Which has a higher skill ceiling, shmups or rhythm games?
>>736929752Shmups. Both can be memorized/routed but shmups have higher input requirements.
>>736929752Rhythm. Rote memorization takes you much farther in shmups. You don't really need physical stamina in shmups either.
I think rhythm games are largely something that you just automatically get better at by playing, but getting really good at shmups requires a lot more theory and understanding and game-specific training so I would say shmups do
In shmups you can usually spam bombs or brute force difficult parts even in a 1CC. You'll never beat a difficult song in a rhythm game by going wild on the controller or not training to overcome the hard parts.
>>736930616>You'll never beat a difficult song in a rhythm game by going wild on the controllerDepends on the game. I remember getting through insanely hard songs in Stepmania by spamming keys when I was in my teens.
>>736930771I wonder, what's the most difficult shmup?Most difficult rhythm game?
>>736929752Rhythm games>>736930001>>736930394Are you for real?
>>736929752Shmythm gups
>>736931137You jest but a rhythm shoot em up would be awesome.
>>736930820Most difficult shmup is probably either a CAVE bullet hell (Ketsui Ura loop?) or Yagawa game with a rank system (Ibara?). Most difficult rhythm game is probably any game with community maps that allow for absolute bullshit like Osu. >>736930919Yes. If you look up videos for both shmups and rhythm games you'll easily find max/perfect score plays of rhythm games yet not a single perfect score play of a shmup (unless it's tool assisted).OP asked which has the highest skill ceiling not which is generally harder.
Trick question memory games involve no skill and are just repetition for autismos
>>736931230Please don't use Kenshiro to shitpost, thanks.
>>736931259if posting facts in the thread is a shitpost its just a bad thread
>>736930616>>736930256That's skill floor not ceiling
>>736930919Second post hereCan you explain what specifically I said is so outlandish to you
>>736931348The problem with that is your post isn't factual.
>>736931190Not quite the same but there is Soundodge which is a music based bullet hell
>>736931219>Most difficult shmup is probably either a CAVE bullet hell (Ketsui Ura loop?) or Yagawa game with a rank system (Ibara?). >Most difficult rhythm game is probably any game with community maps that allow for absolute bullshit like Osu.I mean, by this logic we can also include impossible custom bulletml nonsnse and the argument falls apart
>>736932276I wasn't really making an argument as much as offering potential answers to the questions. That said, I agree with you that we could theoretically make custom maps/bulletml that are literally impossible for a human being to complete at which point the skill ceiling argument doesn't matter because both are high enough that no human could accomplish.
>>736929752Shmups can have randomness and introduces much more on the fly skills and reflexes. A rhythm game chart isn't going to change.
>>736932635>at which point the skill ceiling argument doesn't matter because both are high enough that no human could accomplish.Then why did you mention custom charts in the first place?Also I can't believe you used Osu of all things. OSU is the Touhou of rhythm games.
>>736932276>I mean, by this logic we can also include impossible custom bulletml nonsnse and the argument falls apartNo, osu! has curated bullshit that is not impossible. There are four pages of requirements and you need to suck a beatmap nominator's dick to get a map ranked.
>>736932756>OSU is the Touhou of rhythm games.Elaborate. Oh, you can't because you have neither played osu! nor Touhou.
>>736932756>Then why did you mention custom charts in the first place?Because that was the first thing that came to mind when I saw the question.>Also I can't believe you used Osu of all things. OSU is the Touhou of rhythm games.Not sure why that matters.>>736932857What about unranked maps? Does skill ceiling only count if the maps are ranked?
>>736932857I didn't really mean literally impossible, because yeah, in that case literally anything ever has "infinite" skill ceiling. My point is that with either you can push the design to the absolute limits of human capability if you start counting custom stuff.
>>736933127>if you start counting custom stuff.You were the one who included custom stuff...
>>736933318No, it's already included when we're talking about osu because it's made entire of custom maps.
>>736932751>A rhythm game chart isn't going to change.What's this then?
>>736932751That argument really only works if you're talking specifically within the realm of one single game or song on each side
>>736929752I don't know, but shmups are certainly far more interesting than rhythm games and this thread is not very good so I shan't be wasting time in it.If you are so desperate for a successful rhythm game thread just post miku. It is really not that hard. No need to be a cunt about it.
>>736934278>and this thread is not very good so I shan't be wasting time in it.>still posts in it and follows up with more participating beyond even saying that
>>736933008>What about unranked maps? Does skill ceiling only count if the maps are ranked?It's difficult in osu!'s case since a lot of unranked maps are just as good and playable as ranked maps. Perhaps you could say maps that generally adhere to ranking standards.
>>736929752rhythym games. Shmup fans have a hard set of demands of maximum difficulties based on their autismo 1cc clear requirements. Rhythm games limits not only run into hardware limits more, but also add new hardware to break those limits. >>736930820>Most difficult rhythm game?is functionally on par with playing the actual music. Back years ago, the peak difficulty was Keyboard mania, which was about as difficult as playing Lizt on the piano. And then music based on synths and loops that were never actually played at the ceiling end. >>736931190Start with Rez. >>736933127If we're limiting ourselves to retail products only, then music games and it's not even remotely close.
>>736935657>If we're limiting ourselves to retail products only, then music games and it's not even remotely close.Didn't a couple CAVE shooter modes take literal years for anyone in the world to clear them?
>>73693607912 years for Inbachi in SDOJ and that's with save states.
