honestly, this isn't just true, it's giga true, just look at gook coomgacha, it's literally the opposite of art
>>736736816Video games stopped being art the moment its retarded consumers started yelling for more and more demakes.
>[Arbitrary term]Meaningless discussion
>>736736816Video games do t have to be srt because you guys gave no frame of reference anyways and think any old stolen seventh grade reading level idea, design, or piece of music was invented by the game. Why try to make art when gamers are impatient, easily confused, and are actually violently frustrated by introspection and ideas that can be applied outside of the video game
>>736736816Define "art."
>>736736816i agree but i don't think you understand the distinction or that art is a category and not a value judgment to denote merit
>>736736816>just look at gook coomgachaBetter yet look at western AAA games, they're Marvel movies.
>>736736909>Video games stopped being artWhen did they start?
>>736736816They are no different than films. If films can be art then so can video games. Although you could argue that films aren't art either I guess.
>>736736816Considering what people do nowadays (Tik Toks and Instagram reels), video games are high art now just like TV shows when video games came out. Sitting and playing a single player game is like reading a book.
>>736737075film doesn't have rules and win/loss states
>>736737075Do film have mechanics? Do they have objectives? Do they have rules you must follow? Do they have win/loss conditions?NO CAUSE VIDEO GAMES ARE GAAAAAAAAAMES NOT ART
>>736736816Isn't LSD dream emulator supposed to be an art piece?
video games aren't art
>>736736816This guy is dead and I am aliveSo I can call him a gay faggot retard and say his opinion is shit and he cant do anything about itAnyways Senran Kagura Estival Versus is high art. What are you gonna do about me saying that? Nothing retard lol. Stay in the grave.
what is art tho
>>736737256vgrntrt
can tranime be art though?
>>736736816Can they be sex?
>>736737346yes, it is
>>736736816ok then same can be applied to movies>just look at hollywood, it's all safe corporate woke propaganda, the opposite of art
>>736737543what?
>videogames aren't art because... THEY JUST AREN'T OK?
>>736737141>>736737189I don't see how either of those things would disqualify games from being art.
>>736737740video games are electronic toys
>>736736816I think movies aren't art. It's just recording things through a camera.
>music Art>animationArt>story tellingArt>character buildingArt>world buildingArt>visual mediaArt>put it all together and add interactivity Somehow not art
>>736736816So true mr freak jaw went back on the statement
>>736737879movies are art
>>736737846Why can't electronic toys be art? If a child's finger painting is called "art" then videogames definitely are.
>>736737898because it is intented to be played
>>736737925Nah. Using a camera isn't art.
>>736737898congrats you found the disqualifying quality the same way that those things can be present in board games, but monopoly isn't art
Art should comfort the celibate and disturb the incelibate.
>>736738004>making something interactive suddenly makes it not artExplain
>>736737978So?
>>736738046not just interactive but more accurately having rules and a win/loss state. you can't win or lose art it's purely experiential.
>>736737879Subarashi!
>>736736816games are the highest form of art available to life itself
>>736738004Monopoly isn't the same thing as a video game though, there is no virtual world, there is no music, there is no story.
Who the fuck cares what an obstinate lead poisoned retarded jew boomer thinks art is?
>>736736816I feel like Ebert must have always been talking about capital-A 'Art' and not the actual definition or process of art and even then I feel like it's weak. Just about any argument that could be used to discredit games as art or 'Art' would then disqualify an entire field that is usually considered to be both.>videogames are disqualified because the interactive nature does not guarantee how the user perceives the mediumThis disqualifies museums (can walk about however you want), any interactive art exhibits, if a movie has more than one cut or version then it's called into question, Shakespeare plays had audience participation sometimes>videogames are disqualified because they are published or designed for mass consumptionDisqualifies many films, pieces of architecture, and books that would otherwise be considered the forefront of artistic expression in their field>videogames are disqualified because they do not say anything about human nature (Ebert used this one)You cannot engage in any act of creation without revealing implicit ideas and biases of human perception>videogames are disqualified because they simply aren't good enough (Ebert used this one too)Go ahead and disqualify 95% of art then, I've seen the shit they make
>>736738098But does it really have a “lose” state? You’re playing it for entertainment or whatever nonetheless whether you lose or win within the game. If a piece of artwork gave you a “you lose” or “you win” rating at random every time you looked at it would they suddenly not be art?
>>736737898>>736737978>>736738004>>736738098A Gesamtkunstwerk (German: [ɡəˈzamtˌkʊnstvɛʁk] , 'total work of art',[1] 'ideal work of art',[2] 'universal artwork',[3] 'synthesis of the arts', 'comprehensive artwork', or 'all-embracing art form') is a work of art that makes use of all or many art forms or strives to do so. The term is a German loanword accepted in English as a term in aesthetics.
