ITT: Lost technology
I dont think its totally lost. But man i wish mkre games had inventory like this.
>>737311465I fully believe developers lost the knowledge of how to program mirrors.
>>737311465To me the most realistic game as a kid was the Getaway but to you guys it would look like shit now since it doesn't have fancy effects like Mario.
>HI I'm looking for X>Yeah that's that guy over there *points at character*Blew my mind back then, and haven't really seen it ever since, every other game just gives you some convoluted ass long description or some quest marker, even nowadays
CRTs (and basically illegal in a lot of places)
>>737311465>mirrorseh.>DYNAMIC, MOVING mirrorsHOW?
>>737313391>how does the mirror know what's behind the paper?
>>737311465What about it, OP?
does rendering a room twice for a mirror effect really fuck up performance that much in modern games?
>>737315630No, actually is quite cheap, but mario sunshine use framebuffer trickery and caps to 1-2 mirrors.Some games just use a second camera to render mirrors like source games.
>>737315446I got filtered by it.
>>737311465Apparently, the mirror is a texture that shows what a different camera sees.
>>737311465Thank nvidia and epic with their payola kickback scheme to force new hardware sales by making ue5 intentionally unoptimized.
>>737315920Forced enshittification is real?
>>737316362How else will Nvidia sell the latest graphics cards?
>>737311465I seen better meers in my grandma house
>>737311465its crazy how old mirror techniques still look a million times better than ray/path tracing
>>737316568Does Nvidia even care about selling their graphics cards for graphics purposes? Last I heard like 90% of GPUs they produce go straight to AI datacenters
>>737311465https://youtu.be/u77mNE72d-k?si=LoI0Sawh8yAeQFUp&t=5232impressive
this is not an accurate mirror btw, the tower/environment shouldn't be tilting along with the mirror.
Silent hill 2 remake can do this actually
>>737318356fucki may have to hook up my cube to replay sunshine again this summer vros
>>737315630For a small room not really by keeping the render distance low so you don't render unnecessary stuff if doing planar reflectionsFor the camera variant it comes down to texture size and limiting it's update rate.
>>737311685Creative or even just stylized UI is rapidly becoming extinct in favor of the generic translucent gray box shit and I fucking hate it
>>737311465Those reflections aren't real, it's fake graphics
>>737319345So why can't modern games use fake graphics
>>737315630With all the dogshit 'moving/breakable clutter' in every game that already tanks performance by itself, yeah probably.
>>737311465>pre-rendered backgrounds>pre-rendered backgrounds with dynamic lighting>pre-rendered backgrounds with a mirror>pre-rendered backgrounds with dynamic lighting reflecting through a mirror in real timeLiterally not possible any more.
NINTENDO INVENTED RAY TRACING
>>737315630It's what Lumen does aka fake ray tracing.It's extremely expensive yes.
>>737313391It's very likely another "camera" projected into a texture. Its then tilted alongside the mirror. Nothing about this is lost (as always), and it can easily be done in any game engine
>>737311465>Lost technology I don't understand this concept devs keep pushing. What the hell does this even mean? How do you lose the technology? You can't go into the game and reverse engineer this kind of stuff? Does it just grow legs and walk out of the building? Corporations tout their engines as state-of-the-art modern day software that can do anything and they can't figure out how to put a mirror in a game without the whole damn thing crashing?Please help me understand. There's no way I can believe these types of minor details just vanish from game design without some sort of explanation
>>737319792thats another funny thing, ray tracing was invented in the 60s yet modern devs struggle to do it even today
>>737315630Modern games barely run at all unless they're tailor-made for a specific console, and even then they usually target 30FPS.It's why most mirrors in most modern games have to rely heavily on cheats and tricks like stuffing you into a tiny empty bathroom with basically nothing in it, or only having the mirror work temporarily via future tech like Death Stranding and CP2077.
>>737319792That was Halo actually
>>737320469The code that made it work can't be comprehended and replicated by modern developers (jeets).
>>737320481The struggle is from trying to do it in realtime with low rays per pixel (sometimes it's only part of pixel) and denoising from the low ray count.Baked lighting has been raytracing for decades since you aren't limited by trying to run it 30/60+ frames a second.
>>737311465You know when you see that reflection that reflection isn't actually there? Nothing is being reflected. It's just a camera pointed to the sky and you're falling for it like a fucking idiot who doesn't understand what the fuck he's talking about.
>>737320469>devs keep pushingI've never seen the concept mentioned anywhere else than /v/. When some detail isn't in a game, in most cases it's not because the devs wouldn't have been able to make it, but because there's no time for extra stuff in the schedule and budget.Also, it's harder to plan and implement a room that meets the specific conditions of a believable mirror effect when there are 300+ people all over the world working on the game, instead of 20-30 in the same office
>>737320469It's mostly a meme these days since shit games in the past did aren't present today.This shit has been happening for like 2 decades but people are shitting on it harder these days.
>>737311465It's literally just rendering the scene twice.
>>737319290because it's accessible :)
>>737321050>i-it's just--If it's "just" anything, why has nobody but Nintendo been able to do this for 20 years?
>>737321137Rear/side view mirrors in racing games that have them work exactly the same
>>737320469it's just a funny term for technology that should be easier now then in the past but modern devs struggle to recreate them. See also: Native Windows programs
>>737320469The suits laid off everyone who understood the technology, outsourced everything to low-wage foreign countries, and said "make it as quickly and cheaply as possible."Then they sit and wonder why the results and returns suck.
