if they go back to the old formula it's not gonna sell
It'll be funner though
>>736808528I don't like the direction zelda games are going in. I did like botw when it came out, but with time I disliked it more and more. Also totk was a huge letdown and if the next zelda game is similer to it I'll be very sad.
>>736808528I thought BotW was the going back to the old formula.
>>736808528BotW is the old formula now. It's almost 10 years old.
>>736808806The problem is they are already entrenched in this botw universe so they either need to reset and go in a different direction or continue making botw universe games The spinoffs are already hot trash, so its not looking good. Everything after twilight Princess has kind of been a corpse death rattling however its being kept alive by nintendos rabid fanbase
>>736809238Almost 1/4 of Zelda's history has had BotW present. Holy shit.
>>736809238So for Oot fans we got 9 new Zelda games in the same span of time. Get rekt.
>>736809238the modern dev cycle situation is crazy
>>736808860First, Old Zelda often refers more to Ocarina and Majora rather than WWSecond, the issue isn't non-linearity, it's that BotW is a shitty Skyrim Minecraft clone mix that has zero to do with Zelda, the story is practically nonexistent beyond le meme-ories which are boring to collect, and a lot of the open world feels dull to explore.
It's not gonna sell AS much. Big difference
>>736808528true but they might try to incorporate some elements of the old formula into the new. keep the open world but bring back classic dungeons for example. I suspect the Ocarina remake is being used as a way to test the waters and it will have some open world elements tacked on, also to focus test classic formula elements with the modern audience and see if it still has any appeal.
>>736809838Tendies buy anything with the logo on it
>>736809732>>736808860BotW is like The original NES Zelda, but playing it without the manual - the external material with the NES cart that actually made the game interesting.
>>736808528They effectively can't go back to the old formula, they just don't have the know-how, it's like losing the tech for moon landings, they just effectively ruined their ability to do it.They increasingly relied on overtly making decisions for the player and setting slightly more open agendas when they want to pretend that the player has freedom, this is basically anti-game-design since you should be teaching the player to play the game in a way that has them make the correct decisions anyway aka "If it's not fun, why bother?". Every time nu-Zelda tries to use game design, it practically has to hit the player over the head with the intended solution instead of the player arriving at the solution naturally, because the underlying mechanics are either not fun or don't teach the player how to have fun.Even Skyward Sword wasn't really the old formula, it was mostly identical to the current "formula" used for BotW/TotK, just with different weighting and paying slightly more lip service to dungeons. >>736808860BotW is not the "old" formula. Open world with an even spread of identical challenges is as linear as you can get.
>>736809728All the more reason to make them more streamlined, like TP.
>>736811313>Streamlined>Focus-testing with the E3 trailers and vibes to get a directionless project on track
>>736808576If you mean less fun and interesting then I agree. BOTW holds zero surprises after the first 5 hours, which is antithetical to the entire Zelda design philosophy. Both those games are boring as shit and they didn't even try any legitimate world building
>>736811409You want me to post a map size comparison, faggot?
>>736811441i've been playing old formula zelda for like 20 years or some shit and can't stand it anymore. i could replay botw right now and still have fun
>>736811574BOTW sucks shit, it's a spin-off by the Xenoblade team. and I hope NOTHING from it carries over, but especially the garbage anime artstyle. Zelda NEEDS to go back to its roots design-wise, from the ground up, and expand on what was already established. It needs to be dark fantasy, and dripping in atmosphere - I don't want to see ANY other artstyle other than picrel (the original AlttP concept art) EVER AGAIN, anything else is hot garbage with no soul, and everyone knows it
>>736811820make it like botw gameplay but give it that dark artstyle you want. personally i played a few dark souls games so i don't need dark art in zelda but i can meet you halfway on this.
Why can't Japs find a happy medium between the two design philosophies?
>>736811820Agreed. Katsuya Terada was brilliant.
>>736811518>Map size for hilly grasslands aka babbies first programmable shader tutorial
>>736812019That's what botw is, yes.
>>736810335>Every time nu-Zelda tries to use game design, it practically has to hit the player over the head with the intended solution instead of the player arriving at the solution naturally, because the underlying mechanics are either not fun or don't teach the player how to have fun.im glad that we can agree that oot is nu-zelda and bad.
Why are BOTW threads like this one exclusively made by engagement farmers? Why don't actual human beings ever want to talk about the game?
>>736811820I loved his artwork for Zelda II. It fits well since that entire game feels oppressive.
>>736812281because normal people play a single player game and move the fuck on with their lives. what is there to talk about this many years later?
>>736808528doesn't matter already mogged by crimson desert
>>736812281tons of people are actually talking about the game in this "engagement farm" thread you retard.
>>736812456>this thread counts as actual discussion to anongrim. ngmi.
>>736810126BotW is like The original NES Zelda if you just wander around aimlessly, don't try to make any progress, and don't find any actual dungeons.
>>736811881I'm fine with a map as expansive as BOTW as long as it all serves a cohesive purpose, but it also NEEDS traditional dungeons that are unique and distinct from one another. We also need items and gadgets you can find in those dungeons - and expand on what you can do with them. Allow upgrading for everything. We barely scratched the surface as to how these features could be expanded in Skyward Sword. All things the Xenoblade team has yet to do in any memorable way.
>>736811574>I've been playing Mario for 20 years and can't stand it>I've been playing Kirby for 20 years and can't stand it>I've been playing any game franchise for 20 years and can't stand itNobody wanted a Zelda game with an empty world, shitty vehicle crafting and survival mechanics and 100 seeds to collect that give you literal shit as a reward. If you're tired of Zelda go play anything else fag
>>736812281BotW mindbroke OoToddlers. Even more so when Nintendo said there's 0% of the OoT formula ever coming back.
>>736812927This is what a lot of people do in the modern day sadly because they reject the manual, not understanding it and not realizing all story, direction and clear progress comes from the manual.
>>736812281Because TOTK killed the hype.
>>736808528BotW sold because of multiple factors other than the actual game design, including the system(s) it launched with and marketing. I dont think "old" vs "new" style is a factor in sales at all. "formula" is too big of a picture.
>>736813449TotK sold 20 million in a couple of weeks. It took BotW 5 years to reach 30 million. TotK is Nintendo's new money printer.
>>736808860>"zelda 1 was nonlinear open world!!" faggots when they go into a dungeon and see it is numbered, thus there is an intended order to them
>>736808528>old formulaOoT formula isn't the old formula, it's the shit formula.>>736808860Based.>>736813916BotW has an intended order as well for divine beasts. You don't need to follow that order in LoZ or BotW.
>>736812281Because any genuine back-and-forth discussion has either already been done a million times or gets derailed by bots.>>736813037The only cohesive purpose a large map can serve is to be a large map, like in SotC.It's useful if you want to space out hyperdense content like a boss-rush or the mad ramblings of someone on a drug trip.
>>736813916>zelda 1 was nonlinear open world!Yeah? What the fuck are trying to say retard.
>>736814053>BotW has an intended orderno it doesn't, disingenuous faggot
>>736814206It's not nonlinear. There are a few dungeons you can do out of order, but that's it. There's a clearly intended order and you need certain items to get through certain dungeons. It's not "LE NON LINEAR" like botw.
>>736814258>It's not nonlinear
>>736814208>no it doesn'tObjectively incorrect. If you follow the literal path through Hyrule that starts based on where the king's ghost tells you to go, you do a counter clockwise circle through the map. That's also the order of the bosses you fight during the boss rush modes, and the boss fights scale up in difficulty along that route. It is 100% absolutely the intended order and you're a retarded semen addicted nigger who wants to pretend you have a point arguing about games when you don't.
>>736814331Nigger you can go straight to Ganon and beat his fucking ass ten minutes into the gameThere IS no order, le recommended order is a meme
>>736814258Is this the part where you pretend to be an illiterate monkey who insists "nonlinear" actually means "you can do literally anything in any order at all" but then you'll also ignore the fact that BotW has a mandatory tutorial intro you can't skip which also makes it non-linear via your worthless and incorrect definition?
>>736813916The Levels do not have an intended order. The map in the manual only has locations for Lvl 1-4 and leaves the rest for you to find. The purpose of the numbers is to easily identify which triforce pieces you have in pause.
>>736814389>Nigger you can go straight to Ganon and beat his fucking ass ten minutes into the gameThat's nice, but what I said is that there was an intended order, and there is. You're objectively wrong and running around with the goalposts won't change that. Intended order is Zora, Goron, Rito and then Gerudo.
>>736812281BOTW is fun to play for 12 hours then it's kinda boring. The lore is nonsense and there are no hard bosses. The divine beasts are trivial despite looking cool, and the gameplay just becomes endless Ubislop once you have good equipment.
>>736813037>it also NEEDS traditional dungeonsNo it doesn't. Fuck off with OoT style dungeons already. They are not fun or interesting at all. And yes, that's exactly what you mean because EoW already has dungeons with boss keys and BotW has Hyrule Castle, which is how 3D dungeons should be designed like in the future.
>>736814882>and there are no hard bossesAlways funny when people have so little self-awareness in Zelda threads that they say shit like that. BotW had the first decent bosses in a 3D Zelda game and no 3D Zelda game before it had a single good boss fight except arguably the last boss in MM if you didn't use the Deity mask.
>>736814410>>736814258>>736814206>>736813916
>>736815049>zoomzoom baby thinks the oot dungeons are too hardkek, modern games are made for actual toddlers. I could probably beat BotW if I was 2 and blindfolded
>>736815256Why are you replying to three different people who have actually played LoZ while posting this image. What are you even trying to say here? The level number of the dungeon is just increasing in difficulty.
>>736810335>they just effectively ruined their ability to do it.>They increasingly relied on overtly making decisions for the player and setting slightly more open agendas when they want to pretend that the player has freedom, this is basically anti-game-design since you should be teaching the player to play the game in a way that has them make the correct decisions anyway aka "If it's not fun, why bother?".fuck me, i thought ootniggers had all moved on to the "bargaining" stage, but youre still on denial.
>>736815473>thinks the oot dungeons are too hardCan you actually explain to me what makes you think the OoT's dungeons are hard in any way?
>>736815510>The level number of the dungeon is just increasing in difficulty."Hmm, this dungeon is too difficult. I better get out quick." What happens next? Probably, idk, getting items and such from the other dungeons. In other words the manual literally implies that the purpose of the Numbering of the levels isnt for me to do them in that order, but to actually look at the numbering of the manual to make it easier to understand which tri-force pieces I currently have. Did I really need to type all of this out for you?>What are you even trying to say here?More than anything, just read the fucking manual.
they need to do neither and make something new.
>>736815824>Hmm, this dungeon is too difficult. I better get out quick.And the game never stops you from completing the dungeon if you're good at the game. I can immediately start the game, run to level 1 and get the bow, leave and run to dungeon 6, beat the dungeon.
how difficult is the original loz if you don't use a walkthrough
>>736815141You don't understand, I grew up playing this braindead dogshit so it's actually le kino and le soul.
>>736808528It doesnt matter if they go back or stay the same. With decades long dev cycles I only have 3 games to play before I'm dead.
>>736815824>IF THE GAME TELLS YOU THAT SOME CHALLENGES ARE HARDER THAT OTHERS THEN THAT MEANS ITS LINEAR, EVEN IF IT LETS YOU DO THEM IN ANY ORDER YOU WANT!!!!!!!!!!I will never understand OoTfags obsession with trying to lie and claim Zelda 1 was not open world or that BotW wasn't inspired by it. Anyone can play Zelda 1 for free or read the dev interviews and see the obvious inspiration and non-linear design. Just a baffling hill to die on.
>>736814206home...
>>736816768Why do you even care about longer dev cycles because games are much, much larger nowadays when you can play hundreds and hundreds of other games (for free) while you wait for the next game to come out?
>>736816537Depends on if you mean play it as intended (with the manual), or the zoomer way of no manual.No walkthrough, but manual - You have a clear way of getting to 4 Levels. Without a walkthrough you still need to manually find your way to 5,6,7,8,9 which can be difficult to just find. Some screens have cryptic puzzles. Doable. Main benefit of manual is story details and not wasting so much time wandering without purpose.No manual - More time consuming than anything. The most difficult parts would be combat for most people. Lost Woods screens can be weird.
>>736816780>>736816001But this is my entire point. I was arguing against the idea that Zelda 1 is not linear by posting direct sources of the manual to obviously support that idea...
>>736816934>the manual>the map>the 80s anime tier aesthetic>the gold cartit's insane how much soul this game hadI feel a bit sorry for the zoomoids and brownoids just violently lashing out in jealously cause they never got to experience that sort of vidya back in the day
>>736811820>muh dark fantasyMeanwhile:
>>736808528The old formula was shit>go to dungeon>get item>use item to "solve puzzles">use item to defeat boss>use item to get to next dungeon>gather the three macguffins>cutscenes>gather the three more macguffins>cutscenesThere's a reason it doesn't belong in the franchise now, everyone got fucking tired of it.
