>the games protagonist is also the antagonist
was too deep for the whole world (and /v/) sadly
>>737304837The story it wants to tell doesn't work in an interactive medium.Also the devs were and have since been very clear about their wanting to call out the player.So when they do things like invisible wall the player and railroad them into doing one specific thing then criticize them for it, it REALLY falls flat.This is a genuine criticism of the argument that it's worth standing toe to toe with HoD or apocalypse now. Those have the virtue of not being interactive.
>>737304752lisa the painful live adaptation
>>737304837"wow you're such an awful person, player behind the screen" doesn't work when the game railroads you into killing all those brown people without any other optionGames like Iji or Undertale do the concept much better (even with their own flaws, namely the former's pacifist run being a joke that relies entirely on abusing i-frames and the latter beating you so hard over the head with the peaceful option that you have to go well out of your way to get the bad ending)
>>737305183They also said the wanted to tell a political message and any psychological philosophy takes a backseat to that.
>>737305483I think the player driven, understated choices are much more impactful. Like how it's your decision to light up the CIA spooks in the mall first or let them go, to your own detriment. Choosing to kill the lynch mob, let them go, or fire in the air to scare them off.
>>737304752>I FUCKING HATE CHAOS
>>737304837>>737305183>>737305183>>737306698Have you actually never read a book with an unreliable narrator before
>>737304837Libtard simulator
>>737305183It worked if you went into it blind when it came out, unfortunately it's been discussed to death anyone looking into playing the game now has already been spoiled and primed on everything. I agree that you can't really fix that and appreciate it the same which is a flaw the developers made.
>>737306817Nobody read books unc
>>737306817Yes, and they tend to suck because authors outright lie to you for le epic twist instead of actually having an unreliable narrator.
>>737304752They call me a killer, a monster, a terroristI am all of these things
>>737304752This was the first time I ran into that.
>>737304752From the enemy's point of view, the player is always evil.
>>737306848I went in blind and quit at the part where the game does not let you progress unless you use white phosphorus to delete the spawners of the infinite respawning enemies. At the time I was particularly tired of games with nonsensical forced linearity and was not having their shit.
>>737304752Retard
>>737306848I disagree, I went into it and thought it was pretty cool but by the time the white phosphorous scene comes up, which is the most crucial and impactful scene of really the whole game, it's VERY hard not to notice that it's impossible to stop the assault without doing it. You can kill and kill and kill and kill and they just keep coming, you can't stop, you can't make a choice to not do it like you can with OTHER elements before AND after, it railroads you right into it, I was set up to believe that I might be able to make a choice, and then when I found out "no you didn't miss a collectible or scene to allow you to avoid it, it just forces you to" it completely sucked the wind out of my sails.
>>737304837If they had real balls, they would have set this during WW2.
>>737304752Can't be both, stupid. What do you think 'protagonist' stands for?
>>737307093>>737307138When I did it I hopped right on the willy pete cause they'd already shot it at me, there was no pause, and my 2nd or third shell deleted all the civilians, so it did work for me. I didn't get mad at the game for it, so I guess that's the difference, and why that part is so flawed.
>>737304837Making the MCs retarded isn't "deep," even if the rest of the story is equally retarded.
>>737307394I was hugging the right side near the ammo crate expecting I would need to reload (since it was there), and then they just... kept coming, it took me a good like 2 minutes of just clicking heads before I figured out that I had to use the mortar. I understand a lot of people experienced it like you did, but ehhh.
Crackdown
>>737304752
>>737304752Learn your storytelling terms. Protagonist = narrative viewpoing character, antagonist = protagonist's enemy. It's impossible to be both at the same time by these definitions. At best you can have a protagonist of a story arc become another story arc's protagonist's antagonist, or the other way around.
>>737304837Aside from the mediocre gunplay, this game did some genuinely great stuff with things like environmental storytelling and choice moments that don't feel like the typical "pick your option from the list" choices. Only to ruin it with a few incredibly dumb storytelling moments (most notably the infamous WP scene) and the hamfisted "if you enjoy war games you're not a good person" messaging.I genuinely feel that by rewriting just a couple of scenes and sprucing up the gameplay a bit, it would've been seen as a classic.
>ARE YOU HAVING FUN YET?why yes, yes I am, I say to myself as I proceed to load in and explode 50 motherfuckers
>>737307617>it's impossible for a character to be their own worst enemyAbsolute basement-tier comment.
>>737304752[OFF] was good
>>737304837>Push button to shoot phosphorus>(The game will be paused until you do)>LOOK! YOU DID THIS!!!It was a game meant for room temp IQ leftist normalfags.
>OP>RetardedNothing new
Arthas did nothing wrong
>>737307617It's not impossible, don retardo. This guy >>737308059 for example is both the protagonist and the antagonist.
>>737304837Completely destroyed by the “normal words, but a horse guy” of video game comics.
