KotOR isn't as great as your nostalgia fags suggest.
the main appeal of RPGs like this is being able to visit towns and feel immersed in the universe. but most of this game is just doing shitty long dungeons
I still need to find a way to play it on the monitor that only supports 120hz without freezing after battlesFighting Malak 1-on-1 this way is pretty miserable experience
None of the BioWare games are, except for bg2.
>>737621554>visit towns and feel immersed in the universethe problem that those towns are usually 2-3 small corridors filled with npcs with copy-pasted voice lines
>>737621505So much better than what would be written today. Seriously, did people forget how to write? Or is it that my generation just flat out fucking sucks and doesn't know how to write to save their lives?
I played it last year and I was surprised at how incredibly dog shit it was. The appreciation for this game is 100% childhood nostalgia (everything is amazing when you're a kid) + star wars nerd homosexuality (some people would buy dog shit if it was star wars themed). I can see how if you were 10 years old in 2004 this would blow your mind, but outside of that context the game is straight up garbage.
>>737621632This. BioWare only gets praised so highly because they were the first to do what they did. Aside from that their games are glorified dating sims with “ancient evil awakens” plots.
>>737621760>the game is straight up garbage.yes but you can romance a really cute tsundere (who then gets raped by the main villain)
Ok well i liked it
>>737621893Really not helping the accusation that people only like BioWare games for their dating sim elements. Their games are like the Persona of the west.
>>737621632The first Mass Effect is goodShame what they did with the series after though
>they still haven't made a sequel to KotoR 2It's a shame. Kreia was based.
>>737621632The first Dragon Age is goodShame what they did with the series after though
>>737622107ME2 is the best one IMO because it focuses on the characters rather than the plot, which was always BioWare’s real strength. And ME1’s RPG elements and Mako sections were clunky, so some streamlining made it play smoother.
>>737622037>Really not helping the accusationwell, duhThose games are pretty shallow otherwiseAs a SW movie experience Kotor I is fine but as an actual game it is really bare bones and barely has any side content / choices
>>737621505Better than Kotor 2.
>>737621505But it is though. I didn't even play it until many years after release and I enjoyed it.
>>737621505It's boring and the mechanics suck, also very linear. For instance doing all the quests means you will never make a good jedi build because oopsie you leveled too much in the normie class and there's a lvl cap hehehehehe :)]>>737621632Agreed.>>737622196>>737622107Both of those are slop for xbox retards.
>>737622271With the mods that re-add the cut content and ignoring the clearly unfinished last level it's good.
>>737622320Sounds like you don't even like RPGs.
>>737621554Are you stupid? There are very few dungeons in Kotor, in fact there's way too few opportunities for combat in total.
>>737622252I would argue KOTOR 2 is better as a Star Wars game. It’s clear the writers of KOTOR 2 had a deeper understanding of the SW universe and the core themes of the movies, whereas the K1 just copied the OT with some Prequel elements sprinkled in. KOTOR 1 is just a slightly better Force Awakens.
It has flaws and isnt a perfect game but I think it’s one of the better starwars experiences in that it convincingly immerses you and makes you feel like you’re there in that world. I remember making slow progress because I was enjoying inspecting everythinf and trying to look for secrets, which I won’t do in a game that actually sucks.
>>737622397That's the problem, I do like RPGs. So when a game fails at every level except "having lightsaber and hot-ish girl", I don't like it.
>>737622405kotor has a lot of dungeons. in taris, you go down underground, then the sewers, then shortly after you go up and have to infiltrate the base. those are all basically dungeons. then once you get off taris most of the planets are just dungeons. the water planet is mostly a dungeon, the wookie planet is mostly doing stuff in the woods. very little time is spent actually being in the towns and engaging with NPCs
>>737621505It's the antichrist of cRPG genre, directly responsible for killing it for 2 decades
>>737621679>did people forget how to writeArguably yes.>does my generation flat out suckThe problem is that for the most part, RPG writers now aren't really in tune with what makes RPGs immersive (the writing). A lot of the older writers had backgrounds in short stories, novels, and D&D campaigns, while most writers now are just people with a BA in literature who happen to like RPGs (usually in the "i'm such a nerd ecks dee" way). I've been to a few book fairs recently and it's staggering how many booths are just run-of-the-mill smut, which for years everyone laughed off as corny but is now considered high literature by the average millennial. There isn't a desire for books to immerse you, but rather just to get you off.
