right now and the game not providing any timers or hp bars or any valid info for anything just makes the game a lot less interesting than it could have been, and not only is the game braindead and just a dps check every time, instead of providing some sort of gimmick so you need to do to vary up what you do on boss fights. And not just that, but most enemies are resistant to Ether attacks, so they do jack shit damage unless you have some lategame build after 60h that double your magic output. Really just forcing my way through it on turbo mode with random encounters every five feet walked and it's STILL a fucking slog, the encounters are so brain dead you just spam the same attack every time with the exception of one or two late gimmick late game enemies, one zombie you heal and one you have to kill with ether so it's just a complete time waster. I fucking WISH I was in FF-land with status effects at this point, can't believe people praise this game to high heaven and above FF, in terms of gameplay it's clearly not. "hurr durr it's about the story", go watch a movie then, having it attached to this much shitty combat is not acceptable, you guys have no taste.
>>736736952yeah xenogears has absolute dogshit gameplay. one of the worst I have ever experienced in a jrpg.worst of all is that they put all the effort into the EPIC combo system and none of it matters.
>>736736952Most jrpgs are really bad, it's a classic meme to pretend that actually this unpopular one is le different and kino when it's just more of the same.
If all powerful beings could be killed with basic status ailment spells someone else would have already done it.It's the same reason you don't expect a boss to be killed by a starting dagger.It would be a cool thing still if you play so well that you can but usually in rpgs that's just exploits and unlike action games, is not about skill.
>>736736952>And not just that, but most enemies are resistant to Ether attacks, so they do jack shit damageThis is why bosses in jrpgs are simplified. Any semblance of statistical mechanics are ignored b players and the just complain about the game being unfair.AND THEN when said players get told how to play the game the call it a cheese because the realize how fucking easy it is if you have half a brain. It's a cheese! Having a functional brain is a cheese!
>>736728645>he doesn't invest into resistances for all the insta loss bullshitThat's why you're not the boss.
>>736728645this game has tons of exploits though, it's pure b a l a n c e
>>736737229oneshotting everything after just equipping one item you just buy from the store is in fact not high iq gameplay you third world monkey.
>>736734858Some of the chars will make you hard.Having played all 3 games myself I would not consider the games hard.
>>736737109wrong. most jrpgs are really good.
>>736737345Too bad. I got a similar answer last time I asked about this game. It always interested me as more of CyberConnect but I also never liked that studio much for their gameplay.
>>736737428Just not true, wish it was. I like good video game. Jrpg was the slop genre any d tier studio made in the 5th-6th genre before generic military shooters became the thing to rip off
>>736734420divinity series does this more or less by having status effects that can become cursed
>>736737529fuck off retard
>>736737597Divinity fucked it up by making cursed fire easily spread but no good counter. DOS1 had some interesting shit and then they decided to go way too far in DOS2. Classic blunder.
>>736729801I haven't played this since release but just remember it as one of the best experiences I've had and always thought it mogged so many games with its combat, where you could have very lethal and debilitating spells but still have the game be hard. I'm afraid to revisit the game now though and find out it's actually bad or something. I've played BG 1&2 since then, and while 2 especially is amazing in many ways, I found the pre-buffing of a million buffs to be very obnoxious and a heavy crutch that the game leans on a lot, which DA Origins didn't have, which I appreciated.Is DA:O still the gold standard for combat or has BG3 surpassed it? Haven't played the latter.
>>736737727Their are literal 100s of terrible jrpgs on PS1/2. It was the slop genre, why do you think RPGmaker got pumped out. Any retard can make a jrpg. I'm sorry you only got exposed to the more known ones
>>736738039fuck off retard
>>736737889i think it's also the nature of action economy, an enemy can just drop 2-3 status effects on you and then toss curse. same kind of thing happens in ffxii because enemies have multiple effects that proc on hit
>>736738065Cope fag a lot of the "good ones" are bad and Im sick of your memes.
>>736738105damn you are the persona subhuman
>>736737323>Learns mechanics>Now feels like an idiot for not knowing about it>It's not that special at all! Cope, retard. You're just that stupid.
>>736738123Lol yeah I didn't remotely hide dumbass. Sorry you're games are fucking trash, and you need only pretend to like them. I'm not 17 anymore and having nothing to prove, persona 4 is a more fun video game than 99% of its genre moment to moment. Go ahead and post some PS1 dq clone that falls apart in 20 mins tho
>>736737021It's so unintuitive too. You're supposed to spam random attacks that do a fraction of the combos in order to unlock said combos. And this will be most ofthe game, just doing subpar damage with basic animations, in order to unlock new combos that do a lot more damage and super cool animations that are so plentiful that they must have spent a million years creating all these flashy cool animations, but you're only supposed to use them on harder encounters, it's so fucking weird. Also the naming schemes make it really hard to remember what element each attack does since it's just random jap gibberish. I've never played a game that hides so much info for the player in order to just appear more complex I guess, but just not benefitting from it at all. I suppose there's maybe some idea there that the most hardcore of players can remember all the combos and what they do and sit and calculate how long buffs last and all this, but really it just makes the game more obtuse and all their time spent on these elaborate animations is wasted. Why not just unlock combos by doing the combos you already have? What a weird system.
>>736728645>use status effects on bosses in SMT>they remove them and/or punish you for using them
>>736738197spic
>>736738298Smt4 bosses only auto attack if you don't use status or buffs. The game actually punishes you for trying to play smarter, it's far easier to just auto attack and heal
>>736738337SMT 4 is the odd man out in that it's just poorly designed in general, sure you can force the enemy to just attack but your skills deal so much damage/enemies have such little HP you are likely to kill every boss after Medusa in two turns.
>>736737229>have fighter and mage characters in the game>all trash mobs are resistant to magic so your mages end up just spamming basic attacks just like your fighters, turning the game into spam basic combos for hundreds of encounters>uh this is an example of good complexity actuallyyou're retarded
>rpg/jrpg>undead die when you cast revive on them
>>736738634It's neat but I wish it only did massive damage instead of outright kill. Entire bosses in every ff game is deleted with x potions that they might as well just not exist from how easy it is. It's not like you get an x potion 3 mins into the game for a boss 7 hours later. Usually they put one in the same area as the big undead boss as a wink
>>736738634kino
>>736738734FF games come with so many bosses I dont think its that bad when you can just dab on a few of them with soulful stuff like this.
>>736738824It's certainly memorable. I still remember being a dumb kid and getting stuck in FFX against Seymour's dragon thing and killing one of its phases with a Phoenix Down.
>>736728910Status ailments are still "why didn't I just use an attack" tier in V though. Even if you manage to land an ailment (very hard outside of early game) they slide off within a single enemy round and then become increasingly harder to land. Most of the game you're way better off getting the guaranteed and longer lasting boon of killing the enemy as it's been debuffed to take more damage and deal less. By the time you get to enemies where you'd really want to skip turns ala the super bosses, they're functionally immune. Etrian Odyssey post 2 had a way better balance of difficulty to inflict and return on statuses. In V and VV it takes 10 turns on average to land any ailment the enemy isn't weak to and you'll be lucky if it doesn't instantly cure itself.
>>736738989there are many cool examples that trivialize bosses.like casting float on the brothers fight in FF8 to interrupt the ground healing.
>>736728756>atma>gauntlet>offeringff6 is a very serious game so we shouldn't have status effects
>>736737889I dunno how it is now but at launch in DOS2 you could cheese the shit out of a lot of fights in return with two fast characters with Superconductor, since it used to gain extra range from various sources and two hits with lightning was a guaranteed stun, or one hit on a wet floor.The constant cursed fire spam did get really fucking old though since all it took was some fire overlapping cursed blood and every enemy sprays out cursed blood fucking everywhere.
Are there any JRPGs where the combat is one of the selling points or are they all trash? You'd think that a turn-based system with status effects could be made into something great. I enjoyed my time in Darkest dungeon a lot despite being a fairly simple system, but had enough to it with the positioning and tradeoffs that it made me question why jrpgs are so fucking bad at this 99% of the time.I remember FF X having really great bosses and that the trash mobs while braindead had a nice gimmick of rock paper scissors with being vulnerable to certain attacks, which felt comfy to go through, I think there is value to having easy combat in certain sections where you kind of just cruise through it and just enjoy a chill time, but it has to have something to it, even if it's just a repeated pattern like Wakka on flyers, it can't just be deplete hp>next. Another big elephant in the room is to just not have so many random encounters. JRPGs are insane in how much they pad already long games with it.Just cut the encounters in half and have the game be 20h shorter, it's fine jesus.
>>736739073>Accursed Poison broke V so fucking hard that it was the only thing that got nerfed in VVLmao
>status effects are all just different flavors of DoT or stun
>>736739108One NPC comes out of the dungeon randomly and nonsensically screaming about how she should've used FLOAT.It's less of a "fun secret" and more of a very badly told tip for the player, almost breaking the fourth wall.
>>736739210>blow an entire magatsuhi bar to... poison the enemy, wow sometimes even mute it for half a turnAccursed Poison didn't even need to be touched for VV because they finally gave us other shit worth using.
>>736739073>Etrian Odyssey post 2 had a way better balance of difficulty to inflict and return on statuses.Etrian Odyssey is actually why I came around to disliking how Atlus deals with statuses because the logical extension of them are hyperoffensive parties that don't actually interact with the enemies. It throws out a big chunk of the fundamentals of JRPG gameplay. But it's cool that the option exists, I guess.
>>736739148The Dragon Quest games released since 11 have pretty nice hardmodes.
>>736739129combat is pretty much totally broken if you use consumables
>>736739280You only ever use float like once a game, its easy to forget it exists. People acting like 8 is cooler than it was, is par for the course
>>736728645>JRPG>bosses announce which status effects they are immune to at the start of the battle so you know not to waste your time trying them
>>736739073Well, like I said I disagree having beaten the game with status ailments themed party and LCK spec MC. Also Mute locking DF is still the optimal legit strategy, and while Satan's special abillity punishes you for casting an ailment, he's not immune and can be ailment locked AND you can abuse the counter for building Magatsuhi. Only Masakados actively discourages you from running an ailment build and that's just because his gimmick is having a gazillion turns.
>>736728645I can think of a few reasons.
