>>737681124
The franchise turned to shit the moment they made the 2nd game. You're losing nothing but an hour of download time and drive space.

>>737681124
Asscreed story ended when desmond died, rest are historical playground sim

>>737681124
Templars want to make sure everything is going well through absolute control, fascism

Assassins want freedom for all and the right for man to make his own way mistaken or not, with no government control basically

Both are kinda right in a sense

>>737681124
Templars = communists
Assassins = libertarians
Forget about playing beyond syndicate, the templar vs assassin morals debate gets thrown out the window.

>>737681124
This entire franchise is literally just the Fr*nch seething at Angloids.

>>737681124
Depends on if you believe the aliens are good or bad for humanity
The Templars assert the aliens had the right idea and could guide humanity with enlightened despotism
The Assassins represent humanity's desire to forge its own destiny good or bad -- its direct intervention saved the earth from something the templars were powerless to stop

There has been a long-running thread that the writers think they could team up and compromise on some things

>>737681124
>no fucking idea what the templars actually want
pieces of eden so they can subdue everyone. first game - mind control satellite
ezio games - the pope has a mind control staff
then you learn all the pieces of eden were created by a super race used to subdue humans to do their bidding but they were wiped out by solar flares. another one comes along that will wipe out earth in modern times but desmond sacrifices himself to stop it. the modern plot and templar shit stopped mattering after that and from then on its just more and more retcons as to who founded the assassins

le nothing is le real

>>737681124
It is pretty bad, if you did the schizo puzzles in 2/2:B you should have pretty good idea what Templars want while Assassins just don't want them to succeed and don't have any greater purpose or plan other than denying Templars the victory. I don't blame you being confused after 4 because past Desmond saga the (modern day) Templar goals shift. In the first games it was to get the appul to place it in orbit and use it's mind control abilities on the planet. BF sets up a new plotline with the ancient woman living in the internet that gets resolved in the comics because it's a "multimedia franchise" so there is a clear shift in the plot as well as worldbuilding since they abandoned the "world is actively going to shit" setup they did in the first games.

Do play Rogue just for the novelty of playing as a Templar this time around.

>>737681124
The real templars were freemason faggots who worshiped a skull around a table, the bush family took up this gimmick for their yale cult

>>737681283
This is your brain on fascism
Hows the fox news sloppa going for ya unc

>>737681124
order vs freedom
in a lot of the games they lean towards the latter but sometimes they don't

>>737681124
I heard he was an android.

>>737681283
>Communist
Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, and Roosevelt were all canonically Templars.

>>737681124
>Templars
>we are on top and control everything
>this will improve humanity

>Assassins
>everyone should be free and stuff
>chaos and killing is part and parcel of living free

>>737681394
>from then on its just more and more retcons as to who founded the assassins
The Assassins (note the capitalization) were founded by Bayek and company in Origins. Before that there were other factions whose interests were similar to the Assassins but weren't actually a unified group, like how Alexios/Kassandra was someone that Darius thought was a bad guy.

>>737681124
Assassins (ḥašašyīn) were mulism addicts send to suicide missions following 1600 years of raids, rape, murder and enslaving of Europeans.
Templars were European noble men who gave up their fortune and title to pursue the safety of Christians when traveling to pray in Jerusalem.
The crusades lasted a few years.

>Templars are the bad guys

And yes, the studio had its fair share of muslins faggots involved in the production, how can you tell?

I'd like this company to disappear now.

The Templars are missing the point entire. The purpose of power and control isn't making a better world, but making a worse world. All humans are equally guilty of the unforgivable sin of existence, and we must all be punished for it. In fact, we exist for the sole purpose of being punished for existing.

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>>737681124
pic related is real world equivalence.
>>737681882
Denounce Talmud.

>>737682391
I also denounce the Koran, these people are truly retarded.

>>737682391
>>737682490
Humanity NEEDS to be punished for existing.

