Why is this sci-fi such a protected franchise here? It’s honestly overrated
I never met anyone who outright hates Warhammer it’s always guys who like old warhammer and hate GW or nu hammer Why would you hate warhammer entirely?
>>737665330erm, it's machismo fantasy therefore bad
>>737665330I have been seeing more outward hate to Warhammer from losers Old hammer is kino I’d understand nu hammer
>>737665102I like sci-fi but everything about Warhammer looks like it's something made by a fan and not official.
>>737665102You just have to be a certain autistDo mechs and armor give you a mixture of fear and arousal? If yes then you probably like warhammer and battletech
>>737665102>overratedWarhammer may be the largest TT outside of DnD but in terms of media at large its mostly unknown and isn't a household name.
Warhammer tards ruined it
>>737665102Manchildren. This Anon >>737665330 is spot on, it used to be more "80s metal" and fun, now its peak "that guy".
>>737665330>I never met anyone who outright hates Warhammer>>737665610>I have been seeing more outward hate to Warhammer from losersI wouldn't say I outright "hate" it, but I find it profoundly boring, and therefore I see no value in it.
>>737665102>It’s honestly overratedHow so?
>>737665828>Do mechs and armor give you a mixture of fearNo, they're just cool>and arousalOnly the spider legs ones
it's fake fashy for fat nu-males
>>737667812AYO WHERE DA ARCHEOTECH AT
>>737667812That is the stupidest shit I've ever seen. Its so forced. I mean catholic super romans in space is open to a bit of modern criitisim but this is a bit much.
>>737665102yeah it is, but there's nothing quite like it and it has a strong identity so people latched onto itdon't think there's any other scifi franchise that features space paladins and technofetishwizards ripping the heads off space orkz
>>737670525We had niggers since dawn of war 1 tho
>>737673648Does this look orgainic too you? Also I find it funny that you can actually have a blonde white ceaser figure as long as you chuck someone black in the foreground
>>737673648>since dawn of war 1It's still a fairly recent game.
>>737665102Because in most English-speaking countries you will lose your job or go to jail for being openly racist and Warhammer allows you to simulate racism towards aliens as a proxy
>>737665330I don’t care whether it’s Nu or old warhammer. I don’t care if it’s 40k, warhammer fantasy, or age of sigmar or Horus heresy or fuckin mordheim or blood bowl. They are not good settings. They do not offer good stories. The asthetics are fucking bland more often than not. The only reason why people go to gw now is because gw lived while superior ips died just because of the nature of the times. What gw offers with their settings are bloat, they capatalize on your imagination and never, EVER fucking deliver on it. Not in black library, not in their campaign books, not in army books, not in their tabletop games. Also all of their video games are dogshit.
I think Warhammer, while pretty cool, is one of those things some people use as a kind of "nerd qualifier." I'm sure you all have had a run-in with one of these people who does the whole phoney schtick of just acting like they're so passionate about Warhammer lore, but they don't play the game, don't paint figures or anything. They just want somebody to say: "Gee. You're such a nerd."
>>737667812GEORGE DROID!
>>737667812That's a man
>>737665330this anon gets it>>737667125>boringThat's a new one. It's the last thing that comes to mind when thinking 40k imo>>737677353>dow1>fairly recent gameDudeIt's a game from 2004. It has been 22 years.Warhammer 40.000 is from 1987. There is less time between the birth of 40k and DoW 1, than there is between DoW 1 and now.Not defending this trailer (don't care much about the black woman but would have prefered if we saw the Necrons kill her outright, with other skitarii - it is without a doubt the worst trailer they've released for DoW IV), but this argument is weak
>>737679615>It's a game from 2004. It has been 22 years.Well I feel old now. Where did time go in the 22 years?
>>737679649Time never stops anon. You can't beat it, just embrace having fun while it passes.
>>737665102It's very cool
The whole thing is fucking retarded. These big giant mech suit things. Orcs that say "boyz" and stupid shit like that. However by some miracle lots of the games are really fun and none of that interferes. That "boomer shooter" one was really good. Dawn of War is brilliant. I can also see why people would like painting the minis, it's probably really therapeutic. It's still probably the stupidest looking sci-fi out there, mind you.
>>737667812Well, murdering the senile while robbing their home makes more sense now
>>737665102>such a protected franchise hereBecause I like my xenocidal super warriors to not be fags or women reflecting some bullshit modern political screeching.
It's funWhere else can I find Orcs with machine gunson motor bikes even
i like painting the models
>>737680667I'm looking to start that this week. I've had a can of chaos black spray paint sitting around since the start of covid. Will it be ok?
I like gladius and SM2
>>737679692I'll try to.
>>737680714Should be fine but shake the shit out of it for 10+ minutes. I've had 15 year old cans that are still good
>>737676728the level of mental cuckoldry that some people are to actually rush in to defend black space vikings as completely organic development.
>>737667812George Droid
>>737681637It's even worse considering there are canonically accurate 100% black space marine chapters yet they choose to force them into fucking space wolves.
>>737681637>>737681960Makes sense since space wolves are dumb as fuck.
>>737676728why the fuck do you care though? especially when 99% of the fuckin time they got a helmet on anyway, did you get really assblasted when the salamander in that one short was black too? Fucking retard.
>>737682032The point is we all know why it's done, and we can't pretend we don'tLike with fem-custodes, you see a 'woman' in gold armor and you think 'oh yeah this is that thing they did because of IRL politics bullshit' and then bam, you're yanked out of the setting and back to real life, immersion destroyed
>>737682032Making the Salamander a black skinned Asian because muh blackface was fucking cringe though. If it's not that important, why do they care enough to do it?
>>737676728>>737681637picrel is older than your shitty book, space marine 2, or retards on the internet screeching woke/dei at every black man in fiction.
>>737682497Where is the supposed nigger in your picture?
>>737682523Damn. Scout so good at stealth you couldn't see him.
>>737673648Nigger*. It was one, and he was more "secretive inquisitor" and less "obvious black man here for diversity reasons". Because this was before the initiative to include a black, a gay, and a woman in everything became semi-mandatory.
>>737680287>it's probably really therapeuticnigger you are just gay, lmaoit's fun to paint up some dudes and give them some bullshit backstory and play narrative games with your friends
>>737682523blind and stupid, nice
>>737682497>ultramarines have an empire hundreds of worlds strong to recruit from>vikangs only recruit from one homeworld
>>737665102It's a sci-fi/medieval setting, so it's a universe for everyone. There are robots with heavy armor, magic, elves, and orcs.
Another part the discourse misses is that niggers were fine when they weren't mandatory. Diversity tokens are annoying instead of exotic when you know that there is a checklist that mandates them and that you can't have a team lineup without at least one.
>>737682536>>737682647Are you two seriously going to claim that any man with a tan is a nigger?
>>737665330I dislike 40k because I feel the entire thing's just grown stagnant. Too successful for it's own good. Never willing to take risks anymore. People liked Horus Heresy? Bring all the Primarchs back to 40k! Character died? Their death wasn't real, it was just a model refresh!
>>737665102Safe edgy fantasy racism.
>>737682672They've been around for far longer than 4chan has even existed, much less the whining about DEI shit. Never heard the phrase "token black man" before?
>>737665330It's a setting that lends itself to repetitious and pointless storylines. Every city planet is a hive world. Every important battle in a giant galaxy is fought between the same couple of races. There's no new enemies for the imperium to discover because the writers have to stick to what they have models of. Every Warhammer story either ends with nothing ultimately being accomplished which gets boring after a couple of times or with some totally lore breaking mcguffin being introduced like Epheral Stern or more recently the Primaris. The worst part is people online won't stfu and move on to something else. We're supposed to grin and bear it while these retards keep talking about how amazing and deep Warhammer's lore is. There's a whole subreddit with like a thousand users dedicated to talking about it. Even though anyone who actually knows anything about the sci-fi genre knows its writing is shit and half of it is plagiarized. Then you have Warhammer fans who compare everything to Warhammer. Avatar? Dude Space Marines could kill the Na'vi! Starship Troopers? Dude this is like the le Imperial Guard! Rebel Moon is apparently a Warhammer movie because one of the characters is named Balisarius, despite that being the name of a real life roman emperor. 40kids just make shit up on the spot and nobody ever calls them out on it.
>>737682809I'm old enough to remember multiple waves of these pushes in previous decades, it really changed in 2010s. We moved from positive representation to where anything without it got relentlessly attacked until it kowtowed. Just compare Space Marine 1 and 2 lineups to see the difference.
>>737682809He's a Zoomer he doesn't know about life prior internet controlling every aspect of one's life.
>>737682809they (nog marines, female officers) are quite literally required now
>British IP follows British values.I'm shocked.
>>737682979Female officers have been around for a while as well. Cain's stories has his female aide making it all the way to general. And that's not even mentioning his inquisitor girlfriend.
>>737683039You'd think at some point the slavs and yanks would understand that 40k isn't a American or Russian IP. It's owned by bongs and thus follows the ideals of bong society when it comes to making new content.
>>737682972Bitch please, I saw both Soviet Union and my own country before it had any niggers invade.
>>737683121That's just when they go "what do you mean when you say that the world doesn't belong to America?"
>>737683085Female officers have always been used because it adds flavor for male protags when used moderately. Now it's mandatory and cringe.
>>737683210You mean you can't jerk off to them.If they've "always been used" then them being mandatory means fuck all, because either way they've always been around.
