Is Bioshock really dumbed down consolized trash compared to System Shock 2?
>>737006535Yes.
Unreal Engine 2.5 is for PC
yeah
>>737006535PC focus to console focus = completely and utter dumbing down
>>737006535Yeah but it's still a fun game. The atmosphere and overall level/art design carry it hard.
>>737006535The only thing that Bioshock does better is hacking.
Yeah, but its still cool. Still fun
beat Bio1/2 last year and currently playing SS1 all for the first time, they have nothing to do with each other, SS1 feels like a big puzzle game with lots of exploration, Bioshock feels like a shooter with some extra stuff
>>737006535Ken Levine literally said as much- though he just said "consolized" not "dumbed down".
>>737007150Bioshock's enemy AI is much better. Better art direction too.Also, a very subjective opinion, but I liked not being able to carry a lot of medpacks - having to remember places with medpacks/eve and backtracking if you used some is an interesting alternative to inventory management and dumping your shit near the elevator.
>>737006535Yes but SS2 itself is a downgrade from SS1 in certain respects.
>>737006535Which aspect is a downgrade?I mean the system itself is changed around, but there's nothing you do in System Shock that's so different.
>>737008120Serious criticisms like downgrading level design complexity aside, I really dislike how SS2 handled Shodan and gave birth to Shodan waifufags as a consequence.
>>737006586/thread
>>737008205>Smaller maps>No inventory system>No skills>Can't go fastWe went from Dungeon Crawler FPS to Dungeon Crawler FPS to console FPS with RPG elements.Thank fuck 7th Gen is over and AAA is dying, what a cancerous fucking time.
>>737006535Does System Shock 2 have visual weapon upgrades?Does System Shock 2 have weapon durability?
>>737008323Bioshock was better than alot of other shooters that came out around the time and it still holds up in some ways. I will admit that there’s parts of it that really haven’t aged well though. The waypoint system, piss easy difficulty and half-baked morality system were definitely products of their time.
>>737006535it was made for millenials
Bioshock is better and made System Shit irrevelant. SS fanboys are just mad, just like Quakefags and Halo
>>737009408Ok, now go get stepped on by cyborg midwife or something, would you kindly.
>>737006535Yeah but system shock 2 isn't really that complex either and I don't blame devs for going all in on consoles in the 2000s even if it did mean you had to simplify things for a controller. PC really was a dying platform during this era. It wasn't until Minecraft, league of legends, and csgo that it came back
>>737006535Is System Shock 2 really dumbed down trash compared to System Shock 1?
hsdhsdh
>>737010079Yeah. System shock 1 is a complex dungeon crawler, system shock 2 is BioShock with slightly more upgrade options. Genuinely find it bizzare how someone can call one smart and other dumb when they are barely different from each other. Hacker modules is just adam, the only real difference is that it is possible to make a really terrible character in system shock 2, BioShock 1 9 health kits makes upgrading just a bonus instead of a necessity
>>737010079It's plato's forms. Bioshock is a dumbed down System Shock 2 is a dumbed down System Shock. And of course Bisohock infinite is to go further beyond
>>737010079SS2 trannies think anyone who points out how dumbed down and linear its level design is compared to SS1 only does it for hipster cred.
I liked both System Shocks and the remake, disliked Prey(2023) and bounced off it fairly quickly. Would I like or dislike Bioshook?
>>737008120>>737010079System Shock remake is better than the original game
>>737010350Prob like it well enough. Bioshock is just a shooter that's a tad too easy with intresting locations.
>>737006758This makes me sad, but at least there are no games to get dumbed down anymore :^)
>>737010375You're not wrong but that's because it had decades of gaming and a dozen of imsims to follow from. There are elements from System Shock 2, Bioshock and even Prey in there. It's a pastiche.
BIshock is really carried by it's presentation because i got really bored on my second play through yes there powers and alternative routes But most of the you can just use the tommy gun and fire plazmidmap looks amazing but isn't that interesting to play around inI'd take SS1 remake over BS
BIoshock is really carried by it's presentation because i got really bored on my second play through yes there powers and alternative routes But most of the you can just use the tommy gun and fire plazmidmap looks amazing but isn't that interesting to play around inI'd take SS1 remake over BS
>>737006535System shock 2 had bloat that made most builds useless. Bioshock is more streamlined, but in a way that makes the experience more cohesive.