>>736817625Spoken like a bona-fide, slop loving faggot
>>736817796Stay mad that OoT clones are never coming back bro.
>>736817796Ironically you want to return to slop, all those previous 3D games after Oot was the sloppiest slop that ever slopped. Wager you love the shittiest one, Wind Waker, that's how much of an NPC with dogshit taste you are.
>>736808528why wouldnt you just do both formulas like resident evil doesor a mix of both.desu they already did with the 2 other zelda games
>>736809732my issue is the motorcycle and stupid gen z brain rot crap
>>736818264The DLC and the... what?
>>736817796He's been seething about OoT ever since he got destroyed in his own thread.https://arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/625296969
>>736813916t. Never played either
>>736818535Damn, I was wondering who made all these OoT webms. Anon doing the Lord's work dabbing on OoTfaggots.
>not even denying it
>>736816780They grew up with OoT so they want to pretend it's the oldfag hardcore gamer game and not the casual baby game that streamlined and dumbed down the series.
>>736809732>Old Zelda often refers more to Ocarina and Majora rather than WWNeither are which are classic Zelda. OoT did away with what people liked this series for. Every game since ALBW has been bringing it back.
I find it funny that these people don't understand why they made BotW nonlinear or why OoT was story driven, do they really believe Nintendo couldn't add a few unbreakable rocks, or barriers that could only be lifted by following a certain path and unlocking the items?
>>736819368Sidon is so lucky.
>>736809732>and a lot of the open world feels dull to explore.It always bothered me that leading into BotW people demanded "open world" from their Nintendo games. Same with Pokemon. Like that was a new thing.Pokemon RBY were linear, although if you didn't know the game you wouldn't realize it was railroaded. But GSC opens up immensely and only returns to linearity once you have to beat the E4. Then it opens up again by bring back the region from the 1st game.
>>736819720>although if you didn't know the game you wouldn't realize it was railroaded.Yeah idk, even just up to the first gym it is pretty clear how it is railroaded. I agree with the rest though.
>>736819031Holy retard
>>736808528Why do you as a gamer give a shit about companies selling well? Why do you care about rich getting richer? It has no effect on you.
>>736820375rich people are rich because they are smarter and better at producing things that people want. the richer they are the richer they make me because they are producing cool stuff like zelda games that a lot of people are willing to give them money for.
>>736820356Holy N64faggot.
>>736808528That’s fine just scale it down a bit and add some cool legacy dungeons, make the combat a bit better. My only real complaint with botw was the fact the divine beasts were boringly designed. Just make them cool temples with mysterious lore please
>>736820805>Just make them cool temples with mysterious lore pleaseyea i think this would be great. maybe there's an interesting way to design them such that you can complete them in different ways depending on what items you have.
>>736818535>HE'S the one seething, not me>nevermind that i have a thread from 2023 bookmarked>nevermind that he raped and gaped oot and all ootfags>yep, he's totally the one seething, not melmao
>>736820448retard take
>>736820923>feeling the need to defend yourself after being remindedSee?
>>736810335>be American millennial>live in cozy upper-middle class area>soccer mom buys you a Nintendo 64 because The 700 Club told her that PlayStation games have blood>parents can also afford you to buy the entire Rareware library>since you are rich and American, your family are also early adopters of the internet>lo and behold, everyone else online is also a rich American from a Nintendo 64 household>Ocarina group masturbation session ensues>The internet universally agrees that ReDeads are the scariest things ever invented because none of you ever played Silent Hill>Internet gaming culture is built upon the idea that everyone owned a Nintendo 64 and everyone agrees Ocarina of Time is unambiguously the best game ever made>Fast forward 20 years>Euros, Aussies, and working class Americans are now online>You find out that the Nintendo 64 absolutely fucking bombed outside of middle America and nobody gives a fuck about Ocarina of Time>Even in the US the N64 was massively outsold by the PS1, let alone abroad>Persecution complex ensues>"This can't be........did.....did I shit my pants over Wind Waker's graphics for nothing?">Start calling Ocarina underrated due to the fact that people who've played more than 1 fucking game don't think it's the best
28 years.
>>736821028Imagine being so fucking asslasted you think everyone making fun of you is the same exact person. Liking OoT really IS a mental illness.
>>736821081>asslasted
>its just one guy>just ONE guy>everybody love oot>EVERYBODY>it can only possibly be ONE guy that has anything bad to say about it>its CLEARLY the same ONE guy from 3 years ago. i havent forgotten!
>>736808528Some things are more important than sales
>caps lock meltdown
>>736808528If Echoes of Wisdom can sell over 4 million copies and Link's Awakening's remake can do like 7 million or some shit like that then a new solid, normal ass 3D Zelda would probably do fine. BotW numbers, no, but it wouldn't flop.
>>736821128kek not only are you mentally ill schizo who thinks multiple people making fun of you is the same person, you're also a dbscuck shitposting in multiple Zelda threads every day. OoTrannies can't get any lower at this point.
>off-topic screeching about non-vidya things
>>736821221Good games are important. Thankfully that means Nintendo is never going back to the OoT formula.
they really arent beating the zealot allegations.
>>736821040I was with you until you assumed the internet monoculture which absolutely didn't exist back then. While GameFAQs was big, there were tons of other platforms where people spoke about gaming, also SEAs were around at that time.Another thing too is Nintendo granted licenses to hotels for you to rent their consoles and hotels were more likely to do it for Nintendo due to the family friendly image. All the hotels in Anaheim around Disneyland were hooked up like this through the SNES and N64 eras. Every hotel room had a TV, a microwave, and a Nintendo console. Sony who?
>>736822359>but my anecdotal presence of the n64 in hotels and mcdonalds!and ps1 still outsold it. period.
>>736821386They never will
>>736813916>"Zelda 1 and BOTW are exactly the same" fags when they can't skip everything and fight Ganon within 5 minutes>BOTW fans when dungeons are item gated
>>736822885Oh look, its ACfag.
>>736822885nobody but speedtrannies give a shit about going straight to ganon.
>>736822885>>"Zelda 1 and BOTW are exactly the same"Nice strawman.
>>736823020So BOTW and TOTK are the only games that are for speedtrannies?
You say that like the new games aren't the most praised games in the franchise too. No shit they're gonna double down on this direction.
>>736823168
>>736823232>"only speedtrannies give a shit about going straight to ganon">in an era where Nintendo specifically designs modern Zelda to let you skip right to Ganon
>>736813879A sequel sells well because of its predecessor, let's see how well the next TotK will do.
>>736808860BotW is a bastardization of Zelda up to this point and I don't even know what TotK is with its ultrahand shit. ALBW is a much better representation of returning to pre-OoT conventions. Hell, even EoW is better in that regard as well.
>>736823395It will sell gangbusters yet again and continue to prove that the people wishing for the "old formula" to return are a extreme vocal minority who have nostalgia.
>>736823395Probably better than Skyward Sword, the last classic Zelda lol.
>>736823450>BotW is a bastardization of Zeldalol Botw is zelda in its purest form. a game focused on exploration at its core
>>736823936>a game focused on explorationOh please. Even indie games excel at this better.
>>736818535Sorry about your loss
>>736824110what does your nonsequitur have to do with anything. are you just one those tards who shit yourself over "MUH ITEM GATING" (which botw has)?
>>736808528They won't, Aonuma already said they're moving forward with the BotW formula.
>>736808860Zoomers don't know what the fuck they want, TotK is significantly more linear than BotW but they fucking hate it and say BotW was better, zoomers just toss terms around without actually understanding them.
>>736824259that's awesome actually. i thought i remember them saying something about totk being the last they'll visit the botw world but i guess they just meant that specific world rather than the gameplay principles.looking forward to the next installment's world.
>>736823936Zelda's essence is the ebb and flow between overworld and dungeon, and few games have really gotten that right post-Oracles, maybe even since Minish Cap. Skyward Sword was a mess because it basically killed exploration and turned everything into a dungeon puzzle. BotW swings hard in the opposite direction by basically killing dungeons and turning everything into a field interaction. Pick your flavor of poison, but it's the same basic problem. SS's handholding or BotW's sandboxes, they're equally lacking in Zelda's trademark harmony.
>>736824240Zelda's exploration is shallow and has no staying power. Either you meet with braindead, forgettable NPCs, or braindead trash mobs. What's there to find other than glorified filler?>omg you found korok poop#403, woooow!
>>736824359>Zelda's essence is the ebb and flow between overworld and dungeon,Okay, which BotW already does. Which TotK does even more with more underground, interior areas like finally adding (good) caves to a 3D game.
>>736824456Well there's the armor sets with different game changing effects, and that's been zelda since ever, all items are inside the main dungeons while the rest is some stuff that is not required to finish the game.Also>I NEED CONSTANT GRATIFICATIONEh, cringe
>>736813916Suggested order =/= linearity, BotW has an obvious level progression of Ruta>Medoh>Rudania>Naboris but there is nothing preventing you from going straight to Naboris, actually linear games like OoT or TP have hard scripts that don't trigger events unless a specific sequence of levels is followed, you cannot go to the Spirit Temple or Snowpeak Ruins before the game allows you to go there.LoZ is the same as BotW, it has an intended order of exploration that is made obvious by stuff like the types of enemies in the dungeons, but nothing prevents you from actually doing them out of order.
>>736824628>useless shit that you can completely ignore since there's no bad weather on the way to ganonCongrats, you've made exploration meaningless.
>>736824586BotW's "dungeons" all feel like 3 shrines stitched together, with almost no combat or real sense of identity to speak of. Hyrule Castle was incredible, that shit had the right idea, but the rest of the game has a hard time matching that level of intrigue. I can't speak for TotK because honestly, BotW didn't make me want more of this style and I certainly wasn't interested by the Ultrahand mechanic. I'm not about to cope for this shit, once was enough.
>>736824705I want to see you trying to get straight to Ganondorf, livestream your playthrough.
>>736824853Only if you show me your playthrough of Zelda 1, where you skip all the dungeons and somehow magically get to ganon without collecting a single item. Since the two games are exactly the same, after all.
>>736824359>Zelda's essence isExploration. Dungeons were originally combat gauntlets which BotW and TotK do other ways. The puzzle box dungeons came later, and the railroaded and completely scripted puzzle dungeons that started with OoT sucked.
>>736824801TotK's dungeons are actually closer in design to BotW's Hyrule Castle than to the divine beasts, particularly the gerudo and goron ones, the zora one is combat-focused and the rito one is the most like a divine beast but more complex.
>>736824915>no youCoward
>>736824801Which Shrines let's you manipulate the entire level in real-time? What's the difference between Eventide Island and a dungeon? Or even the Great Plateu? Because they aren't enclosed spaces?Why are you ignoring the Master's Trial and Champion's Ballad?
REMEMBER THIS INFAMOUS SCREENSHOT?This was a screenshot from a Dev Build of Ocarina of Time's alpha or beta version (we don't know which).Nintendo is going to feature the Triforce in Ocarina of Time's remake. I OPPOSE THIS DECISION and SEETHE.The Triforce should remain a prize for solving the original Ocarina of Time and finding it's parallel world.
>>736825006>the railroaded and completely scripted puzzle dungeons that started with OoT suckedThis, in fact the only good dungeons from that era were in the handheld games, Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, dungeons with designs that specifically harken back to ALttP.
zelda was never good
>>736823343"we want you to be able to do anything you want, even going straight to the final boss!"and the only people that care about doing that are speedtrannies.
>>736825198Which makes BOTW and TOTK nothing but speedtranny games. Why pander to an audience that doesn't like video games?
>>736823450zelda has changed core gimmicks so many times, but suddenly botw is the "wrong" one, lmaoseethe harder oottranny.
>>736808528It's a false dichotomy. They only perceive a fully open world (like botw) and a completely linear game (skyward sword) and nothing in between. The real old formula (as in zelda 1 and alttp (dark world)) had both, you had a big open space to explore but also actual progression with items, so there was no enforced order but you still had to some things first. Botw is not really old zelda, it's more of a "threw the baby out with the bathwater" moment.A lot of the people who pretend botw shares any substantial game design with zelda 1 or that it's more zelda than the rest of the zelda games haven't actually played zelda 1, it shares the sense of non linearity (although through completely different means of non linearity) and that's about it, so by that logic everything from minecraft to elden ring is more zelda than zelda to these people.
>>736824456There's nothing shallow about finding cool locations, getting different upgrades, and layers upon layers of fun environment interactions. And BotW/TotK has the best NPCs in the entire series. You're just a retard.
>>736825132Shut the fuck up tripfag
>>736825067>Which Shrines let's you manipulate the entire level in real-time?You're talking about the divine beasts, right? The ones where they have no-climbing metal on every surface because being able to climb everything broke the game, so they purposely take it away? Doesn't that kind of prove that the main exploration gimmick is terrible?