>>736739390DQ is like this mythical impenetrable series to me that hasn't culturally broken through to the west that I have never tried, maybe I should, looks cool enough.
>>736739148There's many, but if you liked DD or FFX specifically you should move onto the SaGa games and their clones/spiritual successors
>>736739325You have no idea what you're talking about. Accursed was so broken in V that it would cripple 90% of the bosses for multiple turns and make them completely free.
>>736739536Based. These games need to stop hiding behind obscurity and just hand all info to the players and then from there make challenging encounters, instead of using it as a crutch where the "challenge" is to waste turns learning it. Every time there's a Scan ability and a turn order list and stuff like that, the game is just plain better since it requires the devs to step up to where the player now is with their knowledge. You can't be tactical as a player if you don't know what the fuck is going on and have that be the game.
>>736731503Aren't WRPGs usually "Cast Haste + Armor and multistrike autoattack anything to death" regardless unless you start learning instant death tier magic?
>>736739329I think with EO it's mainly because blind and binds are so overpowered compared to the rest of the ailments. >sleepFree turns until you hit the enemy, and a damage multiplier on that hit. Good but blind's accuracy drop is high enough that it effectively does the same job, and binds outright shut down attacks.>poisonNot as good now that boss HP values have gotten so high, but still great for regular encounters.>panicBasically a worse sleep/blind, you still have to take a basic attack each turn.>paralyze/fearPretty much the same ailment, 50% chance to fail an action, but a guaranteed failure is better than a chance.>curseEffectively an enemy only ailment outside of 2U where curse works even when a party member dies.
V had such extreme level scaling that the game broke if you just leveled up like 3 times.It's just not a good game lol
>>736739645it's the stingest grindy franchise but the games are fun
>>736739946EOV had the bright idea of making the superboss susceptible to Sleep, as a result just about any party can walk in with Sleep Gas, put him to sleep, then explode the poor guy in one turn since they don't have to worry about wasting slots, points or gear on defenses.
>>736739763This, the original version of Accursed Poison in V was the strongest Magatsuhi skill and basically easy mode. It's still one of the better ones in VV, you just can't abuse it without Dekajeon. In VV i think Hit is actually functionally better, since can still have a demon force Mute with the 200% buff, and it gives you the accuracy buff as extra and counts as an active skill so it activates stuff like Feast. Pairing it with a Virus Carrier is fun
>>736739645DQ11's normal mode is piss easy and everything dies way too quick but Draconian mode changes most enemy behavior so its not just a raw stat boost or needing to grind 3x as much like a Fatlus RPG hardmode.Pretty sure all of the remakes for the older games that have come out recently included it too.The older games have a few notorious difficulty spikes but half of them are a stat checks and the other half stop being hard if you remembered to get a group heal along the way.
>being upset that the insta-death time stop hyper doom spells don't work on bossesIf it worked then it wouldn't be much of a boss. Deal with it.
>get your burn/sink/rupture stack to maximum>laugh as enemies melt in to goo when the dot ticksstatus effects can be really bustedthen on the other side of the playing field you have gameplay systems like pathfinder where you just spend 10 minutes pre-buffing and melt an encounter and if you didn't prebuff yup that's a reload
>>736739940Usually it's removal of his defense, buffing your attacks, than multi attacking him to death with spell casters casting support spells/fighters sucking down potionsJrpgs is cast haste and press auto attack with the occasional cure or Regen if it's a really "hard" battle Wrlgs have their own cheese of course like any game with a lot of moving parts like it is true that theif traps do insane damage
>>736728829>ff6 has a ton of bosses that can be cheesed if you know which status effect they're vulnerable toThis, status effects are actually pretty useful in 6. Using berserk in the Fanatic's Tower is nice too. The bigger problem with status effects than them not working on bosses, is that even with bosses it can feel like a waste of time setting the status. Those turns trying to land it are wasted damage, so unless the hit rate is near 100% or the effect is really devastating, there's rarely a reason in RPGs to use status effects. Though a lot of games will have a boss or two that's vulnerable to a crippling weakness. In FFVII you can even take out Ruby Weapon easily by paralyzing him.
>>736740168Prebuffing is an abhorrent concept that should not exist in an RPG. That's what passives are for.
>>736731368Even if it's mostly autoattack and buffs, western rpgs having positioning as a default and realtime placed enemies just add a ton of complexity and varietythat jrpgs don't have right out the gate, not to mention not wasting your time with lengthy animations, trash can often be cleared within seconds in crpgs. Scouting ahead with your rogue, dropping a fireball ahead of time and backstabbing a mage in BG in one go is already a million times more engaging than any jrpg encounter, with the exception of that one in a million gimmick boss with multi phases and status effects.
>>736740381If it doesn't have a grid, it's slop.
>>736740381True, I wish the Japanese just gave crpg design least a single try. Switch 2 has mouse support now, and a rtwp game using a final fantasy job/sub job system would go crazy
>>736739329Hyper offense is the go to for all newer atlus titles though. You burn out your resources trying to take your time. >>736739552>Also Mute locking DF is still the optimal legit strategy,Maybe if you have max luck mc or something which I admittedly never tried, Ive seen the infliction rates on my demons enough to know that I'd never rely on my robustly observed 1/10 chance to land a status on demi fiend during that crucial turn. >SatanI very quickly ditched any attempt to ailment him, again I assume you need to stack luck mc and loa to even have a chance. It's incredibly inconsistent and I have a hard time believing that the ailments last long enough for anything approaching a lock, because my other robust observation is that my 10 turns of attempts result in 2 press turns Max of return.>>736739946Panic is the best, you're crazy anon. Regular enemy attacks don't do enough for your party to care outside of maybe the first game. Panic completely shuts down any enemy gimmick while blind can still result in being hit (especially with aoe) AND does nothing to stop the enemy's own status moves.
>>736740465there's no need, western crpgs are just sloppy tactical rpgs and the nips already have a bunch of those.
Statuses are fucking busted in the latest Dragon Quest Monsters since you can have passives that cut immunity to just a 25% chance to resistIf you put War Cry on a Leopold most enemies never get a turn
>>736740381Positioning in CRPGs doesn't matter, it's just pointless bloat, the only subgenre where orthodox positioning actually matters is traditional roguelikes, everything else is just layers of busywork that are only there for midwits to pretend they're more intelligent than they actually are>dropping a fireball ahead of time and backstabbing a mage in BGYou don't need to do anything of the sort, BG can be solo'd by a berserker PC that does nothing but Rage and then click on enemies, wizards can haste themselves and then micro abuse, anything with a bow just stands still and kill stuff before they can even reach them.
>>736740465A couple of the super robot wars games had distance based movement and attacking instead of a grid but they were sloppily executed at best
>>736736952>>736738295I did enjoy Xenogears but I also think it's vastly overrated. The combat SUCKS, as you said, and deathblows aren't interesting enough to redeem it. Ether Doublers break the game and the only non-attack that matters is Bart's Wild Smile skill that drops accuracy
>>736740127If only that strawman was true, in reality it's >damn, this heavy hitter boss is depleting me too fast, let me remove some rounds by casting Sto-IMMUNE>damn, this boss has heavy physical and elemental magic resist, let me try and use armorpen for the fighters, and for mages, lets try and whittle it down with dots, lets cast poiso-IMMUNE>damn, this boss casts out huge spells, let's turn them back on itself, even if it has high mr, some extra damage can't hurt, lets cast reflec-IMMUNE >let me try this one because it seems fun, even if it won't do much, lets cast berser-IMMUNE
>>736728645>That one weapon from FF4 that has a 2% chance to instantly turn any HP bar including bosses into a random single digit number It's cool when it goes against the trend. Kain may be a bitch but lance are cool
>>736740973Only game I can think of where Reflect isn't allowed to work is a few bosses in SMT that sperg out if you have too many reflects or immunities active
>>736740973Play FF5
Dark Souls solves this by giving bosses status buildup bars so that status effects actually work on them without trivializing fights too much
>>736728806Status effects are worthless in 95+% of JRPGs because trash enemies can just be killed with your sword and everything else is immune.
>>736739946Not that related, I do like how EO does buffs and debuffs in the sense of 3 slots for your party and enemy, and buffs generally nullify debuffs and vice versa. There still is buff/debuff stacking and it is useful, but you can’t just stack literally every buff and every debuff under the sun and the nullification makes things feel more interactive.
>>736740765>gear dungeon>go through shitty labyrinthian hallways with identical assets and no minimap to guide you>get to the progression point and 15min cutscene starts>Gear HP at 30%, fuel at 30%>only way to get around this is reload and flee from every enemy encounter so you can turn up to the boss in fighting shape
>>736741272There's a lot of shit in the Souls games that are immune to basic statuses and gimmicky shit like Madness hardly works on anythingBut there's so many bosses that you'll at least find something your build works on somewhere.
>>736741283Yeah EO's buff system is really really good. I wish more games used that kind of limited system.
>>736741272souls games have been busted since the beginning
>>736741272Souls still have immunities, and you can't see the boss's status bars to know if it's working so you still have to just try it out for a bit and see if it activates eventually
>>736728806DQ solved it 35 years ago but for some reason it's the one part that almost no one copies.Bosses get multiple turns which means they tick the counter on status effects down faster too, instead of it being 5 rounds it lasts for 5 actions. A confuse spell might last for 3-5 rounds on a normal enemy but a boss will stop hitting themselves halfway into their second round since they act more often. Not so devastating to the boss that they have to make everything completely immune and a couple turns where you aren't getting spammed with firebreath is still useful.
>>736741848there are visual cues and sound effects when status procs
>>736728756The obvious answer to that is to make bosses immune to ONLY "stun"-type status effects to prevent stunlocking.Follow that up with giving DoT effects a ceiling so your "lose 1/10th hp per turn" formula only does a bonus 1,000 damage per turn instead of 50,000, and make those status effects cure themselves after X turns so the player can't lame out bosses with DoT.Bonus points if the boss interacts uniquely with specific status effects, like how Monoliths in EBF respond to being silenced with a strong physical telefrag move that can revenge kill your mage
>>736740973That's not true at all.
