>>736856495
Sex with Fi.

The overworld structure is completely fucked. That alone ruins the game. And yeah, I don't like that this game tripled down on the intro bloat from the previous two games either. Like they seriously looked at the Twilight Princess intro and somehow decided they needed to go harder.

Motion controls were fun though.

>>736856495
I figured from the your statement that you liked dungeons where Fi goes "THERE IS A 74% CHANCE YOU SHOULD USE THE ITEM YOU JUST GOT" and no actual thinking that you like Breath of the Wild. Good to see I was right.

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>>736856495
The pumpkin girl is cute.

>>736856495
>>hardest game to 3-heart run
Don't you start with 6 hearts?

>>736857261
>I figured from the your
OoTsnoys not beating the sub-80 IQ nostalgiafaggot allegations

Ocarina of Time warped me.

>>736856495
Best combat in the series too

>>736856495
There is a 99% chance you're a faggot with shit taste.
You're the reason Zelda went open world.

>>736856495
wrong immediately. I won't read past the first line faggot

>>736858691
Hero mode, Nigga.

>>736859216
Hero mode is still 6 hearts lol

>>736856495
>transcoded chibishit like troon link

You're a fucking retard. SS has dogshit music, dogshit overworld, lame, goofy art direction. Constant interjecting from Fi in the original, constantly having to recalibrate the controls. Just total cancer. The only sort of interesting things about it are Zelda's design, the stealth sections, and a couple of decent dungeons (Cistern and Sandship). And I laughed out loud at >cut back on the overtutorialized intro. This has to be bait

bait thread but ss zelink is the cutest the series has ever been and Theme of Romance is probably the best track in the series

>>736856495
Skyward Sword was the best 3D Zelda before BotW. Being able to actually use your items because you unlock everything by the halfway point automatically puts it above TP and WW.

The Lanayru Sand Sea area is so cool.

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>>736856495
>transcoded chibishit like troon link
What breaks a person so badly that they bring this shit up unpropted.
Nobody wants to hear about those mentally ill fuckers

>>736859271
You recieve double the damage from enemies.

>>736856495
Isn't it a bit rude to attack all the other Zelda games when you just want to talk about your own favorite?

>>736856495
I'm glad you included the "3D" qualifier because A Link to the Past is objectively the best Zelda ever and it will never get better than that

>>736860379
OP's right, only effeminate zoomer homosexuals find that garish artystyle appropriate. Sorry you grew up with the dark age of Zelda

>>736860507
The first zelda game I had was Wind Waker with the OoT bonus disk. Got the GBA version of LttP at around the same time. My "dark age" was 3 different generations all at one.

>>736856495
>3D Zelda after BoTW
Those are both shit

Wasn't that the one with a giant picture of the wiimote in your ui or am I misremembering?

>>736860798
Breath of the wild is shit

>>736856495
>3-heart run
Go play elden reddit, parryfag

>>736860901
Skyward Sword is shit

This era of Zoomers taking advantage of the fact that they're so divorced from culture and history and trying to establish radically different takes on games we've discussed to death 10-15 years ago to satisfy their egos is pretty gay. You fuckers will never have the perspective to judge video games appropriately. You never had a chance, and your best bet is to figure out how to recognize and accept the best opinions of people who came before you. Have some humility, you little bastards.

Skyward Sword has some good things going for it and some very bad. Try again. Hint: the controls are the least of its problems.

>>736861228
Everyone agreed SS was the pinnacle of the series a decade ago; you're a performative mulatto zoomer roleplaying as a veteran of the series who likes games before you were born for gamer credit from fringe shitskin nutcases on /v/ You OOTbabs are getting really pathetic at this point.

>>736862467
Lmao. Lying little niglet. Thanks for confirming my theory. I genuinely pity your generation

>>736856495
>objectively the best dungeons in the franchise
Were they though?

>>736862467
>Everyone agreed SS was the pinnacle of the series a decade ago;
Not him, but I wish that was true. There was like maybe 2-3 weeks where the first players and people who lined up at GameStop for the midnight release of SS were absolutely loving it. After that, the Skyrim babies started to play it, and there was NON-STOP bitching after that point that the game wasn't Skyrim and they had to "waggle" and then openly wondering why their "waggling" wasn't actually working (because they were waggling the controller instead of realizing it has the motion+ and was closer to a 1:1).

>>736862910
I am him, and I'll tell you that you're right about that generally. I was one of those people who did my best to love the game. Gold wiimote, orchestral soundtrack, and all. Many retards complained about the controls, and I was one of a minority of people who disagreed. It wasn't perfect, but it deserved a lot more appreciation. For the most part that was just an extension of the "waggle" shitposting that never stopped from day 1 of the Wii. Skyward Sword has a lot of legitimate problems that still made it ultimately a pretty poor experience overall. The positives that the OP mentions are mostly true, but issues like the pacing, forced sidequests, ridiculous Fi handholding, lifeless sky area, etc. are some of the issues I can think of off the top of my head.

Ocarina of Time's best attribute is how impeccably paced it is, which is why the problems with Skyward Sword are death for a Zelda game. After playing Majora's Mask, the general lifelessness and way sidequests were handled made SS a low point in that regard as well.

I played the game 2.5 times to be sure I was giving it a fair shake (pun intended). One time I let Fi bother me for a fucking week straight about how my battery was low. I was so pissed off, because she was nagging me to change my batteries when they had a fucking week left of juice in them.

>>736856495
Been thinking about emulating this shit but can't be fucked to set up motion controls. Still worth it?

skyward sword was the first game that made me realize I can't trust reviewers. It got 10s everywhere and I thought it was just kind of ok, which stung more since I was absurdly hyped for it.
Also boy is it UGLY

>>736863965
Can your pc emulate switch games?
/ss/ got ported to the switch, that version let's you use the right analog stick to swing the sword.

>>736864078
Yeah that's how I was planning on doing it, just wasn't sure if the non motion controls were any good.

>>736856495
>best 3D zelda after botw
You will immediately cease and not continue to access the site if you are under the age of 18.

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TP > OoT = MM >>> SS > BotW > WW

I will not play TotK.

>mention of trans people on the OP
Gosh you are obsessed

>>736863476
>The positives that the OP mentions are mostly true, but issues like the pacing, forced sidequests, ridiculous Fi handholding, lifeless sky area, etc. are some of the issues I can think of off the top of my head.
See, I never genuinely understood how people can say this shit, then in the same breath say
>Ocarina of Time's best attribute is how impeccably paced it is
Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Ocarina had the SAME exact problems that you just mentioned here. What does pacing even mean here, that's just a retarded buzzword. The game has "forced" """"side""""quests too like the Hookshot and Ocarina songs, ridiculous Navi handholding and screeching, a lifeless field and many more. Like, genuinely what the fuck are you even talking about?

>>736856495
It will never be liked
It will never be good
It will always have the ugliest Link, the worst exploring, a linear world, a stupid plot, and gimmick controls

>>736864827
Yeah Twilight Princess is pretty bad

>>736864646
I'm not going to be able to explain to you what pacing is if you currently think it's a buzzword and can't recognize that it's OoT's main strength. I haven't played these games in a long time, but what I can tell you is that making content that in better Zelda games you can do as you wish, which are more enjoyable to experience in their own right while giving you optional but satisfying rewards, instead gating you before you can go forward as a clear attempt to pad the game is bad design. Skyward Sword is very linear, like a theme park ride, and it stops over and over again to force you to do stupid shit like those Silent Realm segments, Tadtones, fighting the Imprisoned boss multiple times, etc. which interrupt the flow of the game and might be kind of fun if you could just choose to do these things if you wish, but as I said, are put there to artificially lengthen the game. In a better game, the main quest would have more substantial content to take their place while having those things to do on the side and rewarding you for going out of your way for them instead of "rewarding" you by letting you get back to what you actually want to be doing.

Nintendo wanted to make the game more linear, most likely because their philosophy at that time was that there were a ton of casuals who would be playing their first Zelda game, but they weren't able to pull it off without these severe deficits in the experience.

>>736861228
As someone who's going through it properly now I can attest to this. The overrealiance on the same 3 areas alongside the sky feeling so barren just ruins the experience. When all you can do is go to specfic islands and find treasure it gets old after a while.

