Which Final Fantasy game has the worst battle and progression system?
Back then I would've said VIII, but now it's XV
>>736824962FFX progression was good though.
>>736824962gambit system is fucking retarded.
>>7368249621, easily
>>736825193Yeah, it's better when the game plays itself without strategy or input from the player, as evidenced by FFXV
>>736825193t. could not figure out the system
>>736825095Filtered
Iirc, to get the best possible stats in FFXIII-2, you have to use the right level up materials per crystarium node, or you might end up with Serah having too low of magic/Noel having too low of attack to actually beat some of the DLC bosses
II. I like that you can level the magic up to make it incredibly strong, but on the downside brand new magic is totally useless. It’s so weird getting shit like meteor and seeing it do less damage that a basic fire spell because you got Fire 1 up to level 30
Either XIII or XV
>>736824962Fails of Cold Steel
>>736824962FF2 easily, Saga cancer should never have existed.
>>736825678filtered
>>736825303Saying 1 and not 2 is sort of hilarious.
>>736824962We like the Sphere Grid here.
>>736824962Ffx2 no questions asked
>>736824962Just the combat system? XV
People need to start championing the Expert Sphere Grid the way they do Critical Mode in KH2. I'm trying it for the first time, and I'm actually excited to level up and go to the Sphere Grid now, as opposed to the absolute chore that the normal version is.
>>736825401Both are shit.
>>736825095I don't even remember XV having a progression system. I remember you would gain XP and had to sleep to cash it in, with better hotels giving you a multiplier. But to my recollection, you just leveled up and that was it.
>>736824962At least shit like the Sphere Grid and License Board gave you options. The Crystarium is about as linear a progression system as the actual game.
>>736824962Uh like literally FF1? You know the games with basically none?If you mean from, say, FF6 onwards the answer is obviously 15, but not counting that I'd say 12. Fake mmo weird stuff. Even 13 has better combat. Actually 13's combat is better than people say but it LITERALLY has an autoplay button that works for like 50% of the game.
>>736825193Guess what!
>>736828503nta but you have an AP skill tree in XV that is not only tied to the combat but also tied to the world exploration my biggest problem with it is how unbalanced is the AP needed vs how little AP you get playing, so theres a lot of cool stuff that you will miss
>>736830673XV needs a remake
>>736824962FF2 is the obvious answer. But behind that, I think FF12 was pretty boring. The license board spammed so many Accessory slots and the battle system basically came down to "walk around and auto-kill stuff", and the game has less story focus than usual for FF so quite a bit of the game is just walking and auto-killing in dungeons. FF13 was largely worse because you can't take over for party members even if you want to, but at least paradigms require more thought than gambits.
>>736824962FFII has a bad battle system BECAUSE of its bad progression system.
>>736824962FF13. The battle system must have a million take downs. I'll just say it was insane having forced CPU control for most of the party. The progression system looked like a sphere grid, except 99% of the time there was no choice at all, and when there was a choice, there was one offshoot away from the critical path and it immediately went to a dead end so you'd go back to the one path anyway. The slightly more complex part is that a character would have 6 roles with different sphere grids, except half of them made every node so expensive you just wouldn't use it.
>>736825193Filtered
>>736825163Its literally peak. it's an extremely basic system with a moderate amount of flexibility and some opportunities for creative choices that seems way more complex than it is which serves to make the player feel more rewarded for successfully navigating it.
>>736824962FXIII, its just a lazy version of FFX's.
XII and it's not even close.
>>736824962VII
>>736828987A bad system is worse than no system. And 1 has the optional ability to upgrade all of your characters into an advanced class. It's very cool exactly 1 time which is more than some of the other games can say about themselves.
retards saying 12 is the worst are the same retards who complain about the glacial battle transitions in the turn based entries. and when 12 has seamless exploration and combat they whine that it's boring.
FF2 because it's just broken and underdeveloped. The entire game pretty much feels like a beta/prototype of the SaGa games.>t. has played through FF2 on Famicom, PS1 and PSP
>>736836043>no wsccredentials rejected
>>736824962Which one's the best?
