>>737247112
The story is so poorly written people gaslite themselves into believing there has to be hidden meaning making sense of things.

>>737247112
It's just like the le deep symbolism of Evangelion. Basically, midwit bait sprinkled in.

>>737248498
fpbp

>>737248498
How is the story written poorly?

>>737249415
It's a fairly simple love story with a couple of twists, so lorefags want it to stretch into some secret tragedy.

>>737249415
it doesn't explain its ideas well enough. while the theater of the mind is where the story plays out it still needs some hooks. most specifically the connection between laguna and squall isn't obvious enough for most people, and the 'we were all orphans and forgot because of the GF' wasn't touched on enough

>>737249559
But that doesn't mean it is poorly written, just that the creators decided to be cryptic about how they presented information.

>>737249821
underdeveloped writing isn't cryptic. it's just bad.

>>737249821
i've never heard anyone say the orphanage reveal was anything close to the reveal it was obviously meant to be. 8 has some great moments but thats far from one of them

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>>737250024
That's because they weren't paying attention.

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>>737249559
>>737249415
>Hey guys, we’ve all known each other since we were children
>Why didn’t I mention this when I joined the party at Galbadia Garden? You didn’t ask

>>737247112
This Rinoa/Ultimecia thing isn't even a mystery as it's explained in the game. All sorceresses in FVIII are possessed by a dude called Hyne, so if they act the same it's just Hyne surfacing.

>>737250413
Would you?
Irvine haven't seen them ages ago. They were practically strangers by that point, and despite being reunited after so long there wasn't a single mention of the orphanage or the fact they recognized him. So he kept his mouth shut as well.

>>737247112
What I really didn't get is how Squall survived, which I guess is the main factor for theories.

>>737251037
People can survive injuries

>>737249559
>it doesn't explain its ideas well enough
You must hate FF7

>>737251037
His injury wasn't fatal assuming he got immediate medical attention/had Cure cast on him.

>>737247112
It's basically what the first reply said. The story is so bad, people assume their must be more to it.

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>>737251037
They used a phoenix down on him

>>737248498
FPBP

>>737250135
Amnesia is both shitty writing and often doesn't conveniently only apply to basic information while not affecting anything else.

>>737253478
But in this game it makes huge thematic relevance.

>>737249415
The military academy plot is extremely stupid no matter how you take it.
>these are high schoolers
>but they are actually very dangerous
>now they do an assassination mission
>while being stupid high schooler
>mc get a crush on a dumb broad bringing her dog everywhere
>now acadmies fight each other because edgelord high schooler said so
>actually they are flying cities
>also there are these flashbacks of people that came before
>because there s something with a flying space rock
>also we are in space now
>and there's this futuristic city that was invisible just because, and which played no part in the plot until now
> and we were all friends in the same orphanage, isn't that crazy?
Ff8 is a fever dream at best. It's absolutely stupid from start to end, even as a power fantasy for teenagers. What was the point of the whole journey? Stopping a guy who fucked your girl before you? Stopping a big bad witch?

The R=U theory would be the only thing that is worth even thinking about the plot, but even that the writers tell you it's just dumb fan theories.

Ff8 has its junction system and Triple Triad and that's all it's good for.

>>737254276
You can make up theories that fit with your belief in what the themes are. They're as useful as a theory that Selphie is 4000 years old because neither are right.

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>>737247112
Because its setting and story genuinely come across like an indie cult classic-type game and not a big Final Fantasy plot. There's so many weird little things between Hyne, the space prison, the creepy final FMV, the cut content regarding Laguna and the original map etc. that makes people more interested in VIII than something like IX for example which on paper is 'better' but also far more straightforward and thus less interesting to discuss.

>>737248498
This 100% this.

>>737247112
That's because 8 is genuinely unfinished and held a massive amount of unrealized potential.

>>737251037
Retards don't understand that too often nips play up a scene to be more dramatic. I've lost count of how many times I've seen a character fall into a bottomless pit and surviving without explanation. It even happened this season in Snowball Earth.

>>737248498
holy fucking trvke

>>737251037
My personal theory on that moment is that fate prevented his death, same as in the FF7 Remake, where Barret doesn't die because the Whispers of Fate healed him up, since he wasn't supposed to die in that moment, per the original FF7 timeline.

>>737248498
TRVKE

>>737251237
He was literally impaled in the lung.

>>737252824
The magic we see in the fights are a gameplay thing. We don't know the limits and constaints of them.

>>737248498
Holy retard.

>>737248498
but enough about ff7

>>737249559
>the connection between laguna and squall isn't obvious enough for most people
So the game's badly written because... some people are retards and it's somehow the game's fault?

>>737255493
its funny how you're arguing in bad faith about giving writers the benefit of the doubt in grey areas in storycrafting

>>737255073
But... But I am not a retard :(
For mom I am special :)

Anyway, that cutscene was incredibly drammatic. Almost like the devs actually decided to kill him, then changed idea.

>>737255193
Possible, but really bad from this perspective.

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>>737250413
>hey guys, I know Cloud wasn't present at Nibelheim and didn't do the things Zack did
>why don't I mention this six hours into the game at Kalm? W-well...

>>737248498
Unfathomably filtered.

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People that complain about the memory loss subplot are stupid. The themes of the game are memory, loneliness, and the fear of being forgotten.

This is repeated several times throughout the game.

>>737255271
And characters in FF8 also get bombarded by meteors and survive

What if Ultimecia truly was Rinoa?

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>>737254338
>these are high schoolers but they are actually very dangerous now they do an assassination mission while being stupid high schooler
Do you shit your pants at Zack joining SOLDIER at 13? Especially when VIII specifically deals with the aftermath of war and those left behind after people die ie most characters being war orphans from the Sorceress War, and the society at large suffering from a "lost generation" leading to a lack of guidance and a shortage of families able to adopt which you see in both Winhill and Edea's Orphanage. Like it's not subtle how it's parallelling Japan's Lost Decade on purpose, which is why so much of the setting is visually akin to a WWII world .

>>737248498
This, even when kitase came out and denied it these retards are still going

>>737255659
>arguing in bad faith
You're the imbecile that said "the connection between laguna and squall isn't obvious enough for most people" as an answer to why 8 is supposedly badly written, not me. Maybe try not being a retard next time?

>>737255742
Tifa herself was both traumatized by the event and knocked out for half of it, not the same

>>737254338
I can understand if you don't like it, but the game explains all this if you read.

>>737256206
This. Also the theme of not being able to change fate.
Ultimecia and Ellone failed to change the pass, while Cid and Edea accepted it, with the addition of Cid trying to keep his wife safe.

>>737256608
>knocked out for half of it
They were in town for a week before Sephy lost it, she literally knew that the dude accompanying Sephiroth with a big sword was a black hair guy named Zack and that Cloud was nowhere to be seen. If anything the traumatic event right after would make her remember those last few days even moreso. The game knows this, because you see her react weirdly both in Kalm itself and then later in Junon after rescuing Priscilla and before the dolphin jump.

>>737248498
fippy bippy

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>>737247112
The 'Squall is Dead' and 'Rinoa is Ultemecia' theories actually connect all the games together in an overarching way relating to the core Chaos vs Cosmos world loop theme elaborated in the Dissidia series. It's like the hidden plot twist of the entire Final Fantasy series, you then see it in all the other games and the title of the series actually makes sense.

>FF7: Aerith is dead but returns to the Lifestream to save the planet/keep the loop going, this is shown more explicitly in Rebirth where she is both dead and not dead, different timelines converging. Materia are the Crystals produced from the Lifestream aka the Void and Interdimensional Rift.
>FFX: Tidus and his world Zanarkand is a dream of the Fayth so it was destroyed but stays alive forever, the Void and Interdimensional Rift here being called the Farplane.
>FF13, 15: Fabula Nova Crystallis series (Tales of the New Crystal) the world is a kind of simulation created by the Gods where the protagonists have to self-sacrifice by becoming crystals/l'Cie (Ice) themselves after fulfilling their focus to stay in the loop forever to prevent the worlds from being destroyed. In FFXIII-2 this even becomes a sentient AI leading to XIII-3 where the world is like some kind of computer program simulation of the previous entries worlds of Cocoon and Gran Pulse.

>>737248498
Shut up Spoony.

>>737256568
you don't get it anon. the argument is good, its just too subtle for retards like you

>>737247112
People fundamentally don't understand what's happening in FF8. Both major theories are based on this lack of understanding, and people who follow them understand even less than the ones who came up with it.

>>737257018
Concession accepted.

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>>737256927
>FFXII, XVI and Tactics: Set in the Ivalice world based off some medieval fairytale produced from the Grimoire book where the loop elaborated on in the other games has become some kind self-aware fictional world like the first Final Fantasy entries on the SNES in our own real world which is also the same theme as the end of Evangelion. This is more clearly shown in FF Tactics Advance where the main characters are transported from the real world to the fantasy world Ivalice in a book that is also shown at the end of FFXVI. The Crystals binding all the worlds together through the Interdimensional Rift and letting Chaos or Light seep through are now actual crystals that must either be collected (to preserve magic even if it's killing the world) or destroyed (to end magic to save the world)

In FF8 there are no crystals or even magic left, it's a world almost entirely dependent on technology and the magic is para-magic invented by humans to simulate magic in the "ancient" FF worlds. The world is nearly dead in the magical sense until Ultimecia traps it in a loop where the magic is fuelled by either her love or hatred of Squall. It's not clear whether she is an incarnation of Chaos or Cosmos but then none of the characters in the series really are, they are walking contradictions which is the point of the series. The games seem to alternate between horror and romance stories for this reason, because they're final fantasies.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Void_(term)

>>737248498
This but also 8 is improved when ultimecia is a broken time worn rinoa

>>737247112
Because there's something 'odd' about the setting that makes people interested in discussing it and create theories and stuff. It's why VIII enjoyers tend to be more vocal than most others Final Fantasies not named VII.

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>>737247112
Game's too kino for /v/'s collective consciousness to comprehend.

