What exactly makes video games not art?
monetization goes before the actual game partthey can ship half-working garbage but you can bet your ass that the in-game store will be functional
They're products first and foremost.
Nothing.But what makes them a bad medium for art in general is the all-present expectation that you'll be fighting a lot of enemies. When every story you tell needs to have a Rambo-tier superkiller as the player, you're naturally very limited.
>>737757587That's just objectivity not true. Plenty of beautiful stories can be done with little to no combat
>>737757439Is Candy Land art because the board is illustrated?
>>737757557So was art
>>737757439Intent.Just like with statues and paintings, some of them were made with a monetary purpose first and passion second.If the creator(s) who makes the game does it for the sake of the art first and monetary gain second, then it's art.
>>737757714I know, but that's generally not the expectation. For example, even here on /v/ people had massive spergouts over Subnautica not having guns.
"art" is a meaningless buzzword
>>737757868So basically only William Turner
having multiplayer
>>737757439If video games arent art neither are movies
I'm sure Ebert would revoke the art pass for movies by now if he lived to see the wave of slop.
>>737757973been around a bit long to be a buzzword, genius
Explain how this is not art.
I wouldn't call esports art, but I'm struggling to rigourously define why notany story-driven single player is undoubtedly 'art', regardless of its qualitybut what about minecraft? is that itself art? are the creations people make in it art?my conclusion: who cares
>>737758237Game sucks
>>737757952Because the "people" here barely play anything that could be considered art. As much as they complain about zoomers everyone here is too ADHD to actually sit down and read a good narrative.On a side note anyone saying monetization has anything to do with art is retarded. The most famous artists in the world were comisisomed numerous times for some of the most well renowned pieces on the fucking planet. Movies are money forward projects, music often is too.
>>737757439(You), art is subjective
>>737758237because it's a computer program duh
>>737758350>sit down and read a good narrative>good narrative>gameslol
>>737757439when they aren't outer wilds (2019)
hooray it's the most popular semantic argument across history - what is artbet we'll crack it this time!
>>737757439stop caring what nonwhite apes/ miserable nihilists on 4chan sayif a game makes you feel emotional and think about your life, someone elses life, or deep thought about a concept no matter how abstract it is, it's art>>737757868this too kinda, it's not easy to pull off something genuinely good that makes you think about yourself or life in general with money in mind>>737758237it is and only nonwhites/whites with master's degrees that can't even get hired at mcdonalds or walmart think otherwise
>>737758907I'm not listening to your brown take
>>737757439They're exclusively interactive entertainment. The criteria by which you judge art aren't the same as those by which you judge videogames. This is non-negotiable. >>737757501Art can be and is actually made with a profit incentive.
>>737758907you are confusing 'bad art' with 'not art', and 'art' with 'good art', oldest mix-up in the book
>>737757439According to dictionary "art" can be easily defined as anything made by a *human* that can provoke some kind of emotion or reaction.Seeing as how video games are made exclusively by pajeets, chinks and blacks/moids (and to lesser degree AI) they do not qualify.
>>737759018>This is non-negotiable.lol, lmao even
>>737757439Too hard for critics.
>>737758983not one thing in that post is indicative of thatyou are just mad you got pinned perfectly
>>737758108>been around a bit long so has religion and it's a bunch of bunk
>>737759202You wrote 4chan on 4chin
>>737759307... is religion a buzzword?do you think 'buzzword' just means 'thing I don't like' or 'bunk'?
>>737759379jesus freaks use "satanic" as a buzzword for anything they don't like
>>737759360Send a phone or a digital camera to this address first https://maps.app.goo.gl/iFTT7CL3vhVJvyo57
>>737759307>>737759503>*tips fedora*
>>737759307That's *buuuuuurp* right Anonymorty, religion is all a lie made up for money, there is no *fart* God, Anonymorty, and if there is he's me. Life is just *burp* meaningless chemical reactions, nothing matters Anonymorty. Now let's go to the Floopydroop Nebula and score some space crack from the Poopooturdywurdyhairybuttholeians. Wubba lubba dub duuuuuuub!
