>Throne Watcher and Defender are put before Throne of Want by Vendrick to stop Nashandra from reaching it>you, bearer of the curse, defeat them>Nashandra then attacks you>she attacks someone who defeated guards that she could notWas Nashandra retarded?
She thought you were tired after defeating the duo and she could finish you off and snuff out the First Flame via the Throne of Want.
>>736846652She couldn't get in before because she didn't have the King's Seal that's required to open the door
>>736847084ah, fuck, true. I kneel once again to the lore masters
>>736846652That was an awful final boss imo
>>736846652Because if she doesn't then: when?
>>736846652the entire plot of DS2 and reason that everything is fucked is because Nashandra was retarded
>>736847712ds2 only has good bosses in DLCs, though I really like some of them in the base game, it's just that they're way too slow or too predictable
>>736846652Would.
>Aldia attacks you after you defeat Nashandrawas Aldia retarded? I mean besides the autism.
>>736847889I don't think they've managed to beat this boss in terms of aesthetics.
>>736847881Love from Kazakhstan
>>736847889Almost all the bosses in base game DS2 are either gimmicks or level design focused, so they're never really that hard. Especially if you're the type who intentionally counters their gimmicks.
>>736847902https://youtu.be/b1Acm3NPrgU?si=O6QCsUuK7WZUhseA&t=129
>>736848318>either gimmicks or level design focusedso the same as DS1?
>>736848405no?Are you one of those DS2 retards?
>>736847712Other than Soul of Cinder and False King Allant, these games don't exactly have the best track record for final bosses.
>>736847712her introduction was awful too, they dropped the ball insanely hard. you get the foreshadowing with the painting, meet her, talk with her. she implies you should usurp the king. you walk through the fog wall next to her expecting some important boss but it's just two dragonriders lmao
>>736848405>so the same as DS1?Dark Souls 1 kinda gave up on that after Taurus Demon. Demon's Souls had the most gimmicks, alongside DS2.
>>736848490false king allant, gwyn, soul of cinder, gehrman/moon presence...nashandra sucks. what's even funnier, they added another final boss, and it sucks even more
>>736848553Seath has the crystal or else he's invincible, Nito has his infinitely respawning skeletons, Bed of Chaos, and you gotta kill Sif before being able to fight Four Kings or else you get vored by the abyssHell, Priscilla goes invisible, Pinwheel splits into 8 dudes, Centipede Demon's arena is 80% lava, Ceaseless Discharge has never been killed legit, Moonlight Butterfly is in the fucking air 90% of the time, Iron Giant can fall off the side.Shit nigga if you don't count these as gimmicks then I ain't counting any DS2 bosses as gimmicks either
>>736848606Gwyn and Gehrman are mechanical disasters. I mean fights themselves, not the vibes.
>>736848405Sure, and like Demon's Souls too. Which is why these games have simple and easy bosses compared to later titles like BB or DS3. I don't really get your point, I wasn't even saying DS2 bad for having bosses like that.
>>736848695Yeah but they appear randomly, not right after each other.
>>736848606Okay, but most players will have 3 boss fights in a row. It makes sense for them to be easy.>>736848443>no, DS1 has no level designWow.
>>736848320Miyazaki later incorporated this into ER and you can see Malenia's golden panties
>>736848725German is one of the 4 good boss fights in Bloodborne and Gwyn will kick your ass if you can't stunlock/parry him
>>736848837Gwyn's fucking easy, you don't need parrying for shit when you can just tank his entire moveset
>>736848837>German is one of the 4 good boss fights in BloodborneHug his left and his AI can't do absolutely anything. Good base game bosses are just Gascoigne and Cleric Beast, period.>Gwyn will kick your ass if you can't stunlock/parry himThat's my exact problem, his recovery and follow-ups don't fit in the tempo of DS1.
nuSouls fans putting everything into health and wearing the heaviest armor available because elden ring taught them all the wrong lessons about how to play the game is so tiring
>>736848858Appreciate the help but that goes for almost every DS1 boss lol.
