You didn't ask for this, you didn't choose this, yet there it is
>>737626324
>>737626324>EVIL RACES ARE BAD GAME DESIGN! REEE!Oh cool so we can have nuanced and 'good' Nazis in media now?>S-SHUT UP GOY NOT LIKE THAT!
>>737626324Evil is a conscious choice therefore if a race has no choice to be evil because it's in their nature, they aren't actually evil
I disagree that evil races are bad game design. They make things simple and easy. For both the gm and the player.
>>737626858Like wasps
>>737626858No, evil is a conscious choice within a group that shares moral framework If something outside the moral framework directly and repeatedly antagonizes the group, the group is allowed to label it as evil and dangerous
I like Orcs who have some nuance or culture aside from fightingBut demons should be malicious spirits for a reason, otherwise they would be just be normal angels or fairies
>>737626324These guys had their brains rotten by the woke mind virus. Thankfully mainstream politics has moved away from such positions. However, with the blue tsunami coming in the upcoming American elections, it's entirely possible they'll try to shoehorn woke stuff again. Maybe not, because there's been polling that says the electorate overwhelmingly finds the Democratic party too liberal, which they might listen to, but you never know.
>>737626324'evil' races are bad game design.races should be alien to your point of view.why do the orcs raid? because the gods left them unfinished, unable to create, only consume.why does the mind flayer flay minds? he's hungry, why does the kender steal? because he has no concept of ownership beyond "i would like to own that"'good' races are also bullshit.but in the story of a STORY you shouldn't need to justify how the goblin wanted to be a painted before the adventurers caved his head in, just to avoid some sad onliner from bitching.shit dude, even HUMANS are inscrutable based on culture.like the jeet and street shitting, or the american and mart sharting.or british food.
>>737627045I like orcs who are all 8 foot tall green muscle women who have a craving for human cock
>>737626858>Evil is a conscious choiceEvil is the end result, the action.Blowing up a bus full of children is evil, it doesn't matter if the person pushing the button is a lobotomite programmed to press buttons.
>>737626324Identity politics by proxy aside, it's just a lazy shorthand for having evil monster villains that also somehow are their own functioning society. If they're not gonna be mindless monsters you could just introduce them as a FACTION of evil monsters. You can have the pillaging Orcs without making it so all orcs are just pillagers by default. Do Orc politics, like the evil Orcs are a nasty faction of Orcs, but they're actually a funded Psyop by rich goblins (jews). THAT'S more interesting.
>>737626324Did he just call baldurs gate 3 bad game design?
>this race of evil tribal retards does nothing but rape, pillage and ruin civilized society "HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE YOU OBVIOUSLY MEAN BLACK PEOPLE"tiresome
>>737626858it's like cosmic alignment, man. it's a very nature of those particular universes. this crap about choice means nothing.
>>737627215Same thing with pitbulls and monkeys. How am I the racist one, yet you associate black people with animals and monsters?
>>737627773I'm muslim and I do none of that.
>>737627943Stay out of europe
One of the few interesting fantasy ideas and of course it gets ripped out for "realism"
>>737627997I don't live there. You probably don't either.
>>737626324I like when the evil race is actually good and the reason why I like it is because most of the time the evil race is bad. If the evil race is always good then I no longer have a reason to like it.
WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF INTERNET
>>737626324Correct, we should go back to the Lord of the Rings model where Orcs are just Evil Elves who sold their soul to the demon king for power.
>>737626858>create robot whose programming is focused solely on crushing baby skulls>robot crushes baby skulls>you (retard): erm that's not ACTUALLY evil.....
>>737626850Nazis aren't a race. They're a political party. You choose to join.
>>737635297The robot is not evil. It's just a bunch of metal and wires. Metal and wires cannot be evil, much like how guns can't murder, only people can do that.The creator of the robot, who chose to make a baby skull crushing robot and is responsible for his creation, is evil.
>>737626324So whats his argument?
That's storytelling you doofus, not game design.
>>737627091> or british food.That one’s easy.The islands were relatively fertile, meaning covering up and/or padding out bad ingredients wasn’t necessary very often. Then rationing put a bullet in whatever traditions still remained, and by the time that stopped any innovation got the credit given to somebody else, like how vindaloos are technically Scottish but always get called Indian.
>>737626858mm yes... indubitably...
anyone giving Extra Credits any attention is retarded. the moment they came out against gamergate i dropped them
>>737626765Succubus on the right is hotter
>>737627215>>737627672This has always been disingenuous/revisionist though. The only reason they make the comparison is because you did first.
