>cheap>long range>effective>easy to useyou really don't need anything more than this.>but muh poleaxetoo expensive
>>737352618A shield? You're basically unkillable if you have both.
>get parried once>die instantly
>>737352618COUNTER: Iai StrikeThat's all it takes and your dead.
>>737352659>anon thinks real life is just like dark souls
>>737352618>you really don't need anything more than this.but what if
Dragonslayer spearMy beloved
>holds up shieldSorry, I win.
>>737353061You get killed instantly the moment you get hit in the vitals though. Brain/Heart/Guts = You died.
>>737352618>One hand has a kitchen mitten on it>Grab spear>Stab spear user in the face repeatably with your dagger There is a reason why daggers have been the most common weapon ever since the stone ages
>>737352618Long, pointy stick is really the core of all warfare.The arrow was invented with the idea that stick can be even longer when thrown, and the bullet was the natural evolution of that.An ICBM is really just the longest and pointiest stick.
>>737352618>shoots you with bow and arrowNow what?
>>737353323would you bet money on that outcome?
>>737353305Can't hit me tho
>>737353447No I would do it for fucking free because ive LITERALLY done it. Spears are great when you have friends and fucking worthless by themselves.
>>737353385
Spears are cheap dogshit you give to peasants to kill the rival duke's peasants to see who has the most peasants. The sword has been the weapon for heroes and kings for thousands of years.
>>737353567Oh yeah?
Spears are okay. Not cool tho.
>>737353657peasant armies rekt knight armies though
>>737353767>Not coolThis more up your alley?
>>737353746Miyagi is a sorcerer, he doesn't count.
>>737353991Spears are magic staves with a pointy end.
>>737353862No they didn't. Better equipped and trained soldiers hilariously outperform inferior opponents throughout history.
>>737354139The opposite is also embarrassingly common.
>>737354221Only one I can think of was only because the French were being retarded and basically put the knights in the worst possible environment. otherwise I cannot think of anything.Unless you mean shooting with ye olde matchlock guns which is still a tech tree upgrade.
>>737354139true but if you train a mass army of peasants, they can steamroll your expensive knights
>>737353991Miyagi is an Immortal not a Sorcerer. Are you courting death, junior?
>>737354139One well armed and armored and trained man will still lose to three losers coordinating 99 times out of a 100. Real life isn't like a video game.
>>737353305You don't get the Dark Souls bit. In real life you don't dramatically stagger in place for several seconds if someone deflects your weapon. They still have two working feet, two working arms, are 6-12 feet away from you, and can poke you back at any moment. The effective danger zone of the spear tip is a huge sphere in front of the spearman, not just the tip, you can't just push it to the side and then be safe.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igaQww59NY0
>>737354470Did you see what he did in the first movie? That power was strange and unnatural.
>>737354517Not even, three losers are too weak to overcome the fear of being stabbed, the trained man will utilize this to his advantage and brutalize the first nearest to him and this will shatter the morale of at least the weaker of the remaining two "Oh shit he got done in?" that moment is enough for the experienced to take it into a 1v1 with the two others. If a leader falls, the rest flee or at least will attempt to: Nobody is suicidal enough unless they are already in a do or die situation with no way out but death.
>>737354603Immortals have mastered the strange and unnatural, seems like you don't know anything about cultivation memes. They are the OG spell-blades.
>literally cheating
>>737352618>cheap>long range>effective>easy to useNot unlike your mom
>>737354752There's a reason OP's mom was called the villager's hoe.
>>737354605>two losers distract trained man>third grabs the trained man from behind>two losers either disarm trained man or rush him with daggersgg ezgive them shields (most common piece of equipment for a loser) and it's even easier
>>737352651Boomerang entered the chat
>>737354808The experienced man will not allow himself to be cornered. You think he survived the field with that little planning and thinking ahead?
>>737354787OPs mom might be the only person in the world that sucks more cocks than he does.
>>737354869He survive because he stay behind gruntwork most of the time and only fight leftover
>>737354932OP clearly learned the craft from his mother. No wonder he's so skilled.
You did buy a box of spearheads for $20 right? After all the guns and ammo are gone, being able to assemble a militia of spear users will basically let you take over the area.
>>737354869Now I am mostly certain you don't really know what you are talking about. The disparity of 3vs1 can only be overcome by an extreme difference like weight class. Assuming no weapons, as soon as weapons come in the outnumbered guy is pretty much screwed trained or not.
>>737355170nah i'll just strap kitchen knives to stickswait what do you mean after the guns and ammo are gone?
>>737353862In certain, specific contexts, e.g. if they could use surprise or the terrain like mountains or swamps to their advantage. But if you look at medieval peasant uprisings in general, they ended the moment the nobility got their head out of their asses and raised an actual army. Things also went better if there were already militia structures in the country (see Flanders or Switzerland), but at this point you're not really talking about a peasant army anymore.>>737354517Yes, reality isn't like a video game, but you've got it the wrong way round. If you have three untrained peasants with a pike or a pitchfork fighting an armored knight, they won't hold their ground to coordinate some martial arts shit where they impale the horse and then pull the knight down. They will try to form some sort of hedgehog and then get ridden down. And that's assuming that knights and men-at-arms just show up by themselves, and don't bring some archers along to pepper the peasants with arrows before charging.
>>737354719How can you even win against that?
>>737352618pointy stick good kill big beasts
>>737355298You know what I mean.
