How did character action games fail, and how did, somehow, Soulslikes games win?
>>737754752they just became gacha games
so atelier only outsells ninja gaiden because there are like 20 of the mother fuckers, right
Character action games are initially shallow and almost universally poorly designed. At first, they feel like hack and slash numbness, with enemies that take too long to kill and come in too great a number. Even the all stars like DMC3 are guilty of this. Later on, character action games become deep and engaging, but that takes time and mechanical studying. Soulslike games are immediately highly rewarding and punishing, easy to learn but challenging, and always well paced. If character action games wanted to win, they needed better level design and exploration, less damage sponge enemies, and less of a feeling like you're just smacking a weakling that can't fight back over and over again. Also, character action games need to put more mechanical depth up front, instead of making you slowwwwly trickle more abilities in by buying them throughout the game
>>7377549025 Atelier games released in 2025 alone lmao. Yumia, Resleriana spin off, Ryza 1-3 DX (which can be purchased separately, I have no doubt Koei counts a sale of the triple bundle a 3 Atelier series sales.)
>>737754752>Fatal Frame it didn't even registerSo it's dead for good now.
>>737754902ninja gaiden was dead for like a decade while atelier consistantly releases yearly and re-releases games
They should ass Nobunaga to Ninja Gaiden.
>>737755439It never was this popular.
>>737755439>Coomer franchise tried to reinvent itself with a coomerless game>Fails spectacularly It's amazing how both Code Vein 2 and Fatal Frame 2 remake released so close to each other.
>>737754752Cuz it's fucking hard to make a good character action game so much so that like 3 guys know how to make it. And you gotta still hold onto that raw 90s Xtreme Cheesy energy which the world has been trying to shame everyone out of. So you really gotta be a hardhead like Hideki Kamiya to pull it off. Or Tomonobu Itagaki, may his soul rest in peace.
>>737754752>Fatal Frame 2 not even mentionedThat hurts really bad. I don't get why it didn't sell better. Did RE9 take too much attention away from it?Man I really hope we get 1 and 3 remakes and a nee entry.>>737755742>Fatal Frame>coomer franchiseWhat
>>737755868>I don't get why it didn't sell betterBecause it was a bad game. That's all there's to it.
>>737755942To me it was a good remake of an already great game. What was bad about it for you?
>>737756017>To meJust because you think it's a good game it doesn't mean it is one.
>>737754990everything you're talking about is untrue. the mastering of the game mechanics IS the progression, and the trickle-down of abilities is a preliminary, more story-related way to convey it while also giving the impression of "learning" this new cool technique. enemies have never been punching bags in harder difficulties: if anything, their more curated placements and their movesets make them more dangerous than the average soulslike enemy which stops being a threat once you've got a good, or just more advanced setup going. and, in my opinion, exploration is mostly irrelevant for this kind of games. it's nice to have it, but it's not what i come there for, and the dumb minigames, puzzles or platforming sections can get annoying on replays. once people understand these games' philosophies run along that of a martial art you can get better at and master, you will comprehend how good they are.on another note, even artistically i see them better than soulslikes. that genre hasn't really advanced story-wise and even aesthetics-wise since fucking dark souls, and base their stories often on lore which is often an end in itself. meanwhile, character action games have more varied settings, characters and stories, and among them there are even all-timers like MGR and NMH that still get discussed for it's themes to this day.
>>737756017>good remake>censored to hell>30 fps in PS5Pro>good remake
>>737754752>dynasty warriors/nobunaga/samurai warriorsnever got musou games or however its called, just boring>Dead or Alivethis franchise has been dead since like the 4th game when they started hiding titties...I love the counter system because it makes single combo players mald>Niohmeh its a meh version of dark souls idgiso not much to talk about, itagaki is dead too right so you cant even bring him back to fix shit
>>737756017NTA but>Censorship>Way less content than the previous Wii remake, as far as removing several endings and the arcade mode >Poorly designed focus on action to the point where it felt like Resident Evil 4 or even Space Marine, shooting damage sponge enemies every two minutes>The panic day one patch made the game even worse >Bloated Camera Obscura mechanics>Poor performance on both PS5 and PCIt will be one of the worst games of 2026.
>>737754752Mario Warriors when?
>>737756487don't forget the abhorrent """"""realistic""""""art style or the new shitty stealth / pursuit sections that added nothing but tediumi'm glad I pirated it
>>737756487I am surprised I am in the minority. I didn't have trouble with combat or the 30fps. The obscura mechanics were a bit too complicated and I don't like removing content from previous games. However, to my knowledge they added more content to the base game, even though it was fairly minor to my understanding.Wow, people really didn't like it then? Man that sucks for the franchise.If they fixed all that, do you think it would have sold better?
>>737754752I thought Atelier sold more
>>737754752Fromsoftware is the greatest developer of our time while KT is stuck in the past.
>>737754752>be kt>be afraid to do anything because youve been sued by bandai & Capcom>your only saving grace is the nintendo slave minesSounds like an average experience to me
>>737756904>Wow, people really didn't like it then?Why do you think it bombed?
>>737754752You get to summon better players in soulslikes and let them carry your bum ass so you can claim gamer cred for 'beating' the game while doing nothing but watching someone solo your bosses for you.
>>737756925Yumia flopped
>>737757018I mean more like people knew about the game existing and decided not to play it. Was it all Fatal Frame and horror game fans going 'I am not playing that game'?Low sales doesn't mean a game is necessarily bad. One of the best games I ever played has really low sales.
>>737754752>Character action games
>>737756487>Not true>Not true at all whatsoever, it actually adds endings>Same as the old games then>Not true>Not true>Only runs badly on consolesretard
>>737757214>Low sales doesn't mean a game is necessarily bad.It does because it means that it was a product that was unable to satisfy enough customers. And I'm not talking about 20 million sales, but simply enough to earn back a profit. >One of the best games I ever played has really low sales.Given how you think FF2R is a good game then that game must have been awful too.
They're typically a lot harder and not for fags who think souls games are hard OP
The only game of theirs that recently definitely outright failed was the one that wasn't made by one of their studios and was paid for by Xbox. Seems like they are doing fine.Anyway even if their games suddenly stop making money they can just make it up with the ridiculously good investments and assets they have.
>>737757669But by that logic good sales = good game, which isn't necessarily true either.From a product perspective, then yes you are correct. Bad sales = less profit = failed product for the company. I don't think high profit necessarily means a game is good either, if we compare sales expectations. >must have been awful tooWhatever you think, I am sure there are games you think are great which didn't make high sales either. If we only go by sales numbers as determinates of how good a game is, then we are in trouble.
>>737757838>They're typically a lot harderNot on a first playthrough they aren't. Most people don't finish games once, thinking 4th playthrough difficulty is getting in the way of sales numbers is stupid.People are several times more likely to get filtered by the first playthrough being too easy to the point of being boring than the highest difficulty being too high.
>>737754990Do you genuinely believe DMC3 enemies come in too great a number and take too long to kill compared to Dark Souls? It sounds like you've seen a screenshot of Dynasty Warriors 6 and assumed DMC is the same game.
>>737754752>How did character action games failThey didn't. Nier Automata, Devil May Cry, God of War, Stellar Blade, and so on are very popular.I wish Crimson Sea hadn't been a cross-platform fuckjob. CS2 was so goddamned cool, it would have been great to see it get innovated upon.
