auto-aim was a part of the genre since its inception. the introduction of deliberate aiming was a mistake
>>737602903I agree which is why I find console shooters so much more fun than PC shooters.
>>737602903its not like you can literally delay technology so that aiming is removed from it they were working with limitations and making the mosst of them. The real issue is when you make it 100% about the combat and you regain ammo and armor IN combat there is no need for complex levels which are primarily about obtaining power ups and ammo.
>>737602903>>737603168You guys are too based for this shit board. Run while you still can.
>>737602903Yes. They aren't about aiming. If they were you'd have to manually tune and aim down sights while maintaining grip. Even in games where you do it auto aligns pre-zero'd sights for you, and you don't need to worry about arcing and grips. All non-VR FPSes are point n' clickers.
>>737603269No I'm just gonna keep posting about console shooters. I actually find the act of aiming to be very underwhelming in most games, PC gamers psyopped themselves into believing it was the main appeal.
>>737602903Aiming is also about positoning and prediction yk
Games had limited controls back then. Wolf3d and doom were played with keyboard only. I played Quake with keyboard only too, and tank controlsMaking games more challenging isn't a bad thing, particularly if the audience finds the challenge engaging.Adding precise aiming also allows for new mechanics. For example, in half life you have the laser guided rocket launcher, the hitscan laser gun that reflects on planar surface to do trick shots, etc. Games can still add guns with autoaim to the mix. IIRC titanfall had a "smart pistol" with autoaim among other guns without it.Maybe we could just reverse the premise. In which ways would games be better by having vague shooting?
>>737602903PC and Console shooters are their own categories.It's just that Console shooters with aim assist became the standard because normalfags flooded the market. Yet PCfags shit all over console fags, wonder why.
>>737603427>In which ways would games be better by having vague shooting?That Sniper series comes to mind, where the focus is on the simulation of tuning your weapon.
>>737602903Cry more Doomkiddie
>>737603340Console shooters are bad but Romero fags held onto Doom for too long despite obviously being shit since no free aim existed. Quake it was justifiable to have held onto. Not the other.
>>737603254This is why Doom needs a survival crafting element. Now you have reason to explore the levels again.
>>737603674I'm not sure why i replied to that poster specifically. It was meant to be to OP.Sometimes i have a habit of randomly clicking someone in the thread by accident.
>>737603674>Console shooters are badHaving played so many of them, no.
>>737603738ok no thats not what im saying at all I think that sounds terrible. I fucking hate modern crafting systems. Just redo the mechanics without glory kills giving more ammo and health, use more disposable enemies around the level. I dont want to be in some retarded menu 'crafting' I dont want to do that in any way at all.
>>737603841It's too late anon. I already pushed your crafting idea to the guys upstairs.
>>737603761I feel you, sometimes someone makes a stupid post and I mean to reply, only to change my mind and reply to OP instead.
>>737603791I've disliked them since Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. Find them all to be incredibly shitty in feeling. Timesplitters was only saved because it was unique thematically. Turok was meh.Never been a fan.
>>737604018Have you tried Medal of Honor?It's the only one I liked.
>>737602903Computers were never supposed to be for gaming. It's just a thing we found out we can do with them, and it became a big part of it. Should we abandon games because it wasn't the original intention?
>>737604121>Computers were never supposed to be for gaming
>>737604398You just proved his point, dum dum.
>>737602903It's reasonable to have the gun hit a specific point on the screen. There's a big problem when moving doesn't really matter because you either aim well enough to kill everything quickly or die.
Doesn't Megaman Legends have lock-on?It doesn't feel like some bullshit automatic magnetism like auto-aim, instead the lock-on is manually set.
>>737604505Aiming ultimately needs to be fun, something light gun games have always had over point & click shooters.
>>737604068Yeah but i don't remember playing it all that well.
>>737604548Dark Souls as well.As usual, Dark Souls did everything right.
>>737604580It plays great, excellent controls and really fun AI.
i play overwatch on PC and i use a controller. and its fucking BS how it doesnt have aim assist. fucking impossible
>>737604490Nah, it was definitely a major selling point
>>737603427its not about limited controls. its the fact that FPS games are not about aiming, but moreso about maintaining your health and having good positioning..
>>737604752While aiming.