>>736848909>because elden ringthe fuck is this argument
>>736848792I'm not complaining about difficulty though.Yes the boss gauntlet is also bad design
>>736848931nufans started with elden ring and went backwards but are playing the older games like they were elden ring (damage is unavoidable so just tank it) instead of like dark souls is meant to be played (damage is avoidable, just learn to dodge and parry)
>>736848490Yeah, I beat Moon Presence first try with 1 blood vial. I was expecting another phase.
>>736848973>boss gauntletbut you can fight Watcher and Defender before getting Giant's Memories>>736849017people started off Dark Souls 15 years ago by leveling HP and holding up shield because no one developed the skills to roll in time yet, Elden Ring didn't start shit
>>736849068Are you me?
>>736849140well, we are all one person after all
>>736849084people were beating demon's souls by using clever rat ring/morion blade at 1 hp before you were even born
>>736848837>Gwyn will kick your ass if you can't stunlock/parry himyou're walking into the fight with like 20 estus flasks, it's not that hard
>>736849168yeah and you could easily pick up RTSR chaos zweihander in DS1 in like 20 minutes too, but your average normalfag is not going to do speed strats because they fucking suck at the game and can't pull it off.
>>736849084>people started off Dark Souls 15 years ago by leveling HP and holding up shieldWhat are you talking about? People already figured out with Demon's Souls that using the shield was the worst way to ever play these games and rolling was superior due to the crazy iframes and little stamina loss. No one seriously used shields until Elden Ring outside of meme builds in DaS2.
>>736849168thats only the poor fucks with a ps3 lmao, pc players like myself started with dark souls and used heavy armor, shield and barely any rolling
>>736848792you ARE one of those retards, wow!
>>736849241>what is the heater shield
>>736849227>chaos zweiouting yourself as a nufanyou have no idea how people played back then
>>736849206I fucking struggled, I had a Zwei, I knew I could just R2 him until he dies, I was still scared.>>736849241people=/4chan dweebs
>>736849241>People already figured out with Demon's Souls that using the shield was the worst way to ever play these gamesWhen playing Demon's Souls I got the assumption that rolling was a last resort and strafing was generally safer unless you got pinned against a wall. Adjudicator, Vanguard and the skeletons in storm level basically force that mentality on you early on. But idk, maybe that's just me.
>>736849297>you have no idea how people played back thenI can't believe I'm arguing with actual fucking retardshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyA8odjCzZ4
Shield has always been good in ALL of the games, you don't have to learn timings when blocking doesn't get you damaged at all
>>736849360You're just proving my pointI'm not talking about when the game came out on pcI'm talking about all the way back when the game first came out
>>736849445We're both talking circles around each other then
>>736849445No one fuckin played it before pc release ...
>>736849490Not reallynufans invest heavily in hp/armor and use weapons with high base scaling and take everything to the facepeople who played the series from the start play with minimal hp and avoid everything which is also one of the big reasons why OG fans dislike elden ring but nufans eat it up
>>736849430It's almost like the earlier games were focused around building for a specific role and being able to beat it all with any stat spread, so everything was strong and viable. And that idea continued into the later games even if to a lesser extent. Or something.
>>736849576what are the gas prices like in bizarro world?
>>736849576>nufansuhh yeah i did that too though way back
>>736849529Dude, they have. And they all finished the game SL1 hitless fists only. Because gamers were hardcore back then.
>>736849610I accept your concession>>736849615way back when you started on pc, zoomie
>>736849341How? The Adjudicator and Vanguard are a great example that if you block something you will die due to stamina drain and damage being done through the block.
>>736849648damn, my ancestors were fucking tough. All we got these days are a bunch of fucking pussies
>>736849690You might want to read that again.
>>736849690You agree with his argument
>>736849690not only that but you also get the adjucator's shield which teaches you about shields having positive effects even if you're not blocking with them so you're basically incentivized to carry a shield with you but to not use it unless you're in a really bad spot since it's too heavy
>>736849690Having no stamina is still a lot better than being dead.