>>737758067Yeah, whoever at Team Ninja told Koei Tecmo it wasn't worth dedicating their internal resources to make a Ninja Gaiden nowadays and told them to just give it to a third party even if it meant keeping a lot less of the money is definitely getting a promotion.
>>737754752SOulslike are for normies who think that a game that punishes mistake are Le HardAction games are for speed, execution, and timing what video games was originally about
>>737756169>the mastering of the game mechanics IS the progressionThis is retarded and not what either of those words mean.
>>737754990>Even the all stars like DMC3 are guilty of thisThis is only true on DMD and even then not really because that difficulty is balanced around DT explosion, you're supposed to be bursting rooms but it does take a bit of strategy and timing to get it right.
>>737754902yes, they also get DX versions so its double dipping.
The only reason DMC has good sales figures is because it's the OG action game franchise and the characters are very memeable. Pretty much every other "character action" game struggled on sales except GoW 1-3 which thrived because it went really high effort in spectacle and graphics at their time. It's just not a very popular genre because like fighting games there's an extra layer of effort to really get into them and if you're only playing at a surface level they're not actually that fun. Bad position to be in as a video game. MGR is an outlier because it has both high effort set pieces and memeable characters.
>>737755117the triple bundle is just 3 separate purchases so it sohuld be separate counts, versus trilogy games that actually come in one install
>>737757641>Not trueI'm working right now; otherwise I would post Mayu's bike shorts.Someone post the .webm of PS2 Mio givung us a pamty shot.
>>737754752>Soulslikes games win?Mainly because they are manufactured "genre". Their combat is easier to copy and make by developers. Encounters focus on 1v1 fights, not only during bosses but also fodder enemies who are very easy to lure "character action games" use kung fu circle circle instead. Souls likes have bigger ficus on lore, story, "RPG" elements, worlds and exploration making them more casual friendly. Casuals want sandboxes, not games.>>737758491>a game that punishes mistake are Le HardThat's correct >video games was originally aboutVideo games originally were extensions of board games. DMC 5 is toy, don't compare ninja gaiden to it.
>>737759138DMC 4-now are barely even games let alone action games they are more like mmo combatwhere the enemies just face tank everything
If these games are so hard to make? Why were we flooded with DMC Copycats during the ps2 era?
>>737759447All of those copycats were shit precisely because those games are hard to make.
>>737755742>coomer franchiseThis has to be some kind of retarded revisionism. Pretty sure it was a regular horror series for most of its games.
>character action games
>>737754752Maybe if character action games didn't insult players for having low score they'd be more popular
>>737760074It's a shitpost. Some guy's been pissing and shitting about how Fatal Frame has always been the Senran Kagura of survival horror or some inane shit ever since the new remake of 2 got announced. The series plays it completely straight in the 6th gen, and aside from a stupid Zero Suit unlockable the 4th game doesn't do anything crazy either. It's the 5th one that goes a bit off the rails.
>>737758894>struggled on saleThis is incorrect. Ninja Gaiden 04 had very good sales, it was pushed as an exclusive system seller. More niche action games sold pretty well during the 00s.>went really high effort in spectacle and graphics at their timeThat is true for every "character action" game of 2000s>>737759447>floodedThat is by itself an exaggeration. AAA action games during 6-7th generation were much more different from one another that modern Soulslikes, and there wasn't that many of them in the first place. And copying souls is still easier.
>>737754990Why do the dumbest people speak the most confidently?
>>737754990trvke
>>737760495It takes a certain capacity for self-reflection to realize and admit that one's perspective isn't always right. Also, some people just like to start shit.
>>737760412>Ninja Gaiden 04 had very good salesNo it didn't. It was one of the biggest bombs of 2025.
>>737754752>How did character action games failThe good ones stopped being made and Nigger Goyden was always shit>how did, somehow, Soulslikes games win>somehowlmao
>>737758894Its because DMC5 got literally memed into mainstream not any shit you said lmao. You do know that entire DMC series combined before DMC5 was at like 7m copies sold including Collection so on par with NG before NG4 flopped and DMC5 outsold entire series combined.
>>737760304>Fatal Frame has always been the Senran Kagura of survival horrorExactly. You're the one with the weird revisionism, claiming that those games were legitimate horror games when they're just the gaming equivalent of those racy TV shows featuring gravure idols.
>>737761191DMC4 sold pretty well, something like 3 million copies. The series suffered from lost momentum after DMC2
>>737759447i looked into this game and its literally metal gear rising but it came out first, what the fuck
>>737754990>>737754752Lower skill ceiling and a fixed high difficulty.Turns out most people don't learn to do an instant charge attack by pressing heavy attack button at the precise moment on landing while following it up with a light attack combo with a heavy attack and then a shuriken cancel to then quickly finish the enemy with a heavy attack and learn all the weapons combos,counters and so on.No,people just mash the buttons on easy and don't learn the gameplayIn Souls it's the same, people do the bare minimum to complete the game, in this case its roll and attack but the ceiling its not much higher unlike action games.>tldr people don't learn how to play action games,they play on easy/normal once and done
Because they will always fail the $1 should equal at least 1 hour of play mantra. To the average gamer they have the same value ratio as a walking simulator you refund before two hours.
>>737755439Isn't Fatal Frame 5 the only one with huge tits and tits jiggle physic costumes and available on the Switch 2?
>>737762370>$1 should equal at least 1 hour of play mantraThis is a ploy only a retard could fall for so I'm not surprised that the """gamers""" who want CONTENT above everything else would do exactly that.
>>737762928I mean yeah, just look at the success of Crimson Desert.
I'll be honest - I didn't even know that it was possible to see Mayu's panties in the original. It was really stupid to make it extremely obvious that she is wearing shorts now. While I hope that we will get a new FF game, the game deserved to flop because of the censorship.Combat was better than in the original (except for ghosts regenerating health) but still worse than in FF5.
>>737763108/v/ itself has been spamming non-stop how RE9 is a shit game due to $70 for 10 hours while Crimson Desert gives you infiite gameplay hurs for the same price
>>737761474And this is what I'm talking about. Thank you for perfectly illustrating my point.
>>737754752Doesn’t help Ninja Gaiden 4 was a terrible game. It was shit even NG3 was better. If NG4 was good
>>737763191>but still worse than in FF5It's harder to learn but way more versatile once you get into it. Treating the paraceptual filter as a sniper rifle is cool, and when you get the muscle memory down bypassing the radiant filter's shitty reload speeds by switching off to the exposure filter is INSANELY broken.
>>737763328I have no idea why you're so desperate to gaslight /v/ into believing that Fatal Frme was a legitimate horror game series.What's next? Claiming that Rumble Roses was a legitimate competitor against WWE and made Vince shit his pants?
>>737761658No it didnt sold well thats why Capcom went with western reboot instead of developing DMC5 in house then. They did same shit with every single game that was developed internally in Japan but didnt sold well because they though "lower than expected sales? lets give the IP to inafune and western studio!".
>>737755868>WhatYes, Fatal Frame, the game series where you play as pretty school girls whose panties you can see, was indeed a coomer game.
And he's off to the races.
>>737762024Learning combos to better beat up something with the threat of a watermelon is not enjoyable or good motivation. That is the issue with CA games, just as the guy you responded to said. They're closer to traditional arcade fighting games than action-adventure, and fighting games are a niche. That's why CA games "lost" while the Souls forumula thrives. As it turns out, overcomplication is not widely appealing.
>>737763805Don't pretend like these games were walks in the park.NG has it's hardcore infamy statusDMC1 was considered challenging and 3 has plenty of filters like cerberus.
