Post games ruined by the devs pandering to fans, i can think of pic rel and WoW
>>737487217How?
>>737487442Poise and the excess of bonfires
>>737487442Just /v/ still being mentally broken about DS3
>1>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3>>>>>>>>>>>>literal dogshit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2
>>737487217DMC 5 was ruined cause too many people were crying about the level design in 3 and 4 so they casualised it by making it as linear as possible
>>737487493This but only if you count DeS, DS1 and 2 as a trilogy and dismiss 3 altogether.
2>3>1
>>737487773DS2 is worthless shovelware, DS3 is coherent and decent
>>737487773Objectively 1 and 2 have more in common with DeS gameplay wise than all games that came after, no one can deny this
>>737487486DS3's Poise is by far the best iteration of the concept in the entire series. It offer actual gameplay, tricks and matchup around it, instead of the usual braindead "just stack as much as possible for god mode".Only turbo-normies didn't like it because it required above room temperature IQ to use, so they thought it was bugged.
>>737487217
>>737488114>good game design is when you have less RPG mechanics to experiment with also i am smart did you know i am smartGet your head out of your own ass
>>737488027DS2 drops the ball on all other fronts, even basic movement is fucked with strange deadzones, fucked up hitboxes that lag behind you when you roll (not even talking about ADP here). The world is not cohesive or even half as interesting as the other worlds FS has created. DS2 is so obviously made by a different team than the previous games that it's not even funny. B tier game made by B team
>>737487217Pic rel, Duelyst.>Hearthstone, but with a board that turn it into a semi-tactical-strategy game, making it massively more puzzle-y>Double draw per turn (+1 shuffle / turn), make it *way* more active than standard card game since you can pretty much always combo "something" and don't have to fill your deck with 50% card draw>hearthstonefags find the game, immediately screech that it should be 1 draw per turn>entire game balance fucked, game also now way more RNG and less dynamic
>>737488353>less RPG mechanics to experiment with... how is making a mechanic way more involved "less RPG mechanics"?
>>737487869Coherent in its cash-grabness, decent at being a piece of shit. But I probably would have agreed with you 10 years ago when I didn't know any better.
>>737487486shitter>>737488353on the contrary, Dark Souls 3 exponentially increased the RPG mechanics
>>737488563because it requires more investment and tech on the player rather than 'number get bigger me feel stronger' so there's less rpg.
>>737488395>fucked up hitboxes that lag behind you when you rollmore like your brain is lagging behind when trying to make an argument lmao bruhhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWzrjUn02_g
>>737487217>we want mature zelda instead of cartoony bullshit>in the end the cartoony game aged better and became the more beloved gamemany such cases
Glad elden ring brought back the ds2 hitboxes, truly a father and daughter relationship
>>737488767This.>more fashion than any other souls title>tons of weapons ranging from basic to exotic>more npcs with interlocking quests>the most diverse and creative covenants >four endings>optional early access to dlc and lothric castle >pyromancy is actually its own thing with a supported buildIt's easily the best souls game
>>737488892Wow so surprising you're a retard, I'm not talking about the enemies hitbox I'm talking about the players. I suppose I should've said hurtbox. Anyway the players hurtbox stays in place while you roll and teleports towards you once you are done with rolling. I know how pointless it is to argue with DS2 morons so don't bother replying
Noticed how nobody mentioned ds2 in the thread but they still had to bring it up
>>737489013yes, at minute and twenty nine seconds we can see how this isn't true at all, you're confusing grab attack animations with hitboxes
>>737489060Because it's a piece of shit in an otherwise great line of games
>>737489060Yup. It's like these retards got raped by a copy of ds2 and the cops lost the file. The funny thing is it just makes me want to replay it
>>737489112Doesn't really matter when the game also sucks on other fronts, The game looks ugly, the way areas connect makes no sense, enemy designs are often ugly. The game just isn't on the same level as the others unless you're delusional
>>737489134Here's your (you) for your incredible and totally original opinion that fosters quality discussion about a popular series. What an outstanding post. Bravo.