>>737665102Warhammer is the larp of fantasy/scifi and being a gamer. You're more unique than those normies that like Star wars or those normies that haven't went into a Games Workshop before, you're one of the cool guys.It's like RPGs and MMOs where retards want to larp as liking something because they think it makes them unique as they have no personality.It also became a bandwagon for the culture war, both against and for it so people had to larp of loving it to pretend it gives more weight to their arguments.>inb4 autistic arguments claiming that they're different
>>737683308What sort of a sheep are you if you can't see the difference between something that is done because you want to and something that is done because you're told to?
>>737683419>I used to jerk off to naked women when I had to scrounge around for my dads playboys!>now that I can buy my own playboys I hate jerking offYou really sound fucking stupid.
>>737665102>Why is this sci-fi such a protected franchise here?four decades of content and lore (tabletop game btw) is something the nu pop culture industry can only dream of>It’s honestly overratedis it THOUGH?
>>737683490>deflecting this hard
>>737683663>can't even refute how "It's mandatory now so I hate it" is a fucking retarded stanceI accept your concession.
>>737667812>I CRAVE THE CERTAINTY OF STEAL
>>737684574Underrated.
>>737683581"four decades of lore" but most of the "lore" is just copied from something else or recycling something from an older edition's codex. Yes, Warhammer is overrated af.
>>737685370name a single example
>>737672815>yeah it is, but there's nothing quite like itDoes he know?
>>737683684You honestly don't see the stark difference in execution alone? I assume you haven't even worked in your life if you can't recognize corporate mandated bullshit a mile away.
>>737685432Are we being deadass here or do you actually think the franchise with not-alien gene stealers didn't copy anything
>>737685674Every single franchise that's popular has copied major concepts in part or wholesale. Your complaint is retarded to begin with.
>>737685542Nothing you've said explains away the retardation of "I hate how women that used to be everywhere before are everywhere now because it's mandatory". Mandated or not it doesn't change that it's fucking everywhere. You may as well say you hate breathing because it's mandatory and insist that you're not insane.
>>737685709But not that many completely overshadow the things they copy and then go on to go after creators that violate "their" IP the way Warhammer has and still manage to stay popular. That's what makes Warhammer hate-worthy.
>>737685867But women didn't use to be everywhere, just that the trope existed for obvious reasons. You also pretend that the way these tropes were portrayed didn't change drastically as they became corporate mandated.
>>737682746Thats in inherent problem of Tabletops because they are for moneymaking not storytelling.You either make money or tell a story you cant do both because you will eventually reach the stories end.
>>737665102You are brown and a tranny kys
>>737686050There are plenty of tabletop setting with endings. World of Darkness had Time of Judgement and Warhammer even had the end times.
>>737682207>The point is we all know why it's doneNah that is just you pretending your headcanon is real
>>737686531So what do you think is the reason they are making DEI changes that even they know are going to be so unpopular with their customer base that they have to put out damage-control articles specifically to defend themselves with
>>737682746>Character died? Their death wasn't real, it was just a model refresh!Ain't that just all of one character out of who the fuck knows how many?
>>737686242>and Warhammer even had the end timesThe end times lead to Age of Sigmar though.In that way it never really ended.
>>737682898Belisarius was not an Emperor he was a General
>40gayWho gives a shitWarhammer Fantasy is and always has been the superior game and setting.
>>737688008>Rebel Moon is apparently a Warhammer movie because one of the characters is named BalisariusMy understanding is that the reason people call Rebelmoon a Warhammer movie (or from what I've actually heard, a 40k knock off), is the fact that the galaxy spanning government is called an Empire and they have dudes who dress like picrel.
>>737688079fantasy is a soulless slop, twwkiddie
My new headcanon is that anytime a custodes lost 1vs1 it was a female custodes
>>737667812>has science gone too far?
>>737665102It's 4chan's choice of the setting, which is why it's massively more popular than anything else here. Star Wars is still larger than 40k in normiesphere, but here was exiled to small holdouts, like general on a life support on /vm/, meanwhile 40k has multiple generals on /vg/ and keeps claiming moreHonestly, if you don't like 40k, you don't belong on this site
>>737689432>Honestly, if you don't like 40k, you don't belong on this site>if you dont like negro worship girlboss anglo universe you dont belong hereWell I do not belong here then and Im proud.
>>737689826Yes40k is the chosen setting which shall bring forth destruction of capeshit.
>>737667812>head of a mechanicus sect>still has most of her flesh>has a very clear islander accent with british toneit's so funny to me that they had to keep her flesh and ugly voice just to show you she's blackgemran's are such retards
>>737690205Warhammer is the definition of capeshit Even old hammer is guilty of this they are obsessed with status quo in this franchise nothing truly ever happens to break up anything
>>737688874Imagine being so wrong and retarded
>>737688569Yeah but Snyder said in interviews his main inspiration was Heavy Metal magazine and Warhammer copied the commissar design from the ABC Warrior's Volgans so it's likely a case of them taking from the same sources. It's especially likely since both the ABC Warriors and the heroes in Rebel Moon fight in a group of seven like the seven samurai. Plus they're all just Soviet Russia uniforms anyways.
>>737683121>The ideals of British society>Really just rehashed American bullshit they saw in films
>>737690397All memefaggotry will die a violent death once 40k reigns supreme. Wheadonism will be dealt with completely. If it's not serious, then it's shit.>Even old hammer is guilty of this they are obsessed with status quo in this franchise nothing truly ever happens to break up anythingThis is normal for any wargame. Napoleonic game players don't advance storyline to WWI, since that would be retarded.>>73769043740k is Priestley's setting he was working on before he even joined GW. It did not change since RTfantasy is a soulless slop, made out of random fantasy and historical cliches with no thought and reason behind them and then constantly retconned every edition
>>737690205Dan Abnett is literally a Marvel writer
>>737690643I love when people forget that Britian use to be a world spanning empire.
>>737690576ABC Warriors is a 2000AD strip original, which GW had the license for and made miniatures for Judge Dredd and some Board Games as well
>>737687169And now Age of Sigmar is getting its own End Times which is leading to another setting .but the End Times did kill original WFB in both rules and Lore, that is the Ending to that setting even if it is pants.
>>737691015Is AoS ending not just leading back to WFB? Like AoS is suppose to be the "afterlife" of WFB world and theyre just going back to that since they realized that AoS is fucking gay and everyone loved the historical fantasy rather than millenial writer fantasy.
>>737685976yeah that guy is just blatantly being disingenuous
>>737690649>It did not change since RT
>>737692897>Tau were added>Femstodes retcon>Eye of Terror being retconnedThis is all that changed
>>737693115>>Femstodes retcon???i didnt see anything about this
>>737693115>since RTYou're either baiting or you're a legit clueless and retarded newfag. A waste of time in any case. Here, have a second (you), don't spend it all in one place.
>>737690205>40k is the chosen setting which shall bring forth destruction of capeshit.lol?The Horus Heresy novels are the most popular 40k novel series and they are the definition of capeshit.They love capeshit so much they made a Horus Heresy game with Playable primarchs.They love capeshit stakes so much that they're bringing the primarchs back.
>>737693115Uh if by retconned you mean they added the entire hours backstory for the emperor and added the entire chaos faction to replace enslavers then I guess you're right
Games Workshop? Mere like Gay Wokeslop, lol
>>737693618kekypow
>>737678595Warmahordes fan, huh? Yeah, sucked how that played out.
>>737693791mk2 was kinda fun in a jank but soul way I miss my everblight army.
>>737690752He did one of the more popular runs of Guardians of the Galaxy, if I'm not mistaken.
>>737665845>its mostly unknown and isn't a household nameWhat are your standards for media popularity? Its secret levels episode was the most popular by far and Space Marine 2 sold 12 million copies. 40k is normie media now.
>>737693376no u>>737693472primarchs are utterly irrelevant random imperial commanders>>737693562nothing about this was retconned. GW work is completely self-referential. Tau are still the only actual addition since RT.
>>737665330Why would you like warhammer unless you're literally 9 years old?
>>737693923>primarchs are utterly irrelevant random imperial commandersGuilliman is practically in charge of the Imperium.An Emperor possessed Guilliman burned a massive chunk of Nurgles garden and even injured the plague father.I don't even know why I'm responding to retarded bait on a Sunday morning.
What baffles me as even as it goes some and anons clearly hate it they will STILL argue with you because you hate Warhammer for the wrong reasons Star Wars never has this power to hold nerds this much what is it about Warhammer? Is it truly that major part of of your life or sunk cost fallacy?
40k ingrained itself into a culture war fool hearty. Chuds love it and even as it goes woke it’s still the most right wing based scifi and libtards will scream media literacy and satire but it’s far from that now.
>>737694013Primarchs job to generic humansGuilliman is a complete nothingburgerSecondaries are retarded
>>737694016I feel like if you sink however much money into a full army, yeah, you're going to feel attached.
>>737694081>>737694016Most chuds ignore Nu lore that’s it, you can just ignore it. 4chan should make its own 40k to ignore all 8th ed lore
>>737693472I think Rowboat returning to grimderp timeline is fun since the imperial factions politics, administration and bureaucracy shitshow is too much even for the likes of him. He also keeps losing his primarch/uber boss fights since his return and needs to get bailed out by others.The Lion is just too competent for 40k.
>>737694016The average 2k pt army in 40k easily costs like $1k at least and probably more depending on your faction (Admech, Sisters come to mind), and that's not including other options/units you can take/field for variety or just because you liked the models or w/e.I like 40k but there's a huge sunk fallacy cost to it so people can get incredibly defensive when you say their $2k and dozens or hundreds of hours invested into the hobby aspect are dumb baby shit for retards.