>>737304837Call of duty has done a better job doing the exact same thing that The Line wants to be highfalutin about The Line demonstrates a critical misunderstanding of how games even work, like how do we talk about video game violence in a post-Harvester world, that's a conversation to be had. Then these cuckswedes show up and think they're breaking new ground talking about the MIC and video game violence and "what if you aren't the good guy" give me a break.The worst of all of this is that games have existed prior, done better, and been more thought out, yet pseuds praise The Line for being some kind of first or best in class to do it, but really it's just a 5/10 bogstandard unfun third person shooter with scrapped sand mechanics, poor level design, and boring moment to moment gameplay that subverts nothing and noone. Not one person played Spec Ops unaware of what it was doing.
>>737307093>>737307394Should've quit at the stop sign after the opening credits, schizo retard.Last stopping point is after the shootout in the derelict plane.
>>737307617Its absolutely possible to be both the main character and the villain of the story. I know this board despises the idea of actually playing videogames but God of War comes to mind. TV shows Breaking Bad comes to mind or cartoons Invader Zim.
>>737308548If you stand still long enough when your guys are arguing with the brown guys at the very beginning, they eventually start shooting at you, from there you have all you need to justify continued forward movement.
>>737308612Villain ≠ antagonist, lil gup
>>737307753Something being correct by technicality =/= something being useful in discussions. Sure you can go "hurr everyone who's ever failed is their own worst enemy because they'd have succeeded had they not fucked up" but that's just truism.>>737308212Split personalities are practically their own characters.
>>737308659>Split personalities are practically their own characters.They are both
>>737307617>>737308649
>>737309027They really need to make a xenogears movie or anime because holy shit the game aspect is trash
>>737304837>People still falling for the "This game is about you the player being a bad person for playing it!" fake narrativeAlmost everyone that talks about this game have never played it, let alone finish it
>>737307617What about fight club?
>>737304752>>the games protagonist is also the antagonist
>>737304837>YOU'RE A BAD PERSON FOR DOING SOMETHING THE GAME FORCES YOU TO DO!>AREN'T WE SO WACKY AND "DEEP," PLAYER!?No.
>>737310523>falling for>fake narrativeThe director wrote a book confirming it. The scans get posted in threads all the time
>game hard locks your skill points
>>737310523>directorSorry, lead writer
>>737304752Rico from Just Cause, just goes to these shithole nations because the US wants the resources and to get rid of the governments and install their own, blows up the populations entire industry and then leaves
>>737310523
>>737311294Why does 'none' still have a receding hairline, surely none would be this
>>737310523>>737311545Just Cause as a series is neat because the story is so muted that most people don't really pick up on Rico being a CIA asset destabilizing a country for the sake of the US to usurp control. I'm not saying it's well written, but it is a cool satire that does a decent job of tying narrative and mechanic together
>>737310523a lot of people aren't sophisticated enough to realize that the "player" who emerges through gameplay and the Player physically holding the controller are distinct entities. it's the sort of narcissism one usually associates with women.>>737311272>intentional fallacy
>>737311748Shame Just Cause 5 was cancelled, it was rumored to be set in the US where Rico is fighting the agency
>>737312185That would have been cool but it makes sense it was cancelled with how much they clearly cut costs on 4 and likely spent too much working in the underutilized weather mechanics
>>737304752>Jewish man portrays a crazy white man so he can explain how white man is bad>complete with obligatory "Nazi bad too!" out of fucking nowhere
>>737304752Black dude here, this is the white dude we fear, he looked normal as hell then BOOM full crazy cracka mode
>>737312336Hey schumaker, cool story, it'd be a real shame if it became a cartoonish movie that's almost impossible to take seriously as some kind of scathing commentary.
>>737312416I've never watched falling down, i'm guessing the point is to show the struggles of the working man?
>>737312485He's that "I'm mad as hell and I ain't gonna take it no more" type a dude, all clean and cut nice, has a boring looking job but just says fuck it and crashes out for like 2 hours, of course his ex-wife and kid are scared but he don't give a shit. it's a good but somewhat unrealistic movie
>>737304752>the games protagonist is also the antagonist>protagonist cucks himself
>>737312626Sounds pretty kino, i'll give it a watch.
>>737312485Its supposed to be like Joker where you kind of sympathize with DFens, then at some point, I'm assuming the Macdonalds scene, you're supposed to go "oh no, this guy is crazy" and then it cuts away to some cop precinct where they give you some bullshit about "he was going to kidnap/kill his wife and daughter" that they couldn't bother to tie into the actual plot or behavior of the character. The entirety of the film is far too silly to make any of it truly register though and by the end it tries too hard to tell the viewer "THIS IS SERIOUS, STOP CHEERING" libs love parading it as an example of audiences not being media literate like that power rangers movie, starship troopers.
>>737304837Trannies love this game
>>737312485It's a good movie with a ridiculous and cringe ending.
>>737312626He did nothing wrong btw
>>737312690>libs love parading it as an example of audiences not being media literate like that power rangers movie, starship troopers.there is always a problem with these kinds of people and their messages that i just call them brittany from daria, because of that one episode where jane paints a picture of an anorexia/bulimia puker femaleand brit draws a picture of drugs and alcohol with the message "drugs and alcohol are bad"and then when the teacher wonders how that's even communicated, brit just draws a circle and slash in lipstick over it
>>737311808If you have to praise a story as "I see what were aiming at and I would be great if they were competent enough to pull it off" then it's not a good story.
