Why are 90% of video game wizards so lame?
>>737425731hard to balance
>>737426219It's actually all that hard to balance if you just remember to have resource management mechanics. You have great arcane powers, but a limited ability to use them.
>>737425731Please name an example from the left
>>737426597Not any TES game
>>737426597any TES game
>>737426597Pen and Paper/Tabletop RPGsCRPGs that use a p&prpg/ttrpg ruleset
>>737425731Because video games is limited by design themselves. The left one is only possible in TTRPG aka Classical RPG.
>>737426843>CRPGs that use a p&prpg/ttrpg rulesetThese have 2 or 3 actually useful spells from each tier while the rest is at best niche but otherwise mechanically broken or useless.That's even why rigid classes like Sorcerers are so good compared to flexible tabletop RPG Wizards.
>>737426918CRPGs manage to do it.
>create one of the coolest modern casting system>gigarape it into oblivion
>>737426921I haven't noticed this except in a few games like BG3 where the devs deliberately nerfed most CC and utility spells to make players focus on damage instead, which made the sorcerer way better than the wizard.
>>737426948Even then it's not offer the same degree of freedom and creatvity of magic like TTRPG.
>>737427108Sure, but it IS still possible. Wizards don't need to be braindead damage turrets in video games.
>>737427010>>create one of the coolest modern casting system>>gigarape it into oblivion>cave wizard still the strongest build you can play despite thatYou can play on easy if you want to spend even less effort to play the game, you know.
>>737427158>Wizards don't need to be braindead damage turrets in video games.That is true for non-wizards as well, but then wizardfags will cry that spells are "useless" because you can solve problems without magic as well.
>>737426597Baldur's Gate, especially 2. The amount of cool shit you can do with a wizard is insane. In fact this image undersells what BG2 wizard or a sorc can do. >turn the entire area into a chaotic teleporter maze so melee enemies cannot reach you because they get repositioned every 6 seconds>confuse or scare enemies shitless>turn the entire area into a sticky web, then summon spiders that climb the web just fine>gate a high level demon on your enemies, if you don't have protection from evil it will gigafuck you too for a good measure>or send strong enemies to a planar prison forever>whoops, you thought you were hitting me? that's just my copy. the copy had all of my spells by the way, so i can create a new one and fire my entire spell arsenal again>i can also make a wish and it will come true if my wisdom is high enough>transform into literally anything including a mind flayer or summon a squad of magic swords to protect meEven the direct damage spells can be cool as fuck. For example dragon disciple stars absorbing fire damage at higher levels so you can cast incindeary cloud and stand in it, anything that moves close gets cooked and you gain repeated health regeneration.
>>737427293It's not about strength. Current psychosis builds are stronger than tranquility psi was before he introduced a bunch of no fun allowed mechanics. It's about fun and versatility. You cannot play it as a swiss army knife anymore which was by far the most fun part of psi.
>>737425731Because 90% of all games are lame
>>737426597Honestly, Ultima Underworld. It's not as cool as the image on the left but it's pretty close. There's something really satisfying about being able to fly, stop time, walk on water, create food, cast fireballs, levitate, go invisible, resist fire (and thus walk on lava), telekinesis and a bunch more. It's even more satisfying in how you, the player, need to know the rune stone combinations. While the manual does tell you and you can cross references whenever just knowing "Ylem Por" to walk on water or "Jux Hur" to create a shockwave is really cool.
Have you ever seen wizard rob a bank?
>>737427419Magic and mundane classes don't need to be exactly the same. They should operate on asymmetrical balance.
>>737428559I really liked Runescape's magic system.
>>737426597arx fatalis
I just want one good open world rpg where I can feel like a powerful wizard in first person
>>737427010QRD? How did they fuck it?
>casting spells causes overcharge>at high levels demons or random Eldritch creatures spawn near you and attack you
>>737425731Kek
>>737425731>abstract aesthetic nonsensevs>actual videogame
>>737425731Overpowered wizards are boring, they need some drawbacks that balances them out with other classes.
>>737431804>CRPGs aren't actual video games
>>737425731why would i want to sneak around my enemies or turn them purple or make them want to suck cock when i could just vaporize them and not have to worry about it anymoreflying is cool thoughever, a good wizard always fw alteration.
>>737431916A problem already solved with resource management systems. Magical reagents, Vancian magic systems, mana, etc. The key is to make resource management an actual system where your resources are actually highly limited, instead of what you get in a lot of modern video games where your resources replenish faster than you can spend them if there's a resource system at all (like basically every modern MMO).
>ctrl+f "noita">0 results>post this>close thread
>>737432143It's still boring because the wizard will be overpowered and kill you during the short time he has mana
>>737427430Yeah. It's a pretty good reflection of what makes tabletop D&D magic so fun. The actual variety including things that are not just direct offensive and defensive numbers.>>737432364Noita is crazy.The kind of game you can just play over and over and have fun every time.