>>737694196Good luck modern /tg/ doesn’t do shit now and it’s dead like this board
>>737694081Why is the most right wing scifi full of suffering and death on an unimaginable scale? Wouldn't you rather live in Star Trek?
>>737694205>I think Rowboat returning to grimderp timeline is fun since the imperial factions politicsI actually like it too in the sense that its all too much even for someone like a Primarch and even the acts of what feels like a man who truly wants to do good and enact changes for the better just can't stop the Imperium from failing catastrophically.Written well it can be tragedy kino.
>>737690205Night Lords are the chuddiest and cringiest legion
>>737694482Iron Warriors are higher on the chud scale 2bh
>>737694016Huge generation gap. Star Wars is a great example, people used to love it, cool movies, some great video games, shit novels and other crappy merchandise etc. Then the prequels happened, and lost the "old guard", some nerds still like it and Clone Wars and whatnot, the OST is really good I guess. Then Disney happened. Now imagine a diehard fan of Disney Star Wars, that's the equivalent of the modern 40k fangay, same thing but more "chuddier".
>>737678820Warhammer these days is basically a sci-fi fan refuge
>>737694324That’s what right wingers want
>>737694354I dont have high hopes. Its a fine line between propa grimdark and misery porn and I dont think modern 40k writers are capable of separating the two
>>737694324because suffering and struggle makes for good storiestry reading a story where everything is perfect and nothing happens(you)
>>737694717I should have clarified I like it in theory I highly doubt it will play out the way i, or we, want it to. Like I said, I feel 40k errs more towards capeshit with primarchs in modern 40k.
>>737694683>sci-fi fanEdgier capeshit fan*
Even as this shit goes woke it will still be the only chud refuge of scifi that’s insane to me
>>737678820In my own defense I can only have so many expensive hobbies. I already play Battletech tabletop and dont have the time/space/money for warhammer models on top of it. Im content to read the books and be a simple lorechud
>>737694852Post your company, anon.
>>737694810There's only so much you can do to make shit woke in 40k.Like the Admech once build giant conveyer belts to dump Tau civilians into a volcano. You really can't wokify something like that very well.
>>737667812Adeptus Fentanilus' fines
>>737678820Its cool merch, guys like cool stuff. Its like people who collect gundam shit just think they look cool they dont give a fuck about the shows. I know it kindof sucks but you cant blame people for wanting cool stuff, they just shouldnt be authority on it.Genuinely, they cracked the meta in the 80s and 90s, and now every company is ignoring it. Make cool and rad as fuck designs that people want to buy toys of and people will come to the media its associated with, theyre not making "cool" anymore.
>>737694810>>737694921Even inserting black or gay people into the imperium is useless they are all genocidal maniacs
>>737695318>adding blacks and gays isn't actually badStage 1: Denial.
>>737695417Vulkan's been around for a long time, though.
>>737695417I’m not defending it but it’s clear you can’t really wokify it for brownie points
>>737695480Vulkan isnt black as in giant nose and big gums african spear chucker blackvulkan is literally black is in onix colored skin and salamanders are black becuase of all the radiation from their planet, not because they descended from gorillas in africa
>>737682715How odd, usually /v/ claims any character with a tan or a shadowed face is black when they're obviously not, and you do the exact opposite.
>>737695480You mean the Salmanders? They're (well, were) Caucasian Übermensch with pitch black skin due radiation and some genetic problems (same reason with Blood Angels are "totally not vampires", Space Wolves terminal furries or Ultramarines gay). But guess you want them to be African niggers now, you disingenuous faggot.
>>737682945>Just compare Space Marine 1You mean the game with an out of place female IG officer? And where you only see two other Ultramarines with their helmets off?
>>737690396>herwhat the fuck?
>>737690649Again, you're stupid and retarded. 40k is the soulless slop corporatetard setting played by nothing but fat, unwashed whales, while fantasy is the actual quality setting with interesting factions and lore and characters.Also>It did not change since RTlmao
>>737695724She was a second lieutenant if I recall - a minor officer who took command of her regiment because everyone who outranked her was dead by that point.
>>737665102>Why is this sci-fi such a protected franchise here?christ is kang tards love it
>>737696046Yes, you are correct. And she wasn't a girlboss either, she was scared and over her head but doing to the best she could.But that doesn't change my point.
>>737690205>>737694482>Night Lords>unabashed villains and edgelords>their novel trilogy is somehow some of the best stuff in the entire 40k
>>737693115https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnIgtQ_80N0
>>737695953watch the vid anon, lol
>>73769020540k is the textbook definition of capeshit, except maybe slightly more edgy.
>>737665330its not that I hate it, but that I have absolutely zero reason to care about it. I'm not into grimdark inherently. infinite redshirt meat grinder and a setting that will never progress towards a resolution, while the stories of deaths of entire planets are completely in consequential and treated as such. there is no tragedy in genocide of trillions because muh emperor said it was a good thing. all factions are equally bad and all deserve death, but its not infinite hell demons raping you forever so they're the good guys. It is a setting built for smashing little toys together, its not a setting thats valuable. trying to take it seriously isn't possible.
>>737694016Warhammer is a bigger money sink than Star Wars.The closest thing Star Wars had to a money sink was the original EU which Star War fans got very defensive over when Disney moved forward to delete it.Meanwhile 40k's a huge money sink if you actually play the core table-top game, or collect any of the EU media from books to games or just merch in general.40K fans live and breathe 40k, even when they hate 40k for not being the 40k they fell in love with.
>SWNot sci-fi>40kNot sci-fi
>>737696208ADB has never written a good book. Never
40k's British sci-fi for normies who are too afraid of sinking their teeth into actual british sci-fi.
>>737696464Such as
>>737696317>infinite redshirt meat grinder and a setting that will never progress towards a resolution, while the stories of deaths of entire planets are completely in consequential and treated as such. there is no tragedy in genocide of trillions because muh emperor said it was a good thing. all factions are equally bad and all deserve death, but its not infinite hell demons raping you forever so they're the good guys.What you're talking about is the disconnect between a static setting meant to be backdrop to tell whatever stories you want in AND more recent take on advancing metaplot with major players returning and events shaking up the galaxy.
>>737665102how do I get good at any of the advanced difficulties? I can solo the basic difficulties with randoms and carry them all if necessary with little hassle. however as soon as I go into advanced difficulty I'm constantly being shot in the ass by tyranids and chaos while steadily hemorrhaging health until I inevitably die near the end of the level.
>>737695489>we accept all the minorities and women but you can't really change it!Straight to stage 3: Bargain.
>>7376964902000 AD. The actual good Marvel's transformers, aka the UK one. Doctor Who EU, especially the virgin new adventures era, Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, etc etc.
>>737696269How can you say that when there's no superheroes or garish spandex costumes, which is the very definition of capeshit? Very little quipping either.
>>0737667812Is consistently making the black characters the most bland and least cool some ultra right wing pysop of some splinter cell of wasps within the deep state like the dudes in the X-files or what?Also, in all these warhammer trailers now everyone is just so stoic and boring and saying the most bland of imperium slogans. This setting gets weird, each faction have a ton of oddballs with weird quirks and shit. Not least of which are in the mechanicus, tech priests are like always some of the most fun characters in the books because of how fun they are. You couldn't differentiate what this basic ass design black guy tech priest sounds like from what an ultramarine or a sister of battle would say something, other than you just insert the key words with "Mechanicus, omnissiah" instead of imperium and emperor. So boring.
>giving a shit about 40k after primaris slopgo buy the new primaris interjectors and enjoy your slop
>>737696727>You couldn't differentiate what this basic ass design black guy tech priest sounds like from what an ultramarine or a sister of battle would say something, other than you just insert the key words with "Mechanicus, omnissiah" instead of imperium and emperor. So boring.The Mechanicus game found a great way around this.
>>737696729I’m a xeno fan tho
>>737696946Ah yes. Xenos.>TyranidsCan't really tell a story with them in the first place since they're just space locusts. >OrksDAKKA DAKKA DAKKA>EldarBorn to dominate the galaxy, forced to job because Slaanesh cannot be defeated.>TauToo small time for anything and basically alive because everyone has bigger fish to fry.
>>737696681Also throwing Terry Pratchett's science fiction stuff on this since he did more than just Discworld.
>>737696946The imperium is 40kPrimaris thus has killed 40k dumb xeno cuck
>>737697038This is why I hate Warhammer the fanbase is just abhorrent retards who can’t handle other things in a sandbox it’s all human supremacy chud bullshit The imperium is woke now and you’ll still sit here and tell me everything wrong with Xenos
>>737665102I actually don't like 40k that much and think Warhammer Fantasy is better in every single regardthe factions are not completely flanderized and the setting in more interesting in generalalso features Aztec lizards riding dinosaurs who shoot lasers
>>737697123Every Warhammer thread is the same just useless arguments and then that random fantasy chud needing to bring up fantasy
>>737697123Fantasy warhammer never moves along, its stagnant and boring
>>737696727It's all you can do with black guys nowadays.>make a character who has father issues? dats raciss>make a violent extremist? dats raciss>make a social outcast? dats racissAnd so on. Without flaws you can't create a particularly compelling character.
>>737697038>Can't really tell a storyThat goes for most of the factions. Or just 40k overall lol
>>737697121>The imperium is woke now and you’ll still sit here and tell me everything wrong with Xenosbecause you don't understand it's the minis sales that determine what gets attention. eldar and orks are the only ones that get some attention. also, women apparently like tyranids.
