If a game doesn't have gameplay density, why bother?
You don't bother.
>>737489737I think gameplay density might be just one aspect of quality. You can have dense gameplay that still isn't worth playing. NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER
>>737489737But basically every "classic arcade game" sucks by modern standards and is only held up by literal boomers and purity spiralists who believe we should go back to the atari 2600 because it had none of them cutscene things.
If a game cannot be replayed IMMEDIATELY after finishing it, and enjoyed even more than the first playthrough then it's just slop that fails at being a game.
>>737489925>Purity spiralist>Atari 2600, which is just a name-drop to try and give his post legitimacyYou are a tiny little babyPost your 1ccsWhat's your mom's pussy smell like?
>>737489861I read that in his voice
>>737489926>Modern action>Gameplay densityIf you enjoy five-minute long elevator rides after every fight, I guess
>>737490138Whenever someone says ninja gaiden black is gameplay oriented I just lol so hard, the majority of the game is cinematic platforming with the occasional retard puzzle
>>737490072No, the atari 2600 was chosen due to its primitive technology pretty much only allowing for gameplay. It is, arguably, the most 'pure' video gaming console. It is obviously outdated and ridiculous to assume anyone prefers it over anything that came after, but the OP is still taking the piss.Just because plenty of modern AAA games go way too hard on the cutscene bullshit doesn't mean "Bro... man... Ms Pacman bro... now THAT was a quarter muncher... we gotta go back bro..."
What is the density of gameplay of card games?What about dungeon crawler RPGs?What if they are gacha? Like Shadowverse/Master Duel for card games or Wizardry Variants Daphne for dungeon crawlers?How much gameplay density?
>>737490402>"Bro... man... Ms Pacman bro... now THAT was a quarter muncher... we gotta go back bro..."It's worth looking at. Like Annalynn was pretty good and that's just Mappy on roids. Like I'd rather play Annalynn than pragmata or some roguelike deckbuilder.
>>737490479Those are to arcade games what 52 pickup is to poker.
>>737489926Ohnononono arcade sisters... not like this...
oh hey it's the touhou threadchapjeet were you taking a test at school or something?
>>737490708This is a lot of word salad. Get yourself checked.
>>737490402I think maybe when people say 'arcade games' they aren't specifically talking about the Atari 2600, a home console. This seems hyperbolic and childish. You ever scratch the inside of your asshole? Like not in a gay way and not because it itches either but just because it feels good? Like not in a gay way but just like playing with your butthole a little in the shower, like not full penetration but you know. They get in there a little, second knuckle at most
>>737490765hey chapjeet! forget to bump from page 10 in onii nigger's last thread? >>737471580
is mark still making videos with bestguyever? why'd they become such pals
>>737490708>>737490983What happened is they felt insecure and offended that Touhou gameplay discussion was happening and they spammed another garbage thread to run away.
Mark doesn't follow Aristotelian logic, which is why he presents these "arguments" without any rigor.First, what is gameplay? Is it the act of pressing buttons itself? Or is it the act of interacting with the game mechanics?Does a game like chess have high or low density of gameplay? When you're deeply absorbed in the game but aren't executing commands, are you experiencing gameplay?When you start thinking in a slightly less gay way (the way Mark and his critic friends like that boghog guy think is super gay), you begin to notice that the concepts they put forward aren't all that interesting or relevant.
>>737491413>Pilpul Jew shit that relies on pretending not to understand what words mean>Does a game like chess have high or low density of gameplay? High>When you're deeply absorbed in the game but aren't executing commands, are you experiencing gameplay?YesYou are arguing semantics instead of arguing the actual point.
>>737490983>answer dudes question>keeps asking questions instead of playing a game so get bored and just play games and go to bed>looking at this link>thread just turns into touhou nigs sperging out and argue with someone pretending to be me or whateverI don't care if the thread gets replies or not, I answered his question and gave him two games to play and that's that. If you want "le hidden gems under $10" you can go punch sand, I'm not wasting time replying to that.
>>737489737mostly just play arcade games on PC
>>737491614>sperging outThe only one sperging here is you.
>>737491614I want to stab a knife into your back and twist it
arcade games with infinite lives is the most boring shit in the world.
Bully and LAD have low gameplay density yet i love both those games because they are fun and charming
seeing this thread again is the most boring shit in the world.
>>737491993>they are funI don't think you've ever had real fun. Your whole life has been fake fun.
>>737492067Nah, I bet he had fun. Trust me.
The concept of brevity is lost to crack addicts.