The dungeons also feel kinda half baked to the point where I wondered why a map was necessary. The puzzles are way too easy and the dungeons themselves feel short as well. Best thing about them is that you can save at certain points due to the statues.

Explorations been a big part of zelda regardless of the risks it took/takes so seeing the way its handled here feels lackluster.

>>736864646
One more thing: Even if I grant you that those things you mentioned could be considered problems with OoT's design, you lose credibility by pretending Skyward Sword's problems aren't 100x worse. You're seriously comparing Navi to Fi or that expansive and boring ass fucking sky that you have to flap your way through while being forced to do so much of that nonsense that I already mentioned would be optional and more ejoyable in better Zelda games to OoT's field? Give me a break. Further, even though OoT treats those things in a much better way that they don't cross the line into being genuine problems, I told you that you can look to MM for the best example of a world that feels like it's full of life and how to design sidequests that don't insultingly read as busy work from uninspired devs trying to figure out how to make a game that doesn't scare people off who hadn't played a video game before Wii Sports.

>>736864343
Based

>>736866986
It's just a bad faith shitposter.

Honestly I'm not sure if anyone really likes this game. Feels ironic

>>736865852
>I'm not going to be able to explain to you what pacing is if you currently think it's a buzzword and can't recognize that it's OoT's main strength
That's just a retarded cope. The real issue is that you just say "pacing" which is highly subjective and you don't clarify anything about it. What exactly IS pacing, what are the elements, and what makes good pacing vs bad pacing? If you just sit here and say "OoT has good pacing and SS has bad pacing," and I just go "SS actually has the good pacing and OoT has bad pacing," then who the fuck is even right here?

>Skyward Sword is very linear
THIS is really what your core problem is with the game that you're trying to get at. You're equating all of the stops/activities as "bad design" which doesn't make sense. "The game forced me to stop for tadtones so it's bad." But that doesn't even logically make any sense here. I could just say shit like "Playing the child dungeons in OoT is busy work and the real game is past the Master Sword" because ultimately it's a pointless activity in all but the narrative.

Like, legitimately, what even is the complaint here? "I don't have the option to NOT do the task so it feels pointless?" Why even play the game in the first place if your attitude is "I don't want to do the thing the game is telling me to do in the first place?" What are you even looking for in a game? What makes YOU like the game or not?

>>736867460
Just go take a nap and allow your subconscious mind to help you understand what I wrote, retard.

>>736856495
>collect XX of XX to continue on the path
It's shit. I'll collect a key. Not parts of a fucking key.

>>736867360
It's good. Not great, and definitely not the right fit for Zelda, but aside from the Imprisoned III fight it's good on its own terms, like a 7/10.

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The only truly bad Zelda games are the DS entries and Triforce Heroes (solo).

>>736867792
You could do worse than liking/defending it

>>736867579
You literally just wrote "thing bad thing bad thing bad because I say so."

>>736867828
Shit. I just moved into a new house and need to start thinking about how I'm going to display my own Zelda collection. Thinking about mounting some wall shelves.

>>736868338
If you want an essay explaining why Tadtones are not appropriate main quest content for a Zelda game, go watch Matthewmatosis or something. You're making comparisons between OoT and SS that anyone who understands the series better than you would laugh at, and I'm satisfied leaving it there.

>>736856495
Based

>>736868642
>If you want an essay explaining why Tadtones are not appropriate main quest content for a Zelda game
What I want is to understand your baseline for what even makes a Zelda game good while comparing it with a game that does have a lot of legitimate similarities that you are trying to brush past with "Well everyone just GETS what I'm saying so that means it's good." WHY are "Tadtones bad" but then you say OoT is great when you have shit like Dampe's race in it? WHY are the forced stealth sections of the Tear trials bad, but then forced stealth like Hyrule Palace and Gerudo Fortress in OoT excused or not brought up?

Why is THING BAD and what are you grounding that idea in?

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>>736868507
Shelves help but depending on how much you have, you'll always end up finding you're lacking space.

>>736868924
Because those things fucking suck dick a thousand time more than the things you mentioned, and I'd have to get into the minutiae of game design to explain it to you which is a bridge too far for me on this fine Sunday. I'm trying to figure out when I want to eat that fried chicken I have in my fridge.

The fact that you're making these comparisons at all and putting the burden on me to explain to you why it's absurd is much more than I'm willing to give you. I've already laid out my perspective well enough that people who genuinely want to understand can move forward and learn about it on their own. I'm sure many people have read our exchange who will benefit greatly from it. They will see how ridiculous I find your assertions, and when they go look at these things themselves they will see for themselves that I'm right.

>>736856495
>Garbage dungeons, except for 2 that are sort of decent but don't quite stick the landing
>Nice backgrounds, awful gremlinoid characters that combine the worst parts of TP and WW
>Came with the worst control method for SS that it didn't even bother to make full use of
>You start with 6 hearts, so yeah I guess it's the hardest game to do this with by definition, but damage is irrelevant when you will be taking constant random damage due to desyncs
>Massively overtutorialized. Textboxes all take 10 seconds to scroll if they're dialogue and they're unskippable.
>Is the Wii motion + poster child, but doesn't even use the pointer for anything and is incredibly shallow for a game released at the end of the console's life
>>736860425
The game already did full hearts of damage for basically everything, so by that logic compared to most prior Zeldas it was already a 3 or 1.5 heart game, doing double damage doesn't magically make it not start you off with 6 hearts.
That also doesn't change the fact that you generally don't take damage unless the game just doesn't register the right input.
>>736867460
>Like, legitimately, what even is the complaint here? "I don't have the option to NOT do the task so it feels pointless?"
Yeah kind of. The game fails at making you feel like you have any agency, because you're essentially not playing a Zelda game in-between dungeons, you're playing Mario Sunshine with a fixed level order.

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>>736867828
Tendies when you ask them to actually play one of those games in their collection.

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>Link's eyes flost in front of his face
WTF

>>736869252
Again, the only perspective you mentioned is "Thing" then you said "Thing bad" and now you're just throwing up your hands when challenged on "Thing wasn't bad in old game, why thing bad here?" with you going "UGH EVERYONE JUST GETS IT STOP QUESTIONING ME!"

Like, "Imprisoned fight 3 times bad?" Okay, so does that mean you dislike EVERY single Mega Man because you fight ALL the bosses multiple times when they are EXACTLY the same? Do you even care that the imprisoned battle is radically different in each iteration? You legit are incoherent.

>>736869416
>The game fails at making you feel like you have any agency, because you're essentially not playing a Zelda game in-between dungeons, you're playing Mario Sunshine with a fixed level order.
See this makes sense and is at-least grounded in something. So for you I have a question in general:
Do you ONLY like games that provide you with a sense of agency (even if it's just an illusion like most of the other Zelda games in general where you actually have a strict order to do things in), or do you dislike SS because you expected agency and found it lacking?

Does ANYONE really TYPE like THIS?

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this game sucked ass and I will not stand for this revisionism.

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FUCK

>>736868990
Yeah, I have to say the shelves look super nice. I was thinking about also maybe a glass case, cause I want to put each game on a little box pedestal and maybe like a museum tag or something to show it off. But those wall shelves look nice. Maybe If I made 3 that were equal length but a bit longer.

>>736869740
Yeah I do sometimes.

>>736869758
>>736869598
every game with troon link has been dogshit, including brawl

>introduced stamina which is the worst thing about modern zelda
nope. into the trash it goes

>>736868642
>Matthewmatosis
His videos are good but his Zelda videos are his best. I started watching them due to playing Twilight Princess and going " This is Deja Vu the game".

>>736869472
Times beaten (mainline):
LoZ - 3 times
AoL - 3 times
ALttP - 5 times
LA - 4 times
Oracles - 2 times each
OoT - 11 times
MM - 5 times
WW - 5 times
Four Swords - 2 times
MC - 2 times
TP - 3 times
PH - 1 time
ST - 1 time
SS - 3 times
ALBW - 8 times
BotW - 4 times
TotK - 2 times
EoW - 2 times

Yeah, I've played them.

>>736870391
>Yeah, I've played them.
No you fucking haven't. I can see the dust caked onto your Switch and 3DS in your photo.