>>737681280
>>737681283
How did that came about? It feels so removed from what little I know about the Templars

I've never played any AC games, but my medieval history taught us that Templars held a large wealth and the King of France owed them money, so he accused the Templars of being homosexuals so he can have the leader executed and order dissolved - to confiscate their assets

>>737682490
Good, you might have some worth saving in you.
>>737682518
STUF kike.

Honestly never thought about it but why are the assassins the good guys, the templars are the ones who want to change the world, is it flawed yes, but it's better than the assasins with barely any plans.

>>737681164
>hour of download time
Good way to out yourself as brown.

>>737681124
They're both the same thing.
The Assassins seem to think peace should be achieved through human collaboration and the Templars think they have to use an ancient artifact to enforce it. The irony is the Assassins justify themselves because any attempt at collaboration to create peace, which is their apparent goal, will become their enemies directly or by proxy.

Assassin's Creed 1 goes into this the best, despite the game being dogshit boring.
The Assassins enemies are a collaborative effort across nationalities and religion for a master that's manipulating the Assassins into making him the sole enforcer instead of a team effort.

The main contradiction is the Assassins kill the many to save the few while claiming that killing a few to save the many is far more immoral and evil.

It's just like the jedi and sith

Templars want ''order''
Assassins want ''freedom''

Templars are like the state, whereas the asses are anti-fascists. Both are a gay. It stems from their adam and eve (inferior humans and slaves) event where they stole the apple from their overlords (the humanoid aylmaos, or superior species) which put that ball into motion.
Ultimately, the templars are humans that want the aylmaos back in control and the assassins want humans to be in control of their own destiny. Their motivations were coherent during AC 1-3, now I doubt it still is as they described the thing.

>>737681708
>He didn't scan the destroyed bunker with the red light to see an assassin logo on a destroyed part of its wall
ngmi

>>737682825
>Templars think they have to use an ancient artifact to enforce it.
This is part of why I liked ac3s templars, there was no magical mind control if I control, it was all about supplanting the head of state with one of their own, scheming and all that shit. Haytham had me agreeing with templar bullshit for a decent portion of the game though I suppose that's mostly due to them making us play as haytham himself

What could the Templars and Assassins even compromise on?

You finished the worst old ac

>>737681283
its always politics with you people jfc

>>737683473
Given that we have at least two instances of Assassin and Templar pairing (the first game and Unity), they could probably agree with each other that the sex is good.

>>737682573
We NEED to turn Earth into the biggest torture chamber ever.

>>737683794
Well yeah they might be alien worshipers but at least they aren't Puritans.

>>737683957
Well yeah but they're not hurling insults at each other like "templars can't last 5 seconds" or "assassins just lay there like dead starfish" or anything like that.

>>737682554
>How did that came about? It feels so removed from what little I know about the Templars
Don't consider it like a super long plan spanning centuries.
One side believe control is top-down and side with those who think so
Other side want freedom bottom-up and side with like-minded individual

"Templar" is only one of their guise
"Assassin" is a grab all word for individual barely linked by a fetish weapon.

>>737685725
True at this point in the lore both the templars and assassins are just a collection of shit going all the way back to Antiquity.
Its like alternative history.

>>737681124
Im amazed you could play 3 and not completely give up on ubisoft. It was so bad I refused to ever look at anything they publish let alone make.
But yeah their goals are nebulous on purpose so modern day ethics cant get mad at them when the ideal changes.
Just make a perfect world.

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>>737683473
>What could the Templars and Assassins even compromise on?
Part of Odyssey was that neither side should win because when it happen shit go wrong.

If the Assassin's destroy all form of government, it's chaos, everyone fighting for their own survival or gains.
If the Templar win, it's facism, the death of individuality, only those at the top telling what the other are allowed to think.

It's also suggested in other games like Black Flag. Yes the pirates were free, but they were also, well, pirate. Thief. Bandit, Amoral killers as seen with Charles Vane who will fight you rather than work with you.