>>737758417NTA but that is objectively the case. DMC3 enemies are both more durable and more numerous than Souls enemies. By a lot.In Souls games you typically have 2-3 enemies that die in 2-3 hits but also kill you in 2-3 hits.
>>737760412>That is true for every "character action" game of 2000sThe only character action game I know of that came close to matching GoW in terms of large-scale spectacles was Dante's Inferno
>>737762024That shit is boring and unsatisfying
>>737763969nta but that's the issue that they're delineating, since they're more arcade in nature they are harder, take more skill and aren't as free in how people can approach fights and bosses.
>>737763805This. In some rhythm games or even shmups for instance you need to get good to perform and progress to see the end. The same isn't required in most character action games save for ninja gaiden
>>737754752>how did casual shit win saa
>>737763969The issue is they take too long to get there. You can't expect the average consumer, even the non-average consumer to sit through hours of piss easy fights using an overcomplicated combo system that are essentially just combat training just to finally face a challenge. In DS2, DS3, and ER you are facing off with a legitimate challenge in 3-15 minutes. Why would I ever choose the game that wastes my time before getting to the better parts over one that simply throws me right into it?
>>737754752Same reason why 98% of all fightan die yet sf6 succeeded
>>737764279Or rather, to be stylish in games other than character action you NEED to get good and efficient. Being stylish is just a nice side bonus that comes along
>>737764296>>737764183>>737763805Simple movement and attacks was fun in 1998 with Medievil and Sir Daniel Fortesque but going back to that after Ninja Gaiden 1-2 and Devil May Cry 1-3-4 is nonsense.
>>737754902I alone bought at least 40 units of their 8 million total btw.
>>737754752why has fatal frame never caught on in the west despite pretty much every person who has checked it out enjoying it and spreading good word of mouth about the series? what about it is so unappealing to normies?
>>737764643There is no answer to that. No one knows why some games are successful while other, equally good or better games are not. Everyone agrees Silent Hill games 1-3 are better than Resident Evil games, yet Resident Evil games have always sold more.
>>737764296>The issue is they take too long to get thereThat's a blantant lie, anon.NG literally bombards you with enemies the first second you begin, and they can kick your ass if you don't pay attention. Hell, Murai is literally all about teaching the player to not be greedy and to hunt for openings.Phantom comes as early as mission 3 and quite literally considered a BS difficulty spike. Cerberus literally does the same in 3 in the same exact mission number.
>>737764535Well good thing you don't have to go back, because plenty of series pushed that idea forward (living in the past is actually optional. Crazy, I know!)Regardless, my point here isn't to shit on CA games. I'm simply explaining why they haven't been as popular as the Souls formula over time. You clearly prefer combat systems and power fantasy. Not everyone does. Most people actually don't. That's all fine
>>737764535MediEvil's combat is good because of how masterfully paced tool acquisition is. If you're playing it correctly, you have a new weapon to play with on most levels, and thr difficulty curve anticipates that you're doing your due diligence. Your arsenal can get quickly outclassed if you're sloppy.
>>737764874>it's a blatant lie because 1 game in the genre we're talking about doesn't do that.You have the brain of a woman.
>>737764045Bayonetta was just as spectacle heavy. NuGow has basically no spectacles and sold much better than the originals, for many reasons. I meant that those games in general (DMC, NG, GOW, Onimusha, Shinobi, Bujingai, Lords of Shadow, That Wolverine game etc) sold well by having exciting power fantasy premises, looking cool and having relatively high quality production values compared to everything else on the market in the 00s.>>737764535>MedievilThat one is and always was just a janky platformer. If you want a good game with simple moveset and similar themes play Maximo.
>>737764643Because they aren't good games and what people praise is the cute girls, not the games themselves.
>>737764643My guess is that it being too japanese is just unappealing to westeners. You hvae to remember japanese stuff was pretty niche and only a couple of weirdos would be into it, also probably being into Kaiju Eiga and other similar horror movies.Likewise, all it's main characters being semi defenseless girls is probably a turnoff. It makes sense that RE caught on since it's somewhat of a mix of a slasher horror film and also an action movie.
>>7377650053 games, anon.I mentioned 3 fucking games, all considered as staples and classics of the genre.
>>737765061>MediEvil>platformerAnyone that has suffered through PotAD in its original incarnation would never refer to MediEvil as such. The "platforming" is perhaps its weakest aspect.
>>737765101Fatal Frame 1-3 are some of the best horror games ever made. If you disagree you are simply stupid.
>>737764643Because it's an unapologetically Japanese series, deeply rooted in Japanese folkloric and mythological tradition, to say nothing of how strange its mechanical hook is. It's the kind of series that I'm surprised garners any significant western fanbase at all.
>>737754752The same way that Skyrim is somehow a milestone.Dark Souls became popular with retarded normalfag crowd at an opportune time and little else
>>737765432Don't respond to it.
>>737765432Nah. If they were they would have eclipsed Resident Evil and Silent Hill.Instead even derivative indie shit like Signalis is actually well known.
>>737754752So that means we are getting more Fatal Frame games right?
>>737764643the gaming audience wants slop, not good video games
>>737765354Maybe. I played it years ago on the ps1/ps2 and other than liking Maximo much more, which I played soon after and replayed through the years, janky platforming is all I remember.
>Ryza games are casualized coomer bait>Yumia was a disaster>Reslerana or whatever her name is was shitAtelier is dead.
Rise of the Ronin bros...
>>737754752collecting equipment is funit's kind of hilarious that the entire dynasty warriors series has only sold 24m games though, those guys should honestly be ashamed of themselves, they've made like 50 games.>>737765658it's baffling how badly that game runs and they, or modders, never fixed it
>>737765592It somehow hasn't died after all this time. I don't know if FF6 will necessarily be greenlit (God willing, though) they have admitted that revisiting 1 & 3 isn't impossible either. At this point though, I would REALLY like a new original entry, especially given how much of a revamp the combat got with this recent remake.
>>737754752Holy fuck i miss Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors now at their peak. Every game just pushed the IP higher in quality than before, the characters more intimately familiar and the amount of insane silly weapons you could fight with crazier and crazier.
>>737765628Expedition 33 and Silksong invalidated every other game released in 2025. Neither Yumia or NG4 had any chance.
>twitter screencap thread
>>737754752Character action games are basically too difficult for your modern audience. You can't just grind power.
What am i in for?
>>737765812Yumia was just a bad Atelier game, anon.If it was the only game released in the entire year across the entire planet people would still say "wow, they fucking ruined Atelier" when it came out
>>737754752Character action games usually lock you into a specific playstyle, while soulslikes give you more options.If you don't like ninjas, you won't buy a ninja game. Meanwhile in Elden Ring, you can be a ninja, a knight, a mage.. you get the idea. Character creation also makes these games infinitely more appealing because you can just do whatever you want instead of having to play whatever the directors fetish was at the time.
>>737754752Character action games require skill, soulslikes do not. Whether to play or to develop.
>>737765812>NG4It never had any chances as it was a game for nobody. IMO, Ghost of Yotei was the final nail in its coffin.
>>737765658>>737765701>Rise of the RoninDoes it really run that poorly?
>>737754752they ripped off the shitty one (dmc) instead of the good one (god hand)
Character Action games suffer because they're 3D and cameras suck. They should unironically be 2D. Like Duel Savior.
>>737759123Nobody cares, and if someone does give a shit then they don't play these games anyway and they will likely end up in prison in the future anyway. Mayu has never looked better.