>>737697223a moot point considering that the central theme of 40k is that every faction is decrepit and a shadow of their former selves (except the Nids who are fated to eat everyone)
>>737697254Oh god it’s this guy get a fucking tripcode already
>>737696727It sounds just like world of warcraft dialogue sounds now. Overly sanctimonious with zero self awareness and this strange overly dramatic and serious tone to everything they say, while saying nothing and essentially just giving you rts tutorial dialogue.
>>737697223Ah yeah unlike the ever changing 40k, right?>b-but they replaced all my models with gayer modelsNot helping your case.
>>737697447Hey that's not fair on 40k. It changes too. It went from 40k to trying to be 30k2 in recent years!
>>737697447The story moves along in 40K, characters thought dead are coming back with gears being put into motion.What the fuck is even happening in fantasy right now? Jack shit.
>>737697501yes because geedubbs literally fucking killed the setting to make it 40k: extremely gay edition
>>737697223because it's a much smaller scale game where everything big happening has ramifications. you can just will another planet out of thin air.
>>737697498Based, I can't wait to buy more primarchs!>>737697501To be fair I've been ignoring GW for the last decade or so, seems they finally fixed Necromunda. So, what changed in the galaxy? Chaos was defeated? The Tyranids ate all the oks? Eldar finally extinguished? Necrons started to talk and act like Marvel villains? No way it's the same status quo than 20 years ago, right?
>>737697123Fantasy is too much of a parody and they never dare to take themselves seriously with anything. As lame as 40k can be sometimes, it does have patches of gold where you can really invest in the setting for this reason, and is therefore ultimately more compelling and admirable than fantasy, despite fantasy having less faceplant moments or cringe shit.
>>737697687in a nutshell>galaxy got split in half when planet cadia got destroyed with imperium nihilius being the "dark half" where astronomicon light doesn't reach>multiple primarchs returning and vashtorr, a greater daemon of chaos, sets a major plan in motion to perhaps ascend into a new god>primaris marines>necrons no longer being space terminators, leagues of votann being the newly added faction, eldar got a new god and custodes are actually doing shit in the galaxy againmajor things DID happen, but you're talking about lore upsets that can never ever come to pass because it would invalidate entire existing armies. no faction will ever truly disappear, for example.
>>737697845Fantasy is both lighthearted and very grim. It's a very peculiar flavor most people don't really get and something 40k abandoned very early on.
Member Ynnari?
>>737698145The faction that was cucked to death
>>737697994Issue is 40k has this awkward relationship with lore and retcons. Most of it is just "that was always the case and no one brought it up". Votann probably being the most notable example. It's not like they just appeared out of thin air. They were always near the core of the galaxy and other races realize they exist. There were simply no mentions in the lore up until now. Same bullshit they pulled with female Custodes.
>>737697994>nothing happened and they re-added the squat leagues>they are short space marines instead of bikers nowAwesome!
40k fans always complain about woke because just like the writers, they hate any progressive storylines. No wonder Nurgle's so popular. Stagnancy is the life-blood of the setting.
The /tg/ elf troon is here
>>737698145Im still upset about it but i see why it got shitcannedThere was no way to progress their story without breaking the eternal deadlock of the setting. Ynnead being born fully and btfo'ing Slaanesh and giving the Eldar free reign over their powers again is just their version of the "I Win" button and every faction has one but can never use it
>>737698258How is what he said nothing happening? Problem is brainlets want EVENTS abd CHARACTERS to advance stories, and other just want more shit added to the setting they can make use of.
Loli Emperor when?
>>737698298>no mention of elves so farAre you just announcing your coming, troon?
>>737698351chibi primarchs when
>>737698145why do they exist?>gets cucked by Spess Mehreens (because why not?)>the second sword is locked away in Slaanesh's BDSM dungeon>the only other way to summon Ynnead is for their entire race to kill themselveslike, what the fuck? I am not an Eldar fanboy but even I feel bad for them
>>737698390I have a better idea.
>>737698145The Guilliman/Yvraine memes were legitimately the best thing to come out of that entire shitshow.
>>737698335It could have worked as a way to eliminate the influence of Slaanesh, whom the advertisers and US purists hate.
>>737665102It's good but the games can't show how good it is
>>737698412>tuna wolves haha
>arguing about race in 40klol what? There’s always been different races in 40k they quit caring about skin color because of Xenos and basic human survival the imperium just sees a body to use not a skin color
>>737698390Once we'll get official R63 primarch minis
>>737697994>leagues of votann being the newly added factionThey flubbed that one bad. Even Tau got a reaction out of people. Mostly negative, but it showed they care. Leagues were just a blip.
>>737665330Are you seriously asking why someone would be a contrarian, on this site, on this board, of all places?
>>737698391They wanted to get rid of Slaanesh in 40k and AOS at the same time, but then walked back the idea and while in AOS it led to a new line of models for both Daughters of Khaine and Slaanesh related factions. In 40k it led to nothing but the Ynaari just fizzling out as their purpose of existing ceased to exist
>>737697845You've never even touched Fantasy and it shows
>>737698550>R63 primarchstime to piss off this entire thread
>>737665828I swear I'm not an autist.Just a very enthusiastic MechWarrior
>>737665102
>>737698412>Jaghatai Carp>the whiskers mirror the stache perfectly
>>737689037It’s the stupid retcon of having custodes actually have females when THE SISTERS OF SILENCE ARE LITERALLY RIGHT THERE they constantly work with custodes and aren’t weak so I will never understand this retcon
>>737698145>Eldar get a new plot line and faction>Exist only long enough to fuck over Bieltan and then fizzle out of existence.Green Boys can't catch a fucking break. At least the Visarch looks pretty good.
>>737698391>why do they exist?So at the point in time that they were made, GW was undergoing radical internal changes. Chief among these were a re-orientation of their marketing focus; namely to try catering to younger audiences who might not already own an army or two.One of the initiatives in this push was the removal of Slaanesh, who as the "Sex, drugs, rock & roll" god might not fly so well with the parenrs of aforementioned younger audience.In Fantasy, which became AoS, Slaanesh was captured and imprisoned by the new Elven Gods (with some help from Khorne and Tzeentch) and locked away where he wouldn't be seen but GW still had an excuse to let people field Slaanesh models (wandering warbands or some shit).In 40k, which was following the process later than AoS, GW conceived the Ynnari to deal with Slaanesh; which would entail removing Slaanesh, uniting the Eldar factions (thus allowing the Dark Eldar to also be disposed of), and creating a 'Grand Alliance' of sorts since they were meant to become allies with the Necrons.During this process though, management in GW changed, the then-CEO was ousted, and the new management immediately slammed the breaks on all the changes.This mean that Marines got Primaris and their new wave, Chaos got their win and the Great Rift, andall other factions were spared drastic changes. Eldar, however, got shafted because ALL of the Eldar plots got roped in with the Ynnari. This was deemed acceptable by GW because Eldar are not Space Marines.Funnily enough, Slaanesh now has more going on in AoS than he does in 40k, AoS's elves are far more competent and involved than Eldar in 40k, and the new Emperor's Children models are far worse than the Hedonites of Slaanesh. So in the setting where Slaanesh was written off, he's doing better than the one where a faction was dumpstered to save him.
>Cadia ate shit, but we will still force Cadians everywhere>Eldar shitshow that ended with literally nothing>Armageddon barely holding, for 26 irl years>IW and Perturabo starting shit with Black LegionWelp, all eyes on you Pertard. Give us something
>>737689037hey, a femstode that actually looks like a gigastacy instead of a botched troon.
>>737698871the saddest thing is custodes got some "female" models you can't apart unless you use the no-helmet option
>>737689037I'd be fine with female custodes if they were introduced looking like this. Instead we got the bulldyke and a literal humiliation ritual.
>>737698145They were the only interesting Eldar faction for me like please stop the slaneesh wank just for a little bit
>>737698335>Imperium could have the emprah come back/be reborn or reclaim their dark age archaeotech, or even just get the Primarchs back together>Chaos could birth the Dark King or empower Abby to the same level of Horus>Elves could birth Ynnead and kill Slaanesh and use their full psyker powers again>Nucrons could unify under a single ruler and curbstomp any other faction >Orks already won, but could unleash another Beast-level waaaagh and march on Terra>Nids just have to wait for the main fleet to arrive at the galaxy and nom everything through sheer overwhelming numbers >Ctan could reunite their shards and become whole again, or just have the Outsider wake up and wreck everything since Crons are too divided to stand up to the Ctan again>Tau and Votann are cooked regardless LOLThis is my main issue with 40k personallyTheres just so much cool shit that could happen but never will because GW doesnt wanna advance too far and put themselves out of businessI get that its "a setting not a story" but after a while the constant blueballing with massive existential threats that are only two weeks away (for real this time!!!) is just frustrating. Its been 40 years you fuckers
>>737699013>>737699015>>737699037Hey now, those Femstodes models are 10/10s (by British standards)
>>737699015Seriously man I don’t get it
>>737699015Because that was the idea. I do like the bimbos in plate approach some fans out there created, though.
>>737689037...
>>737699180Slaanesh is behind this.
>>737699180>blocks your path
>>737689037inB4 thye canonize "anytime a custodes lost 1vs1 it was a male custodes" and the female ones have been undefeated for 10k years.
>>737699247Acceptable but I don't trust the artystyle. I forget the name of the porn artist it highly resembles. High odds this lady has a weiner.