>>736738098Nah, that's just a rule you arbitrarily made up.
Monopoly and board games literally are art, the box is art, the minatures are art, the cards and board are art.
>>736736816Gamers like to pretend that video games are art right up until the point that somebody tries to critically analyze video games as though they were art. Then they claim that video games are just toys and people shouldn't be looking to deeply into them.
>>736738180monopoly is a game. games aren't art
>>736738268The issue with that criticism is that it's goal is censorship.
Oh yeah? Well art can never be video games either.
>>736736816You can't make Art if you're more concerned about making money than making a good work of art. This is true for books (Brandon Sanderson), movies (every marvel movie released in the last 30 years) and music (pop 'music'), at least. Plenty of great, well-made videogames were developed by people who didn't expect them to become commercially succesful, I would say that those games are worthy of being considered art.
>>736738324It's a board game, not a video game. Also, you are using circular logic. You never justified why games can't be art.
people nowadays consider trannyfrogs to be "art". Who cares? It's a meaningless buzzword
>>736738365I agree, but that means videogames are art, just not all of them, like books
>>736736816I'm okay with this, the people who claim "videogames are art" or "videogames should be considered as an art form" usually make the most boring games
>>736738435Yeah, I completely agree.
If an upside down urinal or blank canvas can be “art” the visuals possible in video games can be art But threadly reminder that artsy fartsy games are trash and/or walking sims and you should be fine if video games aren’t considered art
>>736738464Yes, they want to make movies like tlou or nu gow instead cool gamesThe point of videogames is to inteact with it
>>736736816they may not be art but they sure make your jaw drop
Why would you want your favorite video game held in the same light as some whore shoving tubes of paint up her ass and shitting it all back out onto a canvas?
>>736738814I actually want my favorite videogame to be held in the same light as The Dog by Goya, thank you very much.
Art reproduces the eternal ideas that it has conceived through pure contemplation, that is to say, the essential and permanent of all the phenomena of the world.Schoppi
>>736738814Because my favorite game deserve to be in a museum and studied.
>>736736816He ain’t wrong. Videogames are toys. Nothing wrong with enjoying toys, but that’s what they are.
>>736737814Art has no purpose or meaning than the one we give it ourself. Art wont have rules, objectives, mechanics. Games have those
>>736738934Disco Elysium, my favorite toy.
>>736738205Pop up books are also interactive and are definitely art.
>>736736816Architecture and illustration are the only arts I can still enjoy and I say that as someone with 2tb of mp3 on a NAS who used to listen to music at least 6 hours a day.Not interested in watching people dance, 99% of books are garbage and a waste of time you could've spent actually reading other things and learning, cinema has been dead for at least a decade now and it keeps getting worse.Being called an art isn't necessarily a good thing in my book and I care more about my opinion than the one of a dead faggot who made his living as a grifter, if he was born as a millenial/zoomer he would be an e-celeb making inane videos.
>>736738365The patron system kinda contradicts thisMaybe they still wanted to pursue greatness but they still did it for a living
What even is art?
>>736738975>Art wont have rules, objectives, mechanicsThat's something you arbitrarily made up. There's no reason why art can't have those things. Also, video games don't really have purpose either, they are entertainment
>>736737075Is playing scrabble art? Is playing monopoly art? What about hungry hungry hippos? No, they’re not, they’re games. Just because that game is on a screen doesn't make it art.
>>736738098Why does that make it not art? Just because you say so?
>>736739079>lel everything is art guiz!!!!!You are worthless to talk to
>>736739071In actual language, any human creative work is often referred to as art.So even a child's painting is art. This is why the fags who constantly try to say that video games aren't art are stupid.
>>736739121>why aren't I a women? just because you say so? yes. definitions and categories are ultimately arbitrary and art is a social construct, as are games
>>736739034Not really. You paint your patron as a super attractive guy once in a while, he gives you money, then you go back to sculpting naked men or women or whatever else you really wanted to do. The paintings you make of your patron and his family aren't really "Art" but the sculptures you passionately made on the side sure are, in this example.
>>736739079well video game purpose are entertainment like you said or serious game
Fortnite is not art, Majora's Mask is art/thread
>>736739162>Everything is art In actual language and every day use, any human creative work that isn't purely practical in nature of is often referred to as art. Paintings, books, movies, sculptures, dance, etc. Video Games fit that mould. You are an idiot who is making up arbitrary disqualifiers in your head.