>>737604718Right, and it was a selling point because it was something computers didn't do before. Because that isn't what they were originally meant to do.
>>737604826Making it viable for home computers at that stage is grounds for it being "something computers can do"
>>737603168>>737603269>>737603340Console shooters are better cause you are pulling a trigger which feels like pulling the trigger, thats soul
>>737605109Congratulations! You've finally caught up to the original point of his post, in which he was pointing out that shit evolves to do new things, despite what the original intention was.
True, boomer shooters are all about movement, weaving between enemies and projectiles. To a lesser extent about resource management and exploring the level.>>737605235Light gun games are the best for the feeling of actually aiming a gun.It's a TPS, but Splatoon gets a shoutout for being the only 3D run and gun game that doesn't sacrifice aiming or movement. Both feel really smooth and precise at the same time. It's a shame console FPSs don't implement gyro and the few that do always fuck it up in some way where it feels off.
>>737602903In Quake you can shoot at where enemies will be instead of where they currently are, and that's an infinitely better FPS than Doom will ever be, you're completely wrong on all counts.
>>737603168>>737605235sacrilege
>>737604398>posts a computer with sound and graphics hardware specifically for gaming
>>737602903You still have to aim with doom. You don’t have to aim vertically because the game engine doesn’t have a concept of height. Doom is actually a top-down game.
>>737605667Weaving and movement allows you to evade railgun shots?
>>737603791Cold Winter is absolute garbage. Everything wrong with console shooters in one game.
>>737603340Killzone 2 still looks really damn good to this day. Sony really struck gold with that game and this was despite that fake trailer that one E3 and despite the first game being underwhelming. Its such a damn shame they never capitalized with future games. Killzone 3 was definitely a step down even though I still enjoyed it and thought it was good overall. No chance I think we will ever really see this series return. If it does its going to be shitty.
>>737606403Not only does it look good, but it feels good to play, and the motion controls actually help heighten tension. The multiplayer died way too soon, but it was a great experience.
>>737605235
>>737606880Some of you keyboards are alright.
>>737603340>port never ever>runs like shit on RPCS3FUCK
>>737603459Because it's way easier to aim with KB+M than it is with analog sticks. Even gyro aiming is better.
>>737606880he didn't say that
>>737606880Nah
>>737602903Why do you think that what random people did years ago determines how something is always supposed to do now? What a stupid notion.
>>737606682The game had no aim-assist right? I don't remember it having any which probably put a ton of people off since most console shooters or maybe even all others will have it to some extent. The multiplayer for KZ2 was incredibly fun to play.
>>737605235Today I realized M+KBfags don't know the joy of haptic feedback. They fire guns and feel absolutely nothing.
>>737607043none of those feels like aiming a gun tho.
>>737607086Everyone was so chunky you didn't need assist, yeah, that only made headshots harder and more about "skill". CQC was an entirely different thing though.
>>737607136feels closer to the experience than a mouse does
>>737607264Sticking your dick in a cactus is closer to getting your dick sucked than shoving the cactus up your ass is, but that doesn't make in anywhere close.
>>737607043>VR enters the room>>737607098I feel the joy of killing you.
>>737607098Has anyone tried to make a mouse with haptuc feedback and HD rumble?
>>737607320I imagine it would be something I turn off, and just forget even exists, but now that you have me thinking about it, I'm surprised there aren't more mice with haptic feedback.
>>737607306Closer than a mouse, its like telling a kid using a stick as a sword isn't anything like a real sword. Yes its not 100% the same but with imagination and fun you can pretend a stick is a sword
>>737607427>its like telling a kidThat's exactly what I'm doing.
>>737607320
>>737603168Same here. I make a compromise by installing an aimbot on my PC FPS games
>>737607320It's been tried. Nobody bought it because it's a stupid idea.
nonsense
>>737603674>>737603168i hated shooters until i played pc onesa lot of console shooters (including their console ports) have extremely linear level design and they don't have a lot of room for player expression nor exploration.You can't rocket jump to skip portions of the campaign in goldeneye like you can in quake 2
>>737607763Not really impressive anymore. This would have been amazing back when Splinter Cell had water physics for bullet holes.
>>737607453Good job bro youre 35 on a game board
>>737607781>bragging about skipping the gamelol
What a fucking retarded thread. Auto-aiming was used as a band-aid due to the facr being able to look around freely wasn't invented yet. As soon as you could properly aim up it got abandoned.