>>736825296Nintendo is going to spoonfeed you the triforce and you're going to love it.In the meantime, you'll see Ocarina of Time lose it's charm and elusivity that you didn't even know it had.Will Nintendo really risk desecrating the Best Videogame Of All Time?
>>736825287Spent 50 hours in BOTW. I cannot even remember a single NPC, other than the stupid loli bitch from Hateno and the gay guy who sells you a house. Not one single one left an impact, because the game is designed to be forgettable. Nobody is important since you can just rush to Ganon.
>>736825238We like OoT and MM too, same as WW, TP, PH, FSA, TloZ, AoL, ALbW, LA, AlttP, OoA, OoS, SS, SSHD, WWHD, OoT3D, MM3D, CT.
>>736825358Sounds like a (you) problem.
I dont want them to go back. I want then to go forward and do something totally different from OOT and BOTW.
>>736825302>You're talking about the divine beasts, right?Yes. Which Shrine is designed like any of the Divine Beasts?
>>736825132Has the so-called OoT remake even been announced officially? I feel like everyone is outting way too much stock in a completely unfounded rumour.
>>736825132it doesnt exist, retard. there is no prize. there is no feat. you cant get it. even if you could "play" whatever skeleton build this is, nothing would HAPPEN. there is no magic. there is no "going into games" tron technology. there is no "hidden other half of the game" or "parallel world". get professional therapy.
>>736825480lmao. you're the one that's going to need help when it happens.
>>736825414I think there is value in both approaches, there really is no need to stick to the shrine/rune formula even if they want to do an open world, ALBW proves it, you can have items and actual dungeons and a non-linear progression.
>>736825067>Which Shrines let's you manipulate the entire level in real-time?A cool concept, though I liked how Majora's Mask did it better with dungeons like Great Bay and Stone Tower. I wish I could remember any givem shrine other than Blue Flame or even the divine beast puzzles, but they all bled together for me after a while so I can't answer that.>What's the difference between Eventide Island and a dungeon? Or even the Great Plateu? Because they aren't enclosed spaces?These parts were the fleeting moments where I felt some joy with the game. Other parts like Thyphlo Ruins, Yiga Clan Hideout, and the 3 labyrinths also come to mind. That comprises a disappointing minority of the game though.>Why are you ignoring the Master's Trial and Champion's Ballad?Do I sound like someone who had any interest in buying DLC for this game?
>>736825448Don't they all have magic no-climbing metal?
>>736825636>liked how Majora's Mask did it better with dungeonsI can't even take this post seriously.
>>736824456>they always talk about korok seeds and not the dozens of other things to discoversad low energy
>>736825732Such as?
I want a game like Zelda II again.
>>736825448I like BotW and have no isse with the divine beasts but they absolutely are scaled up shrines, all of them revolve around a central gimmick (The water wheels/spout in Ruta, the electic circuit in Naboris, the side positioning in Rudania and the wing tilt in Medoh) and all you do is go back and forth the same place while changing this element from the map screen to access the different terminals.
>>736825885I'm down. Sidescroller action RPG kino.
>>736825881play the game, faggot
>>736825889>The water wheels/spout in Ruta, the electic circuit in Naboris, the side positioning in Rudania and the wing tilt in Medoh)It's the element tied to each region, they're just building on each element the game teaches you at the beginning. Something that BotW does well is that it actually increases the complexity of the game's concepts and ideas as the game goes on with many of the puzzles/scenarios.
>>736826138I already did. Only thing I can think of is >gay fetch quests where your reward is cooking ingredients you'll never use>NPCs you rescue from a bokoblin attack, which is scripted to happen every day or at least every blood moon, one or the other, but it felt cheap and inconsequential>weapons that get tossed in the garbage for being useless>that stupid dragon you fight/save on the mountain, that was insultingly easy, and just led to a shrine anyway, all for items I never usedWorthless trash, all around.
>>736826171Shame about totk. Never feels like the concepts get beyond the tutorial level
>>736826171Yes, but conceptually that is exactly how each shrine works, just scaled up, and it's ok, it's a fine way of building some dungeons for one game but even Nintendo knew they couldn't pull the same thing twice and changed it for TotK.
Certainly they won't abandon the engine they made for BOTW right away, would they?
>>736826267Time to replay it
>>736808528Yeah just like dread
>>736819368he needs more muscle
>>736826443But I hated my first playthrough. what would a second accomplish?
Genuine question, why OoTsnoys try to undermine the importance of sales and objective measures of success? You can seethe at BoTW all you want, it will never change the fact that it sold more than twice of OoT and is consistently motivated successful than it ever was.
>>736821080...And 9 years of your snoy seething at BOTW.
>>736825184The 2D games play quite differently from the 3D games yet nobody seems to ever notice.
>>736826631It might click for you on the third playthrough, so go ahead and do #2
>>736826839I'd rather just play a game I know I love already. Like Terraria.
>>736827069wow it really is acfag
>>736825238>Which makes BOTW and TOTK nothing but speedtranny games>you know, if you just ignore all of the rest of the game contentyou literally dont have an argument. also oot can be beaten in under 4 minutes.
>>736827159It's funny because ACfag hasn't even played BotW 1 time. While trying to argue about the game in depth, he made it clear that he just looked some shit up online because he was getting basic details wrong.
>>736827069meh, grow up
>>736827228>>736827176>>736827159>say that I prefer another game to BOTW>fanboys lose their shitGuess you guys don't do that well when you aren't in your famitsu hugbox threads.
>>736825539your lawsuit was and always will be laughed out of court. you need mental help. nobody cares about "getting the triforce". nintendo putting it in the game for you to automatically get is nothing new. cutting it from the game is nothing special either. it doesnt exist in the game. deal with it.
>>736827298I'm not reading any of the shit you wrote, I just noticed immediately when you entered the thread like 2 hours ago.
>OoTfaggot seethes at FamitsuWhy am I not suprised?
>>736827228He did the same thing with alttp, the faggot just loves shitposting
>>736827397>>736827491>thread about Zelda is anti-gameplay discussion and would rather just jerk off salesI'm sick of this rerun.
>>736825278isn't lttp almost entirely linear. even the dark world
The next Zelda game better have Ganondorf wearing nothing but a jockstrap.
>>736827702Not really. Dark World dungeons open up quite a bit in terms of order.
>>736827702LttP completely opens up once you access to the Dark World. There's roadblocks in places but there's nothing really pretending you from completing the game in any order, especially when you can just get an item and immediately leave. The only forced order of progression is completing Eastern Palace to get the Shoes and getting the Hammer from the Dark Palace.
>>736827959>>736828023That doesn't make sense. If you have to enter the dark world dungeon to be able to progress, then there's no point in leaving. Why not just finish the dungeon? You can't even reach the other dungeons until you get the hammer, which requires you to already be deep into the first dark dungeon.
>>736828121right. i played a snes rom for lttp that actually opened up the dark world by removing item requirements to enter a lot of dungeons. e.g. you could enter ice palace via the shovel instead of requiring the big gauntlets or whatever they're called
>>736828121>you to already be deep into the first dark dungeon.No it does not. You get the Hammer very quickly in the Dark Palace. I would know, that's me killing HK after completing every other main dungeon.>what's the pointBecause its fun and linear adventure games are gay and lame.
>>736828291>linear adventure games are gay and lame.Based actual adventure enjoyer.
Why the fuck would I care? Metroid sells like shit and I love the series. Echoes of wisdom was a spin-off and I put much more time into it then botw or tears
>>736828291>No it does not. You get the Hammer very quickly in the Dark Palace.By the time you get the hammer, you're only about 4-5 rooms away from the boss. I'd say that's pretty deep.>Because its fun and linear adventure games are gay and lame.Then how does that speak to LTTP's favor, since you have to go into the dungeon anyway before you're allowed to access any other dungeon? Not to mention you're not allowed to finish the game until you go back and beat the dungeon boss, thus defeating the point of leaving in the first place.
>>736808528Retard, the open world isn't the issue: the issue is the 1000 sheika shrines, the 4(four)(Quatro) dungeons. All of that, AND tge inconsistent and bad writing and lore of totk.
>>736828890>you're only about 4-5 rooms away from the boss.And about 4 rooms away from leaving, especially when the game gives you a run button. Especially when you can make lots of bosses and enemies your bitch like being able to oneshot them. There's nothing stopping you from going that. That's fun. Adventure games aren't supposed to be linear.>Then how does that speak to LTTP's favor,Because LttP is a non-linear game. There's many different orders of progression. You're not a set path, you can play the game in (mostly) any order you want if you know what you're doing. No stupid NPC tells you you aren't allowed to do this or that. It gives the game lots of replayability in how you want to explore the overworld.
>>736829076Yeah, they needed a bunch of filler to justify the massive, empty world. It's a far cry from the original games, where it felt like each screen had some purpose or secret.
>>736823004no it was me, actually
>>736808576>It'll be funner thoughAccording to whom?
>>736829523Yes, let's tear apart every series so they can maximize mass appeal. Fucking normalfag
>>736829762>tear apartYou mean improve.
>>736829351>And about 4 rooms away from leaving, especially when the game gives you a run button.But why would you leave? There's no advantage to it. It just feels like unnecessary busywork, and many of these dungeons are a pain to navigate, so if i'm in it, might as well finish it.>You're not a set path, you can play the game in (mostly) any order you want if you know what you're doing.Not really. You still have to enter the dungeons in a specific order, freedom is mostly a small thing here and there. there's still item gating. Like you can't even get to turtle rock without finding the medallion for it, and getting into it requires the somarian cane. To get the cane of somaria, you need to get the ether medallion from the swamp dungeon. Can't enter the swamp dungeon without the hookshot, etc etc. see>>736828289 had the right idea. The vanilla game just doesn't compare to what the community has done. I personally love playing randomizers, which completely jumble progression.
>>736829814>But why would you leave?So you can explore the Dark World. So the stupid numbers don't pop up on the map. So you can oneshot the HK. Because you can and the game lets you. There's a number of different reason why and the game doesn't prevent you from doing it. That's good game design.>There's no advantage to itI just showed one.>many of these dungeons are a pain to navigateOnly the Ice Palace is because of how many rooms there are, and you can use the Cane of Somaria to make it easier.>Not reallyYes really. You have not played LttP much.>enter the dungeons in a specific orderThere's some items you need but there's no true specific order.>there's still item gatingWow, like every other Zelda game in existence.......Anyone who mentions item gating in Zelda is an actual autistic retard.>without finding the medallion for it, and getting into it requires the somarian cane. Cool, and you can get those items out of order. >To get the cane of somaria, you need to get the ether medallion from the swamp dungeon. Can't enter the swamp dungeon without the hookshot, etc etcAll of that is completely wrong. You get Ether medallion with the MS, and the Hookshot is irrelevant when it comes you Misery Mire as you can just jump over the gap. I have played LttP multiple times, and my first playthrough was completely blind. You have played LttP once with a guide. We aren't not the same.
>>736829358>it's a far cry from the original gamesQuite lierally since Far Cry was a big influence on BotW's world design.
>>736808528I don't give a flying fuck about what makes Sonyfag dregs who only played open world slop on PS3 and PS4 before 2017 happy. I want a good Zelda, and BotW and TotK aren't it.Stop putting so much emphasis on externalities like sales and normalfag approval, for the love of fucking christ.
>>736830519Source? And I mean real source, not just someone from Nintendo listing off a bunch of games they played that happens to include Far Cry.
>>736830707if companies don't aim for sales then they can't run their business and they will fail
>>736829814https://files.catbox.moe/687iql.mp4
>>736830707>I don't give a flying fuck about what makes Sonyfag dregs who only played open world slop on PS3 and PS4 before 2017 happy.That's cool. Nintendo doesn't give a flying fuck what N64babies who pretend OoT is great think. Neither do actual oldfags who grew up on LoZ, regardless of how angry that makes you.
>>736829814This is the problem with H1BotWfags - anything less than total freedom and optionality for the main quest/dungeons is considered "linearity" in their book.
>>736830784you're not doing this LARPing faggotry again, fuck off
>>736830812I don't know what you're trying to say but linear adventures are shit and that will always be the truth.
Very likely not so they’ve kind of cucked themselves. Now they have to create in their heads and then bring to life a massive map that doesn’t feel too much like the last one every game.
>>736830889>I don't know what you're trying to sayBecause BotWfags are borderline-illiterate ADHD manchildren and that's why having to follow instructions even once fries your goddamn brains.
