>"I swear he's a time traveling android, the lore is so crazy and unique!">"he's like super racist and just wants to genocide every mer">you can actually meet his ghost in game>he's just a normal dude who fought the elves to free humans from slaveryDo lorefags actually play TES games?
He's me actually
>>736800237>I swear he's a time traveling androidThe early TES games were bootstrapped on a game engine made for Terminator license slop, so yeah literally he is.
>TES>lore
>>736800237Normal dudes don't want to kill anyone
That's everything in TES>dude morrowind lore is crazy bro there's moon bases and heckin moth cities the size of a planet>never see a single glimpse of any of it in gameHonestly, why should lorefags play the game when none of the lore is visualized anyway? You might as well just dive into the wiki.
>>736800237>oblivion is gay, retarded, flanderized and shits on established loreYes, thanks for pointing it out.
>>736801358Gameplay is canon, lore is gay fanfic. It would be like saying reality is gay, retarded, flanderized and shits on the Bible.
>>736801473Damn, can't believe the largest city in Tamriel canonically has a population of 100
>>736800381>dude morrowind lore is crazy bro there's moon bases and heckin moth cities the size of a planetThat's retarded, so I guess the game is actually an improvement.
>>736801473Books are canon, and Pelinal would have random bouts of GENOCIDE THE ELVES on his mind he wasn't like that 24/7.
>>736801473>high rock and hammerfell are canonically the size of england while the other provinces are each smaller than a single real life cityhow do they even explain the fact that's never represented in the maps we're shown?
>>736801558>>736801681>>736801694Engine limitations have nothing to do with actual characters represented in game. There's nothing stopping the devs from making Pelinal le epic cyborg. They didn't because it's not the "real" Pelinal.>Books are canonThe only "canon" part about the books is that they exist in the universe. There's nothing proving everything written in them is actually true. The pic you posted even begins with "And it is said...". The fact that you meet Pelinal and has nothing to do with the ramblings of lorefags proves that the content of the books isn't necessarily canon.
>>736801956>There's nothing stopping the devs from making Pelinal le epic cyborgThere is though. The fact that Bethesda is lazy and doesn't wanna do things they don't absolutely need to do. The same reason Sanguine shows up in Skyrim as a generic Dremora rather than a fat satyr he's depicted as in the earlier games: because Bethesda is not gonna make an entire special model for a character who appears for 5 seconds
>>736800237Personally I find the "Pelinal is a robot" thing to be the lamest of all answers. There's something so unimaginative about it.
>that one animation of Pelinal that was deleted because the creator went insane or somethingI wonder what ever happened with that.
>>736802712the creator went insane or something
I'm glad someone said fuck the lore what's in game is the only thing that matters
>>736800237>>736802343>Outing yourselves as zoomersIts a heroes of might and magic reference you double nigger
>be junkie Kikebride>write babys first gnostic buddhist philosophies fuelled by dmt>be hailed a genius
>>736803669You are not getting away by calling me a zoomer, Pelinal being a T-800 instead of something more abstract is lame as hell.I don't know why even Kirkbride is fond of that concept, the homosexual part I get it, but the robot part? That's just boring, he's not even an animunculi of the dwemer, those guys created life through the negation of noumena and phenomena.
>>736800237The Pelinel books reference how there's dragon breaks and also time loops.Basically the Empire sends a champion from the future to aid in the creation of the empire. In one he's just a man suped up on so many buffs that the gods can't control him. In another he was a Terminator from an Empire that was Sci-Fi. In the one you saw in Oblivion he was just an ordinary Imperial. They wrote Pelinel to be vague enough to represent you, to the point that Kirkbride was told to roll back a statement saying Pelinel was a fag.
>>736803761Plenty of writers in the 90s and early 2000s were as zany as kirkbride. Soul reaver is one example. Time distortions and mixing sci-fi and fantasy was the norm back in the day. It's only remembered because Skyrim was released in 2011, and kinda referenced the cooler lore. Since 2007 there hasn't been a game that was as interesting since that era
>>736801358Pelinal didn't exist UNTIL Oblivion you massive retard
>>736804368Not true, Pelinal and his role in the Alessian Slave Rebellion were first mentioned in the Pocket Guide to the Empire, which was the lore book that came with The Elder Scrolls Adventure: Redguard, and was then sporadically mentioned in a few Morrowind books as an ancient great hero of unspecified deeds. It's true that the Song of Pelinal books, which focuses on him specifically, debuted in Oblivion though
>>736802712He got mod that people were considering his works to be TES related instead of Michael Kirkbride inspired.
>>736800237Mer agents are spreading fake rumors of him being a homosexual.
>>736800237>listening to """lore""" from R*ddit secondariesI seriously hope you guys don't do this.
>>736801681>Like when the dream no longer needs its dreamer
>>736808118
>>736800237I'm convinced most lorefags in general do not actually play games
>>736800237>a person notorious for murderous discrimination against another race denies he did any more killing of that race than he had to when all evidence says otherwiseColour me shocked
>>736801358Will morrowtroons ever be un-buckbroken by Todd going "I love Lord of the Rings! Fuck morrowshit pajeet aesthetics lol!" one morning?
>>736808243It used to be like that a long time ago but now talking about video game lore has become some kind of purely social hobby for normalfags who are desperate to be a part of something and watch youtube videos and make memes about it. Idgi.
>>736800237>>736800381>>736801358It's all so painful.
>>736800381Because reading wiki pages with atmospheric music in the background is how they make money.
>>736801681>>736808118A line so good it brings literal tears to my eyes just thinking about it.
BY THE GODS THERES A PSYCHOPATH ON THE LOOSE
>>736811238This movie was loved by Germans in 00s. (Especially the liberals.)
>>736803761TES is the best example of understanding comparative religion, and meta archetypes present in religion, period. Better than anything written in any book, fiction or non fiction. Most people just don't know history well enough to appreciate the depth of TES3-5s actually good pieces of writing.