>>737699261I can absolutely see some EC dressing up like this just to troll them
>>737665102>It’s honestly overratedYou are wrong. It is dishonestly overrated.
>>737699037>I'd be fine with female custodesKill yourself, faggot
>>737699116You're supposed to make your own stories with your own dudes
>>737698412can't believe eelman got me
>>737699481Cry harder
>>737682497>2009Hmm yeah that was a few years prior to gaymurgayte so yeah probably right. Defenders of Ultramar sucked tho, but not because of the two black scouts. Just wasn't a very good run.
>>737689037Custodes got bodied by alpha legion long before they had women.
>>737696327this
>>737699037saddest part is custodes players don't mind that much because they got some minis out of it. you simply don't use the female head.
>>737700272I'm just glad Kill Teams exist so there's a chance specific factions can get distinct minis. Problem is Space Marines minis are supposed to be usable with ALL Space Marine chapters so they have to be as generic as possible where just changing the paint job is enough.
>>737699116Right, it's not like they couldn't publish a "what if" scenario where those things happen and then decanonize it later.
Do people really care about 40k lore?
>>737700501They don't want alternate anything. Horus Heresy being its own period was already too much for GW.
>>737700529>40k lore I care aboutCool shit>40k lore I don't care aboutLame shitIt's that simple.
>>737700529>Not caring about the loreTruly souless
>>737700603Based.>>737700625Tell me about the Votann then.
>>737700529I did, then they started making stupid changes like claiming Ollanius Pius was a custodes or that the Emperor killed Horus with a dumbass illusion instead of vaporizing him with his full psychic power. Now I really don't give a toss.
>>737700710Votann have interesting lore, but the last thing 40k needed was more dudes in power armor.
>>737700792>Emperor killed Horus with a dumbass illusion instead of vaporizing him with his full psychic powerWait, what?
>>737665330>Why would you hate warhammer entirelyIt's structured on top of a quirky beer and pretzel game and all of its video games are exponentially worse bootlegs of other games, and it's fanbase is awfully adjacent to the kind of nerd that collects funko pops. Like anyone that knows even a single piece of warhammer lore is basically someone I will not communicate with, it's that much of an indicator for someone being an absolute NPC consumer retard.
>>737700842What's their thing though? Are they just dudes in power armor?
>>737665102Looked into it as an outsider, tried to get into it. But a few things.1. I hate the randomness of dice based games.2. Their miniatures are too small. Need a fucking magnifying glass to see the details. And their faces/lips are ugly as hell and people paint them with these overdefined shadows.3. Story is basically Space Romans which is utterly boring. I kept researching if they had any cool outsider factions like the Celts or Germanics who pushed back against the Romans but nothing like it.4. I hear GW is lame when it comes to overcharging and overcontrolling their franchise.5. Now apparently they are going woke too.
>>737700851Yeah, apparently the new lore is that Horus WAS able to defeat the Emperor at his strongest, and as he lay dying, the Emperor made an illusion of Garviel Loken to dupe Horus into dismissing his chaos powers long enough for the Emperor to stab him with an athame blade.
>>737700851Their fight did trancent reality and fought more metaphorically but ultimately horus's power was infinite thanks to the four while Big E's was finite so the Emperor tricked horus to give up his power by giving away an aspect of him to die as a decoy and using an illusion to fool Horus that he was Loken.
>>737693923>nothing about this was retconned. GW work is completely self-referentialEpharal Stern used to be a dreadnought
>>737701230>>737701236That's beyond gay
>>737701230he wasn't at his strongest, he had to give up accumulated power and some of his personality otherwise he would've turned into a chaos god
>>737700529Most of the stories are so disconnected from each other and the places and stories so plentiful that getting hung up on things in certain stories and letting that ruin it for you is just pure autism. Like I don't particuarly like the perpetuals or the horus heresy. It doesn't stop me from enjoying kino like the night lords trilogy or Asassinorum kingmaker where that stuff doesn't come up at all. Even things like the primaris is like, sure, that was stupid or derivative, but you can literally just forget it's a thing most of the time, especially since most important characters have gotten the upgrades anyway and there have been plenty of concessions in the stories showing that veteran og marines still beat the shit out of fresh primaris, so it's like, okay, be a pissy little faggot about it then, but it's your choice. Most of the corners you carve out in the setting of stuff you like s likely to still be intact and awesome, even if getting nicked by these more stupid lore bits, but really just don't be so autistic about it and let it ruin your fun, you can still care about the lore without it being ruined.
>>737701230>>737701236>mfw speed of darkness line
>>737696681For me it's the Trigan Empire, Lone Wolf and Blake's 7. Oh and I, Claudius if that counts.
>>737701328And that is we disregard all setting lore that isn't directly related to explaining why Your Dudes and My Dudes are fighting.
>>737701347I think a lot of people just don't get HH stuff is distinct from actual 40k material. They think you have to read Horus Heresy because they're prequels.
>Hate GW with a passion>Love Warhammer40k with a passionTo live is to suffer.
What a fucking downgrade.
>>737701365spell it out, I'm at the edge of my seat I need to know
>>737701539The original you can tell was hand drawn the second is computer assisted with all that entails. It shows in the worst ways possible.
>>737701539it doesn't help there's some really good fan art out there. for example, pic related depicts the same scene. official has these weird uncanny cg model quality but it is actually drawn.
>>737701539There are like a hundred depictions of this, several official, why do you think one makes the other invalid?
>>737700792>like claiming Ollanius Pius was a custodesFrom the very first time Ollanius Pius was mentioned, it was added that the whole thing is a legend and everyone has their own spin on who the figure was and whether there was one at all. Aboard Horus' Battle Barge from 30 years ago depicted a Terminator, for example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJD7bJOuoD4
I still desire a new Eldar game.
>>737701996This is mostly what all the gripes about modern lore amount to. Everything used to be legend and myth that somewhat hinted at what your dudes would be like but you could ultimately throw it in the trash and do whatever. Now GW has set a lot of stuff in stone that never should have been.
>>737701230>>737701236>>737701328>remember the cool old story? well, we made it lame and gay nowGood fucking job GW. Might add some *teleports behind you* in the next retcon.
>>737702095>press X to be a pompous prick
>>737702146I mean, you can still throw the whole thing into the trash if you want to. I certainly ignore many parts of the HH and other pieces of lore.
>>737702247It's a touch harder when Guilliman himself is sitting on the table or when Johnson is intruding on your vidrogame campaign.
>>737701430>>737701539>unironically reading 60+books (lmao) written out in prose about the daily life of the mythic characters of the distant past meant to serve as backdrop to the modern setting, beings who are described as being so perfect and amazing that even the demigod supersoldiers of today are just a fraction of what they are, and they were led by the most charismatic person who ever lived who could make all of them bend the knee and his offensive tactics were so sublime that he could conquer any planet>people read this and unironically think it's going to live up to the mythSucks to be you guys. I'll keep my primarchs untainted and legendary and my emperor an unknowable figure on his throne like the codex with his son's account as parables or details lost to time or explained by differing accounts so that can paint over any inconsistensies I saw when I was a wee lad, thank you very much.
>>737702095I want X-com tier unit customization and environmental destructibility but with Deathwatch.
>>737688079>FantasyI'm surprised Fantasy Roleplay hasn't gotten an adaptation the way that the 40k RPGs are. You'd think it'd be an easy sell.
>>737702576Fingers crossed, funnily enough, wfrp is more popular than the 40k rpgs, which is in stark contrast to the wargames.
>>737702328Still malding and seething that two loyalist Primarchs have returned while 6 are back for Chaos and this fucker says nothing.
>>737702576Because both Warhammers have really been getting shafted in the RPG department for some reason. Until Rogue Trader, at least. WFRP is also amusingly a poor fit for a typical CRPG if you want to go down that route. Combat is brutal and quick, casting spells is risky as fuck to the caster, and most careers aka classes are intentionally shit. You don't know what hell is until your grave robber, rat catcher and charcoal burner have to go survive another day.
>>737702764Easier to have Chaos primarchs to return than loyalists cause the chaos ones actually have individual tabletop armies with unique sculpts.But thanks to that mindset, Russ will probably show up again down the line when they wanna have the Thousand Sons bullied since Space Wolves are the next big unique army after Dork Angels
>>737702543Contemporary setting's emp is still like that and handled well, shrouded in mystery, speaking with several voices at once in fractured sentences which reflects his duplicity, does a miracle from time to time to turn the tide of battle, it's good. It's the prequel shit that should never have been written where it gets bad. Last church is okay, but even there he's a bit too knowable and comes off as just a fedoralord.
>>737681637>>737682497>>737676728>Future where the most physically fit peak genetic men are recruited to become super soldiers>chuds mad blacks are chosen even though all of the current day peak males are also blackshit cracks me up
>>737665102overrated sure but it's cool as fuck, what real reason is there to hate it? cause it's popular? Is water overrated? hamburgers too? I never understood this argument of calling things "overrated" like it's not doing anything but making yourself out as the contrarian retard who wants attention.
Maybe some major interactions between xeno factions would improve this stale mess. Instead of constantly going with ImpsChaosImpsChaos
>>737702902>the man who hated religion and superstition is a fedoralord
>>737702848Rat Catcher's like top-tier, isn't it?>Equipment is basic but effective>Have a number of skills well-adapted to creeping around in the dark, looking for gribblies to fight>Get a small but ferocious dog that can probably outfight half your party membersI think Dung Collector is also a solid starter because you get immunity to Fear and downgrade Terror.