>>737766053It runs great now! go ahead and buy it!
>>737765628Atelier is basically cursed with having to make crafting appealing to wider JRPG audience who don't just play for the cute protagonist. Also, Resleriana was a re-purposed title so I can't have cost them that much.
>>737766050Both of those designs are aimed at feminists, faggots and trannies.You're supposed to play as a man.
>>737761474I know right, I mean how did they even get away with this? It would be more respectful to just make her naked.
>>737766171
>>737766053Considering how it looks like a kind of bad PS3 game, yes. I think it runs worse than DD2, it's at least around that level. And I posted a screenshot of a cutscene which looks much better than the gameplay so don't judge the visuals based on that there.
>>737764643American people will absolutely never have any interest in a game that doesn't have guns or a ball. FF instantly filters 80% of supposed survival horror fans because it doesn't involve blowing zombies in half with shotguns and hand grenades. I'm not complaining, the reason the series is unpopular is also the reason why it's so good. Because it cares about tone, atmosphere and narrative more than bombast and hype moments.
>>737764643Might as well ask why Ku-on didn't catch on. Like others have said they're very Japanese. I'm just surprised something like Siren got multiple games, for example.
>>737766184I just want to autistically craft things with cute girlsis that too much to ask?
>>737764535>mfw people didn't like the remake because it was "too accurate to the original"
>>737754752BECAUSE CHARACTER ACTION GAMES ARE FUN AND SOULSLIKES AKA ANYTHING THAT ISNT DARK SOULS 1IS A LOOSH HARVESTSAME WITH CRAPPY PVP GAMESI FUCKING HATE WHAT HAS BEEN DONE TO VIDEO GAMESIM GOING TO PUT LINUX ON WHATEVER I HAVE AND FUCK OFF DESU
>>737765927Slow but well designed gameplay, and probably the best horror game narrative after SH2
>>737755117ryza looks fun but atelier just seems like shovelware lolhalf the npcs in ryza are like literally window dressingand you can walk thru them no collisionnot worth a buy only worth a piratetoo much dlc and shit locked behind huge payments
musouchads win again
>>737766443Stay mad ninja troon. Soulslikes are the only fun video games left.
>>737764643There are good-looking female protagonists in each of the FF games and that is a BIG no-no to Americans.
>>737763590the PS2 games were legit horror games wtf are you talking aboutzoomer revisionist schizophrenic
>>737765701more like 80
>>737754752Character action games are fucking retarded>here, play this mediocre, very short game 5x, sorry we are so shitty and low budget the game only gets good on the 3rd playthrough when youre already bored of it.Vs, hey here's a 60 hour+ souls game that fully explores the extent of the game mechanics in the first playthrough, also it's repayable because you can play it in 20 different ways.No wonder people prefer souls shit, the game is actually long enough to accommodate the full mechanical runway and it takes off at the final boss, stylish action requires full blown repetitive autism.
>>737766171>>737766239I updated it a while ago since it wouldn't launch and booted it up and it still looked and ran bad.
>>737766738Are you getting Battle Tendency next week? it looks nice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VIKA-juhJE
>>737766784Entire point of character action games is mastery. Less replaying over and over again and more playing on high difficulty so game busts your balls until you get good enough to beat it. It's no coincidence they all come with some sort of style high score system. This simply doesn't appeal to most people who want to finish the game and move on, though.
>>737766784you have it the other way around - souls games are for shitters who can't actually GET GUD at straight up combat character action requires. or at least that was the case. I'd argue the skill floor has greatly increased from ps2 days to now.
What they should do next for each one:>Samurai Warriors Origins into Orochi 5 with katana engine. Get some cool guests to draw in people who don't know the series.>Nobunaga's Ambition honestly fine as it is, no idea what else they could do>Already making DOA7 so just make that good. Keep Xtreme series locked to Asia to keep it safe.>Never played ROTK sorry>Risky but potentially good: make a Nioh online-focused game reusing assets from the trilogy. Nightreign style but not shit, and let us play as all the samurai and waifu characters from the series.>Never played Atelier>Wipe NG4 from canon and make a real legacy sequel>Wo Long 2 with a few more RPG elements removed, keep those to Nioh and make Wo Long more action focused
Is MGR a good introduction to the genre? Been thinking about trying these games for a while.
>>737767076>>Nobunaga's Ambition honestly fine as it is, no idea what else they could do>>Never played ROTK sorryIt's funny because they try plenty with both series. RoTK played with both real time and turn-based.
>>737758401Maybe that's true for Devil May Cry since you can take so many hits on lower difficulties but Ninja Gaiden from 2004 was definitely harder on normal than fromslop. Games journos couldn't finish it and they had to add an easy mode for NGBlack that was even easier and fed you a ton of healing items on top
>>737766050>It never had any chances as it was a game for nobody.same with dmc5, sadly.
>>737767164Its a middle step between them DMC1 is even closerThe peak is NG2(or 3) and DMC4
>>737766974Now imagine if DMC hadn't created this autistic arcade format where you play the same shit 50 times and actually made a game that was as long as a souls game and got you to a 4th playthrough new game +++ skill level on a single playthrough. That is closer to how sekiro functions as its a middle ground between the two and surprise surprise, despite the more limited play style it's probably the most widely and highly regarded stylish action adjacent game ever made.I've always thought JRPGs and stylish action deserved each others battle systems. Jrpgs are 80 hours long yet have a battle system that is boring after 10, character action has a battle system that lasts 100 hours but the game finishes after 10. The game needs to be long enough to teach you how to play the game the fun way and this genre sucks at it, the first playthough is always the worst one which is upside down.
>>737754752This just proves that autists on /v/ who spam NG are just a loud minority
>>737767058I count sekiro as more of a souls game than a character action game and it's the most get gud action game ever made, you will not finish the game if you don't learn to parry, full stop. dmc and bayo are piss easy the first playthrough, it never demands you git gud, it just keeps handing you more autistic difficulty levels so you tap out long before your skill does.
>>737767358>same with dmc5Nah. Not really. DMC 5 was an extremely safe game full of fanservice and pandering with an absurdly low skill floor that created a whole new generation of meme zoomie combo troons that hate even the previous games in the series because they are too 'unfair' and don't have enough 'freedom'.
>>737766738What's the best musou/w-force game for a cuhrayzefag?
you guys will complain about action games being too hardcore then complain about people not playing hardcore gamesnever change, /v/
>>737767826probably Origins, or Toukiden
>>737767826Not strikers.
>>737767826You just liested them
>>737767164Not really, MGR is an introduction to a weird side alley that includes half assed character action games like nier automata and astral chain where you push forward to parry. It's good in that it is fun but it doesn't teach you to appreciate any other games on a deeper level. Because these games are retarded you kind of have to play them in release order to get the correct experience of leveling up your skills alongside the complexity of the genre. This means starting with earlier dmcs and working your way up to bayo. your mileage may vary according to your level of autism though, dmc isn't the most fun on a low level but it is how you learn to appreciate the genre.
>>737767826Origins was a MASSIVE second wind for Musou games. I'd argue it's the best implementation of combat and scale so far. Only problem is it's specifically a pulled back game where you get a barely existing roster, something that was previously the main selling point of these games.
>>737766441Og Medievil was cartoon badass.Remake is just cartoon.
>>737768208I'm hopeful for DW3 remake, but you also know it won't be anywhere near as deadly as original was.
>>737754752Surprised Nioh managed to outdo most of these, especially Ninja Gaiden.