>>737682180
Thanks jewish guy

>>737685970
>Its like alternative history.
...yes, yes, it is. Just a video game. Not an Assassin's sponsored game trying to defend freedom under the guise of entertainment.

It's not a bad idea to go with interlapping virtual worlds, playing up the "Simulation theory" to justify the setting.

>>737683473
Nothing because the Assassins don't want anything, they simply want to terrorise.

The fact that one of their tenants is "Never compromise the Brotherhood" is proof of that.
If they truly wanted peace through collaboration, they wouldn't make one of their core principles to defend the Brotherhood. The other two, Don't kill innocents and Use innocents as essentially human shields are contradictory but they don't encourage an endless war.

The Assassins don't have an end goal where they'll stand down, they don't want to live in peace. They don't want to be normal people that enjoy stability and peace while working an honest life, they want to be killers living a thrilling life.
There's periods in the lore where the Assassins as are in the Templars position and the Templars are in the Assassins, yet they didn't stand down knowing that the Templars was underground, they remained controlling their world from the highest forms of society.

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>>737686040
>Just make a perfect world.
Can't be too complicated.
I mean, we won't reach a point where we just disagree on the method, right?

>>737682391
>anyone on the left
>wanting to make a perfect world
they're keenly aware they're making the world a worse place.

>>737686510
>"Never compromise the Brotherhood."
Sound like cooperation to me, don't work against us and we are friend.

>"Stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent."
Avoid any unnecessary murder and constantly check who is innocent or not

>"Hide in plain sight, be one with the crowd."
It's an excellent way of doing thing. You'll immediately out a tyrant who do not care about killing innocent to get at you.
As for "innocents" who do not care about the tyrant doing that might as well be accomplice.

>There's periods in the lore where the Assassins as are in the Templars position and the Templars are in the Assassins
Now that's the subtlety explaining why neither side must win. A Templars would employ assassin's to kill a competitor, and Assassin's will defend a Templar for personal reason.

>>737681124
it's just muslims good christians bad without any real reasons or justifying actions on either side, simply because the lead director of AC until he got meetoo'd was a muslim

>>737687171
>Assassin's will defend a Templar for personal reason.
But the only instances we've seen any Assassin come close to defending a Templar it's because they'd fallen for each other. That's as personal a reason as it gets.

>>737687301
>until he got meetoo'd was a muslim
He converted out?

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What if we remade the franchise starting from one, except the Assassins are a female only Bene Gesserit cult type thing capable of controlling their genes to ensure they produce only female offspring while the Templars are control freak oligarchic males who secretly simp for Jacques de Molay who is a girl?

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>>737681124
>authoritarian government where eveything is monitored 24/7
>absolute wild west anarchy where warlords come and go on a weekly basis
both suck ass

they clearly define what they are after in the first game and games afterwards you are lying and just want attention

>>737681124
neo-platonists vs heracliteans (anarchists)

>>737687332
Assassin's can be corrupted and become the killer for hire of someone else defending their business.

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>>737681124
>have no fucking idea what the templars actually want
Yes. It's pretty explicitly clear even as early as 1, you just have to read computers and the database. Even if you don't read the documents they beat you over the head what the Templar and Assassin ideologies are.

The Templars want control over humanity so that a select few of their Grand Masters can govern it because they believe the whole of humanity is too corrupt and stupid that the majority is prone to violence, corruption, and easy to control leading to suffering across the entire planet. They believe they are the arbiters of humanity and everyone who disagrees is wrong. That is why they constantly fund religions they know are 100% fake, fund spying programs, and assassinate the opposition.
>what the assassins want
They want complete freedom for all of humanity where we make our own choices and deal with the consequences regardless if it's good or bad. They are not opposed to governments, kings, or leaders of any kind but what they are opposed to is a person under said leadership being forced to be beholden to their whims even if they disagree. They don't want humanity in chains.
>what sets them apart
Templars are authoritarians who believe they know better.
Assassins are pseudo-anarchists or libertarians who believe people should be left to their own devices instead of treated like they can't make adult choices.
>what the fuck a "win scenario" looks like for both cases
For the Templars early on it was using the Apple to control the Isu-slave DNA in all of humanity to never let them rebel and simply govern them from their high chairs. Then it was using the Observatory to basically act like a CCTV for all of humanity until they realized around Syndicate they already have something way better in modern technology. Now with Shadows it's apparently Skynet.