>>737702936It's not really about that but rather geneseed compatibility. You want stronger candidates to actually survive the procedure because a lot has to be without anesthesia. Most would-be SMs die on the operating table.
>>737702764???Chaos has always had Chaos Primarchs. They were mostly insane villains who personified the vices of their Gods and had almost nothing about their actual fall or their background or personality explained.
>>737702848In wfrp 4e most careers are at least decently competent. They also toned down some of the lethality(tho it's still lethal) and wizards are a lot better, with miscasts rarer and generally not quite as catastrophic.
>>737702848>RatcatcherSMALL BUT VICIOUS DOGMY FUARKING HERO
>>737680667basedjust got some thousand sons secondhand i'm stoked to put them together
>>737703023That dog will be the MVP of your party unless you have a dedicated martial career. Or, rather, if you rolled for one provided you're playing the OG way.
>>737702936nigs suck at war
>/v/ complaining about blacks in British media Just be glad it's black people and not jeets.
>>737703110genuinely don't know how to feel about 4e. to me wfrp was always an uphill battle and making it friendlier just dampens the experience. dooming is a cool as fuck mechanic, though.
>>737703180>"Saar, do not redeem the chaos powers. The Brown Angels will fight the Nurgle."
>>737702902>Last church is okay,???The "debate" is incredibly stupid on both sides.
>>737702848Well, what with Dark Heresy getting a much-anticipated entry, maybe GW ought to take a serious look at it. I think there's a market for trying to do your best with an expansive, colorful cast of losers who probably won't make it to the end.
>>737703180>not jeetsWe have Tau for all our SAAAR needs
>>737703329>But battle brother Hajeesh, the Brown Angels are servants of nurgle
>>737702997when you hear of it in a legend or a sermon or something then you can fill in the details yourself and imagine that he probably had good reasons for it, he probably had a balanced perspective on it, that there were details to it that are now lost to time, then you read a on the ground story of him yapping out dialogue and it's like oh, he really just is a reddit atheist. >>737703351I think the premise was so good that I forgave some of the actual debate. I honestly can't remember much of the details though, and ultimately it just does too much damage to the emperor's divine image to be seen as a good story within the universe.
>>737703180See if you gave some offshot of the Praetorian Guard that was just the East Indian Company in space, I'd be fine with a cultural pajeet army. The reason it's annoying is because GW takes blacks and browns and shove them into cultural homogenous armies. I don't care if Cadians or Imperial Fists have a few Blacks. It's more so when stuff like the Space Wolves have negroe and chinamen Terminators.
>>737703443>SAAR ARE YOU BEING OVERSMART? DO NOT REDEEM THE NURGLE POWERS
>>737701523Angles of Death are unironically my favorite piece of media they made in recent years.If they animated the mouths a bit better it would be perfect.
>>737701860>official has these weird uncanny cg model quality but it is actually drawnWait really? It totally looks like CG+filters+shop.
>>737665330There are two groups that hate warhammer>Former players that got fed up with the shitshow that GW pulls up>Women who thought they oculd fix a warhammer player / tolerate it because they had lots of disposable income.First group sinks into their own more specialized niches and the second group is not posting on this yakubian pantomime forum.
>>737703065>Chaos has always had Chaos PrimarchsSome of them even had miniatures for old Epic.
>>737703278I mean it's still fairly dangerous, but yeah not nearly as grim or perilous as 2e. Still, mechanically, it is an amazing system with really fun combat, altho quite a bit of bookeeping, lol
>>737703607Yeah, they really could just use the Your Dudes excuse, or rather feature, to just make an African, SEA or whoeverthefuck regiment
>>737701860Sanguinius was an absolute BEAST.
Trench crusade mogs 40gay
>>737704040They already have African themed Space Marine Chapters like the Celestial Lions who were already fairly popular and part of the "Imperial Fist Successor more interesting than the Imperial Fists" club.
>>737665330It feels quirky in a bad way, like a mishmash of a hundred other settings I would rather be spending my time on instead. Also you can never look at anything related to it and be immersed, you always remember it's part of a product franchise.
>>737704102>Chuds desperate for something to stick it to GW is the only reason anyone knows what Trench Crusade is>Creator immediately turns on chuds the moment product is an inch off the groundlol. lmao even.
>>737704102300 posts in and a tranny crusade fanboy thought he could speak
>>737704070yeah people forget he was fighting nonstop for months during the siege before ever going to face horus
>>737693830They're a fun bunch. Have a buddy who would play a lot of matches with them against my Khador platoon.
>>737667812>negro man breaking and entering to loot a houseHow did they get away with this?
>>737704102Are they actually making armies now, or is it more of a Turnip28 situation where you just put whatever you've got on the table (plus a bit of green stuff to make them extra gribbly) and use pre-written stats for it?
Chuds went crawling back to wokehammer because GW are too chicken shit go callout the chudsTrench crusade are hobbyist ideal did it and successfully gatekept it
>>737704616>GW are too chicken shit go callout the chudsBut they did and it made the chuds throw a massive shitfit.
>>737704716You will not be missed is a minor note they need to straight up call out this attitude which they won’t because they are scared
>nobody wants the chud audiencet-This is white genocide!
You will not be missed was followed by the black Templar update, Krieg in plastic, and blood axe kommandos Female custodes flopped and rumor has it they will be releasing MK 7 marines in a scourging spin off game
>want to play rogue trader again>dont want to play the 1st 2 chapters because they're a slog>dont want to do the random warp encounters everytime i travel that take 15 minutes per fight and only give 100xpsigh
>>737703708It's so good, the music really sets the atmosphere as well. All of it is just *chefs kiss*. It's just a shame it's hidden behind a Warhammer+ subscription for most people (I downloaded the episodes off a Youtube rip) the Space battle against the Tyranids is possibly one of my favourite parts, that and the Angel losing himself to the Black rage against the Patriarch.
have they made Astartes 2 yet or is it just a preview trailer
>>737704320Didn't he 1v1 a Warlord Titan as well?
>>737702152They already have them playing cards against each other
>>737705403Still no release, and no further release date besides "sometime in 2026".
>>737705403Just the Amazon "You shall know no fear" animation.
>>737705403Didn't the Astartes guy contract run out?
>>737705840Nohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbgYaeerXhg
Starting playing 3.5e 40K at the advice of grogs and honestly it has saved my enjoyment of the hobby. Don't proceed to 11th, return. Not shrimplified. Just fun. Only downside is mountains of erratas and FAQs and interviews you need to read to get to enjoy the game properly since the bongs couldn't write it clearly in the first place.
>>737707279I thought it was 4e that 'nid players liked, what with cheap-ass carnifexes.
>>7377074023.5e is 4e with all the 4th codices up to the end of 2005, where shit started changing. According to the grogs. That means 4e SM, Tyranids, Black Templars, and Tau Empire codices are kosher, along with the 4e rulebook (which was a compilation of clarifications to 3e mainly). And the others use their 3e codex, since their 4e one fucked their shit up (CSM players and Eldar most affected).Or so I'm told. Either way, I am having fun playing it, so definitely consider pirating a copy of the old shit and playing.
>>737707279The SOVL era.
>>73770727911th is looking absolutely grim to play and 10th has been ass.Honestly hope that new Starcraft game picks up at my local place, seems way more interesting right now.
>>737667812>it's fake fashy for fat nu-malesif that were true, the fat nu-males and troon brigades wouldn't be moving heaven and earth trying to pozz the setting. They're succeeding, don't get me wrong, 40k is already nearing a shell of what it once was, but if it was soo acceptable to the soimales, they wouldn't be trying to poison it.
>>737708416Unless you specifically want to start an entirely new collection of minis, literally just return like I said. You don't even need to rebase anything. If you play something like nucrons just homebrew profiles for the new stuff and handshake with your opponent that the point costs seem fair.
>>737708552That picture's really fucking funny when the Imperium has always, since the beginning of the setting, been describee as the most cruel and bloody regime imagineable.Imperium apologists genuinely have half a brain.
>>737688079Preach40k is redditor shit
>>737708690Still better than being a fleshlight for daemons for all eternity.
>>737705098>Female custodes floppedthey didn't allow it to flop, they pulled back supply, they want to make femstodes desirable by stealth, restrict supply, so the goyim who still want to be cuckstodes will pay out the arse to resellers and scalpers and then when the price of cuckstodes models on the second-hand market reaches a peak, they release more femstodes horseshit to appease the goyim.>>737704616Trench crusade are run by retards who let a literal cabal of redditor trannies run their CM who purged all the refugees from GW. Trench crusade are also con artists who are trying to monetise their fans works, Arch covered it in a video awhile back. Trench is ded and its supremely retarded edgelord creators with no vision or clue killed it.
>>737708552not really, what you're seeing is the tendency for already progressive settings to become unbearably woke for no reason
>>737708690>redd*tor only read the first page of a 40k book then came here to comment.Fuck off retard.
>>737709050possibly, "any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing" in action.
>>737708945I feel like you're ascribing too much meticulous planning to GW over an underselling model series.
Is Space Marine 2 actually good?
>>737708945>ArchAh, well thanks for letting me know you're a retard who is incapable of thinking for yourself.
>>737708074As a newfag that started with 4th edtion, it was the best edition.
Everything went to shit with 5th edition and the Necrons being retconned into retarded grumpy we wuz space egyptians
>>737709757Well it was 3rd edition but mostly cleaned up so that tracks. Too early for the retardation to kick in, the whole company was in a good state then. That was the era of 6th edition Warhammer Fantasy as well (the best edition), Warmaster, BFG, and MESBG.A high water mark for sure.