>>736800237The myth is bigger than the man. That's how it works.It's unlikely Alexander the Great did half the shit he's famous for.
>>736811432lol please. If anything religions always were Elder Scroll's weakpoint shoved aside for other things as a footnote other than when you interacted with Daedric forces.
>>736811502Untrue.TES has a near perfect understanding of what were at the time nasceant topics of history such as the actual rise of monotheism, its interactions with Polytheism, the metaphysics of both 'groups' and wherein conflicts arose, and the actual implication of the metaphysics behind the speech. It also has a perfect understanding of Buddhism untainted by western translation, all of it maps perfectly to real life nuances in a way that leaves no room for doubt, while still adding in its own new fantastical ideas.TES is actually the most anti Judeo-Christian series ever produced.
>>736802343https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/748601So I found out this guy killed his own channel or something. privated deleted everything.
>>736811456No Alexander the great woke me up one night and told me he did everything they say he did. Then he called Todd Howard the only living equivalent to himself.
I dont like TES lore. It insists upon itself, it's weird for the sake of being weird.Also Vivec is a reflection of Kirkbride's wishes to be God. Vivec wants to experience reality from all perspectives, he wants to be everyone at the same time. Kirk came up with c0da, which basically makes all imagined truths canon to TES lore. There is no real unified narrative to this universe, it tries to be something more than it is. Which is just fiction.
>>736811802>It insists upon itselfMeans nothing. Please die.
why does kirkbride love genocide so much?
>>736811914>Suffering genocidelame and gay>committing genocidebased and red pilled.
>>736811836Didn't your parents teach you to be polite?
>>736811619>Leftist babble.Not intriguing; The cults and practices of Conan's Hyperborean Age are more interesting. Can you not answer yet the riddle of steel or you still a mere child?
>>736812137Nah, TES is written way more intelligently, the sorrow of that fact is that it filters most people. Like 99% of /v/ who played Morrowind could not tell you what the Daedra represent as opposed to the Aedra, yet it's the most ingenious symbolism in the game, and a perfect reversal of all of Judaic influence on Polytheism, and understanding Daedric nature, vs Aedric, vs Anuic gives a far more powerful answer to anything Conan covers (including what you quoted) just through the 'origin story' alone.There's no need to be vague, all of it lays out into very obvious and explicit philosophy and Theology.
>>736811432TES religion is a watered down ripoff of Glorantha/Runequest thobeit.
>>736812479Literally who
>>736812412And that's why its sugar coated shit."You see these daedric beings are just misunderstood entities; some of them just want to help humanity whilst others want to destroy them! They aren't demons." Pretentious shit. Literally no difference between that and original SMT.
>>736812553>>"You see these daedric beings are just misunderstood entities; some of them just want to help humanity whilst others want to destroy them! They aren't demons." Pretentious shit. Literally no difference between that and original SMT.You didn't play TESDaedra are "Demonized" in a reference to the Demonization of Greek/Roman Gods by Christiansthe Daedra are in actuality representing the 'wildness' Archetypal to polytheism that Christians criticize ('oh no Zeus is a rapist, Aphrodite is promiscuous') but from an inverted perspective, wherein the Polytheist Gods exist as forces of nature that spite the 'Aedra' and are eternal, while the Anuic are temporal.Anuic entities are based on proto-Judaic ideas of AngelsThe creation of Nirn involves the Daedra tricking the Aedra into trapping themselves in their own ideals, turning them into weaker entities that have to participate in Nirn.That's why there's no monotheism in TES (outside the dead Alessian order) because the Aedra are actually the 'rape babies' of Daedra (polytheistic Gods) and Anuic "Angels"
>>736812532RPG popular in the 80s/early 90s. It was briefly a rival to D&D except written by people with a background in comparative religion instead of pulp fantasy. It had one somewhat popular video game, King of Dragon Pass.
>>736812785yeah this is cool and kino but modern TES games are about picking flowers and playing the sims in you player house which is why all this cool lore is wasted on this franchise
>play game>none of that crazy lore relevant for my play session>you just fight random bandits and trolls and shitwhats the point
>>736812785>judeo-christian deities... le dumb and weak!So it's SMT but with an extra layer of post modern godlessness?
>the most interesting bits of lore were written by one guy who locked himself in his apartment and OD'dWhat does this say about the series?
>>736813195That it has soul until TES6 unsouls it.
>>736813192Stop taking fictional stories personally. It's just cool ideas.
C0DA was proof that Kirkbride should've stayed, and they should've funded almost any of his ideas with a caveat that he'd get a small army of tard-wranglers to keep him from writing his gnostic futa rape fanfiction. At the very least, he isn't a boring writer.
>>736812785But jews turned mesopotamian gods into demons, not the greek/roman ones. By the time christians appeared in the picture, the most prominent cult in Rome was mithraism. Nothing to do with Zeus and the like.Also, everything you're saying is simply not an interesting or nuanced take on theology. It's literally just religion.
>>736800237Why would his augmentations show up on his ghost? Penial's physical body was borged up, and he lost that all when he was parted from it.
