>I want all suffering to end, I will cure disease, murder, rape, war and famineHow was he in the wrong again?
>>737007376>cure rapeThere.
>>737007376Because he was going to lobotomize the entire human population to achieve that?What exactly is the point of living if your personality, desires and dreams can be re-written on a whim because they even mildly interfered with someone else's experiences? Or not even that, but you just give up on your goals because he decided they're too outlandish for you?
>>737007376he wasn't
>>737007376Rape builds character.
>>737007376He wanted to achieve it by mind controlling people.>but muh heart thieves do that tooyes.
>>737007376he wasn't, he created a utopia by any definition of the word
>>737007575Not even that, just a mass hallucination and brainwash. Humans are so fundametally fucked, that was the only possible solution.
could we not have compromised and let him at least get rid of rape? come on, we really dont need that
>>737007376Living in a flawed reality rather than a """perfect""" illusion.>>737007643I'm not sure that's true anon
>>737007376He forgot to ask for consent before throwing people into his dream world.Also it wasn't perfect since his dream world is biased towards what he thinks is right, if you spoke to a few of the NPCs on the street who has their own mini story arc throughout the entire game, some of them ended up in a worse position in Maruki's dream world, with the most memorable one being the girl who broke up with his abusive boyfriend who ended up back in the relationship in Maruki's dream world because the boyfriend was miserable after the break up.
>>737007376He wasnt wrong at first but the writers realize that they made him too right, so they made him go full retard by also controlling every single thing people do. Like the guy who wanted to be an artist wasnt allowed to be an artist because being an artist is suffering
>>737007816At that point you're just removing their humanity itself. If he can't deal with reality as it is then he should just kill himself rather than forcing everyone to follow along with what he personally views as acceptable, as though they're just dolls he can mess with as he likes.
Something something Shiho
>>737008196being raped was IMPORTANT for Shiho's character development
>>737008114He was mental himself too. Completely mindbroken by what happened to his fiancee. If someone put him in a purple suit he'd fit right in.
>>737007376Because he was about to do the exact same thing as the MC's group without being part of said group, which is a death sentence in any JRPG.
>doesn't actually stop any of that>just picks and chooses on a whim who gets their happy dream world and who has to settle with a life they dont want because he granted their dreams to someone else "more deserving"The only people who defend this retard are miserable lonely faggots.
>>737007376It's a rehash of Evangelion except it's dumped down and half assed to be easily digested by teens, Naruto did the same.
>>737007376He alters perception rather than reality.>"I've spent my whole life to achieve my dream of being a famous baseball player, but then I got really hurt in a car accident"Actually, you never wanted to be a baseball player>"I was raped by a black guy and impregnated, my husband will leave me when he finds out"It wasn't rape, you wanted it, and when your husband looks at your kid it'll look white to him.>"I'm devastated and wracked with guilt that my much more talented sister died instead of me"Hmm, tricky one, let's say you actually never had a sister, you were the talented one all along. Don't see how that could possibly backfire.
>>737007376>I alone am the moral arbiter for the entire human raceFuck I hate teen fanfic tier thinkers.
>>737007376I’d rather the whole world be miserable than live in a world where he is happy. Fuck that Jesus wannabe nerd.
>People actually feel inspired by misguided characters to pursue studies in the exact same fields TL where they fucked up or went off into the cesspool >P5bums hype this shit up like the second coming of christThem not playing their own games continues to go beyond being factual shitposts.
Maruki was such a good villain, atlus peaked there
>>737007870Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
>>737008658>atlus peaked thereENTER
He's why regular P5 was better than Royal.
>>737007870what about for those of us whom rape is our only option for sex?
>>737008713who?
Behold, the lawfag's ideal future for humanity.
>>737008865kill you’re self
>>737007376because there's no point to life without agency, the possibility of failure and the taste of defeat drive the spirit to move forward. his world is one of stillness were nothing grows, nothing is created
>>737008865Lucifer but lame
>>737008713the funny thing is loius probably could've just fixed things as the king
>>737007376Mouse Utopia experiement proves these guys don't think things through.
>>737009246he could've done a lot of things as king but his fatal flaw was he the games equivalent of
i did not think p5r was such an amazing game. in fact it struck me as the definition of style over substance
>>737008713You ever heard the Industrial Revolution?
>>737009321fucking post actually insta went through for oncehis fatal flaw was hes the game equivalent of brownoids who desperately want to be white
>>737008543That's how europeans think. Or more specifically the european left. Who do you think pushed age-gating and digital IDs in the first place? Digital cash too. Oh and jews.