>>737492067I had fun when i went to a bookfair with this skinny pale girl who was really into me
i got to stage 6 in touhou 6 this time but died to sakuya
>>737489737if you really pull it apart, old arcade games of the battle toad variety had incentives to make it unbeatable, one coin at a time incentives, but they were there.those produced second and third order of effects that ((([investors]))) didn't appreciate so they hijacked the studios for the modern audience
>>737489737For the story, lore and similar. I agree that modern AAAslop like Goy of Soi: Ragnarok or The Last of Us goes far too far in the other direction, but you can just play a game because it's comfy or you like the story it's telling. Gameplay is usually the most important aspect, but there's more to a game than just the gameplay.
>>737492998You can't have story that doesn't take away from gameplay, it's one or the other
>>737492503You got this, champ.>>737493176Wrong again. Even the Cave shmups you wank off here every thread have stories.You know what doesn't have a story? Infinite content games like Osu, GD and ADOFAI.
>>737491602>instead of arguing the actual point.Retard, my point is precisely that Mark and his clique of pseudo-intellectuals use jargon that has no practical meaning.The idea of "gameplay density" isn't tied to the inputs the player is making, you just admitted that. It must be tied to something else, then, but what?Is it about the number of decisions the player needs to weigh before each action? If so, then most shoot 'em ups have extremely low gameplay density. Anyone who's gotten good at any relatively difficult shoot 'em up knows that the more you have to think about your moves, the worse you are at the game.Is it the player's mental activity during the game? In that case, even visual novels could have high gameplay density, depending on the person reading them.There's no correct definition because it's just a silly term to describe something simple like: "this game keeps me busy, this one doesn't". But if you say that, no one will think you're an intellectual.
>>737493569(bad link)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZcrHAFDemI
>>737493452>Is it about the number of decisions the player needs to weigh before each action?Yes>Is it the player's mental activity during the game? YesAll of these things contribute to gameplay density in different ways. Things can contain multitudes and you are a nitpicky cunt.
>>737493630Gameplay so pure you don't need visuals or faggy scoring mechanics
>>737493452>It must be tied to something else, then, but whatlack of downtime. for example saga scarlet grace has high gameplay density even as an rpg because it trimmed away all the jrpg fat and all that remains is doing battles one after another.
>>737493176>take awayTell me what you mean by that?Of course your attention will be somewhat divided throughout playing a game, but a story doesn't necessarily compromise gameplay.Even ye olde arcade games usually had a minimum bit of story.
>>737489737Too bad the difficulty is articial :)
>>737492503>I'll at least make you waste a bomb!>dies and loses 5 bombst-thanks
only games that are good are fighting games and arena shooters. they are the only games that are pure meat and potatoes with zero fluff
>>737494141The kind of person who's going MGS3 or OoT is the best game ever does not like video games. There's a different between 4 hours of cutscenes and "this arcade game is dinosaur themed, here are some pictures of dinosaurs".
>>737494448Bzzt, wrong. Try again.
>>737494448Those are men
>>737493653Lol, are you pretending to be retard just to prove everything I said?I started this discussion by saying that Mark and his group don't follow Aristotelian logic.You're proving my point.You: "The number of decisions a player weighs before each action defines gameplay density."My conclusion: Shoot ’em ups, rhythm games, Mario ROM hacks, and all these games have low gameplay density (precisely the opposite of what the jargon intuitively suggests).You: No!!! You also need to consider other factors together, such as the player’s brain activity!Conclusion: so if a game with no decisions to weight, but that activates the player’s brain, have high gameplay density, like an erotic dating sim.And so on...This kind of phenomenon (where I can arrive at conclusions that are clearly wrong even though I’ve followed the premises correctly) only happens because Mark and the bunch of pseudo-intellectuals around him can’t think clearly.They confuse feelings, opinions, and emotions with arguments. "Gameplay density" is an empty term, because gameplay itself doesn’t have a single definition, and it’s impossible to determine how "dense" this thing actually is.You can, however, easily tell the difference between a fast-paced game and a slow-paced one. The point is, you don’t need technical jargon to do that.
>>737494553How is that wrong? The second story gets in the way of gameplay its bad.
>>737494705God I wish
>>737494713>can't even get two sentences in without being extremely fallaciousAlrighty
>>737494713Yeah. The whole premise of the thread is "how can I and my other schizo avatarfag friend made a covert shmup thread"
Mork pseuds are hilarious
>>737494942you are so predictable chapjeet
>>737489737Are atoms even real?I used to believe them but I saw some posts that made me doubt things...