>>736740414>>736740671Are tactical jrpgs like FF tactics really that much better than the regular jrpg stuff? I'm thinking of giving it a go. >>736740695Just the wizard microing you talk about is more involved and varied moment to moment than any jrpg static slop random encounter, It can always be better, but you for sure naturally kite and use sightlines and maximize distances in bg. As with any game you can of course bring only mage-fighters with stoneskin or whatever and be super op, but your average dude playin the game and varying up the party with rouges and the like (which you'd likely do for utility) you'll still get a more involved experience. Do I wish it was not mostly cheese in those games and actualy balanced tactical encounter swith smart AI? Yes, but the cheese and abusing the ai and getting the drop on enemies is still better than jrpgs.
>>736740973stone would literally break any boss fight instantly.generally terrible post.do you get all of your game knowledge from twitter?
>>736742465You can try Fire Emblem.
>>736742284When it procs. Not when it's applying. It can take multiple shots of say the poison spell before the boss actually procs poison. Meanwhile if they're immune there's no feedback that you're poison isn't applying
>>736742465valkyria chronicles is a fun hybrid if you don't go all in
>>736742590Most bosses will die before you apply a certain status effect anyway, if they're vulnerable.Frostbite was one exception because it really got bosses easily in DS3, when it was possible.And Elden Ring made everything except for Madness stick and work frequently.
>>736739627Pretty much. Obviously SMT1's shock status is a bit extreme example but there's no interesting gameplay decision to be made if you can stunlock everything.
>>736742465>Just the wizard microing you talk about is more involved and varied moment to moment than any jrpg static slop random encounterNo it's not, lmaoCasting haste and then running around retards while something like Scorching Ray is active is not only boring, it breaks the game mechanically, your low standards=/=JRPGs bad
>>736742590i'm gonna check when i get home, i've been throwing dung for a long time lol
>>736739536lame
SMT can't really afford to let you completely assfuck bosses with status since press turns already let you shave off 3+ turns from boss fights in a lot of cases if you have the correct immunities, the whole system is very swingy by design
>>736742437Shaking your head and wondering why enemies are immune to seemingly trivial status effects when you try and do something interesting for once instead of just spamming attacks and high damage spells is a universal experience. >>736742509I meant to say slow, not stop or stone. Obviously those are part of the insta-win effects that the boss is immune to for good reason.
>>736739479FF8 is super cool.
Etrian Odyssey tried to solve Petrification but they just made it another stun.
>>736739280the obvious hint is that you can cast float on yourself to avoid their earth attack.but the actual secret is that you can cast it on them to neuter their healing.
If we’re emphasizing strategy, great turn-based RPG boss fights should be like puzzles. You know you can’t just mash the boss to win, and that healing will eventually be outpaced when the boss starts dipping into their more lethal attacks. What do you do? So you start to look through items or magic that can afflict certain status ailments. Some might work, some might backfire. Bonus points if it’s programmed in for the boss to have an interaction with the status ailment in a way that it wouldn’t for most enemies. Maybe it makes one attack weaker or even heals your party so it frees up a party member to do something else. So they cast a reflect spell on themselves or the party and then the boss’ next spell weakens its protective shell and now it’s open to physical attacks. I’m just spitballing, something like that.I’m also open to action RPGs and Punch-Out type battles that require lightning fast reflexes. The enemy can be attacked, but counters (not parries) can start to build on the enemy’s stagger meter, the bonus being extra damage when the stagger bar is full. FF7 Rebirth was really fun about that.
>>736728645Hax abilities only work on beings weaker than you. Beings stronger than you will overwhelm your magic with their aura. This is the logic that 99% of fictional universes use. You can hate it, b8lut that s how it is.
>>736740765Im at the point where I can buy ether doublers on disc1 and I dont even care anymore I pretty much want to skip all the combat at this point.
>sleep isn't worthless enough even when most actually threatening things are categorically immune>make it a "damage type" that doesn't actually deal hp damage, but has no effect until you build up an arbitrarily large enough amount of it to temporarily stun an non-boss enemy>taking actual damage still breaks them out of sleep and clears sleep damage progress if they're still awake
>>736743521when sleeping enemies are woken they should start with slow applied for one (1) turn
>>736742625Love that game.>>736742540Will take a closer look but I always had the assumption that those games didn't have much of a story and that the permadeath was just kind of a meme that didn't affect anything in the story. But purely for combat maybe they're good. >>736742823What jrpgs would you recommend that are better in terms of gameplay your opinion? I'm trying to make a list.
>>736728645I'm not sure how I even feel about status effects. They're a staple of rpgs but it's not fun to miss your attacks, hurt yourself in confusion, continually take poison damage, ect. And as OP mentioned, a lot of rpgs don't let you have fun yourself on the enemies that really matter.
>>736742685Elden Ring is the only souls game where Statue Ailment builds are actually feasible and not situational gimmicks.
>>736739763>for multiple turnslolLmao evenIf rather use my magatsuhi bar to deplete 50+% of the enemy health than buy myself half a turn of mild inconvenience for the enemy
>>736743390I must have missed that vendor, that sucks. I was hoping to at least make Elly a powerhoue so her spells are actually useful instead of just doing combos like everyone else. Started disc 2 just now. Not like it matters though, just differentiating the cast a little bit would be nice thematically at least.
>>736731006Give each boss a unique effect from each status tailored not to be OP or useless
>>736744020Let me guess, you think shitty ass Omagatoki:Crit is the best one.
>>736734065I replayed FF7 recently, even there the status effects like poison can fuck up everything
>>736744973>Hades-Added Effectgaming time
>>736734065>Slow>FF2 in general>FF5's mystic knight and 100% status >Stop and Toad beating some of the hardest random fights in FF4>status spellblades in 5
>>736728756That's just because the combat system is poorly designed and poorly balanced. You could make a combat system where status effects or debuffs are viable against everything, including bosses, without making the game trivial.
>>736745307Nah. The boss should be heavily resistant/immune to the lmao I win statuses.
You can say the same thing about item usage.How do you even balance around that? The boss has a chance to slap the potion out of your hand and you miss a turn?
>>736746842>How do you even balance around that?Just don't have items bro it's not hard
>>736746842Carry limits per item or limited battle inventory (Dragon Quest/Earthbound)
>>736746842Items are balanced by being consumable you dimwit.
>>736746842The only thing that sucks is that offensive items always feel like ass. I get they need to balance out the fact that anyone can use them, but most of the time I avoid using any item that does shit like ice damage to a group or paralyze enemies because they barely do anything.
>>736728645>FFVI>Equip Ribbon>Immune to almost all status effectsAnd so can the player. Your point?
>>736728645Part of what makes FF5 Four Job Fiesta runs so much fun is just how many bosses are vulnerable to different status effects. It's so cool to be able to cast dark spark on an enemy to half their level that then makes them vulnerable to level 5 death. Little strategies like that exist throughout the entire game
>>736732716That's SMT in general desu... My worst experience was in the Strange Journey 3DS port where you have a series of superbosses that you need perfectly manipulated stats, levels and skills for each one or they'll just nuke you for not following the rules. You couldn't naturally make a party to fight them, it basically requires you to use a fusion calculator to print a code to buy your demons for it.
>>736744209its in the regular store in the church town after you get the water sandshipbasically bullshit without a warning.
>>736745676That's just trash game design from people who have no idea what they're doing. To be fair if it's in one of the earlier RPGs then it's excusable since the genre was in its infancy. It also usually makes status effects not worth pursuing as a build in general, because the trash mobs are going to be too trash to be worth casting on 99% of the time anyway. So if the status effects aren't useful in boss battles which may actually last long enough to be worth it then they're just practically worthless and may as well not exist in the game because they're just traps for noobs to dump their points into for no actual benefit.
>>736728645Most JRPGs are just poor reimplementations of Wizardry and Ultima at the end of the day
>>736728734>Beware that you lose out on some great items this way IIRCOnly with the Bahamut magicite if you X-Zone Doom Gaze/Deathgaze. I don't recall any other items you could lose.
>>736747713Strange Journey didn't give bosses extra turns iirc, which is odd even outside of SMT, so the only way to make anything actually hard was for them to hit like trains on their one turn.
>>736746842I just made all items the Estus Flask in my game. Solves basically all issues with players not using consumables, you just can't use them as filler loot anymore.>have X item points, increased from finding upgrade material>using an item costs Y points, depending by item>points refill each checkpoints>unlock items by finding recipes>passive skill and gear for more item effects, chance to not spend points, regain points on some condition, etc.>rogues have skills that scale with these item effects like caltrops or so smoke bombsI know it's basically just a MP pool shared by the party, but the game doesn't have normal MP and when it works, it works.
>>736745676Then there is no point to having I-win statuses to begin with, since anything that isn't a boss can simply be killed. And if you add enemies that need to be "I-win"-statused in order to be defeated, you are just creating the problem to the solution, which is backwards and retarded, game design wise. I think a better way to balance them would be, to make powerful magic actually come at a price. A spell that permanently stops time for an enemy, effectively killing them, or a straight up killing curse shouldn't be an ordinary spell that anyone can just learn from a book or by reaching level x. The player should have to make sacrifices to attain such magic. Have such powerful spells prepared via a very expensive ritual, and only be usable once per ritual. Require a deal with a devil to attain it, but you have to fight him later for your soul, and of course he is immune against his own magic, so you have to fight him proper. Maybe the spell is weak initially and has to be build up to reach full potential. Final Fantasy IX had such spells. Zidanes thievery grew stronger through stealing, Freya had a similar skill that became more powerful with each dragon killed, Quina has that frog spell, that is more powerful the more frogs you catched. They are all just damage spells, but something similar could be done with status spells, so that when you finally use them against that one powerful foe, it feels actually earned when you fuck him over with it. Overpowered stuff is not the problem in my opinion, the problem is often that it is just way too fucking easy to use or get your hands on.
>>736728645This isn't even true in most games. Yes, they might be immune to something like Poison or Mute or Berserk, but not ALL bosses will be immune to everything. Using FF6 as an example. The Magi Master is immune to Mute, but can be Berserked, meaning he will attack you with his pitiful physical attack instead of his awesome Magic. The boss at the end of the Minecart ride can be poisoned and is really weak to Bio. You are supposed to try out various Status and see what works and what doesn't. Only really shit games like to just make bosses immune to all status ailments.