>>737009485Hyper religious groups in the US of A as far as I'm concerned.
so Chaotic Good is the true path
>>737008915Looks awesome
>Would you still stand by all those things you said to Yaldabaoth if his powers were being used to your benefit by someone who wants the best for youActually a kino follow up and the first genuine story improvement made by a rerelease of a persona game.
>>737007376He was too radical about it, okayThe way you stop murder and rape is by telling people that it's wrong. Sure, we have been doing that for thousands of years and nothing changed, but who's to say that won't randomly change?
>>737009961But murder and rape rates have gone down. It's almost impossible to murder someone in a first world country and get off Scott free. Unless you're black but that's a different story.
>>737009378The dialogue repeats itself endlessly and the combat is easy to the point of frustration.
>>737007376Something something rape builds characterSomething something a child with a terminal stage of cancer should fight by his own
>>737009485We are the only ones holding companies accountable for anything thoughbeit
Good is meaningless without evil
This guy couldn't even fix some little girl's mental problems WHILE USING GOD-LIKE POWERS and he thinks he can fix the whole world.
>>737011773They did make it a point that Maruaki wasnt at full power yet which is why people were noticing the cracks. The team had to beat him before he ascended to true godhood.
>>737010104lmao only 50% of murders even go to trialgetting away with murder is a coinflip, a random retard attempting it has pretty good odds
The moral of persona 5 is that ryuji was right and people over the age of 30 dont deserve to have wills. The problem with maruki is that he is an adult which makes him wrong, much like how akechi deserves to be revived and escape from punishment for being a serial killer because he is a teenager.
>>737007692I never played Royal, did the expanded story ever touch on this? Always thought it was fucked up how the PT basically create a new, innocent persona for their targets and then saddle them with crippling amounts of guilt.
>>737011894>getting away with murder is a coinflip, a random retard attempting it has pretty good oddsNah, this is like seeing the "over half of marriages end in divorce!!" and thinking that means that you, personally, have a 50/50 chance. That's not how statistics work and that's also not what that statistic is saying.
>>737012264They only developed the guilt because their mind was changed in the first place.Most people whose hearts are changed just change how they're acting and move on with their lives, those who developed palaces were beyond some point of no return, hence the world shaking perspective shift when their shadow goes down.But no, the new story doesn't dwell on it either.
>>737012375retards get away with murder all the time. cops are overworked or incompetent and look for any excuse not to investigate.
>>737012264The original story also touched upon it, it's a big reason they stop doing what they're doing. They start seeing the consequences of their actions and then also see how evil people use their exact tools to achieve things not dissimilar to heart changes.The expanded story just hammers the point home by having an ostensibly good guy take their philosophy to its logical extreme.
>>737007376Because it was a lie. He was forcing the Lotus Flower/Matrix solution on everyone. Without struggle or strife, life cannot thrive or flourish. All he offered was an imaginary dream for everybody who lives to escape pain and suffering.He's a very well written and developed villain. But his ultimatum is just a half-measure short of being a tyrannical rule over the unwilling if it wasn't for how humble or cognizant of how wrong he is for forcing this on others.
>>737007376because it's through mass hallucination and we aren't really sure about the logistics behind itit's also all biased around one individuals idea of "no suffering" when identity death is a major issue for many people.
>>737009732>Would you still stand by all those things you said to Yaldabaoth if GREY MORALITYyawn
>>737012508You're watching too much TV
>>737012671Anon, get the fuck out of here with your competency about human growth, we don't want none of that here.
>>737008713>Nah bro, i was just insane the whole time>Time to kill everybody and start againIts incredible how such a simple villain can work extremely well if given the ample amount of presentation, build up and presence.
>>737012671>Without struggle or strife, life cannot thrive or flourish.t. Guy not struggling or strifing
No one should be trusted with the power of a god because no one is incorruptible. Sure, maybe the power won't corrupt him today, or tomorrow, or next year, but it'll happen eventually.
>>737008915this could be our reality and we don't even know.
>>737008713I did kind of respect how he was fully on board with his view even in the moments it backfired on him
>>737012671>Without struggle or strife, life cannot thrive or flourish.says who? wouldn't life would thrive a lot more if people weren't getting murdered or traumatized into suicide? seems like "struggle and strife are necessary" is something we say to cope because we are unable to eliminate struggle and strife
>>737008490Why do anti-Marukifags always have to lie?He clearly alters reality considering that Futaba's mom is alive and well.
>>737007376>tacked on shit after you defeated a GodThat's his problem.
>>737012772TV shows cops as infaillible and always solving the murder thoughbeit
>>737007509fpbp
>>737007376>I want all suffering to end, I will cure disease, murder, rape, war and famineHow was he in the wrong again?