>>736824962Nigger, how is doing 99,999 damage bad?
>>73682496213
>>736825163FFX is my favorite FF and I think the sphere grid is its biggest flaw.
>>736824962I dunno, probably one of the boring ones like 4, but certainly not X and VIII, they're the best.
>>736824962>progression2>battle9
>>736827564To be honest both sphere grids are dreadfully boring the entire game, it's a very standard progression and you get new abilities and spells at general set intervals so you can't really fuck around much. But when you start doing the monster arena (which already requires essentially a foot in the door because the monsters there are ungodly strong) and you get like 50 levels per kill and can do an entire world tour in no time does it really get fun.
>>736824962Worst battle system is either XIII or XVWorst progression system is either XII or XIII
>>736842447The "progression" in 13 is just hilariously bad. It's like they took Sphere Grid's visuals but just made it a linear path (like the whole fucking game). You might as well remove the whole system and just give those stats/skills on level up and save people hours of unlocking nodes in the screen. Also the weapon customization was also ass, you don't have money/materials to do anything for majority of the game.
XII was honestly boring to me, but XIII's was also stupid as well. I had more fun with XIII's combat system than I did XII, though that isn't saying much. I also would say FFVIII, but apparently, I was too stupid to figure out the system. I wonder if the developers of FFVIII later realized how stupid the average gamer is/was, so they started making the combat systems easier/simplistic. FFVIII is certainly the most controversial. Lots of people love it for the characters and story, not so much the battle system itself. I know I'll get a lot of hate but I really enjoyed the FFXV battle system, kinda would like to see more JRPG's use a competent party AI system where your team members can autonomously do cool combos off your attacks or with one another. People can hate on XV all they want, but I give credit for certain aspects of the game. The party system was fun, and yeah, I know about that webm where the dude is just holding one button and fighting an enemy, but that isn't how the game is meant to be played.
>>736832003Path of Exile's skill tree was a massive improvement on this idea.
>>736824962>Worst battle system11, everything wrong with MMOs rolled into one>Worst progression systemTie between 2 and 12. Imagine having to PAY so your characters do stuff
>>736824962FF2 and it's not even close.
>>736835879FF12 kind of plays like an infinity engine CRPG, where regular battles are basically solved just by letting the AI hit shit until it dies, with boss fights and such requiring micromanagement. though you can't really kite stuff and you don't have to worry about friendly fire with offensive magic
>>736835136Came here to post this.Not only did they fully commit to battles effectively being nothing more than miniature cutscenes that the player has nothing to contribute to in, but the Materia system is so fucking basic and stupid and ultimately pointless. You can just randomize everything and it makes no difference. Every character will still play the same, there are no genuine builds or strategies, and that's saying a lot because it's not like its predecessors had much at all either, but VII was the lowest of the low.Fuck this stupid ass moviegame and all that succeeded it.
>>736842804>Tie between 2 and 12. Imagine having to PAY so your characters do stufffunny how you don't mention 1 and 3, where you also need to buy magic spells.
Final Fantasy VII Remake
>>736824962Sphere grid it's just busywork to lengthen the gameThere are not enough branches (before finishing your character side at the end of the game) to justify it
>>736842979>Every character will still play the same, there are no genuine builds or strategiesskill issue I'm afraid. in my most recent of 7 I had my squad built with specific archetypes in mind. Cloud was the physical attacker/combat support with heals and shields, using Cover to tank for the party. Red was my wizard/summoner, and Yuffie was the blue mage/thief/general weirdo with stuff like manipulate and some status ailments. If every character ends up the same it is because you made them that way.
>>736825193Truth nuke
Are there even any good ones? I've played I-V, VII, XII, XIII, XIV, XV, and XVI. They're all pretty fuckin' bad.Are people legitimately playing this series for anything other than music and fapbait lmao? This shit barely qualifies as a video game, let alone an RPG.
>>7368249629 because of the slow battles, stupid equipment ability system, and broken stats.