>>736739247You still have to logically explain why you make that distinction otherwise you’re just being a schizo
>>736739378I have. rules and win/loss states disqualify something from being art
>>736736816If dadaism is art, then anything is art
>>736739261Literally every form of art’s main purpose is some form of entertainment you retard
Mother 3 is art.
>>736736994Stuff I like.
>>736738814Art enjoys legal privileges, that's reason enough to make the claim.
>>736739420No you haven't.
>>736739420How?
>>736736816>film can never be art, just look at Seth Rogan movies, they're literally the opposite of art
>>736739557certified art
>>736739537>>736739543You lost already, incels. Your toys will never be art :)
>>736737141>>736737189Game rules add and change context in the same way that editing does.>Oh but it's not the same from person to personGame rules are generally more consistent from person to person than something like music choice, which is going to change based on what that person has heard before.>>736738004Monopoly isn't art, but the game it is based on, the Landlord's game, is art.It seeks to invoke pathos with Georgeist propaganda by getting people familiar with the system through play. Of course the only thing that has survived is the variant that wastes hours of time and ruins friendships.>>736739420Not every game has a Win/Loss state.>>736738975Art constantly guides people to specific meanings.>>736738746>Artistic >Movie >GamesThey are neither artistic, nor do they make use of the strengths of Kinema, nor do they make use of the strengths of ludo. They are purely lowest common denominator slop products and the phrase "cinematic games" was used pejoratively due to their piss poor performance.>>736739256The patron system is only art if you draw your patron as a fat ugly bastard for NTR fiction.
>>736738975>Art wont have rules, objectives, mechanics.extremely incorrect on several levels. 'Art' is an extremely broad term that can refer to theater, music, painting, sculpting, etc. And each of these art forms has their own rules (painting is done on a solid surface, music uses sound, a sculptor needs to shape some kind of raw material, etc.). An artist often does have an objective, like wanting to depict something or someone in a certain light or wanting to share a specific emotion.
>>736738814I want the tax advantages on my old nes games
>>736736816So what
>>736739612I see you gave up. Concession accepted then. Bye
>>736739612More artistic than recording things with a camera.
>>736738975>Art has no purpose or meaning than the one we give it ourself.We got it, you like Nabokov, but i prefer Dostoevsky.
>>736736816>opinion so shit God gave him cancer
>>736738975So I can draw and call myself a sculptor ?>No because to be a sculptor you need toThen art have rule
But videogames have already been used for money laundering and scams?
>>736739261>video game purpose are entertainmentYes same for movies
>>736739851Yeah, think of Pokemon
>>736738268i can't remember the last time someone "criticized" something and it wasn't the most generic nondescript list of things they didn't like rather than a critiquefor a critique you accept things as they are and offer observations ok how to improve what it is, not what you wantmany midwits fail this test and thus here we are
>>736736816video games are closer to sports and board games than art. I think ebert compared them to chess and basketball specifically
>>736739851yes, gachas, especially uma musume
>>736739923Chess is art, basketball is not.
>>736739961Chess is not art, it's mathematics.
>>736736816Is that a ai pic of roger ebert or did he just look that fucked up at the end?
Literally who? Get your eceleb shit out of here.
>>736739961chess is e-sports, moron
>>736739961why?
>>736737346Go back, shartynigger
>>736739441its not
>>736739923Sports and board games don't really have virtual worlds, music, story, etc. as an inherent part of them.At a base level, video games can be considered to be the art of making virtual worlds
>>736740216i don't see why that matters. dungeons and dragons has those qualities but is considered a game and not art
>>736740338D&D doesn't have a story, it's a tool to make one. Minecraft is not art either, it's a tool
>>736740338The act of playing DnD or other TTRPGs isn't an art, but worldbuilding and drawing stuff for your campaign or your character is art.
>>736740338Dungeons and dragons doesn't have an actual virtual world, in the same way a game does. It's purely text based or presented like a board game. Also, dnd involves roleplaying, which is like acting. So dnd can be considered a form of collaborative art.
All art is gayNot all video games are gayTherefore vidya isn't art
>>736740523The act of playing dnd can be an art, because it can be like collaborative story telling and involves roleplaying (acting)
>>736740489modules do, no?>>736740523I agree. same as a sprite or box is art but the game itself is not >>736740526when recorded and uploaded a la critical roll i think it qualiies as art. not dnd itself though
>>736740489Minecraft isn't art because it's procedurally generated.
>>736739998He looked far worse at the end, the pic is either touched up to hide his melting jaw or maybe from before he was a dead man walking
>>736738975Architecture isn't art?