Is 4chan taking fucking forever to post anything 4 any1 else?
>>737010810Yes, it's great. I almost want to play video games because of that.
>>737010230Bioshock infinite is a super smart game for super smart people.It’s so smart that it has racism in it and it even calls bullshit made up magical powers quantum physics
>>737006535Yes, in almost every respect. Bioshock is the normalfag 'accessible' version of System Shock 2. I do appreciate that melee is still OP in both games, though.>>737007862>better art directionSS2 is damn good for the time it came out, and it's just 'realistic scifi'. Bioshock is this cartoony version of the 1950s and is art deco dialed up to 150%. The best visual thing Bioshock did was the opening ride through Rapture, and the water effects.>>737008537>no>yesDurability becomes a non issue between repair skill and maintenance tools unless you're not searching and scavenging all over.And these are Bioshock's two biggest sins:>abandoning the legitimately creepy undersea horror theme (go look up the original art book)>the last third of the game is dogshit everything after meeting Ryan is crap
>>737007862you can carry 9 medpacks and eve hypos what are you on about
>>737006535Yes, i don't get how Bioshock made Ken Levine a household name. It did prove that most gamers really are cattle though. Everything they call innovative in Bioshock has already been done in System Shock 2. >audio logs>plasmids >the plot twist of the player being lied to and chasing loose ends for someone who isn't who they appear to beThe only thing Bioshock has going for it is the Big Daddy/Little Sister mechanic. But is the moral dilema of killing a child or not killing a child that deep? Yes it does give you less Adam but it's barely noticeable. It's not a hard choice. Prey had actual moral dilemas in it's story even if the choice wih Typhon neuromods was barely consequential. The story had other choices and more interesting themes than Bioshock. Would you trust your past self even if it doesn't align with your current views? Is something way more interesting than anything Bioshock did. And that's just one of the plot points Prey had.
>>737011462>SS2 is damn good for the time it came outNot denying it, but it rips off Alien/Aliens too much for me, Bioshock's art-deco retrofuturism in comparison was very original at the time, off the top of my head I can't even name popular media that could have influenced it.>>737011507Yeah, but I'm one of those hoarders that need to be fully stocked up at all times.
>>737011686>Ken Levine is a household nameHe attained b-grade vidya celeb status for half a decade, but that was it. I will say Bioshock was probably the earliest normalfag-wowing AAA game I can readily think of, though. Even more than Fallout 3/NV.
>>737006535yes
>>737011859>SS2 rips off Alien/Aliens too muchAside from the annelid eggs and the handful of times you see crewmen stuck to walls/ceilings in alien goo, there really isn't much they have in common.>no singular, powerful alien form that slaps your shit every time it shows up (the Brawlers can be melee'd, for instance)>no queen/apex alien life form (it's just a gestalt consciousness)>no huge minigun like the big assault rifle (best you get is the regular Assault Rifle)>you're entirely alone/no crew or other characters except SHODAN shit talking you through the PA systemIn contemporary terms, sure, there's a lot more crap in the Aliens movie franchise that you could point at and say 'SS2 is similar,' but back in 2000 when it came out? Nah.
how gay is ss1 remake
>>737006535yes it plays nothing like either SS game and is related only because people still believe the spiritual successor marketing.
>>737006535Yes, but System Shock 2's rpg mechanics are a poorly balanced mess, so it's honestly not that big of a loss.
>>737006758sue me. I loved deadly shadows but never got around to playing the first two
>>737011462>SS2 is damn good for the time it came out, and it's just 'realistic scifiSystem Shock 2 has the same aesthetic as any random 90s sci-fi. The crew wear Star Trek uniforms.
>>737012739It's excellent
>>737006535Bioshock is for sex having ChadsSystem Shock 2 is for nerdy virgin losers
>>737013334Yeah, and SS2 is infinitely better than SS1.
>>737013372how much does it casualise the original though
>>737006535It's always funny when PC fags try to larp as le uber hardcore gaymer when literally every single game they play for decades now has literal built-in save states that you can just spam endlessly to completely trivialize all challenge, and the games are even designed around this lazy shit, so they just throw cheap, poorly telegraphed shit at you because "oh well, just spam quick save".They will never understand the satisfaction of overcoming and mastering an actual well-designed and curated challenge.