>>737007376He indeed did nothing wrong.>b-but you can't have a single person decide what's best for society!!!why not?>But I-it's not real!!! it's a fantasy! a fake life! a dream!Not at all. In the setting of Persona 5, reality is the product of the collective unconscious, and it is quite maleable, as it was undergoing numerous alterarous in the span of a few hours when the PT argued with the holy grail. The world of Maruki is reality, whether you like it or not.
>one guy now has control over your life. He will allow to fuck as many hot women as you want, get rich, and generally get all your desires fulfilled in whatever manner you deem would be most satisfying to youvs>"humanity" as a whole votes on what kind of life you're allowed to lead. they decide you should be a chudcel and live mostly alone and be mostly miserable for your entire lifeJaps:>please give me the second option
This shit again.Maruki's endgame is a world he dictates the course of, so nobody tries to challenge themselves or face adversity and instead does whatever he thinks is best for them. This means everyone, not just you. You'd be happy but only because you are forced to accept whatever lot he decided to give you. Humanity would be reduced to docile cattle, if that's what you want then sincerely try to get therapy or something.
>>737007870
>>737007376He didnt fix Joker and make him a cute girl so he could understand why rape was wrong!
>>737008394This
>>737008394t. someone who doesn't deserve to be happy and is afraid someone might judge them for it
>>737013720But you're already forced to accept whatever lot life decides to give you. Shiho can't use her free will to get un-raped, little kids in warzones can't decide not to have bombs dropped on them, etc. Many things that happen to you are entirely outside your control, so why is it worse if those things are being controlled by someone who genuinely wants you to be happy as opposed to the cold, uncaring universe? Isn't "we simply have to accept suffering in life because we can't do anything about it" merely the same docile-cattle philosophy applied to the current world?
>>737013018He did show the phantom thieves preferential treatment in order to win them over to his side, but still no, it was not actually her mom, just like it was not actually Akechi.
>>737014946>but still no, it was [Headcanon]Cool, but I'll go with what the game shows.
>>737008713I would not mind more Reinhard von Lohengramm expys.
>>737007376>makes a girl date her stalker to make him happy>makes a guy give up on his passion and focus on something else
>>737014946>He did show the phantom thieves preferential treatment in order to win themthis part is objectively untrue because the bystander kid npc whose dog dies in the base game has her dog come back in third semester
>Get in ze pleasure pod, goyslave.>Yes, thank you master, I only exist for mind-numbing hedonism!
>>737014946The ending literally shows Ren/Joker sitting in the train, looking out lazily over the station platforms, then having his third eye flash and pick up Akechi as he walks out onto one of the platforms in the middle of the hustle and bustle of a stream of departing travelers.They don't show his face, but hey show the jacket sleeve of his arm, and the black glove. The one on the *other* hand than the glove Ren had lying in his lap and was sentimentally reminiscing over, just seconds earlier.It was the real Akechi.As for how they managed to pull that one off:Keep in mind that like Ren, Akechi has the power of the wild card. He just manifests it differently than Ren does. The fact that he has the wild card though, means he *also* has the World arcana - and thus the same ability that Ren has to make the impossible possible as manifest reality.Maruki's fuckery with Yaldi's vestigitial power merging the real and cognitive worlds enabled Akechi to come back to life in a 'fake' way as a cognition imprinted on the real world - but the World arcana would allow him to make it real, as long as he wants it badly enough. And on that matter, he says it best himself at one point: being in control of his own destiny is his number one desire; and nobody decides what happens to Akechi, but Akechi.
>>737007376Your life isn't going the way I want, you should let me tie you to a chair and drug you so I can use classical conditioning to fix you. I think I would really like you better if you let me change everything about you.
>>737015514Akechi was a giant faggot that I was totally unsympathetic towards.
>>737012949You ever meet people who've never struggled with anything in their life? They may as well already be lobotomized NPC yes men.
>>737009246I tried playing this game but the visuals are vomit inducing.
>>737013018That was not her mom, it was an illusion created by Maruki that simply always acted the way Futaba would expect.Akechi, through his force of will and connection to Persona already, was able to recognize that he was an illusion that was scripted to act the way Joker would expect.
>>737012905— Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
Are we seriously pretending Metaphor's writing was good?
>>737013286hes a puppet sadly
Suffering builds character. With stronger character, you can face greater suffering and build character even more. Think of it like an RPG.
>>737007643>>737007873I once read a book where one of the MC's got raped and it pissed me off so much. If reading it makes me realise just how lame rape is I can only imagine what getting raped will do to you
>>737015714>This illusion is tangible and perceptible by everyone around them, a splitting image of the real dealSounds like reality to me buddy, your semantics are irrelevant.