>>737635881I've been told for the last 12 years that all white people are nazis by... you
>>737641235No, you haven't. I know your victim complex really made it seem like that, but no, that is not a thing that actually happened.
>>737626906White anglo saxon protestants make a choice to be evil every day
>>737627110The lobotomite himself is not evil, the gut that programmed him to is
>>737626324Evil races are boring because all stock fantasy races are boring 9/10.>>737627045>But demons should be malicious spirits for a reasonI kind of like it when they are chaotic neutral assholes but not really evil.
Very nuanced and intelligent rebuttal of this nonsense: https://youtu.be/FM202-a0QCUThe creator is a bit of a pseud, bit everything in this video is solid
>>737626324Evil works, so you can evolve into being evil.
>>737641980>1:35:47i ain't watching that
>>737626324>evil fantasy races? Bad>killing human conscripts because they’re in the baddie uniform? Good
>>737642463I can't believe yall now questioning every military shooter ever because one told you the nazis deserve to die
>>737635881aryans are a race
>>737635297Correct. The builder/programmer are evil. This is like, the fucking oldest thing in the book. Bitch, this is high school lit 101.
>>737642463>Human constrictsSelf proclaimed Ayrans are not human by their own definition. >>737642620See above. It's okay to murder Nazis because they are not human.
Evil races are actually good game design, because they facilitate gameplay where you can mow down endless mooks without having to worry about nuance or feeling bad. It enables a power fantasy where the player is a hero of light and goodness fighting against a tide of evil and destruction. It allows narratives that want to be simple to just focus on the greater conflict and the meat of fun gameplay, instead of having to set aside narrative resources and spotlight for some kind of elaborate justification as to why tens of thousands of free-willed individuals decided to follow a dude in spiky armor to destroy the world. People like being right, they like having the moral high ground, a degree of complexity that doesn't fit the story you're trying to tell, or the game you want to make, just undermines that. Players don't want every success they achieve soured because you remind them of the orphans they created or anguish you inflicted on hundreds of innocents.
>evil race used to be good/neutral but some terrible event slowly warped/deformed them over time until they became unrecognizable
>>737627091Why does nigger steal? Because "gibs me dat".
>Um, actually, we know how to write chud!!>All the races are the same!!>They all have the same IQ!!>No race is evil, and everything is nuance!!!>Their culture is all the same! They all love fag sex, transpeople, and leftist ideology!! They all practice gender equality where the men and women do the same thing!!>All the human cities, even the ones in the desert and in the snow regions, are melting pots with niggers and browns in them!!!>They're different in... they're different in... in... ummm... different degrees of violence, but that doesn't mean anything, THERE ARE NO EVIL RACES CHUD!!LEFTY LIBTROON WRITING
>>737626324>>737626765both are bad, "evil" races should have a degree of inclination for evil but shouldn't be automatically all evil, like how most crocodiles want to rip your face off because that's their nature but that doesn't mean there arent some that end up being docile enough to be someone's pet
>>737626324If you're THAT concerned about having orcs and goblins be stand-ins for blacks and Jews respectively, just use them instead.
i think what I mean by this is that I want a pet succubus to suck me off on the daily and cuddle with me during the night if you catch my drift
Bad races is fundamental in ludonarrative design which is game design. You need an object to play against. It's only bad in a grand morality narrative sense but even then not everyone who plays games do it didactically but rather just to have fun.
>>737627045WoW Orcs were a good example and if I'm really dating myself, the "proto-orcs" of the "Green Men of Mars" from the John Carter / Barsoom books. These were not evil, but were perceived as savage, but individuals could make choices and stuff like WoW Orcs had a long line of ramifications for their choices but also humanized why they made them rather than them just being Warhammer style fungii that like to fight because they just did. >>737626765All but the last one stick. Japanese games have had >Religious organization and clergy, especially if pervasive and supposedly benevolent, are actually evil in some way since the 80s and 90s. There are plenty of games that have benevolent churches or even christian-inspired religious figures (ie early Dragon Quest healing/reviving etc) but usually when there's a large, hierarchical religion spread across the world with a pontiff / high priest equivalent and/or intermediary people with both spiritual and temporal authority, that's usually where shit starts going south. There are even a handful of games where even a "good" Shinto animist type religion accidentally opens a gate to somewhere or fucks up, even if the religion itself isn't evil. This is where you have shrine maidens or onmyoji equivalents taking up the cause to close the portal, defeat the evil, or whatever it may be. So more variety there.
>>737626324What if I like to roleplay as evil characters and dont want them to be redeeming?
>>737626765Ultima VI pulled that third one decades ago btw.