>>737494942>arcade games are streamlined gameplay first experiences made in an environment where not a single second of the players time can be wasted on story or meandering around exploring empty environments, obviously this is a common sense thing any sane person can recognize>um errrrr, pseud!!!!!
Notice these "classic arcade" fans talk about a single arcade game EVERNo arcade game mentioned ITT
>>737494909Yeah, I know. I just like to remind people that some video game critics don't think straight, and like to come up with jargon to make it seem like they know more than they actually do.
>>737495157all they usually do is ask for game recs they will never play and how to set up an emulator they will never use againexcept the only person playing video games, >>737492503
>>737495061"Gameplay density" is a garbage metric, since you limit yourself to a tiny section of human experience that you can model exactly with gameplay systems. It horribly narrows your perspective and at a limit is just a monkey twitching at buttons in response to blinking lights. I'd rather play a game that is less "gameplay dense" but tries to encompass a more ambitious slice of real life than box myself in in a "gameplay dense" simplified similacrum.
>>737495157I think I could make a compelling argument that Dino Rex is a better game than Metroid Prime but no one is ready to hear that yet.
>>737495257>except the only person playing video gamesBruh I'm playing sengoku ace right now, i got my 4th no-miss of the first loop last night and am getting comfortable enough that I can focus purely of the second loop. Every time I talk about something that is not touhou you shit your diaper.
>>737495401>game nobody knows or cares aboutYawn
>>737495541There it is
>>737491712midway is shit tho
>>737495401Look who's sperging again.
>>737495401>look at me i play video games too!!!!!shut up nigga
>>737495061>blah blah blah cult-slave buzzwordsWho cares, fag. I fire up and enjoy Darius, Deathsmiles and Dogyuun every now and again. Fun games, but the way Mork and his twitter friends act you'd think playing these games was akin to a religious experience. It's not.
>>737489737Gameplay variety is also an import metric and arcade games sorely lack in that regard. I don't care if the gameplay is dense if it's just the same fucking thing over and over again
>>737489737This doesn't mean anything
>>737495841>you'd think playing these games was akin to a religious experienceFor them it is because they actually really like themhttps://youtu.be/aaa1gY3kvo0Can you talk about your favorite game for 5 hours straight?
>>737495997yephttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BohC_Yo9RU
>>737496052>his favorite game is FNF
>tranny avatarfag blindly defends ecelebsLike clockwork
>>737496052Holy video density!
What is the plasma of video games?
The density of gameplay in South Africa is fucking crazy. Ive been watching some documentaries on wildlife in the area. They can’t go five seconds without being attacked by something trying to eat it. And, these animals literally will live for years like that engaging in constant battles against other animals. And the way they fight is like, they have actual souls but they’re controlling lion bodies. Like they’re real people basically, but they’re lions instead. You can see so much personality, they feel the same emotions as humans and even make the same facial expressions. Lots of them die gruesomely too and it’s just so hard to believe this has been happening for billions of years and nobody has put a fucking stop to this shit. It’s actually scary how entertaining it is, that’s probably why this is happening. Alienfag likes to watch.
>>737489737this chart is so insanely disingenuous. some arcade games have great design because they were pioneering entire videogame concepts, but even more are complete dogshit time wasters. the "legacy" of arcades is microtransactions. look at rhythm games, these are pure gameplay. they peaked in popularity during home console guitar hero and tanked when that business model moved to trying to sell you mountains of shitty dlc. now every steam rhythm game has day 1 dlc and taiko has a MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION. it's fine to like shmups or whatever you retards talk about because you like the genre, but there is no reason to cling all the old shitty arcade design decisions that are just made to squeeze money out of people. the greatest arcade racer of all time is burnout 3, the point is to take the good parts of a genre and make a decent game, it's not rocket science.gaming is not about gameplay density, it's about having fun and not getting your money or time completely raped. if you don't play rpgmaker games or mods or other free stuff then you are not a gamer
>>737496086>his favorite game doesn't have 24 hours of content to talk about
Candy Crush is a good gameplay density game
>>737496235Glad you're finally getting it.
>>737496159One day I wish to live among the lions.
>>737496310stop copying the avatarnigger already
>>737496189>there is no reason to cling all the old shitty arcade design decisions that are just made to squeeze money out of peopleSuccessful new indies like pizza tower, Neon White, etc., are chasing after arcade design, they aren't trying to be AAA movie games.
>>737496360No, that was actually the real me. I wish to battle with lions. I've unironically fought a bear and a shark with my bare hands before, but never a lion.