>>737354817>throw boomerang>it doesnt come back
>>737352618>too expensivesome chud in plate is going to rape you to death because you went with the cheap pointy stick instead of the weapon that arose specifically because everyone started wearing better armour
>>737352618Poleaxes were expensive because they were made for knights to fight other knights. Rank and file used weapons with much simpler construction like pikes and billhooks. Pic related, an early English billhook. It looks a little wonky, but it's a peak performance polearm that ticks all the boxes of a halberd of chopping, thrusting, and dismounting. Arguably better than an axe head halberd at dismounting
>>737354416If they die, so does your kingdom. There's a reason mostly sons went to war.
>>737355470I thought it's a guardian weapon, not a soldier one.>>737355469Basically the bomb suit of the medieval times.
>>737354597how does the sword even win?
>>737355583Only if the sword guy is much better. Doubt that happened often on this planet.
>>737355170My $39.99 stainless steel wall hanger katana will carry me through the apocalypse.
>>737355541>I thought it's a guardian weapon, not a soldier one.The British used billhooks extensively on the battlefield. The fact guards would protect important people with them just proves how effective they were despite originally being a modified farming instrument.
>>737355541>I thought it's a guardian weapon, not a soldier one.Generally the ones used in wars had longer shafts.
>>737355583Have armor
>>737355748The point is being able to arm a small group.
>>737355215>weight class.There's no such thing retard that's apples to oranges. There are just "those guys" in the game better than you and stronger than you and able to take 1:10 on in a brawl or even just a shark-tank type of scenario where its non-stop brawl one after another. You just wouldn't get it.
>>737353287>ACK
>>737352618>too expensivefuck off, serf
>>737355990A small group will eat some of my stash of junk food. I work alone.
>there were blacksmiths who practice years of sharpening blade>Then there was a guy who put slap of iron on stick
>>737356365Full plates hate this trick
>>737356406I feel like you would die regardless of protection if you got hit by iron chunk
>>737356365>>737356406The mace is one of the most overrated melee weapons these days. They couldn't crush plate armor like pop culture leads us to believe and swords were overwhelming more popular and even knights usually preferred carrying swords when fighting armored opponents. Maces were actually more of a cavalry because they're poor infantry weapons
>>737356472Plates protect well enough from sharp metal
>>737355356The Roman maniple is just the phalanx but better. Same style of combat but flexible to on the fly alterations or navigating uneven terrain. They stopped spray painting their abs though
>>737356631>poor infantry weaponsExactly. I'm not saying that maxes are better than swords. Swords were the knights prime choice. Halberds were likely a close second. I'm saying exactly that maces are cheap and surprisingly effective. A mace is better than a spear to fight a knight and arguably a long and sturdy stick might be better than a short mace.
>>737355428Boomerang left the chat
>>737356821I've looked it up and every single thing i thought was just wood all turned out to be reinforced with metal whenever possible. So I actually doubt just picking up a big wooden stick off the ground would actually work due to the sheer lack of any historical anecdotes about this. outside the myth of Lancelot where he is considered to be absolutely legendary for pulling it off as a notable feat.This reminds me of people expecting all the small weak calibre bullets, even metal pellets, to penetrate armor like wet tissue paper but then be surprised during streamed or recorded video footage showing that the armor didn't get punched through with everything as expected (still gets caved in though). Or guys making properly silver soldered chainmail and knives wouldn't be able to penetrate, proving that other guys were actually shit at making proper chainmail when showing it to be weak in their own video demonstrations.
>>737355583shield + rushing down
>>737357346>wooden stick off the groundObviously not from the ground, but an actual weapon.
>>737353862peasant armies got rekt 99% of the time
>>737357346>This reminds me of people expecting all the small weak calibre bullets, even metal pellets, to penetrate armor like wet tissue paper but then be surprised during streamed or recorded video footage showing that the armor didn't get punched through with everything as expected (still gets caved in though).>Or guys making properly silver soldered chainmail and knives wouldn't be able to penetrate, proving that other guys were actually shit at making proper chainmail when showing it to be weak in their own video demonstrations.Never saw that. Are we talking about zoomies? They are dumb, you know?>calibreIdk what to tell you. Some work better than others. It's an optimazation of surface, mass and acceleration.
>>737357645Armchair generals and keyboard warriors taking a page out of entertainment mediums isn't exclusive to gen z. Merely just a pointing out that things aren't quite what people were expecting to happen from so called Common Sense.
>>737356189why would you wear cologne
I really hate how shit they made spears. thrusting swords and heavy thrusting swords wins out as the shield poke weapons and as power stanced. I think spears wins out twohanded tho.
Not a single game series made spears as cool as Nioh.
>>737354139>>737354221>>737354406https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Visby>2000 knights vs 2000 peasants>Knights win with 300 casualties
>>737356189these would suck as a thrusting weapon. the telescoping locks fails on any real stress applied along the shaft.
>>737355583Ask the Romans.They managed to conquer 75% of Europe and MENA with swords and shields, primarily using their spears for throwing.
>>737352618Yeah, I used to a part of medieval reenactment group and let me tell you, there is nothing scarier in 1v1 combat than a faggot with a spear. Even the shield won't help you much if he keeps stabbing your ankles.
Can your weapon defeat this
>>737356006>Miss leg (or simply bounce off it if you hit a greave)>Swordsman chops your arm off (or breaks it if you are wearing bracers)
>>737358665>ACKKK
>>737358621>got raped by germanic tree dwelling spear chuckers
>>737358621>Quintilius Varus, give me back my legions!