>>736870707
The Switch and 3DS are at least 9 years old at this point. It's very possible that all the times played were early on and then the devices just left.
>But TotK and EoW were recent!
Yeah, okay, but I don't take my Switch out either. I just put the cart in the top and use the Pro Controller. Why would I touch it?

>>736869915
In Skyward Sword, it's mostly just a resource penalty for repeatedly doing things you shouldn't do that much anyway. In Breath of the Wild, you're climbing constantly and you'll frequently find that a wall just can't be climbed with the stamina you have right now. Unless you eat a shitload of food to make the stamina bar irrelevant, but that's a different problem.

>>736871176
Skyward Sword utilizes it better though. There are tons of puzzles where the Stamina wheel and the Stamina fruit pick-ups matter for solving the puzzle. Breath of the Wild just half-assedly uses it as a limiter but is trivially bypassed through cooking. Which is a shame because climbing in and of itself is used primarily as a method to trivially bypass tons of other challenges in general that would be better with climbing restricted like in the shrines.

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botw is the best game btw

is there a VR mod that makes the sword work 100% of the time with your movements?

>>736870391
>ALBW - 8 times
>BotW - 4 times
Sheesh, I beat ALBW twice and I feel that's too much, but beat BotW 3 times so

>>736862629
They are up there with TP

>>736871176
Stamina is the reason that Revali's Gale is one of the few abilities off the Great Plateau that's really worth a damn. There's other okay stuff, but Revali's Gale is actually good.

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>>736872092
arbiters grounds is still the GOAT

>>736870391
Only played the did ones a single time? Not surprised.

>>736872153
it was meant to be called Revalis Wind but it was understood people would make fart jokes

>>736872195
Medieval beyblade was done dirty though.

>>736871865
I think the problem is how the game handles inputs, even if you had 100% accuracy it wouldn't register.

>>736872326
How did they not utilize it to traverse something like a poison swamp or small patches of ice/lava? I don't get how they missed such an obvious application for the overworld when the dungeon straight up explores it.

>>736872195
The Top thing you rode around on was so cool, wish it was used more often...

>>736872326
>>736872456
Honestly this was one of the bigger issues with TWW/TP/SS, ESPECIALLY TP forward. You just straight up get gypped on the item usage. You can't use those fucking things anywhere.

>>736872195
Though it is cool and the boss fight is one of the best, still doesn't beat unlocking the second Clawshot and fighting Argorok, that was the best I've seen on any Zelda, loved when the concept returned on MP4B

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>>736872725
Argorok's boss fight kicked ass. But its a shame it was so easy

the schizo shitposting about zelda games is getting out of hand.

>>736869646
>Do you ONLY like games that provide you with a sense of agency (even if it's just an illusion like most of the other Zelda games in general where you actually have a strict order to do things in), or do you dislike SS because you expected agency and found it lacking?
I guess I would say that it's kind of both, since most games will give you some sense of agency and SS specifically keeps failing at providing you with any illusion of agency that would be required for its strict order of progression to work, so it just feels really contrived and forced.
This wouldn't be an issue with the comparison I went with (Mario Sunshine), because you expect those to just be levels where you complete some fantastic objective for a star, but you can also do those levels in a much more liberal order than the approach of Skyward Sword where you have a usually fixed cycle between the three levels, usually with a very similar set of themed challenges each time.
In a Mario Sunshine-esque level I wouldn't see much wrong with say needing to escort a haplessly stupid FLYING robot that decided to spawn at the beginning of the level and needed to be guided to a specific objective at the end, but in the context of a Zelda game that's just too needlessly contrived while also not even having the good grace be optional.

The rigidly linear story structure might've worked if it had been less contrived and gave more shits about the illusion of agency, and the contrived levels might've worked if it hadn't had a rigidly linear story structure that would've given agency that way, but both together just conflict too much.
As an example BotW does the same thing again, but "fixes" it by letting you tackle any of the 4 paths whenever you want and making the levels a bit less contrived, even if it kind of undermines itself by teaching you to expect more agency than it will actually give you in the story sections.
>>736871675
It just feels too contrived again.

>>736872686
SS made an effort. It gave you like 5 items but made sure all of them saw some use here and there. WW's actually pretty good with items, most of them have alternative applications in combat that are interesting.

TP's the one that draws the short stick, but even then its early game items still see some consistent use. Gale boomerang can break the golden bug quest very early on, bomb arrows are absolute shitwreckers, and the clawshot is the clawshot. Spinner, ball & chain, and dominion rod all get what they get, though at least b&c has a few creative, if completely unnecessary applications.

>>736872725
>>736872852
All of TP's boss fights are too easy. Blizzeta, Zant and Ganondorf are the only ones that feel like they halfway tried. Maybe Fyrus if you've literally never played a Zelda game before. Pretty much all of them are cool setpieces at least, especially Stallord.

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>>736856495
Obviously a troll post but I do think SS is a underrated masterpeice. Im old, I've played them all, I dumped a ton of hours replaying this one. It is too short, the fact you can't skip fi, music collection, and repetive sin fights are an abortion.
Still, best Zelda, my favourite setting, using the wii remote was dope, favourite Ganon fight, and this game just hits you right in the fucking feels.
The desert temples are a 6 hour exploration of Percey Shelleys best poem. The Buddhist grotto is top 5 temples ever. Underrated gem.

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>>736873234
I loved fyrus
>all the gorons are talking about this demonic entity they had to lock away in the mines
>face to face he looks like a demon out of hell
>literally rips his chains out of the ground while his whole body is encased in fire. You have to trip him with the same chains

kino, I dont care what /v/ says

>>736873040
How is ANY of that more contrived than racing Dampé or escaping the Gerudo Fortress?

>>736873040
>since most games will give you some sense of agency
But how do you feel in general about games that don't even do that? Like Mario, Mega Man, Classic Castlevania, arcade games, etc. There are actually tons of games that don't even put up the pretense of agency, but are still amazing.

>because you expect those to just be levels where you complete some fantastic objective for a star
Is it just a matter of "I expected there to be agency?" So lets say you've NEVER played a Zelda game or even heard about it. Would you still think it was lacking because of the agency, or would the expectations that you DIDN'T have paint that differently? Or would you still compare it to the general agency of other games you've experienced, in which cause I would ask "What if SS was your first game period?"

I also have to agree with the other anon. Your post after this point sort of devolves into "contrived contrived forced contrived." What exactly do you mean by "contrived" here? Can you provide examples of something you felt was NOT contrived and compare it to this?

>>736860379
I can only speak for myself but I think WW is grossly overrated so I will definitely be stealing that line going forward for the lulz.

>>736873539
WW is grossly overrated. It's an unfinished game that's hard carried by the vibes.

>>736873538
>I also have to agree with the other anon
I was being sarcastic. The fact that you want him to explain this to you is ridiculous. He just pointed out that that robot arbitrarily lands at the start of the level to give you an example. Now you'll ask me what's arbitrary about that. You ignore so much of what's already been told to you, I hope you're just pretending to be that stupid.

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>>736864343
MM>OoT>LA switch>aLttP>BotW>SS>Zelda>TP>Oracle>WW>Link>TotK

My uncle was raped by Shigeru Miyamoto and this is the ontologically correct order.

>>736873921
Oracles too low. Peak 2D Zelda.

>>736873895
>What's 2+2? AND YOU CAN'T SAY FOUR!
Asking why it IS arbitrary is the correct response. Because you could legitimately argue that an entire game is arbitrary to begin with, so anything you do in a virtual world is pointless. If that's the case, why even play video games?

WHAT makes it "arbitrary," what does that mean, and why is it bad? Or are you just going to keep sniping posts and bitching about how you want to just throw your incoherent babble out into the open without ever being challenged on it?

>>736874090
All of your argumentation relies on the hope that whoever reads it will have never played a Zelda game or possibly even a video game. Extremely bad faith.

>>736874074
Its weird, its the same game but I really liked one and was not a huge fan of the other. How was I supposed to know to go find a kangaroo. That was gay as fuck, waste of 30 minutes.

