Is Tomb Raider 3 any good?
>>737465948nope. its a piece of shit.>what if we added shitty stealth mechanics>what if we added more obscure interactions>what if we added more shitty vehicles>what if we added more trial and error bullshit but limited your saves
It has top 5 game of all time peaks.
>>737465948this shit is some acquired taste tier, some of the crap is so bullshitty if you're playing the ps1 version you'll question life but it's also good at the same time
>>737465948it's awesome but some levels are dogshit (nevada prison, some sections in london)
>>737465948All the gimmicky stuff would be fine if the game wasn't so drawn out. London is obnoxious with how long it feels. It's probably why I'm afraid of trying TR4 because it's the longest TR game and you're pretty much stuck in one setting the entire time.
>>737470862Setting wise TR4 sucks except for Alexandria. Being entirely set in Egypt is what turned me away from TR back in 99.
>>737465948>doesnt have breast cancerits shit
>>737467329>trial and errorOh nononoonononnonono blud didn't check the map
>>737465948No, the vast majority of levels are tedious.
>>737471053TR4 isnt shit because its one place, its shit because its like tomb raider lite, which is true of almost every post TR3 tomb raider game.
>>737465948The first game and the 2013 reboot are the only good ones
>>737467617Back an hour later to add to this that TR3 is the best one in the entire series.
>>737471275In what way is it lite?
>>737465948I prefer it over 2, personally.
>>737471275How can it be lite? TR4 was the most bloated TR out of the core design era.
>>737471304get out
>>737465948London is the absolute bottom of the barrel of the entire franchise and that includes AoD and the remakes. I can't believe something that bad was approved to be in the game.
>>737465948Its definitely a step down from the previous two games. Its still good though but the levels in this one can sometimes feel way too obtuse in a way that not even the previous games felt.
>>737465948Yes.
>>737467329>but limited your savesThat was not the case on PC
>>737465948>Is Tomb Raider 3 any good?Yeah shadow is the best of the trilogy
>>737465948Best game in the series. Really struggled to beat it as a kid
>>737465948It's a mixed bag.On one had it stepped away from TR2 and 99% of enemies being humans with hitscan guna on the other it over corrected with ridicilously open levels that can hard lock you, the worst save system in the franchise (psone) constant blinl and you'll get instakilled traps. If you drop the game in India i wouldn't blame you.
>>737471641>Its definitely a step down from the previous two games.I felt it was mostly a return to form after 2 had too much reliance on combat encounters. Though 3 definitely had a few levels that weren't great.
>>737465948Story: 1 > 4 > 2 > 3 >> 5Gameplay: 4 > 3 = 5 > 2 > 1Locations: 3 > 2 > 4 > 1 >> 5Bullshit: 3 > 5 > 4 > 2 > 1Go play Anniversary if you want prime TR. Watch the cutscenes of TR1 though.
>>737471964>2 over 1 for gameplayEh dunno if I agree. 2 did have some objective improvements to the mechanics. But, the hitscan enemies got old fast.
>>737471905Well the remastered collection is quite a good buy for anyone interested. At least its three solid games. I don't know about the other remaster though I still haven't bought it. I know that 6 is regarded as quite shitty so it would be interesting to see how they went about improving that game if they did at all.
Which of the first 6 are worth playing?
>>737472275All of them. Outside of maybe 5 and 6.
>>737465948It's fine, but you'll only want to play it after going through the other Core games first. 1, 2 and 4 are each much more worth playing and more tightly designed compared to the meandering thing that 3 is.>>737471964You're obviously being way too harsh on 1, and I also feel you're confusing story for atmosphere in the first place, which would make the first ranking accurate.1 has the best level design in the series, so putting it so low on both gameplay and locations makes no sense. It has weak use of weaponry, but that's a fairly minor fault compared to the strengths it has.
>>737465948I like it a lot, and I'm one of those weirdos who even enjoyed (most of) the London section. 1>3>2>4>5 for me.
>>7374722751, 2, 3 and 45 is just a bunch of random levels with no connection to one another and AoD is a turd
>>737472154With how many hitscan enemies there were, I can only count like, one point where it felt like genuine bullshit, which is that one room right at the end of 40 fathoms. Any other situation they're fairly easy to get rid of. Their AI is retarded and they turn like snails so you can literally run circles around them. Also if you can get shots in at them from a distance, it triggers their AI to run away, giving you an opportunity to close the distance and run behind them. Once you figure this out gunners become the easiest enemies to kill.