>>736746842>Limited inventory>Attacks that destroy one or multiple random items>Items being stolen.Easy
>>736746842>The boss has a chance to slap the potion out of your hand and you miss a turn?This would be an amazing 'fuck you' moment. Someone needs to do this.
>>736728645picture unrelated, in FF6 most bosses had weakness to a specific status effect that could be exploited
>>736728645I like how Dark Souls and Monster Hunter handled statuses.>status attacks do points of status build-up>once status built reaches a cap, enemy is inflicted with the ailmentIn MH specifically>small pool of ailments with each having a clear use and suite of monsters that are weak to them.
>>736746842I liked the Legend of Dragoon approach, basically limited inventory space plus 99% of the items are useful as healing and attack items
>>736748495>Then there is no point to having I-win statuses to begin withYeah, basically. I think a lot of these overkill status effects like Stop or Slow were carried over from tabletop-like games that were about long-term resource management. Any big spell you used was a tool from your toolbox gone for a good while. You can't keep using these if the cost is only some MP that players can hoard in form of 99x mana potions.If you want an I-win status it needs to come with massive investment, like for example the summons from Golden Sun: Using them takes a resource that recharges over multiple turns while you are in a lower tier class, missing a bunch of stats and spells. So now there is a big risk attached, but still you'd want the status to be a I-probably-win. Of course that's not actually how Golden Sun handles summons. They're mostly pure damage and can be spammed at the start of combat, so the endgame bosses all had to get a "no summons" move.>I think a better way to balance them would be, to make powerful magic actually come at a price.I'm currently experimenting with a "Ritual" mechanic, where you need to perform an uninterrupted sequence of spells to unlock the big impressive effect. If you don't follow the sequence or are interrupted the effect is lost. Was intended as way of simulating long-ass cast times in a turn based system, let's hope it works out.
>>736749283Items are more useful in LOD than most games cause you have zero magic except in your super forms and even then only like 2 characters have a heal and 1 has a barrier spell.
>>736728645Final Fantasy is the story of a bunch of game devs that really love D&D but never actually played D&D. And after FF2, they bullied the one dude that actually did play D&D out of the franchise and into his own thing, so now they were continuously scrambling to find how to make an RPG and not get curbstomped by Dragon Quest.A lot of things in the series make sense when you consider they are streamlined adaptions of core D&D design principles, in a system where it doesn't make sense to have them in the first place, with a team that were the OG vibecoders. Look at how many games where Blind literally does nothing. This was a consistent glitch in *multiple of their RPGs*.FF is just very lucky most people don't play D&D either.
Dungeon Crawlers do this best since most of them know that making enemies immune to general-use status is retarded unless you try poisoning Mr. Poison King of the Toxic Marsh.
>>736749223What I like about this system is that it opens up another dimension of offensive scaling. You can build for "status damage" to apply more status effects or build higher stacks, then take more options that care about status interactions. And the game designer can create more varied encounters like a high-defence, low status-resistance boss, or one that just takes more damage from poison.The Nioh games have the same system and they really go into build diversity with their diablo-like loot, but I would like to see the system in a turn based game.
>>736745291Spellblades in FFV aren't status effects and FFIV is extremely situational.FFII has some useful ones, true, but the first game that did it right was FFX.
>>736748495The point of stuff like Stop or whatever is to disable a really annoying add in a dangerous random encounter. For example in FFIVDS where you really dont want to give certain randoms a chance to act because they can and will wipe your entire party.However, ailments like slow still have their place as a way to make bosses easier.Etrian Odyssey knows which ailments are fair game for bosses and which ones arent.
>>736750105>Spellblades in FFV arent statusDont be a pedantic fuck. Sleep/Petrify/etc Spellblade apply the respective status 100% of the time as long as the enemy isnt immune. This is how you completely neuter Atomos for example. I dont know how or why you'd pretend that FF2 doesnt count when Toad and instant death are OP in that one.
>>736741272> Dark Souls solves this by giving bosses status buildup bars*Monster Hunter
>>736749390It's always funny how many people glaze Golden Sun's design while also admitting GS is the worst at actually handling its design. Djinn Rushing, Arid's Rock, the nothing cast of characters, the actually fucked messaging of Karst and Agatio, the actually stupid story behind The Wise One's Grand Plan...In a weird way, Golden Sun is kind of the Nintendo RPG equivalent of Final Fantasy. It very much is beloved because it is a lot of people's first introduction to either these kinds of design principles (using magic in the overworld, monster collecting, story where you play as the "antagonist" who is actually saving the world) or RPGs in general, so they ignore the fact that it actually ain't all that good. This is a series that didn't got Target Easing (if you kill a monster before the 2nd dude gets to attack, they won't just swing at thin air anymore) until Dark Dawn...>>736750107IV DS isn't really fair to argue when you remember Stop predates pretty much any random encounter where it would be useful and that's very much the Kaizo ROMHack version of IV -- a game that's normally notoriously easy. Again, Stop exists because Hold Person exists in D&D. They were mimicking the effects of this kind of OHKO crowd control effects, ignoring the reasons why they are in D&D -- simulationism, initiative orders, creative spell use, how not every encounter has to end with murdering everything with a pulse. The kind of spells that would be very effective in D&D aren't in FF because it streamlines every form of encounter design into KILL IT FASTER and have more resistances than it.
>>736743807All SaGa games.
>>736739148Tales.
>>736746842>The boss has a chance to slap the potion out of your hand
>>736728645I like how DQXI handled it, in that less impactful ailments like poison generally is easy to inflict so you can set up Erik's burst combo, but sleep can be extremely hard to downright impossible to inflict without the pep power sleep spell from Hero/Rab.
>>736728645that one obscure boss that isnt immune to instant death effects can be 1shotted with a phoenix down. no its not an undead/train/zombie or whatever, just a random boss with not indication.
>>736750641If all you do is run around grind on trash mobs 24/7, no status is ever useful. If you move from point a to point b, you can make a use case for status in FF because its easy to single out annoying elements in encounters that you dont feel like dealing with.For example, Break in FF3 (whether the spell or 2x break staves via normal attacks) is good all game long vs randoms.
>>736739073I legit think Atlus is just afraid of making status too good again. both SMT1 and 2 can be trivialized for the most part thanks to the power of shock and sleep, especially because you can do damage while also inflicting those ailments.
>>736728645You picked one of the worst examples, a lot of the early FF games have bosses that can be cheesed with status effects. A bigger issue is shit like:>wrpg lets you pick a thief/assassin class>stronger enemies are backstab immune
>torpor curse>soul liberator
>game introduces steal/pilfer early on>monster have missable items>1 time bosses have missable itemsnow you are stuck with your unchangeable main character and your thief for the rest of the game. cool....
>>736750641>It's always funny how many people glaze Golden Sun's design while also admitting GS is the worst at actually handling its design.A game can have a lot of flaws while still being wildly beloved. You can get away with a lot of things if you simply offer something that players can't easily get elsewhere. Dragon's Dogma is another game like that that I also adore while knowing it's not for most people. I'll admit Golden Sun does get a big nostalgia bonus for me, being one of those few games in my dad's ROM collection that actually ran on our PC. And throw in that Miyazaki quote about media being more enchanting due to not knowing English. Replaying it as an adult it really isn't that impressive, but that's no reason to trash a good memory.If you know games that flesh out some of those mechanics I'd interested in hearing about them.
>>736752325If a game's steal chance is like less than 50% I don't even bother.
>>736745307Some FF6 hacks do this but this then makes bosses trial and error where you can't win without being massively overleveled or going through all of the status effects until you find the one that works.
>>736746842Digimon time stranger has a difficulty mode where you are not allowed to use items, status effects that negate hp or sp recovery, and bosses that actually take away max health if you try to heal. It's very easy to balance if you try.The real problem is that most players can't actually handle a balanced battle system, if they can't beat the game without using their brain they won't bother even playing.
>>736752325>main character is a thief>every single boss he can be used in has a steal pool of four items and you will spend several minutes spamming steal until it works
SaGa and SMT are pretty much the only JRPGs where this matters
>>736740123Doesn't some bosses get additional turns
>>736743521>>736743618In typical Kiseki/Trails game, magic attack don't wake the enemy while physical attacks do.
>>736746842Do it like Black Myth Wu Kong did, in the last boss fight if you heal there is a chance the final boss will steal your healing item as you're drinking it and heal himself
>>736753082>>736750641Golden Sun had fantastic visuals and fun shit like class changes, artifact weapons with special attacks, hidden djinni, and great flavor dialogue like mind reading or every oven having different food in it. Everyone complains about JRPG combat as if every encounter is supposed to be some convoluted chess puzzle. They just forgot what chill games are supposed to be like. The first 2 games aren't the second coming of gaming jesus but they are really solid titles>>736752325>stealing literally only gets you healing items that are found and purchased everywhereThey seriously did Rouge dirty in Sonic Chronicles. Also fuck the stealing in >>736754448 all of the items can be purchased elsewhere
>>736728645Like many said, it is difficult to balance. Expi 33 did a really good job with it, as did the indie rpg fear and hunger. In Funger, status effects and debuffs could work against nearly every enemy, and some status effects are damn near needed to deal with some super bosses. But status effects are typically low chance, either in the effect has a low proc chance or an outright low hit chance. So youre going to land a very useful status effect, but its not a guarantee. Risk reward type of balance. OR the status effects are on item and limited. So if you want to blind this boss, just be okay knowing you might not be able to use it later. This works well for those loot goblins who hang onto their elixers and max potions, even holding onto them during the final boss fight.
>>736755752>I've only played modern JRPGs not even made in Japan.I can tell without you saying it. Bosses in Final Fantasy games used to have some sort of specific "spam to kill" weakness.
>>736728645Because status effects are OP unless you are immune to them. They are usually vulnerable to debuffs though, so that's what you should use.
>>736755831dude I am well aware of JRPGs and the FF games. Do you want me to repeat shit from FF6 for the nth time in this thread? I was trying to add to the discussion of games where status effects felt pretty good. Jesus youre such a miserable cunt.
>>736756023Status effects do not matter if you can insta-wipe.