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>>736856495
>perfect artstyle
It's a mix of the worst parts of both previous Zelda games. Wind Waker's deformed proportions and clown noses combined with TP's more realistic textures. You get ugly duck faced abominations standing before the blurry, low res backgrounds thanks to the Wii being dogshit hardware.
>hardest game to 3-heart run
>game starts you with six fucking hearts
>cut back on the overtutorialized intro
>mandatory catch fetch quest
>mandatory sword tutorial
>having to sit through multiple cutscenes where everyone vomits exposition and repeatedly state what a good flyer Link is, all dolled up as a gay high school drama with love triangle bullshit ending with a mandatory story-tied parachute tutorial

>>736873362
>tfw I just watched a video of some guy that hates this dungeon the most out of any Zelda game
The room where you snipe Bulbin archers with the bow over bridges in a the flooded mineshaft was cool.

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>>736874513
if youre willing to be patient and fuck around, you can snipe them and make them run off the ledge into the lava

>>736874298
Isn't it the opposite? If I make an argument that actually SS is a fantastic game on it's own without any of the history or connotations of the series to possibly drag it down, isn't that the best possible faith you could put any game into?

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>>736856495
BTW, did the Switch version censor/change any dialog like what happened with TP HD?
I don't recall anything like that, but maybe because at that point English localization was more careful to avoid "sensitive" things.
Replayed TP and it's crazy how it had full-on fanservice with multiple females, three kinds of cleavage shown. So good.

>>736874706
>did they censor anything like with TPHD?
>not that TPHD censored anything but
????

>>736874579
Oh yes, I remember doing this a lot too with the Dragon Roost Cavern Boboklins in WW.

I bought the deluxe edition on release and it’s the only Zelda game I haven’t finished because I was bored to tears.

>>736874408
Nah, they're reasonably different but complimentary. Seasons is more combat heavy and in part born from a conceptual remake of Zelda 1, so it's a bit simpler. Ages leans much more into things like overworld fetch quests and raw puzzle designs in its dungeons. Separately, they're good, but when taken together as intended they create a greater whole.

>>736874706
I just cant get over that intro. Ive tried to replay this game 6 times over the decades as I remember enjoying it, but that atrocious never ending forced start just gets me every time.

>>736874851
But why were you bored? Why is being bored bad? If being bored was good, would you still call that bad?

>>736856495
>leading up to a seemingly scary boss fight
>tentacles coming out from the planks
>Celia from monsters inc comes out
SS was so disappointing at some points.

>>736874986
Don't forget Fi still tells you that the boss room key will open the boss room door right when you're at the door.

>>736874906
I did not play them until last year, a decade late which is not a recipe to enjoying a classic. I really loved the difficulty, especially when compared to TotK. Goron dancing and that fucking kangaroo though!!!

>>736874513
Goron Mines is an odd duck in that it's clearly a starter dungeon, but I would say it's a very effective one. It's less about puzzle solving and more about teaching the player to observe their surroundings and intuit the path forward, something the game builds further upon with City In The Sky. You mostly go from room to room using the iron boots' magnetic properties and looking for the correct thing to interact with, it's not at all an exploratory or puzzle-oriented dungeon. It's not one of TP's best but it serves its purpose better than an equivalent dungeon like, say, Dodongo's Cave does. Barring all that, there's lots of opportunities to snipe enemies with the bow and that never stops feeling great.

>>736875076
Why is thar bad? Do you hate when other games tell you things?

>>736874816
Poor reading comprehension. I said "dialog".
Like the first scene with Ilia talking about Epona in TP was "she's a girl so treat her like one" which they changed in TPHD.

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>>736875097
>using the iron boots' magnetic properties
walking on walls and the ceiling was so fucking cool. criminally underutilized

>>736874947
>>736875124
What are you doing?

>>736874906
Not him, but Ages and Seasons is honestly probably my least favorite of the series. Still excellent, but the overworld felt very tedious to work through because a lot of the puzzles (especially in Seasons) would reset themselves and only have one way through, so if you needed to wander around an area, you'd have to revisit the same exact 3-8 screens over and over and over and over...

Basically they needed more shortcuts.

>>736875202
If I couldn't read, would I be able to answer your question?

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>>736856495
>/v/ got so mindraped by BotW/TotK that they're pretending that Skyward Sword was good

Zelda cycle strikes again.

>>736875202
He got crippled by my argument with him, so he's sperging out on everyone because he doesn't understand how to think through his own positions and why he believes in them. So instead of just engaging in good faith and admitting he lost, he's irrationally taking it out on the thread. I'd apologize, but it's not my fault he's a mental midget.

>>736875335
The Zelda Cycle will continue on

>>736875335
SS was better than WW on release. BotW can go fuck itself, ALBW and EoW are better "modern" open-ended Zelda games.

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>>736875335
As someone who unironically thinks SS is the best Zelda game, I'm glad it's finally starting to kick in. Tired of the shitposters who hate it cause it didn't match the opinion their favorite e-celeb gave them.

>>736875354
I'm making a caricature of you for the amusement of anyone who has been following your nonsense radical skepticism and strawmanning. I told you much earlier, my intention stopped being to convince you, since that's impossible, but just to highlight for everyone else what a fool you are.

>>736875335
I would like BotW/TotK more if they didn't remove the Hookshot. I really wanted my cel-shaded Nintendo flavored Just Cause.

Imaging defending Skyward sword just because everyone righty trashed on release

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>>736869908
I love the interactionsthey put with the DS' mechanics like closing the screen and the like, though the game feels overall slow having to seafare at that speed

>>736875646
>SS was better than WW on release
Where are you getting that? People tend to have an "old good new bad" mentality with Zelda games where they don't care if it's fun or not, they just care when it came out. A game where the controls work is automatically better than Skyward Sword.

>>736875701
So you're intentionally shitting up the thread with bad faith strawman interpretations of me? And you're doing this because you lost the argument and understood that?

That's better...how?

>>736875654
You must really like Link's Awakening

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>>736875654
>+1 rank per player

>>736875654
>Phantom Hourglass in A-tier
What made you like it so much?

>>736875789
Maybe I should just ask you why that's bad over and over again as if I don't know and pretend I'm making an argument.

>>736875784
>Where are you getting that?
My personal experiences with the game? I've beaten WW twice and it was like a constant dull headache both times. I've beaten SS twice and at the very least some of its dungeons and gratitude crystal quests were enjoyable.

>A game where the controls work is automatically better than Skyward Sword.
SS's controls worked well enough when I played it.

>>736875801
Link's Awakening was the "My favorite Zelda when I was 12!" except replace 12 with like, 5-6. I think it was one of my first video games ever actually.

>>736875875
Unironically I think Temple of the Ocean King is the greatest dungeon ever made in all of video gaming, not just Zelda. I legit don't understand all the hate it gets. It's incredibly skill-based, has tons of exploration and paths, every time you enter into it you have new items which unlocks wildly new paths which are each interesting and provide different strategies to tackle it. There's even a really insanely fun challenge where you can get to the bottom floor at the end of a game with a full timer and it awards you a little trophy for doing it.

Also it's because I figured out how to master the touch screen controls. Instead of doing circles for a roll, flick the stick towards link a little bit then back to the edge and it does it perfectly every time.

>>736875896
See, that's exactly the problem we're having in our communications. You are making an assumption that I just inherently understand YOUR "bad". I don't think Tadtones are bad, so when you just say "Oh obvious Tadtones are bad" and then I just think "Actually I thought they were pretty fun and good," then where exactly does that leave us in the conversation? That's why we have to understand what the fuck it is we're talking about or we're just talking past each other. Especially when I point at things that are similar to it in the game of your choice and ask "it wasn't bad here, why not?" You can go "well it's different," but until I understand what it is that makes one bad and one not to you, we can't even begin to have the conversation.

If you want to have a good faith and sincere conversation where you can even get TO the part where you try and convince me, we have to understand these things first.

>>736871925
I was practicing speed running ALBW. It was the only Zelda game I ever attempted that with kek

>>736876228
Nigger, even if you explained why you think they're good, I can just ask you where you get that standard from, and do on ad nauseam. You are trying to call me out for not having an objective standard while you have the exact same problem, so I already told you I am confident that if anyone reading this goes and checks the claims you made by actually playing these games for themselves, they'll see how delusional you are. Why don't you justify for me how you can claim to have any knowledge at all or how you even know we're having this conversation, moron. I have no interest in convincing anyone besides those people I'm referring to, certainly not to go so far as you'd clearly want to take this. Is this a debate about epistemology? No. It's about whether or not racing Dampé is as unbelievably shitty as even the best garbage you'd pretend is the same in Skyward Sword. You lost when you equivocated on these things earlier, and I don't care about convincing anyone who can't see that at this point.