>>737621679Kotor 1 is typical for Bioware Karpyshyn garbage. All characters talk like children, especially main character, with constant quips and cringeworthy lighthearted atmosphere everywhereIt's proto Marvelslop
>>737621679>Seriously, did people forget how to write?It turns out that self-published fanworks are not equivalent experience to working under a professional editor. Its more that people stopped writing and more that the entire step of the workflow where a neutral third party overlooks your completed work for mistakes has been completely removed from the process.
1 isn't. The writing is fairly generic. 2, on the other hand, is as great as my nostalgia suggests.
you zoomie freaks cannot possibly fathom how much better the writing and dialogue was in these older games. I can quote lines from the halo, dragons age, mass effect, that are straight poetry. to be a writer, you actually had to prove that you had the ability to write, along with the fact that the writers were white males which makes a big difference in the quality
>>737622336I played the base version last week. >maps too big>too much combat>too much non consensual party and character swapping / solo sections>ending has no closure (ebon hawk flying off credits)>Peragus is a bad introduction>talking to Visas once locked out Handmaiden>party member stories are locked behind affinityProbably more. Kreia was based.
>>737623070>halo, dragons age, mass effect
>>737622745Speaking as a zoomer who is now a published author, I think the big problem with my generation and the Millennials is that they just don’t have any exposure to media beyond what they grew up with, or with any media made before the 90s aside from Star Wars and LotR for that matter. The writing was on the wall when millennials considered Harry Potter to be high art. As for zoomers, a lot of their influence comes from seasonal anime and light novels with heavy wish fulfilment/escapist themes. To be a good writer, you have to engage with older media and also have a broad palate (beyond just the most popular works of each era), so that way, you have a broad range of potential influences to draw upon.
>>737623070>dragons agePoor mans Infinity Engine game even when it was newAnd this man calls anybody a zoomie freak when that franchise was built off zoomie illiteracy
>>737622271Kotor 2 is peak fedora tipper millennial writing, that shit is not Star Wars. Kotor 1 was simple but effective
>>737621505I had three phases as I got older:>KotOR is great>KotOR's writing sucks so much the game is unplayable>KotOR is still a good game
>>737623176>Speaking as a zoomer
>>737623312I think people can forget that a game with bad writing can still be a good game. Even RPGs.
>>737622271Kotor 2 mogs it simply because you can influence your teammates to go light or dark. Also the cast is simply way better.
>>737623292Revan alone acts like mentally handicapped or a 12 years old kid. Kotor 1 is unplayable without PC Response Moderationhttps://deadlystream.com/files/file/335-pc-response-moderation/
>>737623292>get to Nar Shaddaa>tell beggar to fuck off>Kreia "you kick puppies"Max light side btw.
>>737622320You know that you don't need to level up, right? The game stores your exp for you. You can leave the first planet as level 1 and become a 1/19 Jedi if you want.
>>737623239KOTOR 2 is pretty cool but the whole "Jedi are just as bad as the Sith" thing is old hat by now. Star Wars writers have been banging on that drum for 20 years. At this point, it'd be more interesting to see a work that treats them like the heroes again like in the OT.
>>737623405>Revan alone acts like mentally handicappedwell, it is not surprising given his backstoryPoor guy had severe brain damage and also was literally brainwashed
>>737623071>talking to Visas once locked out HandmaidenYou get a cool scene with a duel between waifu Visas and Darth Handmaiden. But it's ruined by not allowing you to play as Visas and win/lose, you don't even know how it ends.
>>737623292KoTOR 2 is full of Chris Avellone’s fedora tipping slop.>muh everyone is le morally grey!>muh jedi and sith are le one and the same and both are le bad but also le good!!
>>737623438how the fuck do u beat Basila fight as lvl1 char on highest difficulty, anyway i dont think lvl1 is even is optimal for most builds
>>737622320>Both of those are slop for xbox retards.Dragon Age didn't even run correctly on consoles. They did a weird 3rd person view on it that the PC avoided.
>>737623515They were portrayed as incompetent in the OT too. Obi-Wan and Yoda wanted Luke to kill Vader, but Luke broke the cycle by choosing forgiveness, which allowed Anakin to fulfil his destiny and bring balance to the Force.
>>737623523>You get a cool scene with a duel between waifu Visas and Darth Handmaiden.isn't this from the restored content mod?
>>737623545Grenades. I beat Starkiller in the arena as a level 1 just by spamming grenades.I think the lowest level base you want to be is 2, depends on how you want to build your Jedi.