Is the remaster fixed now?
>>737472778They kicked out the devs that were actually fixing things so nope.
>>737472778fixed what?
>>737472862>>737472872They hired some new devs that actually broke the game with the new patch that nobody asked for.
>>737472778Just play with TRX and the other decompilation projects. It's better anyway
>>737472958>>737472862Lol?
>>737471428>>737471614you guys dont know ball
this is essayfriends favourite tombraider
>>737473305who?
>>737471793It answer your shitpost unironically, I would go with 2013. It's ass, sure, but at least there aren't as many unnecessary mechanics as those other piles of shit and Lara gets the most fucked up by the end, which is good for boners.
>>7374734982013 is by far the worst of the Survivor trilogy. Rise > Shadow > 2013
>>737473269stop being obnoxious and say what you mean by lite
>>737472701The point wasn't that the hitscans were hard. Its that its not what I play Tomb Raider for.
Thank fuck for GOG's rollback feature, so I don't have to use the new broken patches, but instead use the ones that Gold Edition is compatible with.
>>737473691>Rise being firstFuck off with your crafting mechanics and currency bullshit, it's an adventure series about puzzles and platforming.
>>737473991>it's an adventure series about puzzles and platforming.2013 was a shooter
>>737473991none of it is mandatory
>>737472958Wow wtf? Details on what they broke?
>>737474232>>737472778AI vibecoding is fine guise! just hire an indian and it will be fne!
>>737474232The music is now broken and multiple tracks now overlap with one another, the textures got mixed up, so now the entire South Pacific is tiled in Lara's passport texture, somehow the fucked up the enviroment hitboxes, even though I thought it's impossible and on top of that they added new, buttfuckingly ugly costumes that nobody like. That are in low resolution anyway.
go watch some speedrun of this game.The levels are fucking crazy autistic. I don't know if that's good or bad.
>>7374740502013 had worse shooting than the OG games.
>>737465948Yeah. I think the game's difficulty is backwards, because the introductory India is by far the hardest, while the later levels tone down on the random bullshit that kills you a bit.Also, the remasters modified the Nevada section, so now you actually get your stuff back at the end of High Security Compound. Which means Nevada is no longer a gotcha trap.
So if the remaster's broken do I play the psx versions or whatI was going to pirate anyway
>>737475486Just use the GOG version and use the rollback feature.
>>737473402>>737473402>he doesnt know
>>737474689>I think the game's difficulty is backwards, because the introductory India is by far the hardesttypical midwit take, the india levels are the easiest and most boring levels in the entire game, everything after is significantly harder, london mogs, south pacific, especially madabu gorge mogs times 10india is only "surprising" because of the poison shit, but its incredibly easy to navigate, and platform, it has some mild trial and error traps towards the end, and a tight timed distance run, but thats it, its all stuff you experienced in TR2.Every other level has shit unique only to TR3. And every other level is way more confusing, and has more punishing jumps. India is trap slop, I cant even remember a single risky jump.
>>737475832Eh, South Pacific is ridiculously easy. It's also the shortest, I feel like.The kayak section aside, because that thing is a bitch to control.
>>737475974No the Dinosaur level is literally there and harder than like everything in India. Also the village people enemies there are some of the worst. South Pacific is basically just better india. It has the traps, it has dinosaurs, it has the sinking sand, it has it all
>>737474656The OG games barely had a functioning combat system.
>>737465948It has both some pretty good levels and some pretty bad levels. I liked it more than 2, but less than 1.
>>737474475Glad I beat it early last year and don't have any reason to update it. Tired of these incompetent shithead developers in this industry.
>>737477105Because OG is a platformer about exploration.TR is not a shooter and never will be
>>737471793>trite shooter feat. a shitface
>>737478224But 2013 was
>>7374783372013 is not TR and that shit is not Lara
You think that upcoming Polish remake/reboot has any potential to be good?
>>737478759So you agree with me that its a shooter then?
>>737478809no.
>>7374659483's my favourite of the PS1 titles.Has the best weapons too.
