So this genre is basically dead? All the devs who made these games what they were are gone. It's being kept on life support by solo indie devs, I guess.
>>736988774Redfall is too overlooked as an immsim. Absolute hidden gem.
>>736988774in this thread i will get upset at the word immersive sim and use it as a basis for why all these games suck.
The only real hope is Raphael Colantonio. Last I saw he was doing the rounds trying to secure funding for a new first person immsim, but who knows how that went. In case you don't know who he is:>Former Arkane president>Directed Arx Fatalis, Dark Messiah, Dishonored, Prey>Left to found indie studio>Arkane crumbled the instant he left>Made Weird West, which probably flopped
>>736988774>nudeus ex>imsim
>deathloop
>>736988858Most genres have retarded names, there's no point getting annoyed over it>4X>Metroidvania>Roguelike/Roguelite>Soulslike
>>736989085I just grabbed the first image I found on google, I didn't bother making my own grid.>>736989050Yeah, obviously
I played the Deus Ex series this year, and they were great. What stood out to me most was just being treated like I'm not a drooling moron. I feel like most game dialogue that's about politics or science is so dumbed down for the below average idiot that it feels childish listening to it, but here they actually talked like adults to each other. If anyone knows other games with that sort of feel, in whatever genre, let me know.
The latest Deus Ex game was cancelled because Eidos Montreal spent 7 years and 9 figures on a different project in development hell, which caused cancellations and layoffs all over the company. The game they were making sounds like a huge piece of shit>Wildlands was an open-world third-person action-adventure game in which players would take control of a character named River. River was part of a group of teenagers called Spiritbounds, who could ward off bad spirits with their magical staffs and ride mythical creatures. River’s companion was a giant-moose-looking animal called ‘Redheart’, which the player could ride to navigate around the map more quickly.
>>736989006I signed up to alpha test his new imsim, we haven't gotten any updates since then so I don't know if I jut didn't get in or the game is still in deep development.>>736989296Thief.
>>736989487the latest deus ex game was the first one
>>736988774It could be a viable niche, but somehow some higher-up always makes a terrible decision that ruins everything:> System Shock - Origin shipped the floppy version months before the CD, so most people only tried the inferior release. Also all the other bad management that eventually drove Looking Glass bankrupt.>Deus Ex - Squeenix fucked up Mankind Divided's release with some insane preorder bonus system that confused and angered potential customers.>Prey - Bethesda insisted on calling it that, which everyone saw as a fuck you to Human Head Studios.
>>736989709Nobody fucking cared about Prey/Prey 2. Just fucking drop this retarded narrative already.
Warren Spector and Paul Neurath of Deus Ex and Thief fame are releasing a new game next month called Thick as Thieves. Not sure what to think of it, but stealth games is the one genre I try to support with my purchases so I guess I'll see.>Originally announced as a PvPvE stealth game where you do a heist simultanously as other players, while you sabotage each other>Last month they came out and said they had pivoted the game, and now it's a solo/coop stealth gameI find it odd that they're not showing off any story elements in the trailer. If they pivoted from a multiplayer game to a singleplayer one, do you just do a series of heists with no meaning behind it? They describe it as "replayable" and different depending on the difficulty.
>>736989006>but who knows how that wentwe all know how that wentit isn't a live service monetized game people can play and pay into for 15 years, so every publisher is going to say no.
>>736989085deathloop is technically an immersive sim, it just isn't that good
>>736988774I hate Harvey Smith so much for revealing himself to be one of the biggest hacks in the industry.I seethe with anger whenever I think about post-Colantonio Arkane
>>736989006>>736990198Just looked it up since I was under the impression there had been no news about this. They're being published by Neowiz who made/published Lies of P.The new game is an alternate 1900s North America with strange futuristic technology. It's described as being a "continuum of Dishonored and Prey" in terms of gameplay, but even more open and more RPG elements.