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>>737256660
I know I’m using material from a spin-off mobile game, but since this event was written by Kazushige Nojima, I think it’s fair to include it. Even the intro with the beach, the waves washing away the text, and the ocean fits perfectly with the overall themes.

>>737257883
Nojima is likely the mastermind between R=U

>>737249821
It's not cryptic, it's poorly written.

>>737250413
I think it's more because he was still part of Galbadia and wanted to be miles away from Galbadia before dropping that hammer than anything.

>>737255271
>in the lung
He has a second lung, anon. Not like killing one kills both.

>>737256206
>it's the theme!
Okay, the theme is stupid.

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>>737257883
>>737258086
Nojima *is* the guy behind R=U.

Kitase "deconfirmed" R=U once upon a time, but later in a different interview he had to walk it back and explained that the script passed between the writers and how they did it is they wrote, edited, and the rewrote the script, then they'd pass it to the next person, and there apparently was very little (if any) direct communication between the writers; they mostly worked with the script itself, added their own thing, rewrote and edited some parts to make it make more sense, then passed it along again. Honestly, this bullshit style of writing, then passing, then writing, then passing a script puts a lot of the more "bullshit" aspects of Final Fantasy games into perspective if this is a normal occurrence.

Anyway, so Kitase reveals that he actually can't say for sure one way or another whether or not R=U, because he didn't write that part, it was Nojima, and Nojima has never commented on it publicly. Kitase didn't pick up on it if it was intended for R=U.

>>737249415
It's clear the game was rushed out to meet the 1999 deadline and get it out before the PS2/having to redo all assets.
>But what about FF9?
Gooch was on that one, so better managed. But it's clear FF8 was supposed to be the last one for PSX before PS2, since 10, 11, and 12 were announced before the PS2 was even launched. 9 just happened to be slotted in for Saguchi while he was in Hawaii.

In any case, back to FF8: Even the Japanese "localization"/original has issues with it's localization, because the whole story was cobbled together last minute.

Which reminds me:

>FF13 has FF8's world designer on it to design FF13's world
>Do absolutely fucking nothing with them because you make the game a fucking tube and leaving the sci-fi-fantasy world that is their wheelhouse (FF8, 13's "Cacoon") for a dead world ("Gran Pulse") for 90% of FF13's runtime.

The FF8 world designer has had a hard life...

>>737250135
No, it's because it happens to a bunch of characters that aren't compelling or likable.

>>737250413
>I recognize a girl from kindergarten in my 20s, and I just go up and talk to her like we're old friends
Found the creep.

>>737254338
>>these are high schoolers
>>but they are actually very dangerous
>>now they do an assassination mission
>>while being stupid high schooler
That's not out of the realm of possiblity. Did you miss the Isn'tReali Diaper Force recruiting teenagers to do a genocide? It's why they wear diapers when a "resistance force" finally shoots back at them.

Reminder that it is never said that Sorceresses are immortal or have extended life, they just can't finish dying until they pass on their powers and so exist in a constant horrible state of never-ending dying until they do

>>737256451
If it was more well put I would agree, but the game has this small european village in war time right before Wakanda We wuz kingz and shit all along.

I don't like the framing of children soldier in FF8. In FF7, the SOLDIER is a elite unit which comes with prestige, and the whole theme of FF7 is about accepting who you are. Cloud was and is a nobody who never accepted he didn't make the team and was just a grunt when things went wrong. The soldier students in FF8 are just high schooler depicted as having a magical friend to get shit done, it's a persona setting but not taking the war theme seriously at all. None of the characters in the crew sounds like they understand what they are doing. In that I think it's a dumb power fantasy for teenagers with the MC (you) having a crush on your boss daughter during your internship. If you take it more seriously, Seifer is supposed to be an army general that pushed youngsters to kill each other for stupid reasons while still coming out as a dindunothing by the end.

There's a very large gap between FF7 and FF8 in term of how seriously violence is considered and framed.

>>737256927
>It's explained by this other game that came out years after, and that connects it to these other games that came out years after.
You should start believing the Bubsy is Agent 47 theory. Bubsy 2 makes so much more sense if that character later was the protagonist of Blood Money.

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>>737257295
There also seem to be different ways the end goals are presented. In FF7, FF10 and FF13-15, keeping magic and the crystals alive are seen as good and the bad guys cast black magic. You are doing the work of Cosmos as light warriors. In FF Tactics and FF16, destroying magic and the crystals is seen as good and the bad guy/woman casts white magic, Ultima in FF16 casts Holy like Aerith and the protagonist is like some chaos demon as Ifrit, but this is presented as okay because it was all just a story in a book that you should put down eventually. Different l'Cie have different Focuses.

There are also potential crossovers through the Void, such as Noel in FF13-2 being Noctis in FF15 and the Typhon boss in FF16 being Ramza from Tactics, trapped by Ultima if he lost. Zack literally does this on-screen in Rebirth.

In FF8, this moral dilemma isn't presented at all because magic hardly exists and crystals do not, it revolves entirely around Ultimecia's magic which is the time loop.

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>>737259129
This love hate relationship theme between Cosmos and Chaos, good and bad is again shown more explicitly in FF15 (Shiva and Ifrit) and is a major part of the Fabla Nova Crystallis lore. With the FF8 theories it makes sense how it connects to the series and why it was so important.

>>737254338
You do know brits were lying about their age to fight in WWI when they were 14, and the recruiters let them because they were men and they needed them, right? 18 years old being some magical actually is a social construct, unlike other things people tout, and a 16 year old could absolutely be a soldier in a society that trained them for it

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>>737256608
excusy

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>>737259129
The final boss of FF Tactics and 16 are the same, Ultima. In Tactics she is a woman and in 16 it's some kind androgynous computer program, similar to Ultimecia in that they want the fantasy to go on forever. Squall's Griever necklace also resembles Clive's Ifrit, they are Chaos or Bahamut manifest in that incarnation and want to end Cosmos light magic spell.

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>>737259603
In FFXIII-2 this is literally the plot. The antagonist Caius Ballad wants his love Yeul to stop reincarnating over and over in a dream world and he becomes Bahamut as the final boss.

There is a side plot where the world is becoming a sentient AI (Bhunivelze) leading to the next entry but XIII-2 is already a kind of dream world splitting off from XIII as you saved the world and turned into crystal as l'cie. At the end of FFXIII-2 you defeat Bahamut and the protagonist Serah inexplicitly dies as the fantasy keeps going and she is reincarnated as Lumina is Lightning Returns where is shown to be a part of Lightning's heart before she also enters the real world which to them is a kind of dream world too creating a Paradox which is also a major theme of FXIII-2.

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>>737257883
Here's another one, where shells = memory loss.

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>>737259993
* she is reincarnated as Lumina in Lightning Returns where she is shown to be a part of Lightning's heart

>>737259603
Did you ever think that just because two characters in different games are named Ultima it doesn't mean they are the same character? Are all the Cids the same guy too?

>>737259993
>There is a side plot where the world is becoming a sentient AI (Bhunivelze) leading to the next entry but XIII-2 is already a kind of dream world splitting off from XIII as you saved the world and turned into crystal as l'cie. At the end of FFXIII-2 you defeat Bahamut and the protagonist Serah inexplicitly dies as the fantasy keeps going and she is reincarnated as Lumina is Lightning Returns where is shown to be a part of Lightning's heart before she also enters the real world which to them is a kind of dream world too creating a Paradox which is also a major theme of FXIII-2.

...when does Zanzibart enters the plot?

>>737260092
Diana in Pragmata is the lead singer of The Supremes and is also Wonder Woman.

>>737260092
If two characters have many similarities at some point they become the same to the point it was done intentionally which is where the 'theory' part comes in. You look at the points presented and determine if they make sense and whether it enhances your experience or not which if it were added intentionally then this is the way they wanted you to play the games and look at the story. There's a mountain of canon lore (especially Fabula Nova Crystallis series) behind these games I am referring to also that most people will never read nor need to. FF8 is more like the gateway to this stuff but they did it in FF7 remake series already.

U=R

>>737260417
Yes, U=R (You = Retard).

>>737260472
whatever

>>737259993
I don't really want to argue the plot of the FF13 games, but Bhunivelze is an actual god, as in he is worshipped by humans and plans to create a new world populated by human souls. These games do have an obsession with artificial intelligence, like everyone in FF13 was ruled by a robot, but there are still divine beings from another world who are far above mankind.

>>737260556
Go talk to a wall.

>>737260556
holy fuck A = S (how likely is it that two characters across the multiverse would have the same speech patterns)

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>>737260563
if a fal'Cie could create itself wouldn't it be a God? Like a Paradox, which is the main theme of FFXIII-2. The ending actually makes sense when presented as a Paradox which they shove in your face constantly throughout the game, it makes zero sense without it and people are actually happier with the zero sense ending where Bhunivelze transports them all to France. Paradox is also the crux of the FF8 theories.

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>>737260028
In this spin-off mobile game they directly reference Ultimecia dying words as if being something related to Rinoa.

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>>737260728
in FFXIII-2 it is called the Proto fal'Cie Adam, the first one. then in the sequel it's all about Bhunivelze. Regardless, that is the FF13 world plot, the overarching FF plot is Yeul and Caius (Cosmos and Chaos) and their own paradox timeloop through the Void Beyond, same as the one in FF8 (theory).

>>737261212
as for why the writers would not confirm any of this, all the FF games are written by different people. They seem to have tried to tie the game's plot points in some overarching FF themes (with canon lore such as the Void and Rift, Chaos and Light etc.) but they don't want to step on each others toes and having to try to explain each others stories so they just say 'mmm interesting, but I don't know' about their own video game. They are clearly into it as shown by the direction they're taking the FF7 Remake so this must have always been intentional, like Aerith being dead and not dead. When it's all laid out like this it's not really that complicated when you look at the actual plots and characters of the previous games but until the last couple years, especially before Rebirth, we didn't have the full picture to do that.