>>737602903>>737603168Console shooters are the aiming shooters. It's built into their very DNA since the hallmark of a console shooter is to slow to a stop, aim down sights, and shoot from a slow speed. Console sprint prevents you from moving and spraying bullets at the same time since you can't reload or shoot while sprinting. PC-focused FPS games are designed around strafing, using your movement to limit damage taken, and resource management, all in addition to aiming of course. Saying PC shooters are only about aiming is not only untrue, but the neutered depth of console-first shooters makes aiming more of the focus in them - with the exception being the early console shooters from the 90s, as well as ports.
>>737606267quake 1 didn't have a rail/sniperrifle equivalent(I'm generally not a fan of rail heavy games and maps)
>>737607043>with controller you raise your hands upWho the fuck does that?
two can play at this game>video games were never about graphics>video games never intended you to walk beyond grid points>video games never allowed you multiple save files for one playthrough>video games never wanted you to have an in-game minimap
>>737608472Do you rest it on your lap or something
>>737608043it's more about having so many options for good movememt
Didn't Elite 1984 have aiming?
Movement and level design > raw aiming but the best games are gonna require all 3.
>>737608554Yes.Is this you?
>>737608160it's rage bait and AI is scraping all of your angry posts so the faceberg jew can get boomers to engage on facebook
>>737608651Yes.You got a weak wrist or something
>>737608456it kind of did, it had the thunderbolt
>Another ADS bitchfest thread
>>737602903>unc is terrible at video-gamesIt's the middle of the night why are you still awake
>>737608598Why you guys care about movement in a shooter so much. Goldeneye would be worse with jumpy movement, its better cause its on the ground and you are more focused on shooting over where to jump next
>>737608742I just never understood the love for ADS. Having a zoom feature is nice, but having almost half of the bottom of your screen cut off with the gun model, and then on top of that, the muzzle flash blocking the view of what I'm shooting at? I can't get into it.
>>737608706Do you also rotate your arms whenever you play a racing game?
>>737602903>deliberate aiming is bad>having to constantly rotate your camera to find enemies you have to kill anyways is goodI don't see the fucking logic up in this bitch. Hell, having to use the Shoot button is retarded too, make it automatic. Only 2D games are real games.
>>737602903Anon..............Light gun games already establish aiming while moving....................I'm sorry anon................................It's over for you............................................
>>737602903If that were the only issue it might be fine, but let's not pretend that this is the only issue that controllers have.>Because you can't aim, you also can't move because movement is relative to what you're doing with the camera>Can't look at things to interact with them, if you could look at things to interact with them you only have three buttons to do so>Your movement has to be slow and everything needs to move in canned arcs so that the player can track movement with slow camera panning>Verticality needs to be minimized as much as possible so that the game can focus on camera on the X axisLet's not pretend that so-called "dual analog" games are ever really dual analog at anything other than the lowest difficulties where player action doesn't matter, since the rest of the time they are played by alternating focus between moving and shooting, like the stereotype of not walking and chewing bubblegum at the same time. The laughable Doom 2016 Polygon footage looks like that for a reason.>>737604752>Managing your healthAnd yet modern consoleslop doesn't care about this>PositioningThis was much more possible when you had precise digital keys and leaning that could be used instantly.
>>737608716i'd mark the lg more as midrange tracking, but yeah it was incredibly powerful and the maps aren't that big anyway
>>737608813Yes i have a racing wheel so im rotating that with my arms
>>737608810Never fired a gun in your entire life huh? That's what you do when you shoot a gun. You look down the sights.
>>737606267it's a game. Projectiles you can avoid adds to the fun. Getting hitscanned isn't as fun.
>>737608795NTA, but good movement is fluid movement that lets you do shit while you move around other than moving at full speed, something that isn't conducive or fun on a controller. That's why the Call of Duty series took off, because it perfected what first-person shooting combat should feel like with a controller, and controllers are how most people play video games. Sprinting prevents you from shooting at all, walking and hipfiring lowers your accuracy to close-quarters engagements, and the only way to get reliable accurate shooting is to use iron sights. The perfect, intuitive formula to keep people from bouncing around the walls at mach 5 speed on a device that don't have analog aim.>>737609116Yes, it's intuitive and makes sense, but the problem is when every game started being made with it when it's not needed, and casuals complain like it's a quality of life thing, when that couldn't be further from the truth.