>>737479221>rocket launcher is actually useful, unlike the grenade launcher in TR 2>uzi ammo is more plentiful>desert eagle is a "fuck you" one-hit kill hitscan hand cannon that's great for bosses>mp5 still sucks, because it still requires you to be stationary, but at least it aims faster
>>737478809>UE5no
I hated that game with the passion. The whole game is just unimaginable level of bullshit. For example, death traps. In the previous game you encounter the first death trap only at the end of the first level, once you get used to all controls and gameplay. But fuck getting used to controls in TR3, the very first step you make (and I mean literally the first step) leads into a fucking death trap. This tells you everything you need to know about TR3's retarded game design.
I like Nevada.It has one of the more batshit sequences where Lara fires an ICBM to open the door.Even for her, that's excessive.
>>737478817Yes, but I'm not the anon you were talking to in the beginning
>>737479559I mean, every TR game is harder than the previous one, because it assumes you've played the previous one.Compare the first level of TR1 to TR2 to TR3. First level of TR1 is a walk in the park and you have to be REALLY bad at videogames to die there.First level of TR2 starts innocently enough, but it quickly escalates into bullshit.First level of TR3 starts with bullshit and moves on from there.
>>737479559It was my first Tomb raider game, therefore I never had the perception of it being bullshit difficult. Many games were like that at the time
>>737479287I love using the desert eagle
>>737465948has some unfair bullshit but it's good start with the nevada level, you lose all of the items you have halfway through it and don't get them back
>>737479850Unless you play the remaster. There, you actually get your shit back near the end of High Security Compound.Because when you think about it, it makes sense. What's the point of this "pick a level you want" gimmick if you have to pick Nevada first, unless you want to fuck yourself over?
>>737478809Absolutely noit's unified nuLara shit and not Lara Croft. Just from the trailer it looks bullshit and looks/feels nothing like Lara (reminder that no matter who makes the game, the IP owner is still CD and they call the shot about the portrayal)also it's a remake of the remakealso realismslop
>>737478224>TR is not a shooter and never will be2 says otherwise
>>737471692>PCDIDN'T BEAT THE GAME
>>737480389its trash. so who cares?who wants 3 minute load times on the ps1 port anyways?
>>737479287tr2 grenade launcher was an investment that turned the last few levels into a cakewalk wtf are you smoking?
>>737480280no it doesn't
>>737479287high level players and speedrunners use the mp5 (and tr2's m16) while walking, it's one of the best weapons in the game if you know how and when to use it
>>737480437*spawns 20 mobsters around every corner*
For me, it's Lara's South Pacific outfit.
PFU PFU PFU PFU PFU PFU PFU PFU PFU PFU PFU PFU PFU PFU GET POISONED GET POISONED GET POISONED
>>737480758Stop it, you'll trigger Crystal Dynamics.
>>737480509it's still a no>>737480840>Stop it, you'll trigger Crystal Dynamics.and what will they do? release a comically seething disclaimer?
>>737481046And the funny thing is that for the remasters of 4-6 they didn't even bother with any disclaimers, because they were shit on so hard for it.Even Yahtzee Crowshaw was making fun of them for it.
>>737481151or maybe 4-6 didn't have any content the insane people think is offensive
>>737481192Oh, I'm pretty sure you would find SOMETHING offensive in TR 4-6.
>>737481192since all the things that offend those people either don't exist or aren't offensive at all, it's always legitimate to expect a meltdown from them.Just the mc being a woman shaped like a woman is trigger worthy
>>737465948it's great, only soft cocks don't enjoy it. tr 1, 2, 3, and 4 are brilliant
>>737467329this
1 = 2 > 4 (Alexandria) > 5 > 3 > 4 (the rest)
>>737482223Friendly reminder that TR 2 has Venice and Maria Doria segments.
>>737482264venice is good
>>737482290Venice has an Opera House, the most convoluted level in TR2.
>>737482321>falls down safely at the gold dragon secret>does the balcony jump>banana jumps towards the switch, skipping the boss>3mins clearnothing personnel kiddo
>>737482264Venice and Hideout are gorgeous
>>737482427>the level is so bad i will willingly skip most of iti accept your concession
How bad are the remasters in terms of graphics? I prefer the tank controls anyway
>>737482643They are pretty good.
>>737470862Problem with TR4 for me is the backtracking between fucking levels.
>>737482643Remasters look pretty good. Some people bitch about the lighting, but I don't see the issue.