>>736990636>I hate Harvey Smith so much for revealing himself to be one of the biggest hacks in the industry.You and me both. I'm convinced Raphael made Dishonored while Harvey Smith just used it as an opportunity to hang out with celebrities he hired.Btw, the guy playing the Outsider was fired from the sequel by Harvey for having the reddit username "trannydestroyer". He was of course replaced by some celebrity who was popular at the moment
>>736988774It's a genre for people that actually enjoy playing videogames, which sadly is a very small minority among people playing videogames
>>736988774Likely one of the same reasons why the stealth genre is dead? Yet the non Thief games should both be more marketable and ideal to reach a wider audience. The stealth ones are niche and appeal to one specific audience. Less accommodating to other players> It's being kept on life support by solo indie devsBarely. The only game they ever made that was worth a damn was The Dark Mod. The one that wasn't sold for money. FMs are a different story too.Also Dishonored sucks imo.I really hate it if i have to be brutally honest. Did too many things i disprove of as a stealth gamer. I mean I'd play another one because I'm desperately starved for anything nowadays but its my least liked game. Death Loop looks like garbage so i won't touch it.
>>736990959It's strange that this niche genre is literally characterized by... having multiple playstyles, reactive gameplay, and different ways to solve things.If you didn't know anything about gaming, you'd think those were basic aspects that most games strived for, but no. It's part of a dead genre. After playing Immsims lately, I kept thinking that we'll see less and less of them as Unreal Engine takes over.>>736991001I loved Dishonored, because it's great in so many areas. But I do think it's unfortunate that it's a power fantasy in a genre where the tension is supposed to come from feeling weak. You basically have to play it as a merciful demigod, sparing everyone instead of easily killing them.
Technically Thief is not really an immersive sim; it’s an action-adventure game, with an heavy focus on stealth, exploration and horror, that incidentally also allow you to stack crates on some random points and break levels that way.>>736989661The interplay between gameplay systems, sound, readables and atmosphere is what makes the world of Thief feel richly textured and mature (in a good way). Deus Ex politics are just 90s era cyberpunk, but the weird/new weird of Thief is not something we have seen in a lot of games.
It's not a genre but certain design elements Also >>736990959>>736991001It's mixture of More expensive to make + Smaller audiance poolAlso most imsim type games don't look that interesting unless you have person explain all the cool things someone is doingAlso i would like to see streamers playing theif or even dishonored
>>736991225>merciful demigodMore like reasonable who trying not murder people he worked with
I just remembered that another immersive sim is in the works. Judas, by the Bioshock guy. Not to sound like a loser, but I'm not that keen on playing as a woman. Also, Clockwork Revolution kind of seemed like an immersive sim to me, but I guess it's just a sci-fi action RPG.
>>736990959I would say people who enjoy games where they have to think for themselves about how to solve a problem. But yeah, there is a hint of truth to what you said.Big modern AAA gaming is either Netflix-like narrative slop, or jpg gacha collecting. Having fun is kind of a lost art.
>>736990959I would say people who enjoy games where they have to think for themselves about how to solve a problem. But yeah, there is a hint of truth to what you said.Big modern AAA gaming is either Netflix-like narrative slop, or jpg gacha collecting. Having fun is kind of a lost art.>>736991752>Ken LevineFlee, you fool
The biggest issue with Imm sims is that it's always been made a handful of devs all of who are getting older. If you want more imm sims you have to get new blood invested to make them to begin with otherwise it will go the way of the dodo.
>>736989006>The only real hope isThief FMs.
>>736992583There is only so much you can do with that engine man, after a while the AI becomes entirely predictable to you
BG3 is an immersive sim
>>736988774The genre is cursed and kills every studio that does it despite the acclaim and history each title seems to create.
>>736992979It's true. Even the upcoming ones seem to struggle with dev hell and layoffs. And like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, the games usually get sabotaged somehow, like the square enix pre order bonuses that caused controvery for Mankind Divided
Upcoming imsims: Ontos, Thick as Thieves, No Law, Judas, Bioshock 4 (trust the Rod), Blade, the Wolf Eye game already mentioned in this game, Exekiller
>>736993094still waiting for Gloomwood... waiting....