>>737358690>Be in group of 500 men on frontline>Rows and columns of fighters in every direction>Man with shield and sword comes sprinting at you with shield raised, head barely visible over shieldtop>You try and jab at his shins, a narrow target, and miss>He is now in sword rangehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_of_pike#/media/File%3ABad-war.jpg>No room to move your fuckhueg spear because you're surrounded on all sides by men>It can only go straight up or on the ground >You go to pull out your short sword which everyone sane would carry alongside a spear>He chops your fucking head off and/or goes under your shield and stabs you in the ribs
>>737357814>things aren't quite what people were expecting to happen from so called Common SenseIf you think it's bad already, you in 10 years from now are in for a surprise of colossal propirtions
>>737358934>DOUGH
>>737358548Pretty good for peasants. They killed all? Don't forget that knights can have up to 6h training per day. They started with 5 or 6 afaik.
>>737358764Ye, after Rome collapsed. Overstretched and overfed. Praetorian in their prime were second to spartans. Much later the auxilliares were the peak warriors, at least those who were able to survive.
>>737356631It doesn’t need to crush plate. While it could maybe dent it with a good enough swing in optimal circumstances, the point of a bludgeoning weapon like a mace was to treat armor as a somewhat inconvenient obstacle by way of imparting enough force to damage the soft flesh beneath it even if you never punch through the plate itself. If you actually do manage to hit hard enough to damage the plate then that likely just means you’ve utterly mangled whatever was under it.
>>737359287A couple of hits to the head will incapacitate any knight. Problem is placing the hits.
>>737353627yeah I'm sure your LARP with foam weapons gives you a better insight than hsitorical commanders
>>737358963>Literally shows the spear missing >Also doesn't disprove my point about massed combat at all because it's a 1v1, which were actually very rare to occur until after formations had broken
contrary to modern memes maces were SHIT against armour (when unmounted)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbiGZNNs2oI
>>737360217>missing>spear is literally bending from the impact
what the fuck are you supposed to do against this?
>>737359838>Problem is placing the hits.Therein lies one of the weaknesses of bludgeons. You needed to really put your back into the kind of swing that takes down a fucker in armor even when letting physics do half the work for you. While obviously no one’s going to do a full on cartoony wind up like some lumbering oaf going for a home run, you still leave yourself pretty open. This on top of comparatively poor range for anything short of a pole hammer made maces and the like a high risk; high reward deal.
>>737360264>the like a high risk; high reward dealThat's what being poor nets you. It's literally your best bet.
>>737360246Walk around them
>>737360375but the knight would have a poleaxe on his own though
>>737352618I know it's the pendulum swinging back from people thinking swords are the coolest things ever, but the sword vs spear question is really just completely meaningless. It's like trying to argue a shovel is a better garden tool than a rake, it's just a pointless comparison because the tools exist to solve different problems and be applied in different ways.Anyway ignoring that, the real ultimate tool of battle is armor and shields. Unless you have something that can completely nullify armor the guy with better armor will win a 1v1 literally every time. There is nothing more powerful in a fight than being able to do more than your oppenent, and every section of your body you can make not a crippling or lethal weakpoint opens up a massive box of possible moves at every moment you could pull compared to your enemy, and that difference in available options doesn't take long to become utterly insurmountable.
>>737361063Shields suck and almost no one ever used them. Pretty much everyone used two handed polearms.Romans are like the only notable empire to make it work but even then their success was more closely related with their logistical output than their tactics.
>>737361136absolute retard. Entire Europe used them for centuries
>>737361306No, they didn't.And neither did the asians.
>>737361063
>>737361136>Shields suck and almost no one ever used themThat's just bait.
>>737361347yes we did Rajesh don't fucking teach me about my history
>>737361585Nope, everybody used polearms.
>>737352618Spears were a formation weapon, good luck charging into a pear wallBut if a sword/axe and shield lone soldier faced a spearman he would easily fuck him up
the perfect weapon was katanaeuropoor swords>heavy>blunt>users lacked fineseKatana>fast>cuts butter like armor>used by objectively best warriors in history - the samurai
>>737353183Sword spears really are utter kino.
>>737359898Real weapons you stupid sexless neet go outside
>>737360394>Swords>uniform perfection>Polearms>varied mental illnesses
>>737362010>real medieval weapons in 2026lol
>>737362010How many enemies have you slain in the name of your king, mighty warrior?
>>737361820>be japan>only ever fight other Japanese>finally get invaded by a foreign force>"I studied the blade for centuries for this moment">get absolutely demolished>but muh japanese samurai
>>737362225never happened seethe cope + you're a gaijin
>>737360217You're a fucking retard. This isn't Dark Souls. You really underestimate how quickly you can maneuver a spear around, and are completely mind blank if you think someone with a sword can beat someone with a spear if they are of equal skill more than once out of ten times.
>>737360246Lots of arrows. From all directions.
>>737353183Need more vidyas with sword spears. They're cool as fuck
For me it's the halberd.
>>737353862Commie fantasies.In the real world military elites almost always win and it isn't even close.
>>737361585>BCE
>>737362737true, one notable exception was this but that's because danes are utter faggots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hemmingstedt
>>737352618There isnt a whole lot of room to make cool designs so they rely entirely on their moveset to be notable, and usually games just opt to make them poking weapons with nothing really going on in terms of move sets, they forget that theyre suppose to be fast as fuck with low stamina requirement paired with that range, but can commit and full on impale and take enemies off their feet more easily than other weapons.So they SHOULD be versatile in that they can do low requirement fast attacks but can also commit and do big finishers, where other weapons would be better at doing something more in the middle. Theyre just not made interesting enough mechanically.