>>736830430>So you can explore the Dark World. So the stupid numbers don't pop up on the map. The flaw here is that I still have to go into the dark palace first, and do most of it to get the hammer. It's not like the hammer is waiting at the start, and it takes 5 seconds to pick it up. The point would've made more sense if you could find the hammer separately and not even need to go into the palace. Something akin to what LBW did, though its execution was also flawed.>I just showed one.I still have to backtrack and beat him afterward. It's just extra time waste.>Only the Ice Palace is because of how many rooms there are, and you can use the Cane of Somaria to make it easier.Only because there's no "item" to speak of in the ice palace, since increased defense isn't really part of item gating. Though you can't get there anyway without the heavy gauntlets and fire wand regardless.>There's some items you need but there's no true specific order.If we're referring to which bosses have to be defeated in a certain order, you'd be right. but objectively there is an order in which you're allowed to go into the dungeons, and you can't circumvent it as much as you think.>Wow, like every other Zelda game in existence.......the point is that item gating inherently goes against the open world that you clamor for.>Cool, and you can get those items out of order. Only if you already travel to their respective dungeons. You are NEVER getting any of these items if you don't go into the dark palace, for example. You can't even think of sequence breaking without that. >All of that is completely wrong. You get Ether medallion with the MS,Sorry, I made a typo. Meant to say "you need to get the ether medallion FOR the swamp dungeon". It's still a gate that's enforced.
>>736831009Oh, you're just an upset OoTfag. Now everything is clear.
>>736830783Oh, I forgot about that trick. Fair enough, anon. Needing the ether medallion is still a problem, tho.
>>736831089>Needing the ether medallion is still a problem, tho.Why?
>>736830864>LARPingsee>>736830784>regardless of how angry that makes you.You being mad that people older than you play better video games won't change reality.
>>736817417You REALLY don't want to play that card with the outfits BotW and TotK have.
>>736831282It's still an example of item gating, especially if someone wanted to do a no master sword run of the game.
>>736831557>It's still an example of item gatingand why is THIS bad?
>>736812281The games have been discussed to death already. There is nothing new to cover.
>>736831619If you're gonna argue that LTTP offers complete non-linear freedom, then any kind of item gating is bad.
>>736831035>The flaw here is that I still have to go into the dark palace firstCool. And you can immediately enter, get the Hammer, and leave. Now you have full access to the Dark World. And the stupid numbers no longer pop up on the map.>still have to backtrack and beat him And you can oneshot him with a Sliver Arrow. That's cool. That's fun. >Only because there's no "item" to speak of in the ice palaceThat's a good thing. All the dungeon items in LttP are different things, its not retarded formulaic shit that repeats itself.>you can't get there anyway without the heavy gauntletsThat's just for accessing the Dark World teleports. You can do Thieves Town as your first dungeon. Because LttP is a non-linear game.>fire wand Completely worthless for the Ice Palace. Actually play the game nigger.>there is an order in which you're allowed to go into the dungeons,>>You're not a set path, you can play the game in (mostly) any order you want if you know what you're doingYou can literally complete any dungeon you want once you enter the Dark World. What exactly is preventing you from playing the game in the order you want?>the point is that item gating inherently goes against the open worldLttP isn't open world. This might break your mind but games like BotW still has item gating yet it is still an open world nonlinear game. And no, that's not referring to the Great Plateau.>if you already travel to their respective dungeonsLttP has lots of items and many of them is not obtained in a dungeon. You get the Ice rod for example from exploring the overworld which you use to kill the boss in Turtle Rock.>NEVER getting any of these items if you don't go into the dark palaceWhat are you even saying. You get the Hammer and leave. Again, what is preventing you from doing that exactly?>get the ether medallion FOR the swamp dungeonYou use the Ether Medallion things, it doesn't exist solely to access an item. You use it for puzzle solving like seeing invisible paths.
>>736831767>You use the Ether Medallion things, it doesn't exist solely to access an item.You use the Ether Medallion for different things, it doesn't exist solely to access a dungeon*
>>736831767>What exactly is preventing you from playing the game in the order you want?The lack of crossdressing, carrying 3 dozen touch-of-death strength boosting meals, and dollhouse building. Presumably.
>>736831659Not him, but you retarded niggers that try to stretch and strawman any praise of non-linear design into "any type of gating or enforced progress at all is bad" are a special breed of retarded.
>>736808528the old zelda formula has no exploration and exploration is FUN
>>736831910?
>>736831767>Cool. And you can immediately enter, get the Hammer, and leave. Now you have full access to the Dark World.No, you don't. You can access some more of the dark world, but without the gauntlets, you can't remove the black stones that cover many vital portals. Without the hookshot, there are other areas closed off to you, like the dark world equivalent of death mountain, forgot the name. IIRC even getting into the town of thieves is hard without getting through the skull woods. >And you can oneshot him with a Sliver Arrow. That's cool. That's fun. IIRC, aren't the silver arrows blocked off until you get the crystals for misery mire and the ice palace? You can't get them without the super bomb, and I don't think the super bomb gets stocked in the dark world bomb shop until later in the game.>That's a good thing. All the dungeon items in LttP are different things, its not retarded formulaic shit that repeats itself.I guess I can cede this point to you. It's nice having a break from every dungeon being centered around finding a new item.>You can do Thieves Town as your first dungeonDark Palace is always the first dungeon you start. Even if you don't kiill Helmasaur King until later. >Completely worthless for the Ice Palace. You can't beat the dungeon without it, or AT LEAST finding the bombos medallion first, which I believe functions as a somewhat pricey alternative in terms of MP. Either way, I'd take the wand because it doesn't lock me into a 10 second animation.>What exactly is preventing you from playing the game in the order you want?The items required to progress? You don't have to beat them in a specific order, but you still have to enter them in a specific order.>What are you even saying. You get the Hammer and leave. The point is that you still have to enter the dungeon. There's no avoiding it.
>>736811518Fuck you!!!
alright that's it, I call bullshitthis tryhard faggot is starting to sputter on fumes now if he's attempting to say that having to just christfucking ENTER a dungeon is too unreasonable for a Zelda gameyou had your fun but you're in a corner now, just give this retarded shtick up
Genuine question but why do BotW/TotKfags need to resort to pretending like anybody fucking played/plays Zelda 1?You all know what people mean when they say old Zelda, why do you insist on pretending people mean Zelda 1 which coincidentally, got brutally mogged in by ALttP which everyone agrees is the best form of Zelda from even that same generation (removing the N64 3D shift). People mean Ocarina of Time when they say old Zelda formula, you know it yet you pretend not to because deep down you realize the franchise has been utterly killed with open world meme dogshit which as a result, has killed all discussion of the game on 4chan.>every 4chan Zelda thread after the Nu Zeldas = Shitting on BotW/ToTK or Saturday Night Zelda girls thread>zelda general on /vg/ = Dead>any and all actual discussion = Dead
>>736832585Because they need to dishonestly cultivate a reputation of seniority for BotW to portray LttP-onward as "usurpers" to the Zelda series (i.e. saying BotW is LE ZELDA 1 REVIVAL). Zelda 1 is not a game for them, it's a bludgeon for them.
>>736832248>No, you don't.Yes you can. >but without the gauntletsThe Titan Mutts are mainly used to access dungeons. Again, what exactly is preventing you from getting something and leaving? You haven't explained that other then "well I don't want too".>Without the hookshotThe Hookshot is completely irrelevant for exploring the Dark World. It's never needed for anything but killing the boss in Swamp Palace, and that's just for removing his armor.>forgot the nameYou forgot because that never happens.>IIRC even getting into the town of thieves is hard No? Do I really need to make 20 different webms of all the routes in LttP? >aren't the silver arrows blocked off You get the Silver Arrows from completing Misery Mire and Ice Palace. The moment you complete both of those the super bomb becomes active. That's not late in the game unless you're gay and think you need to follow some intended order like a good little NPC drone.>Dark Palace is always the first dungeon And it can be completed last. Wow, almost like it's a non-linear game.>You can't beat the dungeon without itWrong.>finding the bombos medallion first,And you get bombos at any time. >'d take the wand Bombos is better in every way you tard. Bombos is an AoE attack that immediately kills everything on screen, and you get an upgrade that cuts mana costs for everything in half.>The items required to progressOkay, and what's stopping you from getting those items in different orders?>The point is that you still have to enter the dungeonYes, and you can enter the dungeon, get the Hammer, and leave. Like I said multiple times. Applies to many different things in the game.
>>736832585>You all know what people mean when they say old ZeldaAnd that's a bad thing, as OoT isn't old Zelda nor is it a good game.
>>736832585>is the best form of Zelda from even that same generation (removing the N64 3D shift).zelda 1 and lttp are not from the same generation
>>736832585It's even funnier when you realize Crimson Desert does everything botw/totk does but with actual puzzles too (better combat, better exploration, better enemy variety, better puzzles). Even does skyworlds better
>>736808528They're going to make OoTmake BOTW slop, im so sick to my stomach just thinking about itit's going to sell a gadrillion units and Zelda will factually be dead forever
>>736832947>You haven't explained that other then "well I don't want too".he doesn't want to because that's a really boring and annoying way to play the game because you'll have to backtrack the dungeon
>>736832585>Genuine question but why do BotW/TotKfags need to resort to pretending like anybody fucking played/plays Zelda 1?Because some of us actually play video games that existed before the N64.
>>736808860I am so tired of this gaslight man
>>736833005>clearly defines what he means by same generation (pre 3D Zelda)A post describing the dishonest nature of botw/totkfags being read dishonestly by a botw/totkfag. Many such cases!
>>736833026that's awesome though. you can always play the original or the 3ds remake if you want to play original OoT. let people have fun with exciting new game design.
>>736833074Pre-3D isn't a generation, you dumb redditor.
>>736833108>BotW>exciting and new
>>736833062What's boring and annoying is following the "intended" order and playing like a drone without seeing what you can do in a game.
>>736833074yea i knew what you meant but the phrasing bothered me. also i like botw but i've never played zelda 1
>>736833067Apparently neither have botw fags if they think the games are remotely similar to Zelda 1Zelda 1>2D>6 hour game>extremely small, compact, and dense map>9 dungeons>dungeons are combat focused>no towns or quests>minimal tutorialization or distractionsBotW>3D>60 hour game>extremely large, empty, and spread out map>4 dungeons>dungeons are puzzle-focused with very little combat>full of towns and fetch quests like a shitty MMO>excessive tutorialization and distractionsBotW is closer to Assassins Creed Origins than it is Zelda 1, objectively speaking.
>>736833183How many times are you going to copy-paste this?
>>736832585>pretending like anybody fucking played/plays Zelda 1?Zelda 1 was a fucking multi-million seller in its heyday. Less people played Wind Waker.
Zelda becoming a shitty collection barren open world instead a puzzle based game is the end of gaming to me
>>736833067The sales chart you post yourselves shows how massively unlikely it is that BotWfags are actually epic diehard Zelda 1 purists.
>>736832691>dishonestlyHow to spot the assblasted OoTfag.
>>736833208until it gets refuted>>736833213Makes sense, Wind Waker is the worst 3D Zelda
>>736833224It sucks but you'll get over it.
>it’s not gonna sellBack in my day we didn’t give a single fuck about sales. Pajeets and other subhumans invading the internet have ruined everything about gaming by hyperfixating on useless shit.
>>736833276Because a big word was used?
>>736833183Based and correct.
>>736832567You misunderstand. My point is that LTTP isn't open world or completely non-linear. It still has item gating and progression. The guy I'm talking to acts like the game is exactly the same as BOTW, where all the dungeons are optional. I'm simply telling him that none of the dungeons in LTTP are optional, nor can you beat them out of order, not without going into them first. For the record I love LTTP, flaws and all.>>736832947>The Titan Mutts are mainly used to access dungeons. Again, what exactly is preventing you from getting something and leaving?The point is that you still have to enter it. LTTP still employs a large amount of linearity and item gating, more than what BOTW and TOTK do. Hell, if we're really using this line of logic, then we could argue that OOT is just as non-linear. As soon as you grab the item from a dungeon, just leave before beating the boss and go to another. With OOT you can even sequence break using speedrunning glitches, so not even event flags can stop you. Hence why Zelda being "open world" and "non-linear" has always been a silly meme. It has SOME moments of openness and nonlinearity, but the games still use gating and progression. >The Hookshot is completely irrelevant for exploring the Dark WorldIt's important on death mountain, since there's a large part of it that's made much easier if you have the hookshot (though this part is mostly after you've fought Aghanim once)>You get the Silver Arrows from completing Misery Mire and Ice Palace.Exactly. That's still item gating. The implication you put off was that you didn't need to beat even a single dungeon to truly explore and get everything. Earlier you said it was fun to kill the helmasaur king with silver arrows, but you still have to beat bosses to do that. Kinda goes against your philosophy of "get item, leave dungeon without killing boss".>Yes, and you can enter the dungeon, get the Hammer, and leave.There is no reason to leave and not finish the dungeon.