>>737495997Considering that my favorite game is a tabletop miniature wargame and it takes half a day to play and during the whole time I have to talk about it with my opponent, kind of?
>>737496492God I hope it's not slophammer
>>737496189what a load of shit anon. What do you think makes games fun?
I don't care as much about density of gameplay as I do about density of novelty. Souls games are extremely gameplay dense but the gameplay is repetitive, grinding, and skill mastery focused. I like new mechanics, new areas to explore, new things to see and do and NPCs to speak to. I like repetitive games if they are short, or if there is some iterative development to the mechanics but not if the mechanic is just "you get better at the game". I don't get any joy or excitement from that. I'll likely get bored in a 60+ hour game if it doesn't produce novelty throughout.
>>737496492DDP is a 40 minute long game, and he's talking about it for 5 hours. Just the gameplay, not even other things surrounding the game like some retrospective analysis essay. That's probably what he means by density.
>>737495301>more ambitious slice of real life nothing ambitious about maps made huge for no reason, with boring time wasting of shit that has nothing to do with what you paid the game for, and cinematic bs all over the place with gameplay made intentionally poor and unresponsive to feel more realistic.I understand what you mean by this but it's still true that anytime a game focus on depicting more "life" then the gameplay immediately suffer.
>>737496385neon white is inspired by speedrunning not arcades. pressing a button to start a level over instantly is the opposite of an arcade where it costs real world money. arcade games do not have a monopoly on "short level design"
>>737496839That's literally how people learn that era of arcade games. Hell, some games, like psikyo, even have comprehensive training modes built into the debug menu. It's just a more palatable modern reimagining of how those games have always been played.
>>737496537I said it in my post. anything marginally fun without some company breathing down my neck trying to get me to spend more money. if you hate AAA you should hate arcades just as much
>>737496772FNAF is also less than an hour long and has a 24 hour eceleb essay, that means it has almost 5x the gameplay density.
Oh I remember I did a shitpost for this once
>>737497029I skimmed around a bit and this video doesn't even seem to be discussing the game, it kind of just seems to be a Mish mash of random clips like one of those weird toddler vids with baby mermaid sonic.
>>737497029yep
well, sisters?
>>737496970arcades as a whole do not support this kind of behavior. to make a "palatable reimagining" means removing the shitty arcade part, ok so then it's not an arcade inspired game. speedrunning always existed in arcades but became more widely popular on home consoles precisely because it was more convenient, so speedrunning as a whole is not synonymous with arcadesI'm not shitting on arcade developers who tried to make cool games, and if you like them that's fine. my point is that "arcade" as a description always just boils down to the shitty parts of arcade games. sounds like you just like short fast paced games, I do too but I wish you niggers would stfu about deathsmiles and shit
>>737496642What are your favorite games then? but that's a good point, some games have no business being 70 hours of nothing but the exact same combat everywhere. Not a fan of soulsgame because they are mastery focused yet there's no that much to master about the combat, actually. souls games are just terrible action game with subpar rpg systems tacked on. The only thing that makes them engaging enough for 100 hour is purely the enemy variety, the sheer difficulty that forces you to master the few mechanics the game has (which is very arcade-like actually) and the exploring you have to do to advance. So when a souls game isn't even difficult and doesn't even have that many different ennemies/challenges and meaningful places to go, they just die. Like Nioh 3.
>>737497510final fantasydragon questpaper mario
>>737497638Good taste
>>737496973You're truly retarded, then. at this point, most arcade games are made without credit mechanic at all in the first place, so that's not what defines the genre. Even if you go back to the 90' and argue that they are, it's still not the same as modern mobileshit exploitation because you losing your life is all on you and that models actually improved game design instead of ruining it like MTX did.
>>737497638cringe walking simseven retro arcade mogs thismodern arcade? we're not even the same species, you subhuman
>>737489737Here's the density of an arcade cabinet>play quarter munching game>die>insert quarter for a continue>play until youre broke.
>>737497409Speedrunning is just introducing a system of scoring after games were casualized and removed score.
>>737497809don't forget>have zero fun in the process>never go back
>>737492123underrated post
I can just imagine the open world sandbox imsim sloppers getting absolutely booty blasted over the existence of arcade games.
>>737495997https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw3lU5MX_zI
>>737497809>>737497913>the density of a shitter
>>737497913I also forgot >not beating a single game before you leave
>>737498026Yeah this is also a good game, map design in fps is important.
>>737498046Density of a you will own nothing and be happy shitter.
>>737498023I can smell your seethe from my screen.