>>736801681>>736808118This was the moment pelinal was asking himself if all was real or not.This is the same melancholy Sotha Sil and Vivec fell for a while til both understood whom they are.You may learn the truth, but will you endure?>>736801956Yet, Solstheim kinda throws a pelinal reference at you with the heartstones being red shaped stones born out of vvardenfel's eruption, than can bring life and also act as life force for bodies.It makes you wonder if the Amulet of Kings whom unironically looks like Pelinal's Heart is a Heartstone.Because Akatosh is the king of timeline paradoxes
>>736813612Wrong on all acounts1. Jews did not have "Demons". They did 'insult and denigrate' all foreign Gods, as Jews do. Daemons are a Greek concept meaning lower spirit. When Christianity overtook Rome, Christians invented Demons, which is what they called the Greek Gods, and the irony was supposed to be calling Gods 'lesser than the Jewish Yahweh'2. Mithradism was a cult inside Rome but Sol Invictus was 'still polytheist' and the dominant religion. Mithradism is associated with the Sun and Zoroastrianism (and ergo Sol Invictus, there was a whole Roman Plot to make monotheism paralleled in TES by the Alessian Order, which fails in TES).Interestingly, the Pure-Anuic Magna-Ge (as opposed to the Anu-Padomaic Aedra) are the ones who created the Sun and Stars around Nirn as they left it. Also "MIthardism had nothing to do with Zeus" the Mithradic foundational myth was MITHRAS KILLING ZEUS (or Zeus' stand in).Magi and Magic stems from the Zoroastrian Priests called Mags. They were the ones who taught Jesus about Religion in the Bible too.3. TES as a series clearly poses the Padomaic forces as superior, but that the 'average person' only wants to interact with the Anu-Padomaic watered down version and finds the Padomaic Daedra who are more brutally honest about their nature and existence too scary. This parallels the notion that Abrahamic religions/monotheism were for the masses and the weak, while the Hellenist and Polytheist religions were for the wise and strong, a notion spread by Christianity itself :^) - only dashed with Buddhist transcendentalism. This is also seen in the 'occult' sphere in a subgenre now lost to time, but if you know you know.The Tribunal fails because while OG having embodied Padomaic ideals, they regress into Anuic desires which is why the Daedra dispose of them.Also the Altmers racial views of supremacy and views on Nirn as 'promised to them by God' is the same view Jews have, and is based on the Jew version of the 10 commandments.
>>736814353>Also the Altmers racial views of supremacy and views on Nirn as 'promised to them by God'I though they believe they're actually divine creatures who became mortals after Lorkhan tricked the other gods to create Nirn.
>>736814353Also>TES as a series clearly poses the Padomaic forces as superiorBut Akatosh beats Mehrunes Dagon.
>>736815247Its both and more. Altmer practice eugenics too, as well as selective in-group selection, many think its inspired by Nazi Germany but most of it is also stuff that's similar to things in the Old Testament.
>>736800381It's not particularly weird. A huge amount of fantasy settings have sci-fi , cosmic, outer space and technology elements. Warcraft, dungeons and dragons, final fantasy, ultima, wizardry.... Sci-fi and fantasy literally started out as the same genre in pulp magazines. You'd have evil wizards on Mars in 'scifi' stories and you'd have aliens randomly show up in 'fantasy' stories. There was no point distinguishing because they were both just crazy fiction with imaginative bullshit.Bethesda makes stories so incredibly lame and generic that you've been conditioned to expect nothing interesting from them, so the bare minimum sticks out and seems weird. Look at starfield. No flavor or intrigue at all. It's like an unsalted flour cracker. Bethesda worldbuilding has always been this kind of dorky bare minimum effort. Morrowind was just a mishmash of dune, star wars, and the dark crystal, which are also normie core. Basically you're fucking retarded bitch.
>>736815427There's a subplot to this, that is not elaborated upon in TES5 but is mostly implied by Mankar Cammoran, Martin and background lore about DaedraEssentially, the Padomaic purpose of Nirn is to make Gods. Pressuring Nirn is supposed to make better Gods. This included the new Sheogorath in Shivering Isles.Mankar Cammoran took the Amulet of Kings to make his own fake Daedric realm that either collapsed or 'disappeared'/wandered off upon his defeat in Paradise.The Amulet of Kings represents the covenant with Akatosh and the Heart of Lorkhan (and is made of Lorkhans Blood)Its destruction is implying the escalation of 'stakes' on Nirn, as Nirn itself evolves in response to DagonsDagons 'Princedom of Revolution' literally implies the ability to change the 'Maven' of things (the origin/seed/basis, including stuff like your race, your parents etc)Dagon is implied to be Lorkhan Tamriel his realm. This is in part an attempt at Mankar manifesting "Mehrunes Razor" onto Tamriel but is also partially true.The House of Troubles (which includes Dagon) represents the 4 "Tester" Daedra who challenge Dunmer, whom the Dunmer need to overcome. Dagon threatened the World, and Akatosh (time Paradoxes, the God of many conflicting possibilities) with the erasure of everything that was created up until now. This should remind you of the "Dark Lord vs Link the Fire" endings of Dark Souls 1The precise picture of this should be 'interpret able' based on all of this info. But the tl;dr is the Daedra are like parents to Nirn and are making myths for Nirn to raise it into a better Divinity.Also Dagon is one letter removed from Dragon. Spooky.
>>736813159The UESP lore is non-canon, the only canon lore are from books.>but m-m-muh main loreman writerDoesn't matter, he's just a hired hand that Bethesda hires and then fires. Anything that isn't in the game is fanfiction.
>>736811802Real life mythology from Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, buddhism, practically any human mythology or culture you can think of have weirder shit than TES does.Really, a world with actual magic and deities should have insane lore compared to our mundane real world which already produced far weirder stuff.
>>736816162Are Mankar Cammorans Commentaries on the Mysteriums Xarxes cannon?
>>736814353>Also the Altmers racial views of supremacy and views on Nirn as 'promised to them by God' is the same view Jews have, and is based on the Jew version of the 10 commandments.This wrong. In the first place, the ideology of the Altmer supremacy is not shared by all Altmer, you are confusing their ideology with the ideology of the reformed Thalmor. They were isolationists, going as far as to join Reman only under precise guidelines, which includes having any human on their lands.Second, the ideology and religious view of the Altmer is explicit in seeing gods as nothing more than powerful spirits. They also see themselves as descendants of those great spirits.Third place, the Altmer don't consider Nirn their promised land, they consider Nirn as the arena/trap created by Lorkhan. They yearn and long for the return to the original formless void, when they were many and shapeless, being everything with everyone.>>736815557The night of the green fire is a direct reference to the Night of the Long Knives, the Thalmor are almost a 1 to 1 reference to Nazis/SS/Gestapo, not jews.