>>737472275The first one is among the best and most important games in video game history. Not just worth playing, it's a must-play.
>>737472958>>737474475There was a patch a few days after the update, it's all fixed. Why did you leave that out?
>>737483164I am pretty sure the music still overlaps and the lasers in Nevada still don't work.And the costumes are still buttfuckingly ugly.
>>737467329>what if we added more obscure interactionsAs my first TR game, this shit put me off from seeing the rest of the series for awhile. Then I realized this problem almost exclusively just in 3 and 5.
>>737482863My only complaint is it ruins the sense of being deep in somewhere when the caves have a fuckload of holes for sunlight to seep through, plus also grey distance fog when it should be black in cave.
>>7374841634 too. unless you played the significantly easier remaster.
>>737484239I did. What all did it do with 4? I only have 1/3/5 original copies.
>>737484239You mean the remaster having a prompt for the interactable objects? That's actually a godsend in TR4.
>>737465948its the chad's tomb raider
>>737471304https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyVHV7ct4gU
>>737483046this
>>737471304>2013 reboot>goodlol
As a young teenager I enjoyed Tomb Raider 2 and 3 very much, didnt like the 4th and dropped it in the second post tutorial level, never played the first or any other, didnt like legends, didnt play the rest
>>737474689I wished the remasters added a boss battle to the Nevada section.
>>737488996I wish they had a level select with per-level tracking of shit you've done so you can do the floor-breaking/100% items/pistol-only achievements in a more sane manner.
>>737465948Really good. Most people get filtered in chapter 1. I'm among the 5% on Steam who beat the game.
>>737484207that was because they couldn't render a proper skybox on PS1 until quake 2 had to teach everyone about how.
I had fun with 1 and 2, but 3 was a miserable time. It drops boulders on your head 50 times per level. Whole game is designed around trial and error where most of the time you can't predict the traps, have to die and reload. The levers don't show what their open. Platoforms blend with enviroment and you don't know where to go. It's easier to find some secrets than actual way to progress. I pity anyone who played this with save crystals. Game was designed to be played with guide too so some bullshit like the coin puzzle are impossible.I read some articles about devs and it seems the company was in such a bad state and overworked they hated Lara and it shows. They even managed to kill her out of spite in the end.
>>737489626It still drastically changes the mood of the game when I'm supposed to be raiding tombs, not open coliseums.
>>737479607Sure, it's stupid to place the launch control under the exhausts but it was fucking fun to get it going and run away
yes it's amazing but very hard and it assumes that you have mastered at least 1, if not 1 and 2. the first levels in 3 are as hard as the final levels in 1, and it only gets harder from there
Was the TR4-6 pack worth a damn, or is 4 still tedious with the multi-stage layout, 5 still having shit level design, and 6 being an unfinished mess with odd gameplay decisions that can hardlock you?
>>737467329>stealth mechanicsNagga what?>what if we added more trial and error bullshit but limited your saves>he boughted the console versionLMAO>>737465948I'm going through it right now and it's fine, and has some decent ideas. But good lord is the trial-and-error bullshit with the traps annoying. They were already bad in TR1-2, but 3 cranks them up to really annoying levels.
>>737491189they're the same fucking levels so it sounds like they aren't for you
>>737471304>TR2>BadLMAO.
>>737491991>he doesn't know about the stealth sectionsso you never finished nevada or london, gotcha
>>737491991retard
>>737465948I liked 4 more.
>>737472181Apparently they fixed issues in 6/Angel of Darkness that Core never fixed/launched with. I haven't gotten to it yet, but that was Aspyr's "hype" for that collection.
>>737492279I found the hub structure confusing and setting repetititive in 4.Still a good game, obviously
>>737492421>repackage parts of two community mods that already existed just so you could sell it at a higher price
>>737492749To be honest, I was like 7yo when I was playing it, I barely remember anything(though the train level will always stay in my memory). I just remember that 2 and 3 were ok, but I enjoyed 4th the most. I really didn't like 1 because it was awkward and graphics would glitch, I never understood the point of 5th(I also didn't knew english) and I hated 6th with passion. Legend was the last TR I enjoyed and then I kind of gave up on the series as a whole.
>>737471793How could anyone seriously suggest that Shadow is better than Rise?
