Yokai Watch, Digimon, Monster Hunter Stories, Why is it so hard to successfully replicate the Pokémon formula?
How do digimon games even work? Do you have to know "digilutions"? Because all I know is that it's complicated as fuck. I don't even know where you would start, digimon world 1-3?
But the pokemon formula sucks.
>>736992778it takes alot more work than you think, with advertisments, fads, merch and media to get audiences hooked.i'll take the the blond and purple ones
Pikachu is an icon. It's like trying to replicate Mario or Spiderman. You'll need consistent media and merch to get into the average normie's head but not enough that people feel oversaturated.
Digimon Time Stranger and MH Stories 3 seem like much better games than the pulpy goysludge that is Pokemon Scarlet however.This stupid baseball pitcher, rare animal poaching, dog fighting series
>>736992778roco kingdom is already incredibly successful in china right now, with over 30m players and $13m revenue in the first weekhttps://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1hNQSB9EiY/?spm_id_from=333.1387.upload.video_card.click&vd_source=f3d7614f49d86c212ff59ded6f7696d9plus, it's not gachaonce it launches globally, it might become even bigger than genshinthere's dokev too, and after seeing crimson desert's positive reception, i have more hopes for that one
>>736992884It changes game to game. In the virtual pets and World 1, it logs shit like how many times you trained, your wins, and how many care mistakes you made. And after a while your digimon will automatically evolve and it could become a variety of things depending on that shit.
>>736992778Because they never have a good battle system>>736993013No it doesn't.
>>7369955151v1 sucks ass in turn based games. And that's without bringing up the fact you only get 4 moves and types making shit braindead. The games are for 6 year olds.
>>736992884>How do digimon games even work?Depends on the version. Mostly they operate like the Virtual Pets do, with branching evolutions depending on how you raise them- how many fights you win, how quick you are to heal them, how much you feed them and clean up their shit.>I don't even know where you would startTime Stranger, the most recent game, is probably the best, but Cyber Sleuths is the next best, and WAY cheaper.
>>>/vp/
>>736994751In what way outside graphics?
>>736992778Because nobody is even fucking trying. Smt nocturne is the tits with all the gods and demons to collect but the story is some wank shit. I will love the story framework of Pokemon Red Blue yellow. If they just follow that formula and have good monsters to collect, it would rival Pokemon.
>>736998441Have you ever tried this one? It's the apex of this subgenre in my eyes. God, I wish the professional version gets an English version one day.
>>736998441just wait for roco CHADdom
>>736992778>no ev/iv system>no nature system>ability system and moves arent as refined as pokemon>no weather system>no breeding system to carry over movesPokeyman sucks. But replayability and nuzlocke far outshine the others.
>>736992778When you think about it, Monster Hunter Stories cheat when it comes to taming monsters. When you compared them to SMT or Pokemon, they literally raised their monsters from an egg. In SMT, you have to fight and weaken the monster and then try to negotiate with them just for a chance of them joining (and if not, you get an item or they just run away). In MHS, you just steal an egg and now you have an Elder Dragon that you raised like a pet dog. Even Pokémon stress it out on how dangerous some of the Pokémon really are.
>>737000854>no ev/iv system>no nature system>ability system and moves arent as refined as pokemon>no weather system>no breeding system to carry over movesGen 1 didn't have this either and it was still massively successful.
>>736992778Too little too late.Pokemon did it first and has an older dedicated fanbase. Pokemon clones don't have nostalgia to carry them and just end up viewed as games for children, that children don't want to play either.
>>737001220>Pokemon did it firstIt literally didn't. It was the most popular, that's all.