>>737603427Hi Sandy, hope you’re doing well! Doom was always made to be played with a mouse!
>>737605235I like shooting guns in VRBut i prefer still prefer the mouse over controller.I spent a lot of time playing light gun games so perhaps thats why i have that kind of attachment to VR in the first place.
>>737609295The game alternates between sprinting and ADS, because it knows that you can't coordinate between two analog sticks at once, so it heavily deemphasizes one or the other. Cover systems likewise heavily simplify or remove your movement options and focus on aiming. You have to remember that Sony only included two analog sticks on the Dualshock to one-up Nintendo, not because it was actually useful for anything on its own.Modern controllers are just kind of bad at 3D games, because they are still mostly focusing on an awful dual analog focused control scheme instead of at least moving on to gyro aim and flickstick.I get that this might have been the only way to make shit work on garbage early 2000s controllers, but it would've been better to just leave things to PC and focus on making games that actually control well on console.
>>737602903guy who just got owned in a multiplayer fps says what?
>>737609638I agree, but it was always going to be the case that, once a console got powerful enough to be able to run a fully-fledged first-person shooter (OG Xbox), that development focus would pivot from PC to console just because that where all the players are.
Auto-aim is for weaklings. True aiming with a mouse is where it's at. Skill is needed to do that. Skill and good knowledge of game mechanics. FPSes are about killing most things with a gun best, doing so with a mouse is a choice most times. Aim trainers are a thing. People can lock on to a target in a split-second and unload a clip. Pro-FPS gamers are a different breed. Anyway, PC is the only way to game, so mouse aiming it is.
>>737604752>maintaining your health and having good positioningThis. Or kill most things with a gun the best you can and keeping health and having positioning were ways to achieve that.
>>737608456Quake 1 emphasized movement and explosive weapons, doubly so when the devs discovered the physics of the engine allowed for rocket jumping then included levels and secrets you could only find using the technique.
To me, playing FPS with a controller just feels gross and incorrect. I literally can't enjoy first person games like this. Controller aiming makes me want to instantly shut the thing off and do something else.
>Auto aim as an option in singleplayerfine>Auto aim in a competitive PVP setting because you decide to use an input device that is not suited for the genreretarded
KB+M are more accurate and thus better to use when aiming. Consoles/controllers are less accurate hence aim-assists exist. It's actually a limitation that makes it needed. A more accurate world is one without aim-assists. KB+M are all you need.I fired a real M16 rifle before, it's just hoping your sights are set alright, look down the sight, and pull the trigger. Got 100% in an accuracy test, it's that easy. They tell you to point a finger straight the side of the gun's berrel to shoot at night/dark and aim where the finger is pointing. Rifles shoot straight and far, aiming is a joke.Keeping cover and a straight shot at the same time is harder since aiming is a two-way street; what you can aim at can aim at you back. All you need is to adjust the sights to the rifle's zero position, which only the class sgt. Did for you prior to getting on the range to shoot. She adjusted according to a test shooting you did at a piece of paper before and measuring the bullet spread deviation angle. So everytime you aim was the point where the bullet would hit if you were aiming right, everytime with that specific rifle. Didn't do moving targets or formation combat. Static target up to 100m or 50m in dark. Scored 100% in all tests, but had an extra bullet in one test and no one knew.Long story short KB+M aiming with fixed sights is pretty realistic as is, you aim and shoot just like you'd a real gun, the hard part of aiming is over already and the sights are zeroed in to be accurate everytime. Hitting a dot or a person does not matter. Look and shoot. Simple as. Auto-aim is like having a magnet to your target. It's already easy, no need to eliminate all active function from the activity.
>>737608795Quake movement is great because it works with nearly every map, weapon, or level design. There's a good reason why a lot of shooters are based on it in the same way many 3D fighters are based on Virtua fighter.
>>737602903retarded take but old fps were as much about movement and dodging as aiming at things, when more realistic fps and especially the move to console it slowed down the movement and required more precision aiming to compensate>>737611016console fps only work because the designers provide training wheels in the form of auto-aim, snap on down sights, magnetic snap on melee etc all designed to reposition the camera and keep the pace flowing