>>736875937
I wanted to check if you were actually talking about playing the games or about reception towards them. It was still more reasonable to think the former, but too often people decide how good a game is without playing it.
I have fun fighting enemies in WW and enjoy the dungeons. SS enemies are generally just about figuring out which Wii Remote waggle move they want and praying the game detects it. And dungeons feel like you're being led by the nose both by Fi and because the items are often just glorified keys to get to another room and not part of a puzzle to be solved.

>>736876053
I thought being able to draw on the map with the stylus was really handy. It's something I wished Wind Waker had.

>>736873921
Explain how TotK can be THAT much worse than BotW when it has:

Better Dungeon lead ups and dungeons (Aesthetically and atmospherically)
Actual caves
Better Enemy Variety
Better Sidequest
Better OST (music original to it is better overall)
Combat (there's no real reason to fight anything in BotW. Just raid Hyrule Castle every blood moon.)
Better Bosses
Better Ending sequence

That's not to say it does EVERYTHING better. It has worse UI for sure, the puzzles are on average weaker and the story is a bit worse. If anything they should be closely ranked. I don't understand how one can rank one very highly and the other super low.

>>736876865
Stop projecting. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean I can't either. It's actually easy to ground these things into a very common ground other than "it's bad", you just need to do it. I'm not even forcing you to go down to epistemology, I'm just asking you to have thought out your claim beyond "it's bad and everyone should just get what I mean when I say that." It's not hard.

Is the Switch remake any good? I own the Wii version and heard the Switch version has some improvements

>>736877281
Guy from >>736875654
Yeah, the Switch version is just a straight upgrade. Cuts down on how much Fi interrupts you (which honestly 90% of it was Fi asking for you to put in new batteries, so since the Switch doesn't do that, it reduces it a ton) as well as a few other things like being able to start Hero mode from the start. The only thing that's technically a negative compared to the Wii version is that the Wii sensor bar used to "cheat" a little bit and re-orient your controller every time you pointed at the screen. Since the Switch doesn't do that, you're going to quickly build up a habit of mashing the "resync" button. Other than that, the gyros still control really great and the game is gorgeous in HD. No reason to look at the Wii version anymore other than historical/nostalgia reasons.

>>736877209
Oh you're saying you'll make an appeal to consensus which is exactly what you were sharting yourself about me doing earlier. Frankly, I think you're a disingenuous faggot, so I try not to entertain people like you. I only engaged with you this long for the reason I mentioned in my last post.

>>736876919
WW's got a very feel good aesthetic and that does positively impact the feel of the combat, but structurally the game just annoys me. I don't like how on-rails the first half is and how it has a clearly rushed sequence in Greatfish Isle in the middle of it all, and then how kinda-sorta but not really open the second half is. Like sure, you can do Triforce quest shit if you know about it, and you can do the fire and ice islands however, but why can't you do Wind Temple before Earth Temple? Why half-ass it like that? And I don't particularly enjoy any of its dungeons front to back. Some have promise like Temple of the Gods or Wind Temple, but even those have shit like the first floor water shifting or Makar in general that drag them down for me. WW just constantly gets on my nerves in spite of its good aesthetics.

SS, on the other hand, at least chooses a direction and sticks with it. Might not be the best one but for all its misgivings I'll take its high points over WW. Pretty much the entirety of the Lanayru region with its timeshift stone mechanic was delightful IMO, and I'd still take the likes of Lanayru Mining Facility, Ancient Cistern, Sandship and even Sky Keep over any given dungeon in WW. I also really liked the Ghirahim fights in general. It's a game of ups and downs for sure - God knows the Eldin region made no notable impressions on me, Imprisoned III is possibly the worst thing in a 3D Zelda ever, and Fi in general in the pain in the ass - but enjoyment was less fleeting than with WW overall.

>>736877615
>Oh you're saying you'll make an appeal to consensus
Nobody said that.

>>736877721
What the fuck is "common ground" then, moron, and how does that justify anything? I'm going to go eat my chicken.

>>736877674
nta but my issue with ss is that the game goes
>go to these 3 areas
>do X
>oh shit, it didn't work
>Imprisoned
and then repeats that exact same structure again

>>736877809
Common ground understanding between you and I. What else does it need to be? I told you we're not needing to go as deep as epistemology, you just need to justify what the fuck "bad" is to you beyond "it's bad because everyone psychically knows what I mean when I say 'bad.' "

>>736877848
I liked fighting the imprisoned tho

>>736856495
The thing I like most about Skyward Sword is the athleticism. It led to the fun movement of Breath of the Wild.

>>736877848
That's understandable. SS is no saint, it gets on my nerves sometimes. But WW gets on my nerves all the time. The first 20 minutes and the last 20 minutes are good, but 90% of everything inbetween is obnoxious.

Why does this entire thread feel like this two people talking.

>>736878791
It's more like 4 or 5.

>>736856495
>objectively the best dungeons in the franchise
That's not A Link Between Worlds.

>>736878416
Likewise. It's an interesting design with high stakes tension, and the fight is different every time. Legit didn't get all the complaints about it.

>>736877674
Probably it comes down to a matter of opinion. I have similar misgivings like WW's Triforce pieces and liked the SS time travel thing. Still, WW is fun most of the time and SS usually annoys me.

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>>736877184
>Actual caves
That is what killed it for me. I know its a well done game but in BotW I tried to do everything. I did not completionist it but I tried. TotK I did that and just got so burnt out. Its even worse as I had 200 seeds and no idea where that tree fuck was. Why wouldnt he go to someplace obscure and just sit there.
Im ranting though. To put a tight argument. Its too big with too much AI slop barren spots. The caves hurt it so much more than helped, and Im talking about the ones above the earth, below ground was 10x worse.
Too many thoughtless temples. They were just getting so ridiculously low IQ at the end.
Its was the first Zelda I never wanted to beat and I dropped.
BotW was this weird 200 hour 7/10 zen experience that never got good, never got bad. I also didnt get bored till 20 min from the end.
TotK had heights but also some bad lows and I got tired of it.
I do agree its the perfect kids game but it was very much designed for children and 87 IQ Brazilians/Indians (Real national averages) and was quantity 100x over quality.
My advice to anyone would be to just skip the caves snd not play it methodically. Its too big. Just do what looks intresting and I may have hate a completely different experience.

>>736879361
WW has so much soul, but I just cant comprehend how you had fun? Combat is the easiest in the series by a large margin, same with the puzzles.
It was the first Zelda I had my nieces play as its 100% designed for 8yrolds.

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Anon that is watching (I WAS playing but my 3DS is gone so I have to finish this by watching) Phantom Hourglass here. Did I miss a lot by starting it before doing Wind Waker? I mean the game gives you a synopsis in the start but I’ve been wondering if I missed references and the like.
I also explored all the 4 maps but I never found Zelda’s crew. Is this really the extent of the world or just a sea in the vast ocean?

I couldn't finish this game. I got so bored of how railroaded everything felt and the incessant nagging just compelled me to quit and never look back.

>>736880262
>too much AI slop barren spots.
what a non-argument. good job discrediting ANYTHING you say when you make a statement like that.
>The caves hurt it so much more than helped
you're literally insane.
>Too many thoughtless temples. They were just getting so ridiculously low IQ at the end.
you cant even use the word "shrine" correctly. they only way they are "thoughtless" is if you cheesed it with a rocket shield or something.
>200 hours in botw
>man, why is totk just not gripping me as much?
you burnt out on the map the first time. whats crazy is how you try and claim like the new additions that make reexploring worth it are somehow bad. were just going through them like a checklist?
>My advice to anyone would be to just skip the caves snd not play it methodically. Its too big. Just do what looks intresting
checklist fags dont get to have an argument. you should just be doing whats fun at all times.

>>736856495
>>cut back on the overtutorialized intro
Excuse me? The whole game is 1 big tutorial.

>>736859563
>Dogshit music
I hate that I have to agree with this. I was that loser kid in school whose iPod was filled with video game soundtracks instead of niggerrap, and I was so excited for an actual orchestrated Zelda soundtrack but nothing about Skyward Sword excited me. And since it's only been BotW and TotK since then, it's been 20 fucking years since we got a decent soundtrack in Twilight Princess.