>>736831767>BotW still has item gatingWhat item gating? The only thing stopping you from skull bashing all the bosses and easily beating the game in one go is hearts and a leveled up armor to not get one shot, there is no item that opens locked areas or has any special use. Hell I beat TotK barely leveling the batteries.
>>736833315No, because it's always the OoTfags shitting their pants when people say that BotW carries the essence of LoZ. You literally can't help yourself by admitting that you were never a Zelda fan.
>>736833382>The point is that you still have to enter itCool, and what is what exactly is preventing you from getting something and leaving? >LTTP still employs a large amount of linearityYeah, I'm done. I corrected you mutiple times on a game you have zero knowledge about yet you desperately want to pretend you know want you're talking about.
>>736833394>What item gating?Post your savefile or copy of the game and I'll tell you.
>>736833493>Cool, and what is what exactly is preventing you from getting something and leaving? There's no benefit. Give me a reason why I should leave a dungeon without killing the boss, especially when I'm right next to the boss room and it would take me maybe a minute to do. All you're doing is asking me to do unnecessary amounts of backtracking for no reward. And for what, having a fleeting sense of joy that I accessed an area 5 seconds faster than normal?
>>736833663>There's no benefit.I just showed a very specific example of oneshoting a boss. How exactly does you personally not wanting to do something mean anything in the first place? It doesn't suddenly turn LttP into a linear game.
nigga who gives a fuck whether botw is the spiritual successor to zelda 1. what matter is whether botw is a great game and more fun than other zelda games, which it is.
>>736833769>I just showed a very specific example of oneshoting a boss. Okay, so I intentionally make the game too easy, when the bosses aren't that hard in the first place? That makes my experience worse, if anything. Afraid I don't see the appeal.
>>736834283>what's the benefit>here's a benefit>well that one doesn't countAmazing. You can stop pretending you have ever played LttP at this point.
>>736834402shut up pedantic retard. he's allowed to say that your supposed benefits suck and aren't actually fun in practice, and backtracking definitely isn't fun in practice.
>>736834402I'm not gonna say it isn't an option, but if given a choice between the two, for me it just makes more sense to beat the dungeon while I'm in it, and the bosses aren't exactly kaizo level dark souls prepare to die memes. They're pretty manageable, all things considered, so you don't exactly need silver arrows for them. IMO, this falls into "make your own fun" territory.
>>736834437I don't ever recall saying it was okay for casual retards to reply to me.
>>736834516>given a choiceSo it's a nonlinear game?>"make your own fun" territoryNever seen anyone on this board ever use this phrase and wasn't a massive pseudointellectual.
>>736833183>Apparently neither have botw fagsI played LoZ before you were born.>if they think the games are remotely similar to Zelda 1Your entire list is just saying "BotW is a big 3D game". No shit. No one has ever said or pretended that they play exactly the same. The point is that BotW is focused on unguided exploration of the environment similarly to LoZ, which is why people that liked one like the other. Your post is as aggressively retarded as saying that Thief and Ultima Underworld are nothing alike because one is a game where you steal things in linear levels and the other is a game where you explore an interconnected dungeon. I sure hope you're ACfag and there aren't other niggers this retarded here.>>736833228>The sales chart you postI have never once in this thread or any other posted a sales chart.
>>736834283Not him, but you should kill yourself.>Why would I do this?>For this gameplay/mechanics reason>Well that's dumb and I don't want to do that so it doesn't countReally, kill yourself.
i dont like botwwhats the point of the game if i dont get told how to go on my adventure so i can do it in a specific wayi don't want to climb any old rock, i want to follow the roads and ride my horse
>le actual Zelda is the first ever cartridge demo of link's 3 frame animations pooping from a balcony on zeldas head that miyamoto uses as a cup holder and sometimes wipes his ass with if you disagree you're le heckin zoomerGet over yourselves douchebags
>>736811820They did that with twilight princess and people didn't like it
>>736811820edgelord piece of shit, this is the same game with a 10 year old dressed like peter pan with a tree for a father, don't ruin it with this nonsense
>>736831426You mean he's showing you fake faggots that Zelda was never this ebin sickdark fantasy shit you're pretending it is?
>>736834954Zelda 2's story was fucking metal, what are you on about?
>>736834863Imagine getting this mad that the first Zelda game is a good game and that people like it.
>>736834987What's metal about it? Because they want to get Link's blood to revive Ganon? That's about it. The only time Zelda was ever close to being dark was Majora's Mask which they expressed in the marketing of the game in a game where the central theme is death and a world ending apocalypse.
>>736834704>>736834769>you can do this>but why would I want to>KILL YOURSELF CASUAL SCUM
>>736835029Please go ahead right now and replay it. I'm sorry young people (the target audience of video games) dont care about your mental masturbations and would rather play something fun and modern
>>736835150>ACfag>retardedChecks out.
>>736829523This is unironically a good chart of how good the games are if you adjust for NDS games and skyward sword bad marketing.
>>736811820>Weeeeeell excuuuuuuuse meeeeee princesssss!Dark as Vantablack, of course.
I'm glad botw and totk were super successful becausea. they deserve itb. oot babies have finally been relegated to being a loud minority, you guys have been shitting up Zelda discourse long before botw
>>736835150>why would you do this?>to try this thing out>well I wouldn't do thatYou can't be this stupid. Just kidding, you absolutely can. You and every other retarded nigger who gets mad that people like the non-linear adventure aspects of Zelda is a subhuman semen-slurping N64baby.
>>736835162>Please go ahead right now and replay it.I've played it many, many times and it's one of the games I still replay semi-regularly. You post isn't the gotcha moment you want to pretend it is.>I'm sorry young people (the target audience of video games)We're not talking about Roblox and Fortnite.
>>736835249>>736835192I guess OOT is a non-linear adventure on par with BOTW because you can reverse bottle adventure to skip all the dungeons and beat the game in 18 minutes.
>>736835279You have a terrible case of peter pan syndrome and zoomer derangement then. Have you considered that on the other hand no one wants to play your shitty 8-bit trash aside from (you) ?
>>736835146>t-t-that doesn't count
Skyrim killed dungeons in rpgs it exposed how boring of a system it is to be stuck in the middle of a large tunnel in an open world game being constantly blueballed by doors and 10 different mini bosses right where puzzles are to artificially extend the gameplay time when you're already levelled up enough or skillful enough to walk straight and one shot the boss and get your prize. Glad something like hollow knight or any other open/semi-open world game picked up on this and we have to deal no longer with fake open worlds
>>736835374I like LoZ and I only recently played it kek. You can play it as well, for free, right now in your PC. You can play it on a fucking browser.https://playclassic.games/games/role-playing-nes-games-online/the-legend-of-zelda/play/
>>736835372That's nice, but no one's talking about glitches.
>>736835374>You have a terrible case of peter pan syndromeBecause I don't pretend all video games are made for children? Most games are made by people my age older for people my age or older. Your assertion that all games are for kids is just wrong.
>>736835495I play games to have fun and chill, not to make a statement over your internalized generational one sided crusade against muh zoomers while being bored to death by pac man tier trash.
>>736833224BOTW and TOTK have the best puzzles in the series though, most of the puzzles in previous 3D Zeldas were extremely simple things that you always solved in the same way like shooting an eye with an arrow or pushing blocks. The open ended physics based puzzles you see in BOTW/TOTK are much more interesting than anything in previous Zelda games.
>>736835534It's still something you can do in the game, regardless of developer intentions. Do you think the devs behind LTTP expected you to leave dungeons midway in, for no reason other than to come back later and kill the bosses with silver arrows? If they did, then why wouldn't they make it so you could get the silver arrows immediately? Why arbitrarily lock them behind Vitreous and Kholdstare?
>>736835579>Most games are made by people my age older for people my age or older.You're like 40. No one mentioned kids either, learn to read.
>>736835639>BOTW puzzle>"put block on other block">BUT NOW IN LE 3D, OOOOOOH
I'm replaying BotW on Cemu with infinite durability and it really makes me want to fight enemies. The only downsides I see now are>You're hopeless until you get some armor>Rupees are scarce, meaning you'll need to sell materials or gems right away>Stamina is the big one for me, way too easy to run out and you'll want to get your wheel up as quickly as possible but your hearts are also needed unless you make hearty dishes and even then, the lack of defense renders it null>Because durability is no longer an issue, you have too many useless weapons that you can't say, sell for rupees. If weapons were disposable you should be able to pawn them with no problem to address the scarce rupee dilemmaOtherwise, I'm actually having fun but I gotta get some armor first.
>>736835618Obviously wasn't the same anon you were replying to.>play games to have fun and chillThen you can play LoZ with that link I just give you and you can see what it's an amazing game that everyone who likes video games should play, regardless when you were born or when you started playing video games.
>>736835641>It's still something you can do in the gameThat's nice, but you're a retarded nigger if you try to pretend that using game mechanics in ways the developers didn't think of and literally glitching the game are comparable.>Do you think the devs behind LTTP expected you to leave dungeons midway inConsidering they don't lock the doors behind you and that in LoZ it was a very intended mechanic that they intended players to frequently do? Yes.
Never played BOTW (haven't owned a Nintendo console since gamecube) but why would anyone even want to play it? Zelda was about solving puzzles with items and finding collectibles while being in a world that had conteasting whimsy and danger. ALTTP and MM were the 2 best games in the franchise for this reason. What is the point of another open world game when the market is saturated with them, but there aren't enough games with light puzzles, combat and exploration? Remember too these games are for kids, so they're not meant to be hard to figure out
>>736835709>that everyone who likes video games should playOnly a loud minority of nostalgia driven manchildren care about it, and speedrunners. The vast majority of people doesn't care about 4 decade old games with decrepit mechanics and graphics and no story.
>>736835652>You're like 40.Not yet, and that still doesn't refute anything I said.>No one mentioned kids either,Is this the part where you pretend you meant that the target audience of video games is "young people" which you define not as children but as people in the very specific time window of ages 18-28? That's be pretty fucking stupid, even for an illiterate zoomer mutt.
>>736830730The game itself, it's obvious they just fucking copied that shit wholesale lmfao
>>736835763>Only a loud minority of nostalgia driven manchildrenActually, it's just people who like good games. Can you specifically tell me what's wrong with it?
>>736835792So no source because you're a stupid shitskin monkey.
>>736835779Sorry you're upset about being wrong, not good for blood pressure you aging tranny.
>I'm a true Zelda fan>I just hate dungeons>and items>and lock-and-key design>and any sort of progression design>and story>and musicHow obvious does this bit have to become before this board just calls this faggot's bluff, accepts that he's an insincere consolewarring shitstirrer, and stops giving him (You)s?
>>736835825>you aging tranny.It's funny because you're a low test faggot whose hormones are fucked up AND you're too stupid to read or pay attention to anything that isn't short form video content.
>>736813916Based schizo ichiban
>>736835812>good gamesLMAO !
>>736812281It is an empty game. The sequel is the same game with Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts cars. What is there to talk about? Koroks we found under certain rocks? Weapons we found that broke 30 seconds later?
>>736835728>That's nice, but you're a retarded nigger if you try to pretend that using game mechanics in ways the developers didn't think of and literally glitching the game are comparable.Why restrict how people enjoy the game? You said it yourself, let people have fun.>Considering they don't lock the doors behind you They quite literally do, in many areas. Alot of dungeons have doors that lock behind you, one way doors, and places that you're not intended to go to until later. If you're talking about the main entrance never locking, I chock that up to the devs simply not caring if you leave or not. I wouldn't say it was an intentional choice they wanted for you, to leave mid-way through a dungeon and not complete it until later. Otherwise the dungeons would be more like OOT's dungeons, which have stuff in them that you can't access until you have items later in the game. LTTP dungeons don't have that, really.
>>736835830Hyrule Castle in BotW is the best 3D dungeon in the series. The items have tons of utility and can be used in lots of ways. Lock and key puzzles/gating is shit and the good Zelda games only used it minimally (OoT is not good). BotW absolutely has progression. BotW has more story and characterization than your favorite Zelda game. A premise to drive the plot does not mean a game has a good story or storytelling. BotW lacks field music for the most part, but it's the game in the series with the most good new tracks since LttP.
If we were still in the 1980's id understand why people would play this Atari reskinned garbage, since there was nothing else to play. Only mental illness can otherwise explain this.
>>736835920>Hyrule Castle in BotW is the best 3D dungeon in the series.*flies over everything*Bravo Nolan.
>>736835872Yup, god-tier game. Despite being extremely simple the combat and exploration is very fun. Running around the overworld looking for shit is genuinely a blast. And I mean that.
>>736835937You will never understand
>>736835880>Why restrict how people enjoy the game?We're talking about playing the game, not breaking it.>You said it yourselfI did not, you stupid little nigger. You're arguing with multiple people.>They quite literally do, in many areas. Which dungeons locks you in once you enter? Don't shit, don't dodge the question, don't move the goalposts. Just answer the fucking question. If you can't, then you need to immediately kill yourself.