>>737363007>After seizing the village of Meldorf, the ducal army advanced, but was stopped at a barricade equipped with guns. The defenders opened at least one dike sluice in order to flood the land, which quickly turned into morass and shallow lakes. Crammed together on a narrow road with no solid ground on which to deploy, the ducal army was unable to make use of its numerical superiority. The lightly equipped peasants were familiar with the land and used poles to leap over the ditches. Most of the ducal soldiers were not killed by enemy arms, but drowned. The conquest attempt was thus repelled.Ewok tier shit. The image of some peasant pole vaulting their way towards some drowning knights is hilarious.
Rapiers are cool.
>>737363007>Most of the ducal soldiers were not killed by enemy arms, but drowned.Grim. Imagine being a Landsknecht surviving numerous pitched battles only to drown because some swampfolk tricked you into trying to cross the wrong patch of mud.
rule of cool
>>737353061I do hema, it is *exactly* like dark souls
>>737363329>The image of some peasant pole vaulting their way towards some drowning knights is hilarious.someone post the mud wizard webm
>>737355170You do not realize how much ammo or how many guns are on this planet. We wouldn't run out for a loooong time.I fucking hate Dying Light 2's shitty story about all the ammo and guns running out fuck you fuck you fuck you.Sorry, needed to get that out of my system.
>>737354416If you train a mass of peasants you don't have a mass of peasants anymore, you have a mass of very expensive trained professionals.
>>737361585>BCE / CEreddit fedora alert
>>737352659Let's see how you will parry fast thrust. Oh yeah your hands are gone and also your chest/neck got nice hole and you are dead
>>737355583Without a shield or armor? It kinda doesn't without a massive skill gap. With shield or armor? Tank/parry a hit and rush in, spearman ded.Or well, historically spearman drops spear and draws sword, not like it was ever typical to use a spear without carrying a sidearm. Funnily enough giving a shield to both favors the sword
>>737360246Throw a bowling bowl
>>737352618I mean, yeah. There's a reason polearms have been the standard for militaries going back thousands of years, at least until firearms completely took over
>>737362737Nobunaga conquered Japan with a conscripted peasant armyGuns fucking rule
>>737362281Your useless samurgays got demolished by guns and im fucking glad I'm white and not losers like nips that were forced to build Jeep toys from scrap post ww2 lmao no body got more humbled than they did not even Germans
>>737352618>you really don't need anything more than this.You really do.>enemy closes in>fighting indoor>primary weapon breaks>any amount of armorThere just isn't any such thing as "you don't need anything else" weapon.
>>737364479No he fucking didn't, one of his main advantages was how strongly he pushed military reforms centered on professionalization of ashigaru, and even the most feudal of levied troops during sengoku were kind of semi-professional by virtue of their military obligations being expected and therefore prepared for
>>737365082AKA he taught peasants how to shoot Samurai
>>737365302UHM AKSCHUALLY that doesnt fit my narrative because im severely autistic and am unable to frame things in any other way
>>737365302Yeah but not conscripted peasants, hired peasants.
>>737356006>>737358690>>737358963Ah, yes, I love LARPERs who pretend spears are like Wolverine's magical adamantite claws and just phase through armor like metal.Here's a hint for you, spearfag, they weren't used out of mass formations and static defensive positions like gates and walled fortifications. We have many, many sources from the time periods where spears were used, and they weren't used out of mass formations and static defensive positions. No, don't try to cope with, "That's just because they weren't convenient to lug around." If they were as effective as your larping pictures showed and all you spearfags larp about with "speed" then they would not be too inconvenient to lug around for a melee "I win" button that a spear would be. They were quickly replaced by halberds for the poor saps who had to carry them for reason, and it is because spears suck outside of mass formations and static defensive positions and adding an axe head made the spears not suck balls.
>>737365663>OUCH
>>737365663>"That's just because they weren't convenient to lug around."Although your post is mostly correct, you're massively underestimating the impact of this bit.The list of people who preferred dropping gear to lugging it all (even those who had servants for it and only had to carry it in battle) is endless and goes from the lowliest peasant to kings and emperors.
>>737352618Main: Spear Side weapons: 1h sword for close quarters, 1h hammer for close quarters against armorIf you play games with various weapons any other way you are doing it wrong and are probably some anime addicted trannoid that thinks katanas are good weapons or that they were the main weapon of Samurai
>>737358621>Do you know how the gladius was used in Roman formations? First each legionary threw a light pilum, then a heavy pilum. These broke up the enemy formation, getting stuck in shields or people, much like arrows would but moreso, as the weight of thew pilum would drag more on the shield. Then they drew the gladius, but used the scutum to bash the enemy front line at arms' length to force an opening, finally using the gladius striking with the point around or over the scutum to get the disabling or killing blow. It was still very much a stabbing weapon, with edges rarely used, much like very short 1-handed spear.