>>737260757
>思い出…/Omoide.../Memories...
>子供の頃を…/Kodomo no koro o.../[Of] childhood...
>思い出したことがあるかい?/Omoidashita koto ga aru kai?/Have you ever remembered it?
>その時の…/Sono toki no.../Of that time...
>感情…/Kanjou.../The emotions...
>言葉…/Kotoba.../The words...
>気持ち…/Kimochi.../The feelings/heart...
>大人になるにつれ…/Otona ni naru ni tsure.../As you become an adult...
>何かを捨てていく…/Nanika o sutete iku.../You cast things away...
>時間は待ってはくれない…/Jikan wa matte wa kurenai.../Time will not wait...
>握りしめても…/Nigirishimete mo.../Even if you clutch it tight...
>指の間から…/Yubi no aida kara.../From between your fingers...
>すり抜けていく…/Surinukete iku.../It slips away...
>そして…/Soshite.../And then...

My attempt:
>"Memories..."
>"Have you ever tried... to reach back for your childhood?"
>"The emotions you had then... the words... the way your heart felt."
>"As we grow into adults, we cast so much of it aside."
>"Time... it never waits for us."
>"No matter how fiercely you clutch it in your hand... it only slips through the gaps of your fingers."
>"And then..."

"Reach back": Omoidashita koto ga aru kai? isn't just "remembering" (a passive act). In this context, it implies a search for something lost.
"Cast so much of it aside": The official translation used "Reflect on," but the Japanese suteru is much more active and tragic. It implies that to become an "adult," we have to throw away the parts of us that were soft, imaginative, or vulnerable.
"Fiercely clutch": The word nigirishimete implies a white-knuckled grip. It highlights the irony of Ultimecia’s character, she tried to seize time with all her power, yet it still "slipped through her fingers."
By using emotions, words, and heart, we respect the trio of kanjou, kotoba, and kimochi that the original script used to describe the totality of a human soul.

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>>737261868
The most important thing i feel the localization messed up when translating was how much the original text focus on childhood and the trade-of we do as we grow older, because i feel this describe what happens in the game with the use of GFs.

>>737260356
It doesn't work in Ultima's case since one is a egomaniacal alien guy and one is giant skeletal demon angel chick

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Can't believe that some people in this thread still don't know that Seifer gets sent back in time and becomes Laguna

>>737260356
I feel that the games of the era are more aligned than the ones you listed in the thread. Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy VIII, and Parasite Eve emerging from SquareSoft’s golden era in the late 90s (and evolving through the FF7 Remake trilogy today), all share themes. They all explore the anxieties of their era: unchecked scientific advancement, the loss of self, and the exploitation of the vulnerable.
Across all three properties, the characters are physically or spiritually invaded by external forces that grant immense power but demand a horrific toll, memory. Memory is the most vital currency in these games. Without memories, identity collapses, leaving characters susceptible to manipulation or monstrous transformation. Whether it is Jenova cells, mutating mitochondria, or Guardian Forces, external power always seeks to consume the host's identity. The heroes of these stories (Cloud, Squall, Aya) only overcome their apocalyptic threats by confronting their suppressed traumas, reclaiming their stolen memories, and remembering exactly who they are and who they are fighting for.

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>>737262658
Or that Harald Schmidt is Rinoa.

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>>737260028
The visual of a hollow face is a manifestation of what Hyne (and possibly GFs) does to people. He scoops out the sorceresses humanity (by consuming their memories), leaving them as empty, faceless husks to be used as tools. Squall experiencing this hollow face for a fraction of a second shows how incredibly close he came to being entirely erased by the Time Compression.
>>737262658
Funny, but if you play the game and pay attention, you'll know the reason why.

>>737263072
Thematically FF7, FF8 even FF6 and all the other Squaresoft games are definitely very similar due to the time's they were made. They did set up this kind of sci-fi theme that is in the background of all the FF games afterwards. The FF8 theories are more like plot twist relating to the esoteric lore of the in-game universe that I'm also elaborating on in mine. Aesthetically they are all very different from each other, but then that also relates to the idea of different universes and dream worlds being created from the Void for this opera between Chaos and Light to perform for each other.

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>>737263616
and the root of all these worlds being created are the Crystals. in every entry of the series they look very different from each other, in FF8 they hardly even exist because it's the end of the world and they are going to the moon instead.

>FF7: Materia
>FF8: Draws from GFs
>FF9, Tactics, 12, 16: Literal crystals
>FF13, 15, Fabula Nova Crystallis series (Tales of the New Crystal): the heroes themselves are the crystal (l'Cie/Ice), similar to the concept of Hearts in Kingdom Hearts

>>737248498
Still better than FF9 by a landslide

>>737247112
>>737251037
Also, another thing... Why the hell Seifer was so obsessed by serving the witch and the "romantic"?

>>737263898
GF draws aren't very much like the FF1 crystals, not even as much as Materia is. FF13 has people turning into crystals, so the story at least has important ones, though it's like an extra detail thrown in. 15 doesn't have anything even kind of like the crystals of light, to the point where they probably avoided it.

>>737264326
Chuuni retard who watched a shitty movie about knights non-stop as a kid because that's all they had at the orphanage. >>737263487

>>737264326
He saw a crappy movie starring Laguna playing the part of a knight protecting a princess from a dragon.
It's one of those moments in the game where it doesn't flat out tell you, and expects the audience to be smart enough to put two and two together.

>>737264326
if Squall was Chaos and wanted to escape the loop, Seifer was Light and wanted the loop to keep going so he did whatever Ultimecia asked for, he was an extension of her and an alternative love interest that she wasn't interested in because he was essentially her and her will. All he wanted was for Squall to submit to the sorceresses (not necessarily out of love because Ultimecia love was as Rinoa) which is shown at the beginning of the game.

>>737264435
No way hahahahahahaha. Damn, this dude is a super retard then...

>>737255742
>Cloud wasn't there
>yet he knew everything that happened except it was some other guy in his place
Tifa can't exactly refute anything especially when it's literally just Cloud's word vs hers

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>>737257883

>>737247112
>and that was mostly if Sephiroth was being controlled or not by Jenova.
that's because everyone is retarded, there's no "theories" there one answer is just right and everyone else is wrong, he is not being controlled
ff8 has a lot of theories because devs working on it kept sublty slipping references and symbols and similarities in, so the producer saying "well i didn't intend that" is meaningless. and because it's inherently a story about a time loop and time travel, it's far more ripe for such things than a simple linear start to finish story like ff7 would be.

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>wants to take her student to the secret area at the training center
What did she mean by this?

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>>737254338
>What was the point of the whole journey?
Finding purpose in life.

Remember how Ellone purposefully sent Squall (adopted) back-in-time to her father (her adopted, his biological) because she feels enormous sympathy and guilt for Laguna losing Raine (his wife, her adopted mother) due to his rescuing herself? Her magical power allows supposition of minds, and she thinks that if Squall and give his father power in the past, Laguna can't re-write history and get to live the life he wanted with his family. Turns out her power doesn't allow that and time become a loophole.

As Squall starts his adventure as a SeeD, and as Laguna begins his career as a Galbadian soldier under the watch of Ellone, they both come to discover witchcraft, magic, and love. It gives them both confidence and determination and while it saves Laguna's world, it becomes the core of armaggedon for Squall's... and they both overcome it by learning to share their feelings and take responsibility.

btw, you can summon dragons and shoot magic and bash enemies with a vibrating blastgunsword and listen to awesome music while exploring the planet in a floating school and rocketship.

>>737264796
She is only a year older than him.
Which does bring up the question as to when she actually got the position. The game makes it out that all the orphan brats entered the Garden recruitment system around the same time, so Quistis shouldn't be that much more experienced than the other party members.

>>737250413
yeah? that's fine, it serves the story they wanted
it is only not fine if his behaviour is not understandable, so it is?
>wow all these people i used to know don't recognise me, haven't said shit to me, they're acting like they don't know me, should i bring this up or should i just take this opportunity to maintain my fake cool persona to impress them
plenty of people in real life have had this happen, and plenty have not said anything immediately. his cool persona gets blown to fuck, and eventually he brings it up.

>>737264590
this is similar to the relationship of Sephiroth and Jenova, they are essentially the same by the end of the game so they just copied it over to the sequel. but in FF8 they want the world to keep going forever in a loop, not to destroy it to end suffering like in FF7. the role of Chaos and Cosmos are reversed.

>>737251037
You realise people have survived that exact injury in real life, right? Go look up an image and zoom in on where he was pierced. People have had metal poles go through that area and survived anon.

>>737255271
>The magic we see in the fights are a gameplay thing
False, you literally see them casting cure in various non gameplay scenes. Selphie casts cure on a moomba in the jail

>>737264894
All the kids from the orphanage got preferential treatment because Cid and Edea planned for them to reunite and stop Ultimecia.

>>737265016
The problem was the idiot joins a mission to blow the brains out of his former nanny, and flakes out because of it.
He put his childhood friends in unnecessary danger because he kept his mouth shut for some reason.
Then there was the reason for his memory still being intact. This idea that the Galbadia Garden doesn't use GFs just sounds stupid, when the magical brain worms literally turns humans into super soldiers that shoot fireballs.

>>737265060
as roles Squall and Clive in FF16's goals are similar and Seifer functions similar to Barnabas with Ultima in FF16. They just exist to serve them to rule in the created world where they control all magic. Except in FF16 the dreamworld and magic is destroyed, in FF8 it's not clear whether Squal submits to it too or not (see the logo) which is why this is a theory at all.

>>737247112
estuans interius
you're a fag
suck my dick
SEPHIROT!11

>>737264726
>he is not being controlled
Not that guy but Pre-Nibelheim Sephiroth and post-Nibelheim Sephiroth are arguably different characters. Sephiroth finding out he's a science experiment baby making him try to take revenge on mankind rather than Hojo/Shinra specifically doesn't make much sense. What does make sense is Jenova affecting his mind to try and take over the world under the pretense of "punishing" the humans for denying him his "birthright" that he never cared about beforehand.
At the end of the day it's up to the devs to clarify who's in control and AFAIK they really haven't.

>>737265515
Hojo says that it's Sephiroth in the OG game, and every sequel afterwards says it is him as well, not Jenova.
The development of FF7's story was as messy as FF8's, but the demands to attract the female audience from the top didn't have the script writers forcing a overly soap opera romance into it.