>>737623438Wow thanks anon that totally makes it not dogshit
They're outdated software. Most people talk shit about games like Dragon Age Inquisition or Baldur's Gate 3 but then I went and played BG2 and KotoR... welll, the writing isn't that much better.Guess the same millenials more or less worked in both games so it makes sense.But there is definitely not a huge difference in quality. And the gameplay tends to be clunkier, but this is a contention point: too much QoL features (limited save options, harder combat, inventory management) and part of what engages the player is also gone.
>>737623402It's cool as an idea but doesn't amount to much in the end because the game was unfinished. For example when you turn Handmaiden to the dark side she still complains when you kill civilians and you even lose influence with her as a result which is retarded.
>>737623646Yes
>>737623676A simple solution for a simple issue. Sorry your monkey brain cannot figure out that you don't need to press the level up button every time it's over your portrait.
>>737623515Just because it was done poorly in Disney wars doesn't mean it was bad in KOTOR 2. I consider it to be more compelling than any of the movies personally.
It's always kind of weird seeing anons praise KOTOR1 because I both feel like this board would absolutely tear it apart if it released today and recall that it's reception on here was far worse on average in the past.
It's OK enough, it's got Star Wars, but what heights does it reach? Ultimately it's a fairly linear slog with little interesting gameplay or "le choices". It's OK though..
>>737622405dungeons also referes to boxed in open areas to me.
>>737621632This but with BG1
>>737623883No point in speculating what ifs. KotOR1 was well received in its time and it now has the "classic" status conferred to those who stand the test of time, even if flawed.But if the same people who played 1 had to experience it anew nowadays, much older, I do agree with yout that their reception would be much different.
>>737623883I’m convinced that 90% of the game’s praise comes from the plot twist (which is admittedly a really good twist), but without that twist, it’s just a lame OT rehash. You could actually argue the twist was their attempt at a “I am your father” moment.Also, it’s binary morality proved to be extremely influential on many games in the 7th gen, including Mass Effect, Infamous, Fallout 3 and Bioshock.
>>737623883>this board would absolutely tear it apart if it released todayThis is true for just about anything, site is filled with people who don't actually engage with the hobby and are just here for the social commentary.99% of RPGs released between 1999-2009 would be torn about for "millennial writing" if released today or some dumb shit like that.
So is this the new contrarian thing? To pretend to hate KotOR?
>>737624458KOTOR isn’t a bad game, but I think people are coming to the realisation that BioWare were always a bit overrated, even before their “decline”.
>>737624458It's a good game. People just remember it being a lot better than it actually was.
>>737624458>Dumbed down combat system, in fact game basically plays itself on it's own, with you only really having to control player character>Linear, small maps>Party size allowing for only 2 companions>Shallow character building>Cringeworthy, childlike dialogue>Focus on cinematic values and appealing to consolefags>Story are just memberberries for OT and Phantom MenacecRPGs connoisseurs always hated it. Kotor 1 is slop for masses, just like Morrowind
>>737624458"Old thing you like is actually bad" seems to be the new in thing among (you) starved sad acts yes.
mod which makes the stupid headgear invisible is mandatoryhttps://deadlystream.com/files/file/690-invisible-headgear/
>>737621505I wasn't a big fan of KotOR. KotOR II I replay almost yearly though. Fantastic game.
>>737624305>KotOR1 was well received in its timeIt was well received in general but I honestly don't really recall much discussion of it on here specifically that wasn't just comparing it unfavorably to 2. I have always preferred 2 myself so it's possible I'm biased but I think I'm usually pretty good about that.
>>737624701Kotor always had this god awful d20-based system.Maybe they got it from neverwinter nights
>>737624458you have to understand that zoomers are the majority on this board now. they literally cannot fathom how life was when this and other games of it's era were released. they can only view it through youtube video essays, contrarian opinions, and the skewed image of the world as it presents itself today. hence why you have so many bumbling idiots in this thread alone
>>737623515>the Jedi sat and waited while Mandalorians attacked the Republic>the ones who mobilized to fight back returned as self-proclaimed Sith after the war's end and started a new conflict>it was named "Jedi Civil War" because the galaxy's average joe can't tell the difference between Jedi and SithIt's a perfectly valid sentiment, given how most conflicts in that era were started by rogue Jedi
>>737623515In OT the Jedi were a forbidden and gone Order, whose legendary (and possibly fictional) ideals Luke looked up for.We don't know much about Obi-Wan, we don't know much about Yoda.The fact the he ended up the ideal Jedi based just on the legends about how they should be is a nice touch.It's one of those 'Don't meet your heroes' moment. Especially if you consider Vader was supposed to be this great unmatched Jedi and you see the current state he's in.