>>737765628>Reslerana or whatever her name is was shitwrong>Atelier is dead.also wrong since a new Atelier will be announced at the next Nintendo Direct. keep doomposting. >>737765812Yumia would be considered a shit not-Atelier game even if it was released in 2020 or before. nothing could've save that garbage.
>>737768391It's the game people know. Ninja Gaiden means fuck all to modern players.
>>737757838This is the opposite of reality. Souls games are much harder on their first playthrough, character action is so easy people mistake them for mindless button mashers. The reason everyone likes NG the most is the fist playthrough difficulty was almost uniquely demanding for the genre.
>>737768493Nioh is a relatively new series.
>>737768627no the equivalent would be if you played a character action game on hard by default.
>>737768779Yes, that's the point. It's something people know. NG doesn't mean anything anymore. Hell, it's actually surprising they even made 4.
>>737767850There's a difference between hardcore and autism. Character action games take way too long to become demanding, I dont want to have to seperate the experience of the surface level elements like music, story and exploration from the mechanics which is what replaying on higher difficulties demands.
>>737768876No, I mean that it started from nothing, which from a marketing standpoint is way worse than an established IP, and it got popular on it's own merit.NG should be outselling Nioh.
>>737766826that looks shitty but in a soulful kinda way lol
>>737768781You have to unlock the real hard mode on most of these games which tells me the game wasn't tuned for any of the initial difficulties. Dmc one step up from normal is still nowhere near as demanding as an average souls game.
>>737765927The best entry point in the series. Probably the easiest camera gameplay in the series to grasp, but in turn also probably the least nuanced. Presentation and pacing are just about perfect, all in all a very smoothly crafted game.
>>737766441As a near lifelong fan of the original I adore the remake. Added 2's weapon swap feature, Dan's helmet makes for a great hard mode, it features boss patterns left unused from the original code, AND if you still want to complain about all of that it includes the original game as an unlockable. Far as I'm concerned, it's the last good thing to come from Sony's first party IP.
>>737754752unlike "character action", soulslikes are good games
>>737754752Because character action is too damn cool for the state of this industry and these lame ass faggot gamers.
>>737756181It's 60 fps on PC. PS5 pro can't handle 4k. Sorry, Sony bro.
>>737768913nigga just skip them no problem, can't you just differentiate between gameplay-focused runs and story-focused reruns?these games also take just some hours to finish without cutscenes and such
>>737767164Its a fun game but hell no.
>>737765927The silent hill 2 of fatal frame, enjoy.
>>737771961Why can't you understand that having to seperate a "story run" from a mechanically satisfying one is retarded game design. Every other game is capable of doing both simultaneously.
>>737769106Looks like early Xbox 360/PS3 Musous. 99 nights, shit like that. I am getting it. It has co op and arpg loot autism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPP_4LvdhiY
>>737754752So, do you guys think they’re ever going to make another Samurai Warriors? I found the last game so terribly boring, but I still really want a new one.
Character action games are dog shit because anyone that wants challenge and mechanical complexity is just going to play a fighting game, nobody wants to beat up defenseless mooks. If they did they'd play Dynasty Warriors. There is ZERO niche that character action games fill. Genuinely the worst genre of video games in existence, nobody likes them. DMC5 only succeeded because of the characters and music.
>>737772721They are going to make one when a new Sengoku Basara comes out
>>737755742>Coomer franchise tried to reinvent itself with a coomerless gameIt's funny how this applies to neither FF2 remake or CV2. It's almost like you're a shitposting third worlder and have not played either of those series.
>>737756335nobunagas ambition isnt a musou. Its a strategy game, like rotk.
>>737766120>here's my criticism>that's not true>yes it is>well it dosn't matter anywayWhy the fuck did you even bother claiming it wasn't true if you were going to instantly backpedal? I don't even disagree with you but god damn you're fucking stupid.
>>737754752Why'd they make Dynasty Warriors fujo-bait gay tho. Oh they took ESG pledge, explains a lot.https://automaton-media.com/en/news/dynasty-warriors-origins-gay-undertones-were-kind-of-an-accident-series-producer-admits/Also Dynasty Warriors 8 and 9 had the girls looking sexy. Origins covered them up for resetera modesty reasons. Fuck em, not giving money to devs that ally with leftists. Glad the last Ninja Gaiden flopped.
>>737773019So the niche of fighting multiple enemies(not fighting games) with a complex moveset(not Souls or Dinasty Warriors) ???
>>737773580Origins was awesome though
Deception status?Dead and buried....At least put the ps4 games on pc so the whole series could played in it....
>>737773019Fighting games look like dogshit whether playing competitive or casual.
A lot of the time simplicity is great. Having just one or two attack buttons is all you need instead of a bunch of inputs for different skills or dial-a-combos. Using a simple move set against various different foes in different situations is entertaining enough.
>>737773208>It's funny how this applies to neither FF2 remake or CV2.It literally does. Both are coomer franchises, which is why biker shorts were enough to destroy both games.
>>737772656then play every run fully, faggot. nobody's gonna stop you from rewatching every cutscene on a rerun
>>737773541Wrong again, I told you your non-player critiques you read from twitter are both not true AND that nobody with a brain cares. You haven't said a single true thing in this entire thread, either get your brain enabled or fuck off.
>>737754752because Nioh is a gacha game
>>737773580If you played the game you would know it makes every hero player-sexual. All the girls say the same stuff to the player character even though they are meant to be already married. They even make Diao Chan your little sidekick.
>>737754752I bought Yumia because she looked cute
>>737760495You tell me.
>>737774873hate to tell you but gay shit is gay bro, there is no <whattabout> that un-gays it.
>>737772709Yeah you could definitely spend your money worse elsewhere, this is the AA of old where devs maybe didn't have the most money and talent but worked really hard to make something cool. And it doesn't have that veneer of chinese unreal engine soulless rehash.
>>737773019>play a fighting gameor starcraft
>>737769105Nioh is sort of riding on the Soulslike genre hype, so it makes sense that it outsold Ninja Gaiden despite it being around far longer, and that's on top of the fact that many games in it's franchise have been platform exclusive to Nintendo or Xbox.
>>737774563Sorry I cant be bothered to understand the mind of an autist and you are unable to understand the mind of a person without mental illness. You only experience the story once, people who do not have autism do not like to repeat shit, that first playthrough is never the mechanical culmination but is always the story playthrough, by their own retarded design.
character action games ARE popular. DMCV sold 10 million and is very popular and beloved online and Kingdom Hearts 4 is begged for every gaming showcaseNobody likes ninja gayden. The games have bad cameras, bad bosses, bad puzzles, bad controls and annoying combat. It also has unappealing characters that are generic cringe and a shitty story But because Ninja GAYden faggots think the entire action genre revolve around them for whatever reason, they think character action games are dead. You bring up any other action game? NOOOOO LET ME HAVE A MELTIE AND SHOW TO YOU HOW NINJA GAYDEN IS...LE SO MUCH MORE SUPERIORThe answer is nobody likes ninja gayden. Character action games are fine
>>737777035character actions games are not popular, your two examples just have brand recognition.>OMG IS THAT GLORP SHITTO???? THERE'S A NEW GLORP SHITTO GAME!!! I POINTED AT THE SCREEN AND CLAPPED BECAUSE I SAW MY FAVORITE LOGO ON THE SCREEN!!!!! PLEASE TAKE MY HECKIN BIG CHUNGUS ALLOWANCE
>>737754752because in action games, getting by on the skin of your teeth gives you a Z ranking and makes you feel like shit, while in souls games it feels way more satisfying clutching a victory on 1HP
>>737777114>your two examples just have brand recognitionninja gaiden is a franchise from the fucking 80s next to other iconic franchises like mega man and mario and had entire spinoffs during the xbox eratry again
>>737777249it was a dead franchise only known to modern audiences thanks to AVGN crying about it.The 3D Ninja Gaiden games were never popular.Try again, redditspacer :)
>>737777035>sonic fag>most retarded opinion you could have imagineDMCV outsold entire series because it got memed by redditors into mainstream. Entire DMC series was at like 7 million copies sold before DMC5 for a reason. Kingdom Hearts is an IP thats using the most popular characters ever created too. What kind of braindead comparison is that you negro. NG fags being obnoxious own fart smelling cucks is on thing but your entire post is gay as fuck.