>>736728645FFXII is the only JRPG where I've bothered using status effects outside of random experimentation. Bosses in that game tend to have at least a few status effects, and tossing a Remedy on them with a Nihopalaoa equipped will nail at least a few, and even landing a single slow or blind can be massive game changers; even more so if you can get a disable or sleep off.DQXI might also count? But I'm mostly using Parallax because of the increased damage. The paralysis chance is nice and all, but never something I rely on.>>736749223I'd definitely be more compelled to try out ailments if games experimented with ailment build up. Being told "lol blocked/missed/ineffective" when experimenting with them early on in a game is a fantastic way to get a player to stop bothering with them, even if ailments have debilitating effects when applied.
>>736728645Because it's extremely hard to balance. DoT for example gets broken if the turn debt is anything lower than like 4 turns in a combat system where fights last 8+ turns because you can just have characters stack whatever ones you can do in one turn and then after the turn debt has been paid off it's chunks of free damage. Look at how Monster Sanctuary makes it borderline mandatory to play the game at all later in the game and modern Digimon Story games have to have anti moves spammed by bosses so they don't drop dead from poison chunking their health due to all the turns they get.Status effects that aren't simple slows in an ATB system can completely break a boss fight. There's nothing stopping you from perpetually Stopping an enemy, silencing them, paralyzing them, freezing them, sleeping them, etc. Even in games where hitting something sleeping wakes them up means you have free reign of the field until they wake up.Effects like Doom/Death just can't be allowed because it means free kills with no effort. Go look at the Adamantoise fight in FFXV. You just sit back and cast the ring until it kills the thing when they patched that in. In FFXIII farming even a few Adamantoises with Vanille waiting for her slot machine to hit Death allowed you to get significant Crystarium upgrades ages before you were supposed to.%-based spells like Gravity mean you have no reason to use any magic spell but that past a certain point in the game. Until you have the enemy at like 25% health it is mathematically smarter and better to use the %-based spell than anything else. Mastemon in the modern Digimon Story games on Hard is one of the best party members you can possibly have because she can do the highest damage in the game because of this. World of Final Fantasy's entire mid, end, and postgame revolves around Death Searcher. If you don't have one on Reynn and Lann's teams you may as well not even be fighting enemies it's that broken.
>>736742289>The obvious answer to that is to make bosses immune to ONLY "stun"-type status effects to prevent stunlocking.The Correct answer is to make the bosses susceptible to stuns and make that one of the main ways to fight them, make the bosses really strong make make the fights into puzzles with many solutions, including brute force.Anyway Crystal Project is available for purchase on steam, get yours today.
>>736728645How do you feel about Pokémon way of using status effects? There is burn, freeze, sleep, poison, badly poison, and paralysis. Burn does damage over time and weakens physical attacks. Paralysis reduced your speed and have a change of skipping your turn. Freeze causes you to lose multiple turn and it's up to chance to break free. Poison is just damage over time, but badly poison (Toxic) increases the damage of the poison over time (6% to 12% to 18% etc.). Sleep is similar to freeze but the maximum turn to it is 3.There is also type immunity to it. Fire is immune to burn, electric to paralysis, Ice to freeze and Poison to poison. There are also abilities where they can either boost the Pokémon strength (Guts boost the Pokémon physical attack by 50% and ignore the damage reduction cause by burn.) or ignore them (Good as Gold). And status effect makes it easier to catch wild Pokémon.
>>736747942thx, ill try and remember it if I get to play in the open world again at a later point
>>736757879In singleplayer statuses are pointless since you're better off nuking the enemyIn multiplayer a status can mean that pokemon is as good as dead
They are too good. One lazy way is to make them mandatory, i.e. slowing down a boss because otherwise it's too fast.
>>736758160Pokémon is now starting to do boss fights in their games, so hopefully in single player, they are utilized more. In multiplayer, that one is more of risk, because as you said, good as dead, unless you're carrying a support Pokémon that can get rid of status or a special attacker as burn doesn't really affect them.
>>736741882This is true of all game genres, but in jrpgs it's the most infuriating that learned lessons just don't get passed down and iterated upon for future games, isntead they just backslide into making the same mistakes as previous titles. In a genre where gameplay is so controlled and similar to each other, there should be this bible collected over the years for how to handle combat and differnet ways of doing it. Not another game fucking up by making status ailments useless for the nth time.In the same way that writers get taught on what works and doesn't from previous works, I wish they did so for game devs. Closest thing I can think of is the yt channel gamemaker's toolkit.
Why do most JRPGs have really shitty tedious encounter design too? Not all of them, but most. A high encounter rate isn't much of a problem is the combat is quick and the encounter design actually makes sense.
>>736747368>>736747029>limited carry capacityThis would instantly make it better and not make it feel cheap when using them. Having 3 strong ice attack consumables on you instead would make other anon happier. That being said the thief archetype who can steal items and use them is one of my fave things in jrpgs so I wouldn't want them to be left out because stealing too powerful items would be op or something.
>>736758530It's almost as if there's hundreds of people making them and all of them have different tastes and personal experiences.>In the same way that writers get taught on what works and doesn't from previous worksThey don't, which is why you end with dogshit like Dan Brown's books or Harry Potter
>>736748471>rogues have skills that scale with these item effects like caltrops or so smoke bombsthis is sick. also, the estus aproach is great, and what's even greater is that just like in souls, there's nothing preventing you from handing out one of those use 1x in the entire game with no refill consumable if you wish in addition to these estus-type items.
>>736750252>I dont know how or why you'd pretend that FF2 doesnt countNo one said that except the voices in your head
>>736739148Atlus games's combat is the selling point of the games.
I recommend the Insaniax mod for Nocturne HD for anyone who wants some spicy turn based gameplay. They implemented the technical hits from P5 so you can status a boss then score crits by using the right magic on them.
>>736728645Just go the CRPG route where difficult enemies have really good saving throws, but a build specialized in defeating said save can still work, and when the dice fall in your favor they eat the full force of it.
They figured out how to make buff/debuff focussed Job back in XI.
I think Tactics Ogre does status pretty well.
>>736728910You posted the wrong image
>>736748404if you x-zone the guy at the top of the magic tower you also lose out on something iirc
>>736751074starting this seems intimidating, started in 1992, damn, shows how little I know of this genre. Will check it out.>>736751503Have heard the series is beloved by many, didn't know its combat was a big selling point, cool. >>736759151Why can't square just copy their type of gameplay, why do they make shitty action games and call it final fantasy insteadthx bros
>>736732332>The second most popular JRPG series of all time>"even the rare fans"Interdasting
>>736732645P4 is absolutely excellent, you're goddamn right. Funny seeing that other retard seethe about it. Persona 1 is only worth playing for the novelty, and 2 isn't much better. 3 is pretty good though.
>>736759419We're not talking about Final Fantasy lil' bro
>>736733429He's right, though. Anytime this discussion comes up, some retard posts a random game nobody ever played and makes huge claims about it. And, if you ever play the game, you see he's full of shit
>>736755687I was told the thief was good in 9, have I been duped? What games have the best thief characters that are genuinely useful? I remember Rikku being pretty bonkers if she got the right grenades iirc. I remember Locke being shit but I could be remembering it wrong. Don't remember if ther was a thief in 7. Blue mage is of course the coolest idea, but is so rarely well executed and just becomes a niche with mediocre spells.
Crystal Project 2 will save turn based gameplay
>>736759823Erik in DQXI is the strongest damage character in the game. you set up poison, then use a move that creates doppelgangers that copy your attack 3 times then use an attack that consumes the poison on an enemy to do increased damage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj-JezuyDEU
>>736753082>>736755687>The first 2 games aren't the second coming of gaming jesus but they are really solid titlesI will admit that a lot of my disdain comes from how Nintendo fans treat any JRPG that comes their way as the 2nd coming of christ. Xenoblade is cool and all but none of the games hold a candle to Xenogears or Xenosaga, even if they are more consistent and ultimately better. I'm a big Fire Emblem fan and not even I would say any of them comes close to its contemporaries (though there are lot of SRPGs that are just plain worse than FE like God Wars, Mercenaries Saga, or YGO Capsule Monsters). Golden Sun, especially with how Dark Dawn left the fans horrendously down-bad for anything that picks up the ball that dropped, keeps being flung up as this inspirational JRPG because of the little details and strengths, ignoring how much the game's core does not hold up at all. People asking for a return for the franchise will, at most, get something like Mario & Luigi: Brothership. A maybe-fine-ish game that doesn't have nearly the same amount of charm or understanding of those little details people appreciate.Golden Sun is just not what I want out of a JRPG experience and I get really tired from a bunch of other people that said it is.>>736757879Pokemon has really good status systems, it just doesn't really express itself in the single-player. Even the Battle Frontier it is a crapshoot thanks to many gimmicks that makes *actually using your moves random*, and you really want to limit your time in any facility.
>>736757698God I miss World of Final Fantasy.
>>736760194Thoughts on Shining Force?
>>736739271Granted I hear that the atlus games do plenty of weird fucky wucky stuff, so some of this might already be covered, but it would be cool for some game to go full psycho mantis but within the jrpg genre. Rewind time to previous turns, teleport characters so they have to fight their own battle isolated before returning, shadow Link shit where they copy you and make you fight yourself, hp goes in reverse and the boss casts berserk on you so you're forced to hit him so you try and blind yourself to miss. Then again it's hard to come up with examples so maybe it's hard to innovate within this genre, and it's maybe time to evolve it by combining it with something else. I think this is partly what they've tried to do by making FF into an action series, but it just doesn't feel great, partly because they don't do much with it. The FF VII remake could have focused a hell of a lot more on positioning for instance and playing the floor is lava and stuff.
>>736739940I don't know either why people won't admit it. I think it's because jrpgs present themselves with all these options, statuses and turn-based system which makes it seem like it should play more complex and tactical, but it rarely ever does. The level of interaction you get outside of the combat arenas is also minimal and is so rarely populated, and it hasn't changed in all these years. Just spending a shitton of money on pretty cutscenes, but then when you're actually controlling the character there's just so little to do.
>>736759386Hexer combined with dark hunter in this game is so crazy.
>>736760489I hate how this game and the psp DIssidia games prove that modern SE could make good games but decide to trend chase for imagined profits
>>736761072you gotta when you keep dumping one gorillian dollars into making sure each individual strand of hair is rendered realistically.