>>736816342This is wrong*Having no humans on their lands*Phoneposting sucks
>>736816342>They were isolationists, going as far as to join Reman only under precise guidelines, which includes having any human on their lands.Jews are also isolationists and ethnic supremacists. The whole shtick of the 10 commandments is that it only applies to other Jews. >Second, the ideology and religious view of the Altmer is explicit in seeing gods as nothing more than powerful spirits. They also see themselves as descendants of those great spirits."Lineage based" superiority over other races by being closer "God"(s) is a Jewish tenant. Thats why Jews are Gods chosen people, because of their lineage and later their covenant.>>Third place, the Altmer don't consider Nirn their promised land, they consider Nirn as the arena/trap created by Lorkhan. They yearn and long for the return to the original formless void, when they were many and shapeless, being everything with everyone.Sorry but this is literally what Jews believe with Israel/Judeah/the third temple. Jews literally believe Heaven is when the world is essentially destroyed and reformed into a Kingdom where God rules directly, Jews rule over non jews and Jews ascend to a higher spiritual realm.
>>736812795It's worth noting that Glorantha had a faction of people who rejected the worship of gods, studied metaphysics using logic and reason, created a giant golem machine-god and were ultimately destroyed by their hubris.Also in Glorantha people perform hero quests that emulate the persona and deeds of mythical figures, taking on the identity and mantling the mythic power of those figures.Also the world in Glorantha was formed out of conflict between primordial Order and Chaos, resulting in a Convention in which the gods established the rules of nature, such as Time.
>elden ring shows a cosmic flubber worm demiurge transform the crucified crumbling body of a transgender god kingqueen (who went at war with herself) into a twisted biological sword to fight the player with. On screen with no room for misinterpretation. Wow. Fromslop does it again. >Elder scrolls implies offscreen that a guy may have possibly been a time traveling robot. In a series where we've already seen time traveling and robots firsthand.WTF?! that's too crazy, they need to reign it in. Weird for the sake of weird. Needs to be more boring.
Well, now I wished TES had a Sol Invictus kind of cult for a new rp playthrough. That or an übermensch line of thought. I guess Talos is the closest I'll ever get.
>>736800237TES lore isn't even that good. Some of the stuff Kirkbride wrote for Morrowind was kinda neat.
>>736813338>Daedras being eternal and more powerful than Aedra is a real-life equivalent of the writers believing that humanity's vices and lowly instincts are ontological, impossible to overcome and shall always triumph over naive Judeo-christian ideals>CHIM being the buddhistic equivalent of a human attaining permanent self-sufficiency or enlightenment without God's help>The portrayal of Aedra and their followers as foolish, unassertive and guillible reflecting how the writers see christians>The subversion of Tolkien-esque tropes by taking his orcs, the embodiment of moral and spiritual corruption (thus leading to evil and sadistic behavior) and turning them into a cliche barbarian warrior race because ontological right and wrong = not smartI find the lore interesting in the sense it quite clearly reflects the writers' real life take on Christianity as being a religion for sheeple, as you stated here >>736814353TES metaphysics are Ego-centered. A few exceptional, strong-willed humans spiritually triumphing over the gods themselves and the vast majority of other humans - the worthless and dull-witted "masses" perceived to be beneath in body and mind. It's too much fart huffing for my taste, but if you enjoy it, you do you. To me, this kind of fiction is merely an elaborate power fantasy from - and for - people who loathe the idea of a monotheistic God existing. There's yet to be a fair representation of real Christianity that doesn't portray it as naive idealism, as it has been done every single time.
>>736817180Nu fans would have you believe the empire is a happy utopia of diversity and tolerance But if you actually look into it ... They are... Imperials. Conquerers. They stomped the entire continent into submission with a big fucking god-robot and made everyone their bitch while committing a million war crimes. And crimes against nature. Oblivion and Skyrim do everything they can to not bring up this fact.
>>736816823>Machine GodWhat was he called? Would like to look it up.>MantlingCan you elaborate on how Glorantha handles it? vs TES where its literally cosmic MKUltra>>Also the world in Glorantha was formed out of conflict between primordial Order and Chaos, resulting in a Convention in which the gods established the rules of nature, such as Time.This is technically not what happens in TES. Time is thrust upon the Anuic by the Padomaic. Padomaic represent Change and Permanency, while the Anuic represent Stasis and Time.>>736817180That's sorta what the Alessian Order was, and it was wiped out as to strengthen the allegorical anti-monist stance of TES. The metaphysics of TES heavily oppose the notion of Sol Invictus types, especially since the Sun in TES is Magnus leaving Mundus as to not get raped.
>>736817415>There's yet to be a fair representation of real Christianity that doesn't portray it as naive idealism, as it has been done every single time.LOTR unless you lead Silmalirion and realize its when Tolkein got blackpilled by his own worldview
>>736800237If you actually played, you'd know that the Genocidal Android Timetraveller stuff cones in the exact same book that says he was a guy who fought elves to save humans.
>>736801956They aren't making Cyborg Pelinal because the guy's been dead for 4000 years, anon.
>>736813192SMT has very simple Buddhist metaphysics, everything you see is just lesser sub-Buddhic spirits keeping people in Samsara through ideological and mythological strife. Very different from TES. The plot of the SMT games revolves around the notions that cleaning up the world in one direction or another may one day lend some peace and clarity towards the truth, in a world where every concept,>philosophical>religious>historical>archetypalor otherwise, can feed on the collective consciousness and try to kill you, and nothing can be discerned as fully true, even those guarding the secrets of the world may only have a piece of the picture. Its actually a really clever interpretation of a Shinto-Buddhist hellscape that perfectly encapsulates the absolute state of planet Earth.