>>737621505
>>737621505Story and atmosphere are great, gameplay is terrible
>>737624380>Anons shitting on BG3's writing for that while praising 1&2>Post actual screenshots of 1's dialogue>Get berated and accused of being a shillI don't even like BG3.
>>737621679Back then the writers may not have been on the level of professionals, but they did know exactly what the target audience wanted, because they were the target audience too. They also tended to consume media that supported what they were writing, so their own work would have a similar tone. Lastly, they may have been nerds but they were also functional adults who had their own life experiences to add to their writing.Nowadays game writers look at their audience with contempt, because they all secretly believe they’re hollywood writers that have been unjustly forced into the writing slums, despite the fact they couldn’t write their way out of a paper bag. Their idea of reading material is a Harry Potter fanfiction or milking farm, and their life experience is browsing blueksy while they’re supposed to be working.
>>737622037BG3 should already prove enough that people care a ton more about romance options than actual plot or characters
>>737621604You have to cap the framerate to like 75 or 85. The games start dying if it's too high.
>>737621505As someone that played KOTOR 1 and 2 for the first time this year, Kotor 1 is fantastic compared to 2, 2 sucks past peragus and telos honestly, nar shadaa is kinda cool though
>>737621505Of course it isn't. No BioWare game is.It's still good though.
>>737625656And this is why RPGs are dying. BioWare and Atlus were a mistake. It speaks volumes that if you play Mass Effect or Persona without dating anyone, you miss out on a sizeable amount of content and get a sub-par experience overall. It also says alot that Persona didn’t get popular until they added dating sim elements.
are there sny games that nail the kotor mood of running around planets, but also add space exploration?i don't mean something like kotor + rogue squadron, though thay sounds pretty neat too
>tfw no Mission romance
>>737621505>Good game you like isn't actually good because I'm a faggot named OPOk
>>737621505It actually is, I say this as a zoomer.
>>737627371You really only miss a tiny amount of high effort content in even Persona 5 Royal if you don't do a romance. It's 99% context in your head. There's also basically no actual dating sim content in Kotor. I haven't played BG3 but the fact that you guys have nervous breakdowns about the tiny amounts of this shit in old games makes me think you're being hysterical about it too.
>>737628557Romance in these games amounts to pandering to a certain character and being rewarded with a black screen and an ending slide.BG3 has one extra scene with tits and dicks (and a bear if you're into it).
>>737621505yea it is retard
>>737627884The Old Republic has got you covered. There's a Sith Warrior companion who is literally just Mission with a different name.Her romance is also kinky as fuck, including her wearing a shock collar to bed.
>>737628747you are mentally ill
>>737621505Yep. Hope the remake fix this #blm #pride
>>737622714>likes playing xboxalways consoles...
>>737628557Realistically each character in BG3 has maybe 10-20 minutes extra content for romance in a potentially 100 hour game.It’s relatively tiny, but due to it being heavily featured in marketing it’s what nogames tend to latch on to when they want to pretend they’ve played it, both to fit in with people gushing or shitting on it alike.
>>737621554What are you, a gay? I dont want to role play a fucking townsperson. I AM a townsperson. I want to roleplay a knight slaying beasts and demons. And those are in dungeons
>>737628985Its a shame how little content companions have in SWTOR. I wish they just made an RPG instead of an MMO.
>>737629227TBF I remember it being more of a "core" feature in Dragon Age where it would tie into politics and endings and shit for a lot of characters (I haven't played the last Dragon Age game either though, I mean the old ones). But I also thought that stuff made it interesting enough not to just be a dating sim.
>>737629703Romances in DA:O were weird because you could fast track them immensely by just buying gifts.I really don’t like it when vidya romances amount to “fill a meter and get a sex scene as a reward”. They could make them more nuanced than that.
>>737629839everyone should play with this instead of the lazy bioware item dump they did with dlcs, absolute niggers for doing ithttps://www.nexusmods.com/dragonage/mods/6218
>>737629396How did you misconstrue his post that much?
>>737621554>the main appeal of RPGs like this is being able to visit townsWrong.Visiting towns is the least interesting part of crpgs.
>>737628985Yeah but Vette isn't 14(out of 10)
Why does the armour you can wear in KOTOR 1 and 2 look like absolute dogshit? Cool armour and outfit designs is something Star Wars has always done well.
>>737631373Outstanding, I should really replay KOTOR
>>737630101>instead of the lazy bioware item dump they did with dlcs, absolute niggers for doing itTo be fair, I doubt the devs wanted anything to do with the mountain of promo items in the first place. It's also an awkward position where there was likely pressure from EA to make it available ASAP to further entice players and not wanting everybody else to feel like content is ripped out if they're actually placed by hand. It might seem particularly lazy in retrospect when you have the UE but you gotta remember lots of those items were exclusive, people were already complaining that the game wasn't complete on launch, and there was a decent amount of controversy over the Blood Dragon Armor being a preorder bonus.