>>736731006Then there's no reason to use them. Turn debt is absolutely a thing to consider in cases like this because you have to justify the turn you wasted casting it compared to just using any other method of attack.Yakuza 7 is the poster child for this concept because you can spend three character turns casting something that inflicts bleed, cold, and burning to a single enemy with each one dealing 60ish damage per turn for a total of 180 damage, or you can cast an Essence with each character for anywhere from 2000-4000 damage per character to every single enemy. Even if you want to argue a 1v1 aspect and the lowest range possible that means to make up for three characters dealing 6000 damage total you would have had to have waited roughly 33 enemy turns before you could justify having applied the DOT in the first place.
>>736760719>but it would be cool for some game to go full psycho mantis but within the jrpg genreYou could just play the SaGa games.
>>736760620Fun, I like I (and the GBA remake) & II but never played 3 (or the multiple scenarios) and have no interest in Feather. There's not much to the games unfortunately and the Shining series as a whole is very much more miss than hits. The lack of character customization or unique abilities in the games really does hurt the point of running all the units.
>>736760061Even if you ignore the status setup on Erik, Divide into Fatal Flash with swords is also like the 2nd strongest thing in the game with one less step
>>736761351I've never tried swords erik, maybe when I replay the game a few years from now. for my original run and XIS run I had Sylvando set up the poison to make it a little bit faster so Erik didn't need to do it himself
>>736732716>garbage>at least 30 minutes to an hour of pure kino for each boss if you don't cheese them>no bullshit RNG just some gimmicksIt's literally how bosses should be designed.
>>736732716>DDS2 Satan>Need to be +3 buffs in a certain turn or you die for the ENTIRE FIGHT>He will cast Vanity(never miss charm spell) in a certain turn, if you don't cast void charm you're dead>Heals to full if his hp dips below 1,500>Fully debuffing him also means deathAnd like a thousand over things you need to track off, Demi in DDS1 is just as bad and the way people kill him is using an AI loop to get pixie to run out of magic.
>>736729534>>736730801>>736741882>turnsthese are good ideas, could you not also make it so that a boss often has many phases instead of the usual 2-3? This way you could have it be susceptible to these debilitating effects early on, but then it gets enraged and glows red or something super obvious, which lets you know it wont be affected now. This also allows you do do crazy shit like the phoneix down on zombie stuff to insta clear phases, it of course loses its cool factor if it only clears on of 10+ phases, but you get the idea. In this system you could also play with the idea of killingblows, so if you kill one phase with ice attacks, the next phase it gets resistant to that or similar, so it evolves depending on what you do, as if it too changes up its tactics, the fluff being that it is more on alert when you do it next time (phase).
>>736739148Labyrinth of Touhou TriIt's a dungeon crawler like EO but it has one of the best turn-BASED combat systems. The mob fights are just trash mob fights but the bosses at Lunatic difficulty are absolute PEAK.It's there at the top with SMTVV in terms of gameplay for me.
>>736728756Not every status effect is as overpowered as stop, retard. Take poison, for example, when you can kill 90% of regular trash enemies in like 1-2 hits, why should you bother using it on them when it's better to save it for bosses to ensure a steady but not overwhelming flow of damage to the bosses even when you're taking turns healing the party. Why even have that as a status effect that you can inflict when the only enemies it would be genuinely worth using it on are immune to it?
>>736728645>ff6>bosses being immune to status effectsFF6 lets you even cast beneficial effects on bosses, just look at reflect strats and vanish+doom
>>736739921Also to add this >>736761934 game does exactly that.It doesn't solve the game for you, it just speeds up the process. Whatever their last move does when you lower their HP to 0 is still hidden.
>>736744973ff7 is extremely funny because you can accidentally trigger lucky 7s on so many enemies and watch them get deleted by a massive spike DoT, Materia Keeper is notorious for this
>>736758972I like Dan Brown, why you gotta hate on history conspiracy kino
I see our WRPG friends are once again engaging in their favorite hobbyActually playing WRPGs? No no no.Squatting in a JRPG thread like insecure goblins of course. Scientifically proven to be more fun than any WRPG ever made considering that's how most of the LARP genre's "fans" spend their time.
>>736762373Because you could get some taste and read the books that hack rips off extremely poorly like Foucault's Pendulum
>>736761183Which one in the series would you recommend?
>>736728645ENTER
>>736762651it filtered billions
>>736762294very cool, I've never seen this type of customization in this genre before.
>>736761980Stop shilling your shitty "art" please
>>736762563anything that isn't>GB SaGa 3>Revenge of the SevenThese aren't real SaGa games, they're not made by Kawazu and as a result aren't designed like the rest of the series, play SaGa 3 DS and Romancing SaGa 2 Remastered instead.>SNES RS1Notoriously unfinished due to Nintendo meddling, also really rough in general, play Minstrel Song Remastered instead.As for the rest it mostly depends on how much of a freak you are, SaGa's all about doing things nobody else does so whether you like them or not depends on how thirsty you are for weird shit.If you want something more orthodox and safe you'll want to play the GB games or SaGa 2 DS, if you're a degenerate there's Unlimited Saga, Scarlet Grace or Emerald Beyond, everything else is sort of in the middle.
>>736763260what? i thought everyone liked the RS2 Remakethe pc port for the RS2 remaster is so shit, god damn
>>736728645I'm playing this game for the first time and this is exactly what I was thinking
>>736763336Old fans were always split about it from day 1, the honeymoon period is over so even most of the people who were supporting it are looking at it differently after having played it a lot.People who never played SaGa and started with it mostly liked it, but those people have no real understanding of the series are also not buying the other games so they don't really matter, they're largely Team Asano refugees which is admittedly the audience the remake is for.
>>736731816Whetr the fuck did Guy get a harpoon gun?
>>736763673fair, i was going to buy it because i do like RS2. i can't believe they never fixed the framerate/resolution problems
>>736733902They are literally so mind-numbingly retarded it's unreal>Same retarded headcanon of playing other RPGs, they haven't and refused to even list any because even fucking Trails has better combat>Noooooo, stop recommending me things I just want to push my agendaLiterally the most retarded posters on this entire board
>>736762446umberto ecco is like serious literature, Dan Brown is for fun genre entertainment>>736758972>different tastesno, this really can't be it, just look at open world slop, like two generations worth of games repeating the same mediocre shit over and over again, and then ignoring the few good examples of iteration released, taking nothing from them and then just keep doing the same shit. A million video essays and reviews denegrating ubislop towers and copy paste objectives and quest markers doesn't even move the needle, it's weird.
>>736763907RS2 remastered was the first of the modern ones so a lot went kinda wrong and it's not really possible to fix, especially because SE's contract with Artepiazza is no more.RS3 remastered has mods for 60FPS and other fixes so it's not impossible for RS2 to get something similar one day, depends on how much time Denho or somebody else has to dedicate to that.
>>736763260I don't know why, Unlimited was the only one I really got. I don't mean in the sense of understanding it fully, but it felt like I was in that weird camp it was meant for since I wasn't smart enough to break it, but appreciated a lot of the cool things it felt like I could do that other games didn't let me do. I couldn't get into Scarlet Grace, I hear it has an amazing battle system and it very well might, but it feels structured too much like a gacha where you select location, do 1-3 battles, move on.
>>736763934what is he saying exactly, that only the newer persona games are worth playing in the entire genre of jrpgs?
>>736761072WoFF flopped and Maxima was supposed to be a second chance but that supposedly also flopped. Why do you think they're on the Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default train nowadays? They're like the only two series that succeeded at all. Every attempt they have to make new IPs flops like I am Setsuna, Triangle Strategy, Various Daylife, and Lost Sphear while resurrecting IPs and showing them tons of love like NEO TWEWY with everyone loving it flopped as well.
>>736738257>Doesn't list a single example of how Persona is superior to anythingListen, I've ACTUALLY played P4 AND P4G, on the hardest difficulty, it's not only extremely easy but also boring, and you're full of shit and haven't played anything.
>>736764179Speaking of that, one thing I hated about the hardest difficulty in P4G is the lowered exp. Mainly because it feels as if it punishes early joiners extremely hard. It's not really a problem for Yu, but it sucks ass for someone like Yosuke.
>>736736952>XenogearsWhat's even the point of the open world? There's nothing to explore, you just go to the only availible next location anyway, it's completely linear. I've never played a game where it more felt like the devs just wanted to make an epic anime series or something. Granted the cinematogaphy is great and it captures genuine scale in a way its competitors don't, but like god damn, this is like sonyslop moviegames from 30 years ago
>midway through the game>get a very rare consumable for battle>get to the end>never use itevery fucking time
>>736736365a boss with a million attacks getting hit with a poison tick is so sayisfying though, even better if it kills him when he's about to start his mega combo you know will fuck you.
>>736764287>game limits rare consumables to incentivize you to use them>this just makes me sell them instead since they're worth fat stacks of cash
>>736764370>Ever selling unique or one-of-a-kind items.You hoard them never to use them. If you ever sold a single gold bar in Fallout New Vegas you played the game wrong. All 36 bars better be in your Novac or Big MT safe.
>>736764070SSG takes a lot from Unlimited but it's sorta recontextualized because they didn't have the budget to make proper dungeons like Unlimited so the entire world got turned into an event based pseudo dungeon.A problem many have with that, which I suppose is yours as well, is that you can't really understand how the world works until you start replaying the game and see just how much reactivity and hidden shit there is, which is made worse by SSG having really slow pacing and autistically detailed quest routing that is next to impossible to understand without playing through it multiple times, there's also NG+ content that gets progressively unlocked and further alters the world making it even harder to understand because a questline can be completed in so many different ways and many of those ways are extremely specific like you need to play as a certain main character/have recruited a certain character beforehand/need to be in a certain main scenario or more.At first glance it does look like you're just hopping from location to location, reading dialogues and fighting, but once you replay the game and start doing things differently you really get an idea of how stupidly complex the world is.Emerald Beyond is even more autistic as the pacing is faster but the game worlds are completely shuffled with each NG+ cycle and every MC has their own internal cycles and progression gimmicks as well, in that game it's straight up impossible to have two runs play out the same.
>>736764250Not as bad as Persona 3 where hard mode punishes you with 3 times the cost for rebuying persona from the Velvet Room.What was FATLUS thinking?