>>737709458GW are a billion dollar company. You are a fool to think they wont try something crazy to double down without risking anything.They already weren't gonna make much money, why wouldn't they try this? theres already a pile of reports from secondary retailers that state that GW openly stripped orders for cuckstodes models from them without warning. Figure it out genius.>>737709550Arch was right about everything, and i would take his word over yours or any fag ITT by default. Not that anything he's said convinced me of anything that is, i'm not a sheep like you.>>737709961Newcrons were a wild improvement over the previous idea, which was just plain dumb, and overlapped with rogue mechanicus adepts+Iron Men.
>>737709961You lost retard, give up.
>>737709536It's pretty fun, you might like it.
>>737665102>It’s honestly overratedA little, but it's still pretty cool.
>>737665102>It’s honestly overratedCompared to what exactly?
>>737665330Because Space Marines and the Imperium are the shittiest parts of the setting but account for like 95% of the content.
>>737708690>But teh imperium iz ebil!The Imperium has to be the biggest retard filter ever created, both from a narrative and business perspective. They're the good guys, cope and seethe.
>>737712062>Because Space Marines and the Imperium are the shittiest partsWhy would you even be a fan of 40k if you don't like the Imperium? They're literally the protagonists.
>>737712215NTA, but I like the Imperium and SM but still think they are an oversized component of the setting as time went on. It used to be more balanced but now it's shit like having more datasheets for SM than several other armies combined and 50% more than the next largest is too much. Made worse by a lot of that shit not looking cool.
>>737665102>such a protected franchiseEven though Warhammer 40k has been subverted and retconned and fucked with too, the fuckery is a lot less and more tolerable (so far) than what's been done to every other franchise.I don't know if its the case for every Warhammer fan, but I don't like it because its particularly very good, but because its the last one that hasn't been completely self-sabotaged by its rights-holders despite their own best efforts.
>>737708690I'm not getting digested by Terminids, enslaved tortured by Druukhari, Zapped by Aeldari, ripped to shreds by Orks, or enslaved and tortured by Daemons, because you want to pretend the ultimate evil is destroying all of those things before it can spread.
>>737665330I dont hate the ip itself but the fanbase was always obnoxiously autistic. I filed it away in my head alongside annoying nerds who had serious debates over fantasy capeshit fights. The aesthetic also destroyed western fantasy and scifi design for an entire generation, especially in the game industry.
>>737689037GW is already trying to walk femstodes back, that new box set they released featuring them flopped so badly they're not even sending out more, iirc they've taken them down off their site.
>>737710304now necrons just massively overlap with normal mechanicus and they have to be retarded and sleepy all the time to balance the techno magic bullshit
>>737713224Are they really? Or are they just burying it and moving on but not really walking it back for real?
>>737702936you are neither white nor black Chang
>>737665330I just think that it’s cringe. It’s over the top, edgy, ugly visually, makes no sense. It’s like Star Wars in the sense that it’s space fantasy masquerading as science fiction. And I think that space fantasy is a retarded genre on par with steam punk or magic alongside technology. Uncreative fusion for the sake of trying to be different.
>>737666339I look at the current state of Warhammer as like a teenager who thinks all the shit he used to do is super cringeworthy but by the time he gets into his 20s he realizes it’s actually cool as shit and he was just being a fag. Only GW has been doing that for over a decade and is showing no sign of stopping.
>>737703180even with all that white guilt they would never lolo
>>737693990>9 years olduoh tot
>>737712513I haven't tuned into the tabletop since 10e was complete fucking dogshit. Did they actually add army books for the big SM chapters instead of just using the whole detachment rules that were specifically fucking there to allow for minor tweaks to armies to reflect individual chapter doctrines instead of trying to make retarded snowflake mechanics like what they ended up doing with World Eaters and Thousand Sons?
>>737695641>how odd youre not completing the script I laid out for you in my head hrmmm
>>737705217To serve is to suffer. But that suffering builds character, Lord Captain.
>>737715776Yes. First they fucked up CSM by spinning each monogod off and now they are doing that for non-god CSM and loyalists too.
Personally black ultramarines really doesn't bother me. It's the female custodes that felt like a very woke motivated retcon.
>>737716125i think i'll wait for the dlc
>>737713678>Or are they just burying it and moving onThis is how GW retcons always work
>>737716134>Yes.I guess I should have seen it coming as soon as I caught wind of them doing that to the monogods, yeah.When given the choice between adding stupid garbage that will sell books and maintaining cohesive design elements (not saying 10e is good, but detachment rules in principle are good; I like leaving that room there to tweak armies to reflect differences in individual chapter training and culture without reinventing the fucking army book), gee dubs will pick the stupid get rich quick option every time.
>>737716435Just play the old (good) editions and ignore new lore and mechanics you don't like. Fantasy players still play 6e. Warmaster has Warmaster Revolution. We can do it too. You just gonna wait until they End Times the setting to do it? Might as well switch now.
>>737688079>fagtasy autist has to constantly beg for attention in 40k threads because no one wants to play with him anymorelmao, enjoy eating shitmar trash for the rest of your sad life
>>737716552These days I'm more of a Xenos Rampant guy, myself. Alternating activations is just plain more enjoyable to play with and against than igougo
>>737716845trvth nvke
>>737716845Be nice, their game is dead after all.
>>737716845The most depressing thing about AoS is that it's now a better setting than modern 40k
>>737716979At least it isn't OPR I guess. I only like AA for skirmish games. Alternating phases or igougo (ideally with command friction) is the best for army games.
>>737698983>they were meant to become allies with the NecronsThe fuck?
>>737717556In one of the Ynnari books it's revealed that the Eldar and the Necrons had signed a peace treaty during the War In Heaven in order to fight armies of Slaaneshi Daemons.
>>737717556When the mon'keigh says something so barbaric you gotta hit them with the grand alliance with your 2nd worst enemy after she-who-thirsts.
>>737717556Gotta shake the setting. It was a coin toss between necrons and tyranids.
>>737718736An Eldar/Tyranid alliance would only happen one way and /aco/ covered it a while ago.
I dunno shit about Warhammer but Space Marine 2 has become of my favorite games of all time. love the gameplay and the visuals. game is fun and cool af.
>>737719667the gameplay is terrible and youre stunted
>>737665330>humanity is retarded>demons are either equally as retarded or are sandbagging to farm infinite garmanbozia >every other faction is in limbo because theyre not as popular so they can never move the plot forward meaningfullyi tried getting into it and i was severely disappointed, ill just stick to the tide games
>>737717556The forbidden schizo alliance
>>737718789Yeah it's not really possible now considering that the nids finally ate that one species that they were keeping around for "diplomatic" relations.
Did people still hate the thought of Loyalists in the traitor legions?
>Collected WHFB & 40k for 26 years>Lived long enough to see it grow and die before my eyesI miss it every day bros
>>737720452Going from DoW to 'proper' 40k is so utterly disappointing it's beyond words.It defies belief that even the plot if DoW3 has more interesting ideas and execution than the fucking Fall of Cadia.
>>737721650People can cringe at me if they want but I like the idea of Alpha Legion being Loyalist.
>>737720452>>73772268040k is one of the handful of settings where secondaries are more respectable than primaries
>>737722841I still do enjoy the models (for the most part) but anyone claiming you need an army for your opinion to matter is coping. The actual tabletop game sucks, the 'narratives' suck, most the novels suck, and GW themselves are one of the most anhorrently awful companies to ever pollute existence. 40k succeeds IN SPITE of them.
anyone who actually is a fan of 40k is one of two things1. an unironic GW paypiggy, who loves being shit on because its an IP they like and its all anyone else plays2. nu-40k fans who got into the IP diring and after 2017just move on from 40k, play older editions if you must continue having to play it10th ed has so many problems, and GW isnt fixing basically any of those issues and the playerbase will accept itthey're fixing how the game visually represents itself, as greytide on boards with unpainted mdf L shaped ruins looks fucking awful, not actually fixing the game, because that requires admitting a mistake
>>737701028The thing is that they’re space dwarves in space, and they have ancient super computers telling them what to do.
>>737722841>one of the handful of settings where secondaries are more respectable than primariesOthers being...? What exactly?
>>737718494>fight Slaanesh demons in the War in Heaven>Slaanesh hadn’t exist yet How the fuck do you square that circle?
>>737724030Slaanesh, like female custodes, has always existed. The Chaos Gods are "Born" from certain events but once born they always existed because the Warp has no time.
>>737720452You're supposed to have your little sector of space you make headcannon stuff happen in. You're not supposed to expect or want the setting as an entirety move anywhere. That's how you get Primarchs returning.
>>737723780>GW isnt fixing basically any of those issuesWhat is your favourite edition, what was your army in that edition, and what would GW need to do to fix it?
>>7377243155thCSMit's simple, just adopt the current 30k ruleset for 40k. it has lots of flavour, old rules that work such as vehicle armour and blast templates, statlines are neutered so you don't get 40 shots from a basic unit, good leadership mechanics with status effects, listbuilding is freeform but restrictive at the same time, with each faction specializing towards certain builds, and the challenge minigame is fluffy as hell and a ton of fun to play
>>737720452You're looking at it from the wrong lens, man. 40K is more about smaller, self contained stories. I always recommend reading up on the Badab War because that's what got me into the setting, even if now that I know more about the setting I kind of think it's lame they shoe-horned Chaos in at the last little stretch instead of just making it about Imperial in-fighting where all sides involved are technically right. But seriously, you can literally just read up on anyone/anything and become engrossed in it. The setting isn't supposed to "move" anywhere, it's about the characters and the factions themselves, as characters. Everyone has something going on and a way to relate. I used to think the World Eaters were gay and just the "we need berserker bad guys for the setting", essentially the creature to come in and kill red shirts so the audience knew shit was real. Then I read (I don't remember where from) about that one World Eater dying, completely crippled and unable to move, and in excruciating pain from his butcher nails in his head. He realized right there how fucked his chapter was, how futile and wrong everyone was to follow Angron, yet there was no way back. It is tragic, in a lot of way I see it as a narrative on addiction. Some people find that incredibly relatable. I wasn't expecting to find that in the fucking World Eaters of all people in this setting.