>>736992884Every Digimon game is different. Some are obtuse virtual pet oddities, some are straightforward JRPGs.If you want to start with the weirdness, pick World 1, or the more accessible Re:Digitize (presuming you can figure out how to emulate an unlocalized 3DS game) or Next Order.If you want a straightforward JRPG, Cyber Sleuth and Time Stranger are what you should look at. Cyber Sleuth is originally a Vita game and it shows, but it is still charming and fun, Time Stranger was made for modern consoles, and incidentally is the best selling game in franchise history.But Digimon is not exclusively or even primarily a game franchise, so consider looking into the different forms Digimon media take. If you're interested in VPets, pick up either a Ver.20th or a Digital Monster X, both are about $20 and give you the classic pet raising experience. If you want to watch the anime, Adventure and Tamers are widely considered to be the best. Beat Break is currently airing and is aimed at a more mature audience; I haven't seen much yet but it looks really promising. Digimon seasons are mostly self-contained, so pick whichever one you want to watch most.Manga is not really considered one of the pillars of the franchise, but if you want to, check out V-Tamer 01, it's a lighthearted Toriyama esque adventure.The trading card game is incredibly well made, very fun, relatively affordable, and modestly successful, so if you have any interest in TCGs, I highly recommend that. The dev team for the TCG seems to genuinely care about the franchise and as a result it is a great representation of Digimon as a whole
>>737001136It had evs and ivs. No abilities but i think for the era moves like Focus Energy or Razor Wind were pretty new
>>736996587>in what way outside of this glaring issue that ruins the experience
>>737002503>It had evs and ivsNot quite, it had something different. Fans like to call it "stat experience" because it's so different.
>>737002503You think stats boosts in an RPG was invented by Pokemon?You think 2-turn attacks were invented by Pokemon?
>>736992778>Why is it so hard to successfully replicate the Pokémon formula?Because most aren't willing to put in the same amount of effort to make a pokemon game and instead take the graphics route for easy wins.I mean, even with the DLC, time stranger's monster count pales in comparison to pokemon SV as does the world given it's still an extremely linear game, the only real difference between it and Cyber Slueth is that they got rid of the blue cube maps.That's also why people can only really criticise pokemon for graphics and performance. In other words, where pokemon is focused on a player going on an adventure and finding new monsters every other one is focused more on the story.
>>737002578So they aren't better games at all.
>>737002578>>>/reddit/
>>737002695That's why I don't like modern Pokemon games. They focus way too much on the story, older games were way more fun.
>>737002753After the mess that was gen 7 they've toned down the focus on story but at the same time they've also started to change it from the usual "evil team goes after legendary and antics ensue"
>>736992778The key is the monster designsNobody wants goofy ass (aah for our zoomers in the audience) Dragon Quest or Yokai Watch monsters, Digimon and SMT are overdesigned and most indie monster collection games just feel off. Palworld is popular because it aced the style and because Pokémon autists kept spamming "NINTENDO INVENTED DEER" tier arguments instead of focusing on the clear copycats Palworld is fully able to get away with their stealing which is based
>>737003124>Palworld is popular because it aced the style and because Pokémon autists kept spamming "NINTENDO INVENTED DEER"Anon, those were the arguments used to DEFEND Palworld, not to attack it.People would point out the obvious similarities and how something like dinossom just had meganium's face to a t but the response was always>LMAO HE THINKS NINTENDO INVENTED DINOSAURS!or that dumb dragon quest image.
>>736995515Yes it does. People buy Pokemon for the Pokemon, not the shitty combat attached to it.
>>737002949>they've toned down the focus on storyThey literally haven't.The newest games are the worst offenders
>>737003765No he’s right Gen 8 barely has any story until the final boss and Gen 9 has an hour tutorial and then some short cutscenes before and after major bosses, it’s not as intrusive as Sun/Moon
>>737004306>Hour long tutorial>In a Pokemon gameIn gen 1, after an hour of playtime, you usually had a gym badge. Now you just get a starter in that time.Really highlights my issues with modern Pokemon games.
>>737004367>noooo every game has to have the exact same format forever if it doesn’t say Gym Badge: 1 I haven’t made any progress
>>737004502Why do you need an hour+ long tutorial for Pokemon?