>>737498023>Yo bro you just gotta check out this game>early access>crafting>open world>survivalHoly shit I almost fell asleep just thinking about it.
I don't get what density of gameplay is supposed to be in the context of many games.For example, puzzle games.Baba Is You has you spending most of your time looking at the puzzle and thinking about it, is that gameplay?Is Baba is You was gameplay dense as Doom Eternal? Maybe more, Doom had a lot of looking for secrets. But maybe looking for secrets is gameplay too?That the crux of it, what _IS_ gameplay?Game density is arbitrary depending on what you choose to count as gameplay and what you consider empty space.It's no a great way to think about games, because it require classifying things into the gameplay/not-gameplay categories.Everything in the game is gameplay, because you're playing the game.
Sudoku has really heigh gameplay density
>>737498341i spent more time playing custom baba is you level packs than any arcadeslopfantastic game
>>737498341This is either an 87 IQ jew or a 13 year old. Gameplay is decision making and understanding how to make complex inputs. If you are playing a puzzle game and actively thinking about the solution every second it is dense. Puzzle games were even in the arcade and very popular for a few years before they got usurped by fightslop
>>737498454Based>>737498520Cringe, baba is arcadecoded slop
>>737498341density is the ratio of not playing the game versus playing the game.
>>737497510Actually that anon hereAll time I'd say Abe's Oddysee with a bonus mention to ExoddusRecent years maybe Death Stranding or Baldur's Gate 3
>>737498606At what point of playing a game are you not making inputs and making decisions?Unless the game has stopped to show you a cinematic or you're reading an in-game book you're making decisions and puttin in inputs. It's gameplay.It's ironic that you immediately follow that by saying thinking about solving the puzzle is gameplay, when it's completely disconnected from the game. You're not actually making decisions and you're not putting in inputs while you just think, so it's not gameplay by your own definition.So how is thinking about a puzzle any different than reading from a digital book? Or watching a cinematic?
>>737496839are u ok retard?
>>737498743The image you posted isn't about gameplay, it's about action.You're always playing the game, whether you're walking around, building a base or shooting shit. So it's all definitionally gameplay.
>>737499440Even watching "movies" can offer gameplay elements if you pay attention. Like in Phoenix Wright you know you should press the witness more if you're watching them and they look nervous or have a tic.
>>737499614so movies are games because you have to press play once to start them. that one millisecond of "gameplay" is all it took to make it a video game.
>>737499758that has a connection with gameplay down the line, but it's also not fundamentally different from people watching an Agatha Christie flick and trying to figure out who the killer is.
Sometimes idk what to make of things. I've been a casual fan of shmups for decades, but was only really aware of mushihunesama by name because of those old YouTube videos. You know the one, "Hardest boss fight ever!" And it's some jap feeding quarters to the stage 5 mushi boss, with the screen full of purple shot the whole time. I remember looking on steam and being disappointed with what was left after playing Crimson Clover. I tried some under 5$ shmups but didn't find them particularly fantastic and they were most magical girl stuff. But now that I've finally started to look into the scene I'm very disappointed that seemingly there are no franchises I missed out on. There are no shameless clones of the well known games that people don't talk about. It is incredible how much the genre has stagnated. I think I'm mostly upset I didn't realize the genre in the 2000s was already on its deathbed. I only started looking into it seriously a few weeks ago and I'm practically out of new bullethells to download. Reminds me of drpgs in a way.Here's a newer game I liked, it was a bit easy though.
>>737499958That's just reductionist, and besides the point.Pressing play is a small part of seeing the movie.Solving puzzles is the entirety of a puzzle video game, and a significant part of that is just thinking, by the definition that making decisions and inserting inputs is what gameplay is, thinking of a solution to a puzzle is not gameplay.Only the moving about and implementing the solution once you've come up with it are gameplay.This highlights that this definition is stupid.That's my case.
>>737499440>Unless the game has stopped to show you a cinematic or you're reading an in-game book you're making decisions and puttin in inputs. It's gameplay.ok so we agree. so wall of text mash a jarpigs arent gameplay. puzzle? racing? shooting? gameplay. AAA? jarpig? VN? not gameplay
>>737500249Are you getting 1CCs? There's hundreds of games to play and the length to get a 1cc is pretty fair
>>737500270>Pressing play is a small part of seeing the movie.excuse me but we just established using your definitions that movies are video games. so let me restructure that sentence you just wrote.>Pressing play is a small part of playing a video game.I agree but it's still gameplay.
>>737489737The games I like >>>>> the games I don’t like
ITT: dense autists