>>737015829Yeah
>>737016339It's addressed in the game by the NPCs walking around that many of them are very unhappy because other people suddenly earned things they genuinely worked towards their whole life.The illusion isn't for one person, it's brainwashing everyone else around into becoming accepting of whatever Maruki rules.
>>737007376All progress would stop and the human race would stagnate completely.
>ITT: everyone glosses over the fact that Maruki is holding people with unhappy fates as if they were hostages, daring the PTs to stop him if they want to make all these people around them miserable.He goes as low as to use Shiho to force Ann to accept his dream world, making Ann choose between her friend being raped and crippled OR everyone having free will again.
>>737016587But civilization tends to do better when people aren't being randomly raped or murderedCan't invent a cure for cancer if your entire family died in a car accident, or if you got kidnapped and murdered by the yakuza or whatever else
>>737007376because the writers have retarded free will and good requires evil logic
>>737016747In your hypothetical magical world, why would cancer exist at all? There would be no problems, nothing that needs to be solved, no need for innovation or progress.
>>737016697>hey I can make things better for everyone if you let me help>"no fuck you let us back into our shithole world full of murder again"somehow that makes him the bad guy? this seems like "holding people hostage" to you? ok lol
>>737007575>What exactly is the point of living if your personality, desires and dreams can be re-written on a whim because they even mildly interfered with someone else's experiences? Who gives a shit? Who the hell will be there to perceive these changes?>Or not even that, but you just give up on your goals because he decided they're too outlandish for you?What the fuck are my goals, did they come out of nowhere? Are they mine? Or is it just social pressure and being forced into a rat race from early on?>>737016587Define progress.Do keep in mind that people who yap about how suffering is le necessary are mostly first worlders who had never experienced hunger, high stress or back-breaking labour. They just believe that "the freedom to choose" (as if anyone has a say over his genes, family, country or its economic status) must be good because... Uhh...
>>737007376>gets bored >brings back disease, murder, rape, war and famine tenfold
That's what you get when a group of teens decide to play Judge, jury and executioner at the same time.P5 is such a dumbass game.
>>737016842Isn't the point of progress to make things better? Why would you be mad about the fact that cancer doesn't exist?
>>737016897Actually play the game and listen to the NPC conversations.Maruki's world changes from day-to-day, with people gaining their dream jobs but losing their wife because some other guy really wanted to be with her (and Maruki sided with the lonely guy). It's no different than if God determined everything based on whoever was the loudest and cried the hardest; so anyone who tries hard and earns things will suddenly lose to people who just wished hard for the success they never tried to earn.
>Umm actually fuck you, said the teen.>And the phantom thieves beated him using the power of JUSTICE!
>>737016992Bro literally created a dictatorship of incels and I'm supposed to side with the PTs?
>>737017048The dictator is Maruki.He's the only one who determines who gets what and when.If he doesn't like you as much as another incel, you won't get what you want. Too bad!
>>737016992Maybe that guy didn't love his wife and will be with a wife he actually loves for real this time? idk
Why do Persona fans not play the games that they claim to love? 3, 4 and 5 share this problem. The rare times 2's games come up it is to bring up cool Hitler.
>>737017130That's not what he does. He's clearly shown to care about people. His entire characterization is that he's compassionate to a fault. You're just making shit up to make your argument sound better
>>737017132They're kids (if they had any) cease to exist, no matter what they wanted out of life to be happy.Do you get it now?
>>737017194PlayTheGame,ListenToNPCs
A better written counterargument would be, Maruki isnt competent enough, hes not a perfect being to create such an ideal world without rape, murder, suffering, etc. humans can only make the world marginally better. by having an absolute he turns delusional and tyrant. it has NOTHING to do with free will or saying suffering good
>>737017203Get what?>(if they had any)So he's evil because some hypothetical kids, that you're not even sure existed, aren't born? But what if some other hypothetical kids are born in their place? Wouldn't it be evil to prevent those from being born by stopping him then?
>>737017236erm, but we're listening to you rn tho??
>>737015618To be honest that doesn't sound so bad, free will is overrated, half of people fail with it so it's objectively bad.
>>737017236>girl dates guy>guy develops a mental disorder>girl leaves him>in the world where guy never developed a mental disorder, girl didnt leave him for his mental disorder, because he doesnt have oneits rape, is what it is.
>>737017415Who gets to decide that? Someone with free will and means, with your logic is objectively bad.
>>737017494Whoever gets to decide it, is the one to decide.
>>737007376the road to hell is paved with good intentions
>>737007376>rapeI dont remember seeing him in revelations
>>737017194why is Shido still in jail instead of being the prime minister if he cares about everyone
>>737017460All those unraped people aren't going to rape themselves when the world goes back to normal either