>>737004643I am using tutorial very loosely to refer to the point before you get the notBike and the game opens up not a period of teaching you the basics
>>737004797>Dodges the questionWhy do you need an hour+ tutorial for Pokemon? Kids in the 90's didn't.
>>737004845There isn’t an hour tutorial I was using the term loosely to refer to “the part before open world”.
>>737004928Then I accept your concession.Thanks for confirming Pokemon is worse with an hours long, hand-holding tutorial (like in SV).
>>736992778Pokémon was a product of its time, it wasn't just the games, the anime did a lot of heavy lifting to make this franchise so popular.Pokémon was everywhere: games, anime, toys, cards, sticker albums (do kids even collect those nowadays?).
>>737004367
>>737004367>In gen 1, after an hour of playtime, you usually had a gym badgeAnd that would be considered the tutorial, yes.
>>737004367>Really highlights my issues with modern Pokemon games.That the areas are larger?That there's more pokemon to see?Because that's the only reason you don't get your first badge in an hour
>>736992778>replicate the Pokémon formulaThis is the problem. Don't rip off a formula, do your own thing.Megami Tensei is a fully distinct system from Pokémon and it's easily the 2nd most successful monster taming series.
Digimon was so stupid because they kept changing what game it was every single time. Why was digimon world 2 a randomized dungeon crawler with the worst evolution system known to man?
>>7369957951v1 is fine, it's just Gamefreak level designers fault for not capitalizing on it.>>737003691Lol, that's the normie take. Big portion of Pokemon fans are the adults who loved the turn based combat.
>>737006112So why do new games tutorials literally hold your hand for an hour, instead of letting you learn by play, like a good game?
>>737006428Yeah Digimon lack of system consistency between its RPGs is its biggest weakness imo. Pokemon really benefited from having a consistent data structure and mechanics that only received additions instead of removal of existing features (megas, z moves and dynamax gtfo, although I loved teras they might go away next game too)
>>736992778They have the same problem as the Smash Bros clones. They make changes to the formula in order to stand apart from their inspiration, which cause the overall experience to not be as fun. Pokemon had a really solid gameplay loop. It's so fun that people are willing to overlook the immense lack of polish and quality that the modern games have.
Pokemon simply invented monstersThere were zero monsters before Pokemon
>>737006740
>>736992778Those torchic are going to die in a couple days, aren't they?
>>736992778Top dog bias. Whatever does it first or has the most attention is able to coast on that success while being propped up by all the mindless fans consuming it. What that leaves is people that are far more discerning over quality which results in whatever is "second fiddle" having to put drastically more effort into what it's doing for a chance to get any attention, both from those who will have higher expectations and any of those mindless fanboys they want to draw attention from. Trying to break out by capitalizing on the larger numbers of the latter is also a catch 22 because they come to see the top dog and everything about it as a sign of familiarity if not quality, therefore anything with superficially similar aspects is compared to an extreme, ignorant degree with calls of "rip off", "-like", "clone" etc.. This then follows that anything those others might do to set themselves apart is viewed as objectively bad because different, but if it shifts course to be more like the top dog then there's no reason for it to exist at all when the original is there and familiar to them.
>>737006652They don't, they do the exact same things the original game did. They just have a considerably larger area between the starting area and first gym.
>>737008278So tldr other devs are pretty lazy.
>>736994751>those threecan the trainer refuse and just like... get a normal job?
>>737006662Kind of crazy to think digimon never thought to have any kind of persistence between games. Like the entire show is always about "Partner digimon" but they've never made a digivice pet raising toy that lets you import your partner into their main RPGs.