>>737356006>winning a fight against someone by poking the front of his shin pure fantasy
>>737355583>>737358665>>737365663>One of the key advantages the spear holds over the sword is distance. Now, I don’t say “range” here, because obviously a weapon can have immense advantage at longer ranges, but be found to be lacking in close quarters. The spear, on the other hand, can be retracted to any length, allowing it to perform effectively well outside and even well inside the reach of a sword. This means that throughout a fight, the spear wielder would have complete control of distance, as they can keep the sword wielder at bay, with far reaching thrusts and cuts, while simultaneously being able to pull the length back should the sword wielder manage to close in.>Unlike a sword, a spear can change the direction of an attack incredibly quickly, oscillating between the feet and the head with barely any motion. This is because of the length of the spear. Much like a lever, a small amount of motion in the back translates to enormous motion on the front, so a small movement of the arms can extraordinarily quickly bring the weapon to bear on a new target. The result is that parrying a spear thrust or cut, even if you have a shield or buckler, is incredibly difficult. while a swordsman’s arm needs to make an enormous motion going from the head to the feet, it takes little effort on the spearman’s part to make the same transition. The result is that if a swordsman is deceived by a feint for even the tiniest fraction of a second, the spear can already be thrusting into a completely different part of their body. Even if they do manage to catch this, the spearman’s disengage can be made so quickly that any opening the sword wielder leaves will be taken advantage of.(continue)
should I get into some sort of swordfighting or is it just a dumb fantasy
>>737366017>Contrary to popular belief, the spear is an excellent weapon for parrying. It is speedier than the sword, but it also holds another key advantage - that of leverage. Because of the length of the weapon, and the wide placement of the wielder’s two hands, a spear is incredibly hard to displace. Not only can it easily disengage from a swordsman’s cut or attempt to displace the head, but even at direct contact, a spearman would have little difficult shoving aside a sword blade before lunging in for the kill.>Now, many might think that the solution to this is to cut off the spear’s head, but this is not at simple or easy as it might seem. The blow itself would be difficult to land on the ever moving spear, but even beyond that, it would take significant force, meaning that the blade itself would need to be heavy (and therefore harder to land a blow with) and the perfect angle to prevent it from simply bouncing away. This is a likely occurrence, especially when one considers that the spear is suspended in the air, not supported firmly from underneath. In addition to that, as shown in the picture below, many spears or other polearms had metal langets running down the sides (or were made entirely out of metal), resulting in almost zero chance of the swordsman effectively carrying out a decapitation>Throughout medieval history, the polearm has been the weapon of choice, not only of the foot soldier, but of the military nobles such as the Samurai or Knight. In Japan, the Naginata or Yari was used as a primary weapon in battle over the Katana, and in Europe, Knights would usually carry lances, or other weapons such as the bardiche, only using the sword out of necessity. The sword was known as a “sidearm,” as it was an easily carried weapon in civilian life, and a great backup on the battlefield. However, few soldiers ever charged into battle with only their swords in hand.
>>737352618I need less
>>737365720No one wants to see you fighting overweight guys
>>737352618dragoonfags just jump to their death
>>737366278das rite
>>737366017>The spear, on the other hand, can be retracted to any length, allowing it to perform effectively well outside and even well inside the reach of a swordThis is stupid, as at that point the spear becomes just halfswording but much worse, and most polearms came in shortened variants specifically because this kind of maneuver was absolute ass in practice.The rest is just schrodinger's spear, which is held exclusively where it's the most convenient at any point with hands never in the wrong place, so we pretend it's all pros and no cons.>Now, many might think that the solution to this is to cut off the spear’s headNo, the solution is grabbing the spear, which is something that was commonly done with swords on a thrust, nevermind with a pole.>Throughout medieval history, the polearm has been the weapon of choiceMassive goalpost shift, we've gone from schrodinger's spear to schrodinger's polearm. A spear is not a lance or a naginata or a halberd or pollaxe any more than a rapier is an axe.
>>737361820Japs actually got their asses kicked by drunken portuguese sailors using rapiers. So muh katana worship falls flat when you look into reality.
>>737367052>Grabbing the spear when the spear guy have massive advantage in leverage especially with two handsAdjusting grip is also more common than you think for duelists. There's a reason why the Chinese called the spear the "King of Weapons"
>>737360246Uneven terrain
>>737368052They're literally the answer to uneven terrain
>>737353061>He is so brainrotted that he thinks "parrying" means last second deflecting an attack No, you retard. All you have to do is hold a shield to the tip of spear and bum rush them. You WILL get shanked before you can change the grip of the spear to use it in close quarters.
>>737368196Really uneven terrain
>>737355583you have a shield, you knock the spear away and then use the surface area of your shield to keep it off balance while advancing towards the spearmen. You typically have a shorter sword you can actually swing or stab with once you are close enough. This still wasn't really foolproof and formations of men could result in impossible situations where someone is going to get fucking skewered by 8 dudes but guy with sword and shield is how you counter it.
>High Medieval Weapon>Weird ass shape with blade, hook and bludgeoning sides>"So how do you use it?">"You trip a guy then throw it away and shank them"Every time
>>737352618It's always wild to me that games/movies always portray swords as THE weapon, when spears are objectively better in most ways and were the best melee weapon in every civilization for thousands of years. The more I think about it the more I realize I don't actually know what the fuck i'd do if someone was fighting me with a spear.
>>737352618Normally I prefer maces. But lately I've been in a hammer mood.
>>737352618Silver knight spear is the goat in design and function.
>>737352618All you do is poke, the melee isnt dynamic like a sword thats why humans like sword combat
>>737368525A sword gets used more often for similar reasons as to most modern action movies use pistols, or why cowboys use revolvers. They're portable. Most main characters aren't fighting on opem battlefields. They are usually more independent, and have to do a variety of tasks that are beyond fighting a monster or two. A sword can be sheathed when you enter a house, well a spear must be surrendered at the front door. A sword can be sheathed when you need to push a block or solve a videogame puzzle, a spear can not. A sword can be sheathed when you need to climb a mountain, a spear would be best left discarded. A spear is great until you need to do an action that requires both hands, then it becomes a liability. Same is true for all polearms.
>>737360246The historical record shows that for this purpose, barbarians kept stockpiles of menhirs to throw at them
how would you respond without sounding mad
>>737369245MORE LIKE BORING STAR
>>737369245There's no way anyone seriously used these
>>737369245Why would I be mad? Flails were in fact real weapons. Albiet that one handed version was more often used by cavalry.