>>736843131How did your average encounter play out?
>>736828987>I'd say 12. Fake mmo weird stuffYeah the week 12 came out, 11 players stopped logging in for a few days, then came back saying this. 12 was basically a shitty, offline FF11 with a bot built into it so you didnt even have to grind or farm. The graphics are almost even the same, 12's were basically just 11's gfx engine pre-WotG.
>>736843201Cloud would attack, Red would use whatever spell I had next to an all materia and Yuffie would attack, steal or use a weaker enemy skill like Matra Magic (I banned shit like Trine and early Beta because they're too good for when you get them). Boss fights would have Cloud cast the barrier spells on himself, Red would summon until he couldn't then it'd be the biggest offensive spell I had and Yuffie would steal, poison if they weren't immune and then would attack or use enemy skills appropriately. I would kind of cheat and use enemy skill on Cloud for stuff like White Wind and Big Guard too, but I'd restrict his usage to stuff that fit the archetype I had chosen.
>>736843428Did you ever die?
>>736842804>11, everything wrong with MMOs rolled into oneI agree but probably not in the way you think. When it came to the actual combat, gear collection, endgame activities, gearswap meaning horizontal gear progression instead of vertical (the big flaw with other MMOs) FF11 is top tier and unbeaten. 11's b minor flaw was SE's reluctance to do any sort of balancing, or when they did it was huge sweeping changes with no follow up. Unbalanced/broken shit was left for years and years completely breaking the "meta" until a new status quo would be announced out of nowhere. 11's main problem came from crafting and resource gathering being basically worthless except for a half dozen specific items. Shit had some cool ideas but the economy behind the game just wasnt there which is needed in an MMO, but SE absolutely refused to modernise the auction house or do any balancing with the way gear/crafting worked as a whole. At least in other MMOs you can easily lvl a craft, use it for day to day convenience or small profits or even maybe make your own gear upgrades with it. FF11? Leveling basically any craft is completely worthless unless you want to spend millions maxxing it out. When its maxxed you can only craft the same 1-2 things everyone else is trying to craft and profits were slim cuz of how awful the market was. Doing any sort of lumber, mining etc was a waste of your time unless you were crafting a specific leveling craft and needed 1 item in bulk and you were a massive poorfag hanging onto hope that you can maybe lvl a craft without bankrupting yourself. >can only sell 7 items at a time>buyers cant see the current prices of items, only price history>extreme lag on the menu>right click-drop down console menu bullshit instead of anything sensible>inventory and sending items in 11 was dogshit as well
>>736843487no, but the game is generally easy and I know it pretty well. I did fuck up in the arena when getting omnislash and wiped once, I don't remember what effect I rolled that bricked my run though.
>>73682496213 14 15 16a generational run of absolute slop. keep musing on why noone under 40 cares about FF, Yoshi, it's truly a mystery.
People will rightfully bitch that FF games are too easy but nobody ever plays them on active max speed Also FFVIII is the worst
>>7368249626,7,9&10 are top tier. 12 and 13 both fucking sucked. Set up 3 basic gambits and the entire game is solved and in 13 you just spam auto with some stance switches. I have no idea why square thought either of these were a good idea. At least 15 tried to implement and action combat system, even if it ended up not working out with Noctis & Ardyn, although I'd argue all 3 party member's combat are good.
>>736824962>BattleFFXV, there's literally no though process behind it besides smashing the attack button, but more importantly, it is a modern game so even if the older FFs combat was bad, they can be excused.>ProgressionFFXIII easily, because there isn't any progression at all until post game, the crystarium system locks you of most skills until you get to a certain point in the story, and even when you unlock it entirely it's mostly for post game stuff.
>>736824962Battle system:16 >> 10 >> 13 >> everything else >> 15 >> 12Progression system:5 = 10 = 13 > 7 = 9 = 15 = 16 > 8 >> 12 >> 1 = 2 = 4 = 6
>>736843517Isn't FF14 similar with crafting? It's all an enormous timesink for the sole purpose of being a timesink, there's nothing actually useful you can make with it.