>>737488787>because it requires more investment What?It make every piece of armor useful, since there is a plethora of thresholds instead of just one or two.It let you wear light/mid armor and still get major benefit from it without making heavy armor irrelevant.That's literally *less* investment since the effects can kick in with early and/or "weak" gear, instead of having to hunt down the "best" armor.>and techGod forbid the "le prepare to die!" series actually require some skill once in a while.>so there's less rpgDS3 poise give you the possibility to poise through with whatever cosplay gear you want has long as you know what you are doing.That's way *more* role-playing opportunities than having to wear Havel or Stone Giant.
>>737488114>DS3's Poise is by far the best iteration of the concept in the entire series.So good that from software went back after people shitted them for it, that never happened before and never since.It literally killed almost half of the combos and experimentation/variation on builds, essentially turning the whole game into a rollslop fest where every single enemy devolves into the same game mechanic all the time.
>>737487217Destiny 2
>>737488787It took me out from the game at first, i thought it was a bug, wtf was miyazaki thinking
>>737487217DaS3 is bad because it is phoned in. Most of its content has been churned out very sloppily.Most of the mechanics are incomplete or downgrades compared to earlier entries in the series and most of the areas are stubs.You have gone through half of the game's content after completing the first two non-tutorial areas and you haven't even fought one of the big intro bosses yet, half of the rest of the game's content has just been smeared in a straight skidmark across the rest of Lordran.>>737487869DaS3 is only coherent in the sense that there is very little of it to decohere elsewhere. The game is otherwise very incoherent given that all of the areas have been shuffled into a straight line to make up for how much shit is just missing, like how the Watchers were originally supposed to lead up to the dragon area but just don't anymore, which is why that one NPC is just there for no reason.>>737488114It is crap. DaS2 starting this whole PvP, builds and balance above everything bullshit ruined the franchise.These games are just janky dungeoncrawlers, not some compslop masterpiece.The poise in DaS3 was non-functional for launch until they patched it in weeks after release, so the go-to strategy for the game was using the straightsword, aka the only weapon they actually tested the game with.>>737488892>The roll is broken>Video demonstrates everything but the roll>>737488984TP is bad because Aonuma is bad. WW is still bad because Aonuma is bad.Focus testing a game with E3 trailers does not exonerate the cartoony art style that Aonuma hid from his superiors to avoid being rejected until it was too late to change it.
>>737487493As a video game 3 is a more well polished finished game than 2.As a overall, 2 is way more interesting and different/new experience, 3 is just "remember firelink? remember gwyn? remember le fat guy? remember dark souls 1?"
>>737488114If it was so good why was it abandoned in ER, a wastly superior (and harder) game
>>737489330>So good that from software went back after people shitted them for it, that never happened before and never since.Thread theme:>Post games ruined by the devs pandering to fansSo, yeah we are in agreement.>It literally killed almost half of the combos and experimentation/variation on builds, essentially turning the whole game into a rollslop fest It killed braindead easy mode builds and left shitters with no other option than using the retard-proof defensive option, indeed.
which dork souls is the most fun to go in blind with no guides
>>737489556>(and harder) gameNigga, my level 1 Elden Ring run was by far the easiest of the entire series.