Maybe the reason Ninja Gaiden isn't selling is because Koei Tecmo keeps trying to reivent a franchise nobody was asking to be reinvented, nobody asked for whatever NG3, Yaiba, Ragebound and NG4 was doing; fans literally just want "more NG2" and they can't accomplish the bare fucking minimum.Notice how DMC5 was basically exactly what fans wanted and it sold extremely well, funny how that works out.
>>737755439There was a new one?
>>737754752I have a theory that deep down normalfags dont actually like video games. They just want interactive movies with very basic and simple gameplay. Its why they love shit like nuGod of War, The Last of Us, Red Dead 2, etc.Character action is a genre that has too much gameplay and not enough story for your average normalfag.
>>737777593This. I just want to play as Hayabusa and not some Tokyo Ghoul OC.
>>737777729Yes a remake of the second one with some really stupid changes and trying to emulate RE4R badly.
>>737777593>Notice how DMC5 was basically exactly what fans wantedfuck youmost DMC5 buyers have no idea what the fuck DMC even is, god I hate crapcom dronesthat said I agree about NG
Please the reason of why people love DMCV is thanks to the shitfest of donte may cry and people would take anything over that shitfest of game.
>>737754752Because soulslike are rpg so you can beat enemies by grinding levels. There are also no combos so it's easier
>>737754752it turns out that having complicated movesets with dead simple enemies that require no engagement is actually very repetitive, you can just keep doing the same thing to beat any arbitrary enemy as they barely do anything and you just keep doing the same shit and never need to learn anything new.soulslikes moved complexity from the player to the enemies. the games are founded on enemy complexity, which means you actually need to engage with every single enemy, that every new enemy means you need to deal with them completely differently. this adds a lot of novelty to the game and keeps every fight freshif you actually understand the different design paradigms its pretty clear why soulslikes absolutely killed it and so many games are taking design notes from themit isn't just character action games that failed, all action games were doing so poorly and on a huge downward slump, people always thought these hack and slash style games had awful gameplay and were pure spectacle. character action was specifically trying to differentiate itself from most action games and say that the character had a deeper moveset, which was never the problem with action games, boring enemies was.
>>737778090>most DMC5 buyers have no idea what the fuck DMC even is, god I hate crapcom dronesDMC5 got popular with newcomers because fans loved it and spread the word, it was made with love and respect for the entire franchise. DmC was loved by lots of newcomers too but ultimately failed because it wasn't what the core fanbase wanted
>>737778489It sold well immediately because of the mongoloid hype and was quickly forgotten and anyone with half a brain can see it's nothing special at all and spit on the franchise. Fuck you.
>>737778605>and was quickly forgotten
>>737764874>well this single game doesn't do that awfully>it only makes you clear two stages before the real game begins at the end of stage 3so you couldn't even come up with a single example?
>>737778672>DMC5 selling more than twice the amount of Wilds despite being 6 years orderBased
>>737760091>>character action gamesWasnt this a term reddit invented like just 3 years ago? Sames as "soulslite" as an alternative to "soulslike" which was already irritating enough.What is it with gen zen autists that they need to run around with a label maker and tag every single sub-sub-genre? They do this for music, video games, aesthetic fetishization, eveything. Its getting more convoluted than MMIWG2SLGBTQQIA+BIPOC pronoun salad./v/ needs word filters to change the following words into "videogame":>metroidvania>soulslike>soulslite>blobber>scottformer>rougelite>character action
>>737777887>Character action is a genre that has too much gameplay and not enough story for your average normalfag.excusesage of empires 2 is still alive with over 20000 daily players
>>737778672
>>737777887NuGow is at its core a bloated action game diluted by """RPG""" elements, exploration, shitty story with tons of exposition and walkie talkie sequences and collecting useless garbage (aka loot).
>>737754752restrospectivelynioh 1 and 2 were such a dogshit pieces of slog shit to play i dont know how i put 800 hours into the first gamecant even bother to finish game 2 and than the 15 difficulties after thatits so boring and punishing, ninja gaiden black wasnt such a gigantic chip damage dogshit and had actual cool moves for the katana instead of it being just a parry fishing spam high stance move over and over just to do any damagewhat a garbage seriesalso nonexistent build variety for 1 so you cant even argue its a good looter game
>>737779207>nioh 1 and 2 were such a dogshit pieces of slog shit to play >i put 800 hours into the first gamethe fuck is wrong with you lmao, I got bored after the frog boss
>>737777979Halfway through my third playthrough now and I've pretty much learned how to deal with the remake's bullshit. Leers and aggravation hardly even bother me on Nightmare anymore, and stealth sequences are basically free points now. It does sort of suck replaying side stories more than once since you need to in order to unlock endings, but aside from occasionally getting out-fucking-skilled by random ghosts I'd almost call the game cozy at this point. The annoying enemy habits are challenges that you eventually learn how to overcome. To be fair though, I do think a blind start to the game leaves you feeling too underpowered up front. It does take a few hours and some upgrades for the game to start really feeling playable, and that is a genuine flaw. Gets good once you get something going though.
>>737779450i liedapparently i only played 500 hours according to steammbto answer you question, i wanted to play a bow build and the only good bows drop in the abyss floor 150 which is 400 hours into the game if you arent a speedrun tranny
>>737779581still kinda crazy but at least you had a goal distracting you from your apparently unenjoyable experience
>>737779650yeah, it was completely pointless. I think i might have shit taste
>>737754752>How did character action games failToo difficult. They require skilled play and technical accuracy to perform well. It will always be easier for a most casual sort of game to capture a bigger audience.
>>737767809This
Ninja Gaiden 4 was a fun game. Wuchang was a fun game. I like video games.
>Ninja Gaiden 3 RE and Ninja Gaiden 4>I can play all characters in all levels as part of Chapter Challenge>DMC4SE and DMC5SE>I'm forcefully split between characters and only Vergil can go through the full game by himself. If you don't have a PC to use mods, you're fuckedStill mad.
>>737754752Dmc was never competing with souls, it's a tony hawk game with swords. I'm surprised capcom never embraced that and kept on pretending DMC was a normal combat oriented action game.
I felt so much whiplash after learning Vergil didn't really sit on a plastic chair
NG4 had really bad marketing. Marketing is all you need to win these days.