>>736740627Nah, I would say that even if you don't record it, it can still be art. You don't have to publish art for it to be art.
>>736740575That is indeed true.
>>736736816jawless bitch, rip in piss
>>736736816That guy had no self awareness. Imagine being a film critic - itself a medium met with derision by adherents of the ancient "high arts" - and thinking you get to be the arbiter of what is and isn't art.
This guy was always right. The best games of all time (Nintendo games) make no pretense around this. All the shittiest games try to have retarded stories and look like movies. Video games are just toys, there's nothing wrong with that. It's only embarrassing when those toys are marketed to "adults"
>>736736816Your generation can't define what a woman is, try tackling that before the meaning of art.
>>736739996>>736739998>>736740061Chess pieces are literally minature sculptures, people collect chess boards and pieces because they like how they look.
>>736739107You can put a monopoly board in an art gallery and call it art though
Dunning-Kruger thread
>>736736816Art is subjective. This is a useless opinion piece from someone who has probably never touched a video game in their life. Who cares?
why do you want video games to be art?
>>736741117can you help us find if vg are art or not, please? Thats what we're trying to do here
>>736741253If everything is art then nothing is.>>736741271Because my favorite games deserve to be in a museum and studied.
>>736741117ironically what people generally call the dunning-kruger effect is a misinterpretation of Dunning and Kruger's actual research, which just showed that people tend to rate themselves closer to what they perceive to be average than they actually are. In other words, people who are extremely unskilled in a specific area are unlikely to consider themselves above average in said area, but they'd consider themselves closer to being average than they actually are.
Video game journalism can never be journalism.
>>736739363>LEL EVERYTHING IS ARTlol expected
Is this thread art?
>>736741390>Because my favorite games deserve to be in a museum and studied.Some games already are in museums these days. Last year my local art museum had a bunch of retro games and consoles on display. It was neat.
>>736741712Beautiful
Why is it sopposed to be a bad thing for something not to be "art".It's not a diss or shameful. No one gives a fuck niggers.
>>736736816>p-please respect this dead boomer's random opinionanything can be art if it's done artfully
What difference would it make either way?
>>736741791"art" is a codeword for "acceptable for normoids to enjoy"remember than normoids are terrified of the idea that someone might think something they do is childish, so if they like games they have to put on this faggy little attitude of "no they're not games they're interactive artforms"
>>736739557I beat Emerald with Wurmple as my hair pokemon. It wasn't great.
>>736737389Made for BWC
>>736738268This>>736739901Because gamers don’t perceive or understand art and developers don’t provide it
Cinema is not art either, and people that consider themselves intellectuals because they watch movies are beyond retarded.
>>736736816How does one even get cancer in their jaw?
Gamers experience far too much narcissistic injury to participate in art
>>736742370Unironically eating ass
>>736741070wrong, they like how each different piece tastes differentchees is not a game, it's a buffet
>>736742061Lmfao what a spiteful little retard you are. Holy hell man you don’t even claim to have your own idea of artistry?
>>736742370Smoking
>>736742446He ate one too many of Siskel's kosher braps.
Roger Ebert was shooting fish in a barrel for free publicity because he was insecure about his jaw going missingGuy got shoveled a ton of video games and went "no lol", he was floating his vapid opinion into the aether and got a missing jaw about it when he got a rebuttal
>>736736816hes right though and all i do is play video games
If this is how you handle the most basic of interrogation, its no wonder you’re not considered an art audience
>draw naked womanle art>draw naked anime womanEVIL COOMER PEDO REEEEEEEE
>>736742836Hey man don't burst a jaw blood vessel
Define artDefine retroDefine gameplayDefine video game
>>736738975Are objectives the point of the game? What about speedrunning? What about the way people play RPGs, where they just run around doing random shit instead of completing quests? What about arbitrary and self-imposed challenges?
>>736740124It is. Experiencing profound emotions or messages, being scared, being moved, those are all forms of entertainment
If building architecture can be art (and it is) despite being utilitarian, games can be art despite having a rule-objective structure. Also, games don’t always have rules, objectives, and/or fail states. This is at the behest of the creator. Look at Commander Blood.
I don't want my video games associated with "art". Art is hollywood and nonsense paintings for billionaires to use as bank notes. If someone like Ebert considered most movies to be art, then I don't want video games to be art because the standards would be lower than they are now.