>>737489503Ds3 is actually ''membuh DeS''. since many people didn't play, it got memoryholled almost>Demon souls references in Ds1Blightttown is a referece to valley of defilement>Dark souls 1 references in Ds2OrnsteinGargoyles>Demon souls references in ds3the old monk invades you in farrongreirat's quest is a rehash of stockpile thomasYuria is a ripoff of MephistophelesYhorm's boss fight gimmick is a ripoff of the stom kingEygon and Irian are a ripoff of Maiden astrea and garl vinlandthe mana barFirelink shrine is a ripoff of the Nexus hubSiegward's quest is a rehash of Bior's questLeonhard is a rehashed Yurt and his quest with rosaria where he tries to kill you is pumped from DesThe fat evangelists are a ripoff of the fat officials in DeSThe prison of hope was rehashed in the irythyl dungeon with the enemies there aswell are references to the jailers in DeSMad king Oceiros is rehashed Allantds3's tutorial boss is a reference to Old king Doranthe gimmick dragon fight
>>737489290Everything that there is to discuss about DS2 has already been discussed
>>737489134The last good game in the line was Dark Souls, everything after it is a hackjob.>>737489503They are both unpolished and unfinished, DaS2 just has scope creep and got tied up in a bunch of experimental shit that was fundamentally unpolishable, whereas DaS3 cut everything that could be even mildly complicated and pushed it out of the door.The most ambitious things about DaS3 were literally Elden Ring assets that would go on to be used mostly unchanged like the crabs.
>>737489592>So, yeah we are in agreement.No we aren't, i'm talking about games that got improved by feedback you're talking about a game that was universally shitted on by this change in designe.>It killed braindead easy mode buildsAnd introduced brain dead "Press ◯ / B to win" gameplay, while maintaining all other brain dead easy mode builds like every souls game has.
>>737489648Just start with 1
>>737487217D2 is next in line
>>737487217>Yakuza 7 comes outs>redditors keep crying about not having kiryu>they bring him back in 8 and he hugs all the spotlight from the new MC ruining the game
>>737489657>Blightttown is a referece to valley of defilementWhat, literally every game these cucks make has a "Blightttown", that's not a reference to itself but to the other medias that they take ideas from like Berserk.>Ornstein / GargoylesThis is not a reference just reused assets from my software, a effect of being a rushed and unfinished game.Dark souls 3 just feels like a cash grab nostalgia milking fuckfest in contrast to all other souls game.
>>737489892I'll agree with you, DeS and DaS are the true masterpieces
>>737489648Start with Dark Souls 1.Pirate the non-remastered version if you can.
>>737489648Start with DeS (use the RPCS3 emulator) then Ds1 then Ds2 then play Sekiro.
>>737489892>They are both unpolished and unfinished.In comparison, 2 is not in the same realm as 3 in terms of being unpolished, even more so unfinished.And that the nature of their distinct directions, as you said, dark souls 2 tried new things and a different aproach while 3 just recicle and milk nostalgia.
>>737489416>>The roll is broken>>Video demonstrates everything but the rollHonestly I have no fucking clue what this even shows. What's that little ball left after the roll? Is it Pursuer's or what?And the mess made by ADP makes every single forum thread on this topic completely unreliable, people were inventing thousands of causes for why you get hit when you shouldn't
>>737487217I just started playing this and I'm surprised how massive it is it makes bloodborne look like a joke
>>737487217>>737487486I just want a game like DS1 and Gothic where there's not fast travel for the first half of the game and when it finally gets unlocked, you've already seen most of the world and are ok with it.I despise fast travel from the start in games and is why I'm not a fan of open world games in general.I understand the reason to have it in a large game like Elden Ring, but it kills the immersion for me.
>>737490386>people were inventing thousands of causes for why you get hit when you shouldn'tAnd then with Elden Ring Fromsoft simply gave up on making the hitboxes match with the animation.
I like how all this retardation about muh ds2 hitboxes are because people cant conceive a game where you need to actually evade out of the way of attacks.It almost objectively has much more precise hitboxes than ds1 and ds3's on average but people play these games with iframes up the ass so they think theres nothing wrong
>>737489556They actually patched ER to be more like DS3 poise, you should play it again.
>>737490682ER is DS3 poise except its>actually good>worth investing in>not retarded>by a game with diverse defensive playstylesso yeah its fundamentally the opposite of why ds3 poise is gay
>>737488892There's actually a guy who made a in depth analisis of DS2 hitbox controversy and figure it out that in reality the game has some of the better hitbox in the franchise.What really cause those wacky clips that people post about "DS2 hibox bad" was 1 big mistake on the grabbing animation, the game pretty much reads every single part of the player model as a grabbable partFor Example, that famous pursuer clip happens because the sword touched the player's feet, making the character do that weird teleport to the sword.The hitbox itself is very precise.