I have a bunch of questions semi-related for any lorefag to answer. This guy was the shezzarine right? What exactly does that entail? I've read some people say that every player character is the shezzarine since they appear out of nowhere and have a significant impact on the world. But then how can you be the nerevarine but also the shezzarine at the same time? Was tiber septim the shezzarine? thank you for your time lorefags feel free to answer just one or all or none of these and call me gay
>>736816686>Jews are also isolationists and ethnic supremacists. The whole shtick of the 10 commandments is that it only applies to other Jews.Sure, but the Altmer are not looking to conquer Nirn, and while arrogant, the aspect of supremacy is not shared by all their people, see the Psijic Order and why the Thalmor disposed the royal house of Summerset Isles.>"Lineage based" superiority over other races by being closer "God"(s) is a Jewish tenant. Thats why Jews are Gods chosen people, because of their lineage and later their covenant.Not the same thing. The Altmer deny there's even a thing like a true god, they descend from powerful spirits, but that only means all "gods" are spirits just like them, and that anyone can ascend to be "godlike". And the idea of calling yourself superior because you descend from gods is not exclusive from the hebrews, Alexander said he was the son of Zeus, the people of Thebes from Cadmus, all the royalty from Japan from different gods, same with the Egyptians and their pharaohs. And I could go on.>Sorry but this is literally what Jews believe with Israel/Judeah/the third temple. Jews literally believe Heaven is when the world is essentially destroyed and reformed into a Kingdom where God rules directly, Jews rule over non jews and Jews ascend to a higher spiritual realm.This is completely different from what you previously said about the Altmer and being promised Nirn. The Altmer don't see Nirn as a promised land, they see Nirn as a prison, they long for a return to the Dawn era, at the same time, they are not looking to destroy reality. Again, you are confusing the ideology of the Altmer with that of the reformed Thalmor.Sorry my friend, you would have better luck comparing dunmer to jews, because they are directly inspired by ancient hebrews, mongols and even sumerians.
>>736811664I bet only half of that is true
>>736817920Shezzar and Shezzarine are 'active (genocidal)' and 'passive (wisdom spouting)' manifestations of an Anu-Padomaic Lorkhan (as opposed to the 'disappeared' Padomaic Lorkhan, who may be Sheogorath, as per the plot of Shivering Isles being used to make you a God).The only PC to be the Shezzarine is the Hero of Kvatch because he literally Mantles Pelenial, who is also Lorkhan, and Sheogorath, who is also Lorkhan (and the Sithis shaped hole) (and the Hero becomes BOTH of them in one game, something not done in any other TES). Both are mad , one in a 'anime character' sort of way, the other in a mythological Greek Dionysian Psychedelic Cult sort of way (Greek Mystery cults were famous for using psychedelics, ergo Shivering Isles aesthetic).Lorkhans purpose, and the Purpose of Mantling him is to create "God". Chim is Royalty, and Daedric Gods are "Princes". Combine this with other knowledge of metaphysics and the full pic becomes clear.There's an archetype ill mentioned known as the 'Prisioner' for the protagonists.
>>736802712>Actually had a mental breakdown because of Starfield.>Started trying to seperate his works from Bethesda and claiming that they're works of Kirkbride.>Overhype your own importance and claim that your TES aninations are somehow directly benefiting Bethesda.>When people call you out, postpone the 95% complete final episode of your series and then delete everything and change your name>Fanbase collapses and you sink into obscurityDude could've released it, then hard-pivoted to Dune and never touched TES again and he'd have a massive fanbase still.
>>736811627he threw a bitchfit over wanting to be known for his new direction in artistic creationthat newgrounds and some "pirated" versions of his shit where he can't pull DCMA are all that remain of that animation
>>736817459The god-machine:>Zistor (or Zazistor) is an artificial machine god created by the God Learners of Glorantha during the Second Age. Built in the Clanking City on Zistor Isle, it represented a blasphemous attempt to create a deity through technology and magic. It was destroyed during the Iron War but represents the pinnacle of God Learner hubris. In fairness it's much less important to the narrative than the TES equivalent.Hero questing (mantling): https://andrewloganmontgomery.blogspot.com/2018/04/heroquesting-in-runequest-some-thoughts.html?m=1
>>736818254Imagine being stuck as someone who makes content for Bethesda fans though. Or anything to do with Bethesda. That's a living hell. I would shoot myself
>>736802712give me a few minutes and I can get you an mp4 of it, if you don't want to just go to newgrounds every time
>>736818402>Imagine makes content BethesdaBut that's just a theory, a GAME theory!
>>736818492I kinds of miss the animation of of the Knights doing a charge while milkshake plays in the background.
>>736802712>>736818492in case anyone is lazy and wants their own copy of it:https://litter.catbox.moe/twaeyrs3qvjj5cu9.mp4
>>736816162>Save the in-game source that says c0da is canon and thus everything is canon
>>736818606unfortunately I came across this guy's stuff later and don't know what all was lost.I was able to go out and find pelinal on my own because I came across an watermarked youtube video (to dodge copyright)realized that meant the original was uploaded to youtube so I just needed to find a copied version in some third world part of the web.
>you shouldn't listen to the guy who wrote the only interesting shit that the games are still piggybacking off and ruining to this day, you should instead listen to the people who wrote Starfield!
>>736818000>Anon, the aspect of Supremacy is not shared by all jews either (there are Atheist Jews), that doesn't mean the religion doesn't teach them that.>No its a very Hebrew thing. Helenists (including Egyptians) claimed individual descent from Gods, but Hebrews are very explicit in believing they are literally Gods chosen people in a way no other religion on Earth claims, in a way that's very 'Nationalist' and in a way that is highlighted in Skyrim (which is where people get the Nazi comparison). Oh also there are Japanese who believe Japan is the lost tribe of Israel exactly because of that specific relation to Amaterasu (some of those people wrote Shin Megami Tensei)>The Aylieds were, and the Aldmeris view on descent into the world is very similar to the notion of the 4 Worlds in Sefirot, Kabbalah as well as the Rectifying (return) that Kabbala claims. This has a lot of similarities to the 'historic' view of Hebrews in the middle east (in regards to their relation to other deities/pantheons, Caanites, the wars fought etc), similar to the flow of the Proto Hebrews to Hebrews to their conflict with other religions to eventually Talmudism and Kabbalah. The altmer are 'promised nirn' so they can unmake it and return it to its primordial state, THAT is what paralels Jewish Apocrypha and end times theoriesIf you take all of these notions into account, which real world mythology would you say the Aldmeri most compare to?