>>737432414Games with super powerful spells usually have methods of countering them. For instance, charms that protect against getting instant death spells and effects..
>>737431804I can see polymorph and quagmire in the left
>>737432851Holly crap Lois quagmire is a freakin wizard
>>737432748So now all my charm slots are occupied with wards so the wizard can't insta kill me, but he'll still kill me with two fireballs. Face it mr. Frodo, wizards are lame.
>>737425731The left is describing a bg3 wizard, the right is describing wizards in a 90s rpg
>>737431916Generally the drawback of wizards is that they can't just do all that shit on the go, they need a certain level of preparation, and some barbarian can easily cave wizard's skull in if he catches him unaware. Of course it doesn't mix well with the usual gameplay formula, but it can be done. Casting times, limited reagents, spell exhaustion of sort for example.
>>737432364>0 results for magickathat's the real shame
>>737432983You'll complain about anything, huh? Go shoot your bow in the corner.
>>737425731Because right is an actual gameplay system that can exist in a game, while left is a series of abstracts that need to be turned into mechanics first before they can properly exist in a game. Also some of them are so complex that you could build entire games around them.
>>737433308FQFQASA (the steam beam) is a classic, but I found myself keeping a stack of mines in my weapon. A shame 2 is a step back in some ways. I really hope Arrowhead comes back to the series one day.
>>737430446Good game, shame that people don't appreciate it at all.
>>737426219>balancemother fucker its magic, i aint gotta balance shit. i cast butter on yo ass.
>>737426597Neverwinter nights
>>737436057>the crab mageMany faps were had.
>>737425731I call it the japanification of fiction. They took all the "magic" out of wizards because at their very core wizards are beings of pure wonder and creativity and this is at odds with the asian bugmind.
>>737436057>Butter>deal 5-13 dairy type damage and inflict 1 stack of "fat" (decreases water type damage) (max 3) Oh no, anyway
>>737425731Balance cucks.
>>737427430still all combat spells. I'd like to see utility spells or really anything that makes the game experience different in some way
>>737438135What kinds of things? Like using ice and fire spells for traversal in avowed?
Wizards as a class are dull to play because ultimately their balance boils down to tedious resource management and it makes magic as a whole seem pedestrian. I would rather see the only "spells" in the game be effects of high level magic items. Level 1 MCs running around casting fireball at rats is cringe. Magic should be mysterious and powerful and limited so you only ever use it when absolutely necessary.>>737438598sure, any kind of traversal variety is good. Stasis from BOTW comes to mind also
Most faggots want to be a battlemage instead of a real wizard.
>>737438857Battlemages allow you to interact with more of the game's systems instead of just being a fireball-chucking queer in a dress.
Wizards are not main protagonists. They are for lurking in towers pondering shit and maybe passing a fraction of their power to the protagonist on special occasions.
>>737426597Left is mostly describing a collection of cool spells and interactions from older D&D games.
There's a disturbingly large number of people who don't seem to be aware of the existence of CRPGs and think being a cool wizard is actually impossible for game mechanics.
>>737441965Anything can work when you're just reading stories and rolling dice, it's a lot harder to make them work in actual games.
>>737427010It's amazing people still call psy dead when every build worth a shit is either pure pay or a hybrid still.
>>737425731because everything on the left is a pretentious way of saying>sit there and watch the game play itself for youpeople would rather watch a show/movie then "play" a game where you sit back and do nothing
>>737441965People are too used to MMOs, ARPGs, and modern more streamlined games, I guess.
>>737436057NOOOO IS THAT A CLOACA AAGGGHHHH SAVE ME HIROMOOT IM GOING INSAAAANE
>>737442687>Playing Dark Messiah>Baiting enemies>Turn a corner>Cast ice on the ground, make it slippery as shit>They go down like bowling pins as they pile inBut sure, the game's playing itself.
>>737425731Unironically mmos are to blame. Everyone is special, noone is, must be made as shitty as all others
>>737425731Too much work
>>737443019/thread
>>737442795WoW mages have or at some point had>fireballs, blizzards, missile of pure magic>turn the ground into a hazard>levitate, teleport and blink>summon creatures>transform foes into harmless creatures>comprehend all languages>curse your enemiesThe only points that are missing are turning themselves and mind control, those are for other classes.
>>737442450Okay, nigger, Solasta is a TRPG that also does shit like this.
>>737427575Is he turning their entire body into an unrelated skeleton, or is he blasting the organs/skin/muscle off of their existing skeletons?
>>737443220>comprehend all languagesReally?That's pretty cool actually.>>737443246I love Solasta and that they actually implemented tabletop accurate 3d movement.
>>737431467Some OP stuff got nerfed. Some people take not being able to trivialize a combat focused game personally, even though it's still one of the strongest things you can do.