>>737490661I like DS2 but tying dodge frames to a tertiary stats that's not even properly shown in the UI was NOT something to blame on the players.
>>737490494There are two hotboxes here, one for the sword and one for the slashing particle effect, they both deal different damage. You're dumb.
>>737487217It might be bad, but it's 10x better than Bloodborne, which is unplayable.
I couldn't find where to go so I stopped playing DS3. I got past the place with the rats and that was about it.
>>737490731That clip is blatantly showing the sword hitting the player anyway. People cant compute how the animation is blatantly wanting you to dodge to the right instead of the left.>>737490760Its a bit silly but consider the following: You dont need ADP. If you arent an idiot you can easily go through all of the game on 6 or 7 adp by actually dodging enemy attacks. You can roll through smelter demon attacks, you can roll through sir alonne attacks, you can roll through velsdat attacks, you can roll through fume knight attacks, you cant roll through ice stallions so youre raped in frigid outskirts, anything you like. Or you could get a shield too.Literally all it takes is using 2 braincells and going "hmm the swing arcs this way... if i dodge this side i wont take damage..."
>>737490782>hotboxesEach of Malenia's buttcheeks.
>>737490728That's a lot of words to say nothing
>>737490945> You dont need ADPYou don't leveling leveling, magic, or 99.9% of the items & gears either.And rolling is emblematic of the series, for better or worse. DS2 is like having a bingbingwahoo game where jumping is garbage, and then Pannenkoek come to tell you that it's okay because you can complete most levels with either just punching and half-A presses. Even if you like using the other options, it's still not excusable to have the main one suck ass by default.
>>737490728ER is DS2 poise even down to some attacks always poise breaking regardless of poise damage dealt vs poise health.But then again thats basically the only differnece between DS1 and DS2 poise, DS3 just fucked itself by making it a special feature of some attacks and weapon arts
Obsessed
>>737491595>People are discussing video games on the videogames discussion board
>>737487217Dark Souls 3 is my favorite Dark Souls.
>>737491538It's not a "special" feature.It just has frames, exactly like blocking, rolling and parrying do.If anything they made poise less special by making it work like other defensive options.Unless you meant that you don't get it on small weapons (since they are anti-poise weapons), but then that's kinda like trying to block physical stuff with a wooden board.
>>737492052>by making it work like other defensive options.Yes, by making it completely irrelevant just roll through an enemy attack (or quickstep, no poise unironically made daggers viable weapons for once) then R1 until the enemy is dead.You can 1 handed R1 a black k***ht to death in 3 because poise doesnt exist, it made everything but the bosses even more boring and brainded than the rest of the series. It was a bad call and good riddance they went back to the DeS/DS1/DS2 system for ER
>>737487217elden ring they removed the kick and map is open world ( i never asked for this )also i don't want early game fast travel i would rather have it like DS1
>boot up the ringed city dlc>wow , that city looks really awesome, i cant wait to explore it!>have to trudge through shit poison swamp first>ok, now i finally got to the city, i can explore>it has a single street and 2 dead ends, path continued into another shit swamp>continued into a mine and tunnels>90% of the ringed city is just an image in the distance that you cannot exploreAmazing dlc. And the snow dlc is like 3 hours long. You can just tell they were cut areas from the main game to later sell as dlc
>>737493256also don't want the map don't hold my hand i would rather get lostsilksong system is a pretty good compromise if the map gets too big and convoluted but still i think i would rather get lost, it's a 3D game how hard could it get? you gold fish brained bro?