VIDEOGAMES ARE A CRAFT FIRST, THEN ART SECONDIF IT WAS PRIMARILY ART, THERE WOULDN'T BE SUCH THING AS A BADLY MADE OR WELL MADE VIDEOGAME.CRAFT = TECHNIQUEART = EXPRESSION
>>736743067What exactly makes you categorize art as only the most expensive shit
>>736743082The analogy works well with the chair example of craft vs art. For the craftsman, he has to at least make the chair functionable and woven into his idea of aesthetics. For the artist (the purest sense of it), he merely needs to make something or nothing about a chair, it doesn't even need to resemble any notion of a chair, the artist simply wills it as one.
>>736736816real talk is that 'video games' will never be art because you can't dodge high levels of tax using video games as a medium. That is why this flex exists.
>>736742518Cheese is art. Food is art. Food = video games, therefore video games are art. Hope that smarmy retarded boomer jew is doing cartwheels in his grave
>>736736816Casinos manipulates art and artists to get people to spend more too, who the fuck do you think designs the slots.All the other arguments can be made about tv shows, movies or are arbitrary.
>>736737913This. He explicitly took it back
>>736736994Banana taped to wall
>>736742839I think anyone would say naked Rei Ayanami in EoE has artistic merit. But the hentai you watch at night doesn't.
>>736738205>MuseumsActually great example. Museums contain art, and architecture is art, but the museum itself isn't art.
>>736736816False. You can say or think what you want, but Elden Ring is a work of art. So is Ragnarok Online. Suikiden 2 as well.
>>736743368Hey dont lump in actually good games like suikoden 2 with gigaslop like elden cringe
>>736738365Book writers, musicians and movie directors make stuff to put food on table.
>>736736816More artful than slopnema, at any rate
All of human creation with even the slightest modicum of intentional aesthetic or philosophical design is art. Paintings are art. Music is art. Architecture is art. Furniture is art. Logos are art. Advertisements are art. Underwear is art.License plates are art. Trash cans are art. Soup is art.Roads are art. Toilets are art.I could even argue that things which are designed from an exclusively practical standpoint, such as hand grenades and girders are still art.
>>736741081At which point it would no longer be a game and very well could be considered art.
>>736742978hmmmmm but it doesn't mean EVERY entertainment are art, right?
>>736736816There can be art in a videogame, but a game as a whole is in the game category, not the art category. How can this still be hard to understand?
Was this dude even an art critic? Wasn't he a film critic? Who fucking cares what he thought?
It's hard to argue for video games being art when the current trend is to pillage through older successful games and "remake" them implying that the existing older games are outdated and not worthwhile. In that way games are looked at more as machines and products.However, it is even harder to defend film as art when shit like the Mario Galaxy movie or Marvel movies exist. And also worth mentioning that remaking existing movies with more CGI and less artistry is already a very prevailing thing that film studios do.
>>736736816There can be art in a book, but a book as a whole is in the book category, not the art category. How can this still be hard to understand?
>>736736816I like how fags who can't make art just settle down to criticizing art.Those who can't, crit
ITT define define
>>736742553Not him but hes right, the whole "video games are art" trend started when they wanted the medium to be taken more seriously and not a child's hobby
>>736743443Brandon Sanderson. We know he is capable of making good fantasy books, his earlier works are genuinely pretty good, his worldbuilding was (arguably) art. However once he became successful he starting out pumping out slop to maximize his revenue since he knows people will buy his books no matter what as long as they're at least mediocre. Many 'mainstream' musicians clearly do not give a single shit about what they make (Taylor Swift, Bad Bunny), they once again are simply pumping out slop to maximize their profits. And I seriously doubt Matt Shakman is genuinely passionate about the Fantastic Four, he's just there to make sure the movie turns out presentable.Artists who actually DO care about their works are people like Pynchon, Poulenc or Coppola. People who almost certainly could have made more money had they decided to appeal to a wider audience, but chose not to. They still obviously made some money, enough to put food on the table, but it's not like they weren't primarily doing it for the love of the game. Just look at Apocalypse Now, no one in their right mind would have ever made that movie if they just wanted to make money.
>>736736816>honestly, this isn't just true, it's giga true, just look at gook coomgacha, it's literally the opposite of artAnd soulless remake #7978476541 is what, exactly?
>>736744046When Sakaguchi ruined Square forever with a shit movie because he thought games weren't art when a simple FF6 is way more artistic than your average hollywood slop?
>>736743872Literature is art. You know they make books with words in them, right?
>>736736816Lol, imagine caring about Roger Ebert's opinion
>>736744427>Literature is artAgreed, videogames can't even match this.
>>736738365Id say games that are meant to be an experience over entertainment qualify for the 'art' category. In example, the infamous tag of walking simulator was coined because games that fit into it are pretty much non-games, yet they use the medium as vehicle.
>>736744427That includes self help books, political/religious propaganda and get rich quick schemes unless you want to narrow literature down to only things you like.