>>737013630SS2, in a first time playthrough, would eat a casual player for lunch. Especially the first deck, where you're getting raped by robots in the cargo bays, laser turrets on the way to engineering, and pipe hybrids throughout medical.
>>737013334yes
>>737013697Can confirm, got filtered at the cargo bays and those robots. Pipe hybrids not so bad though, they're basically harmless.
>>737011686Bioshock has better level design, artstyle, sound design, story, writing, enemy AI, combat, and difficulty/challenge than SS2, and SS2 is already considered to be one of the greats, so it should be obvious actually >muh cattle gaymers!!!Says the retard with zero clears of note who spams quick saves aka SAVE STATES
>>737013785The only thing that regularly kicks my ass in the first part, even as someone who's beaten the game a dozen times, are the two laser turrets outside of that cargo bay airlock with the security office nearby. I always have to do cheese tactics to destroy them.>pipe hybrids are basically harmlessThey're super easy in the original SS2. In the SS2 Remaster, they're a bit smarter and will bait out your melee swings and can do an attack with basically zero start up that hits like a truck. The shotgun ones are unironically easier to deal with.
>>737013697>SS2didn't ask
>>737011686>>737011005Levine should've been laughed out of the industry after Infinite. Oh wait, he basically was.
>>737013903No such thing as "cheese tactics" in an imsim.
>>737006535no its simplified maybe too simplified but its poished system shock 2
>>737014284It still felt like cheese to abuse leaning out to pop a quick shot at the turret before it could lock and fire, but I can see your point.
>>737015505polished by taking out everything that made ss2 stand out from a regular fps
Long time System Shock 2 player. Both are absurdly easy games, even on their highest difficulty levels. It's just slightly harder to understand because of player stats and a larger amount of psi powers
What is even going on with Judas?
>>737013849the only thing i guess you can argue for Bioshock is subjective crap like asethetic choices.but if you're talking about other things, it's mostly a straight downgrade. the level design is much more linear, and restrictive in its design. Bioshock will lock you in scripted events and areas to fight new enemies and bosses or do certain things. any kind of vertical aspects that were in SS2 have been removed in favor of flatter levels with easier ones for navigation. >enemy AI, combat, and difficulty/challenge than SS2i guess the AI in bioshock does more things but its not anything of greater challenge to you as a player. but not anything of a great challenge. but the overall TTK was increased significantly for the player was increased in bioshock. whereas basic pipe hybrids can oneshot you on or even twoshot you on depending on your endurance stats on impossible (up to level 4). even things like projectiles where harder to dodge in ss2 since enemies would predict where you sidestep.that also being said, ive beaten ss2 on impossible with no save states outside of the save states being when you load into a level after using an elevator. its a deliberately harder game with a lower ttk for your player, wayyyy more restrictions of skillpoints and ammo drops (ammo barely drops at all and leveling your skills is way more costly), even aspects that would be casual, like the respawning station, just actually makes the game HARDER on blind playthroughs over save states.Bioshock is objectively easier, and way more forgiving. its the equivalent of the brainlet wojak wearing the smart guy mask.and just to think SS2 is already a dumber game than SS1. what the fuck popped in your retarded brain to think Bioshock wasnt in some way lol.
You can't box stack in either. DX1, nuDX, and Prey mog both franchises on account of having actual physics objects
>>737017551>you can't box stack in DX1u wot? Of course you can and a few areas require this if you're trying for stealth/secret approaches. There are some items JC can't stand on, but you can absolutely stack movable boxes and use them to get up to places.You can't do it in nuDX, since you can't even jump in those games.
>>737017551i mean, so does the shock series?
>>737017551You can do some cool physics stuff with telekinesis in Bioshock. A simple example: little sisters look for corpses to gather adam, you can stack corpses in a convenient place surrounded with electric traps, mines or turrets for an easy big daddy kill.
>>737017627>You can't do it in nuDX, since you can't even jump in those games.Are you retarded?
>>737017994I might be. I could've sworn nuDX (HR/MD) didn't let you jump and only had a 'take tactical cover' button. I might be misremembering.
>>737011686>the plot twist of the player being lied toI figured out both twists on my first playthroughs. I thought it was Shodan mimicking a random dead crew member voice when some of Polito's lines became too misanthropic for a human. I thought Atlas was not who he said he was when he started talking about his family too much and thought it was probably Fontaine when audio logs started mentioning him very frequently saying he was totally dead.