>>737493256>also i don't want early game fast travel i would rather have it like DS1Play demon souls, when you die, you have to restart the whole level
>>737494059i did but i cant remember if it had fast travel or not so i guess i was ok with it?you sure it doesn't have it?
>>737492536>You can 1 handed R1 a black k***ht to death in 3 because poise doesnt existWith a greathammer maybe. Enemies in DS3 have passive poise, just not the player.
>>737493849I wanna slurp the swamp water it looks yummy :3
>>737494286>hitting a shield>see poise works in DS3Lmao, holy shit anon you brought back some memories from the souls general days, keep living in your delusions my man
>>737489008>more fashion than any other souls titleAs long as weight is tied to rolling it will never be true, and thats why DS2 is the best.
>>737494059i just checked and yes it does have it but you have to go back to the hub to use itbut that's beside the point cuz if you don't have fast travel the map would be interconnected to make up for that
>>737493748lol, like in DS1, pinched off the dragon butt area and lost izalith, totally un-finished, return for manus in a dlc. not to forget the ash lake.even so, its still a better exploratory experience than any other souls besides maybe bloodborn
>>737494218Well you can TP but it's irrelevant since every area has just one Archstone than you can TP to and it's at the beginning always
>>737487442Demons Souls and DS2 SOtFS were adventure games where you had to use your brain to overcome deadly obstacles and a wide variety of challenges. Then DS3 happens and it's just pressing the roll button at the right time.
>>737494286god 3 looks so jank
>>737493256The kick is in elden ring as a weapon skill
>>737494801>just one Archstonei seriously doubt this
>>737494421Are you actually slow in the head? He clearly hits the knight before he pulls his shield up lmao
>>737494926and i don't like that go back we had it better back then
>>737494823demon souls and dark souls 1 you mean, dark souls 2 is a smelly turd
>>737494952Haven't you played DeS? There are no checkpoints except after a boss
>>737495029other anon here>dark souls 2 is a smelly turdyes i can confirm this
>>737495118i think so yea but there are more than one boss in each path yea? i think that was good enough for me
>>737487217Have you considered not sucking at games?
>>737495217You're right and I agree, the abundance of checkpoints in later games make it so I never feel on edge during the actual dungeons as you never really lose any serious progress by getting killed
>>737494973For a whooping 200 damage in dark firelink? Sure man, whatever cope helps you sleep at night.
>>737495126if dark souls 2 is a turd then i'm a scatchad
>>737487486DS2 was already criticized for having too many bonfires. Shrine of Amana is a linear snaking corridor that somehow has 4 bonfires.
>>737495434Yes mate because if he actually blocked it it would have been far less, dark knights have high defense, don't reply to me retard
>Devs listened to fans after a total disappointment of a game>Devs make a better gamewow.....how did they do it!?
>>737495434For fucks sakes, later on in the clip you can even see what it looks like when actually blocks it. The player sword bounced of his shield and he does only 29 damage, dummy
>>737495029No, Dark Souls 1 is dogshit and devoid of any of that
>>737495590Sure bro, thats why it did consistently the same damage even when he hit the black knigth when it was doing the shield up stab attack.
>>737495680>>737495849kys
>>737495680Sorry should have included you in>>737495849Its at 8 seconds if you want the timestamp.
>>737487217Torment: Tides of Numenera, fans said they wanted walls of text but they didn't.
>>737487442super liniar boss rush
>>737495530You cover a lot of area in shrine of amana that two working bonfires feels pretty fair
>OP critisased ds3>ds3 fags spend the whole thread seething about ds2what causes this?
>>737495530>>737496078Can you imagine the bitchfest if Amana had less bonfires?DS3 still takes the crown because of the boss spawning bonfire shit that leads to 3 back to back bonfires at dragonslayer armor
>>737487486>>737488114My gripes with Poise in DS3 are:>the game should explain better what it isit should specify that only SOME actions are benefitted from high Poise. The in-game description is misleading.>It should specify WHICH actions gave poise in every weapon/itemI think the description or in the weapon/item stats it should include if and which of the weapon/items actions used Poise.Other than that you get used to it. It's still a bit frustrating to get stunlocked all the time by some BS quick attack, but if it had more information you could at least prepare better.In any case, I don't think the focus of the series should be the PVP to begin with (although I like it). Maybe they could have different rules for PVP and PVE regarding how Poise works.