>>736847902No wonder Vendrick lost his mind for herhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxRJSy1C9XAShe's both stunning, but also somewhat terrifying. Like she's on the edge between top model and uncanny valley
>>736849762>>736849784Whoops, you're right. I misread "strafing" as "shielding". He's right, the game does encourage strafing a lot, but rolling is equally as encouraged. Even Bloodborne addressed the mindset of blocking not being encouraged.>>736849847Having no stamina means you can't avoid an attack outside of panic rolling at that point.
>>736849936It's Demon's Souls, enemies attack once every 10 seconds
>>736849936>but rolling is equally as encouragedIt was super clunky in DmS and DS1 though, if you wanted a reliable roll you had to lock off which is a skill most controller users don't have (DS2 ganks are a proof of that).
>>736849991this, cardinal rolling is fucking AIDS in DeS and DS1, especially if you haven't figured out how to fastroll
>>736847712gameplay wise, yesNarratively and thematically she's one of the better ones
>>736849991>>736850065Genuinely never was a problem for me. Yeah, learning to lock off is something you have to get used to, but the dodging itself was never an issue.
>>736850186We will never recover from PCR, will we?
>>736849867What the fuck
>>736850423Marikafags would never...
>>736849867>>736850423she big
>>736849576This video came out before the PC release.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS_otrMAnJo
>>736851039explain what this video has to do with the conversation at hand please?
>>736851191That your claim is bullshit and people have been going facetank builds since the beginning. It is the strongest in Dark Souls 1 anyway.
>>736851372it's a pvp videothey're not gearing up to fight O&Sthey're there to fight at a very specific level with very specific buildshavel set is very good when people lagstab you from the other side of the planetapples vs oranges in this case though
>>736851503https://www.gamespot.com/articles/dark-souls-walkthrough/1100-6337130/Here's a walthrough from 2011, notice the gear and health bar.
>>736851695first image is 12 vit and 30 strength retard
>>736851753Scroll down, you imbecile.
>>736851841don't need to, your own link kills your argument immediately
>>736846652>attacks you right after a long and tough battle that left you weakenedHow is this retarded again?
>>736848490I mean, it's true that rarely if ever do FROM bosses end up being both good to play and thematically, but Nashandra really isn't either of those which is why it's so bad.You can have bosses that are mechanically atrocious and a joke to fight like ACSL Ibis that still have either a cool design, great music or a great buildup, Nashandra just isn't that, she's a garbage fight, her design sucks, her music sucks and she's not really what you would call a charismatic or interesting antagonist, she's just plain bad.
>>736846652> destroys the whole kingdom and ruins everything for everyone because she keeps having female moments.Yeah I don't think Nashandra was exactly smart. Just evil.
>>736851929Counterpoint - you are a faggot
>>736849867thats a huge bitch
>>736851997Nobody cares, Vendrick.
>>736848153> "I'm built different"> gets bodied too by a naked guy with a big stick after watching nashandra get beaten to death with a stickyes
>>736851870I don't know why I wasted my time. Everyone knew stacking armor for poise and facetanking enemies was strong and commonly used.Keep pretending to be some oldfag, while making no arguments or providing evidence.
>>736846652all the enemies in these games are retardedyou are a walking murder machine in these games. you are immortal, you slaughter everything. The bosses should be pledging loyalty not spouting some dialogue bullshit and attacking
>>736852189yeah it became very common after the pc release I'm not arguing thatbut in the DeS/DaS days before pc? Everyone recommended light armor and there were endless guides on how to get the grain ring early so you could get the ninja roll
>>736848320>>736849867Wait, when do you actually see the Queen in non-monstrous non-boss form in the game?
>>736852760in the room before the twin dragonriders fight, you can talk to her, i think she can even disappear like the big boob girl from ds1 after you shoot her several times but nothing happens
>>736846652She was desperate. What should she have done? Stand idly by while you fucked her over?
>>736852878It's been a long while, for some reason I can barely remember that.