>>736825163It's functional until you hit the Mountain and then it shits itself and you need to grind out half the grid.
>>736843176Five is fun and the best
>>736825193unicorn overlord raped and gaped you
>>736844173I wish this game played like bahamut lagoon/Devil Survivor instead of ogre battle. moving around a map like a SRPG but having battles play out by manually picking commands for your units is pretty sweet. every battle being an auto battle is pretty lame in comparison
>>7368249626
>>736844326I wish this game came to PC... I mean, I did play it at 60fps using a nintendo emulator but I really didn't want to have to go through that.
>>736824962ff7 may not be the "worst" but it's the only one that's ever really annoyed me. shuffling around materia feels like a chore, and to really use the system correctly you're incentivized to be shuffling materia around constantly to level them up. it doesn't make me feel like i'm making interesting choices / builds, but like i'm always making compromises and fiddling around in menus.ff8's system is kind of cool imo but the game does such a poor job of introducing the player to it that i basically played the game completely wrong my entire childhood
>>736824962Why is anyone saying anything but FFII
>>736844020>It's functional until you hit the Mountainthis is how I would describe FFX as a whole
>>736844578Because FF2 is fun for low lv / stat runs?
>>73684389414's is like a dumbed down version of it yeah. Of the two games, 14's initial crafting from 2010 was actually really good but noobs hated that they couldnt just press button > get item, so they changed it. In 11 though it was absolutely necessary for a server's health for some high lvl crafters to be able to make shit, but the issue was everything else under them was worthless. Combined with a really shit auction house system and badly managed game economy, it lead to crafts being worthless if they werent max lvl and resource gathering was a waste of time. Lots of gear was worthless too. Like 80% of the shit available to characters lv50 and under had basically no stats on it, you can play naked up to around lv60 if you want. It was weird playing another MMO after 11 and being able to do stuff like mine nodes or chop trees and actually make money, or being able to craft it into gear I could use. SE had absolutely no idea how to balance an economy in any of their games, let alone 2 MMOs lmao.
>>736824962Definitely FFXIII. The Paradigm Shift system was undercooked (significantly revitalized in XIII-2 which I will give credit for) and the Crystarium system was a farce, like the Sphere Grid except a straight fucking line so not a grid at all and completely retarded. (Also overhauled in XIII-2, but I struggle to say for the better.. it just made the game grindy as shit)
>>736824962>battleFFXII>progressionII>>736825163It's just illusion of choice and complexity. The grid is linear until super late game, where every character just becomes the same.
>>736825450I 100 percented that game no guide and had very little issue anywhere
>>736844913There are jumping off points for the sphere grid by the midgame, you just shy away from them because you're a coward.
>>736844913>The grid is linearBeen playing X for the first time recently and this is how I've felt. Cool idea, but I'm like 2/3rds the way through and its all been one linear path with minor stat boosts and occasional off-branch pockets
XIII's combat was good except for game-over on leader death. The crystarium was shit as earlier anon pointed out.The biggest flaw was the actual game's story progression rather than these systems though. The combat could be really exciting and rewarding but you are gatekept to using one strategy until the end of the game where everything opens up and you are actually challenged. Even the Crystarium progression is forgiveable if it opened earlier and the game had a wider variety of challenges.The battle system isn't treated fairly because the game is so shit but I do think they were onto something
>>736844802I think there's a weird balancing act MMO devs try to do, where they want crafting to feel useful and reward your time spent but they don't want players to feel punished if they don't take up crafting. But you can't have your cake and eat it too. Generally it just leads to crafting being useless.
>>7368445782 works fine if you just play it without trying to game the system.
>>736824962FF2 for progression system because you can regress stats by changing how you fight. If Gus suddenly casts a spell say goodbye to that strength. And the go doesn't help because you get packs of undead in gangbang numbers that hit for gravity damage. The higher your ho beyond a middle threshold the harder the game is for you. You're just supposed to know Worst battle system is FF14 which is an insulting game of DDR commands running down a synchronized timeline. Stand in the right spot for five minutes and half the fight is over. Stand in the right spot for five minutes and rote memory press your attack buttons and you win. When even the FF1 fights are less random in how they behave than a game from the mid 2010s that's pretty fucking insulting to the player's intelligence. Might as well hand them a paper with 40 symbols and tell them to spend a few hours committing those in order in memory and then reciting what's on the page without errors.