>>737426597Magicka. Divinity Original Sin somewhat.
>>737426219>balanceBalance isn't real and some preddit pseud shit. You can't actually balance anything, all you can do is make the perceived majority (just a highly vocal minority in reality) happy at the expense of everyone else. Which ultimately kills the game 100% of the time in the long term.Its the same principle behind the pursuit of utopian ideals only ever creating nightmare hellscapes people have to be forced to live in at gunpoint because no one but a minority ever would voluntarily. You can't force anyone to play a game so it just dies and the retards that spent all their time lobbying on preddit for 'balance' move on to destroy the next fad. This is why no one can have cool wizards ever again.
>>737443343Your post made me recheck, and it only works for allied languages. Talking with enemies is some random item, not related to mages.
>>737438774>Magic should be mysterious and powerful and limited>their balance boils down to tedious resource management and it makes magic as a whole seem pedestrianwhich one is it?
>>737426597>Baldurs Gate 1 and 2>Icewind Dale 1 and 2>Dragons Dogma 1 and 2>Demons Souls>The Elder Scrolls 3 and 4>Arx Fatalis>Noita>Two World 2>Ultima VII
>>737425731balance has always ruined fun
Same reason other races and evil paths are usually low effort/trash. Because statistics show most people will only ever play a goody twoshoes human/elf fighter.
>>737425731The kino wizards summon giant alien space squids and go insane in the process. Then the space squids kill the wizard and destroy the world.
>>737442687How do you figure that?
>>737445427So why is fighting boring and bad too?
>>737427575>shit gameplay but with le wacky mod
Magic by its very nature is just hard to balance. Old D&D had the right idea, magic is simply the most powerful force. A very powerful wizard is essentially a demigod. This is balanced by how hard it is to reach that point, and how few magicians would actually exist. But, that wouldn't work in video games where everyone is the super duper special some one who has infinite potential and can master magic to its utmost. That's why magic is always easy to use and is essentially just colorful projectiles in video games. No rituals, no preparation, no study, as all of these wouldn't fit the gameplay of most genres.
>>737444206both, retard. It should be limited by "I have exactly one extremely rare powerful artifact that can cast a specific spell only once per month" not "I can only cast 20 fireballs at rats before I have to wait for my mana to recharge so I can fly over this gap and unlock the door at the end"
>>737443890Game design is balance. How high you jump relative to the scale of the level is balance
>>737446432well, just going down the list>summon creatures to do your biddingaka watch other stuff play the game for you>fly/levitate/teleport around the fightskip playing the game to sequence break>polymorph/debuff/charm/trap/stun/whatever skip playing the game because the enemies can't fight back>read minds/ancient languagesaka skip whatever puzzle you were supposed to solve by investigating this stuffthat leaves "turn into a mighty creature" aka stop being a boring ass wizard that cheeses the game and play it for real and the bottom left which is just a more excited version of the fire/lighting/icebolt stuff that the right is making fun of, almost like shooting explosions at people is the only way to make playing a wizard in a video game instead of a tabletop rpg actually engaging outside of the novelty of going "wow I'm really memeing on this game" in the same way using cheats in any video game is novel for a while
>>737430446Is the game impossible to beat with a melee characterI got to the final act and every enemy completely bodies me. I had to chug every potion I owned to beat one of them
>>737427489>game about making specific builds so you have replayability and pros/cons on every of your playthrough>reee why the fuck can't I just play one build and be good at everythingMaybe skyrim is more suited to your awful tastes
>>737443890You're an idiot
>>737447692And yet plenty of people would love to play a game with that much mechanical depth, planning, and intricacy.
>>737425731DO2 has some of the best wizard gameplay I’ve ever seen. Highly recommend.
>>737448714>and be good at everythingExcept the entire point of old tranquility was trading burst damage for utility
>>737448080Its not and that's a terrible analogy. Game design is approximation of a concept within the means available to do so.>>737449138Eat shit nigger faggot etc etc.
>>737436057Is this porn?
>>737451282Oh yeah.
>>737449138He's profoundly retarded.
>>737448574You seem to be running on the assumption that your magic is infinite and there is no cost associated with doing any of these things.
>>737451624And that there are no other limits or counters too.
>>737426597Rift Wizard 1, 2 and 3.
>>737426597BG1, BG2, NWN1, Pathfinder.
>>737425731Balancecucks have to nerf fun so their idiotic stick-wielding troglodytes can compete with the fantasy equivalent of a drone operator that rendered your build obsolete 3 tech revolutions ago
I remember fucking up my DS screen playing LostMagic. Game had a fun magic system, but triple spells were locked behind a specific route which is kinda bullshit.
>>737452451Pretty much. See >>737448574 - "if you are not hitting it with the stick, you are not playing the game".
>>737425731Do you really want to curse enemy mooks and spend years watching how it ruins their family and household?