>>737626858>Evil is a conscious choiceEvil is elemental and dependant on results its not completely dependant on intentionality and choice. >>737635973But then the robots are tools being used for evil regardless and therefore can be considered evil.
>>737644725A hammer doesn't turn evil if you use it to bash someones head in. It stays just a hammer. The robot is no different.
>>737626324Every instance we know of evil irl is cultural, not biological. Making an evil race stemming from biology is lame because you don't get subverting characters like Drizzt.
>>737642874Pussy shit, most people don't care. It's basically just dumbing shit down.
>>737638417>The only reason they make the comparison is because you did first.and who exactly is this diabolical "you" to which we keep referring? If there's some grand conspiracy going on, the right hand doesn't appear to know what the left is doing.
>>737644846A hammer used to murder someone becomes a murder weapon anon. A tool is an inert object but when used for an evil act embodies the action it was used for. A machine programmed to crush baby skulls serves only that purpose unlike a hammer, however, so the intentionality of the tools design is rooted in evil. Guns arent inherently evil since theyre tools used for many purposes that arent as simple as cold blooded murder, an actual murder robot is designed for only murder and is therefore evil. Evil is dependant on results not just intentionality
>>737645303>A hammer used to murder someone becomes a murder weapon anon.But that doesn't make the tool itself evil. It's still just a hammer. It didn't do anything. It would be idiotic to say that it has to be thrown into the furnance for being evil.> A machine programmed to crush baby skulls serves only that purpose unlike a hammer, however, so the intentionality of the tools design is rooted in evil. Yes, that is the evil of its creator. It's rooted in that evil. But the machine itself cannot be evil, it just exists as a machine doing what it was made to do. The steel is value neutral.This is also why it sucks to fight clankers btw
>>737644846It is a little different in this hyperbolic example.The robot is built specifically to crush baby skulls. It has intent in design, just like how the hammer's intent is to bash nails into wood while the fact that it can also bash skulls being purely tertiary to the tool's intended use.If the robot can do other things and become like a tool, that is also tertiary to the intended use. In the same way a gun can be used for multiple things, but the intended design is to lob a hot chunk of metal really fast to kill something.Therefore, the tool ultimately has an evil alignment due to the way it is designed and intended to be used. The onus of morality is still put upon the creator, but the robot must be removed/destroyed to preserve the lives of babies. Perhaps it can be rebuilt into something more productive, but then it is no longer the same tool.
>>737626765
>>737645526wtf give him back his sneakers!
>>737626324thank god we've evolved as a society since those days.
>>737644625Except gargoyles are not demons and actual demons still exist in that universe.
>>737645542Name 6900 games
from my perspective, it is the good that is evil
>>737645526>Therefore, the tool ultimately has an evil alignment due to the way it is designed and intended to be used. The onus of morality is still put upon the creator, but the robot must be removed/destroyed to preserve the lives of babies.Note how the second sentence contradicts the first. You first assign morality to the steel, then reassign it to the creator.Of course it still has to be destroyed. A lot of things are harmful to us and must be destroyed or redirected away from us. But we understand that those things just are. The baby crushing robot doesn't hate you any more than a tsunami does.
>>737645767Hate is a non factor when it comes to evil. I could love you to the point of psychosis, but it wouldn't make me less evil to kidnap you for that reason.There is also no contradiction. Both the creator and the robot can shoulder the burden of evil, I simply assign more fault to the creator than the robot. As you said yourself, the robot must be destroyed: it is unfortunate that it cannot think or feel or fight against the purpose given, but it's creation is evil, the actions/consequences it has are evil, and thus it is an evil tool built for an evil purpose. In this example, it literally cannot have a good use unless you alter it, which it then no longer becomes the same tool.
>>737626324Evil races are fucking cool, simple as. I'm tired of soja-addled faggots trying to ruin them for us.
>>737645470>It would be idiotic to say that it has to be thrown into the furnance for being evil.No but its become evidence in a crime, a murder weapon. A tool used for evil. Its not the source of the evil but it has been used for it>But the machine itself cannot be evil, it just exists as a machine doing what it was made to do. The steel is value neutral.A robot is not just steel it is programmed to perform a task. If its programmed to perform an inherently evil task then it is an inherently evil machine until it is programmed to do something else.
>>737647335You sound like the kind of person who pets a roomba for doing a good job.
>>737626324Evil races are practical. That way I know who to kill on sight without asking questions
Evil is something you understood perfectly when you were 5. It didn't change or get more complex since then, you just started coming up with justifications for your own little evils.
>>737647680Roomba's are still around?