>>737367604>Grabbing the spear when the spear guy have massive advantage in leverage especially with two handsYes. The point is not capture the spear, it's just to create enough of an opening to strike. Even just slapping it aside is both doable and convenient as I actually have a significant lever advantage over your ability to place the tip, you're basically forced to recovery if you want to retain control.>Adjusting grip is also more common than you think for duelists. The point is not the grip can't be adjusted, it's that you can't act like you're enjoying the advantage of every grip at all time just because you can change it. Recovering and changing grip are openings.>There's a reason why the Chinese called the spear the "King of Weapons"And that reason isn't that it's the universally superior weapon that always has the advantage, but that it's contextually superior in the battlefield, which they considered the most important. If it was outright superior they wouldn't have bothered with jian, dao and gun.It's funny you mention chinese martial arts since they actually feared the tip grab enough to routinely add tassels to their spears to hamper it.
>>737352618ENTER
>>737369813>KatzbalgerI kneel
>>737352618The ultimate weapon, making swordlets seethe since the dawn of time
>>737365663>they weren't used out of mass formations and static defensive positions like gates and walled fortificationsMostly because warringnwithout a formation is paramount to suicide, real life isn't like Hollywood where enemies will let you dance around them. Spears were the weapon of choice for infantry and cavalry for millenias, basically only being phased out once that guns became commonplace.
>>737354517Not even true in the modern day, cops win far, far more often than they lose. A big part of it is like that other anon stated: trained people have far stronger nerves than untrained people, and so they won't make extremely stupid decisions that will put them in a bad position.
>>737363324dark souls had low requirement fast spears but they give them simple movesets to keep it balanced for gameplay
>>737352618Weld a hook onto it and we'll start talking.
>>737369245It should be biggerLike a ball and chain
>>737360246Cavalry and archers simultaneously
>>737355583By dual wielding swords
>>737353183Why don't these woke companies just make African zulu warrior souls where you fight giant elephant demons and shit with just your ilkwa and ngumi?
>>737357346Pretty sure 9mm goes right though any medieval armour
>>737353183That looks kino, but you're trading useful leverage for swag.
>>737353385arrow is just a projectile spear
>>737361820I can apreciate a lot how a land so poor in iron could still refine their swordmaking as much as they did.
The ahestetic man fear the lantern shield.
>>737374205I don't like that Japanese trait of focusing on something autisticaly well beyond the point of diminishing returns and never really innovating either
>>737374372Works well when there's something new.Japan was about to overtake america as a world economy in the 90s due to how much autistic innovation they did on newly develloping post-war tech.
Consider the following.
>>737374510I think they just had relatively low wages and government investment the way China has now, Japan isn't really leading globally at much now with all their boomers still being in power and zombie corporations crowding out any new business
>>737360246Launch insects at them, such as bees or scorpions
best vidya spear is pillars of eternity cause you can stand behind your other feontline fighters and still hit the enemy in 'melee' cause of the extra range
I also need a slightly chubby barefoot wife
>>737369653>Try to grab the spear>Spearman quickly remaneuvers the spear and stabs you in a prime spotGreat plan, dumbass.
>>737362846>>737364057Of all the things to larp as, a trad christian is one of the most pathetic
>>737376268What is CE based on?
>>737352618>wears armor>bashes your fucking helmet in with a poleaxeOR>bashes your fucking face in with a poleaxe because there's a high chance if you're using that, you're poor and untrained
>>737366043Yes for both. You might even score some nerdy chick from it.
>>737366043It's a good sport, make sure you pick HEMA instead of fencing.Works your body, there's an adequate level of violence while not making you a retard for doing it too much, if there's a fatso that goes "erm ackshually my katana would win" you can just prove the guy wrong on the spot.
>>737369387horseback weapons, basically a hammer that won't disintegrate your own wrist after the first hit due to 5 lbs of steel hitting someone at horse speed + swing speed.
>Charges at you with the triple partisan chariot with swords on sidesWhat the fuck can you do in this situation?
>>737378885Elden Ring miniboss type shit right here
>>737359045>Praetorian in their prime were second to spartans.Rome had superior artillery, armor, base building, and logistics. People tend to lump all of antiquity together, but at no point did technology stop advancing, and Rome's imperial pursuits led to information traveling much more quickly. As they say, all roads lead to Rome.
>>737352618>some fancy schmancy metal pointy thingtoo expensiveacquire a humble stick
>>737376268You don't have to subscribe to the trad meme to hold the opinion that BCE is utterly retarded change for the sake of change pushed by woke academics. There'd be an argument for it if "year 1" were moved to a different date like 49 BC when Caesar crossed the Rubicon, since that was the death knell of the Roman Republic, but since BCE/CE still refer to the transition point in history as the birth of Christ, then BCE/CE may as well stand for Before Christ Era and Christ Era.Again, it's so fucking silly.
>>737379950also anno domini sounds way fucking cooler
>>737378885HOL UP
>>737355356>>737356816Roman maniples won against them sure but what really mattered was cavalry.The infantry was as good as it got if their flanks were protected as soon as you had cavalry you could get a win by breaking their formation and thus rounting the enemy.
>>737379950We're in the year 19 Ai (After iPhone)
>>737380678My goy in moshem it's year 2 BGR (Before the Great Reset)
>>737380429always that one retard with the friendly fire
>>737380827I'm already stockpiling ammo and toilet paper in preparation for the AI crash.
How much until UC? I want my giant robots.
>>737381003Not until at least A.D. 2101 when war was beginning.
>>737352618but anon, what if I miss?