>>736835957That's why the fucking cretin likes it. For months now he's been making elaborate arguments that boil down to "me not want play dungeon in series known for dungeon".
>>736835957>What do you mean I don't get locked in a room with an eye switch and a telegraphed lock and key puzzle that amounts to simply using the tool I was just given with no thought put into it?>That's not a real dungeon!
>>736835967Yup>Wait for enemy to turn around>Mash A>Push a rock>Onto the next dungeonWhat a blast
>>736810335>it's like losing the tech for moon landings, they just effectively ruined their ability to do it.This is actually true. Game development is like an apprenticeship you have to constantly pass down the tricks of the trade otherwise the profession will get flooded by zoomers and jeets who grew up playing only BOTW. Within 10 years the entire concept of dungeon design will be lost to time because the Zelda team stopped teaching it and the old school devs will be phased out. If you need proof of this look at how studios are shittily reinventing character action games after a decade of soulslikes.
>>736835880>I wouldn't say it was an intentional choice they wanted for youIt clearly was, the game was designed to be non-linear.
>>736835872>>736835937LoZ is older than I am and it's still one of my favorite games. I'm sorry you're part of the retarded brown generation.
>>736835972>We're talking about playing the game, not breaking it.I'd say instakilling bosses with the silver arrows would count as soft breaking it. It's a very small step away from outright glitches, since you're intentionally destroying even the little bit of fun to be had fighting them.>Which dungeons locks you in once you enter?I already explained. the main entrances don't lock you in, I said that. However, the dungeons do have doors that lock behind you, to prevent you from breaking progression in the dungeon. Some have rooms not meant to be entered a certain way.
>>736836012Im grateful dungeons are dying>>736835484
>>736808528True, I don't know anyone who would want the three macguffin hunt and locked down over world.
>>736808528They could try making a game that doesn't feel like it was made for babies. That's why Skyward Sword flopped.
>>736836005Holy kek you mean that's why people who like good 3D level design like it? Sorry it wasn't a boring OoT style dungeon where you shoot eyeballs but that garbage is never coming back and it's time you got over it.
>>736836009>I'd rather go into the glowing neon vomit room where there's a ball and cup and i have to grab the ball with my shiekah slate and put it in the cup
>>736808528>OoT remake releases>Sells a billion copies>BoTWniggers seethe when their version is left abandonedOne can only hope
>>736836037I guess your peers moved on, got a wife, job, kids and you're still playing the same 8-bit atari reskin out of spite. Explains a lot
>>736836005I like it because it's a large interconnected dungeon with outer and inner areas, winding paths, secrets paths, multiple points of entrance, little combat arenas reminiscent of LoZ dungeon rooms, stuff to find about lore, a unique shield, and phenomenal music. It's a proper dungeon, not a series of isolated braindead puzzle rooms with one central room that has a gimmick like all the shitty 3D Zelda dungeons. Now go ahead and make another shitpost where you pretend that everyone who likes it is one person, and that my saying I like all the winding interconnected paths means I like skipping it all.
>>736836012>entire concept of dungeon design will be lost to timeWeird how you say that when BotW's Hyrule Castle is the very definition of a proper vidya dungeon.
>>736836105....then you woke up from your dream.
>>736836045>the main entrances don't lock you in,Great. Glad you answered and proved that they don't ever lock you in a dungeon and you're free to leave.
>>736835824If you can't recognize the watered down copy paste job of an identical syructure/gameplay loop, I can't fix your 40 iq. Let's be real though, you wouldn't accept your own retard argument if someone used it on you, you just want to fucking bludgeon and criticism of your shit taste with any fallacious argument you can get your hands on.
>>736836010You're trying to shitpost yet you're just reminding me how fun the game is.
>>736836086If it's a physics based ball and cup puzzle instead of braindead, lock and key garbage like this? Absolutely. Only special kind of retarded faggots that know less than nothing about what makes video games fun pretend shit like this is good dungeon design.
>>736836194But there's no reason to leave. No practical reason. I don't want to make the game easier for myself, so using the silver arrows outside of ganon's fight makes no sense. I don't want to backtrack to a dungeon, just because I was too lazy to finish it the first time.You wanna do it, fine. It's not my cup of tea.
>>736836127>Phenomenal music>6/10 track
>>736836105You realize an OoT remake is going to have real physics and puzzles and exploration, right? They aren't making a remaster and Nintendo isn't making OoT style games from a mechanic standpoint anymore.
>>736836245>to be fair, you need a high IQ to enjoy ball and cup BOTW puzzles
>>736836110You know nothing, brown little monkey.
>>736836045>d say instakilling bosses with the silver arrows would count as soft breaking it.You're genuinely stupid. It's time people wasting their time with you.
>>736836273Then it's not an OoT remake
>>736836204>If you can't recognize the watered down copy paste job of an identical syructure/gameplay loopNever happened. You're just a retarded nigger who thinks Ubisoft invented open worlds and your only "argument" will be a pathetic attempt to call any enemies in an overworld "copy paste bandit camps" like every other retarded N64baby who knows less than nothing about games because you don't actually play any but instead just shitpost about ones you read here.
>>736836330Why would I purposely make a game trivial and unfun? If you just want to one shot everything in the game, why not turn on godmode and put /killAll in console?
>>736836251>But there's no reason to leaveAnother anon already gave one. You saying you wouldn't do that doesn't change the fact that he gave a reason. They also don't lock you in the dungeons at all. You're wrong and have no leg to stand on.
>>736836271>Hyrule Dungeon tracks>6/10No one believes this. Stop embarrassing yourself.
>>736836394and I'm saying it's a shitty reason that causes more problems. All you're doing is just making me backtrack unnecessarily.
>>736836340Yes it is. Learn the difference between remake and remaster.
>>736836435>and I'm saying it's a shitty reasonThat's nice, but irrelevant.>All you're doing is just making me backtrack unnecessarily.No one's making you backtrack. People are just saying the game allows you to backtrack and doesn't discourage it at all.
>Switchfetuses still trying to argue that BotW/TotK is the closest thing to a game neither they nor the current leads making Zelda ever beat
>>736836381>hurr durr why does this nonlinear game let me play in different ways??????You're so dumb.
>>736836467Remaster has the same engine and source code. Remake is built from the ground up but still has the original game's concept in mind. What you're talking about is something completely different.
>>736820452OoT is the game closest in terms of structure to the original Zelda of anything in the series. You won't be able to refute this.
>>736836536It's insane that I've literally beaten Zelda 1 more times than the guy who's been directing and producing the series for a quarter of a century.
>>736836536>N64baby pretending to older than anyonelol
>>736836520>>736836556>you can do it, but there's no reason toWhich is why I'd never do it. There's not enough incentive. The incentives you offered only make the game worse. To justify leaving a dungeon before beating the boss, you need something a little more meaty, like having it affect the plot or something. Maybe having the ending change based on who you beat first. Something extra, otherwise there's no point.
>>736836636I'm sure you played LoZ anon. That's why when you talk about you're always wrong about it.
>>736836627uhhhh structure doesn't matter, my heckin "vibes" while walking outside and playing dress up with my dolly Link is what matters
>>736836627>OoT is the game closestthing Zelda has to a moviegame.
>>736836671You tried to tell me that dungeons weren't an important part of Zelda 1. You don't get to walk away from that.
>>736836580>Remaster has the same engine and source code.Wrong.>Remake is built from the ground up but still has the original game's concept in mind. Also wrong.You're making up definitions that don't exist, and no matter how hard you insist that's what they mean, it'll never be true. Absolutely no developer uses your asinine definitions. Remasters frequently are rebuilt because devs lost the source code, like with the recent FFT remaster. Remakes frequently change the fundamental gameplay, like the RE remakes.
>>736836712That'd be Twilight Princess
>>736836130I actually agree with this and consider it one of the strongest things BotW did. It genuinely is much closer to an old school combat and exploration focused dungeon than any other 3D dungeon and does a better job of giving me what I want out of dungeon exploration than any of the other 3D games, which lean way too hard into relying on room to room puzzles.
>>736836627I can't tell if this is a joke, bait, or a genuine OoToddler who hasn't played LoZ post.
>>736836727No joke, I'm not even shitposting. Miyamoto himself says that.
>>736836717Holy zoomzoom. RE and FF are Numakes, not remakes. FireRed and LeafGreen is an example of a remake where they add concepts and keep the same fundamental gameplay.
>>736836659>but there's no reason toSomeone gave a reason. You not liking it doesn't mean there isn't a reason. You don't like experimenting in games. You probably don't leave dungeons in LoZ, either, even though it's very intended there.
>>736836712BotW added voice acting, made that a selling point, and had collectible cutscenes as a major collectible.
>>736836627everyone knows all the parts of Zelda 1 you had to do in a certain order were the worst ones, anon
>>736836805>You not liking it doesn't mean there isn't a reason.If it's a silly reason, then it's not really a reason, is it? Again, it falls into the category of "making your own fun" which is just open world slop levels of game design.
>>736836785Yet Twilight Princess has a way longer narrative and cutscenes.
>>736836802>NumakesI actually burst into laughter reading this. I've never seen someone use the specific phrase "zoomzoom" who wasn't a completely retarded nigger who knew less than nothing about what they're arguing about. You're not an oldfag and you don't know anything about video games, tendie.
>>736836713That correct. Are you really about to argue about a game you haven't played? An anon posted a link above if you want to play the game for the first time. Finding secrets via environmental interactions is the bulk of the game.
>>736836839>If it's a silly reasonNot to him it's not. Sorry, but you're not the arbiter on what's a good reason and what isn't.
>>736836802>RE and FF are Numakes, not remakes.What the fuck did I just read?
>>736836849Cool story, faggot. Remakes don't change the fundamental gameplay even if Capcom or Square Enix are trying to change how it's done. You weren't here for the threads where people said the FF7 Remake wasn't actually a remake.
New Zelda has to invent an innovative formula so that next generation of gachas can use it, but implement it 100x times better like Genshinlikes did with BOTW.
>>736836914A very good shitpost.
>>736836858Finding new ways to interact with the environment, as in shit I couldn't do the moment I started the game, is as much a part of the game as actually making those interactions. In fact, if I just had every item from the get go, the game would be directly much worse.
>>736816934The only real way to play the original as intended is to use the Japanese manual which has a different map that doesn't spoil as much
Pick one and why
>>736836951>is as much a part of the gameWoah, you mean the bulk of the game is finding secrets via environmental interactions which you do on the overworld?
>>736836879>Sorry, but you're not the arbiter on what's a good reason and what isn't.I disagree
>>736836942>You weren't here for the threads where people said the FF7 Remake wasn't actually a remake.Several problems with that. The first is that FF7R isn't actually a remake. Nomura is just a chuuni faggot who thought he was being clever by making "Remake" the subtitle. The second is that I brought up FFT as an example of a remaster, not 7R as an example of a remake. The third is that it's not just Capcom and Square, because I can list other examples likes Silent Hill 2 or Black Mesa. The fourth is that your definition of remaster makes absolutely no sense and just highlights what a tech illiterate moron you are. The last is that I was absolutely here shitting on 7R as soon as it came out for many reasons including its story/place in the continuity. In fact, I've been here talking about FF7 and FF as a series in general since long before you got here.
>>736837081LttP > LoZ > LA > Oracles
>>736837146Sometimes, importantly, they give you a new element with which to look for new interactions.
>>736836358Ubisoft didn't invent them, but botw is copying far cry 3 verbatim lmao. And I don't need to call any other open world game's encounters copy paste because they all have more than 4 enemy types to actually make encounters different with. Far Cry 2 is good and 3 is pretty good, just less focused. Blood Dragon is good, Elden Ring and Genshin are non-shooter open worlds with orders of magnitudes more enemy types and more interesting things to see. You just like ugly, worthless dogshit.>>736836556There aren't different ways to play botw, just a different order to do identical bullshit dozens of times until you get borsed and go kill da bad mans. You just use the same 3 weapons to kill the same 4 enemy types and run the same fetch quests in an arbitrary order.
>>736837081Color because I'm an Oraclesfag.
>>736837326Shitposting retard is so mad he doesn't even realize that post is talking about LttP and not BotW.
>>736837238Crystal Chronicles is an example of keeping the same source code but adding on to it. The new Final Fantasy Tactics is a remake despite marketing calling it a remaster.
>>736836785>Not getting in the way of gameplay>Getting the best camera angles to get the best shots>Not at all different from how 3D cameras at the time were using specific angles to avoid spoiling more inexpensive graphical effects>Moving the camera for the player instead of LARPing that dual analog is a functional control schemeMiyamoto says that in interviews, but early 3D was pretty much the first time that the camera was an actual concern, so it's natural that they were thinking about it and using whatever language fit and that meant relating to movies since they already made use of camera movement and shot composition.Despite the use of the word moviegame, most "cinematic experiences" make next to zero use of actual kinematography, it's just a pejorative word used to describe their cookie cutter "here we go again" gameplay and their insistence on cutscenes and QTEs that gradually morphed to pointless walky walky exposition dumps where you don't do anything. These games were plagued by poor performance, bad writing (you need good writing in order to convey gameplay without exposition dumps after all), comically oversimplified gameplay, etc. because they were made to be shit out rapidly on a shovelware schedule.