White liberals are so racist that they don't realize that when they forbid subhuman races like orcs from being "evil", they imply that subhuman races like Africans and Pajeets are despicable in their eyes, LOL.
Humans should be the evil race.
>>737647995IT TURNS OUT IT'S MAN
>>737635881>Makes a race that is heavily inspired by Nazi Germany Heh, nothin personnel, kid
>>737643593Picked a pretty bad example there because crocodiles literally lack the cognitive capability to be docile. They commonly kill eachother on reflex, sometimes even harm themselves. There's a reason you call the most primitive part of your brain the "crocodile brain"
>>737648103Futurama was truly ahead of its time
>>737648371It was making fun of a well established twist, anon. The twist is just still around and incessant.
>>737642620They are not and no one is born ideological.
>>737626324there is no evil, evil is just a human construct, stop being an ignorant filthy humanist
>>737647989Fear of the unknown and tribalism are very powerful factors in human psychology. Your average white middle class liberal is still as alien to foreign people as white middle class conservatives its just that instead of xenophobia which manifests for the conservatives liberals manifest xenophilia, both of them rooted in an inherent conception of otherizing the unknown. Even liberal literature that discusses how "evil" otherization is unconsciously affirms self identification against different groups. The liberal just adds more prejudice to themself by judging those who would not profess some xenophilia towards out groups while ignoring that they even have a concept of a out group besides ideology.
>>737626324DnD has an idiotic system making alignment an actual codified thing, but "evil races" being bad design is just retarded. Nothing states that Dark Elves, or even Orcs (non-lotr orcs that is), are an inherently evil race. It's instilled in them by their culture and upbringing. Drow are evil because their society is evil. And as races are typically monocultures in fantasy, that makes their race more or less evil. This problem only truly crops up in settings with inherently evil races which usually have an in universe answer for this anyway (like lotr).But the only reason these fags care about this shit is because it makes them think about blacks because they can't stop thinking about blacks.
>>737626324>Uhh, wow- your game has a race of brutish, violent, simpleton savages? What, do you hate ni-BIPOC or something, you fucking CHUD?!
>>737643593The best way I have found to define it is "can you live in a gentle and orderly society without causing major disruptions or harming others?"The more likely a species can do so the more often you will have "good" instances around in a setting.So like your average goblin is to much of an low int adhd asshole to live in polite society but can function fine in say a lawless pirate port.
>>737649370The point of the argument these writers make is>but why is it just that one race which holds that culture, isn't that racistWhich I think is some weird newthink shit. Of course orcs who just wanna wage war and beat the shit out of any other tribe aren't inclusive lol. This is also ignoring that even in real life there are beliefs and cultures that only race holds. You ever see anyone practice child sacrifice to voodoo ghosts outside of african blacks? I sure am not aware of this being a thing that's commonly accepted. In parts of all-black communities in africa it sure is a relatively regular thing though. What writers really want to say with all this is that they think that it's a little icky and uncomfortable to portray orcs as wild savages because it brings to mind the idea of africans being wild savages. Which I think is fair, if you're a retarded pussy. I did make the same comparison myself too just now.
>>737649370>>737649604>>737649685You guys aren't slick about trying to play innocent. /pol/, facebook, and other places had this narrative way before.
>>737649839I can find an OP for every radical and retard opinion on this site. Good thing I'm not a big enough fag to actually save them and parade them around discussions like they mean anything.
>>737649839The fact that you bring up random shitposters rather than anything indicating a genuine societal belief should tip you off to the fact it wasn't a commonly held opinion.Bring up Gygax and maybe someone will listen.Even Howard didn't believe it, since Solomon Kane makes it crystal clear that despite some implications in Conan, he didn't believe Africans were inherently brutish savages.
>>737649839Its been a thing going back to the release of Lord of the Rings, Tolkien was called a crypto fascist by crying lefties even back in the day
>>737626858From my perspective the jedi are evil
>>737626324is this another thinly disguised "Orcs are black people" video
>>737626324>>737626765/v/ is not immune to this, btw. You retards will argue pages about why frieren demons are not evil because they are hot
>>737650286>The fact that you bring up random shitposters rather than anything indicating a genuine societal beliefCome the fuck on.
>>737649839My point was precisely that it's a horseshoe thing. I'm racist and I'll see niggers in orcs. But lefties also see niggers in orcs and start getting the ick. That's the whole concept behind >let's stop portraying orcs as savages guys...
>>737650738It's more about how the explanation of Frieren's demons is inconsistent, and how they sometimes act like normal people even when there's nobody to trick.
>>737650738The Twits argument. Also damn Frieren looks so bad.