>>737352618Lmao get out of here noob.Look at this. Poke once, make 3 holes. Clearly superior.
>>737358665>fucking retard has never hold a pretend spear stick in his handSpear user would be back in position to attack before swordman has time to take a step.It is just moving a hand backwards while the other guy has to move his entire body to get in reach. Life is not like youtube, your opponent will not stay perfectly still while you land your ebin naruto combo, you moron
>>737380991It's going to be small compared to 2007
What's wrong with tridents and pitchforks compared to spears? Wouldn't more points make them more damaging? Obviously there is something bad since they weren't widely used.
>>737383304They get stuck more easily. That's literally it. More prongs = More tension to remove.
>>737383304Same force over a bigger surface area (more tips) = harder to pierce armourless wieldy (force applied away from the centre of gravity applies a lot more torque)more fragile (same reason as above)what anon already mentioned
Spearfag vs. Swordfag arguments are insane because almost every soldier who could used both. If you were to ask a real medieval soldier that question he'd be confused and/or laugh at you. They cover each other's weaknesses very well. The term "sidearm" doesn't quite do swords justice since modern sidearms (pistols) are (in a battlefield context) useless 99/100 times.
>>737383945It will always be a class thing. Look at how much metal is dedicated to a spear and then look at a sword. A random peasant cannot afford a sword because of the sheer amount of metal, and the quality of said metal, used to craft one. Most anyone could afford some type of metal tool made of lower quality metals and far less material.
>>737356631a sword maker made this post
>>737382451this kills the geralt
>>737353305Armor is more broken in real life and practically worthless in video games.
>>737384139Anyone broke enough to be unable to afford a short sword (the difference between a dagger and a short sword were often somewhat arbitrary) isn't going to be doing much fighting. Peasant levies were rare and generally only used out of desperation, because every dead peasant is one less farmhand feeding your holdings. Even then, there were alternatives to swords for a sidearm, but the minute you get to be able to afford a sword (such as surviving one battle and looting it off a dead guy), most people make it their go-to sidearm.
Don't mind me, I'm just singlehandedly improving your speargame by an order of magnitudes.
>>737352651Only in formation. I'm pretty sure you or I would fight like a retard with a spear and shield one on one.
>>737352618Im just going to throw a big rock at you from really far away cause Im strong.
>>7373740509mm doesnt penetrate SWAT riot shields not sure it would penetrate armor.
>>737374724Id say Japans relative decline has to do more with the housing crisis of the 90's combined eith the banking failure than a specific work ethic,their tech or lack of tech. Hard to recover from something called "the lost 30 years/the lost decade".Also try to superimpose a chart of home and asset prices between 1980's japan and 2020 america. Its not fun.
>>737366043Its a dumb fantasy, there is no real actual organization guiding it or ruleset that is firmly in place, its mostly just fat nerds swinging foam swords. Also every club says they do "real" training and then 99% of the club doesnt have the endurance to jog a half mile.
>>737359045>Praetorian in their prime were second to spartansSpartans were shitters who never won a major war without backing from other larger empires who used them as fodder. They got raped and buttborken by thebes, and then got turned into a tourist attraction for rich romans to brag about besting a dozens spartan warriors in combat.
>>737383945>The term "sidearm" doesn't quite do swords justice since modern sidearms (pistols) are (in a battlefield context) useless 99/100 times.The term sidearm doesn't do swords justice because nowadays service rifles are in effect sidearms.
>>737352618Meme weapon shit for anything but arming the masses of peasants. Shit in a duel or small scale encounter where most video games take place.
>>737365302you mean he converted peasants into trained soldiers?so they WERENT random peasants anymore?
>>737361063The real answer is usually having a spear but also a sword as a back when the spear is too cumbersome or damaged whilst on a battlefield.But for daily carry in you home city a sword is far more convenient.Also have a knife at all times too because sometimes even the sword can be too big/cumbersome for certain things.Be flexible certain situations need certain tools and cost plays into it aswell
>>737352618true, the spear is one of if not the best weapon ever invented by man. arrows count as spears if you think about it.
>>737370496>basically only being phased out once that guns became commonplaceEvent them they lasted longer than other weapons, pike and shot period, not sword and shot, they were replaced by mounting bayonets on the guns, which just turned them into spears that you could use in a pinch, the spear was only truly phased out post ww2 with light assault rifles that are just as good at close range as they are at medium range.
>>737353647FUCKING GENOESE SHITS
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE STOP CHEATING AND FIGHT ME
>>737361585for me it's 1200s
>>737376509combat evolved
>swordfags always say “y-yeah, but if I had a shield…!”Maybe shields are actually the best.
>>737352618spears break easily don't they? also they get stuck in shields pretty easily
>>737355170I live in a country where criminals can straight up make their own guns. If society goes down it will turn into warlord town.
>>737387135>Maybe shields are actually the best.Yes. The strongest spear and sword fags kneel to shieldGODs.
>>737364560Japan's dignity got away unscathed compared to Germany, Germany ceased to exist as a nation and is a zombie now, Japan even got to keep their royal family and culture mostly preserved.
>>737378039What if I wouldn't want a chick?>>737378354>make sure you pick HEMA instead of fencing.Why? I don't know how they differ, but rapiers always seemed fun. I'm not sure what weapons I would have most interest in.>if there's a fatso that goes "erm ackshually my katana would win" you can just prove the guy wrong on the spot.getting to do that would be funny>>737385617It's especially a dumb fantasy living where I do, the closest club of any kind is probably 10 hours away and filled with what you described. I guess it'll stay a dumb fantasy whether I want it or not.