For the Assassins it's just the Templar ideology being stopped and the Pieces of Eden hidden away from all of humanity so no one can use them.

>>737686173
Hey, don't think the Jews are exempt.

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>>737683473
Unity's entire story is about this very question. The compromise is in allowing humanity to govern itself while shepherding it silently from the shadows and intervening when necessary. They literally had a truce in France until Germaine decided to stir up the hornet's nest because he was bored and feeling nihilistic due to Aita whispering in his ear and you even had the Austrian Rite's leader come to France to speak with Mirabeau once he found out the situation with de la Serre just so the Templars could uphold the truce with the Assassins.

They legitimately were about to bury the hatchet in Unity and start that discussion across Europe and if it weren't for Elise being murdered it likely would have succeeded as Arno was also pushing for it.

The Templars and Assassins also have a significantly easier time burying the hatchet than the Order of the Ancients and Hidden Ones have because the OotA want humanity to go back to being subservient to the Isu and worshiping them like gods since they think humanity was better under their rule and Adam and Eve were wrong to rebel against them leading to our perpetual suffering due to freedom. This only changes once Aelfred kills off his entire Order because he believes Isu worship is an affront to God and blasphemy against the Trinity at which point the Templar Order is formed and pivots to what it is. The Hidden Ones think that that's rightfully insane and these people need to be stopped and humanity's freedom needs to be upheld.

>>737682554
>How did that came about
Templars were Christians (bad)
Assassins were Arabs (good, enlightened)

>>737688207
>Now with Shadows it's apparently Skynet.
Skynet is just a means to an end. The goal of the AI is to rewrite genetic history so that to the world at large, everything that you know actually happened never happened. And all the thousands of years of documentation of stuff can be called a prank, hoax, or some other fake in order for the Templars to control the narrative.

The entire franchise is just freemason propaganda, the Assassin's are freemasonry or the Knights Templar irl, and the Templars are monarchists and Christians

>>737688756
I haven't read the documents yet due to laziness so I don't know the extent it got, but it was my understanding it was more that Ego saw no value in humanity while the friendly AI saw humanity's worth and potential and is using The Eagle to help rewrite Ego's programming.

>>737681124
>Is it bad if I still at this point, after going from 1 to 4, have no fucking idea what the templars actually want, what the assassins want, what sets them apart and what the fuck a "win scenario" looks like for both cases
Not really because they are very fucking inconsistent between titles, it's ubisoft shit writting.

>>737682391
Aren't the NSDAP Templars in AC lore?

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>>737688821
Ego has its own agenda separate from the Templars, because against the advice of Maeda to take the AI down to properly bugfix it Abstergo was like "nah, let it roll".

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>>737688871
>because they are very fucking inconsistent between titles
No they aren't. Syndicate is the only time they ever actually had a Grand Master that was actually losing the plot and just doing it for the ability to rule London in perpetuity. That was a guy who should have had the Black Cross assassinating him because he was openly a Templar and making their work known to the public via all the stolen contracts and literally shipping in drugs marked with their emblem.

The Borgias were in full control of Italy via the Vatican even if they were doing what they wanted for power instead of the grand vision of the Templar ideology.
The Byzantine Templars literally wanted to crush the Ottoman Empire so that the entirety of the world at the time would be under one rule instead of separated.
Haytham's entire crew was about trying to keep the British monarchy in power because they had full control over it and didn't want the United States even as an idea to succeed because it would have meant unchecked power they then would need to influence and control.
The Caribbean Templars were trying to enact order in the area because the pirates were not only murderous scumbags who didn't care about anything but themselves leading to everyone's lives being ruined whenever they did anything, but they also directly affected Britain's interests (Which is basically Templar HQ at the time). Torres was trying to regain some semblance of order in the region that he could rule effectively.