>>737650738you're a fool if you don't think /v/ loves evil women
>>737650738Fuck no. Any attempt to portray demons as anything but incarnations of evil is subversion. Japs could maybe be excused because of the common "yokai=demon" mistranslation that makes them believe Satan is like a shinto spirit.
>>737650780Having an evil race that you can just go around and mindlessly kill without thinking is just comparable to talking points about "the other" in general.
>>737638143fuck off Avellone
>>737626765You can do both, but the right needs to be a rare occurrence. Instead because so many settings and stories do it, the 'cool twist' loses it's effect completely.
>>737650375That was michael moorcock and I have his elric saga behind me. Either I need to burn or stomach it as I want to see whats inside
>>737626850Literally schindler's list. Also Brokken Jr. From kinnikuman.You socialist losers deserve what you get.
>>737626765kill demonsbehead demonsroundhouse kick a demon into the concrete
>>737641512You are such a fucking kike. May your mother be struck by an Iranian missile in her sleep.
>>737652346Follow demons to their home plane and kill them so hard they die foreverScour their home down to the bedrock so nothing grows there for a thousand years
>>737635297Bad argument since leftists literally throw babies into blenders and celebrate it and it's considered a virtue to do so in modern society. They only get mad when you point it out and then try to pretend that's not what they're doing.
>>737626324Yeah I don't know why God created jews to be like this like dude come on raping kids doesn't matter if they are below 3 years old? Body mutilation? Child or animal sacrifices? Rampant aggressive schizophrenia? Come on God...
>>737626765How Jewish
>>737627943Stay in of Europe
Do I find it more interesting if in a fantasy setting they don't just stick to the tropes and explore the nuance of different races? Yeah. Do I enjoy the modern fantasy trend of making usually evil races into wholesome good bois? Fuck no. There is also a time and a place aspect to this. Why would I care about the culture of orcs in a dungeon crawler?
>>737654109Okay, do games actually do that? Because not even BG3 bothered with that. The goblins were not all mindless evil in the sense that a lot of them had different personalities and they could be reasoned with, but those personalities were still just varieties of asshole.
>>737654346I think I'm getting my TTRPG frustrations out moreso.>HYTNPDNDIt's infected a lot of others as well.
>>737635973The creator is not evil. They're just a bunch of atoms. Atoms cannot be evil.
>>737626858The choices you make are expresssions of your nature. A lack of inner conflict and inability to change just makes you even worse than one who does wrong but is capable of remorse.
>>737655169You can say that the universe is too deterministic for anyone to make choices, in which case evil just doesn't exist, but it is far more practical to assume free will exists.
>>737650738She just needs a good bellybutton licking to simmer her down
>>737626324Evil has a lot of definitions so people will pretend not to understand.Is the race being called evil because it attacks humans? It feeds of negative emotions? Are they sociopaths with no empathy? It's an invasive species?>>737650838If you play a role for a while the ticks can sometimes stick. That's the explanation I'm going with. They're evil in my book because they have no empathy and kill people. At most they might be interested and do research but nothing past.
>>737655380That is a venus fly trap made of hate and evil that is shaped like an anime girl to trick you into walking into its maw.
>>737655329So you're saying that it's the choice to commit evil that makes evil evil. I don't really care to differentiate between a mind that chose evil out of many possibilities and a mind that can only choose one evil possibility.
>>737655492Just toss her one of these bad boys, dominate her with her own relic, then you get endless blowjobs for life
>>737638417...but nobody did tho. It's literally an invention of the left to claim anyone but them said evil races are a stand-in for blacks.
>>737655669Sure, intellectual laziness is a choice too.
>>737642538>yall Why do faggots love that word so much?
>>737650738It just makes them flat and boring. It also doesn't make sense that people would keep falling for their shit when their "trick" is killing everyone.
I was reading some french webcomic about how demons are actually heavily corrupted humans that cannot die, but once all pure human souls are saved, heaven will try their best to redeem the demons back into humans for they are all God's children, but for now heaven must fight them protect the pure.It was tropey and had pretty preachy dialogue, but I found the baseline idea pretty neat.
>>737655929it's good bait to make (You) seethe
>>737626324It's interesting how these fags had a go at TotalBiscuit when he was in the hospital because he had some basic opinion or whatever. Apperently they did a really good job memory-holing this moment because I rarely see it brought up. This was even before the retarded facist video so they were already a bunch of crooks way before.
