SupCom FAF does everything well: micro, macro (basebuilding, eco), and available strategies at any time. You can move while attacking, so you don't have weird stop-start micro. There are only 2 resources, so you're not frantically wondering around looking for a resource, and all parts of the map are worth engaging. The resources can't be depleted, so you have every part of the map, especially your base, contributing to area control (base resources can be attacked with various strategies throughout the game). On FAF, you have both premade maps and map generation. Commanders are really powerful, so they're relevant well through mid-game, or even endgame if you want to risk them, and they're extremely important because they dissuade and promote rushing (if the opponent goes all in, you have the advantage because of travel time). And the scale is ginormous, potentially from the start if you mass build factories: amount and size of armies, tech advancement, game enders (T3 arty, nukes), and experimentals. It has some of the most units and buildings of any RTS, and the units and buildings are realistic fantasy (peak futurism; e.g., navy units are recognizable, with frigates, subs, cruisers, destroyers, battlecruisers, and battleships, and each have really memorable tactical icons, so you always know what's going on if you zoom out), and these translate to more moment-to-moment storyworth (including castability). I would say that the fantasy is much greater than SC and AOE. With strategic zoom, you feel as if you're controlling a real battle, and you are. SupCom FAF is the definitive RTS, and other RTS don't come close.
Zero-K is the purest form of RTS. None of that fluff artificial shit like adjacency bonuses. Zero-K has perfected micro, where the physics is integrated beautifully. With sophisticated spider positioning around hills and curving rockets. Trench warfare with terraforming. All kinds of artillery, from fast low trajectory artillery, to high trajectory rocket artillery for taking things down in the deepest trenches of hell. Micro is fun in Zero-K. It integrates smoothly from the micro levels to the macro levels. The units and micro allow you to have a highly expressive army. The design philosohy is fight the opponent, not the UI, making it a true RTS, performing far more expressive and powerful maneuvers than any other RTS can achieve. The economy has also been perfected. It's not about blueprints or how fast you can queue buildings in the correct order to scale up. It's all about decision making. Where you choose to expand, how greedy you expand, whether to invest in units, defence or economy. The positioning of your economic structures is important to ensure people can't sneak up to them or hit them with artillery. The economy is also quadratic (networth) instead of exponential. The pacing feels right, where tough and difficult spots around the battlefield form and serious tactical decisions will be needed to resolve them. In other RTS, once you have a super out, you will be mass producing them a minute later and they are the new normal mainline unit. In Zero-K, a super truly is a super and becomes center of attention. They are something of serious investment and have critical roles and priority in the battle. Killing an experimental in BAR or supreme commander is whatever, they'll shit out another one in a minute. Killing a super can be game changing in Zero-K. Nukes absolutely kick ass in Zero-K. They are gigantic and can wipe out entire frontlines.
>>737517834Nuke and antinuke gameplay is unlike anything you've seen in any other RTS. The importance of defending antinukes is vital. People bury them in trenches to protect from artillery. Terraform up steep walls to try and block off missiles from a missile silo. In some cases even have aircraft fly over the antinuke to block missiles. That's not all. Antinukes need to be defended from cloaked units too. Surrounding the antinuke with buildings or units. It doesn't end there. People can launch their units high into the sky through a ramp with newton turrets. There are some units with jump jets that allow them to land down safely and in a straight line down. The costs all add up and they're expensive, so you need to be wise on how you defend your antinukes and assess the importance of doing so. An incredible level of coordination in both teams when it comes to this. Playing cooperatively.
While the Supreme Commander of Idle Armies is building storages around his mexes, Zero-K gigachads are engaging in trench warfare utilising the full extent of projectile physics. Nothing is cooler than Zero-K.
>>737518401This is too slow for you?
>>737519732That's one click in Zero-K. You lost and got raped.
Both these games are so fucking ass play a better RTS you dumb schizos
>>737519903I like clicking them and see the mass income increase. It makes me hard. I won and did not get raped
>>737519963Such as?>>737519903Also doesn't increasing mass income, beyond building more mexes, consist of building more and more energy? That sounds like a similar amount of work
>>737519963>how to out yourself as a gook clicker in 1 postSC is, and always was, dog shit. The bottom of the barrel. Asians like it because its a pre-set mathematical formula that never changes. WC3 takes a fat shit all over it simply by adding a hero unit from which you build around.
>>737520026>spending years of your life clicking mexes and pretending you didn't get rapedYou lost and got raped.>>737520139The one click I do also builds solar collectors next to my mexes. You lost and got raped.
>>737520280Nuh-uh no I didn't.>one click I do also builds solar collectors next to my mexesMay I see it?