Outside of Starrick there's not really a Templar that doesn't make sense.

>>737681124
The templars want BAD thing, the assassins want GOOD thing.

>>737681124
You should be aware by now that their overall goal is to have complete and absolute control over the world. That is their version of a utopian global peace. Cage the world and all mankind, so everyone lives on rails dictated by the Templars.
And that pretty much informs everything they do. In AC 1-3, the Templars are looking for Apples so that they can install it into a satellite and use its mind controlling powers over the entire planet. Making everyone subservient to Abstergo, squashing the undesirable traits in the human mind, and what not.
Iirc, their plans get vague after AC3, because Ubisoft hated the modern day story. But its still all about controlling the world and enforcing their version of world peace on mankind.

>>737681124
The original games, the first one especially has tons of occult esoteric shit in it. The templars/abstergo are illuminati, the assassins are free masons

>>737681882
Assassins were insane terrorists but templars like all crusaders were rapists and pillagers who got sent to the Middle East because the people in control were sick of their raping and pillaging at home. The crusades in general were just an excuse to vent the frustrations of horny young knight with no war.

>>737690510
Most retarded nigger post ever.

>>737690654
That’s how history goes, faggot. The wars dry up at home and a warrior caste, raised on their father’s violent deeds, get battle horny. Europe had a massive bandit knight problem before the first crusade.

>>737690874
So you're just gonna ignore the centuries of Muslim aggression in Europe? You fucking shitskin.

>>737691124
Brownery in Europe was a problem and a great excuse but wasn’t an existential threat like their own elite class stealing and robbing and dreaming about a civil war they could be the heroes of.

>>737681708
that's bullshit they just had some connections to templars like many historical figures but were never part of the order. templars even had to ally with assassins to stop hitler

>>737691447
>templars even had to ally with assassins to stop hitler
nu-AC was a mistake

>>737692196
That is either Project Legacy or AC2, nothing to do with nuAC.

>>737681124
They never really thought that far ahead. It was all window dressing and sequel hook mystery box material for making open world action games set in different historical periods. The only real motivation for the Templars is to control people and position themselves to rule over the masses. They want to take away or micromanage free will using the ancient alien macguffin technology. The Assassins are even more shallow and are just a generic leftoid power fantasy about fighting the government.

>>737681124
Assassins: Mystery niggas
Templars: Psycho niggas
Ubisoft: Jewish niggas

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>>737687694
>absolute wild west anarchy where warlords come and go on a weekly basis
>you get shanked to death out of nowhere if the ''totally free not the tyranical murdering order'' niggas think you're doing freedom wrong

>>737681124
templars wants absolute control for peace and stability but obviously with that amount of power it breeds tyranny
assassins wants freedom, it sounds good but sometimes it leads to unhinged anarchy like the disaster achilles era
simple enough

>>737681124
In the original games, the Templars and Assassins are pretty much just what they were IRL until their search for the grail get them to the Fragments of Eden.
The Assassins were funded as an answer to the templars. And I'm not talking about the original order led by Al Mualim, which was just another part of the templars before Al Mualim betrayed them, but the one created by Altair after the destruction of the previous one.
They originally don't have any other goals than just preventing the templars or anybody else from getting the Fragments of Eden and using them to control humanity. Altair spent his whole life studying them and didn't use his order to control humanity or anything like that.
In AC2, the order is reduced to basically nothing and they get completely wiped. Ezio creates a whole new order based on his findings on Altair's researches and go as far as anybody did in his quest for the Fragments until it is finished by Desmond.
Later games pretty much retcon this.