>>737655749>playing innocent and lying still
Evil races are necessary in RPGs (both vidya and tabletop) because you need shit for the players to fight and, although having nuanced and interesting enemies is good, you cannot give EVERY encounter nuance and depth. Sometimes you just need big evil monsters for the players to mow down without having to worry about anything beyond 'how can i noscope this gnoll the fastest way before it chops my dick off'
>>737637983Giving them attention in the first place is where you went wrong. They were always shit.
>>737645593Reminder that women and faggots made this happen
>>737656552You don't need evil races for that, you can just have evil factions. The result is the same.
>>737645031the problem is humans are the only "sentient" race on this planet. If we start lookin at animals however there's prime example of the same concept.
>>737642463I really don't need to watch a second of that video to know the person is a faggot.My childhood memories of RTCW had the nazis as goofy goombas to shoot at, compare it to to the bizarre shit going on in the new colossus and it's totally different.I find it hilarious that they really tried to stamp down on the whole current politics thing with indiana jones but the reputation of the studio meant it wasn't a total hit. The only thing that struck me as odd is how fucking bizarre il duce looked, it's like someone had a copyright to his face.
>>737626858Nah. It's far more complicated. Evil is not always a conscious choice in fantasy.Nor is it a choice one takes willingly at times.For the former we have Tolkien's orcs. They are evil because they were created this way by Morgoth. To be the antithesis of elves. They didn't choose to be evil. They were born this way. And it's impossible for them to turn good because they are too spiteful and hate the other races too much to open up.Then we have the Drow from D&D. They are evil due to what happened to them in the past due to their nobles doing stupid shit that angered the elven gods (and it hit the common folk too by association). On top of having one hell of a grudge, they all live in a dysfunctional society that somehow still holds itself together and are at the mercy of their asshole gods with the head goddess of theirs being responsible for a lot of things including the events that caused them to get banished to the Underdark.But due to how their society is constructed, its shown that Drow are not inherently evil and are sick and tired of living in their dysfunctional society. This also ends up with them actually turning good later on (or at least neutral). Not to mention there are Drow that worship Eilistraee which is one of the very few good deities of Underdark. In the end they can end up in a society where they can live a better life and not being forced into evil.Same is with Drow who were raised since childhood outside of Underdark by reformed Drow/Eilistraee worshipers or by good people. In D&D's cases it's the environment and experiences that cause people to be good or evil (or neutral). Just like in real life.However demons and other creatures that were born evil are just that...with some exceptions turning good due to a series of circumstances.
>>737656552I disagree. You don't need evil races for that at all. This narrative about needing them just seems flimsy as fuck to me and always has. For the longest time, the most common enemies in fantasy are just basic human bandits and other humans in general that presumably have friends and family, and nobody has ever really cared about the ramifications of that.
>>737626324What if the fantasy race is a bunch of literal nazis?
>>737626765kek
>>737626858That doesn't change the part where you still have to cull or outright destroy them to stop the evils that they spread as part of their nature.
>>737626858It doesn't change how you interact with them. Whether or not Orc Boss Murderskull is ontologically "evil" or not, his existence is still intolerable. The situations he creates and the actions he takes are indistinguishable from someone who willingly chooses to be evil. His motivations, in the end, are irrelevant. Only the results he produces matter.
>>737626324listen, the walking undead have feelings too. don't be such a chud.
>>737642752>Human constrictswhat do serpentes have to do with anything?
>>737642752So then murdering trannies is also fine, because they are not human. If they were, they wouldn't constantly demand human rights, they would just have them. Ergo, they are not human, but something else parading around in a human skin suit seeking to subvert humans. Ergo they are all evil shapeshifters that need to die to save humanity.
>>737645031That's just circular logic. Evil is cultural because we define evil in cultural terms. The consequences are the same whether a murder was carried out by a man or by a bolt of lightning, it's just how we choose to frame the event that casts one as evil and the other as tragic.
>>737627091>Kender
>>737635881>You choose to join.Yes I am sure all those little kids totally chose to join em.
>>737632712In a manner of speaking it was a concern in some high density population centers, due to signal interference. The solution? Just install more wi-fi hotspots. You might still get some disruptions if huge masses try to use their phones in the same location, but you might run into issues with overcrowding the area (and with it, public safety risks like crowd collapses and crushing), which is a bit higher concern than the local network being overloaded.
>>737626324I guess these people don't like warhammer
Leftists are just as controlled by jews as neocons. It's just instead of directly supporting jews and pissrael they make up insane discrediting "theory" to waste everyone's time.