>>737520373
>>737518401Does ZK even have big maps? Every video I've seen are equivalent to 5km maps like Theta Passage (5km). But SupCom has 81x81km maps.
>>737520987Okay, that's cool. What do you do later on when you need more though?
>>737521135Nothing like 81*81, but it does have some very large maps. People prefer the small to medium scale.
>>73752124210km or 20km? How about a Seton's Clutch-like map?
>>737521226I can't be bothered to record another video but you can drag lines. There's also a widget that allows you to draw any arbitrary shape of queued construction. You don't need to look back in your base a lot as you typically don't build more than 1 fusion unless the enemy porcs hard or it is a very metal rich map.
>>737521135Supcoms 81x maps never worked and still dont due to the engine error that kills them deadIf you want bigger than 40x you want BAR
>>737521302There are a few maps like seton's clutch. https://zero-k.info/Maps/Detail/63480Most of them are a bit smaller. Can't really be compared 1:1 as they aren't measured in real units.
What do you think the future of the genre is?An RTS will be like the 3rd most played game.
>>737524617I can see people playing Zero-K thousands of years into the future.
>>737517030Square killed it, it's over. They wanted to make Gundam fanfiction with a Forged Alliance coat of paint and ended up making something nobody liked, even mechanically, because they thought Supreme Commander was just "Giant Robots shoot lasers at one another"
>>737517834>>737517030>>737518401>>737518232play BAR>>737521302Nah, Spring TA engine has a 32x32 size limit that will likely never be overcome. Of course to be fair all of the units are smaller than Supcom units by scale and travel slower, so smaller maps feel bigger.
>>737524617Future will probably be more games like AOE2 because that's what normalfags play.Sadly the genre we like is too small for anyone to care about even if we like it.
>>737524824I'd play BAR for those 80+ player events to be sent into a metal grinder. In that situation I think BAR does well in that. In every other situation Zero-K and supreme commander do their things better.
>BARBAR is fun and all, I'd say it's more fun than Zero-K but FAF is just superior.
>>737522347>due to the engine error that kills them deadHuh? There definitely aren't many multiplayer lobbies that use it, but I used to play 81x81 in singleplayer heaps, what engine error are you talking about?
>>737524824It's all perspective. Bigger maps, or smaller and slower units? Supreme commander has slow, long ranged units with fast projectiles. They are small compared to the map. It takes a long time to move units to the other side of the map. Compare BAR's Isthmus with Seton's Clutch. Seton's Clutch feels bigger.
>>737525160Zero-K's unit commands are objectively superior. auto-skirmish alone makes a bunch of units viable in ZK that are just dogshit in BAR
>>737519732I can tell those are tier 3 constructors and not what 99% of the game is like. FAF's own match statistics show that most players don't get out of tier 1
>>737525187NTA because Supcom is a 32 bit game, it suffers 32 bit limitations that result in units clogging down and not responding to commands for sometimes minutes at a time. Dawn of War Soulstorm had a similar engine limitation that made it where 8 player games could crash or units would start to ignore orders since ordering was done in a queue in that game, too. this was fixed with definitive edition.What we need is Forged Alliance Definitive and that would save this genre. Sadly square enix has zero interest in anything with this series anymore, I don't evne know if they still own it.
>>737525825Oh THATS what causes that.Thanks, I always wondered.
>>737525716Those are T2 engineers, actually. Can you provide a link to those statistics, because in my experience, that's just not true. Some of the most popular maps are Dual Gap, Astro Crater and Seton's Clutch and in each of those you are guaranteed to reach T3 unless the teams did not get properly balanced and someone gets rolled. Now, if you are talking about matchmaking, I can't comment on that as I've never touched it
Sorry but zk and bar are just lame. Supcom remains the best.
>>737525870https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk1-m6vmqC8guy play game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq82O91JBHc
>>737524709People aren't even playing Zero K right now.
>>737522214But wouldn't you have to drag lines at every mex regardless, thus having to click as many times regardless? Or is that solved by the widget?
>>737526953Thank you for sharing gameplay, anon
>>737527006They will, once they evolve
>>737525716T1 engies can do that. Anything that can build mass storage can do that (T2 or T3 suite commander).
Why did BAR succeed where Zero K failed?
>>737527505Because people prefer drinking in bars to freezing instantly in absolute zero temperatures
>>737525862Yeah, otherwise Supcom would be the perfect game that could support upwards of 64K units at a time. Right now it hits the upper limit of 32 bit computing. 4GB of memory, and single core threading and has to start paging, which means nothing responds anymore.There are games that are 32 bit with larger unit counts, but they use little tricks that Supcom didn't think to.
>>737525825>I don't evne know if they still own it.I doubt they do, either.Wonder what Chris is up to these days.