>>737304837I really love this game but it's message doesn't hit as hard as it could if the player have a alternative ending where he finaly leaves his hell, right at the beginning of the game after finding the survivors, just be able to not shot them and leave. Basicaly if should've have a way to complete Walker's mission.
>>737310054They've tried, no less than 5 times. But no one wants to produce it because the identity crisis around the brand is so severe it actively harms it.xenoblade is the best we'll ever get, sadly.
>>737313052are there any good games where you have an actual choice to do or not do shit like that? preferably actual actions, and not just "do bad thing", "don't do the bad thing" choice boxes
>>737312817Nigga he blew up a tractor with a bazooka
>>737313283Yeah the digger, which is explained in the green text
>>737305183true, people will only bring up spec ops the line to bait others who aren't aware yetthe loading screen tips are for the player, the devs are pseuds who huff their own farts and wanted to make a game that shows war is bad but apparently couldn't find any other way than the terribly hamfisted way they went>we made a scene where doing the terrible thing was easy and the hard thing was hard>players went with the hard thing every time and we didn't want that, because it goes against the narrative that these people don't care about their actions
>>737313283noone dieddid you feel sorry for the little chibi tractor-chan and cry a tear
>>737313283His ex-wife had a restraining order on him too and was clearly afraid when he showed up.
>>737304752Why does /tv/ keep memeing this movie on other boards? Fuck off.
>>737313185In re4 you can help, ignore or kill a dog caught in a trap. You get rewarded for helping later but it's not obvious on your first playthrough.
>>737312461I actually don't know what you are trying to say here.
>>737313336>that shows war is badthis message never really means anything because reasonable people already understand this and the only ones who don't feel that way are the ones who benefit from it in some way, usually politicians, and that's because of someone's hands in someone else's pockets, and they are like demons from frieren in that they don't have the kind of compassion or empathy that humans do as long as something in their bank goes kachingit's really a message that does nothing in the end if your message is some kind of bleeding hearts one that tries to convince a demon of such a message
>>737304837Retards love this game
>>737311496>>737311564>>737311748There is literally nothing in here that says that you are a bad person for playing the game, he's talking about making the player feel bad about his actions and make him think about what he just did but in no moment he says "you are a bad person for doing X"
>>737314221That's a meaningless distinction. The intent is for the player to make a morally evil decision and feel bad about it.
>>737314504>The intent is for the player to make a morally evil decision and feel bad about it.And what's the issue with this? If the player does something bad out of his own will he should feel bad about it
>>737308548KINO
>>737314504>The intent is for the player to make a morally evil decision and feel bad about itPostal exists
>>737314728Its poorly done and implies a secondary decision that was neglected. I'm not against a game giving the player difficult choices and giving them an assessment of the moral clarity and implications of that decision. I am against a game trying to make some kind of dishonest meta assessment when there was no choice to actually be made.In order for The Line to be coherent, the criticism can only be levied at walker the character, and not the player.Significant Zero however states that yes, the player is being addressed in the criticism, the player is making a bad decision, and the player is being admonished for the nondecision made
>>737307138>by the time the white phosphorous scene comes up it's VERY hard not to notice that it's impossible to stop the assault without doing itYou oversell the thought process of people that played CoD at the time, or most players for that matter.
>>737313185Bioshock 1 you harvest or save the girls. You get more rewards up front if you harvest, but in the long run I think saving the girls gets you more reward.
>ITT: ESL general
>>737312817>no you HAVE to price that coke the EXACT same way as it was in 1950>the store owner in an obviously gang filled neighbour doesn't have a right to d-fens>stole firearms instead of surrendering them to the police>there's a reason breakfast stops, machines need to be turned off and cleaned>construction workers didn't get a say in whether the street needed to be torn up, that's on the city, the actual fix will cost tax payers more>ruins a barbeque>shoots a cop for no reason>traumatising his family, depriving his daughter of a father, only thinking about what he wants, shutting down the beach for everyone else>VHS record of him manhandling his daughter to the point of tears>lies to his motherWhat an asshole.
>>7373116266
>>737304752That's not how those words work. You're referring to a villain protagonist.
>>737314504That's not a meaningless distinction at all. You say this like he's directly saying to guilt trip them rather than be willing to create a harrowing, impactful moment and not pull punches.
>The game's antagonist is also the protagonist
>>737304752/r/topcharactertropes thread
>>737313349>women never exaggerate
>>737304837I really enjoyed my playthrough of this especially since MGSV hype was going on and I got to go more NUCLEAR in it than I did in V. It's a shame every discussion of it now is just whining about author intent. I also liked how your animations and Walker's lines commanding his squad got more violent and vulgar as the game progressed. I wish more games did that kind of thing.
>>737307570Demonstrably different from the protag
>>737313210What song are these lyrics for