>>736880936
Im sorry no woman will fuck you so now you put your identity into a shitty nu-Zelda all the OGs rag on. That must be very tough for you, lol.
Its a shit game, everyone knows its a shit game, if you didnt have a shitty autistic tendie personality you'd see it too.
Enjoy your 87 IQ game and dying a virgin, kek!

>>736880936
>were just going through them like a checklist?
we need to rangeban india

>>736881482
>say something stupid
>get corrected
>THE GAME IS YOUR WHOLE IDENTITY!
>REEEEEEEEE
lmao if you projected any harder your name would be imax.

>>736881602
>a single word missing
>INDIA INDIA INDIA
you have brainrot. consider making physical contact with poaceae.

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>>736856495
>came with a sick gold wiimote
>cut back on the overtutorialized intro after shit waker and tpee made people want to kill themselves out of boredom
That means you're playing the HD version, and the HD version doesn't have the gold wiimote. Still, great game. Dungeons are slept on by most people. Huge step up from Twilight Princess, which were good but too formulaic.

>>736881604
Except you are a poor phone posting virgin with terrible social skills. You know that, I know that, but ok... Kek!

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>Ctrl+F Groose
>0 results
/v/ is dead

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>>736881881
I have a buddy who looks just like him. Married a fat bitch too, makes no sence.

>>736881872
lashing out with personal attacks because somebody called you out on your shitty opinions and deficient mental faculties is pretty sad man. get help. you couldnt identify a phone poster if you tried.

>>736881687
this dumb poo is zesty

>>736881995
>you're literally insane.
Poor, virgin, autistic, and retarded. Ouch! Ok I get why you have nothing else but a shit game.

>>736881881
shut the fuck up, tranny. nobody gives a shit about that faggot.

>>736856495
Skyward Sword did indeed have great dungeons. Also some cool items. Fi popped up way too much but they pared that back some in the remaster. Breath of the Wild I don't even consider a Zelda game.

3D:
Twilight Princess > Ocarina of Time > Skyward Sword > Majora's Mask > Wind Waker

>>736882348
Yea, its pretty clear your uncle was never raped and it shows. MM deserves better.

>>736882348
>Breath of the Wild I don't even consider a Zelda game.
>never mind all of the other zelda games that are wildly different

>>736880721
Honestly, not too much. You are missing some things, but they are really small, and most of the design by this stage is taking more from Four Swords and Minish Cap than it is proper Wind Waker.

>>736880262
TotK was so shitty, too bad the franchise sold out.

samefagging, lmao

>>736877184
>Better Dungeon lead ups and dungeons
I actually think they're worse. There's nothing as good as Hyrule Castle, the bosses are worse (other than GDorf himself), and we still have the gay terminal shit without the puzzle box dungeon design.

>>736884485
Bro
Recycled Map and Lack of Discovery: Since it uses the same Hyrule as its predecessor, the "magic" of discovering new locations is gone for returning players.
Trivialized Traversal: Powers like "Ascend," towers that launch you into the sky, and flying vehicles make the landscape's obstacles (mountains, rivers, canyons) feel irrelevant.
Diluted Atmosphere: BotW’s celebrated feeling of lonely, melancholy isolation was replaced by a more "lively" world with many NPCs and constant activity, which some feel lacks the same emotional weight.
Clunky Menu Navigation: The game requires you to constantly pause and sort through hundreds of items to fuse arrows or weapons, which many find much more tedious than BotW's streamlined combat flow.
Underwhelming Sky and Depths: Despite high expectations, players often find the Sky Islands sparse and the Depths repetitive, with both areas feeling underdeveloped compared to the main surface.
Repetitive Cutscenes: Completing major temples rewards players with nearly identical cutscenes about the "Imprisoning War," making progress feel formulaic and less personal than the memories in the first game.
Poor Story Continuity: The game largely ignores the previous game's technology (Sheikah Slate, Divine Beasts, Guardians) without a satisfying explanation, making it feel disconnected as a sequel.
Ugly Weapon Aesthetics: Many players dislike the look of "fused" weapons (like a rock glued to a sword) compared to the sleek, handcrafted weapon designs of BotW.
Inferior Companion Abilities: The new Sage avatars are often criticized for being clunky to activate mid-combat and frequently getting in the way, unlike the passive "Champion" buffs in the first game.
Non-Linear Story Spoilers: Because the "Dragon Tears" (main story cutscenes) can be found in any order, it is very easy to accidentally spoil major plot twists early on.

>>736883172
Yes. There's a clear lineage between those games. Botw was a game that specifically treated the rest of the series as a shackle to be rid of
>but muh zelda 1
Be honest with yourself. The reason they fell for the open world meme is because SS got mogged in 2011. Everyone was playing Skyrim instead, the reviewers liked it more, the general audience liked it more, it sold way more (this isn't a comparison of quality, this is just how it was at the time), even in Japan Skyrim ended up being a better received game, on their own home turf. Zelda no longer had the fantasy crown, it was washed. Botw wasn't some noble return to form, it was chasing mass market trends.

>>736884951
>I'm wrong but won't admit it
cool

>>736884951
>The reason they fell for the open world meme is because SS got mogged in 2011. Everyone was playing Skyrim instead, the reviewers liked it more, the general audience liked it more, it sold way more (this isn't a comparison of quality, this is just how it was at the time)
Not him, but you're like 80% right on this point. The other 20% is that Aonuma got curious about Skyrim at that time and tried playing it himself and was blown away by the freedom. It was less the blowback and more about Aonuma getting absolutely flavor of the month'd so hard that it changed his DNA as a Japanoman.

>>736884860
No I agree, TotK felt like a huge step down from BotW despite the content bloat. And it fixed none of my problems with BotW itself.

>>736884951
4 of the first 5 zelda games are completely different from each other. you have no argument.

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>>736867828
>Wii version of TP

>>736884951
>Yes. There's a clear lineage between those games.
Zelda 1 to Zelda 2 are completely different. You're wrong. Zelda has always changed up how they play when they feel the current formula has gotten stale

>>736884951
This makes sence, and BotW was even good. It's just a shame they made TotK so brown coded and were rewarded financially for it.

>>736885214
>>736885307
And yet there's still a shared lineage between those games. Just like Zelda 1, Zelda 2 still has dungeons, it still has items you get in those dungeons that let you explore more of the world and find more dungeons, and so on. It may be a sidescroller but it still has that Zelda DNA, that very DNA that Botw threw away.

It was Zelda for all the nin-toddlers and nin-tenyearolds who came out the womb and got handed a wiimote
Its not a bad game but its devoid of soul and atmosphere.

>Games just shouldn't be allowed to experiment or change anything because...I SAID SO!
I'm so fucking glad you idiots on /v/ are too retarded to be game designers even with slop AI doing 99 percent of the work for you.

>>736875335
>>/v/ got so mindraped by BotW/TotK that they're pretending that Skyward Sword was good
You didn't even read the op lol

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>>736885509
>the dungeons!
>the dungeons gave you items!
>you use those items to access the next dungeon!
imagine seething this hard about lock and key shit. its like losing your shit and complaining that ww isnt a real zelda game because it has sailing, or tp isnt a real zelda game because of the wolf parts. take your meds, retard.

>>736885509
It actually doesn't have Zelda DNA. Zelda II has Dragon Quest DNA. Miyamoto went from saying "I don't want magic in Zelda 1 because magic is a shortcut!" to putting it into Zelda 2 because it was in Dragon Quest and he wanted to capitalize on it as fast as possible.

>>736885742
>these zelda games have nothing in common with each other
>here's what these zelda games have in common with each other
>SEETHE SEETHE SEETHE
grow a brain

>>736875654
>LTTP and between worlds
>C tier
This better be bait, no way a retard which actually thinks that can operate a PC.

>>736885776
>It actually doesn't have Zelda DNA. Zelda II has Dragon Quest DNA
Why is this either/or to you? There's obvious dragon quest influence in Zelda 2, but it's still based on Zelda 1, just in a new format, like going from alttp to oot.

>>736885273
That's the version most people bought back in 2006-2007.