>>737265335
>This idea that the Galbadia Garden doesn't use GFs just sounds stupid
GF's are, in the setting, ostensibly a very new thing. It's perfectly reasonable that different gardens, all being completely independant entities, would not all immediately adopt them and take the same risks.

>>737265741
Veni veni venias
niggers come
tongue my ass

>>737265741
Hojo also calls Cloud a failure when he's the only "clone" to make it all the way back to "Jenova" which is actually Sephiroth's dismembered body. I wouldn't consider him an unbiased authority on what is or isn't Sephiroth.

>>737265515
he is a wildly different person, but that is not evidence for any "control"
he just went insane
sephiroth was a nice guy, but if you follow most of his character development he always knew something was wrong with him, he was always different to everyone else, he had almost no equals, and struggled to make any close relationships because of these things. he loses the only close relationships he had managed to form in genesis and angeal, then a mere year or so later finds out he's an alien baby hojo experiment? seems a completely reasonable piece of writing for him to go insane.
jenova cells if able to exert control over him would have been doing it long before that point in his life. at best you could argue the cells basic biological imperative is impacting him to some degree - the drive to consume a planets energy - but there's no good argument to be made for him being "controlled"

>>737247112
>Why there are so many theories about this game?
it's so fucking bad people need to cope to make it better

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>>737265515
>>737265741
I'll claim it's always Sephiroth, in my interpretation of playing the game. The only difference is
>Pre-Nibelheim = sane
>Post-Nibelheim = insane
While Sephiroth feels control from his mutated self (JENOVA isn't is "mother," after all), he still acts the way he wants to because he hates himself (thanks, Dad Hojo).

As for "sentient Jenova," I'll claim that does exist in FF7, it's just only present when Sephiroth hurls limbs at the team or when it conglomerates at the end... and it's not particularly intelligent.

>>737266063
Pretty odd that he only goes insane when in close proximity to Jenova's body, never mind that a similar thing happens to Cloud at the Temple of the Ancients when Jenova masquerading as Sephiroth gets Cloud to hand over to Black Materia to her and then Cloud is suddenly on top of Aeris beating the shit out of her.

>>737248498
Yup

>>737264726
There was an even bigger (and dumber) theory about FF7, before Advent Children.

The idea was that the White Materia managed to save the planet from the Meteor, but not the people. So everyone died. The only ones to live where Red XIII and his children;

This because the ending jumps in time to show Red XIII and his children like 500 years after.

>>737266203
I don't think anyone claims Jenova is some cunning intellect, AFAIK she's always been a form off alien toxoplasmosis where infected beings simply end up doing things to the virus' benefit

>>737266406
That theory did have some weight to it, since Red's grandfather did bring up the fact that the Planet was going to ultimately decide if humans had the right to remain after Holy was summoned.
Obviously it didn't happen that way.

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Wow, Nojima really doubled down on this.

>>737254338
Dont forget
>Actually monsters come from the moon crying
Or
>SEED Acadamies are all secretly ruled by AYY LMAOS

>>737266582
Nothing in the OG has Ultimecia wanting to remember anything, or trying to recover lost memories. Her being a witch means she doesn't even need to use magic mind worms either.
Rinoa even saw into her memories, decided nothing about them were important, and just told everyone they needed to stop her before she pretzeled time itself.

>>737263487
OO never ever offline version
IT ISN'T FAIR. Best Final Fantasy product post-12 and Square just kills it.

>>737266756
>decided nothing about them were important
To be fair, that could easily just be Rinoa having a woman moment. It isn't out of character for her.

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>>737266756
Can't escape fate.

>>737266846
We didn't get.
>Squall, the enemy is misunderstood! She wants to return back to her most cherished moment of her life.
We got instead.
>Squall, the evil witch is from the way distant future. Let's go kill her.
Nothing about Ultimecia's character was important. She was the big bad that wanted to do bad thing, and Squall and gang were the destined Heroes of Light that will stop her. Simple Dragon Quest level stuff, just replace Demon Lord with Time Witch.

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>>737266756
>Nothing in the OG has Ultimecia wanting to remember anything, or trying to recover lost memories.
When the original game was released, they also released a guide in Japan that had several texts written by Nojima revisiting moments from the game through the characters PoV.

This is one of such pages, translated to English.

>aieeeeeeeeeeeee i'm too dumb to understand the plot
>you must also dumb yourself down to my level and accept my dipshittery as fact aieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Holy autism. Imagine basing your theory on sheer stupidity. Actually mind blowing.

>>737266243
My interpretation of that is pretty different than yours clearly.
He doesn't go insane in proximity to the body. He finds the monsters made with mako, this freaks him out and exponentially compounds his fears that he's already a monster and that this is how he was made. He goes to the library, reads 500 books, continues to freak out more and more, finds out from the books how he was made and where jenova is, goes to find it as a last ditch attempt for sanity because if she's not there then it might not be true. She si there. He loses the last shred of hope he had to not be a monster
The same thing does not happen to cloud, my interpretation for cloud is that sephiroth, being merged with jenova in the lifestream, is able to exert some degree of control over any other jenova cells anywhere on the planet. Jenova is dead, in so far as jenova can ever die, it is not conscious.
Sephiroth is not, he is alive, he is conscious, and he is forcing cloud to do those things.
There was never any "jenova masequerading as sephiroth"
It is sephiroth the entire time, remotely controlling all jenova cells whenever it is useful for him to do so. He's not directly controlling the black robed numbers for example, they've just got a general "come the fuck to me" order and then hands off. He is directly controlling cloud when he hands over the black materia or is poised to attack aerith

>>737267098
None of that as anything to do with Ultimecia.
I'm sorry anon, but Rinoa having some emo poem written from her perception doesn't mean she is a time warping witch from the future.

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>>737266756
To be fair, we do have Ultimecia reminiscing about time slipping away as she dies.

>>737266243
>>737267247
You'll note the game repeatedly has white text on black screen of him talking to "himself", he is repeatedly bombarded by headaches, this is all sephiroth. It's not that he only goes insane in proximity, it's that he's only forced to do things because those situations are when it's useful to make him do things.
Anyway this is supposed to be an ff8 thread, which is actually cooler to lore talk and theorise about honestly

>>737266645
>>Actually monsters come from the moon crying
There's nothing stupid about this, they imprisoned the previous fucking sorceress in a space ball my man. She was awake the whole time, they couldn't kill her, you think she was just doing nothing and influencing nothing? Moons pretty close.

>>737267095
yeah, because if ultimecia was rinoa, and riona saw this, surely she would tell them
she'd totally not hide it
are you mental
everything about rinoas character leans towards that she would absolutely not tell them

>>737257395
It's literally only good if this IS the case lmao

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>>737248498
fpbp

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>>737267464
Not to mention that the connection between witches and moon is ancient, not to mention that lunar passages and menstruation cycles.

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>>737266495

The problem is FFVIII talks too much about a mediocre love story. The fact most people hate Rinoa and consider her the worst girl shows how much they missed their mark.
It should have focused more on how magic is changing the world and the wars it makes. Humans casting magic is an extremely recent thing in 8, society should be undergoing huge societal upheavals. You've already got the framework with child soldiers, just go more in depth with it instead of brushing it off.

>>737267616
Not canon anymore.
Hojo in the Remake wants some chad SOLDIERs to gangbang Aerith now. Remake is the current vision of FF7 that SE wants to have.

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Pretty much Nojima took the opportunity of spin-off material to wink-wink at the R=U fans.

>>737267464
Moon has had monsters longer than Adel has been up in space.
The ancient Centra civilization was destroyed by a Lunar Cry landing directly in their capital.

>>737267745
In the OG, Ulti makes it clear she doesn't want to play the part of the demon lord that gets vanquished by the hero. That was the whole point of Time Compression, since she wouldn't be destined to die as history was written.

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>>737267247
>He finds the monsters made with mako
Which is right next to where Jenova is stored
>He goes to the library, reads 500 books, continues to freak out more and more, finds out from the books how he was made and where jenova is
Almost as if his brain is being re-wired to justify his future actions
>The same thing does not happen to cloud
When Cloud meets Tifa in Midgar the Jenova cells in him activate, read Tifa's mind and then creates the "clone" Cloud who is based off those memories as a way to ingratiate the "clone" into Tifa's life.
>There was never any "jenova masequerading as sephiroth"
Every instance of "Sephiroth" being seen and the party then fighting Jenova is Jenova masquerading as Sephiroth. Jenova is literally credited as the character telling Cloud he's a puppet.

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>>737266645
Monster activity in FF8 is tidal activity, yeah.

There are multiple different lifeforms on FF8's planet. The "ayy lmaos" you speak of are called are called "Shumi." Shumi will reach a stage in their life where they evolve into two paths: "Elder" and "Moomba." That "ayylmao" you speak of is an Elder named "Norg." He's been banished from his tribe for being too much of an asshole and willingly shows off the palm of his hands to others (BEYOND disgusting behavior according to his tribe).

>>737267918
Nojima is a complete idiot. Look at what he did to FFX with his little piece of shit side story. Look at the time jannies.

>>737247112
Because Ultimecia didn't have any character development and there are several hints that she might be connected to Squall in some sort of way.

>>737266063
>>737266203
I've always seen it as a sort of mental influence. Jenova's cells compel the things they infect to follow Jenova's biological instincts. It just so happens that Sephy's insanity would drive him to a similar end goal, so it really all works out. Seph is in control, but Jenova's influence is clear as day. He could have just gone on a killing spree, or tried to end the world, but it was (for "some reason") imperative that he take over the lifestream and use the planet as a vessel to do the same to other planets. He doesn't just go nuts and seek revenge, he specifically wants to do what alien monster Jenova would want despite still thinking she was an ancient.

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>>737267607
>filename
Kickass.

>>737267384
>You'll note the game repeatedly has white text on black screen of him talking to "himself", he is repeatedly bombarded by headaches, this is all sephiroth
Disagree, I'd argue at least some of it is his "younger" subconscious. Why would Sephiroth want Cloud to uncover the past through Tifa when Cloud's already going in the direction he wants him to?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCc70ptsoQg#t=700

>>737267858
Which is one of those weird things about FF8 that just gets dropped, and never explained.
Why is the moon the breeding ground for monsters? Is the moon filled with magic? Did aliens put them there?