>>737632197i know devs arent to blame, i remember Sawyer hated item drop u get in FNV but was forced by suits to do it, afaik his mod changed it
>>737621505I never played Baldur’s gays or whatever the fuck everyone is talking about here.But I’m pretty confident that KOTOR was actually good. I think it was due to solid gameplay combined with a strong grasp of Star wars lore that made it stick out.
>>737625691well, surprisingly enough the game does not have any options for framerate (or I guess not really surprising since it is just a console port)and I am on linux and nvidia settings there suck ass
>>737621505The fact the 'x old thing isn't that good' threads aren't banned for the obvious reply bait they are is proof the mods are all corrupt troons
>>737621505>it sucks for everyone because i don't like itget your head out of your ass, will ya?
People tend to forget but Kotor I also had DnD, Juhani and Manaan so it cannot be great by defaultWhat was with the obsession with simulating dice rolls in computer games?Things like natural 1's and 20's have no place there
>>737621505It's amazing, one of the two only BioWare games I like. Really beautiful planets, great companion cast, good romance with Bastila, fun campy choices and consequences, great pacing from beginning to end with small bumps in sewers and forge, and plot twist plus ending make it a very memorable story and the villains you face are introduced in a nice manner to give you a proper reason for disliking them or wanting to face them for rule of cool like Starkiller or Calo Nord. It sparked joy.
>>737635827It's also proof this board is shit
>>737629396>I AM a townspersonimagine being a literal irl npc
>>737621554the fuck are you talking about retard
>>737623176To add to your point: you have to sometimes read dry or challenging or complicated things that make you pause and think. You have to push through some stuff that makes for an unpleasant moment so that, when you're done, you have either the satisfaction of a bunch of new concepts, or at least the new perspective gained by exposing yourself to material that is not immediately gratifying. I don't think many people do this anymore. There is a lot of talk about "quit the book if you don't enjoy it. Life is too short." and lots of advice about how to hook the reader. The mentality is that it has to be quickly entertaining. Which would exclude Brothers Karamazov and Plato's Republic, which I read last summer and benefitted from, despite not enjoying those as much as the Ender's Game sequels that I also read. There's really no way out of it. Broadly, I think the ceiling for writing is just permanently 60% as high as it used to be.
>>737621632Bioware walked so Persona could run.
>>737622861>>7376230011’s characters are almost universally extremely annoying. Canderous being the sole exception as the politically incorrect old brute guy. Jolee, who is often held up as some sort of writing achievement has the very definition of “wholesome chungus” dialogue. Mission, T3, Zaalbar, and to a lesser extent, HK have essentially no character. Juhanni is an extremely annoying sjw insert who bitches at you about racist humans at all times.Bastila is only tolerable because she is hot.
>>737640957Mission is also hot, have you seen her massive butt?
>>737621554The appeal of RPGs is mechanical and narrative roleplaying, playing a role both in a story and as a member of a party, as well as resource management
>>737621760yeah, it's 100% star wars nostalgiaits not bad but it is not a strong CRPG
>>737622494>It’s clear the writers of KOTOR 2 had a deeper understanding of the SW universeI suppose if the intent is that Kreia is a dumb lying bitch that's wrong about everything and not just the writer's fedora tipping selfinsert.
>>737638580Anon, you are as well. None of us are living a game protagonist's life.
>>737621760the prequels were stinking up star wars at the time so basic competent fanservice was considered amazing
>>737621760I replayed it last year and had fun. It was better than I remembered.
>>737641791Disney's Sequels suck ass. Where's the fan service content that looks good in comparison?Or maybe the Prequels created a golden age of Star Wars world building that was capitalized on in a way that Disney could never even begin to touch.
>>737623572What do you mean? It ran okay, and very few people exclusively played DAO in isometric view on PC.
>>737625731That's an odd sentiment, most people prefer KOTOR II, myself included. The plot isn't necessarily better but the worlds you visit and the variety of items are much better, as well as the abilities and powers.
>>737642120Never saw them and the people that care about real star wars are too old for new videogames
Kotor 1 isn't as good as you remember Kotor 2 is even better than you remember
>>737621505I played it for the first time like 5 years ago and thought it was excellent. Also your GPU drivers are broken.
>>737642570Kotor 1 is much more fondly remembered than Kotor 2 at large