>>737494278the train level still feels like black magic, platformers in those years rarely had their levels take place atop an actual moving vehicle with an actual enviroment, usually it was just an entire level of visual illusions like skybox shenanigans or a black/blue void so you could keep playing pretend.the train level has an actual moving environment. sure it's a Hanna-Barbera cartoon tier loop and the train moves exclusively forward but it was still very impressive at the time
lol at the consoletardstomb raider will always be a PC first experienceyou beat it with a keyboard or go home
>>737495529t. saves before every jumpyou did not beat any of the TR games but any stretch of the imagination
>>737495209I know, it was probably my favorite level in the whole game actually. The game did a really good job of selling that you were actually moving around and traveling to various parts of Egypt instead of abstracting that into globetrotting via cutscenes.
>>737495529Except Angel of Darkness, which was built around analog input for the PS2, then backporting the tank Lara into it for the PC port a month later.
tomb raider has been consistnetly one of the shittiest games evereven as a child it wasnt funjust tedious low iq gamingits a game for someone if its the firstr time youve EVER played a video game
>>737496291It's 3d Pitfall. Shit is great. Only real complaint is how slow blockpushing/climbing/shimmying is in it, which was something I was hoping the Remasters would have a QoL toggle to speed up.
>>737465948Yes
>>737475974Nevada is the shortest actually. Aside from the weird stealth elements and losing your weapons there's very little bullshit traps or overly long sections.
>>737482863Lighting is mostly just bad in places that were originally meant to be pitch black or very bright. You either can't see shit or secrets that were meant to be hidden are now just in plain sight. It's also really bad for TR1 since you don't even have flares.
I always wonder how much the average person in the Tomb Raider universe knows about the whole Atlantean conspiracy and all the dang dinos that are still around?I mean they know of bigfoot since Lara got on a magazine killing it but all that other shit is it in the public mind as well or is it all swept under the rug?
>>737465948It's great, you really have to appreciate how much thought the devs were putting into the level design
About to pirate the first trilogyWhat am I in for?All I know is: classic controls and graphics may or may not be up to preference. Also boulders, levers and blocks to move
>>737503479It's a grid-based platformer with some very precise movement. The world and enviroment is made of blocks (1 full step forward/1 hop backwards = 1 block). In order to make a long jump you need precisely one full block of windup, otherwise Lara will faceplant into the ground. Don't overthink this, just work with the grid-based movement, it'll save you A LOT of frustration.
>>737500823It's like some vaguely fantastical version of the real world. They obviously know of bigfoot. The South Pacific natives likely know about the dinosaurs on their island, and the Tibetan monks may know about the yetis. I feel like they're just considered every day predators like tigers or lions. Atlantean stuff is probably a complete mystery though, along with a lot of the other magical artifacts. But stuff like Sophia Leigh living forever are apparently common generational knowledge, according to that one merc guy.
This thread reminded me that I was meaning to play the older games. The controls are weird to get used to, it's been so long since I last played them... Right now I'm trying to get here but haven't found a way to do so yet. I just know there's something there...
>>737506184Stand right next to a left wall and press Grab (CTRL). There is a secret hear. Don't jump + grab, it won't work for some reason.
>>737500823It's a stuff of. "Who gives a shit" style that is more or less a common thing in Adventure genre. Since times of Kipling
>>737507214And here I was thinking this required a super precise jump... Thanks anon, I had tried the jump+grab but Lara is just shy of reaching it...
>>737479559KINO
>>737482264I still think Maria Doria is one of the most memorable locations/set of levels in the series, though I have been replaying the game doing a no medipack/pistols only challenge and I can admit there is some bullshit in them.>>737472528I think all of them all worth checking out if you end up liking the first two games, they all have their ups and downs. I expected 5 and 6 to be awful given their reputation but I liked them a lot more than 4, now I'm sad we'll never see what happens after Angel of Darkness.
>>737465948it's better than 2 because they got rid of most of the shitty shooting enemies but get ready to look up what the fuck to do all the time because the levels are huge and they love putting instadeath traps everywhere
>>737509343I do like Maria Doria for it's top-tier and sometimes panic-inducing atmosphere especially if you have thalassophobia, but more often than not this location is a fucking chore.
>>737471793Only right answer itt. Sex with nu lara. Hairy sweaty pussy kisses.