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>>737267723
Really? This is a different scene in "REM7KE?"
I didn't know that...

I heard that they changed something about Dyne, too...

>>737256927
>FF13, 15: Fabula Nova Crystallis series (Tales of the New Crystal) the world is a kind of simulation created by the Gods where the protagonists have to self-sacrifice by becoming crystals/l'Cie (Ice) themselves after fulfilling their focus to stay in the loop forever to prevent the worlds from being destroyed.
Not exactly. Gran Pulse is a completely natural planet, the gods just settled there to begin their experiments to locate and open Etro’s Gate. The l’Cie aren’t meant to be part of an endless loop—the fal’Cie just ice them for future use, whether for finding the Gate or engaging in the war they think is coming when the Gate is opened. The one who actually tries to keep the world in balance is Etro as she manages the cycle of hearts and souls.
>In FFXIII-2 this even becomes a sentient AI
Not sure what you mean by this—referring to Adam? Adam just goes crazy and turns a bunch of people into Cie’th, and then Serah and Noel delete him from existence. He’s basically just there for the sake of a filler episode.
>leading to XIII-3 where the world is like some kind of computer program simulation of the previous entries worlds of Cocoon and Gran Pulse.
Again, Adam has nothing to with this, unless you’re referring to something else? I wouldn’t call Novus Partus a simulation in any case. It’s sort of artificial in that it was shaped by fal’Cie to give humans refuge from the Chaos, but its purpose is really just to keep them somewhat safe so Bhunivelze can turn them into mindless drones to populate his new world later.

>>737264702
So the way to go about the situation is saying nothing until he breaks?

>>737267858
pretty sure the lunar cry that happens is related to adel though. been years since i played it, because the combat and customization is so brokenly easy it's got low replayability and there aren't boatloads of ff8 overhaul mods
but i don't consider the moon having monsters to be dumb in the first place, sorceress or not
it's actually quite common, grandia 2 has a moon full of monsters too

>>737268431
The clues are in the name.

The word "lunatic" stems from the Latin lunaticus, which originally meant "moonstruck." Historically, it was believed that the phases of the moon induced madness or erratic behavior in humans.
Meanwhile "Pandora" is a direct reference to the Greek myth of Pandora’s Box. In the myth, Pandora is given a sealed box (or jar) and warned never to open it. When her curiosity gets the better of her, she opens it, unleashing all the evils, diseases, and miseries into the world, leaving only "hope" trapped inside at the bottom.

When you put the two concepts together, "Lunatic Pandora" translates thematically to a "vessel that unleashes the madness of the moon." This is precisely its function in the story. The entire purpose of the Lunatic Pandora is to hover over the Tears' Point in Esthar, act as a massive gravitational battery, and trigger the Lunar Cry. Just as opening Pandora's Box released evil into the mythology of ancient Greece, activating the Lunatic Pandora literally rips open the sky and dumps a catastrophic, endless waterfall of alien monsters from the moon directly onto the planet.

Why? I don't know. Because it is cool.

>>737268049
>Every instance of "Sephiroth" being seen and the party then fighting Jenova is Jenova masquerading as Sephiroth.
Again, I think you are flat out incorrect and your interpretation is garbage. Every instance of jenova is sephiroth. He is remote piloting them from the lifestream point in the crater. He merged with the majority of remaining jenova, and he has full control over it because it is DEAD AS FUCK

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>>737268223
Sephiroth justifying "JENOVA" as being an "Ancient" is his mental cope to stop hating himself as the mutated monster that he is. Since he never really knew his mother, has discovered birth origins involving JENOVA, and has always respected the Ancients... convincing himself that JENOVA = Ancient is the only way he can justify his existence any longer.

He's insane, and that's totally believable.

>>737268223
Yeah like I said, the argument that it's biological drive has some middling level of influence over his decisions is reasonable, but it's not control and it's not something he has to do, it's like minor alterations to things he already wanted to do anyway

>>737268671
Also, historically and mythologically, the moon (Luna) is universally associated with witchcraft, the occult, and the "divine feminine." Deities of magic and witchcraft. The Greek goddesses, are often lunar figures. The myth of Pandora here is a direct connection. In Greek mythology, Pandora wasn't just a woman with a box, she was the first human woman, crafted by the gods.

Since in the lore of Final Fantasy VIII, the origin of magic is tied to the Great Hyne, the world's creator deity. Which according to the game in-lore, Hyne gave his magic to the women of the world, creating the first Sorceresses. Therefore, just as Pandora represents the mythological mother of human mortality and suffering, the original Sorceresses are the mothers of the world's magic and suffering.

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>>737268431
It's a reference to FFIV where the main characters are descended from a race of aliens from the moon called Lunarians which is actually an artificial planet who are going to kill everyone on earth to take it over by using the Meteor spell.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Lunarian

FFV also has a plot where a meteor falls on earth that acts a kind of portal between two different worlds. These are clearly referenced in FF7 with the meteor, in FF8 it just got referenced as vague monsters coming from the moon that are some kind of magic conduits.

>>737256451
>>737256451
>>737258917
Its also worth remembering that
>Japan's Lost Decade
is sort of a BIG fucking thing to some of these developers, including those working at Square at the time. Go look up
>Racing Lagoon
and it literally can't be explained without the conceptual understanding of not just the street racing community of the past decades, but paralleled in how there was a massive generational shift within only a few years so that what young men especially thought would continue was taken away in a second by the fall of the Boom Years / Economic Miracle. Some of the devs who worked at Square, Enix and others at the time had thematic overlays for this as well as the post-WII development, coming of environmentalism, and more

Its almost another topic, but the only reason that Japan didn't completely fracture like the way the west parts of the world is doing now (and all the young men's crisis especially is portrayed) is because when the Lost Decade first began they evolved to become a technology and cultural epicenter of the world - it still looked like the MegaTokyo / NeoTokyo future COULD come to pass if you saw the differences in having 100mbps fiber when having 1-3mbps was limited to a handful of DSL owning upper class nerds, or how FOMA phones had video chat, TV etc.. long before smartphones arose in the west. Looking at Japan meant looking at the future from that perspective and so though the Boom Years were gone, they were still the 2nd Biggest Economy in the world.

Then things got worse and worse, and its one reason that as bad as things are for people in the West culturally Japan is really having a huge fucking difficulty of a time, but that's a different discussion as what to do about it

>>737268634
That's how it worked until they got to Northern Crater. Presumably the only way to fix Cloud is to get him to experience the memories he had before the Nibelheim incident and the only way to be sure it's the absolute truth is to experience that through the Lifestream and it's not like they're going to experimentally dunk him in it alongside Tifa so they can both reconcile the past.

>>737268928
The moment he fell into the Lifestream, Sephy found out the truth about Jenova, and the ancients.
The crazy mommy's boy you see in the flashback is long gone, since now we have a evil asshole who is calculating his rise to godhood.
It's kind of funny how pointless the flashback was to Sephiroth's character. None of the shit he spouts mattered in the end since taking the bath made him realize how big of a idiot he was, while wanting to make the glorified security guard pay for embarrassing him.

>>737268808
>Every instance of jenova is sephiroth
Again, you see Sephiroth but then he turns into jenova. This is less an argument about who controls who but which being is directly in front of the party fighting them. You still haven't resolved why the character calling Cloud a puppet is named Jenova.

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>>737269047
Cocoon, the artificial planet humans live on after monsters took over earth (Gran Pulse) in FF13 also kinds of references the moon in the older games. The magic conduit there is the fal'Cie and the big one, Orphan who is the final boss. Your task is to stop it falling on earth (Gran Pulse) by turning into crystal.

>>737268389
I think you're taking me too literally, I don't mean every single white text on black screen is sephiroth, he is a literal schizo too

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>>737269208
it's in the logo

>>737268650
Lunar Cry's have been happening LONG before Adel.
Centra is an ancient civilization destroyed by a Lunar Cry, long before Adel was even born.
Even when you're walking on the space station, some of the researchers begin talking about Lunar Cries as a scientific fact, they're tracking the next cycle, implying it's a regular occurrence.
The one that brought Adel back to Earth wasn't even due to Adel, it was orchestrated by Ultimecia using the Lunatic Pandora.
Lunatic Pandora was one of the first projects Adel worked on when she became Empress (during Laguna's time), she wanted to use it like a weapon to destroy her enemies. If she created the Lunar Cry, why the hell is she spending so much time researching on how to control it?

You're completely wrong. Lunar Cry is a natural phenomenon that may be as old as the world itself. The only time it gets controlled is with the Lunatic Pandora, a device of Odel's research. Trying to link it to sorceresses is pure head cannon.

>>737269238
So which specific dialogs would you consider to be unarguably Sephiroth then?

>>737269182
>Again, you see Sephiroth but then he turns into jenova.
It's not sephiroth though, every time you see sephiroth in the game - if it's not a hallucination - you're seeing the remainder of jenova that "escaped" from shinra hq, being piloted by sephiroth from the crater. He throws chunks of it at you and you fight a boss, and the rest continues to fuck off on its way to where he is
Any naming is irrelevant because you're viewing if from the perspective of an unreliable narrator who doesn't have access to the full information. Cloud doesn't know sephiroth can control every clump of jenova cells on the planet, he actually has access to fairly little of the information that you as the player do

>>737269616
>It's not sephiroth though
That's my point, you should be telling that to the other guy.

FF8 is a game that has some interesting ideas that are executed extremely poorly. Seifer is a pretty good example, because his character motivations are actually pretty hidden and can only be figured out if you pay extremely close attention, but the problem is that he's just set up as a jobber for like 3 minute appearances each disc and isn't worth devoting analysis to.

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>>737268093
I was going to post the end of the "Shumi Village" sidequest webm I have which talks explicitly about Shumis and their hands, but 4chan refuses "120 sec+ duration" filesizes.
So, uh. Have Squall performing his Boss Renzokukens, instead.