>>737754752as someone who loves character action genere and played nearly all the big games, the devs need to come up with some new shit we are at a point where we have like a dozen peak "traditional" character action games, which makes getting another solid one don't make such a big splash. Same with genres like beat em ups or shmups. the same actually goes for soulslikes too. Back then mediocre games like the first Lords of the Fallen could sell several millions, now even solid ones like Last Berserker underperform. Elden Ring and Nioh3 are already trying with open world stuff to spice things up.Kamiya was the only director who constantly tried to make new unique action games ever since he made dmc, which is what we need more of
>>737783741>Elden Ring and Nioh3 are already trying with open world stuff to spice things up.>to spice things upMore like, to follow trends. Open worlds are terrible for melee combat oriented action games.
>>737754752>How did character action games fail,it's called Juggleslop
>>737782734
The only reason DMC works is because of the style bar. If you're not motivated to fill it, it's not really fun at all. Bayonetta is garbage because the moves are framed around memorizing long input sequences rather than the DMC build-your-combo style.Replaying levels over and over trying to get a higher score is mostly outdated at this point, people just want to play levels once or twice and have them be fun. The lack of progression systems in the games means no one except extreme autists are going to replay levels as there's no "reward" for getting better at the combat system.
I have never played ninja gaiden
>>737784942its not worth it
>>737784820>Replaying levels over and over trying to get a higher score is mostly outdated at this pointThe levels are just boring. Personally I never replay the campaigns of DMC after getting all secret upgrades. I just simply jump into bloody palace because that's where all the good stuff is. And DMC 5 levels don't even have a timer.
>>737777149Gigatrvke.
>>737754752>Dynasty Warriors still on topBased
>>737767506>Now imagine if DMC hadn't created this autistic arcade format where you play the same shit 50 times and actually made a game that was as long as a souls game and got you to a 4th playthrough new game +++ skill level on a single playthrough. That is closer to how sekiro functions as its a middle ground between the two and surprise surprise, despite the more limited play style it's probably the most widely and highly regarded stylish action adjacent game ever made.You fucking idiot you could have mentioned Nioh, it's right there on the list, but no you had to mention the game that gives you zero skill expression
>>737779207>just a parry fishing spam high stance move over and over just to do any damageHoly fucking skill issue
I wish horror games were more popular. Just finished Fatal Frame 2 Remake and I cried.
>>737773580Because it was meant to have a CaC, but the decided to pull it last second for some reason. Probably because the dynamic of the CaC and the companion CaC would be nearly identical to Rise of Ronin's character dynamic
>>737784334>Open worlds are terrible for melee combat oriented action games.not advocating for that, tho the level designs in character action games are still lacking, the arenas you are fighting usually don't have interesting level designsNG for example has some cool environmental movement tech, but you are always just using it to advence through the corridors to the next arena. Why not have arenas where you actually have to wallrun While slicing enemieswhy not take notes from games like Shinobi or Strider with their wall running/climbing/sliding ideas, hell Dissidia had such a fucking cool movement tech that worked well with it's level designs. There is so much new shit they could do, but they just don't
>>737775568No, hate to tell YOU, but the "fujo" writing is rather accurate to the RotK book. Those fuckers talked like that all the time. But unironically in a non gay way. They don't want your dick bro. They just excited at your prowess and being a bro meant telling your bro that passionately. Not their fault your cracking boners over it
>>737774873I couldn't stop laughing when I got this scene since she's already married to Kongming here. I wish KT would just tear off the bandaid and make actual romances and altverses where you can fuck all the female (and male) heroes.
KT is being kept afloat by Atelier and the gacha DOA game.
>>737754752because autistic retards screech and harass devs into making their games more souls like or they're bad at their job
>>737777887Then why are games that understand that gameplay is king absolutely demolishing movie games?The rise of the movie game was due solely to institutional money flowing into the game industry at the height of graphics hype, which also happened to be an era where we didn't have all of these stock resources and the money was needed, resulting in a bunch of clueless troglodytes who don't understand videogames being put in charge. If the people in charge knew what they were doing, they wouldn't have started imploding as soon as viable alternatives that were gameplay-focused AND had decent graphics started appearing + people became less hyped about graphics.
>>737754752I like the more methodical 1 on 1 combat of Souls games, it makes each encounter more memorable than slicing through dozens of enemies at once
Heh, the thread survived until I arrived home.Here, >>737766120 the bike shorts of censorship on all of their glory.
>japanese ea gamesNO
>>737785304I didnt mention nioh because its shit
>>737785790>tho the level designs in character action games are still lacking, the arenas you are fighting usually don't have interesting level designsIt's the opposite. They start with initially somehow interesting level designs with potential and then devolve into punching bag simulators in giant circular arenas (which in practice are almost no different from open worlds) and sometimes straight corridors. Even early 3D melee action games like slashout or ninja:shadow of darkness had more interesting level layouts than the modern ones.
Souls games are just bad action games with a cope leveling mechanic attached to them to add an actually mostly fake sense of progression to keep the normalfag cattle happy. It really is nothing else.They bad action game on the mechanical level, but the shit is coated in a delicious cake of fake progression, exploration that is essentially meaningless as it's just leading to more mechanically bad fighting, and gearing systems that don't actually have a reason to exist as their stat don't have a huge effect in the difficult, at most a really piece of gear lets you tank 3 hits instead of 2, big woop.It's insane to me how people get so easily tricked with this genre.It's a lot more interesting to have actually interesting combat systems and not waste people time with leveling and exploration that doesn't and will never matter. The main interaction is combat and it's trash, that really should be the end of the story, 99% is just actual shit.
>>737785563Chou has that effect on people.
>>737766348because fromsoft is an overrated developer. they were a kusoge developer back in the day and only found success after the west started memeing souls videos. demon souls 1 was a flop and dark souls 1 was initially too until it came to pc with all the shitposts to viral the game.
>>737754752Did Ninja Gaiden 4 sell negative numbers? That overall franchise sales number is pretty much the same as the ones divulged before NG4 came out.
>>737754990In dmc4 the enemy were so few they had to make a game mode to spawn more enemies
Because they're boring to play.
>>737789821>demon souls 1 was a flop and dark souls 1Neither of them was a flop. You have to remember that the market was much smaller back then. And Sony didn't belive in demon's, so that one tutned out to be an especially surprising success.
>>737754990Post reeks of "I only played DMC5"I don't think this genre was ever about damage sponge really. DMC1 and 3 had fast enemy clears, NG is even more fast paced, the 3D shinobi games literally lets you oneshot entire bosses even.You are right about lacking difficulty, but again the punching bag thing is a mostly DMC issue, and even then try DMD mode and try to claim this again. They're generally the hardest genre and soulshit has nothing on them, souls games have an actual literal >beat this boss for me or at least let's gang up on him instead of going solomechanic, as well as leveling up mechanics. They're easier in general with more crunches you can rely on.>better level design and explorationlevel design in an action game and ALSO souls games should be about having fun enemy encounters first, not having more empty space to run through to find shit you shouldn't need. btw I genuinely believe Nioh 1 has better level design than Nioh 3, because the former plays around with enemy spawns to always keep levels and battle interesting and fast paced, while Nioh 3 is open world and shit which people think is better level design, but it ruins the main point of the game which is combat with ironically boring level. Thus, the level design is worse.Exploration for the sake of wasting the player's time fucking sucks. People are confusing good exploration with larger environments to run through, when in reality a game like Ninja Gaiden 1 and DMC1 were rewarding exploration too even if the levels are tiny. I would argue that finding an additional potion hidden somewhere in NG is more meaningful exploration reward than finding an useless ashe in Elden Ring after travelling 3 kilometers.
>>737754752See >>737790057
>>737789821That's backward. Armored Core is a kino fucking series of action games, so no, they were underrated, they made great fucking games back then and it's the souls craze that turned them into slop if anything.But Fromsoft still made one of the best action games in recent years, maybe THE best one, I really can't call them a slop company regardless.