>>736762651The last time I played FF2 I grinded the captains in Fynn at the beginning of the game, just grind your spells and eventually you can kill them smoothing, makes the rest of the game easy
Why do any Final fantasies hit these development hell cycles and take forever to develop? They look like the easiest shit in the world to make. Nothing is dynamic, everything is controlled, the entire game is just empty corridors with no interaction other than opening a chest occasionally. All battles are static instanced spaces. The gameplay is never ballsy in any way. The only thing that looks like it would take time are making cutscenes and graphical assets.
>>736764657Or just unequip everyone's weapons, go into an encounter in the first area you possibly can, have them stand in the back row, kill all enemies but one, and then just have your party members punch each other. Gets you up to max combo in like an hour if I remember right.
>>736764130They flopped because Square was intentionally not trying to advertise their A and AA games at the time. Barely anyone even knew TWEWY had a sequel. They did not want NEO TWEWY to succeed and it was clear as day until it eventually came out that they intentionally sabotage that and several other A and AA games.
>>736763336Im playing through the remake I like it but its definitely not a saga game you cant even save anywhere or run away without penalty like in the others I've played
>>736741882Nobody copies that because it fucking sucks when a boss gets to have multiple turns while you sit there getting hit in the fucking face.
>>736764657I'm not sure about the original but in the GBA version you can wait until Minwu joins and he has Expel to instakill them.
>>736730375I know on /v/ we're supposed to be contrarians but holy fuck at least get something remotely defensible you retard
>>736764880how is he wrong though? your average jrpg is just basic attack spam+heal against trash 99% of the time. A BG2 enemy will start the encounter in anywhere on the screen in any number of map configurations or behind cover. Even if your fighter just walks up to it and autoattacks until its dead it's already been a more complex encounter that's taken a lot less time and has the place you're exploring actually factor into the fight.
>>736765154You're confusing busywork with depth.
>>736764785>Barely anyone even knew TWEWY had a sequel.It had a promotion campaign in Shibuya (Albeit when Covid was in full swing) and everything while Nintendo themselves pushed it on Switch multiple times with news segments when you booted up your system. It also had very solid word of mouth from basically everyone.I know it looks like they're intentionally sabotaging their games but they weren't. The games just failed spectacularly on repeat, it's just that games like Various Daylife and Triangle Strategy got next to no marketing outside of maybe one or two days of launch.
>>736765387jrpgs are nothing but empty linear levels with timesink random encounters that take time to load in and have zero strategy to them other than to just grind them down with the same attacks over and over again, literal 1 button spam games. WRPGs dont waste your time with transitions or lengthy animations, the enemies are part of exploration and are encountered and fought on your terms. Using the word busywork is a really odd choice when comparing with jrpgs that are nothing but on the way to the cutscenes you really want to see, how do you even reach the conclusion that wrpgs are worse in that respect, what
>>736765739>Every JRPG is Final Fantasy >Every WRPG is Baldur's Gate (grossly misrepresented too)Why are you here?
>>736765154If you think the average crpg encounter requires more planning than most JRPG superbosses you are unapologetically retarded. I'm sorry, there are zero exceptions.
>>736764814A boss being able to do different actions in a row instead of just 1 thing that has to hit retardedly hard to be a threat leads to more interesting situations in a fightDQ's not the only RPG that does that part but most games besides like Earthbound don't make status effects work the same way
>>736766372I do not find it interesting when a boss in DQIV can use his ice breath twice in one turn and instantly kill my entire party.
>>736766559Yeah there's less of that in the later DQs. Usually they can't do the same thing twice in a turn.
>>736766068I mean they're the big games in their respective genres so not weird for them to be compared? TES was also thrown in there as another one of the juggernauts. Of course it's not going to be precise if you're comparing the genre as a whole, but really if we're talking about your "average" jrpg vs wrpg then yeah, clearly the jrpg are the braindead static timewasters comparably. If you want to compare specific games instead of the genre as a whole ten sure, lets do that. If we're only looking at Atlus games then sure. >>736766308I took that poster to mean "big guy in bg2" to mean a boss, but I'm not even sure what he's referring to desu, this just feels like a dumb discussion, should discuss things on a game by game basis instead. I honestly think the rage in these threads is coming from people recommending old ass jrpgs with this same braindead formula and then claim them to be absolute classics with great gameplay when they're really not.They really only hit their stride from late late ps2 onwards in terms of compelling gameplay it seems.
>>736766749>BG>Big nameMore people know about Dragon Age or Mass Effect than BG.>but really if we're talking about your "average" jrpg vs wrpg then yeah, clearly the jrpg are the braindead static timewasters comparably.Bro, CRPGs and especially BG derivatives are notorious for being braindead static timewasters with grossly inflated timewasting due to the AD&D based combat where 70% of your hits miss unless you spend minutes prebuffing so you miss only 40% of the times.
>>736748471Congratulations, you turned items into spells, dummy
>>736748471I prefer it like how E33 did it where it was actual no joke Estus Flasks, it made me use healing potions a lot more liberally knowing they were temporarily and would be replaced at the next checkpoint. Otherwise I'm there conserving my MP for heals to try to never use a single potion like the most frugal fucker on the planet. With your system, it just makes me not want to use non healing items. I just got done playing a game where I needed to SPAM status cure items, so a system where you only have a limited number of those seems like it could stifle encounter design a bit?
>>736761351Fatal Flash is weaker than Victimizer/Persecutter and Double Down.
>>736728645I liked the FF13 usage of statuses where there are broken status attacks but you have to keep spamming the same status move to get it to stick to bosses.
>>736734065They're useful in FFs 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,10,12,13
>>736762651Luv FF2, retards just don't get it
>>736772562the only really bad thing about it was stat atrophy and that was only in the NES version
>>736773260Also in PS1 but it's not nearly as big of a deal as people who never played it make it out to be
>>736772562I tried playing the PS1 remake and I just get filtered by the encounter rate in dungeons. opening a door to a dead end and doing a fight like every step blows ass, it was like a cave/some mines that shit happened in and I got fed up and quit.
>>736728645it is one of the worst aspects of the genre.you have limited items, limited MP, and standard random encounter enemies are not difficult enough to need to be afflicted with status effects so you just use your most efficient damage dealing spells to nuke them down or just have weapon attackers take care of them, but the enemies who would benefit from using status effects on.... are immune to everything but slow.
>>736773260Small inventory space that gets further clogged up by key items is my real complaint about it
>>736773515they lifted those encounter rooms straight out of Wizardry, which is cute. to this day Kawazu's games really seem to take a lot from old western RPGs.
>>736732716you cannot tell me that demi fiend isn't kino
>>736737896BG3 can be fun but the limitation on spellcasting to having to long rest all the time and pop all your elixirs again kind of holds it backHonestly the best WRPG combat experiences I ever had was the Divinity Original Sin games. That turn based system was great, using action points that you could save up and budget to do multiple actions in a single turn, the spells interacting with environmental effects was kino (using lightning on a puddle of water, or straight up shooting a barrel full of water to get the floor wet and then using lightning on it to stun everything), or freezing water to make enemies slip and fall on their ass when they try to run across it, smoke from a fire being a smoke screen that archers can't fire through (can't see the targets through the smoke), picking up an enemy with telekinesis and dropping them off a cliff onto another enemy for falling/crushing damage, stuff like that.
>>736728910>>Best JRPG battle system everAnon spamming matarukaja and debilitate all the time is boring as shit.
>Final Fantasy cultists seething at Persona/SMT superiorityEvery time
>>736730375Because the combat system in JRPGs has been streamlined too much.Scenario: Boss is weak to Ice>In WRPG: Still need to consider your attack range, line of sight, area of effect, friendly fire, casting speed, terrain and elevation, no mobs interrupting your cast, etc.>In JRPGs: Press 1 button to select the strongest Ice move from the menu, watch 5-minute cinematic experience battle animation, deal massive damage (in SMT, you also get free turns), repeat ad infinitium until the boss dies.
>>736775194it's incredible how you managed to be reductionist towards both WRPGs and JRPGs in one post.
>>736728645That is my wifehttps://youtu.be/u8Dts9-cAXQ
>>736775194>In WRPG: Still need to consider your attack range, line of sight, area of effect, friendly fire, casting speed, terrain and elevation, no mobs interrupting your cast, etc.No you don't.
>classic rpg>when you die the game resets
>>736728645Something I really liked in 7 that doesnt really seem to be used in games anymore is that they would give you an item that can just instantly cheese a boss if you knew the gimmick. The one boss where it gets hurt by healing and you could throw a special heal item at them and they just die. Kind of kinoBut as others have said the issue is usually bad balancing. I probably need to play more jrpgs but the only ones that come close to needing your full arsenal of moves is the persona games on the highest difficulty.
>>736733902I don't understand why SMTrannies think they are any better than Personafags when both series have braindead DVD menu combat
>>736775194>JRPG: press one button and win>WRPG: Roll the dice baby!
>>736775535those fucking fallout 1 and 2 crits
>>736775534>braindead dvd menu combat>posts someone beating easy mode nocturne
You've played 1 JRPG? Then you've played all of them.
736775679>Y-you have to play the Super Extreme Hellish Nightmare Assrape Mode!This fucking cope again kek
>>736775754Meanwhile WRPGs...
>>736775754this pic literally contradicts you though
>>736775813have they not made wrpgs in the past 30 years?
>>736775813Holy soul...
>>736730921>gets to mt gagazet and zanarkand area>multiple bosses start fucking over your entire party with status effects in funky ways, like zombie/full life for a OHKO, the trials beast berserking a party member and setting landmines underneath them
>>736776125That phase transition mega death is full on bullshit though. I don't think Yunalesca even uses other instant death moves to give an incentive to not cure zombie
>>736775347Pathfinder is such an egregiously bad system for a video game.Glad owlcat did better with RT.
>>736772562You're not special because you like a shitty game.
>>736775492Final Fantasy used to just let you beat a boss with one move, or at least hit them with a status effect that all but guaranteed you'd win. The cost of making all the assets for a boss probably means they don't want it to be over that quickly, though.
>>736728645I know it's not a jrpg (despite ripping off FFX's combat), but LOTR The Third Age actually had debuffs work against every or pretty much every enemy if I recall correctly.
>>736775754That's some good niggers in a row gameplay. Makes me wanna play something.