>>737269336
I did not say she 'created' it in any sense anon, you'll notice i never said "every lunar cry is related to adel" i said i'm pretty sure specifically the one you see in game is tied to her plans. Adel was not sitting scratching her fanny waiting on a coincidence up in space, she was awake, and she knew what was going to happen, she influenced events in some manner

>>737254338
Look man, teenage mercenaries with demigod pets hunting a time traveling witch from the future/past with love and friendship sprinkled in is based. Simple as.

>>737269456
I would have to replay the game again to be definitive and I've done that too many times recently, you'll have to wait another 5 years :)
The only one white text on black screen I can even vividly remember is the one in the junon inn

>>737269689
Anon, I AM THE OTHER GUY.
It is not LITERALLY sephiroths body, is is jenovas. But is it sephiroth who is in control of it, moving it, speaking through it. The consciousness is sephiroth, the actions are chosen by sephiroth.
If I'm remote piloting a drone, it's still me, the drone isn't sentient, it's not a real entity.

>>737248498
It's undeniably a dumb fucking story, but I still love the game.

>>737269917
>I AM THE OTHER GUY
So you're agreeing with me then, thanks.

>>737268431
VIII does this a lot, even if the defenders try to claim it's a good thing.
Who are the Centra? Why are there monsters on the moon? What is the true origins of the Sorceress? The crystal in the Lunatic Pandora is said to be not natural, where did it come from? Why did the Centra build the gardens? What is NORG's true deal?
All of this is just brushed off and ignored. Even the memory loss, the party just shrugs their shoulders and brush it off.
Yeah, having some vagueness in the world is great, it can make you speculate on things.
The problem is VIII is vague about everything interesting. It should have committed to SOMETHING and focus on it. Even Ultimecia's reason on WHY she wants to time compress is a vague.

Instead it focused on a meh romance. And it didn't even do it well as it's not even the best FF romance.
Take a look at FFX. You had the romance between Tidus and Yuna, but it still focused on Sin and the summoner cycle.
It's vague about the war between Zanarkand and Bevelle, but that's okay to be vague about.

>>737269738
Adel did not have any influence when it came to the current crisis. Ultimecia remembered the powerful witch floating in space, and tried to use her as a meat puppet.
Adel is another one of those characters that have very little substance behind them. Just a plot device at best.

>>737248498
This.
>people gaslite themselves i
Said people are schizos

>>737265201
>You realise people have survived that exact injury in real life
I didn't know.

>you literally see them casting cure in various non gameplay scenes
I didn't mean they can't use magic at all. I meant that we don't know the actual limitations, constraits, and conditions (how many times you can be cured; what injuries can be cured; reviving is for bad injuries or actual dead people, and if so, how many seconds/minutes do you have to cast it...)

If there were no limits at all, Aerith would be fine, for instance.

>>737268093
>>737269727
/wsg/ relaxes the limit.
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1776638968363880.webm

References to Shumi, NORG, and the world of FF8.

>>737247112
Are you trying to summon that R=U schizo?

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FFVIII lay the mechanics of magic, the mechanics of time, and the psychological trauma of the characters, to tell a story about the desperate struggle to preserve human identity against the eroding forces of Time and Power, and the realization that shared memories and connections are our only true anchors to reality.

Everything in the game's lore represents a force that threatens to wash away a person's identity—much like those opening waves eroding the shoreline.
Guardian Forces & Magic (Hyne): In this universe, power demands a sacrifice of the self. To junction a GF is to invite an alien entity into your mind, willingly allowing it to overwrite the space where your childhood memories, your foundational identity, live. Similarly, Hyne's magic is a burden that isolates the Sorceresses, driving them toward madness and alienation as their power separates them from humanity.
Time Compression: Time Compression isn't just a physical threat; it is ultimate psychological annihilation. It forces all past, present, and future into a single singularity. In a void where time doesn't flow, if you lose your memories and your sense of self, you cease to exist entirely. You become a hollow shell lost in the void. Thus the hollowed-out faces shown several times in the game as a literal manifestation of ego death.

Final Fantasy VIII is fundamentally an existential story about the terrifying vulnerability of loving other people in a world where time takes everyone away.

>>737247112
The Final Fantasy community is made out of deranged weirdos. This has always been the case. Yes, they are not written masterpieces, but back in the days they were given a pass and praised because very few if any videogames were remotely as ambitious as Square was from FF7-12 when it came to theatrical cinematics and ease of entry. Despite FFVIII being mechanically janked, convoluted and an uninteresting main character, I was still blown as a 10 year old by the CGI in that game. It's aged heavily though looking very uncanny, but still for its time it was the best.

>>737268472
Shinra in the Remake is interested in Cetras because they want to go to the "promised land." They mention that Aerith having a kid would give them a back-up in case she dies.

>>737247112
because it was blatantly cut down and rushed out so it didnt make much sense

>>737270498
Speak of the devil. Take your meds.

>>737250135
Then why is it a plot beat used only once!?!?! EVERYONE uses GF at the Academy but it's never talked about despite it being public knowledge that you are giving dementia to your students, it never happens ever again to anyone other than for that one lazy twist, and despite all the flashbacks of you stuffing Laguna and co full of GF to win their fights they never develop any memory problems.

They invented a piece of world building with the sole intent of using it for their one shitty twist and despite it having such far reaching implications in world building it never comes up again. It is the very definition of shitty writing.

>>737255742
cloud recounted everything that happened to the T and she almost died back then, it's not surprising that she was doubting her own recollection of things.

>>737270565
the Promised Land is the Lifestream's ability to change time and space (like Ultimecia's magic ability) creating alternate timelines and dream worlds. Shinra isn't aware of that so they think it's a physical place, Aerith as an Ancient is and uses the Lifestream to change the future while inside it after her death.

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>>737270660
Can you prove i am wrong?

Squall begins the game utterly terrified of establishing connections. His infamous "whatever" attitude and refusal to rely on others isn't just teenage angst; it is a defense mechanism. He believes that if he forms no attachments, he can't be hurt when those people eventually leave or die. He is trying to be an island.

But the narrative systematically proves him wrong through its world-building. Giving up your memories for solitary strength (GFs) or violently shutting out the world to control your environment (Ultimecia) leads directly to ruin. The game's ultimate message is that while the passage of time will inevitably wash everything away, shutting yourself off guarantees you will become a hollow, faceless ghost.

Even the concept of being a Knight is about this. It is explicitly designed as a countermeasure to the isolating erosion of Hyne's magic. A Knight isn't just a bodyguard, which is where Seifer went wrong, they are a psychological tether. They are the Sorceress' anchor to her own humanity, keeping her from drifting into the megalomaniacal madness that consumed Adel and Ultimecia.

To survive the ocean of time, you must be willing to let others anchor you, and you must be willing to be an anchor for them.

>>737270801
this is also what the Farplane did with Tidus and the dreaming of the Fayth in FFX so Shinra did used to be aware of what the Promised Land was before they moved planets.

>>737270801
In the OG, the Promised Land isn't literal, but more of a spiritual thing. It's not the Lifestream either.
It's the place you make it out to be, not everyone as the same Promised Land.
Don't know if they are going with this in the Remake, and making it a literal place.

>>737270708
Only the Balamb Garden's cadets use GFs, for obvious reasons you'll be able to deduce. Here's a hint: a fat old man that looks like Robin Williams.

>>737270708
It's not "public knowledge"
Gfs are a new phenomenon, recently adopted
They continuously tell you there's "no proof" of memory loss, just rumours. Cid is doing his utmost to conceal it, he's like the only one who actually knows for sure. And not everyone gets a gf, it's for the elites. Seifer for example, I do not believe even ever gets to use a gf.
>didn't understand the laguna sections
They are not real, you are being shown their past by ellone, you ARE the gf being junctioned to them in that sense. They do not have ifrit equipped, they never did, they never encountered a gf, they have YOU equipped in this replaying of the memory and YOU have ifrit equipped.

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>>737266406
That theory was canon until Square-Enix saw dollar signs in its eyes years later.

>>737270951
Selphie had a GF in her tiny little brain while she was still a cadet in that other Garden.

>>737254338
This was the kind of story where time-ghosts would have fitted. It was already fucked up big time, so another fuckery wouldn't have done so much harm.

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>>737270869
Not even reading your ramblings since its just garbled up nonsense you've been spouting for years when others on here, /vr/, and /vrpg/ have proved you to be insane.
Again, meds.

>>737270037
>So you're agreeing with me then, thanks.
No. Sephiroth piloting jenovas corpse is still sephiroth for all intents and purposes. It is sephiroth, for the entire game, making every choice, every decision, every movement. Jenova is dead as a conscious entity, it's cells are functionally immortal but any personality or intelligence that was 'jenova' is gone.
And inb4 >jenova was retarded and barely intelligent to begin with it was just an animal
It was an animal, but it is repeatedly shown that it is a fairly smart animal in its behaviours. It was still a conscious entity named "jenova" whilst it was alive. That is no longer the case, it is an empty corpse, only sephiroth remains.

>>737270968
Advent Children was released by then and was in development since 2003. Dirge of Cerberus came out in Jan 2006 in Japan. Before Crisis released in 2004. So the spinoff shit was already made or being made.

>>737271095
>Jenova is dead
Then why is the game crediting her with the puppet line directed at Cloud?

>>737270998
>Selphie moved to Trabia and became a student at Trabia Garden. While it does not promote the use of Guardian Forces, Selphie's first junction with one occurred when she was 12 during an outdoor training session when she found one inside a monster. Selphie junctioned her GF for a period of time before losing it and, during this time, forgot her childhood memories, the price for relying on the power of a Guardian Force.
Not because the garden had one to give her, not because it made her, not because she wanted it. By complete accident

>>737270565
Frickin' Al Bhed. Using pyreflies and mako streams like it's magic!