>>737724146Gonna be honest chief, that’s fucking stupid “Palpatine survived” tier of retconning.
I really don't understand the people saying xenos should get more attention
>>737724192I'm not even sure where people want the setting to move to. Like I have yet to dive into the Fehervari stuff and I'm looking forward to getting into it, even fi I know it won't have universe-shattering events. Same with Eisenhorn books I haven't gotten to. The fun is in following some local sector and see it change and learn of the characters there and see certain subfactions and their own particularities highlighted in their own little subsector conflicts that get resolved. Same with the owlcat inquisitor game, I'm not expecting that to change things much. Maybe you get this sickness from getting into HH and making the return of the primarchs your main hobby horse.
>>737724467>5th>CSMIsn't even a soulful 3e CSM player. You're like a frog in a well. Also that shit was the wrong answer. The actual answer is to completely Smegmar-ify 12th (too late for 11th now) in order to ruin it completely, then kill 30k/let it lapse for updates and do a "The Old World" release for 40K set in the early 700s of M41 which does what you said.Worked once. Probably will work again.
>>737724606That's not a retcon. Chaos and the Warp has always had a fucked up relationship with Time. There was just never lore about Daemons fucking with stuff during the War in Heaven. Nor should there have been
>>7377243154th edition, the one I started with. All armies had lots of customization and you could make any army do just about anything depending on the upgrades you chose to pay for. Full armored cavalry IG with base 4+ saves, special weapons teams as troop choices, and bonuses for mounting/dismounting transports. All infiltrating Space Marines w. Counterattack special rule and close combat weapons. It wasn’t totally balanced, Eldar were and seem to be always high tier bullshit, but it was fun and the absolute power creep we have now wasn’t a thing yet.
It has its moments
>>737724772hey, I do have a witchhunters army for 3rdand unfortunately I don't think theres anything gw could do to make its playerbase stop buying and playing, they could make the shittest edition ever with 12th, but because the majority of the playerbase are paypiggies, they'll continue to play itthat's the sad reality we live in, 40k will never improve because the fanbase accepts slop and gw knows it, why put the effort in? you'll get sales regardless
>>737720452Humanity is retarded though. Our entire global economy is a downie ouroboros sucking its own dick and eating its own shit and piss while it daydreams about being a real economy. We gaslight ourselves as hard as we possibly can about it not being true because to comprehend how retarded we actually are, how even more retarded we've become in only two-hundred years on average, as well as why would be nothing short of real cosmic horror. Warhammer 40k is good fiction I think, as a 'what if' scenario of a MacGuffin like the god emperor shepherding us diabolical glurons at gunpoint into space finally and what that would look like in the future. We are not anywhere even close to being able to get there as we are. It would realistically require such a MacGuffin and it just isn't good science fiction without recognizing that. Which I think is how in the future we might become more comfortable with that truth and eventually try to fix it. Probably with genetic engineering, to sidestep the other more ugly G word.
>>737724606when are the genesmiths of the imperial palace sending us brothers of silence down the pipeline? or are they literally implying that only women are soulless?
>>737724965Around the same time GW remembers pariahs were a thing and null humans may have been something Necrons created to deal with the Warp.
>>737724929You think less of 40K players than fantasy players? Smegmar was so shit all those guys quit in droves and they got TOW brought back which now sells better (allegedly).
>>737665330It was a minor franchise in the 90s, but it exploded in popularity since the mid-10s because it’s the last bastion of nerd pop-culture that hasn’t been completely perverted by gay communist libtards (despite GW trying their worst).
>>737725126smegma killed off the entire setting and replaced it, that's entirely different than just a ruleset changeand 40k already had its ruleset change in 8th
>>737725126>TOW brought back which now sells better (allegedly).It doesn't. This has always been a massive cope by chuds.
>>737722387>WHFB7th and 8th edition were bloated, unfun messes and GW was too retarded to fix the game. Killing it was the right call.
>>737665330I don't hate it, I just can't trust it (or those who like it undiscerningly) because it's gone from a fairly open creative setting to an oppressively-managed "brand", where the loudest voice is a reddit "brand ambassador" farming karma with a post that starts off "Y'all...">Y'all can we all agree that female custodes is PEAK
>>737725304If you hadn't said that last bit "for chuds", your post would be a lot more compelling.
>>737725364I'm sorry you identify with one of the most pathetic sections of the internet. I hope you get better.
>>737725340Ironically all the increased attention 40k has gotten over the years has been the worst thing that could’ve happened to it. When normies start to become more aware of a formally niche IP or game, the fags and other undesirables sneak in as well to make things lame and gay on purpose.
>>737725786the manchild redditor is worse than the fag
>>737725786The 8th edition refresh took way too much inspiration from Star Wars right before TLJ marked the watershed of that cultural moment - and saw the "real fans" of most IPs set against the corporate HR-mindset ownership.
>>737726159What was fucked up was this near universal mindset by the corpo types to appeal to demographics that weren’t the core audience they already had, but other totally uninterested ones. Disney took primarily young adult to boy targeted brands in Star Wars and Marvel and decided these needed to focus almost exclusively on women and girls. They already had that demographic locked in with the Disney princesses, they didn’t need to do that. Now both IPs are damaged heavily and both are worth far less than they were at their height of popularity.
>>737724882Cerberus?
>>737725636I'm not trans tho.
>>737716110Yes, how odd. You're usually so predictable.
>>73770869040k is about choosing between the lesser of two evils.As a regular human the ONLY faction besides the Imperium that could possibly be considered an improvement is the Tau and only because they won't immediately butcher or ritualistically torture you, only sterilize you and make you build cities for Tau colonists.
>>737667812Man, I can't really tell the difference between the Dark Mechanicum tech priests and lootas these days.
>>737730104>We wuz makin' daemon engines 'n shiet
>>737665330Trannies get bored playing as Slaanesh all the time
>>737729634>Won't immediately butcher youSome of that 5th phase expansion Tau got real into the xenophobia and were slaughtering humans en mass on some planets as revenge for previous atrocities. The Tau are becoming more grim dark as GW keeps pushing the setting forward.
>>737712062Total Warhammer Fantasy awaits you
>>737667812The most hilarious part of this is that is actually a woman
>>737667812>Gay Niggers from Outer Space
>>737730264I can't take the tau seriously because they went from cavemen to a space faring civilization in 3k years then just fucking stagnated.You'd think they'd have hundreds of new weapons to fight with each time any other faction encounters them, but no.
>>737730264Tau are a footnote NPC rate just like Eldar. GW trying to make them 'dark' to be more appealing won't change that.
>>737665330As someone who used to like Warhammer, I straight up hate it now because of what the fanbase has let it become. Before someone throws a pissy fit about how I'm letting my enjoyment of something be tinted by others, there is nothing to enjoy anymore, and it is explicitly the fanbase's fault. The worst, most horrid and mediocre shit games keep releasing and get glazed harder than Marin in tribute threads after Sono Bisque Doll released. Warhammer fans will hold hands and just excuse the fuck out of horrible decisions and predatory practices. On extremely rare occasions, they'll complain, and then shortly after, apologize and fall back in line.Warhammer games, both vidya and on the table, have become extremely low quality. And it's the fanbase's fault. I have nothing to look forward to, and have no interest any longer. My sourness over how this happened has made me hate it as a whole.
>>737705913>Log in to confirm that you're not a botWhat the fuck.
40k just means spess mehreens or inquisition 99% of the time which gets old after a while Rogue Trader and Mechanicus I liked for showing how fun the rest of the imperium is
>>737731614Tau technology is based on human technology. It has a ceiling. They traded their FTL and plasma weapon technology from the Demiurge, which are Squats, which are abhumans, which use old human technology. Tau can't do anything for themselves.
>>737724019I have to assume there's at least one other setting out there
I wonder how bad the shitshow will be if Cawl managed to develop an easily manufactured and maintained lasrifle that has same range as a Tau plasma rifle.
>>737736186Tau tech is based on Kroot tech. The Kroot were a high tech space fairing civilization until the Tau met the and traded for their skip drives and plasma weapons. Later they did pick up Kindred fusion weapons which they tend to not use outside of battlesuits. Once Tau took the Kroot's place they were free to return to monkey (or bird I guess) and become tribal like they always wanted. They also have traded with other peak civilizations to enhance their tech. But their armor penetration tech is nothing humanity has ever fielded. At least not since the dark age of technology.
>>737695480Salamanders aren't fucking niggers you retarded faggot
>>737665102It’s a classic because most uncs are/were fa/tg/uys
>>737730264Tau just don't have that dawg.
>>737698067Yeah, Skaven kind of exemplify this. They can oscillate between terrifying skulking spooky boys and retarded saturday morning cartoon villains depending entirely on writer's presentation and both hold true in the context of the settingI like Fantasy a lot to be honest