>>736992778only tendies are unhinged enough to enjoy that gameplay formula and they don't play other games in the same numbers/thread
>>736992778>Yokai Watchgarbage monster designs and the anime was poop/piss/fart for preschoolers>Digimonthey never had good games, only adventure sells>Monster Hunter StoriesMonster Hunter lacks a casual fanbase
>>736992778Digimon has been alive for decades and it is still printing money so I'll dare to call it a success. Of course it isn't on par with pokemon's gigafuckyou revenue but honestly no other franchise is anyway, doesn't mean they are not successful. I consider digimon designs to be way cooler than pokemon for the most part tbqh.
>>737009282Well, they kind of tried doing something like that with the vital bracelet and the app connectivity but that's about it.
>>736992778level 5 is terminally retarded and put too many eggs in the ai basketit's a shame ykw4 never got an english release
>>7370095434 actually released?
>>736992778Pokefaggots are cattle indoctrinated since childhood. The IP itself is garbage.
>>737009710yeah, about six years agoit also has a fully completed fan translation mod
>>737009414>only adventure sellsAre sure about that? Because Tri. and Last Adventure say otherwise.>>737009478Digimon designs, for me, are all over the place. They do have some good design, but the bad ones can be VERY noticeable. It's understandable though, since it's supposed to be computer data given form and it can be anything really.
>>736992778I've been playing coromon and it's fun
>>736992778Trying to get into Digimon tcg from pokemon tcg and I'm almost giving up. The game is too complicated, there are q gazillion triggers every time I do something, it seems too hard to keep track of all the different mcguffin effects on everything.
>>737009010Quite literally the exact opposite.
>>737010000>Tri.literally poochie the movies, starring meicoomon and the Oc Bitch>Last AdventureTri 2.0 but with a worse story
>>736994751I just really hate the farm shit in time stranger, really put me off. No reason to have an in-game 30 minute timer. You can't level your guys up properly to get the stats and evo you want unless you spend loads of time and/or money changing their stat growths and there's bond level and talent and shit and idek how that shit works. Why can't I just level my guys up in fights? so gay. Almost made me drop the game.
>>736992778>Recreate the Pokémon formula >Get sued into the ground Gee I wonder why people aren't keen
>>736994751I have been interested in MHStories for a while. My buddy enjoys them. What makes thrm comparable to Pokemon? Is it like catching and raising Monsters? In what ways make it better than Pokemon?
Sometimes, I think if Pokemon came out for the first time today, it wouldn't be as popular.t. enjoys monster collectors in general>>737010302Yeah, but Meicrackmon is omega sex.
Time Stranger suffered from getting redesigned mid-production. The guy that runs the wiki has talked about all the half finished shit he found while datamining.
>>737010487And here we have a retarded palfag, a common sighting in pokemon threads where they're known for their ignorance.Stop being fuckwit, there have been hundreds of pokemon clones that haven't been sued for it. In the case of Palworld, not only is it not a clone but it plagiarised a patented mechanic. Nothing about the core gameplay is patented.
>>737010539>Sometimes, I think if Pokemon came out for the first time today, it wouldn't be as popular.>t. enjoys monster collectors in generalIt definitely wouldn't sell as much but it would still probably do good numbers since it isn't a long running series people would be a little more lenient on criticism especially where graphics are concerned, no one would cry about not having every mon since every other monster tamer would have set up the standard of cuts and it would still put other tamers to shame in QoL features, monster count and exploration not to mention multiplayer.
>>737010539>if Pokemon came out for the first time today, it wouldn't be as popular.Well ofc because Digimon is the status quo by thenBut who knows, maybe in that alternate timeline, the fans will notice that Pokemon seem to have more internal consistency than Digimon and change their mind
>>737010874The only difference between palworld and all those unnamed pokemon clones is that the former found success. So I guess you can make a pokemon clone without getting sued as long as you don't make money with it lol.
>>736992884Real niggas only focus on raising their digimon without caring what will it become
>>736999050I've not tried this one, but since you brought it to my attention it reminded me that I played some sort of game in this series on the Gameboy and it was the fucking tits.
>>736992778Digimon Time Travelers was a huge success though?
>>737013668Not even remotely related, retard