>>736824962I get bored every time I try to play XII so I dont remember much but iirc all its systems are completely fucked
>>736844173Its the better gambit system imo.
>>736824962>battleXV because it’s shallow and annoying>progressionXVI because there is no progression
>>736825193that whole games combat is fucking garbage>let's give the player real time control but make it pointless>the game still plays itself and attacking is on a timerBOLT ME TO THE FUCKING GROUND IF YOU'RE GONNA FORCE ME TO JUST WAIT MY TURN ANYWAY.Action combat or Turn based. PICK ONE. you can't do both.
>>736824962ff14
>>736848516WoW hadn't come out yet to teach them how fun MMO combat works.
>>736824962>BattleXV. There's no player needed.>Progression system.Dirge of Cerberus. You need to choose at the end of chapters whether you want to buy ammo or gain experience.
>>736830673Yeah, I just played through FFXV and the Exploration Tree was fucking useless unless you planned on doing a SHIT TON of the side quests.Just look at the skill Chocobump. Costs 32 AP to unlock.>Gain 1 AP for every 0.875 miles traveled by chocobo.Meaning you had to run 28 miles on chocoback just to BREAK EVEN on AP cost of the unlock. Meaning you have to fucking run around on a chocobo for OVER AN HOUR. Keep in mind this is a game where you have a fucking car which is faster and you can have an NPC drive you around (or even fast travel to locations you've already been), so why the fuck would you ever want to spend so much AP on that skill???
The only FF games I've played are VII, X, XIII, XV and XVI and the only ones I'd say aren't dog shit are VII and X. I'm just starting VIII now but are there any others I should try? I'm kinda beginning to think that FF doesn't have that many good games.
>>736844437This is the one time I really resent Vanillaware not bringing their games on PC. This game really needs mods for its difficulty and unit balancing to be compelling all the way through and replayable.
8 has one of the most convoluted and confusing progression systems of any JRPG ever made but once you figure it out it's not that bad.
>>736850402You'll definitely like VI. You should like IV. You could like III, V, IX, X-2 and XIII-2. I doubt you'll like VIII by the way, since you don't like XIII or XV, even if X and VIII fans have significant overlap.
>>736851678Well I'm only a couple hours in and I'm enjoying the junctioning system. It's a very strange and interesting system to work with. Don't really like level scaling though shame about that.
>>736824962FFII, FFVIII and FFXIIIbye/thread
>>736852059Well, good luck to you then of course. Based on what you said there, I'd upgrade V to should status also.
>>736852241I do plan on trying all of them eventually at least. OSTs alone make them worth playing if you ask me.
>>736825163Skill trees with +X% nodes are fucking garbage.
>>736825163Would have been great if each character got their own grid instead of just starting at different points in a singular unified grid cause by the end of the game everyone has the same shit and thre's nothing unique about it. FFX's system is only good in the early to mid game.
>>736827564Expert grid is just the superior way to play up until you have to deal with hard capping stats because endgame bosses are heinous bullshit.
>>736850932It's not confusing at all.
>>736852551Expert has marginally lower stats but it literally does not matter because you can cap all of the relevant stuff anyway.
>>736852490I said it earlier and I'll say it again, PoE's system is a massive improvement. Both because you have a limited number of points you can spend at max level, and because the grid is a million times more open, you have like 20 different directions you can go in from your starting point. It's really hard to make a character that you won't think long and hard about maybe respeccing a point or 10 here and putting them somewhere else. PoE has the benefit of coming out more than 10 years later though + another 10 years of constant refinement, so I can't really criticise the Square devs that hard for this.
>>736832003That's only the Expert Grid. The original one is completely linear and braindead.