>>737754990>they needed better level design and explorationI think NGB has great exploration and levels to go along with the combat. Can't say the same about the Devil May Shitter series where the backgrounds are always unidentifiable bloody rust.
>>737790668>they made great fucking games back then and it's the souls craze that turned them into slop if anything.Otogi 3 when?
>>737790715Now. I need it now (as long it's built on the first 2 games combat and not some souls spinoff, like Sekiro kind of was)
>>737790684>Boring city>Boring Military Base>Boring Sewers>Boring UndergroundsI'll conceede the Ninja Fortress and Hell are cool. But please, Black fucking wishes it had the same visual interest Mallet Island or Temen-Ni-Gru
>>737790684NGB has the best level design in the series. I think it matters for these kinds of games. Character-action games are just difficult to make. The genre embodies perfection. Music, characters, level design, weapons, UI all have to be working together towards ultimate fun.
>>737790061Too expensive, different developers, Team Ninja was hyping up Nioh 3, faith in Microsoft at an all time low, new main character. 6-7/10 game but that's not good enough for most people to care enough to buy.
>>737790845>Boring ahhhCompared to a game series where church ruins are a standard building block
>>737790845>>737790684You're all confusing: level design with level structure and environment design.
>>737764535keeek
>>737754752RPG stats slop
>>737764791>everyone agreesWhat an enormous cope kek, you are so funny.
>>737791323It's not even cope, it's straight up ignorance. Resident Evil very obviously has more mass market appeal than Silent Hill, it's not rocket science. Rocket launchers, maybe, but not rocket science.
Fatal frame 6 will be made the director has dirt on the company.
>>737755742That says more about you than anyone else. This is like with Pragmata haters telling on themselves
How is Koei Temo still alive
>>737769535It's fine, I just wish that the art style was a little darker because that modern sheen makes things more cartoony and bright than they probably should be
>>737766120>they will likely end up in prison in the future anywayhonestly why do you think that? usually it's the people who are flippant about people wanting eye candy that have skeletons in their closet
>>737792053Atelier series and the Dead or Alive gacha.
>>7377636063 million copies on launch month is great fucking sales considering the game was made on a shoestring budget by Itsuno's own admission(backtracking levels were planned from the beggining to account for it) but Inafune wanted the 6-8 million GoW was selling at the time.
>>737764643The main characters are too cute, feminine and vulnerable which goes against Western sensibilities which values masculine coded traits in women (abrasiveness, independence, etc). It's just too Japanese.
>>737792564>shoestring budget by Itsuno's own admissionHA HA HACrapcom didnt like Itsuno at all
>>737792053China and ESG money
>>737754752>Fatal Frame in the picture >No Fatal Frame sales numbers
>>737792827DMC5 really felt like the only time he was given real money to direct a game. Dragon's Dogma 1 and 2 are both obviously unfinished and half baked despite being a BLAST to play.
>>737754752I'm gonna be really disappointed if the only mainline DW entry we're getting since the absolute wreck that 9 was is just the 3 remaster and nothing else. No Empires title at all, damn shame
>>737792940>DMC5 really felt like the only time he was given real moneythe boring and repetitive levels in dmc 5 dont scream real money to megod of war 3 had real money behind not dmc 5
>>737767506>I've always thought JRPGs and stylish action deserved each others battle systems. Jrpgs are 80 hours long yet have a battle system that is boring after 10, character action has a battle system that lasts 100 hours but the game finishes after 10.What is Kingdom Hearts?
>>737787804It is kind of a goofy way to censor, but I personally am indifferent to it. As long as the horror and gruesomeness wasn't censored then that is more important to me. I don't think they ever would though. In fact, I can't think of any censorship where they tone down the blood and violence in modern video games.Regardless, the removal of costumes and making some costumes pre-order or early day access DLC annoyed me. And the unlockable costumes are 3 million points, each, like what were they thinking? I would have liked at least a fun costume as an unlockable reward that you don't have to use points on. I don't care if all the costumes return. It would have been nice if some returned as rewarsds. Or give us entirely new outfits. Give Mayu a Sadako outfit and Mio an Onibaba outfit. The Silent Hill f collab outfit is okay, but that isn't the same thing.
>>737793453>I can't think of any censorship where they tone down the blood and violence in modern video games.yeah because censorship is only ever done to tone down sexuality to appeal to the broader market, we still live in a world where extreme violence and cruelty is ok but a little titty is an affront against women everywhere
I believe in Atelier Supremacy.
>>737793732> yeah because censorship is only ever done to tone down sexuality to appeal to the broader marketBut japan and sometimes Chinese censor blood and gore all the time…
>>737794191I was talking about the western market but sure; different markets and different sensibilities, I suppose.Doesn't change the fact that it's stupid either way
>>737754752Samurai warriors bros.....
>>737791743I've long wondered if this was the case. Makoto Shibata and Keisuke Kikuchi fucking know something, they both keep getting away with it.
>>737793759I believe in Atelier time limit supremacy.
>>737755868>I don't get why it didn't sell betterBecause remaking 2 was a retarded attempt to pull a SH2R despite Fatal Frame 2 not being known outside its bubble. I'm not saying remaking 1 would've been a huge hit but it would've at least marketed as an entry point better.
>>7377973012's arguably the best entry point. It's certainly the most widely well regarded entry, but 1 is also somewhat infamous for its difficulty. Personally, that's why I think it's the best one.
>>737797449>2's arguably the best entry pointMaybe but my thinking is as simplistic as there being a 2 in the name will make autists like me not want to touch it since the first game isn't available. I personally already played 1 so it's whatever to me.
>>737755868>Fatal Frame>coomer franchise>WhatThere are more Fatal Frame games with sexualized content than those without it at this point, so yeah, the math would tell you it is. The newest 2 remake tried to steer away from that, but it didn't help making it more successful in the end, the subpar performance didn't help either.
>>737797656I'm fighting every urge I have to say the remake is warranted (it already had one on Wii, get to the first one already) but 2 does legitimately have a reputation as one of the best horror games ever made, and its story is probably the most engrossing one for an absolute newcomer to be won over by straight away. The first game deserves it more in my eyes, but 2 is inarguably the safer pick. It's not like 2 heavily anchors itself as a sequel to 1, unlike 3 which directly follows both of them.
>>737754752You know how people will brag about how they read books, and then when you ask what they DO read it's mostly Oprah's Book Club middlebrow stuff and self help?Same thing with character action. People love to brag about how they love 'hard games', but the instant you present them with something that has fixed levels and no broken meta strategies they start shitting themselves.
>>737765572I'll say they still consistently appear on most detailed recommended lists or top horror games of all time
>>737799470>You know how people will brag about how they read booksThat's a bragging point? I'd just call that a general statement. It's like bragging that you watch television or drive a car. It's just so common that I wouldn't think it is worth bragging about.
>>737754780fipbip
>>737799606>That's a bragging point?Sadly, it is. The cultural bar is THAT low now.
>>737785947Your custom self insert MC could put babies in the ladies during some of the Empires games.
>>737793759Based
>>737766120Mio and Mayu look amazing in the remake. A shame about the upskirts and higher chestline, but I'm not really a gooner so I'm mostly indifferent. In fact I'd say FF5 was TOO distracting because everyone was so fucking sexy and hot.
>>737754752Can't wait for DoA7 to flop soft.