>>736992839Ralph says no: turned based slop
>>736992696As much as I'd love an engine improvement, the stuff people do is still amazing, and The Dark Mod exists.
>>736993094You mentioned the biggest ones, but I figured I could mention some I have on my wishlist. Some of them may never come out, I don't pay much attention to their dev updates. And I'm not entirely sure how accurate the immsim tag is for some of them>Core Decay>Deep State>DreadBound>Project Shadowglass>Sleight of Hand>Noirmancer>RetroSpace>Sir Kicksalot
>>736993219I don't think I'm gonna play it until it's 100% done. I played the very first iteration and it's obviously going to end up great. I hope it remains difficult, because they're adding a lot of tools for the player from what I can see
>>736990959>It's a genreIt's not a genre.
>>736993403Are there any Dark Mod missions on the scale of Black Parade being made?
>>736992839um actually immersive sims simulate the minute actions as part of the world logic where as rpgs such as baldurs gate abstract them into skill checks or dice rolls. hope this helps.>>736993773its a genre, proof: were talking about it
>>736993094ppl still be pretending bioshock plays anything like ss huh
>>736988774I wish Prey's combat wasn't so abysmally bad, because I like everything else about it.
>>736990813Kino
>>736989768If that title was not relevant, why use it? And a title that indicated it was similar to System Shock would have helped too. It was spite.
What do you guys think?
>>736995796They have to use it or they lose the IP rights. Prey 2017 originally began development as System Shock 3.
>>736988774>tfw Deathloop got marketed so badly that I thought it was some multiplayer-focused game with Souls' invasion mechanicWhat an immense fuckup
>>736996568I mean it did have multiplayer with an invasion mechanic, it just wasn't the main focus.
>>736996568tbf it did have MP.
>>736996568it was marketed an imsim but it was actually marvel quip slop with 2 hours of tutorials
>>736996568Wait, there's a single player mode?
>>736996371That's just Prey on a ship. Which is OK but I'm more interested in the actual mechanics.
>>736996868You got advance machinery and tech Cult (leviathan powers)Bio enhancements such as super strength, resistance to certain things and magneto powers later on
>>736993496Theres a few upcoming indie stealth games i know about. With a few here being the most obvious direct inspirations in gameplay to Thief and others a little more distant. Only missing thing in pic rel is Sleight of Hand although that's kind of Dishonored inspired or something but with the whole deckbuilding gameplay which is weird. I have no idea whether any of them will release in acceptable time frames aside from a few. I'm not sure how ambitious in scope a lot of them are but I'd guess its very limited for what small teams can achieve, especially if they're solo. Indie still seems limited is what is achievable right now in general.Don't see any Dark Mod type of game coming any time soon. Even Gloomwood feels below that imoI'm just hoping Thick as Thieves is actually playable solo and it's enjoyable as a solo game. Art style for it is already meh. Dislike that part a little.
>>736993094>Bioshock 4wut
>>736992839Nintendo's new Zeldaslop games are more immsim than BG3 retard
>>736997370Oh yeah and this one Excised too. Seems to be both horror and stealth in a way that matters more than your average horror game at least.
>>736988774Basically yes. An immersive sim relies on interacting, complex systems and those are no longer possible for a variety of reasons, like console controllers, disjointed development with too many cooks, incompetent company management and the retarded target audience.>>736989487Open world is the only red flag you ever need.>>736996496>They have to use it or they lose the IP rightsGood. This is normal, trademark is actual cancer and should be abolished. They don't """have""" to use it, they just want to use it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRi8LptvFZY
Far Cry 2 deserves a mention.That Exxekiller game coming out might have the atmospheric vibes you're into.
>>736997370Also aside from me personally hoping to see a Thief revival in the indie scene. I hope outside that i see a major stealth-action revival. But even in this area the interest is limited from indie developers. And even from what i have listed here some of them are too amateur to get off the ground or go anywhere or they're just going to be in development forever. Theres a few with maybe potential but overall we're not seeing above average quality levels. I don't know maybe its going to take indie another 5 years to make games like AA devs were making back in 2000-2006
