Why was... no. Why is Morrowind so much better than Oblivion, Skyrim, or most other RPGs (besides games like Gothic 2, etc.)?
when it came out, everyone called it a casualised consolebabby CRPG only zoomers pretend to like it now
>>737611884not true. This started with Oblivion.
>>737611943you dont get it bro they removed the completely useless language skills and le climbing
>>737612317That wasn't the sentiment back in 2002. The consensus was that it was a significant improvement over Daggerfall's procedural generation. Both European and American magazines reflected this, and even on old forums, users clearly preferred it to Daggerfall.
>>737611651Half of Morrowind's gameplay is navigating and learning about the game world. It puts more emphasis on all of the contextual things other games take for granted and expects you to put the pieces together and learn things yourself. A lot of players miss half of what's going in the quest lines and the good loot is often hidden and only hinted at. It's potentially extremely immersive because of this.Oblivion and Skyrim railroad you to the things they want you to see all the time.>>737611884Grognards called it that, the kind of people that enjoy the shit parts of old DnD's stat systems.
>>737613005>Half of Morrowind's gameplay is navigating and learning about the game world. It puts more emphasis on all of the contextual things other games take for granted and expects you to put the pieces together and learn things yourself. A lot of players miss half of what's going in the quest lines and the good loot is often hidden and only hinted at. It's potentially extremely immersive because of this.Fighters Guild in Morrowind is actually kino because it isn't just "go here, kill rat." Take that FG quest in Vivec where they tell you to go to Ald'ruhn and kill that Argonian for no reason. If you're a brainless Skyrim fan, you just follow orders and click on heads. But if you actually talk to Percius Mercius (the FG drill master in Ald'ruhn), he tells you the quest is total BS and helps you let them escape.Most players are too filtered by the lack of quest markers to realize that half the quests have hidden paths or political subtext involving the Camonna Tong. Modern RPGs would just put a giant "CHOICE A" or "CHOICE B" prompt on the screen, but Morrowind actually makes you use your brain.
>>737611884Lying poser. Morrowind is mechanically much more complex than Daggerfall. You don't know that because you've played neither.
I tried to get into Morrowind last year and I eventually dropped it, there were some things I really disliked>talking with npcs feels like reading wikipedia>slow as shit movement speed>"running" drains stamina, which regens rather slowly>efficient levelling is the most tedius shit ever>shitty fetch questsIf I ever go back I'd mod most of these things
>>737613713>>efficient levelling is the most tedius shit everyou don't have too>>shitty fetch questssee>>737613240
>>737611884The implication here is that you were not only alive when Morrowind came out, but old enough to be discussing it.Which means you are at least a forty year old man saying "casualised consolebaby."You should really consider ending your life.
>>737611884>only zoomers pretend to like it nowI'm an old-ass millenial and I still like it.Mostly because I'm an absolute sucker for customizable spells, so Morrowind was like my holy grail when it came out.
>>737613713efficient leveling is only necessary in Oblivion. the only two things you have to remember is put a weapon in your primary skills and match up your birthsign with the type of class you want. new players should always take The Steed or The Lover.
Morrowind was the last game Bethesda made for people older than 12
>>737611884>reviews say>everyone called it>but /v/ saidI literally do not give a shit about what others think
>>737614950
>>737614480The Lady is the best sign.
>>737611884who cares about some old uncs opinion from 2002? They probably dead as we speak right now.
>>737611884Daggerfall has 0 complexity and this is only regurgitated by people who have never played it.
>>737611884>when it came outyou have no idea what you are talking about, zoomer
>>737611884kys zoomie
I like how armor actually works unlike the other two games and two-handed weapons are much more viable That plus Sujamma makes Morrowind the Warrior's game
>>737611884>>737611943>>737612512THE SAME THREAD. EVERY DAY. FOR 20 YEARS! HAAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAAHAAHAHHAHAHAAAAHAHAAAHAHAHHHAHHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>737615482>extra personalitymiss me with that shit
>>737613469I would not say that, there are less ability and character creation is much worse in Morrowind
>>737615482steed is the best. my speed stat is 300. They say this game doesn't have fast travel. They don't know shit about crap
>>737619536If you remove Daggerfall's useless language skills, then Morrowind actually has a higher number of skills. Of course there are countless other differences, but that single fact encapsulates what Daggerfall's "complexity" is truly like.The game gives you tons of choices on the surface, but most of those choices are actually fake and they don't amount to shit in practice. Daggerfall's Illusion skill has 3 spell effects in total. That's it. Just THREE spell effects for the entire magic skill, and all 3 are just different flavors of Invisibility. So you see, when people mention the fact that Daggerfall has the highest number of magic skills, that's the type of shit that they don't mention. How convenient.
>>737621338>useless language skillsThey wouldn't be useless in a game that had handcrafted content, an wasn't afraid to actually use them for anythingTES games are so poorly designed with regards to "soft" skills that they struggled to even justify having one, a problem that's practically unique for an RPG
>>737621776 For a systems-driven game like Daggerfall, it would make sense that the language and dialogue skills are systems-based rather than hand-crafted.However, a truly systems-driven dialogue system is a colossal weak spot for RPGs in general. There's no saying that it can't be done, but nobody's found a way to do it yet (without turning it into a terrible pie-eating minigame).So I wouldn't necessarily say that Daggerfall shouldn't have *tried* to make the language skills more systems-driven, but what it delivered is about what you would expect: absolute dogshit.
>>737622575Hey, that pie eating minigame was kinda fun, and somehow still a significant improvement from every option other than bribes being effectively useless until you pumped the fuck out of all the relevant numbers far beyond what any other playstyle would ever require of youGiven that Morrowind's wiki format already leaned pretty hard on copy-paste dialog outside of quest relevant text, I think it would've been possible to implement a puzzle mechanic where you'd initiate a dialog tree of semi-randomized themed statements and responses and have to navigate it properly to get the desired outcome, with the length and the amount of dead end or fail state choices being dependant on your numbers
Because everything after it was Bethesda walking back features and gameplay elements that will never return because Skyrim is what Elder Scrolls will be from now on, you following and arrow to kill things in a cave, opening a chest of loot and doing it somehere else for some other reason.
>>737611651ITT: bethesda fans vs bethesda fans
>>737611651Morrowind is good but half of the skills are straight up bad or unplayable.
>>737613240>Most players are too filtered by the lack of quest markers to realize that half the quests haveBecause FG quests are not the norm.This is like saying Oblivion and Skyrim quests involve talking to NPCs about quests because you can chat about contracts with your fellow Dark Brotherhood members and Thieves Guild buddies.
>>737625713>FG quests are not the normYeah, they're the ones for retards
>>737624850Elder Scrolls fans vs Bethesda fans *
>>737621776the problem isnt that there isnt handcrafted content. the problem is that the language skills just arent useful enough, because the success rate isnt high enough and each skill only applies to a single enemy or a few enemies. the language skills in general are a cool idea, but they should have been more generalized and convenient. would have been cool to see like a "beastmaster" skills where you can pacify beasts like rats and bears
>>737626739So each side thinks they are better than the other.
>>737611651Morrowind was actually the beginning of the end of Bethesda. Morrowind is a great game and it was Bethesda's foray into console gaming, it did very well on the original Xbox and Bethesda pivoted to making their games for consoles first and PC second. Its all been downhill since.