>>736743882When that's not enough, it must be destroyed to prevent sensory overload!
>>736741070you can play chess by writing down moves. You dont need pieces or boards.
>>736736816Video games contain art. Making games is an art. It's really a stupid semantic conversation
>>736741712Do they let you play it? If not, they failed.
>>736745091People like to use the term as a judgement of value and get caught in the semantics. The whole discussion is very stupid, yes.
Science>>>Arts
>>736745137Not any of the home consoles but they had a handful of arcade cabinets you could play on. Pong, Pac-man and a few other ones iirc.
>>736736816>said by a man who refuses to play any gamesi agree with him, but i think it applies to movies too
>>736742061>remember than normoids are terrified of the idea that someone might think something they do is childishthats why you desperately want people to finally admit your toys are art?
>>736739998He had three different kinds of cancer, thyroid, Salivary gland and jaw bone over 10 years.>The loss of dining, not the loss of food. It may be personal, but for me, unless I'm alone, it doesn't involve dinner if it doesn't involve talking. The food and drink I can do without easily. The jokes, gossip, laughs, arguments and shared memories I miss. Sentences beginning with the words, "Remember that time?" I ran in crowds where anyone was likely to break out in a poetry recitation at any time. Me too. But not me anymore. So yes, it's sad. Maybe that's why I enjoy this blog. You don't realize it, but we're at dinner right now.His shit was completely fucked and all he could do was blog.
>just look at one corner of the entire mediumand what if i don't, retard?
>>736745194Based Canguilhem
>>736745183There are certainly games more artistic than others, like Hylics for exampleI would be less inclined to say "art piece" and more to say "interactive art" if forced to
No art is real art because art is a fake genre for money laundering and propaganda.
why are us gamers so insecure? oh no our toys aren't respected art oh no....
>>736737898>>736738226It's interesting how games are art as a medium, but the moment you start treating them as art they completely lose their value as a videogamePong and Breakout are probably the best example of pure videogames, literally just sticks and stones in pixel form, no art or creativity (technical creativity doesn't count), even Space Invaders starts getting too creative with the alien sprites
>>736736816All of art is a worthless endeavor until the explicit reject of this French Cancer.
>>736746030I like both.Authors intention and readers interpretation.
>>736745091>Making games is an art.Craft =/= art
>>736736816Yeah, what about it?Art is intentionally overrated to cost more than it's worth so games shouldn't ever be considered art
>>736736816>>736737075>>736736909>>736737256>>736737740Too bad, video games are still not art. Kneel before the Roger GODbert
>>736746137Unless youre doing the textures
>>736743979>defineTo state the meaning of a certain word, concept or object.
>>736736816Video games are not art because video game consumers are doing everything in their power to stop them from being art.
>>736736816Pure art, one of the main reasons I play games, the visuals.
>>736746535Games contain art, sure
>>736746348Not that anon but you have to divorce your thinking from having craft and art mean the same thing. You cannot "practice" art since it's about expression. You can practice various techniques (the craft part) as a better way to express your thoughts and/or feelings on the matter. So in a way, games are ART but only in how it approaches its GAMEPLAY CONCEPT, as that is its core expression for the medium, rather than how it is implemented (which would be the craft portion). Ergo, video games are MORE about the craft (how well made it is) rather than art (the game's idea) as a game cannot exist as solely an idea or a manifestation of expression, it requires at least competency at certain levels via building and execution.
>>736746535The very idea of a video game being able to be re-iterated with "quality-of-life" changes disqualifies it for being primarily a piece of art. It more resembles a craft like making a bed or pottery.
>>736746117>I like both.>Authors intention and readers interpretation.Liking is irrelevant to the discussion.
>>736736816Gacha live service slop are not video games
>>736736816I'll will post this again because I hate artfags.>>>/wsg/6124628
The idea that a game can be "video-gamey" is part of this retarded distinction of art for videogames. It's a flawed premise because the art in videogames is more about its idea rather than any aesthetics it presents. The artistry of snake is on the same level of Red Dead Redemption 2. One is not more artistic (but craft-wise, one definitely took more work than the other) than the other but industry-moguls will never see a game as simple as snake to win any awards nowadays despite both games having artistic merit.
Just another friendly reminder that you're all talking about a dead, retarded, lead poisoned old boomer jew. These kinds of people cannot learn anything new, if it wasn't around when they were young they cant do it, theyd have to be capable of learning anything.
>>736736816Who?
>>736748054The premise holds true because whoever said that "videogames are or should be more art" does not know what art actually means. What they actually meant was that they wanted videogames to have the same social and cultural prestige as art.