>>736818202very interesting, thank you. I didn't know that about sheogorath. what does this make jyggalag then, also lorkhan?
>>736818492You can watch everything here on the official archive he linked on his channel.https://archive.org/details/AllINAll_YouTube_Channel_Official_ArchiveEverything here was removed because the yt algorithm was only serving his vids to an english speaking gaming audience and ignoring his new japanese language content.
>>736818402I mean, as long as he finished the literal last episode, he'd easily be free to do whatever he wanted.
>>736818764I aint that new-age idiot you are arguing with but I would like to put something out there forKirkbride was able to come up with the best stuff of the lore because he had another writer helping to act as a filter to keep him from getting too crazy.So I think there is a line to be drawn somewhere... but also fuck the post-morrowind retcons.
>>736818840You can make it if you want.
>>736818824In Greek mystery cults, it was common for initiates in the mysteries to view the world from the perspective of Gods, thats why theyd get drunk or do ergot or kykeon.Btw, there's a common motif that is used in TES as well and especially in this story, noted as the Flip Side or 'Hanged Man' principle. Essentially, things shown in one way are actually the exact opposite on a certain axis and you don't know unless you either master the archetype, learn everything or commit to the madness - it separates the 'Hylic' vs 'Gnostic' knowledge in a lot of occult practice.Sheogorath and Jyggalags conflict parallels the conflict between Anu and Padomay at first, BUT Jyggalag is Padomaic and Daedra. Jyggalag is the 'strongest' of the Daedra, who is perfect and knows everything, yet is cursed into Sheogorath. Jyggalags Obelisks are literally destroyed by inserting a Heart into them, similar to how Lorkhans Heart inserted into the Anuic destroyed the 'Anuic World'. Yet and the end of Shivering Isles, he escapes and lets you become Sheogorath - in spite this, he has no realm (and the Daedra are meant to be 16 - the Prince is the Realm). The previous Sheogorath becoming Jyggalag implies that eventually the current Sheogorath (Me) will become the perfect Jyggalag through the same beats that the story told the main thread. So in essence, its a transformation and an initiation (look up what initiation meant historically). The Padomaic are immortal and superior to the Anuic, ergo the theme of TES is about how the 'Daedric' are scarier methods by which forces beyond your comprehension help the fragile Anuic achieve true Godhood/immortality, rather than just historic recreations of mythology.Note that while a lot of beats in this story were set in Morrowind, Shivering Isles was NOT written by Michael Kirkbride, neither was KotN.Think of it as a play, and the archetypal 'Sheogorath' is playing all the roles, across many strings in space and time.
>>736804078But OP is a fag.This just creates more questions.
>>736811347I mean the overall message is still Nazis Bad.
>>736818798>Anon, the aspect of Supremacy is not shared by all jews either (there are Atheist Jews), that doesn't mean the religion doesn't teach them thatAnd the idea of supremacy is not exclusive of the jews. The fact the Thalmor are heavily inspired by Nazis, should tell you all you need to know about what party and people inspired the reformed Thalmor.>No its a very Hebrew thing. Helenists (including Egyptians) claimed individual descent from Gods, but Hebrews are very explicit in believing they are literally Gods chosen people in a way no other religion on Earth claimsNotice how you left out two things out, first the fact all Altmer don't believe in a true god, which would be Anathema to the religious mentality of the jews. Second the fact jews see themselves as chosen, not as the literal sons of God, which is different from the Altmer, the Altmer never did a covenant with a higher god/gods, they see themselves are equal to those gods, they were never chosen, they are already powerful spirits.>The altmer are 'promised nirn' so they can unmake it and return it to its primordial state, THAT is what paralels Jewish Apocrypha and end times theoriesThe Altmer were not promised anything, they consider they were tricked into forming part of the world and that Lorkhan took away their perfect chaotic form. And most of the Altmer are not looking to unmake the world, unlike the reformed Thalmor (and I keep saying reformed because the Thalmor are a really old organization and were different in other eras).You are simply wrong. It doesn't make sense the Altmer are jews because according to some kabbalistic view they are actually following orthodox jewish ideology. You are grasping straws.>If you take all of these notions into account, which real world mythology would you say the Aldmeri most compare to?Gnosticism, in specific Greek gnosticism and Buddhism.Their view of higher spirits is pretty similar to that denial of a high spiritual truth of the Buddhist.
Why are some /v/tards so triggered by MK and Ted Peterson's attempts to add some minor magitech elements to the setting as if fantasy hadn't been doing that shit since like the 70s? Did Skyrim convince a bunch of secondaries that TES is meant to be some low fantasy bullshit with maybe a cat person here and there?
>>736820274>Their view of higher spirits is pretty similar to that denial of a high spiritual truth of the Buddhist.not truet. a Buddha
>>736820275Because Bethesda is fucking shit at presentation, writing and worldbuilding so the fanboys become confused on why the ingame books are more compelling than the ingame events
>>736820415>buddha, not buddhistsince when do bodhisattvas post on /v/
>>736820602Since the invention of vidya.
>>736811627Allinall? His work was cool but he was a pretentious fuck, he got rid of everything because people called him an "elder scrolls" creator instead of a "kirkbride" creator
>>736820275don't think they are.skub fights I have seen seem to start more on the stuff kirkbride did on his own and ESO lore.>>736820563this is true, but I think the aforementioned stuff is what gets fought over.
>>736820275Personally I just find Pelinal being a robot lame. There are already robots in TES (animunculi, fabricants) so it's not something that surprises me or that break the lore. I just think the T-800 Pelinal is boring.To name one example, in Song of Pelinal, they make a reference to Pelinal no having a heart (which is a callback to how Auriel defeated him), but if he is a robot, how is that surprising? A robot doesn't need a normal heart, it's a machine.
>>736820415Which school/branch?