>>737006535In a way it is, but I also don’t think bioshock was trying to do what system shock was aiming for.
>>737018303>trying to do what system shock was aiming for.the advertising certainly made me believe differently
>>737018303Bioshock started as a very clear spiritual successor to SS2 (a FPSRPG horror game), but over development morphed into something mechanically similar, but tonally way different.
Haven’t played any SS games. Should I start with 1 OG? The remake looks iffy
>>737008248>737008248she was hotter in ss1
>>737018582Nah
>>737008248I like how it made SHODAN a laughing stock, and I can only hope she continues to become more and more irrelevant while keeping her haughty exterior.
>>737018582they tried to troonify her in SS1, thankfully SS2 course corrected quick
>>737018483If you don't mind the graphics go for vanilla or enhanced edition. remake for the most part is well done but theres a lot of small things that are different whether it be the way enemies behave, or how you don't drag things into your inventory. All minutia but ultimately made the experience what it is today. Original feels more snappy and responsive overall, remake is sluggish in comparison since everything now has it's own animation that needs to play, and to facilitate that enemies are a little bit less aggressive, it all snowballs. It's biggest flaw is the addition of weapon upgrades, because this introduces the scrap mechanic, which means if you want to play optimally you need to pick up absolutely everything you see and melt it down. Not necessary to engage with but also stupid. Later on there's also a particular segment where you need a certain item to open a certain door. In the og game the item is common and has multiple spawns throughout the floor, making it much more natural to consider as a way to open the door, where as in remake you need a specific drop from a specific place which kind of stands out compared to the rest of the game. VR in the remake is less annoying potentially? Final boss sucks in all versions of the game.
>>7370065352 is a retarded version of 1 tho
>>737013163you dont know what you love
>>737018949No? They tried to quadroonify her, kek.
>>737018672IN SYSTEM SHOCK 3 SHODAN MUST _________ IN ORDER TO SURVIVE
>>737009052So was SS2, retard.
>>737007150i havent played system shock but i gaurantee that Rapture is a cooler setting. rapture mogs, simple as
>>737006535No
>>737019732art deco sucks ass, idiot
Bioshock left a longer lasting spiritual impression on me.The first thing I wanted to do when I got a vr headset was explore the half life alyx bioshock worlds.The art deco theme, the creative little tid bits about the little sisters big daddy's, and Adam it's all more interesting than system shock.
test
>replayed SS2 remaster a while back>played an absolute jar head Marine type>1 or 2 points in hacking, if any at all>get to final boss fight with SHODAN>can't hack the terminals to drop her shield>don't have enough ICE Picks for every terminalAm I retarded, or is there no way to beat that fight if you don't have hacking skills (and can't cheat them with PSI or something) and don't have enough ICE Picks for each of the terminals?
>>737019732Kinda. Rapture is cool, but it's also pretty comic book and submerged in the political theatre levine wanted to portray.System Shock 1 and 2 are more speculative science-fiction and aren't terribly fantastical. There's quite a few dystopian elements with the criminal empires and people getting cyborg'd even before the game, but the games don't really dwell on that aspect.
>>737020601i think the shields have health bars or something.
>>737019147I know that I love you.
>>737006535Bioshock does streamline things for consoles, but you got a very different game honestly. Much more combat oriented and faster paced for a VERY different fundamental design principle, Bioshock is a ton more aggressive and more focused on enemies outright jumping and assaulting in frantic action versus SS2 being relatively more tactical.
Did normies genuinely think Bioshock's gameplay and systems were innovative and something completely new to FPS?
>>737006535yes, but they are both good games. bioshock arguably has the better story.
>>737006758>consoleYou mean just Xbox
>>737019813if i had taste as shit as yours, i wouldnt draw attention to it
>>737019147I played both.Deadly shadows was more eventful and had clever side routes.
>>737019246She gets an android body and you think she is gonna kill you but turns out its a sex doll model and now she's horny and insane.
>>737021681Yeah but the setting and flavor are just delicious to the imagination
>>737006535I'm glad I never played Bioshock despite everyone around me playing it. It just looked like slop. System Shock 2 is actually a really deep commentary on the shadowy underside of our political "system"