>>736736816He sounds like an average from soft fan.
>>736736816frankly I don't even find movies or books to be art. Only music is art.
>>736748054Druckmann, when he said that video games is a compromise between art and business, was fucking wrong. The business side is intrinsic to video games more than the art itself. Just because a company makes a game doesn't make it any less artistic. What Neil was trying to say is that it becomes LESS IMPERSONAL, which does not preclude anything from being art.
>>736748513Everything is art if there is a human being to perceive it. Art does not actually exist in a vacuum.
>>736748640No, this is how we get starving piglets as an art exhibit. Also, this >>736746030
>>736748640actually art is only what i perceive as art, you don't even come into the equation
>>736736816Who cares about what dead boomer film critic has to say? Even his taste in movies is shit.
>>736737389
>>736737925shalom
bump
>>736736816I hate this faggot and discourse around him so much>Art faggotry>Grand drastic opinion warped by his own biases on a medium he's spent less than an hour>For some reason his retarded opinion made everyone shit themselves and start hyping up every retarded movie game that think cutscenes = art
>>736750423hello saar
God gave erbet chin cancer because of what he said about video games
>>736742061>>736741791That anon is wrong. People see art as "rich nigger hobby" they think art is some refined and intelligent deal. Saying you consume art is much more impressive than saying "I watched the new star wars movie and played some mario."Anyone who goes super deep into "woah bro ART!!!!" is a pretentious faggot.
>>736736816Roger Ebert didnt literally mean that, he was basically telling game studios and developers "start taking yourselves seriously if you want people like me to respect you" and he was right
>>736736816Google, EA, Activision and Microsoft made sure games didn't become art, let's be honest.
Games are much too wide a genre to be any single thing. Like sure Fortnite isn’t art but neither is a commercial for car insurance and that’s film. There’s plenty of soulful artistic experiences in vidya if you’re not an irony poisoned retard. >name them so I can call them gay and retarded It’s not my job to tell you to connect to with a work, but there exists one for you.
>>736737141A video game doesn't have to have a win/loss state either. The problem with pseudo-intelectuals such as this guy is that they maybe touched a single game (if even that) and immediately concluded, that all games have to be exactly this, not even realizing that there are also trashy books, trashy movies, trashy music. What If I randomly pick some really stupid book to read and conclude from it "yeah uh, books can never be art because they literally just tell you what happens and leave no room for interpretation and introspection and are only about how chicks get fucked by alien-vampire dicks. My farts are smelling nice today"
saying video game is art is like saying television is art
>>736737042>Photography will never be art. Just look at instagram!
>>736738098>win loss means its not artWhy?>all games have a win loss statePlay Journey. >but when you reach the end, you wonSo when I read a book to its final page, I won? Hah, books cannot be art! >Art is purely experientialIf anything, video games have more potential to be experiential than any other media BECAUSE of how interactive they are. Your argument defeats itself.
>>736751669People do say that.
>>736752496really? didn't know
>>736746535Most people who read books are women who read bottom of the barrel smut-slop. Does this now disqualify books from being art? Consoomers will always enjoy their dumbed down, low brow slop, how does that suddenly stopd real art within the same media from existing? There are trashy movies, books, music, comics, paintings. Also, remakes aren't really much better received in vdiya than they are in movies. He tends to generalize a lot. I don't care for a bloodborne remake, all I wish for is a pc-port, and I mostly see people wishing for that exact thing, not a remake. Is he mixing something up?
pwned faggot
>>736736816If it makes you feel, it's art. It's that simple.
>>736736909>Video games stopped being art the moment its retarded consumers started yelling for more and more demakes.As if there are no bad "remakes" of paintings lmao
>>736736816I know right? Just look at concord, marathon, highguard, and other concord-likes...
>>736736994exploration of a theme in a way that sheds light on our meager understanding of it.
>>736736909FPBP, demakefags seething
>>736736816>gook coom gachaYou may not like it, but this is indeed art
>>736753671from the bottom of my heart, what the fuck is this
>win/loss statesThat's such an arbitrary "rule", one has to think if it was solely created to disqualify video games from being art.
>>736753904High art
>>736753904One of the highest forms of lewd art
>>736736816>erotic novels>literal porn movies>erotic art peicesI guess these mediums cants considered art either since it can also include goonslop.
>>736736816This guy worshiped shit in a can sold in its weight in gold His videogame opinion is mute
>>736736994Making someone feel something about an object or presentation that has no actual consequence to the world in itself.
I don't want videogames to be considered art, I want normies out and to be more of a niche again.