>>736837326>Elden Ring and GenshinI was going to reply to you and talk about how stupid it is to pretend that Ubisoft popularized the concept of enemies in an overworld when plenty of other games do it, but you're clearly too retarded to have any argument with. You're genuinely braindead and have shit taste in games.lmao
>>736837309>SometimesWhat do you mean sometimes. That's the main thing you're doing retard.
>>736837382>this one game I'm able to mention is an example of half the criteria I gave for remasters which is keeping the same source code and working off the same engineYou think remasters are essentially HD texture packs. That's wrong. You are an idiot and no amount of damage control will change that. FFT is a remaster, not a remake. The various DQ remasters over the years are also remasters. Live a Live is a remaster. You don't know what remaster means nor do you get to redefine it when not a single game developer follows your definition.
>>736837456I'm talking to someone who thinks BOTW is a successor to Zelda 1, I'd be lucky to have them acknowledge that there's even one item you don't start with.
The quality of a zelda game is relative to how twunkish link looks >TP>Botw>Ww>Oot/mm adult linkGod tierChibi link games = good to ehRest = boring mental masturbation trash
>>736837521I'm talking to someone who has never played LoZ and I'm glad you made it clear. Good shit.
>>736837490If you mean the 3DS versions of VII and VIII, and the other versions of XI excluding the 3DS version of XI, then yes those are remasters. XI is a companion game much like Sonic Colors on the Wii and DS are companion games.
>>736836759See I know you aren't refuting this and probably think that LttP is actually more non-linear or something because you don't know any better. Like, OoT actually even has completely optional dungeons, which LttP originally never offered, and lets you do stuff like obtain and use Epona to access late game areas as soon as you become an adult, which is a level of flexibility that LttP doesn't do.Each of these games, like LoZ, make you do a selection of at least 9 main dungeons in order to finish the game, and gives you meaningful freedom about how you go about doing that, but OoT is consistency more open than LttP in ways that's more true to how the original LoZ was.
>>736837583>If you mean the 3DS versions of VII and VIII, and the other versions of XI excluding the 3DS version of XI, then yes those are remastersAnd yet they don't run on the same engine, making your definition wrong.
Will we finally have fun dungeons with purpose?
>>736837552I played and beat it, retard. That's why I know it has items you don't start with, but that you need to beat the game. The game is finding everything you need to win. Unlike Breath of the Wild, where the game will start in a winnable state.
>>736837631My mistake then. They are remakes.
>>736837597>think that LttP is actually more non-linearIt is.>b-but I can abuse the Water Temple's shitty level geometry so that means the game is mostly railroaded!Nope.
>>736837413"Enemies in an overworld" isn't the core point of the argument you worthless subhuman, keep flinging the goalposts around to get out of defending your slop.
>>736837642The concept of dungeons in video games is outdated in general, all dungeons should be made with an open ceiling and the puzzles should rather hide good items and be made awfully difficult as opposed to tedious and progress killing
>>736837643>I played and beat itI'm sure you have, that's why you ignored the very specific example of the environment interactions being talked about which is gotten from an item you buy from a shop. But you definitely know what you're talking about.
>>736837726What implies to you I ignored what you were posting? Do you think I'm some kind of OOT purist just because I don't worship BOTW? I know not all items should be in dungeons, if that's what you're trying to get out of me.
>>736837597>See I know you aren't refuting thisBecause there's nothing to refute. OoT is an extremely railroaded game and is very linear. It's the game that started the shitty >get a key or permission to enter a dungeon because finding them in the overworld is no longer a challenge>get a dungeon item>use it to solve some simple puzzles>use it to stun the boss pattern that plagued the 3 games, and offers the least variety in puzzle solving or creative use of items of any 3D game. LttP has far more non-linearity, and the biggest part of LoZ is exploring the overworld and interacting with the environment which is something LttP mostly preservers. OoT does not. All you have to do is compare the world switching mechanic. In LttP, when you switch worlds you can do it in lots of places and it's woven into puzzles and navigation. In OoT, you can only do it in one spot where you watch a cutscene and don't get any of the navigation and exploration puzzles LttP has. One is a game centered around exploration, the other is centered around cinematic experiences.>Like, OoT actually even has completely optional dungeons, which LttP originally never offeredWrong. You're not going to get away with redefining what a dungeon is while also downplaying all the caves or hidden areas LttP has. LttP even has stuff like the Cane of Byrna tucked away in an optional cave.>but OoT is consistency more open than LttP in ways that's more true to how the original LoZ was.Wrong. The order you do things in and more importantly how you do things in OoT is incredibly rigid and consequentially boring.
>>736837490>You think remasters are essentially HD texture packs. That's wrong.You're right, it's wrong because Crystal Chronicles' remaster also added netplay, voice acting, costumes, and new dungeons. It's not built from the ground up like the FFT remake.
>>736837692I still like them in an aesthetic sense and personally don't view dungeons as a tedious thing so long as it's something a player might run into and explore naturally and may be tied in with part of the world narrative. To me it would just be more or less the same thing as playing in any open area and doing quests there, I think. They could have rewards that are unique to them and useful but not necessary to progress the story to offer a sense of options to explore. I just don't want to find myself questioning "why am I doing this?" like when I was doing dungeons in BOTW; I never felt that way in the previous 3D zelda games.
>>736837652Nice damage control. You don't know what remakes or remasters are.>>736837869>It's not built from the ground up like the FFT remake.It's also not running on the same engine as the GC original, which was the stipulation.
>>736808528Yeah it will because Zelda at this point is 100% Reddit and they will shill it to the ends of the earth.
>>736837865>pattern that plagued the 3 games3D games*
>>736837821You're trying to imply that LoZ is about the dungeons when it isn't. They're short little combat gauntlets that don't take up too much take. When in reality most of the game is wandering around the overworld going back and forward to different areas looking for secrets of anykind, getting upgrades, and collecting resources.
>>736837865Breath of the Wild was very necessary not just for the Zelda series which by Skyward Sword became completely linear but the gaming medium as a whole which failed to make a truly non-linear open world game besides shit like Minecraft. The problem is that unlike older Zelda games like Link to the Past it doesn’t have interesting things to discover in the overworld since it’s all so repetitive, and doesn’t have intriguing dungeons like the other 3D games.
>>736838016And what is the end goal of the upgrades and secrets you find in the overworld?
>>736837980Then why do people consider https://youtu.be/XT9ujZosKzY?si=zpWUUDehihdSiNyz as a remake of https://youtu.be/bljP8W_gE1g?si=ziWG4zT89VRmG5hM when it has the same fundamental gameplay?
>>736838159Killing Ganon and saving Princess Zelda.
>>736838208Which is accomplished by?
>>736837975That's just because you're retarded.
>>736838265Ah okay, you're just a zoomer revisionist trolling.
>>736838365Nope, I'm just glad OoT style dungeons are dead in the water.
>>736838235Getting triforce pieces. I know you're trying to pull a gotcha but it's not going to change that Miyamoto specifically did not make a dungeon crawler.
>>736837692They should focus on side quests giving you good items again before the dungeons do. Giving you garbage in BoTW for doing side quests was one of the worst things the game did.
>>736837692>The concept of dungeons in video games is outdated in generalNothing is outdated, people should be able to make whatever game they want. If someone wants to make a game in 2026 that can run on a fucking Colecovision, they should.
>>736838426>getting Triforce piecesIn?
>>736838540Go ahead and show me where Miyamoto said LoZ is a dungeon crawler.
>>736838607https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/01/the-first-zelda-was-almost-100percent-dungeons-according-to-miyamoto>Did you know, in the original Legend of Zelda, at the beginning of the development it was just dungeons.> However, with Ocarina of Time, for the first time we didn't spend as much time on the dungeons.
>>736838760>random website not affiliated with nintendoNice try. Let's see a real source.
>>736838760That's not Shiggy saying LoZ is a dungeon crawler. That's him saying the original idea for LoZ was to be a dungeon crawler. He realized that idea was retarde and nobody would care about the game since dungeon crawlers were already a thing in 2D and 3D games, so him and Tezuka made an overworld where finding the dungeons themselves became the main gameplay.
>>736838857You made up the argument that Zelda 1 was supposed to be a dungeon crawler.
>>736838883>made upYou literally just posted that.
>>736808576This. Why did games become about profit and not fun?
>>736808528BotW isn't incompatible with the old formula. you can have the huge open world and just not give all the powers right at the start but instead hand out dungeon treasures.
>>736838914No I didn't.
>>736838978No, you very much did.
>>736838993Nope.
>>736839007Yep?
>>736839042Prove it.
>>736829523Wow I really fucking hate goycattle
>>736839059>Did you know, in the original Legend of Zelda, at the beginning of the development it was just dungeons. There was no overworld mapWhat do you think a dungeon crawler is?
>>736837672>b-but I can abuse the Water Temple's shitty level geometryEven if you completely ignore that one exploit, the game is still more open than LttP is without even considering glitches or weird bullshit.>>736837865>get a key or permission to enter a dungeon because finding them in the overworld is no longer a challengeAbsolutely rotflmao. LttP is the game that uncharacteristically marked the exact location of objectives and dungeon entrances directly on your map, along with giving you the fortune tellers who straight up tell you what to do. It is the game that started to make Zelda excessively handholdy, though thankfully the series immediately retreated from this and returned to actually finding dungeon entrances being a core aspect of the series. OoT is the game expects you to actually interact with the world and discover shit yourself, giving you vaguer directions.>All you have to do is compare the world switching mechanic.The Dark/Light word switching is a cool idea, but everything LttP does with it is straightforward and just involves walking to a spot you can't access in the Light world and warping form there. I do wish that OoT has used its time travel for more, and you are free to fault it for this,>Wrong. You're not going to get away with redefining what a dungeon isI don't need to. The Well is a dungeon, and it's optional, you never need set foot inside it at all. It can also be done as early as you want as soon as you get time travel. But if you permit a redefinition (to whatever areas get changes in Master Quest) then the Gerudo Training Grounds would also count.>Wrong. The order you do things in and more importantly how you do things in OoT is incredibly rigidYou have no idea what the fuck you're on about. As an adult you immediately get access to and can fully complete Forest, Fire, the Ice Cavern and get Epona and cross the Gerudo bridge and travel to the desert with her.
>>736839114Nuh uh. You just think in absolutes.
>>736808576FPBP
>>736839165Is that it? You can't offer any more arguments? You can't even answer what a dungeon crawler is?
Why not just remaster and rerelease the best games as a true 2in1 without needing passwords and shit, Oracle of Ages and Seasons?
>>736839235You made that up as my argument. That's your problem to deal with. Not mine.
>>736839124>the game is still more open than LttPYou can complete dungeon 3 before completing dungeon 2 in LttP and that's before the game opens up more. Can you do that in OoT?
>>736839272No need to move the goalposts now. I asked for where Shiggy said LoZ was a dungeon crawler and you couldn't provide that.
>>736839275Yes, actually. The game even has alternate text for you getting the Zora's Sapphire before the Goron's Ruby, so they accounted for it.
>>736839329You asked for that because that was the nonexistent argument you hallucinated.
>>736813879An it’s been stuck at that for the last 3 years.
>>736839416>You asked forand you couldn't provide it since it doesn't exist.
>>736839452So why should I be supporting an argument you made up in your head?
>anything more than 4 tiny optional dungeons is now considered a "dungeon crawler"
>>736839497Why did you post that article when I asked?
>>736839595Because I was addressing your original argument before you pivoted to fighting an argument that your brainworms put in your head. You went from saying "dungeons aren't important" to "you think Zelda is a dungeon crawler" because I had you on the ropes with pointing out what the purpose of finding shit in the overworld was.
>>736839385Not only that but Jabu-Jabu requires the use of bombs exactly 0 times.
What did people have against the Oracle games?
>>736839713Seasons is awesome, but Ages is full of constant fucking busywork fetchquests between dungeons.
>>736839713Zoomers not peopleAnd the answer is graphics
>>736839662>You went fromWrong. Like the little retard you are wanted to pull gotcha about LoZ being focused entirely on the dungeons which was wrong.
>>736839901Not once was that my argument. Never. Again, you're an unmedicated clown and you keep creating phantoms in your head that don't exist.
ZELDA WON
>>736839984Sure. Definitely not retard.