>>736885793
i never said that they have "nothing" in common. they are factually WILDLY different form each other. but you're going to grasp at straws in disingenuous desperation. you want to claim like this minor aspect is the "core" that makes botw "not a zelda game". its laughably pathetic. do you get paid to shitpost this hard, or are you just THAT retarded and hyper-autistic?

>>736881881
Gaston if he Legend of Zelda

>>736885902
Because I've read enough interviews to understand that Miyamoto had absolutely 0 care or intention for anything to do with story or narrative. To him, those elements were merely the excuse for the gameplay to happen and the delivery mechanism to explain the game to you, nothing more. Fuck, his original intention with Zelda 1 was to have Mario be the main character and he wanted to use Mario in every single game until roughly mid-way through production.

Zelda 2 has Zelda 1 DNA in it in the same way that a tranny has girl DNA inside of him. The dressings are there, but the spirit and body are wildly different.

>>736884951
You can really feel the Elder Scrolls influence with how the enemies become stronger based on your invisible "level".

>>736886062
>Miyamoto had absolutely 0 care or intention for anything to do with story or narrative
facts. nintendo doesnt give a fuck about the "timeline". they literally treat it as an afterthought.

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I find it weird that breath of the wild sold 20mil copies, the most out of any zelda game ever. Strange even. Was this cause of the pandemic unleashed a horde of zelda and ex zelda fans to buy the game or something? Zelda was always popular in video game culture and stuff with all the tattoos and retarded shit but it never got that popular before. Literally made a ripple effect through out nintendo that made their games worse cause now they all have to be open world. The fucking new kirby game is gonna be open world.

>>736886330
It's the Twilight Princess effect, except the Switch's popularity didn't fizzle out like Wii's did. On the contrary, pretty much every Nintendo IP sold record or near record numbers simply for existing on Switch.

>>736886440
Oh, and BotW's closer to like 35mil at this point. Dead serious.

>>736886330
>I find it weird that breath of the wild sold 20mil copies, the most out of any zelda game ever. Strange even
Stopped reading there, it's very obvious why. It's the same answer to why Witcher 3 and Elden Ring sold 20 million+ copies when their previous games didn't.

>>736886330
I think vidya is just so boom and bust. GTAV and Skyrim brought me back after being a normie with a sex life for a decade prior. Games were at there peak, everyone was buying systems, especially women for the first time, and there was little competition for studios who could drop 100m.

>>736886330
The Switch just sold so well that anything on it immediately becomes the best selling game in the series. If any other Zelda was made for it, it would've sold 20 million too.

>>736885742
The next Zelda could be a space shooter with absolutely nothing resembling anything from any other Zelda game, and you'd still defend it because the name on the box matters much more to you than the game itself.

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>>736887070
Its true, but most things tripled. BotW 7x

>>736887610
BotW was also the launch title so it had no competition.

>>736887528
>could be
At this point we will wait 7 years for the Exact same map but this time they will add either space, and/or under water levels. Shit will be so CASH cuz!

>>736887713
It's reductionist to say it was the switch and nothing else. Those games have reasons why they sold well. There's a reason Fire Emblem Three Houses sold so well and Engage didn't for example, and for that reason I'm willing to bet Fortunes Weave will sell a lot better than engage. For the same reason if Skyward Sword was the launch title it would have not sold close to what botw did.

>>736887713
Bizarre to me how impactful that is. The one that just bangles me is how such a painfully mid game like Horizon was the PS4s best seller with close to 40m sales. Console title or not.

>>736887796
You're right, there are many different elements going into
>WiiU sold like trash so most people, who haven't bought a console since the Wii are open to buying a console and its launch game
>BotW's only competition on the Switch for more than a year was Mario Kart, which attracted a completely different crowd
>It had been 6 years since a 3D Zelda
>It had been 9 years since a well received 3D Zelda (I liked SS though).
>Coof game a long and gave the Switch and its game a huge boost in sales.
But to say its sales all come down the merit of the game are just as reductionist.

>>736888137
I'm not saying it's down to merit. Botw's draw was its open world, that's the biggest reason why it did so much better than what came before. Open worlds are just a straight buff, consumers love them and reviewers love them.

>>736856495
Replayed it last year and it was better than I remember. If it wasn't for the crappy overworld and all the backtracking near the end it would be a genuinely great zelda.

>>736888626
It's not just the open world though. If that was true DD2 wouldn't have boomed and Crimson Desert would be doing better than, I dunno, 5 million sales. It's part of it but not all.

>>736889141
There's a reason I said it's a buff. A dogshit open world is still a dogshit game. But if you look at something like elden ring it's a very similar game to dark souls 3, it's just open world now (and has a jump button), and that alone took it from a pretty good game to potentially the greatest game of all time for some people.

Kind of unrelated but does anyone have an issue the TV doesn't seem to recognize the Switch in the dock? I keep turning off and on again, the only pattern that seems to work is that it recognizes if the controllers are on the switch at which point I remove the controllers and it keeps working. Technically a solution but a hassle to do that every time you know

>>736856495
>objectively the best dungeons in the franchise
one good dungeon
>perfect artstyle - not hideous low poly dogshit like the n64 games, transcoded chibishit like troon link in ww and the ds slop, or ugly, brown grimdark bloom piss filtered filth like twilight princess
has a jewish art style
>came with a sick gold wiimote
not bundled with all versions, a lot of Zelda releases had gold colored accessories
>hardest game to 3-heart run (only way to play this series)
master quest is the hardest
>cut back on the overtutorialized intro after shit waker and tpee made people want to kill themselves out of boredom
game is constantly a tutorial with wiimotion+ gimmicks, you back track to the same locations multiple times, you might be low iq if you don't see the tutorial there
>filters fat fucks who can't raise their forearm
fat fucks raise their firearms everytime to stuff their face, these controls filter limp wristed skeletons

Skyward sword killed traditional Zelda. I will never forgive it for that.

>>736860425
You still start with 6 when other hero modes have double damage and start with 3. Cope

>>736889604
You're thinking of Twilight Princess. Skyward Sword was simple attempt one at fixing a formula (that frankly didn't need fixing, just needed proper execution which hadn't been done under Aonuma).

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Skyward Sword was one of my favorite games if only for the immersion of wielding that sword with the Wii Motion Plus. Loved that.
Kind of sucks because it's also got some of the sections I hated the most like the Spirit Beads segments. Fuck that.

>>736884485
How is Colgera worse than copy pasted Wind Blight?

>>736890217
The Blight Ganons are mechanically quite good, just aesthetically boring. Wind is by far the weakest but not awful. Colgera is basically just a flying dragon fight except even easier since you sky dive between the rings. Reminds a lot of Argorok actually, in that its a aesthetically interesting but mechanically boring and easy fight.

>>736864343
>the worst 3d zelda is actually the best
cool opinion, now face the wall

>>736890217
Forgot to add

Queen Gohma > Thunder Blight
Marbled Gohma > Fire Blight
Muctorock > Water Blight
Master Kohga boss in TotK > Master Kohga in BotW

On the dungeons point, the puzzle box positive is offset by how similar they look, there underwhelming music and the lack of atmosphere. TotK beats them on all those fronts not to mention the lead ups are far better. Are you sure you played the game?

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>>736890396
Zelda peaked at Snowpeak Ruins though.

>>736890385
Then we have to disagree aesthetics are extremely important to me. Hence why I put say, OoT bosses over BotW bosses too. Bongo Bongo is probably easier than the Blights but at least he looks different. The fact they all look the same hurts them badly.

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>>736858641

I find it funny how not too long ago people were shitting on BotW for being boring and empty. Now in recent years it's suddenly a good thing. What in another 6 years will TotK's bloat suddenly be considered good?

>>736890434
While I think aesthetics, music and atmosphere are important, they don't trump mechanics. BotW's Beasts aren't great, but they are mechanically much more interesting than TotK Temples, plus Hyrule Castle is geniunely great.
>Muctorock > Water Blight
Fucking hell really?

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>>736890557
I mean Bongo Bongo is peak. It has a unique design, good attack variety, and its not quite as simple as "use dungeon item on weak point".

>>736890676
>Now in recent years it's suddenly a good thing
It was never a good thing. Zelda 1 accomplishes more of worth in 8 hours than BotW does in 80.

>>736885579
This is what BOTW fans say when they complain about old Zelda games experimenting tho.