>>736820690Every fantasy series has space bullshit Even lord of the rings has elves eventually sail "the straight path" off of the round earth to arrive at the land of the gods Anyone who gets confused or put off by those concepts is a turbo retard
>>736820870Ok?What relevance does any of that have to what I said?Also you... don't understand LoTR that well.
>>736820742He is more like a divine construct or an android. Something with the appearance of a man but artificial creation, not born. Robot is just shorthand to explain it and liken him to the Terminator, same way 'jungle cyrodiil ' is shorthand for the old cyrodiil lore and not the actual types of trees and plants
>>736820929Because kirkbride was the one adding cosmic elements, spaceships, space stations, lunar colonies, and so on. None of the other tes writers have touched it beyond little nods and teases in ESO to placate fanwiki lore autism
>>736821015yeah once again I don't see any relevance in what you are yammering on about.Do you have reading comprehension issues?
>>736820274>GnosticismThere's a subtle nuance to this. Essentially, in the TES setting, Michael Kirkbride placed the untouchable concepts of Kabbalah right next to basically a Rape-desiring bunch of Greek Gods. Notions like Akatoshes time paradoxes, the nature of worlds in the setting, the association with impermanence and shattering and purity etc are all Kabbalist and Judaic but in a setting where the system does not exist due to its own intricacies, but rather because of the Padomaic forces messing with it. The Daedra/Lorkhan are not the NeoPlatonic Demiurge (not the regular Platonic Demiurge) but rather representations of the forces of nature flying in the way of what could most easily be described as naive or 'hopeful' systems.Anus original goal was to literally be everything and manifest everything infinitely at once, but instead of shattering due to the imperfection of creation in trying to comprehend itself, which is then rectified and fixed, its instead disturbed by the proto-Daedra.The nature of how the Altmer approach their idea of returning to their primordial state is much closer to Kabbalah than Gnosticism. Plus they literally approach it racially, thinking it only applies to their own race and creed. Very akin to Jews being expelled from Roman Palestine and wandering the world until the invention of the American.The main thing your gnosticism comparison lacks is the actual 'opposition'. Lorkhan is not the Demiurge, nor are there Archons nor is the subplot about Gnostic revelation and intuition or knowledge. The nature of the situation is exoteric, religious and ethnic.
>>736821096What the fuck were you referring to when you said people fighting over "aforementioned stuff" if not people arguing over kirkbride writing
>>736800237don't forget the >"he's a sodomite faggot just like me!"
>>736821269Well anon.in that post I said what I thought people ACTUALLY were whining about.Which was ESO and the independent writing.Now, a NON retarded person would have realized "aforementioned" meant those two things.Which are more specific than "kirkbride writing"If people are fighting specifically over triangles and circles, but NOT rectangles and octagons, they are fighting over something MORE specific than polygons.So, going off for multiple posts about POLYGONS ARE AWESOME WHAT IS WRONG WITH GEOMETRY?!Makes you look like a fucking retard with no reading comprehension.
>>736817514Elaborate on what's in the spoiler text, anon.
>>736818764Wrote, past tense. What does it matter if he doesnt anymore and none of his big ideas will ever make it into the new games? Just a "what if?" exercise?
Like 99% of the shit on UESP is pure fanfic. It's entertaining, yes, but it has nothing to do with the actual Elder Scrolls video games.
>>736821607none of the new games are good, so why should they be relevant?
>>736821793Because they exist in the real world and you can play them instead of just thinking about what it would be like if they were something else.
>>736821732Literally everything on the UESP's lore pages are sourced from either the games or things the official writers have said (while they were directly employed by Bethesda so crybabies like you aren't too offended)
>>736822004why would a shit game looking to scam me out of money be relevant "because I can waste my time and money playing it" ????
>>736820824Started out w/ a private teacher, one of my discernment was exactly how compromised the nature of the branches was due to the 'blind leading the blind in hopes of reaching the Sun' - and was thus led to pursue my own 'Journal', as everyone should. For if there was a simple perfect Buddhism present on Earth, it'd be easy to point to it and say 'that is the truth, follow'.Basically, I'm re-framing certain nuance in understanding the primordial metaphysics of Buddha and in part used TES (and comparative mythology and history) to do so. For example, nature of transcendence in Buddhism is often compared to no longer clinging for anything, but influence from 'Stoic aligned' beliefs had turned the subtlety of clinging towards the misapplication of recursion regarding Dharma towards the very notion of 'the absence of clinging' creating a conditioned 'strain' on the mind of a Buddhist.A better system of understanding Buddhahood is to say that one no longer clings because there is no more need to cling, there is nothing to cling for out of any necessity nor any behavior that one needs to worry about avoiding the clinging of, and this applies to the nature of the introspection on clinging during meditation itself. A lot of times people overstate the Buddhist 'ascetic' styling and miss out on the notion that the Buddha also rejects asceticism, but not merely for it's methodological failure but also because Buddhahood implies transcending all suffering to a much more 'hyper perfectionist' standard than is observed in language. In other words, people are quiet on suffering because they think being Stoic is Buddhist.Seems obvious if explained like this, but when you remember that the Buddha rejected all categorization for a reason as well as all 'knowledge' as imperfect regarding communication of ideas, you might notice how it can be confused with different meaning.Also the idea of Maitreya as a figure may be a psyop that latched onto Buddhism really early on.
>>736822018that's not a crybaby.that was certainly bait.
>>736822039Relevant to what? To whom? What are you trying to say? Take a deep breath and try again.
>>736822134>feigned ignoranceaight
>>736822165Is this what achieving CHIM looks like? Typing like a black teenager? Is Vivec "your nigga"?