>>737690510
The Crusades were defensive and were 100% fully justified

>>737681124
>stephen harper
I miss that dork now

>>737682554
Dont worry about it; its alt-history for a reason
Basically templars in AC take after Ones Who Came Before (quasi-human aliens who lorded over actual humans using superior technology) and seek to restore totalitarian order using the same technology to subjugate the human race again with themselves at the top
Assassins in AC come from Adam and Eve who were the first two humans to rebel against the Ones Who Came Before by taking technology (the "Apple") from their overlords and using it to grant themselves personal autonomy and freedom, founding the basis for assassin ideology
A giganigga solar flare thousands of years ago killed most humans and the ones who came before, leaving behind what would become assassins and templars locked in an eternal struggle to reclaim what was lost

>>737681124
It's just generic
>people r dumbz so we must control them
vs
>people need to be free!!1! therefore I must murder people
They added a genetic component in the scifi backstory in 2, where the assassins were genetically human-forerunner alien hybrids, whereas the templars are mostly just jealous humans
Idk what happened with the scifi stuff after 3, they ruined the whole thing to make endless copypaste games out of it

>>737698381
>people r dumbz so we must control them
this is unironically true though

>>737681124
what sucks is Uniboft actually had a bit of commentary going on with how the Assassins' libertine ideology was just as capable of destroying society as was the Templars'. there was an undercurrent of how throughout the series' timeline starting in the 17th century, the Assassins (by virtue of getting major wins over the Templars) become just as corrupt and destructive as the Templars, and by the 19th century they've become so incompetent they are allowing unironic terrorists to openly employ street gangs to pursue personal pet goals. and it's this decadence and foolishness that directly leads to the world wars and the collapse of the assassin order by the beginning of the 21st century.

unfortunately Ubisoft threw this plot development out the window because the fanbase didn't care about the modern storyline and just wanted to kill people, so they shifted gears with Origins and Odyssey and turned the series into a generic fantasy action adventure game.

>>737682554
the Templars in AC aren't directly the real world Templars. they're a shadow group of authoritarians who, by the time period of AC1, were using the Templar religious order as their main base of operations. the lore of the first game makes it clear they predate the Templars as an order and when the Templar order faded away they shifted to the next major geopolitical group to use as a cover. the issue is AC3 onwards continued to use the 'Templar' name as a synonym for the group as a whole which muddied the difference between the two.

>>737686040
I liked the setting. colonial America is cool, seeing Boston and New York in the 18th century was cool. did not care for the story or to sailing stuff and absolutely hated 4 because it revolved around the sailing.

>>737688681
it's explicitly based on a book fromtjhe 1920s that almost singlehandedly invented the myth of the assassin order.

>>737689020
I think Hitler was early on but grew disillusioned and split off to do his own thing. Stalin, Churchill, and Roosevelt were also high ranking templars and declared war on him because they didn't want to risk such a powerful guy operating on his own without their oversight. both world wars were basically Templar civil wars.

Was assassin's creed the one with the 8 ft tall black dude in japan?

>>737691237
moors had explicitly colonised much of the Iberian peninsula and were looking to push northwards. the last remnants of the Roman empire fell to Moorish invasion in the 15th century. it was very much an existential threat for European society

>>737682554
It’s literally alt history. Also play the first game it explains the weird relationship between the assassins and templars. Also it’s kinda funny the other knight orders had no idea what was going on

Oh no I identify with the bad guys! So that means the good guys must be the bad guys!

>>737681327
verdict: brown
>>737681556
verdict: brown

>>737699792
No, please by the new hd version of black flag on steam to educate yourelf.

>>737699792
yea
not withstanding enslaved blacks were generally short

>>737681124

Play Rouge and then quit playing there.

>>737699792
:3....

>>737681280
So basically assassins are laissez faire capitalists and templars are far left communists.

>>737701279
he went rogue, not red

>>737681708
Those are all socialists.