>>736808528It didn't sell because it's open world, it sold because it was a Switch game. Almost every franchise on the Switch sold way more than they ever have. Mario Odyssey isn't open world, Smash Ultimate isn't world, Mario Kart 8 isn't open world, Mario Party isn't open world, Animal Crossing isn't open world. All of those games sold 2-3 times more than they ever have.
>BotWfag ruins another thread with schizophrenia and fetal alcohol syndrome
>>736840091You think dungeons being important = dungeon crawler. You can only think in extremes.
>>736813073>Nobody wanted a Zelda game with an empty world, shitty vehicle crafting and survival mechanics and 100 seeds to collect that give you literal shit as a rewardUnfortunately normalfags do. Mainstream audiences always ruin everything for fans of franchises.
>>736813646>including the system(s) it launched with and marketing.This is a large part of it that no one fucking acknowledges. Most Nintendo franchises have sold more than they ever have by a huge margin on the Switch. And btw they're not open world.
>>736838940which would be really fucking gay, you can shove the limitations up your ass
>>736840162Yes, finding the dungeons themselves is the main point of the game. Does that point need to repeated over and over again to you because you're downplaying the emphasis on environment interactions and exploration which is the core of the game?
>>736838760>almostkey word, fag
>>736808576fpbpalso idgaf about others
>>736840304It still showed that dungeons were an important part of the game. They're the reason for the overworld, not the other way around.
>>736808576fippity bippity
Tears of the Kingdom sold 2/3rd of what botw sold, and did not have the same legs botw did. In fact botw outsold it one quarter despite the newer game already available. Open world is not the cheat code you think it is. They have to actually try, and not recycle the same game and sell a DLC for $70.
>>736840296>Yes, finding the dungeons themselves is the main point of the gameCool, thanks for conceding that you're therefore whining about them for no reason other than out of duty to defend one of BotW's many terrible design choices.
>>736840331If dungeons are the most important thing why did he let go of his 100% dungeon idea? Because when they made the overworld the first time around they were all clumped together.
>>736840367>thanks for concedingConceding you were wrong like all retards talking about LoZ? Is that why BotW is also about finding dungeons?
>>736840436There's no finding dungeons because BotW tells you where they all are right away lmao>>736840387Again. You're hallucinating arguments.
>>736840491Guess there's no finding dungeons either in LoZ since the manual exists.
>>736840331Guess how important the overworld is by comparison.
>>736840540It doesn't show all of them. And the original Japanese manual revealed even less.BotW shows them all. Because there's only four. Fucking FOUR.
>>73684063050/50
>>736840639>doesn't show allSo it shows you where there are dungeons anyway?
>>736840835The Famicom Zelda 1 manual only shows 2 out of 9. BotW shows 4 out of 4.
>>736840994That's not answering the question. So it shows you where the dungeons are anyway?
>>736841051>the dungeonsNo. I'm not letting you throw out an ambiguous phrase to make it equivalent to showing ALL the dungeons. Games giving you some initial direction is expected, especially stemming from a key criticism Miyamoto had for games like Ys. BotW dumping everything you need on your lap at the start isn't, that's just babying the player to assure them that they will never ever encounter real friction in the game.
>>736841137So it does in fact show you dungeons?
>>736840639>BotW shows them allBotw doesn't show you where Shrines are or other places like Eventide Island is.>those aren't dungeonsI would love to see you rationalize these places as not being designed like vidya dungeons simply because they are outside and not inside when they have treasure to gather and bosses to kill.>there's only fourThere's 7. You're ignoring Hyrule Castle, Champion's Ballad, and Master Trials.
the oot zealots sure have been angry and busy while i was gone. what a stupid thread as usual.
>>736841289>Botw doesn't show you where Shrines areYOU LITERALLY GET A FUCKING RADAR FOR SHRINES
>>736841137Botw doesn't even mark Kakariko village, yet tells you to go there.
>>736841382Because you keep making shitty, purposely wrong arguments. And you didn't go anywhere.
>>736841442You get a radar upgrade from completing one of the towers, but it doesn't show you where the Shrine is. It just hints at the direction and you can follow it. Or turn it off because it's annoying.
>>736841442You have to unlock it, going to Hateno village and fulfilling some criteria, all not marked on the map
>>736841504You're the one who's been wrong all this thread like every other Zelda thread.
>>736841487Or the Dark Forest or any of the Labyrinths.
>>736841487The quest marks it AND Bosphoramus tells you exactly where to go.
>>736841591The quest doesn't mark it
>>736841610Anon. This is getting embarrassing.
>>736841442Where's the radar that leads you to the Lost Woods?
>>736841646I didn't remember it doing that, I certainly didn't use the map to get there. Level design was too good.
>BotW marks the dungeons for you>NUH UH BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MARK THIS NON-DUNGEON STUFF
>>736808806Nintendo turned an iconic series into their idea of an immersive open world and absolutely knocked it out of the park. The botw formula is superior to literally all open world games and even if its not "old zelda" it fit so well i say fuck it let them ride with that. >>736809732Reusing hyrule was a slap in the face though and is only reason people hate totk. The whole building shit is very cringe too and i hope it goes away
>>736841697Gigachad retard LOL
>>736841697IT LITERALLY DEFAULTS TO THE "SEEK OUT IMPA" QUEST MARKER AFTER YOU GET THE QUEST HOLY SHIT YOU DIDN'T PLAY THIS FUCKING GAME
>>736841716Still waiting on seeing how you can rationalize a place like Eventide Island as not being a vidya dungeon.
>>736841746There isn't a single big open world game that doesn't make botw look like steaming dogshit and I already don't like most of them
>>736841748>>736841752If you used the quest marker you didn't beat the game.
>>736841771Because it isn't.
>>736841137>BotW dumping everything you need on your lap at the start isn'tBotW doesn't do this. You're being an idiot and assuming that giving you some main tools at beginning somehow means you're never given other tools or that it isn't the only 3D Zelda that doesn't push back in anyway, especially when it's the first in the series where death is a possibility Master Mode.
>>736841746>The botw formula is superior to literally all open world games andit's not even close!
>>736841137Oot dumps a sword and shield and deku nuts and stick and slingshot and ocarina in your lap at the start. Why don't you complain about that ever.
>>736841794Be specific. How is it not? How are places like Eventide Island or in the case of TotK, The Great Sky Island, not designed like a vidya dungeon?
>botwfag proven to have not only played Zelda 1 but somehow also not the best-selling game in the series eitherso it really is just shitskins giddy over something white people liked being taken away from them
>>736841854The Slingshot is found IN THE FIRST FUCKING DUNGEON and the Ocarina is obtained after it.
Ugh, why does Zelda mark the dungeons, it's so weak sauce
>>736841909That was a dungeon? it was like a Botw shrine. There's a reason the deku tree is nobody's favorite.
>>736841950Because 3D spaces confound your stupid ass?
>>736841879>botwfag played both botw and Zelda 1based, that's all you need
>>736839124>OoT is the game expects you to actually interact with the world and discover shit yourself, giving you vaguer directions.What version of OoT did you play where Navi doesn't exist? The first thing that happens when you enter the Deku Tree is her telling you how to open a door. And OoT has other forms of hints just like LttP.
>>7368419653D? we talking about Botw or
>>736841965wait I thought pre-BotW dungeons were agonizingly long horrible ordeals
>>736842015>agonizingly long horrible ordealsThey're not wrong.
>>736842015no, you see anon, oot is the best game ever, even when it's really weak design, that's great too, because it's oot
>>736842043>GRRRRR GODDAMMIT NINTENDO MAKING ME WAIT FOR A FEW SECONDS I NEED TO GET THIS DUNGEON DONE WITH SO I CAN GO PLAY CROSSDRESSER AGAIN
>>736842074I can't imagine actually defending such shit level design with this response.
>>736841854you dont use the deku nuts or ocarina the whole game, retard. you DO use the shekia runes the whole game.
>>736842043Now post the Oot one where they push the block along the yellow painted arrows.
>>736842098What version of OoT did you play where you aren't using the Ocarina constantly.
>>736842143do you use it more often in master quest?
botwfags have adhd AND claustrophobia, I finally figured it out
>>736842158Don't know, but you use the Ocarina constantly in OoT, from playing Zelda's lullaby on the symbols to warping.
>>736842174and arachnophobia and trypophobia
>>736842213oh, well botw still sucks and oot is still awesome, it has dungeons
>>736841965The Deku Tree literally has one singular puzzle that makes use of 3D space (jumping into the web). That's the extent of it.
>>736842276and yet it's a grueling hideous chore for you
>>736842249BotW has better designed proper vidya dungeons that actually make use of 3D space.
>>736842096>TP is so bad and OOT is so good>because there's so much waitingI feel deja vu
>>736842292Nowhere in that post did I say it was hard. I was explaining what you mean by use of 3D space.
>>736842292Did Navi have to tell me how to open a door and how to press a switch, shut up Navi !
>>736842276wow you're right, man if only OoT had longer dungeons and more than four of them
>>736824359>basically killing dungeonsThere are more dungeons and dungeon-like areas in both those games though. It actually has that 50/50 split you're looking forward.
>>736842510OoT dungeons already have enough padding, no need to add more. Ans there's 7 main dungeons, not 4. I have no idea why you would say 4 when Hyrule Castle is more of a "dungeon" than any of the Divine Beasts.
>>736842603>botwfag who can't read also doesn't get sarcasm
New Zelda should strike back and steal minigames from Genshin!
>>736842667I know you're shitposting, I was just correcting the record. And I'm not a "botwfag". LttP is my favorite Zelda game.
>>736842603>Hyrule Castle is more of a "dungeon" than any of the Divine Beasts.How? At least the Divine Beasts have the barest form of progression and gating with the terminals. Hyrule Castle doesn't even have anything like that.
>>736842778>How?Someone else already posted an explanation: >>736836127
>>736842827>I like it because I don't have to do anything in it and can go right to GanonWe know. We've read his dissertations a thousand times about how much he fucking hates having to engage with mandatory content in Zelda games.
>>736842889Man, you really need a fucking name at this point. You're so obvious everytime you post. Guess DeS and DaS1 are shit because you can "skip" levels in them too. Guess Deus Ex and Thief don't have levels since you can "skip" those as well. But please do tell the class how you know anything about level design. I would love to hear it.
>having a melty because you're one of the few retards that can lose to acfag in an argumentGrim
>>736842994I already have a name. It's Eric. Wait no, it's Macaco. Hold on, possibly Nintendeen. I think there were a "Barry" and "ACfag" in the mix as well.>why aren't you criticizing non-Zelda games for not being like Zelda games in a Zelda thread?Well gosh and golly gee, that sure is a puzzler.
OoA/OoS are the best and still are.
>>736843243>doesn't answer the questionImagine my shock there's another schizo shitposting like a little bitch in Zelda threads. Faggots love to talk bit can never walk.
>>736843297It's a Zelda thread. Why the fuck are YOU talking about other games?
>>736843325>Zelda thread.What does that have to do with anything? It's not a Ys thread yet you brought up Ys when you were talking about LoZ with other people. Oh wait, gonna pretend that wasn't you now?
>>736843325And I'm still waiting for you to answer the question. Go ahead.
>>736843297You've been trying to act like a "hardcore" gamer over alttp for years, pipe down.
>>736843365Ys was brought up by Miyamoto in discussing his design for Zelda, you absolute dipshit. Where does Demon's Souls come in?
>>736843390No. Your question isn't relevant to the thread. Eat shit.
>>736843412And? What makes thinks you you can't talk about something while using other examples? And that question is "relevant", you worthless ape. You started shitposting about a game's level design, and you all of sudden don't want to elaborate on it. Almost like you had nothing to say in the first place.
>instead of automatically giving you all of the Champions' weakening beams from their Divine Beasts against Calamity Ganon, put beacons that toggle them in 4 locations in Hyrule Castle, hidden behind either a set of puzzles or tough encountersWow. 2 minutes of thinking and I already made Hyrule Castle an actual fucking dungeon with actual fucking goals while still keeping them optional to keep the autismo who hates actually playing dungeons happy.
>>736843647>it's the same exact level but uhhh there's more stuff in Amazing. You're so brilliant and definitely not a complete and utter retard.
>>736843635I brought up Miyamoto's direct comments to discuss how it influenced how he conceptualized Zelda's questing structure. YOU were blustering and hoping I take your sidetrack bait to stop criticizing modern Zelda. There's no point giving into your retarded derailment attempt.>>736843742>there's things to do in Hyrule CastleOh my god how fucking horrifying. You really do just want to do as goddamn little as possible.
>>736843796I don't give shit what you brought up. You're just crying about random examples of other games having non-linear design to show that only the biggest, shit eating retards cry when games have levels that can be optional in it, and that's it. And like a little bitch refused to answer the question which was the most important point. You're totally not a complete fucking ape, that's why your "idea" of improving Hyrule Castle (maybe that's what you're trying to say) is "well ummmmmm just add more stuff I guess". Such a worthless faggot.