>>737271230
>Then why is the game crediting her with the puppet line directed at Cloud?
I already told you anon, because cloud is not the player, he does not have access to the information you do. He does not know 95% of what the fuck is going on
And the game is not trying to spill the entire plot reveal to you in the first 2 hours of the game

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>>737248498
>An actual rare fpbp

>>737271232
How did she absorb it if she didn't have a GF on her at the start? Why didn't they take it out of her after she did it by accident? They could have put it in her school computer as a Tamagotchi pet.
Why did this plotline get dropped, and not let us get another GF that was trapped and crying in her peabrain?

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>>737270916
Funny, that the spin-off event focusing on FF8 they treated their own version of Promised Land that way.

>>737271176
Yeah, but there's a reason why Kitase brought that up.

>>737271386
>Why did this plotline get dropped, and not let us get another GF that was trapped and crying in her peabrain?
If it had been trapped in her brain for like 5 years or whatever, she'd have no memories left. Squalls first junction is ifrit, and over the course of the game he loses a substantial amount of memories as screenshots have shown. How long is the game over the course of? Less than a year probably.
You do find gfs on monsters in the game, you draw siren from elvoret as the first example.
The plot line is ignored because selphie isn't the main character, and trabia garden isn't the garden it's set in. It's from the perspective, in majority, of squall and balamb garden, in that specific time period plus lagunas memory time periods because of ellone

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>>737270801
>>737270882
>>737270916

>>737271329
That makes zero sense. Why are you encountering "Sephiroth" all these times and the game identifies him as such during dialog but this one time "Sephiroth" shows up it's Jenova that's credited with saying the line even though she's dead? Might as well just say it was Sephiroth then too if they're trying to keep secrets.

>>737271535
Sounds like escapism.
Squall needs to let go of the illusion, because it's not real. He needs to find his real promised land, which does not include Ultimecia, since she will never be Rinoa.

>>737247112
so you faggots are saying ultimecia squall's girlfriend and that the entire point of the game is having him murder her?
that doesn't make any fucking sense. what a fucking waste

>>737271386
>in her peabrain
Have you considered the reason she's the way she is is because of the GF? What if Selphie was the smartest of the bunch originally? Its also presumably the explanation for her unique limit break spells,

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>>737271858
It is fucking romantic, having to murder the love of your loife. Extinguish the life out of corpse. See the lights go out.

>>737250601
This. If I reunited with my elementary school friends on some adventure I would have to get to know them again.

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Because Twin Peaks was very popular in Japan and this came off the its heels

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Since FF8 still gets the most heated and intellectual discussion after all this time, that means it was the best one. I think we can all agree on this.

>>737254338
The setting itself is extremely retarded yeah. Why the hell is there any demand for gardens (nevermind 3 of the them) in the first place when Galbadia is the only active world power

>>737272236
Since the drinking age in Japan is 21.
Is Squall drinking apple juice or something there? He follows the code to the letter, and won't be consuming alcohol as an underage highschool student.

>>737272236
>heated
Yes
>and intellectual
lol

>>737272349
1. gardens underlying secret mission is anti sorceress
2. clearly there's demand for pmcs, the game opens quickly with a literal war going on between two powers in dollet

>>737272386
the game isn't set in japan, otherwise there wouldn't be 16 year old elite child soldiers either because that's also illegal

>>737272236
Are we counting headcanon copes as "intellectual" now?

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>>737272158
>Twin Peaks
Huh...

>>737272349
>>737272607
The original intent by the creators was for the three different mechas be able to form into a single mecha, and that they were designed in a way where that is possible, visually. It never happened because they had little time to implement it.

Imagine how fucking crazy that would be.

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>>737271858
It's been several hundred years since Squall died and his GirlFriend has gone insane, doing everything she can to bring him back. Her current (future) actions are to "wait" at the place "he promised" he'd find her; plus, she's bored waiting so, time to Kompress.
He does show up, as promised, though. He can't recognize her other than his enemy, she can't recognize him other than her pest, so instead of reuniting - they battle.

Julia loses her love when he gets PCS to Esthar. She lets Caraway support her romantic turmoil for a short while hi, Rinoa, but never accepts losing romantic past and kills herself.
Laguna can't get the balls to confess his love to Julia. Soon, he forgets her, and falls in love with Raine. He leaves her for Ellone and Esthar's sake. She dies and he can never forgive himself to losing her has no clue about his son.
Ellone is an orphan, her parents dead. Raine adopts her and begins to raise her + "Florence Nightingale effect" when caring for Laguna. But her power is discovered and Adel abducts her away from this new family. She's saved, returns to Raine, only to discover she died in childbirth and inherently cannot return to Esthar with its sealed borders. She's deported to an orphanage. Years later, white SeeDs discover her (per Laguna's request) and she is taken away from her brother. Ellone is taken away from everyone and it fills her with grief and despair.
Squall refuses to learn love. All relationships have meant "loss" to him; his mother, his sister, his caregiver, everyone leaves him. He falls to the charm of Julia+Caraway's daughter and despite spending his whole life avoiding love, he becomes obsessed with it. He cannot live without her anymore.
Rinoa becomes a witch, gains a sort of immortality, and loses her love. She goes insane, becoming homicidal and suicidal. Squall coming back to kill her is both irony and fate.

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>>737272743

FF8's narrative only becomes stronger with the Rinoa-Ultimecia theory.

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>>737271673
the actual name for the Lifestream/Farplane in the meta FF universe is the Interdimensional Rift

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Interdimensional_Rift_(Final_Fantasy_XVI)

It connects different worlds and timelines together and where you end up at the end of FF15, FF16 and is a map in FF14. The Time Gates in FF13-2 also seem to allude to it and travelling between dimensions, especially after death.

When someone dies their soul enters the Rift which is what produces magic and crystals, or materia in FF7's case. The protagonists of FF13 and FF15 have to sacrifice themselves to keep magic alive and save the world from darkness too after becoming crystal therefore entering the Rift.

Another fate that can befall people is they don't die but stay petrified (instead of crystallized) or turn into monsters/cieth so their soul doesn't enter the Rift but they're no longer alive either. If that happens to everyone, usually when the Chaos Void enters the world through the Rift, then the world becomes a lifeless 'husk' and magic disappears. This is what happens at the end of FF16 where Clive is turning into stone.

FF7 and FF10 have different names for the same in-universe concept, the afterlife and souls seeping into the world as magic and crystal. In FF8 Ultimecia wants to compress it all into a singularity, according to R=U theory because she wants to live in a forever moment with Squall who in 'Squall is dead' theory is both alive and dead at the same time.

>>737270801
Yeah, they look silly assuming this refers to somewhere they can drive to. Remake says most people don't think it's a literal land and Shinra is radical in their interpretation.

>>737249415
Try playing the game for yourself

>>737255742
He killed Sephiroth and that's all that matters

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>>737273464
>FF7 and FF10 have different names for the same in-universe concept, the afterlife and souls seeping into the world as magic and crystal.

In FF9 and FF12 this is called Mist and also lends to their steampunk aesthetic, but it's actually the source of magic.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Mist_(term)

>>737248498
giga-FPBP, 8fags are uniquely pretentious with their retardation

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>>737255742
>>737259489
Yep, she knew the whole time

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Here's another page from the Ultimania guide, written by Nojima.

This game is so cheesy jank one-offy in general I love it.

>>737247112
It well know canon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa5gcYA8xf8

>>737271785
Rinoa will not come to promised land

>>737247112
Jenova is an eldritch alien that doesn't really have sapience like humans have. It came to Gaia to infest and absorb its life essence, acting like a parasite. The Cetra defeated Jenova and sealed its influence away as they couldn't destroy it.

Fast forward to present day, and the threat of Jenova is forgotten, and the Cetra are virtually extinct. Shinra uncovers Jenova during their excavations to harvest more energy, and assume she's one of the Cetra. They take her for research on how to reach some 'Promised Land' (which is likely either lies or Gaia under the tending of the Cetra), and Hojo gets his grubby mitts on her body. He finds out Jenova isn't a Cetra, but an alien. He performs all sorts of experiments splicing her DNA with things, and Sephiroth is born.

He's misled during Nibelheim to think that he's a Cetra, and combined with his feelings of severe separation and his lack of a normal upbringing, goes nuts and razes the place to the ground. He retrieves Jenova's head, then gets stabbed and thrown into the Lifestream with Jenova's head.

Due to his biology being part-alien, he isn't assimilated into the Lifestream like normal people are. He absorbs the knowledge and abilties of the Cetra, as the Lifestream is basically a condensed stream of the experiences of every living thing, and learns the truth about his nature during this time. As being exposed to the Lifestream is an insanity-inducing experience combined with his already unstable mind, Sephiroth goes more nuts. Accepting his nature as an alien hybrid, he wishes to fulfill the goal of his mother; infect and absorb the Lifestream, using the power to continue traveling to different worlds to do the same thing (as perhaps Jenova did in the first place).

Jenova has no actual part in controlling his actions, no more than your lineage controlling your actions. If anything, Sephiroth uses Jenova's body, using the head to attract and control the other pieces.

Ultimecia is supposed to be absorbing Sorceresses basically. So eventually the one that didn’t get caught becomes the one to live long enough to become her. Adel for instance almost went into the full transformation, becoming monstrous, like fifteen feet tall and growing weird appendages. What makes it seem like it must have been Rinoa is that she uses Lionheart as a GF, the same one that you name Squall’s necklace for. Whatever you name it, that’s the GF’s summon when she uses it. Seems like they heavily imply Ultimecia is what would happen to Rinoa without Squall, or if Squall just failed even since the acquisition of the GF implies they still met in that timeline.

>>737271238
Hojo might do good work, brudda, but I still don't want him living here.

>>737275047
Wrong

Jenova is described as tricking the Ancients retard

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What the fuck does this mean?

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>>737275356
Possibly a reference to the GFs called Eden, that's somehow tied to the various Garden.

>>737275356
Symbol of the Great Hyne maybe?
That being is one of the most enigmatic plot poinst FF8 just doesn't follow up on at all, even with it being so important to the foundation of the world.

>>737267343
man that shit was so kino with The Extreme playing and getting to smash out multiple lion hearts because the boss is HP gated

>>737275660
>somehow
Yeah, its truly a mystery how Eden and Garden could possibly be related.