For me it's 2 > 1 = 3 >> 4. Yeah 2 has too much of action but I've the level design to be just perfect there. Italy was peak.I mildly enjoyed playing all of them except for the latter half of 4 which is garbage (despite actually cool locations and nice story). These games are hard to recommend, they offer a very unique type of slow, methodical platforming which is very engaging once you understand how it works, and of course only original Lara is the true Lara. Still all these games are not objectively very good for a multitude of reasons, one of them is the save system.
>>737510635>one of them is the save system.That's really not an issue for a PC release.
>>737510843NTAWhat's different on consoles?
>>737511080Console versions of the games have set points in levels where you can save while on PC you can save anywhere
>>737511278>you can save anywhereIsn't that a problem as well? I finished the game trying hard not to savescum after every obstacle making the game's difficulty really weird.
>>737465948Yeah it's kino.
>killing endangered species, one tiger at the timeYeah, I missed that shit.
No, but seriously, play Tomb Raider.
>>737465948she goes to an african village and just starts killing civillians for their treasure
>>737514210And that's why we love her!
>>737514210
>>737465948Its the most bullshit in the series, and if your playing on PS1 the lighting is too fucking dark.But past that, its pretty good yeah. I like the vibes the best.
>>737515797IMO, if you are playing every TR game in order (TR1-TR2-TR3), by the time you hit TR3, you would most likely be desanitized to the bullshit. And I think the devs thought the same way.Also, I found Nessie.
>>737465948YesPlay the remake trilogies.
Whoever designed the 4x4 controls and that entire section has a special place in hell.
>>737472862This is only valid about I-III. They are still involved with IV-VI as they are co-founders.Also they fixed many things you mentioned here.
Of course you guys don't like the remasters. You don't like gaming here.And Lara's so cute. Such kissable forehead.
My issue with 2 is that too many levels in artificial levels. I like nature and tombs more so for me 3 was an improvement from 2. Though 2 has underwater levels which was nice.The original Angel of Darkness had a lot of boob giggling. Is that still happening in the Remasters?
>>737479559When I first played the TR games I emulated the PS1 versions. I beat TR1 "legit" only using the save crystals the game gives you, I used savestates in TR2 but tried not to abuse them too much, with TR3 I had quicksave and quickload set on left and right side of the Dualshock 4 trackpad that's how much I needed it, I have no idea how anyone could beat TR3 normally without abusing the shit out of savestates let alone beat the game on an actual PS1 with the original save system and scummy save crystal placement.
>>737518951>Is that still happening in the Remasters?Yes.
>>737518303I actually bought both remasters 3 times, once for GOG, once for Steam and once for Epic. For no other reason than to show Crystal Dynamics that I want a return of the classic Lara. It might have worked out, given this new reboot/remake.
>>737465948Im doing area 51 like the 3rd level or some shit. I played them from 1 having ony messed with it as a kid. 3 feels like a fucking slog man
>>737519262Cool.>>737519462Based
>>737465948it is the best.
>>737471870I do my best not to use guides at all. I got stuck like 1 once on the weird trippy levels with the floating guards. I was in a cave with lava and had to jump to water but I spent like 2 hours trying it until my bro googled it to give me a hint and I had to grab for a ledge while I jumped.Nearly rage quit 3 on level on getting lost and then not knowing I could crawl lol. YEAH I COULD AND SHOULD HAVE READ THE MANUAL AND DONE THE HOUSE BUT YOU YOU I GOT STUCK LIKE 8 TIMESit just does not flow like 2 or 1. I do not feel good when I complete a level I just go thank fuck wrap it up lads
>>737518951>too many levels in artificial levelsWhat do you mean? Ancient ruins and tombs are also artificial.
>>737520706I think he means modern stuff. It was a bit weird on a first playthrough but I really enjoyed it. I fucking hate the modern games being in one location it fucking sucks. I think I read that was their original vision or some shit which is us getting saved by tech limits. My first game I ever completed was Underworld and I still enjoy it
Every screenshot in this thread is like unlocking long forgotten memory from childhood.
>>737514210South Pacific is actually melanesians. No one ever gets it right for some reason and think it's either african or polynesian
>>737483046NTA, what about 2 and 3?I played ages ago 2 and I didn't like it and I dropped it, too much shooting. But I'm unsure if I maybe should give another try
any good trilogy mods of late? any map ports?