>>737321343There are reasons why some things are harder to implement in more high-polygon environments, even with modern technology. For example, making the shots light up a dozen polygons in Metroid Prime was more feasible on GameCube than it was making the same effect work on hundreds or thousands of polygons on Switch
>>737317140its picture in pictureliterally every tacticool milisim game still does this for scoped optics because nothing else can do it correctly.
>>737311685tibia
>>737311685>mkrehuh
>>737321518In many cased the returns don't suck. The suits in video game companies are making enormously more money now than they did in the 90s or 00s. Making bad products is rewarded if they're cheaply made and well marketed, and get investors excited
>>737319290Not scalable. Better to just move more interaction from the UI into the world than design a stylized UI
>>737311685Ultima has a terrible inventory system though, the only way that they could improve it without throwing away the core tenants of the system would be the ability to search your inventory for items and it would open the bag (or series of bags if what you need is inside a bag inside a bag) where the item was.
>>737321848>Making bad products is rewarded if they're cheaply made and well marketed, and get investors excitedYet Concord and it's cousins are complete failures. Explain.
>>737322009It's essentially gambling. A successful live service game can potentially keep making money for a decade or more. Even if it's not that successful, in-game purchases can make for huge amounts of profit from early whales. If it's a Concord, just fire everyone and roll the dice again
>>737322290>If it's a Concord, just fire everyone and roll the dice againHow come the people rolling the dice never seem to get fired?
>>737322290It's a funny thingThey nitpick projects that would cost less because they don't think it would make enough money but gamble on super expensive projects with a very high failure rate since if they succeed it will make all the money.
>>737322492They're the ones who decide who gets fired. And even if they somehow do get pushed out, they're instantly hired in their next leadership position because they're "experts in the field"
>"squad-based rts" controls- basically plays like a 3D Baldur's Gate>All characters have a set of activatable abilities/skills>You can under or overpower skills>Some characters can fly>Some can climb walls or jump good>Destructable environments>Can pick up and throw cars>Can rip out things like lampposts and use them as weapons>Arguably a better adaptation of tabletop rpg gameplay because of the amount of stuff you can do in gameplay than most CRPGsAs someone that has tried making real-time tactical rpgs, this series is black magic.
>>737321137Well, maybe you should try playing a non-Nintendo game for once. Look, 2 mirrors!
>>737322660Who's money are they spending?
>>737311465I forgot how good this looked.
>>737318980Still my favorite Peach design.
>>737321745I sneezed.
Pray 2009 and the canceled sequel that was in development pushed id Tech 4 to whole new levels, now lost
>>737321908Sounds like a feature you could tie to an npc. Iolo search the packs for the vortex cube please
>>737323025>soullessly staticNintendo doesn't even have to try if this was the "competition"..
>>737323507*2006 my bad
>>737321137Part of it is that there's now the expectation that, since it's been 20 years, you should strive to apply the effect over the entire game, rather than in localized, gimmicky contexts, and that's much harder to do.Part of it is that developers that would be working on small little gimmicky things are shuffled along through the project to instead focus making a passable enough baseline that contractors can then finish, so that any individual dev isn't important enough (by having made something only they can really work on) that they couldn't be fired to save money.
>>737312159Last game I played with it was Fallout and that shit never worked properly. It needing to be exact specific words is what makes it worse, but I guess in the modern age of "did you mean x" smart searches, it could flourish.
>>737321137They have it's called RTX but then you muh optimization tards throw a fit when you aren't getting 256 fps with all the settings maxed.
>>737315630It shouldn't but it often does. The problem tends to be an engine's assumptions about the entire pipeline from input -> game logic -> physics -> animation + particles -> rendering. A big problem unreal had (and still does if you're not careful) is that it's just not set up to let you pull the already calculated data and re-render from a different camera angle. So much is done with deferred rendering buffers that you have to do it all again and not only that, all your GPU particles and animation resolves were all done as part of the render and you can't easily pull that data and re-use it. Means you effectively fully double the load when really you should be like 1.1x'ing it.
>>737323910Nobody likes RTX because it generates fuzzy slop at 1/4 the framerate on cards that cost a grand and up. If it looked like raytracing is SUPPOSED to look and gave us fully dynamic lighting again there'd be a reason to WANT RTX, but instead all we get is worse versions of what we had for no upside. All we have is "path tracing" demo reels that are comparing fancy lighting that should have been baked with awful lighting that was baked by a moron.
>>737324148>1/4 the framerateand here comes the muh optimization tards right on cue. what did i say
>>737315630The second camera trick is incompatible with deferred rendering similar to MSAA.
>>737311465Lol.
>>737320469There's also the fact that differetn consoles are good and bad at different things. Have you seen those Kiwi Talkz interviews with the Metroid Prime devs on youtube? They talk about how new systems aren't able to specialize in the same type of software tricks that old systems like the Gamecube were able to. The Gamecube was really good at transparency effects, for some reason, while newer consoles aren't. Remember the beam lighting fiasco?As I understand it, it's not that the tech is lost exactly, it's that it was only possible on a certain console, and the ways to execute the same tricks simply aren't available on new technology.
>>737311465That's literally the simplest thing ever to do, it's just that modern games would implode if they tried the old way
>>737318356This level is interesting because the water reflection shows an earlier beta version of the map
>>737321908I thought the idea is fine, just hampered in that instance by resolution/screen space. I recall Divinity OS having "magic pockets" or something like that where, if someone in your party held a relevant key, you'd be offered the chance to use it contextually.
the only thing devs can even do nowadays is make mental health lgbt games no one wants