>>737527794I believe he's involved in some form in the Sanctuary project
zerok has got to be the biggest piece of shit I've played in a whileBAR and FAF is all you need in life
>>737524897I don't think another AOE except an actual AOE has a future as a really popular RTS, and I don't think AOE is fun, definitive, or intuitive enough to get much more than it already has. Where's the scale? Where's the power? Where's the variety:depth that comes from massive amounts of buildings and units?
>>737527040Usually mexes produce 1.8 to 2.1 metal per second depending on map. Solars produce 2 energy per second. Constructing units and buildings is 1:1:1 with metal, energy and build power. In the case of 2.1 metal mexes one extra solar collector covers 20 mexes. You do want some extra energy though as repairs cost energy (but not metal) and you can get extra metal from reclaim. The area mex command and a few extra solars is enough to expand and not estall. There is an additional click of building a caretaker (construction turret to boost factory) when needed. One caretaker every 10 m/s of income (typically 3 to 10+ caretakers depending on map in 1v1). Multiple caretakers can be queued instead of doing it one at a time when expansion is getting fast. You don't upgrade mexes in Zero-K, instead they produce metal faster from excess energy, so less clicks from not needing to upgrade mexes multiple times and less clicks from not needing to build energy converters.
how cum in /v/ threads for eat sports events like asl or red bull wololo you get the impression that posters more or less know what they're talking about, but regular /v/ rts threads are full of the most braindead shit takes you'll find about any genre at all?
>>737527505maybe because BAR supports infinity players and map size with the only limit being your PC exploding?
>>737528281maybe these people come to post only in these specific threads, maybe people are baiting
>>737528281Esports games are filled with artificial on the rails knowledge. Easy for a normalfag to learn and understand. When it comes to real RTS, there is no handholding. There is no fake scripted build order that automatically wins you the game. It comes down to pure balls, testosterone and IQ. Truth is normal people don't and are unable to comprehend the fundemental concepts of RTS.
>>737528281The "regular" rts threads lately have been full of TA fanatics that are unable to comprehend that people enjoy other things and quickly resort to personal attacks and circular logic
>>737526953is this a sc2 map?
>>737528483Probably.
>>737528693its a TA map you disgusting zoomers
>>737528418>autistic inability to understand simple abstractions
>>737528769https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Xel%27Naga_Caverns
>>737528281>how cum in /v/ threads for eat sports events like asl or red bull wololo you get the impression that posters more or less know what they're talking about,The people who watch those also play the games because nobody sane would watch wololo or hidden cup unless they were into AOE2. These threads are for shitposting.
>>737528443it just seems like if you're talking to a fan of aoe2 or sc or c&c and say something like "the more developed a scene is the better people will get at defending and the more openings will trend towards greed" and people will understand the point, but the people in these threads will just scream about gookclick and say that greed doesn't exist.
>>737529657Have you considered that there is no point in engaging in that statement seriously? The average /v/tard in these threads have tens of thousands of hours in RTS. They already made that observation before you were born.
Zero-Ktrannies are the most annoying shitstains at /v/ More than Starcraftfags
>>737530970You lost and got raped.
when will handcannoneers be buffed? probably never....
>>737528281rts threads are for ancient old men that post too slowly for shitposters to get dopamine from.
z e r o - kero|k
>>737528443Actually the problem is that I have legitimate reasons to not like other things but it makes you massively butthurt.
>>737528281Because RTS as a genre has been in a half-dormant state for the last decade and a half and anyone with something to say had a chance to say it plenty of times. All that remains is a handful of autists going over same subjects on repeat.Furthermore, there's been an ongoing tendency for the last month or so of someone making SupCom-focused RTS threads every day that could be shills for all I know, but for what, or why, I am none the wiser.
>>737534804It's Ian the Nutriments NiggerHe is severely, severely autistic
>>737528281What the fuck are you talking about korea time threads are full of subhuman retards shitposting.
>>737524824BAR is by far the only one actually playable At least has a future and a scene
>>737527505Plays better, more action oriented, better graphics, better support, alive
>>737517030I'm too dumb for SupCom, I got stuck on the last mission for like 10 hours and then I got stuck on the first mission of FA for just as long
>>737534496its deadplay BAR
>>737528281casual RTS fans are extremely passionate and roughly 95 IQ
>>737528443this
>>737517030it's a bit soulless
>>737518401I memeber trying zero-k and the enemy would skirt my firing range and refuse to engage so I had to chase them. It was very annoying so I never went back.
>>737534292:'C
>>737535389I used to be a god of SupCom then I tried FAFs new seraphim missions (years after i stopped playing) and had the same problem lol
>>737537086Maps 2 small
>>737538426Use 100 players maps then