>>736777419as a tolkien and ffx fanatic i have a weird relationship with that game. Absolute lorerape but also fun
>>736777674I never got around to the third book, but I'll be very disappointed if I don't read about how the eye of saron fought a another band of heroes at the top of his tower.
>>736731916DQXI mogs like 99% of JRPG battle systems.
>>736760919This is why Zelda just hard mogs the entire genre. It does every level of interaction far better, and in real time.
>>736775754>>736775813HOLY FUCKING KINO
>>736780238The whole thread is literally just>[GAME I PERSONALLY LIKE] IS A BETTER JARPIG THAN THE REST BECAUSE UH LIKE... WELL, UMM... B-BECAUSE I FUCKING SAY SO OK!? GOD!!!!
>>736728910>Best JRPG battle system ever
>>736759779SaGa got brought up multiple times in this thread though
>>736780524But I'm not just 'saying so', it really does have genuine merits, like having the entire party be freely swap-out-able from the 4 member front row on any character's turn, which massively increases the number of tactical options over even games that limit swapping to the current character (especially since this allows you to move KOed characters around, but restricts stunned one). You get tons of freedom to manage party buffs/debuffs (which stick around to off-screen characters) off this.It has its flaws, but the typical JRPG has such garbage combat that what it offers is a huge step up from that.
>>736739148>Are there any JRPGs where the combat is one of the selling pointsRomancing SaGa 2Enchant FarmCrystal Project
>>736781127No it isn't DQ 11 is awful. Dogshit balancing where the MC is the worst member of the party, debuffs being so inaccurate they aren't even worth using, unbalanced character build options, turn order being random which makes any real attempts at planning or strategy impossible and heavy reliance on the overabundant CC status effects to make the bosses difficult.
its good when not all enemies can get hit by it.same way there should be enemies immune to magic and physical damage.FF is a great series that does it all very well.
Is bravely default series worth a go? Good combat? Good story? It strikes me as a truer continuation of final fantasy than the main series.
>>736784275Great combat, one of my all-time JRPG favourites. I love how the job system allows you to break the game in half. Make sure to play on hard.The story is kinda nonsensical and the repetition in chapters 5-7 kinda sucks, but chapter 8 has one of my all-time favourite boss fights.
>>736775679>posts someone beating easy mode nocturneWhen you're so good at the video game people accuse you of cheating or playing on lower difficulties LMAO
>>736784483Is it worth playing if I already know the main twist?
>>736782442Dogshit second act 2, with all the bullshit errands you gotta do as the other party members in the "superior" edition. Also fucked up third act that retroactively fucks character development.
>>736784275The combat system is OK but everythibg else about the game is dogwater.
>>736775347wrpgs are so fucking ugly man.decades of games being made in that shitty subgenre, not a single good looking game.
>>736780649Even with the HD Remaster people are still fucking terrified of learning how to play Resonance of Fate
>>736774319Having to consider where you use Matarukaja and debilitate in the turn order versus getting the max number of turns with the ever present risk of missing and losing the turn you'd use for buffs is genuinely pretty kino tho. You know that's happened to everyone who plays these games too, the compromise of press turn.
>>736784972You just line the lines up and watch the characters do funny juggle animations while enemies flail about helplessly.
>>736784275yeah its great combat and story.>>736784854kys
>>736728645I am planning an RPG Maker game, and I am having this dilemma.I don't want players to cheese bosses with stunlocks, sleep loops or poison or lacerate.But making bosses immune against status effects removes an entire tactical layer of my game from bosses.I think one solution would be giving bosses a high chance to resist status effects like stun and sleep, but without giving them 100% resistance, but this is still imperfect.
>>736785013>Having to consider where you use Matarukaja and debilitate in the turn order versus getting the max number of turns with the ever present risk of missing and losing the turn you'd use for buffs is genuinely pretty kino thoSometimes you need to heal too! You also need to press some buttons! Also don't forget to breathe IRL! See, the game is actually deep and hardcore!
>>736728645
>>736785081Just copy what etrian odyssey does which gives bosses cumulative resistance.For example if boss has 50% resistance to sleep once hit with sleep it will immediately give itself 50% more resistance so boss becomes immune for a while but the resistance slowly goes away but it won't go back to 50% more like 40% so each subsequent attempt is harder. The fight would have to go on for like 50 turns before the boss becomes completely immune to cc. 50 turns is not that unreasonable for EO standards, solo fights can last hundreds of turns.No stunlock but in a long enough fight you can apply multiple CC effects.
>>736784574both you and i know full well you can change difficulty at any time in the gameand that boss isn't even the final boss
>>736784907Once they got out of the 90s and left prerendered backgrounds and sprites in favor of 3d graphics like neverwinter nights it was just downhill from there. Bioware games in particular just aged like garbage, like dragon age and mass effect.It's nice to have AA rpgs getting made again instead of just aaa slop, but damn if they still don't look cheap indie garbage.These 3d models with their lame ass smooth animations in particular are just so unappealing in these new titles and just gliding across the ground I can't, it looks so cheap. I'll take low frame animations like those in diablo/original baldurs gate any day of th week over that. I thought I was just watching with nostalgia goggles, but having revisited a lot of those older isometric games they just look plain better.
>>736785514>both you and i know full well you can change difficulty at any time in the gameBut you can't, this is PS2 version. Cope more remaster bab.
>>736785552no it isn't
>>736766068I addressed that here>>736762430WRPG fans hate their own genre so much they'd rather spend all day every day squatting in our threads huffing our nut sweat than actually play a god awful WRPG.
>>736728645Japs aren't smart enough to handle complex combat systems, which is why they mainly stick to action RPGs, or Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy/Pokémon tier braindead stuff.Just think about it, the entire JRPG genre is basically a massive casualization of western RPGs made half a century ago, and they have never evolved past them in terms of complexity or difficulty.
>>736773949>Divinity Original SinIs really bad about status effectsAs relates to the original topic, in D:OS you have lots of bosses that are immune to everything but Charm, you can charm the final boss of D:OS2 repeatedly FFS
>>736785527I think the 90s prerendered/sprite based WRPGs are fucking ugly too.Everything is brown or gray. All characters are ugly. Avatar icons are all pulp schlock.The newer 3D ones just look shit because they try to copy the old look.
>>736785667the only evolution in WRPGs over the last 50 years is mandatory gay sex.
subhumans who defend RTWP games dont get to talk game design.
>>736780649I loved the game but it's pretty braindead once you get the hang of it. All flash and no substance.
>>736728645so you can't cheese the bosses with status effects, are you seriously this retarded?
>>736754448Zidane might very well the worst fucking thief in history.
>>736762430Wrpg westcuck subhumans love flinging shit meanwhile they get constantly cucked in their own games
Here's the redpill. Menu turn-based is for people who wanna larp as a strategist or tactician but is too retarded for RTS or anything that requires decision making on the fly / thinking on their feet. Even worse, they get filtered by tactical / strategy turn based like in X-Com / Jagged Alliance / etc. because those games require them to consider variables like >>736775194. Weeb retards just wanna feel smart for spamming Red attack on Blue enemies.
>>736728756>>736742289Monster Hunter figured this out forever ago. Make status effects a bar you fill instead of a simple binary coin flip. After the bar is filled the status is applied, then wears off after a short duration. Stop would stop the boss from doing anything temporarily allowing you to wail on him without having to worry about healing off his damage.
>>736787750>X-Com / Jagged Alliance / etc.I don't play these or RTS games because I don't like the art style/settings. Make it more anime and put waifus in it and I will play it. I remember there was some Star Wars RTS that looked cool as fuck to me forever ago because I was really into Star Wars at the time. But X-Com and Jagged Alliance sound boring to me.
>>736787750I play RTS and RTT. I even play new Starcraft 2 custom campaigns to this day. I loved Shadow Tactics, Desperados, etc. I modded the fuck out of XCOM 2.Here's the redpill. You have to group people up and have somebody to antagonize just to feel better about yourself. Humans are tribalistic by nature so it isn't your fault, but you are retarded.
>>736787750I like both. Or, well, I dislike most JRPGs because they're braindead easy, but some (like the one you posted) actually require you to strategise.
>>736788009>Make it more anime and put waifus in it and I will play it. I remember there was some Star Wars RTS that looked cool as fuck to me forever ago because I was really into Star Wars at the time.Ask Jap devs to do that. Except they are lazy niggers who are content with rehashing Wizardry/DQ but with different skins. They also know their audience well.>But X-Com and Jagged Alliance sound boring to me.We all know jarpiggers are ADHD retards
>>736728645>he says while posting a screenshot from a game that allows you to delete bosses with the Vanish-Doom comboActually go play a game, you waste of flesh.
>>736787750
>>736788506Retards like you are the reason why the 7 demakes made everything flashy and "cinematic".
>>736785283Retard, it's the economy of turns. You can heal on your first turn, or you can choose to attack and gain an extra press turn, but if you miss you've been taxed two turns and now can no longer heal. This most basic of situations already has more depth to the standard RPG turn system.
>>736788658>depth>actually just "play the game we tell you to, or die" with extra stepsThere is nothing good about Press Turn garbage because all it accomplishes is funneling you toward a playstyle which you should ALREADY BE DOING and rewarding you for no reason.The reward IS winning. The punishment IS losing. There is no need for the extra turn dopamine hit bullshit.
>>736787750RTS don't have enything to do with thinking on the fly, they are about macro first and foremost and then build order knowlege.
Does anyone have that old VGCats comic about FFXIII where they basically say all JRPGs are shit at their core?
>>736787750Aren't RTS games mostly about counterpick matchups too?
>>736788658That's my fucking point, you fucking retard. Turn economy management isn't exclusive to SMT. Managing buff / debuff / healing isn't exclusive to SMT. But your fucking game has no other mechanics or variables for you to juggle with that you faggots have to resort to trying to make them sound as deep and grandiose as possible.
>>736762651It’s not that hard of a game, once you figure out how to game the system.
>>736762651>Frequent sparring with your friends is the real road to fulfillmentThat's a neat message
>>736728645>Dragon Quest>Valkyrie Profile>Lunar>Star OceanYou're a noob OP, play more games.
Bump limit reached.
>>736787049That title goes to Yangus the thieving abilities in DQ8 are just shit