Beastmen aren't an evil race, they just all choose to murder and cannibalize
>>737661304old mate card showing there.they were one of the first things that jumped into my mind for a not evil race that had a misaligned culture with ours.literally just "what if you never developed a sense of ownership, so nothing could be stolen" an entire culture of innocent sharing, meeting a world of greed where a shiny object wasn't to be shared, and should instead sit unseen and un played with in a vault.shit, kender dont even want to KEEP the shit they steal, because if someone else takes it then they probably needed it more than you at that time, and when you need it again you can go get it.fuck i wish they weren't impossible to actually put in a campaign without being little shits.sure the modron are another great example of another race thats alien to humans, "what if there was a 'race' of beings that consider humans to be disordered brutes (orcs) because they live in a perfectly ordered society, and therefore treat humans as humans treat orcs" but they're also gone from modern DnD because thats hard to write around for the pre-built modules all the kids run now.
>>737626324Why wouldn't a race stand in solidarity? They don't have to be "evil". They just have to be your enemy, which makes them evil.
>>737626765This is the kind of inversion that allows, nay, direct me to align with fantasy Hitler.
>>737655949Well...I mean...There is a group in real life that's the same.
>>737644725Guns don't kill people.I kill people.
>evil races are unrealisti-
>>737665892More 5G brain control.
>>737666442old people burning old people burning
>>737655949Who is "they"?
>>737626765That's literally a Sinfest comic.
>>737626765LITTLE DO THEY KNOW, GIVING THE SUCCUBUS GLASSES ONLY MAKES ME HARDER
>>737626850they literlaly made this video with the "STOP PLAYING AS NAZIS IN MULTIPLAYER" vid that pretty much made everyone abandon them.
>>737645303>A hammer used to murder someone becomes a murder weapon anon.But does the hammer become evil in this case? Is the hammer evil?
>>737644625Childhood's End did it in 1953.
>>737645767>>737646165Evil is a judge of moral character. Someone committing a murder because they are hallucinating and aren't conscious of what they're doing isn't evil. They're dysfunctional. Evil describes a moral framework. Not an event and how good/bad it makes you feel. A non-sentient machine has no moral framework. Someone tripping balls/going on a rampage due to medically induced hallucinations is not acting upon a moral framework.
>>737626324>Can't have evil races>Can't have stupid races>Can't have smart races>Can't have ugly races>Can't have beautiful races>Everything has to be a human with some bullshit glued to its head and some special snowflake powerAnd that's why D&D died.
its just they culture
As with everything else, execution is the only thing that matters. Tolkien did evil races and evil overlord right, and it's a classic, other works do it wrong and it's just boring. BTW IRL we do have evil races, in Africa they rape toddlers to cure aids and they cannibalize albinos because they believe it gives them magical powers. Maybe it's dey cultuh but it's still evil as fuck.
>>737659885Whatever retarded post-hoc justifications you want to come up for killing the hypothetical orc are completely irrelevant to the semantics of the word. I don't care who what or why you want to kill. Words have meaning in order to convey precise information. Retards like you throwing words around based on the "vibe" they have is how you end up with libshits calling anything right of Lenin a nazi.
>>737642752Get raped
>>737667118Thats cultural evil, the issue with Africa is that you cannot track down the source of these evils and then be done with it and force newborn Africans to be decent people because Africa is not a continent made up of countries with distinguished nationalities, its a landmass full of billions of tribes of like 100-200 people who only know how to "survive" not how to live and have aspirations in life beyond destroying the tribe threatening to murder and pillage your people. The closest to "civilized" in modern terms that you have to their people is North Africa as their geographic position got them to interact and exchange a lot with cultures all around the Mediterranean sea.Most tribes in Central and South Africa dont have something like that and remained isolationist and hostile for thousands of years. And putting them in Adidas t-shirts with modern haircuts is not gonna take away thousands of years of tribal culture off.
>>737626324>But what about the good world-eating eldritch abominations?
>>737667098humies don't season dey quests
>>737668093>the issue with Africa is that you cannot track down the source of these evils I can and it's actually very simple
>>737626870thiswhile also retaining the core flavor of the setting
YOU'RE NOT MATT WATSON I'M MATT WATSON
>>737626765Just do a compromise. Have human like races be both good and bad and monster races being both good and bad. You are subversive but keep some traditional aspects. See dark elves or tamed goblins/orcs. It's not new
>>737626324it really depends how you do it. wildly different opposing cultures and races can open up a lot interesting ways to expand both the setting and the game's level and enemy designin a melody of scales, all monster races are artificially created by god monsters to spread their will. as a result, they are all fundamentally theocratic, hierarchical, and believe their race to be the superior one as they are god's chosen children. their morality is based entirely around god's will, instead of the welfare of any race or species. if this was the biblical binding of isaac, both the monster father and son would agree to sacrifice the latter to please god. they are, at a core level, ideologically and culturally opposed to humanity, dwarf, and elfkind, who are by contrast egalitarian (for the most part) and believe in anthropocentric morality. does this make monsterkind fundamentally evil? maybe. but it gives the setting a unique tone that the game wouldn't have if it wasn't there. hell, the mc is a violent religious fanatic who used to behead blasphemers as a job, and is forced to play nice with people she sees as evil and inferior because that's the only way to end the war they're all in.