>>737355170>>737387315AFAIK the only really difficult part to reproduce in an amateur shop is the primer, everything else can be easily done with easily accessible tools, guns are not going away ever.
>>737361136On shields, while the a major reason why 2 handed spears where favored is because of how archers were treated.Since archery is a very time and energy consuming thing, and high power composite bows where very expensive archery in places like Asia became the role of the high tier units that are or directly under nobility, and where more used as a precision strike force to flank and break high priority units, so as a result anti archer defenses are more reliant on temporary to permanent structures, armor, and just killing the enemy archers with your own first.To Europeans archery was the practice of peasants who needed to do far more hunting and shepherding than farming(in comparison to the rice centric diet of asia) so archery is how people feed themselves and as a result your average euro peasant tends to be much more proficient in archery than the average asian peasant meaning who have access to a shit ton more archers, they also used much cheaper longbows(because peasants) which aren't as powerful as composite bows and more easily stopped by things like shields and armor, so as a result of having all these damn archers, tactics and equipment revolved around not getting killed by archers, so they focused on armor and shields, heavy cavalry or knights became the nobility class as a result because they're the best people to kill archers due to good armor and fast speeds.And then there's the Mongolians who took the advantages of both sides and killed people with hordes of extremely high power composite bows wielded by guys who've been shooting since 2 all riding horses(they also used shields alot more than other Asians because everyone had bows)
I have no clue what you call these one-handed warpick things. Western sources seem to call them bec de corbin/ crowbills but that term more so applies to two-handed warhammers that have long hooks on the back. Slavs call them klevetz/ klevez I think, and apparently there was a similar type of weapon used in India called a Zaghnal. It's my favorite melee weapon, and I don't even know what to call it.
>>737366043Training quality across groups is obscenely uneven, so it really depends on your locality.Keep in mind that it doesn't top out much higher than olympic fencing. Shit can only get so real without getting dangerous.
>>737387315Making guns with modern metal-working euipment is easy. Making them from scratch in a charcoal forge would be whole another challenge. Ditto for ammo. But on most continents there's enough already enough guns and ammo in circulation to comfortably get by just looting and scavenging.
jeffrey..break out lucille
>>737387506>I don't know how they differOlympic fencing has gone through more than a century of extreme optimization to ruleset that effectively stripped away most of the actual fencing from it.Hema is people studying historical fencing treatises meant to train people to fight duels mainly, so it's what most people expect from swordfighting, but it's a young discipline and it attracts larpers.
>>737352618There's a Chinese spear that's basically a stick with a broadsword on the end, I always loved that thing
>>737388229horseman's pick is the top google search, ya dingus
>>737388676I'm usually very pro-japan and anti-chink, but chinese historical weapons and armor mog japan so hard its not even funny>>737388872sick, I can finally put a name to a face. Thanks, anon.
>>737352618>Easy to useShow us
>>737352618If we had full plate then no. People think balance matters among the common soldier. The only real duels can happen between men wearing full plate armor, and a spear will literally not work at all.
>>737388616I suppose, but is it really so optimised at a local level where people are just doing it for fun? It's not like you can't have fun with chess even if you're "bad" at it.
>>737352618>too expensiveExplain why, it's not like there's that much more metal in itOr better yet quit making excuses and just make the fucking poleaxe, smithslave
>>737386285yeah and they weren't part of the honorabru noble warrior caste that trained bushido for their entire life
>>737375736This is the argument equivalent of a grade schooler saying that his invincible shield saved him and he instantly won.
>>737391206>is it really so optimised at a local level where people are just doing it for funYes, because the "non optimized" form hasn't been taught for decades. It was already dying by the 1940s.Hey man look, I'm not trying to discourage you from trying nor saying it isn't fun in its own way, I'm just telling you not to expect what you won't find.
>>737392210the one claiming that he will just grab the spear that is
>>737391791>yeah buh-but some irrelevant bullshit?shut the fuck up
>>737392319It is a maneuver that appears in most fencing treatises though. There are period gloves specifically adapted for catching weapons in museums.Just because it sounds silly to you doesn't mean it is.
>>737392319He provided multiple historiographically attested claims whereas his mentally deficient interlocutor simply went:>nuh uh!!!There's a reason the average nobleman was about to cut down dozens of spear wielders per battle without injury.
>>737392305Yeah no I appreciate the information, I'm not particularly surprised fencing is highly refined with how old it is and hema being a bit more amateur, it makes sense. Maybe one day.
>>737358665>parries the sword swing>sweeps your legs again making you fall on your ass, breaking your spine
*blocks your path*Simple. Powerful. Effective
>>737392673Lol it looks like a penis stick kinda. One of the main draws of killing people with these I imagine.
>>737392338retard
>>737392836>tries to shift the argument about peasant armies being SHIT because he brought up a NON peasant army>"buh dey werent NOBLES">"reee ur retarded becuz im wrong!"lol
>>737392938no need to get embarassed and post another reply, you're anonymous so nobody can really make fun of you
>>737393086NTA but Ashigaru were not exactly european peasants lmao. Literally all of them were trained to be warriors since youth and they owned all their own wargear, they weren't just random farmers with weapons dumped at their feet. More equivalent to men at arms if anything.They didn't even farm at all by the 15th century they were exclusively paid soldiers by then.
>>737393086>reeee its a peasant army stop saying peasant armyies are shit>look seee these SPECIAL peasants that were trained to be PROFESSIONAL SOLDIERS magically are still a peasant army!yeah no.not a peasant army, dumbass.
>>737384139Maybe new swords. But often there was rusted swords, second-hand swords, etc.