>>736890816
>tell Navi to go fuck herself and go to Gerudo Desert after getting the longshot instead of Kakariko
>do the training grounds and get the ice arrows
>go through Shadow Temple at some point in the future
>this guy is weak to ice arrows
ALttP levels of kino.

reminder
a TOTK sequel with a WW flooded world where you have to build and maintain your boat with the Ultrahand would be the best Zelda

>>736890852
If it's not a good thing then why are we seeing people praising BotW's intentional emptiness being good thing so much more recently? I remember online most were talking about how much of a tech demo BotW was, the "see that mountain, there's nothing on it", wide as ocean deep as puddle, etc etc. You hardly hear that anymore. Did everyone just shift to Tears and will those comments about bloat and tedium be praised in another 5 years?

>>736880519
The combat was interesting because you had a good variety of moves including reactions to specific enemies, and the dungeons were fun because every room had a different challenge. It was often very easy, but I expect Zelda games tl to be pretty easy.

>>736890816
>its not quite as simple as "use dungeon item on weak point
He still pretty much is because he has an "intended" weakness. But I liked how he doesn't really fall into that trap as you can fight in different ways like abusing Ice Arrows of stunning locking him with with: https://youtu.be/lfoyQTWucCs?si=yomCuien3hAeGC05:

>>736891102
Because normalfags have a voice on the internet too.

I thought BOTW and TOTK were pretty fun and I think it's kinda weird how people want to act like they personally killed videogames but also refuse to speak in-depth about why so. Are they radically different than other Zelda games? Yeah, I can totally understand why a big Zelda fan might dislike them. But they're not below, say, Red Dead 2, Skyrim or other mind-numbingly banal open world games.

>>736890852
I don't see how BotW is empty. They designed the areas so each of the different biomes would have distinct gameplay characteristics.

>>736891102
>If it's not a good thing then why are we seeing people praising BotW's intentional emptiness being good thing so much more recently? I
Why should anyone care what normalfags think?

>>736890710
I will give you Hyrule Castle for sure. And yeah, I like Mucktorok more than Water Blight whom I just shot arrows at his eye and slaughtered him with the Master Sword kek. But I will say I also fought him second to last compared to Muck who I fought first.

>>736891186
There's nothing to do but fight trash mobs and do baby tier puzzles that are on par with the weakest puzzles from previous zelda games. Only you have to walk 5 minutes between each one.

>>736891225
because their shit taste determines what the market will bear

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>>736856495
>ruined Master Sword lore
>ruined Goddesses Lore
>ruined every puzzle instantly upon walking into a room
>ruined straight forward combat with shitty waggle "fencing" that involves waiting for the enemy to lower their guard or else they just block every hit no matter how you swing

>>736891276
And there's plenty tons to do and interact with though, and a region like Farron doesn't play the same as Death Mountain, neither of which play like Hebra Mountains.

>>736891186
There's really only easy Korok Seed puzzles and Shrines (or varying quality)to find. If you really want weapons just raid Hyrule Castle and you never really have to fight anything in the over world. Most of the time the chest in enemy camps aren't worth it beyond intrinsic motivation.

>>736891115
Well Zelda bosses are based around the principle of attack a weakspot to trigger a stun, then beat the shit out of them with your sword. But Bongo Bongo offers some variety because his hands and eye weakspots are vulnerable to Sword, Arrow, and Longshot + the unique interaction with Ice Arrows. So the player gets a few choices in how the reach that vulnerable state. It follows the standard boss formula but still gives players some agency, which I think is the right balance for these games.

>>736891228
I fought him first the first time I played. It was noticeable that apart from the age old arrow to the eye he was weak to flurry rush, parries, and using cryonsis. If you fight him first he has enough health to draw the fight out and let you discover these things. And its that optionality that I think makes for a good design.

>>736891186
BOTW and TOTK are empty the way a Jackson Pollock painting is
it's all the same simple shit over and over again

>>736891481
>there's plenty to do and interact with
The world is so big that they have to constantly recycle content, while most of the world has nothing in it.

>>736891186
That's interesting in the sense of it being a glorified hiking simulator, and while it's cool that they accomplished that sort of thing at the level of polish they did you REALLY have to be enamored with that sort of thing as it's probably gonna be around 70% of the playtime.

>>736856495
>hardest game to 3-heart run
yeah, cause you start with 6 hearts dumbfuck

>>736891682
>requires mods just to even attempt it
Where's the lie?

>>736886330
The other replies were strongly hinting at it. The best way to be massively successful is:
1. Be new and seem unique (Switch is a brand new console paradigm, and Zelda is open world. These both weren't even actually unique, but they SEEMED unique because the public thought the Wii U was an upgrade, and most people couldn't stand the thought of playing Zelda 1 let alone actually try it and understand it).

2. Be flashy (Zelda BotW looked pretty and had a lot of showy/gimmicky effects)

3. Be "good" or give the people what they want (The Western Audience Zeitgeist since the inception of D&D has always been heavily focused around player agency. That's why a lot of westerners tend to hate JRPGs in general; They hate being told what to do. So just being allowed to roam around with no restrictions was enough).

That's it. That's the secret of success.

>>736891276
these are the people that champion n64 shit, lmao.

>>736856495
No, I'm not going to let someone Zelda cycle the worst fucking 3D Zelda ever made. I don't even really enjoy the open world crap they put out the last two go around, but BotW/Nuts and Bolts are still better than that garbage.

>>736893837
OOT dungeons objectively reach much higher peaks of difficulty and interest than nuzelda's 100 "rotate the physics item to get 0.25 hearts and an amber stone, again" shrines

>>736891186
Each of those biomes is fucking gigantic so within one you're just walking forever.

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>>736894104
>higher peaks of difficulty and interest

>>736894216
>overwatch reaction image
lol

>>736894182
This. My heart actually sank a bit when they compared BotW's world size to TP's. Personally, I don't want an overworld bigger than TP's. When you can fill that shit with consistently strong content then maybe we can talk.

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>>736894242
sorry, should i keep it nintendo?

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>>736894242
>>736894607

>>736894216
Some molehills are higher than others.

>>736887824
>Horizon was the PS4s best seller with close to 40m sales
It was that much? I had no clue.

>>736889596
>has a jewish art style
So, you didn't like it?

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SS is a fun game, I think the combat is better than most Zelda which isn’t saying much but it’s a nice change from every other Zelda. Good dungeons too, but the overworld sucks (especially going back to the Thunderhead constantly - fucking terrible!). Sadly I think comparing Zelda games is kinda moot because they’re all brain dead games made for children (at least when it comes to anything OoT and onward), so most of my enjoyment comes from their atmosphere and the occasional times their puzzles get to me. Like yeah it’s cool and all that Twilight Princess looks like a zack snyder fan’s ideal Zelda and gives me lots of sword moves but it’s killed by how the story and combat also have the depth of a Zack Snyder Zelda game. It’s like this for basically every game.

>>736890385
>Sheikah Slate abilities are useful in defeating each of the Blight Ganons except for Windblight
That was one part I liked.

>>736890710
>that spinning crystal switch puzzle in the Water Temple that you can easily cheese with bullet time arrows
I beat that temple in like 5 minutes.

>>736891371
You can tell it's a Monolith Soft game because they turned the Master Sword into a waifu.

>>736884951
fuck bethesda cultists LMAO

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>>736897003
It wasn't bethesda cultists, it was just your average normalfag. Even in Japan Skyrim was getting more attention than Skyward Sword.

>>736889397
Your power cord plugged into the dock and working? I found out the hard way when I bought a third-party periphial that was supposed to just stick into the Switch and directly to the TV (for when I brought it over to someone else's place) that this shit does not "dock" at all unless it has power too.

>>736897159
>both dark souls and botw era zelda exist because of elder scrolls
How does Todd do it?

>>736897347
>How does Todd do it?
How does he ruin everything even indirectly linked to him? He must have a twisted Midas touch.

>>736857056
This. The dungeons are fun and the bosses are well and fine, but getting around is the most fucking grueling process, clearly limited by the tech at the time.

>>736873378
You don't load into a level select to do either of those things and they're not transparently just excuses to reuse the Faron Woods or Eldin Volcano maps again.

>>736856495
Kill yourself