>>737496481Seething is the only normal reaction when knowing about DS2's existence, that's just how bad it is
>>737495530>Shrine of Amana>enemies cna run at full speed at you while you walking on mud>a billion spell casters shooting you>an ogre following you everywhere if you try to duckThe most unfair rape fest in a game, ds2cels will look at you right in the eye and tell you this is good game design
>>737496758Yes, the projectiles are easily dodgeable so one spellcaster wouldn't be challenging at all. And because you have guys rushing at you to melee you have to deal with two disparate threats at the same time. Notice how the challenge is nothing about pressing the roll button at the right time. Which is what DS3 got away from.
>>737496758I will look you in the eyes and tell you to git gudI will always love Amana for the amount of rustled jimmies from the DS1 git gud crowd it caused
shrine of amana, i get ptsd everytime some dickhead brings it up, i had to endure so much pain over this>>737497202>oh just use the bowThis is how you know these guys didn't play it on launch, the devs had to patch the area up to put up less spellcasters since when an enemy is agrro'd , all his buddies followed suit, basically proving it was a badly designed area from the get go
>>737497280Nobody cares what the game is like first week of release. And Scholar has more spellcasters and enemies in the area than vanilla anyway.
>>737488892No he is right about ds2's deadzone, don't even pretend like it doesn't exist
>>737498658this is your brain on videogames, zero reading comprehensionstop saving .webms and start saving .pdfs
>>737499127>game with 9 tier of difficulty>tier 9 is the most popular due to actually fullfilling the "epic shit eating the fan 1 man vs billion" fantasy>devs refuse to playtest anything above 4>guy in charge of balancing is *literally* going with the logic that anything the players like to use must be too good and thus must be nerfed>also Sony thinking PC master race players would tolerate legal bullshit as easily as the submissive playstationfags doThe game didn't need any help from the playerbase to ruin itself.
>>737489060>woah people are talking about the earlier games in the same series when discussing the third oneDs1 also got brought up but DS1 chads dont seethe about it because we already know our game is the best.
>>737487217Beating the starter boss you're always supposed to lose to in these games without taking a single point of damage made me realize I'd burnt out any enjoyment I had left of the soulsborne formula. Haven't come back to anything since, not even elden ring.
>>737499801You do seethe about it
>>737500042Seath
>>737488330I agree. People who cry for balance in this game are a cancer. Learning to overcome and adapt is half the fun.
>>737500042thris is so stupid. wheres his 360 degree orb hitboxc attack? wheres his mangeko sharingan that teleports you back in time to grab you?
>>737495815Dark Souls 1 is fantastic, Dog Shit 2 is dogshit, and amount of tranny schizo webm spamming will change that
>>737500042it's cool that from still acknowledges king's field in their newer games
>>737500042ahh yes using a staby stab weapon for a cutting job, doesn't seem like a good idea
>>737499623>devs refuse to playtest anything above 4>players refuse to play anything below 10you faggots deserve each others
>>737499623how about a free public demo for testingif remember correctly vigil the longest night did that
>>737501668>a free public demo... it's already F2P.
>>737501910NTA but isnt that the best demo?
>>737502069Is it, but it won't help with a dev studio that only test their game in easy mode and is flying completely blind when it come to balancing for what 99% of their playerbase is actually facing (well, when they decide to do something else than play whack-a-mole with weapon popularity).
Fuck it, let's go boys.
>>737502498God I loved being Spear of the Church. Too bad it was starved for encounters.
DaS > DeS >>>> ER > BB > DaS3 > DaS2 > DaS2SOTFS
>>737502498rollan