>>736852760
>>736846652It's curious but I've never seen a single Dark Soul 2 criticism that didn't come from a genuine retard
>>736853336Because she is far in the back, you talk to her once and she doesnt really tell you anything useful. If you actually want to see who you're talking to you have to use binoculars
>>736853747your welcome
>>736847712She's a great foil to Gwyn and the Flame imo. Man's own darkness causing his downfall and all that but embodied, along with her sisters except that one who actually liked her king.
>>736854082>except that one who actually liked her king.Based Ivory chad getting a fragment of Manus to fall for him.
>>736846652Dark Souls characters don't seem to understand the concept of the bonfire for some reason. You think the reviving mechanic is in-universe lore but characters pretend it doesn't exist
>>736854176>Alsanna? wifed>Old Chaos? destroyed>Aava? petted>Aura? farmed
She never fought them
>>736854293>sensible chuckle? had
Will we ever reach absolute kino levels of peak that was the era of the dark souls 2 beta, the halo reach beta, and assassins creed multiplayer again?
>>736846706So this is the same logic as dying to Gerhman and then coming back again
>>736849017>No! Only the way I prefer to play is legitimate and acceptable!Fuck off, retard. No one is falling for the narcissistic "You didn't beat the game," masturbatory self-praise any more.
>>736847889>>736847712Wasn't one of the DLC bosses effectively just a buffed version of Nashandra?
>>736855315You seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding some entirely different topic but I'll ignore that I'm talking about the shift in attitude towards putting points into health which has shifted a lot from back in the day because elden ring basically made glass cannon builds unviable unless you go with some very specific magic oneshot builds. Otherwise you're gonna spend your first 30 levels dumping points into health and this kind of mentality has moved over to older games now too even though dodging and parrying was much more common back when they were new instead of the current heavy armor high health facetank meta
>>736855568It took me a second but I presume you're referring to the Sunken City boss, but overall she's a pretty distinct fight from Nashandra.
>>736849017>>736848909DS1 Poise tanking was such a leaned on mechanic that every game since has been bitched about for not having DS1 poise. What are you even talking about? Stacking upgraded Havel Armor and facetanking bosses was one of the most common strats people were recommended to lean into if they struggled with the game.
>>736849430It is only good in early games if you can get a good spear to shieldpoke with. Elden Ring is the first to make using a shield semi-optimal via Guard Counters being extremely good.
>>736855702Yeah that became common later, but not on release. People played it like demon's souls and you didn't really facetank anything in that game because it either sent you off an edge or you got scraping speared/soul sucked. Not to mention there weren't a lot of heavy armor options to begin with
>>736855596Dodging and parrying were not "much more common" back when they were new. Dark Souls 1 was a game entirely about people tanking hits in heavy armour dude.t. played it on PS3 at launch and PC at launch.
>>736855816You got literally everything wrong, holy shit.
>>736855840If you want to pretend that's real then I can't stop you but it's pure historical revisionism
>>736856013It's not. Parrying in DS1 netcode was a complete fucking crapshoot until people learned setup parries. The majority of people who ever played DS1 bundled in armour and hid behind a shield.Demon's Souls is the game where everyone was running around virtually naked. But they weren't parrying either, they were either DBS rolling, firestorm baiting, or a few other varieties of generally extremely aggressive playstyles which tended to revolve around stunlocking.
>>736855992Blocking is never worth it in earlier Souls games because if you can dodge or parry, that is always better. Blocking either costs stamina or stamina and HP, and often knocks your PC into a suboptimal position. Dodging and/or parrying is always better because it usually costs less stamina and doesn't damage you at all if you succeed. Blocking is only good if you have a strong spear and are able to shieldpoke through your block to do counter damage as the enemy attacks. Elden Ring introduced the Guard Counter system that greatly improved using shields because now every block is a set up for an enhanced counter that does more damage and breaks posture faster.
>>736856196you're talking about pvp meanwhile>>736855840is talking about pve
>>736856196You're mixing in pvp here all of a sudden, that's not what this conversation is about though
>>736856360I'm talking about both. Also I'm both posts you linked. So that's funny.>>736856369I'm considering both.