>>736736994>https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/art>the making of objects, images, music, etc. that are beautiful or that express feelingsThere are video games that meet this standard.
>>736753904the finest video gameage
I don't really think there is any valid argument that video games are not art or do not at least contain art, but I guess as a devils advocate you could say:The definition of art is:>the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.while there are aspects of a video game that could fulfill this definition, as a whole, a video game is a computer program, or a form of play. microsoft excel and chess are not considered art, as creating games and programming are not considered art forms. thus a video game is not art.
>>736746924Some books also get revised. Movies too, with all the remake slop we see nowadays. By your logic, those things wouldn't be art either.
>>736736816I agree with him solely because the people that care are the most obnoxious pseuds imaginable
Dark Souls is more "art" than anything called modern art.
>>736753904Around here we simply call it kino.
>>736755043So you don't like videogames, you just want to feel special.
>>736755860I understand where he's coming from. Wanting this medium to be acknowledged as "art" invites pseuds creating and praising shit like Gone Home as the peak of this medium.I want none of that.Video games have always been art. But I want none of those people art hipster shitters speaking for this medium or developers catering to them.
Plenty of games serve as fronts for large scale money laundering so games are art.
>>736756124based and true
>>736736816Pornography is art.
>>736755860It’s not that, aiming for mass appeal does more harm than good for any medium.The other anon said it well, but I’d also add that the greed-driven monetization of modern video games has ruined a big part of their development. Most normie people either don’t care or don’t hesitate to fall for such practices.
>>736756178Most female pornstars are ugly thus, pornography can't be art.
>>736736994a black woman speaking
>>736756178>erectile dysfunction>aka win/loss stateSex will never be art
>>736736816Niggas be like "videogames can never be art" then buy a painting of a straight white line on a blue background for 20 million dollars.
>>736756324Maybe your dick cannot be art, but my dick is definitely art.
>>736756402How'd you feel if you didn't have breakfast today, Mr Chadington?
>>736736994Human work of some sort, that is declared as art by an author, that sees himself as an artist. Also the work must be displayed as art to the public and be accepted as art by art critics.
My favorite art is the "4 paintings in a row" genre
>>736756649>and be accepted as art by art critics.Seems like this is the determining factor.
>>736736816Said video games can never be art and look where is he now.
>>736756178You got -stein in your name?
>art doesnt matter art has dead between the urinal art piece, the banana on canvas, invisible sculpture, self shredding painting art is no longer high brow and does not deserve the respect
video games can contain art, but they themself, never be
>>736736816>muh uhrtis a desperate argument by normies to convince themselves that they didn't squander hundreds of $ on what is essentially a overly manufactured amd overly sophisticated toyJust because many games are realistic and boring like some movies, they're still not full fledged movies, another avenue for mental gymnastics I'd much rather have something soulful and fun, made for gamers, than ArT
Artistic legitimacy has never affected a single moment of wonder in my life, definitions cannot rob me of my joy, and the intellectually empty parroting of dead talent will never have meaning
>>736736816The Mario movie is also the opposite of art, movies may still be art.
>>736737042>AAAAAA I HATE WHITE PEOPLE
>>736751624>A video game doesn't have to have a win/loss state either.It's not a game if it doesn't, you zoomerito dipshit. Don't make the fact that your parents parked you in front of Minecraft instead of actually raising you as if they loved you everyone else's problem
>>736753671>>736754092>>736754136>>736755349
>>736755558>knives are a form of utensil, like spoons>spoons are not weapons>therefore knives aren't weapons
>>736758348who gives a shit about what that epstien asset said
>>736736816It's entirely false and has always been so. I don't know who that dude is supposed to be but I'm willing to bet he has never properly played a video game from start to finish in his entire life and as such as wholly and completely unqualified to speak about them beyond offering some personal opinion based on nothing but external influence.
>>736755043Video games objectively peaked when they were made by "normies" (the triple digit IQ socially competent White Men that rightly bullied you for being a scrawny little weird cretin) and for "normies" (those same triple digit IQ White Men). You are a poisonous eternal loser, assmad that more physically fit and therefore better people than you, who didn't smell like wankcheese, crushed all of that hot sweet jailbait p00n in highschool, despite at least pushing 30 yourself, and want to enshittify things so they can no longer enjoy them out of a petty seething resentment. And even though you'll be dead soon, by your own hand, everyone who has ever met you will only be annoyed that it didn't happen sooner.
>>736736909>acting like remakes are video game-exclusive commercialization in response to a statement made by a FILM criticretard
>>736758923Cool, post the next chapter of your fanfiction in the next thread and tell me how your battle pass is going there too