>>736821415So, Tolkein was a Christian, he wrote a story he thought embodied Christianity in a fight against evil.But all that happened in the setting is that things got worse and worseCulminating in the regression of nature, mankind and heroism in the settingEverything beautiful in LOTR eventually dies out as if Melkor won anyway.The 'Christian' inspired morals fall apart in a very ironic manner, as the absence of that which was cast out leaves the world lacking in intricacy as well as protection. After the wars, the Angels essentially abandon mankind. No antagonists or evil meant the world was hollow, and without a justified evil to contrast the forces of good turned out to be shells.Its vaguely impleid that Tolkein wanted to write a story about cyclical heroes journeys, deities who exist to serve as 'Testers' of escalation (similar to the House of Troubles) whose evil meant to escalate good in a sort of simulated arms race, and about mankind that evolves forward thanks to the immortality of its accomplishments on Earth. Yet the exact opposite happens, and the Christian 'obligation' takes its toll on Middle Earth.
Bro talks about black people but begs for my attention like a black kid looking for daddy
>>736822018They're fluffed up and exaggerated to the point of TvTropes. UESP will take a single throwaway paragraph from a book and spin it into a gigantic wall of text four pages long.
>>736822379Not true. You're probably failing to notice that UESP now features TESO content. If you follow the citations of a page, you should be able to find out why the wiki seems more 'bloated' now.
>>736801473>Gameplay is canonI decide what canon is.
>>736822379Nah, it will usually take a single throwaway paragraph then mix it up with a fuckton of ESO quests, notes, books and item descriptions and spin it into a gigantic wall of text, probably because there really is a wall of text's worth of information in there (not that much of it is any good of course), because at the end of the day ESO is canon unfortunately
>>736800381Morrowind's lore is legendary because it's interesting and complete all the way from the top to the bottom. The deep lore is full of insane mythology and hints to impossible things, but the day-to-day stuff is equally fleshed out. The games present a unique culture full of shit both weird and mundane, which then lends weight to the more farcical background.You don't need to see the moon bases for the knowledge of these crazy, possibly bullshit stories to impact the game you're actually playing.
>>736822438TESO content is more offensive than anything in the boring Toddlore games. If I have to choose between LOTR knockoffs and marvelesque super heroes riding flaming lions and ice alligators into battle in their dozens, I'll hold my nose and go with the diet LOTR.
Soi fi doesnt belong in fantasy. Cringe. Gayshit killed pelinal anyways
>>736822657why
>>736822065A few questions if you don't mind. All academics aside (or rather bringing them to practice), how do you personally follow this non-clinging lifestyle? Do you actually feel you've achieved such a state, or are you working towards it? What do you do with your time? Do you have any projects, expectations, family members you hang out with, etc? If something bad happened to, say, your close ones, would it be valid according to your principles to experience fear, emotional pain or anything that troubles your heart and mind? Or are you expected to be in a constant zen state, no matter the external disturbances?
its a shame that one new lore guy that put out hours long videos turned out to be a huge faggot.
>>736825393what happened with PatricianTV?
>>736825485lol not him. some new channel came out of nowhere with hours long lore videos. pretty good mostly. some big editing mistakes like whole repeated sections that oddly went unnoticed but otherwise fine. then he started going on and on about racism. real world racism. i tried to ignore it but he kept bringing it up. i had to "dont recommend channel" it.
>mankind's greatest hero is a homosexualWhat did they mean by this?
And yet he still got KWABed by some elves at the end.
>>736812532It's the setting Kirkbride ripped off in order to make the cosmology of TES
>>736800237kill elves
>>736800237todd had to tone him down somewhat so that oblivion didn't get banned from walmart
The only part of TES I give a shit about is the lizard bitches. I'm a true son of Skyrim.
>>736800237God i love this DLC so much
IF ITS NOT IN AN OFFICIAL LICENSED PURCHASABLE PRODUCT FROM ZENIMAX INCORPORATED THEN ITS NOT FUCKING CANON , AND IT'S NOT GOING ON THE FANDOM WIKI, AND YOU CANT TALK ABOUT IT IN THIS THREAD ,UMMMM OKAY CHUDDIE SWEETIE?NOW IF YOU'LL EXCUSE ME I HAVE A DISNEY+ WATCH PARTY TO ATTEND WITH MY POLYCULE LIFE PARTNERS IN OUR LEASED APARTMENT. TONIGHT'S KINO MENU: STAR WARS THE ACOLYTE SEASON 1
>>736800237he hated elves so much he murdered a bunch of Khajiit as they pleaded with him trying to tell him they are not elves and then just went "whoops by bad"
>>736829583Are Khajit not elves? They have pointy ears.
>>736829764no, because elves believe that Nirn is a prison that must be broken free of, while the Khajiit know that Nirn must be protected, which is why when Azura made them she made them in many forms bound to the moons instead of making them elves always like Y'ffre did with the bosmer, and she told them to find and guard secrets, again unlike Y'ffre who is dumb and has no appreciation for secret things.
>>736820275>Did Skyrim convince a bunch of secondaries that TES is meant to be some low fantasy bullshit with maybe a cat person here and there?Yes, and to be fair I'm not really sure you can call them Secondaries, they played the game and you can't blame them for not digging deeper.It's a bit like how anyone that just played the HoMMs was not made aware of any of the wider sci-fi stuff in the setting.
>>736800237>>736800381The lore being crazy and interesting is good because it allows fans to make mods that are actually interesting and make a good game with the skeleton and mod engine that Bethesda leaves them.
>>736829764>>736830684The Mer/Men divide isn't predicated on how they feel about the world NOW, it's predicated on whether they were in the Settled or Wandering Ehlnofey faction during the Dawn Era. Khajiit were Settled Ehlnofey, so they're Mer. If it was predicated on how they feel about the world, then Dunmer would be considered Men, because they all embrace the Arena and respect (though don't worship) Lorkhan for creating it.
>>736812785>>736813192Aedra are actually more powerful and important than they were in Aetherius by virtue of the fact that Mundus is all of existence in miniature, and sits at the heart of infinity. The wheel of Mundus is a microcosm of the wheel of all, just like how White-Gold is a microcosm of Mundus. By integrating themselves into this symbology, they are stronger, but are bound to it and semi-dead in turn. The spirits who got completely stripped of their divinity (the Ehlnofey) were weakened though, but by their weakness were given the freedom to pursue the Walking Ways and achieve Amaranth.