>>736855702Meta niggers gonna meta nigger. Even in Elden Ring, respecting is used to cheese bosses.
>>736856456This is the most honest way to play Elden Ring.
>>736856456That's pretty cool
>>736856353Dodging is better in every single game in 99% of situations and the only time it's not is basically just Consort Radahn.
>>736856525>This is the most honest way to play Elden RingSure, if you think reducing a battle to a DPS check is good gameplay.
>>736846652Its not like she had any other options.
Reminder Nashandra has a fully modeled pantsu
>>736856662just like Fiaelden ring truly is dark souls 2 2
>>736856615Guard Counters are one of the easiest ways to maximize DPS in Elden Ring with the least amount of buff stacking or finagling the game's mechanics.
>>736856637Every fight in any videogame ever made is a DPS check.
>>736856886I'm gonna be real honest with you my guyThe vast majority of people who have played elden ring don't even know how to perform a guard counterThey just jump attack with a big stick over and over until they win
>>736856942If guard counters were viable late-game pre-DLC instead of being a gimmick you use to kill some random Limgrave soldiers and forget about it, then maybe it would have been different. Truth is, Elden Ring has no gameplay balance and the summons completely break the entire thing, Nightreign is just rollslop.
>>736856886Guard Counters are great for everything they work well against, which is certainly a lot, but instead of rooting yourself to one spot you can just avoid shit and be actively positioning yourself for followups of your own or to avoid other enemies or just so much else that comes with applying any of this outside a vacuum. There's more than just straight DPS in what makes something a good choice or not.
>>736849867surprising lack of fanart involving human nashandra, given she's not half bad looking even by souls standards.
>>736848829What does rot smell like?
>>736854176ENTER
>>736847682>to the lore mastersIt's...it's the most basic gameplay element relating to the end. It's barely considered lore, mate, you just forgor
Dark Souls 2 is fucking weird. I love it.
>>736856886Guard counters are cool, but they're slow, and use an enormous amount of stamina for only a modest damage boost, meaning you won't have the stamina to guard a follow-up. As another tranon said, guard counters are good against things they're good against, but dodging is still the best and most consistent.
>>736857512i did a run with a friend where he built for guard counters and i made a pure magic character, he was pretty strong
>>736857407I'd really fucking love to play the original version. The entire story outline of what we know sounded so cool. It's ultimately still fascinating in an entirely different way as a final product though.
>>736846652As a summonGOD I really like this bossrush because I get to play Four Niggas in a Row but in Dark Souls.
>>736857054Guard counters are stronger against bosses than random mobs because they attack more often and most bosses in the game don't have any blocks nor dodge typical melee attacks. The hardest mobs to guard counter are spear knights and crucible knights with shields. Otherwise it is a very strong and safe way to play the game. Barricade Shield lets you tank full boss combos with basically starting levels of Stamina.
>>736857593Yeah they can be strong, there's just better options. But Elden Ring is kinda piss easy anyhow so pop off, king.
reminder that theres leftover data suggesting that the throne duo was originally going to be a trio with velstadt
>>736857896Quite honestly the beauty of Elden Ring despite what faggots will say is that as far as PVE goes you can more or less do anything you want and the game gives you options to lean into it and succeed. It is better than most prior games in this regard. If you want to go through guard countering everything you pretty well can. If you want to punch shit to death, go for it. If you want to be a healer and let spirit ashes do your work for you? You can do that too. For the most part the game has a good variety of bosses that will make each of these builds harder or easier. True in most of the old games too, but ER gives more options than pretty much any other.
>>736857636I don't know how long it would take, but I would love a way to port Dark Souls 2 into the Dark Souls 3 "engine" to give it the same weapon weight/feel and movement that 3 had. I still love 2, but it is definitely the odd man out in terms of how it "feels" to actually play the game.
>>736858579I personally really enjoy a lot of the animations in DS2's weapons and all that. I wouldn't miss the weirder character movement though.