>>737626858I don't think choice and nature is an on/off switch. Most evil people do evil things because their brains ask of give them rewards. If a human is really craving to kill that makes him not evil? What if people like him were an alien race?
>you don't need le evil races you just can just have le evil factions!!>please ignore that mowing down hundreds of members of an 'evil' faction is more morally reprehensible than just slaying pure evil orcs!!!I hate this gay shit. You should be able to write whatever you want to. If your story needs an island full of evil fuck goblins that have no redeeming qualities than so be it.It's just the Jewish trick of opposites. Beauty and goodness is bad, and evil rape orcs are actually good!
>>737645031How is it that retards haven't caught up to the idea that if you subverts the expectations every time it becomes the norm, and therefore not subversive
>>737627045Tbdesu, I think a story of a demon trying to be good and struggling because of their nature wouldn’t be the worst.
>>737670850That guy from Extra Credits unironically said that killing people who join an "evil faction" is more moral than killing an irredeemable evil. Incredible how some people are just recently catching up to the fact that lefties are evil
>>737671026>I think a story of (character) trying to (subvert expectations) wouldn't be the worstHave you tried any story ever?
>>737671467He also said we shouldn't have Orcs in games because blacks would see that the genuinely evil race of barbarians are basically them. The guy is deranged.
>You didn't ask for this, you didn't choose this, yet there it isFirst time with that scalding hot cup of responsibility?
>>737626858Blessed midwit retardation that's dooming the world.
>>737655949haha
You absolutely should have evil races in fantasy. If you want good orcs and tielfings and shit then that's for the players. They get to play the freaks and that's fine as long as they are willing to deal with the (merited) fear most people have for their races. Furthermore, if you have a problem with NPCs being racist towards underdwellers, devilspawn, and savages then you weren't playing those races to RP as those races you were doing it for stats or worse, attention. Saying it's bad game design is retarded. Expecting an evil monster and gaining an ally is completely out if we don't have evil races. If we're talking about D & D; devils and demons are evil by their very nature as evil is a spectrum of alignment and the very cosmology of the universe. It's only bad game design for people who lack the creativity to make a compelling evil character or are butthurt no one wants to party with the demon worshiping faggot who constantly wants to fuck NPCs and monsters.
Orcs were originally created to be more morally comfortable to kill creatures than just murdering other humans, but marxism happened and now killing humans is more acceptable than evil incarnate itself.
>>737638143Is there a name for this kind of performative contrarianism besides safe horny?
>>737650738Literally only low IQ leftists defend the Frieren demons.
>>737655949There are people RIGHT NOW who fall for their tricks despite the manga explicitly showing them how retarded that is. The genius of frieren is on a meta level, the author proved that the demons' strategy works even across dimensions.
We need more media where orcs and humans sometimes form warbands together like in Battle BrothersI always thought that was a natural concept. Orcs always fighting among themselves is not just a goofy stereotype, it genuinely makes sense that they'd have no problem joining or being joined by human bandits, since they have no true enemies other than the orc/man/person standing on the opposite side of the river. There's no difference from a human pov either between a human bandit and an orc raider.
>>737635973People are just squishy bones and nervous systems, how can they be evil
>>737673954>If you want good orcs and tielfings and shit then that's for the players. They get to play the freaks and that's fine as long as they are willing to deal with the (merited) fear most people have for their races.No, fuck that. Gatekeep harder. This is how the problem gets started.
>>737675227it is a shame the exception seemingly always eventually becomes the rule
>>737626324Apparently North Korea is bad real world design
>>737626324>You can't have an ideology that doesn't align perfectly with mine!This is why the adventure genre is dead.
If one continent on earth had no humans, for example Australia, and it was instead inhabited by 100 million chimpanzees who would violently murder any human who set foot there, would we say they were an evil race?
>>737626324>undead as a 'race'OH FUCK OFF
>>737675690Not a race.
>>737675690why would you bring morality into it at all? that's for humans. DnD has cosmological alignment, it's not like ours. it's fantasy.
>>737675690You have the real example of Sentinel Island, and no they are not evil.
>>737675752If orcs are a race then apes are too