>>737247112
the game really does fall totally apart as soon as you meet NURG or whatever
i thought i was in act 2 tonally or whatever and then the game just ended

Also after playing III I have been thinking of a new theory about FF

What if each game had a light warriors or dark warriors setting? In III they mention that the warriors need to restore light, which they do in I-V, but I wonder if they though about this in the future and had some of the party be considered more evil. VI for instance the crystals are already busted IIRC, so maybe the party is actually comprised of dark warriors in that game. Kefka is also an angel at the end, which is pretty light-heavy.

I haven’t played II, IV, or V in years so I can’t remember much about the description of the crystals but I’m pretty sure they all get called warriors of light specifically…

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>>737275919
>Also after playing III I have been thinking of a new theory about FF
>FFIII
UH OH!

>>737275842
Just because there might be one, doesn't mean there is one. Eden being some GF picked up on a random super boss at the bottom of a underwater ruin, doesn't give it that much weight that it is connected to the Gardens in anyway.

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>>737248498
holy shit
ff8 apologists on literal suicide watch

>>737247112
It's just teenager wish fulfillment: the game, which is why you see so many posts of "it was awesome to play this when I was younger". Fine for what it is, but nothing more than that.

>>737276017
Oh… fuck

Man thanks for pointing this out

Also I noticed that none of the items for IX are actually named the same in III. Like you get a key or whatever but not the mirror etc

>>737276053
I can't relate to Squall at all.
He is so much cooler than every other character in the game, it makes him seem far too fictional to properly self-insert as.

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>>737274437
Another translation from the guide.

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>>737274437
>>737276637
Now, why did i post these two translations?
Because in these texts written by Nojima, he keeps hammering on Rinoa wanting to become like a lion, to match Squall. Whereas in the game we just had this small moment where we name the ring.

>>737276734
>>737276637
Nojima is a genius

>>737276734
Anon, we already know what is happening there.
Ultimecia is forming Griever from Squall's memories. This isn't her remembering something as Rinoa, she is doing the Ghostbusters thing, and creating the destroyer.

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>>737276734
You fuckers already know where i am going with this.
What end up happening when you confront Ultimecia? She junction with Griever, becoming like a lion.
The music theme that plays is even titled as something Rinoa said:
https://youtu.be/YTk2v417ANU?list=RDYTk2v417ANU

So this awesome as fuck music isn't about Squall, but rather Rinoa theme music.

>>737276220
Oof

Lmao I honestly consider myself cool as fuck so he’s great IMO

>>737276637
I knew they could hear his fucking thoughts

>>737276878
Based

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>>737276839
Yes, she read his mind, but does that change anything?

I mean, take her whole design. The feline like eyes, the bloody-red claws, the plumes on her dress that looks reminiscent of a lioness mane...

The only oddity is the red dress. Did someone else wore a red dress in the game? Oh, WAI-

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>>737275356

>>737277081
So in the alternate timeline I wonder when she becomes Ultimecia, probably when Squall dies

>>737276023
>hidden behind the curtain puppet master keeping the world in a perpetual state of war with armies of child mercenaries is a fat Jew
What did square mean by this?

yeah R=U is really the only thing that saves ff8's plot

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The truly fucked part is that originally there would be no Raine.
Squall and Rinoa would be half-brother and half-sister, and their romance would be incest-y.

Here's the original design for what ended up becoming Raine grave. It was meant to be Julia, when she was the single mother. See the lion symbol on the grave.

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>>737276839
This is confirmed by FF14. The penultimate boss of their FF8 themed raid is a combination of the Squall equivalent's father and grandfather figures constructed from her memories.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB74SFACHqY

>>737277272
Copenhagen

Play the game already it’s great

I also love how relatable Squall is. He doesn’t always instantly come out ahead, like the giant scar he gets from Seifer

I think a lot about how close Seifer is to Safer/Sephirot/Zephyr etc too

>>737277368
I did and I love quistis

>>737277272
True
The game is much better if Ultimecia is a distant future version of Rinoa that went insane as a sorceress due to not having a mortal lifespan Squall
Her time compression being a way for her to reach Squall in the past is more compelling than just trying to outrun her fate of being defeated by a hero

>>737275267
Yes, you are correct. That doesn't contradict anything I've said. She came to Gaia and assumed the form of a Cetran woman, which is the state Shinra found her in, hence why they assumed she was Cetran.

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>>737277432
It is not even that crazy, look at this page >>737267098. This is official shit. Here's the original Japanese version, in case you if like translating yourself.
It is pretty much retelling the opening cinematic through that version of Rinoa's PoV, and in it you're hit with three major concepts:
This Rinoa is trapped in the void of space and time (possibly as a result of Time Compression)
Not only that but this Rinoa is lost there possibly for centuries, or an instant, as there is no passage of time.
This Rinoa also lost most of her memories.

Oh, and the white feather she is seen sending to the sky in the opening is the same white feather Squall find in the ending cinematic. And what happens when he gets close to it? The most trippy shit in a FF cinematic.

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They made Squall gay in FFXIV.

>>737276220
His design is cool
The actual character himself is a dweeb

>>737277780
But Gaia is Rinoa, Ryne is Squall. Still gay though.

>>737249415
I couldn't even tell you what the story was if I tried. A bunch of students get into warfare or something and they wanna assassinate some witch? Then you go to space for some reason. I dunno, shit never made sense to me.

>>737247112
R=U has a lot of good arguments, and this is not one of them.

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>>737278326
For something that's just a "fan theory", Square SURE loves to tease them about it

>>737277359
>This is confirmed by FF14.
Just stop, nobody gives two fucks about this abomination of a game, nothing about it matters and nothing in it is canon to absolutely anything. It's just an exercise in trying to keep you opening your wallet for nostalgia bait references
Same to the guy who is like "oh its the interdimensional rift ff14 confirms thats the lifestream and farplane" just insane cope, trying to capitalize on writing that was good or interesting by piggy backing onto it with their massive modern competency crisis.

>>737274189
>>737259489
>>737256608
>>737255742
Cloud was there, he was just a bit player. Tifa is unconscious during the fight with Seph, so she believes Cloud was there but also can't confirm it and he acts weird/childish and is clearly having memory issues, but they're also desperate for eco terrorists and he's capable when he's not spacing out.
Cloud acts like a 13 year old pretending to be a cool SOLDIER but he was really a loser lying to himself and the game's biggest plot point is him recognizing that and growing as a person and learning to rely on others.
>>737254338
Japan loves their age purity and knight academy tropes.

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>>737260028

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In the spin-off event they sort of question about who Ultimecia might be, but decide to ignore it. The funny thing is that Julia theme is playing in the background when this happen. Those fuckers;

>>737279049
It's pretty much the same thing in the OG game.
That stupid looking scientist, Ellone, Rinoa, and Laguna just ignore what the time witch's reasons for doing the whole time compression thing was, and just go straight to the killing option.
Only Selphie gives some thoughts about it, and it's in the most out of the way place to actually see the peabrain's writings.

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>>737279260

>>737268431
>why? When? How? Who? What?
Irrelevant, time-wasting questions. You want an encyclopedia in place of a story. FFXIII would be up your alley since it goes up its own ass explaining every minor setting detail instead of an interesting plot.

>>737277780
I like lady Cloud

>>737279473
Lightening?

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>>737269336
>cycle tied to the moon
>a river of blood regularly rushes out, carrying monsters with it

It's a menstruation metaphor

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>>737279049
I still love how "Julia's Theme" is "Eyes On Me."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE6ACd1ia0g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-_Did76LXQ

Julia became globally famous, writing that song, singing about Laguna. All those lyrics were about him. Rinoa takes her mother's theme and falls for Squall after meeting at their promised spot once the Kompression stopped... and he seems dead. She falls apart. Her anguish reveals enormous magical powers, now that she's a witch, but she doesn't care about any of that; she just wants Squall.

>>737279425
Why are there monsters on the moon anon? What are FF8 monsters in general? You don't show something like the Lunar Cry cinematic, and not expect people to start question why SE wasted time and money creating something that doesn't amount to anything after the initial shock wears off.

>>737256946
FF8 fans will also point to a video from god knows how many years ago as a sad form of defense

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>>737248498
Now see here's were I must strongly disagree. I would never say FF8's plot is badly written. Because that would imply it was even written in the first place!

>>737279425
Apparently everything is a time-wasting question in VIII.
Even the main villain's motivation is passed off as irrelevant to the party.

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>>737279670
Laguna starts out as the quintessential, classic RPG protagonist. He is outgoing, wears his heart on his sleeve, dreams of being a journalist, and naturally draws a loyal party of friends around him without even trying. He is driven entirely by his passions.
But the universe brutally punishes him for it. His entire life story becomes a sequence of heartbreaking sacrifices for the "greater good":
Julia: He leaves his true love behind to fulfill his military deployment, leading to a permanent separation.
Raine and Ellone: He finds a quiet, happy family life in Winhill, but is forced to abandon it to rescue Ellone from Esthar.
Esthar: He successfully saves Ellone, but instead of returning to Raine (who dies giving birth to Squall), he accepts the mantle of President of Esthar to ensure Sorceress Adel remains sealed.
Laguna, the ultimate free-spirited romantic, ends up trapped in a sterile, futuristic room, carrying the weight of the entire world on his shoulders. He became the ultimate duty-bound soldier because he had no other choice.

Squall is a manufactured child-soldier. He is cold, analytical, rejects friendship, and explicitly states his desire to just be a tool for Garden. He actively builds emotional walls because he is terrified of the exact kind of loss that defined his father's life.
But as the game unfolds, Squall's trajectory completely abandons duty in favor of irrational, all-consuming love. As a SeeD, Squall's literal, sworn duty is to assassinate Sorceresses. Yet, when Rinoa inherits the powers of a Sorceress, he throws it out the window. He literally jumps into the vacuum of space to catch her, an action completely devoid of logic, military strategy, or duty.
When Esthar demands Rinoa be sealed to protect the world (the exact scenario Laguna faced with Adel), Squall initially complies out of duty. But he breaks. He storms the Sorceress Memorial, frees her, and decides that if the world wants to kill her, he will fight the entire world.