>>737758467>a good narrative >bookslol
>>737759802 I'm clearly talking about porn movies. What gave you the idea of books having good narrative
>>737759550>>737759604god doesn't exist. grow up
>>737757439Being interactive
>>737759018>Art can be and is actually made with a profit incentive.yeah sure, some of the greatest art was commissioned even, but I'm yet to see an ""art"" form where the profit comes first to the point that the game can be shut down like some disposable trash once it's not profitable enoughI don't see movies or books disappear just because they underperform or the new thing was made so it might hurt projected sales expectationsthe definition says>Art is the conscious use of skill, imagination, and creative imagination to produce works that evoke emotion, ideas, or beautynow go on and tell me where is the art part in some gachaslop (some of the most popular games right now, quite representative of the medium) and other games where the whole point is FOMO and predatory microtransactions, the only emotion they want to evoke is you being jelly of people who own shinier stuff than you, casino-ass tier manipulation
>>737759896Do you have proof of that?
>>737759895Touche
>>737760082do you have any proof that spiderman is not real?
>>737760173>the critical analysis is that I hate men
>>737759896Whoops, fucked up the face, must be all the space crack. I'M SPOILER RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK! WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUUUUUUUB!
>>737759958I'm sure there have been lost movies and books because no one cared enough
>>737757439Games are art, the highest form of art involving writing, illustration, music, cinematography, animation, 3D, programming and optimization, game design, and so on. Period.>>737757501>>737757557Do you think that artists were doing it for free, hundreds years ago?
>>737757439Getting large quantities of money from the movie industry. >>737758368Excrement smeared on a canvas isn't art. >>737760173>By critical analysis I mean we're getting rid of Deus Ex for South of Midnight. Enjoy your safe corporate product. If a game meets inclusivity metrics it is art. Jaw dropping statement.
>>737760578>Excrement smeared on a canvas isn't artExactly, it is subjective to (you). Now you get it
>>737760453That's not the point, we can't keep a game made last year but we still have literary classics from thousands of years ago, today it's much harder to lose a movie or a book because anyone can make a digital copy of it, which is harder with video games where someone might need to backup hundreds of GB of essentially slop to preserve them.Video games can be art and they fulfill all the requirements (evoking emotions, requires ability and shit) but they way how the industry currently handles them is the actual issue, that's my point.
>>737757439Insofar as games are games, they're culturally relevant pastimes whose relevance depends on the time and place. People who are unable to extend the definition of "game" to encompass traditional games like "sports" are too stupid to understand this. Every normalfaggot knows the art of a game is in how it's played. The materials involved in the game can be well crafted, but the art of chess isn't measured by the board being marble or wood. Somehow though, when it comes to video games, the application of skill to a game, the competitiveness, the enjoyment of shared cultural associations with your peers and community, bounces right off the thick skulls of normal-oids.But that's only half of what people get wrong. Video games are much more than just a new medium of games, the virtual format is practically a new dimension for artistic expression. If you started with Pong, a virtual representation of a ping-pong board, you can now do anything from creating a tennis pro simulator, to a comedy-themed cartoon tennis RPG, an action PvP game with alien tennis lords, and on and on. There's art involved in numerous ways, above and beyond what other mediums are capable of, plus it's a game. The fact alone that people call a narrative medium "not art" should say everything you need to know. People who are concerned with real art are either in the top 2% of readers in society or they're larping.
>>737760747You'll need to wait thousands of years to see if classics are preserved for that long
>>737757439Money
>>737760292Answer the question
What exactly makes cat posters such low quality posters?Anime and frog anons take several seats cause you have been dethroned
it's interactive
>>737760874But we already have the capacity and capability so that we don't have to casually wait thousands of years.Again that's not the point and it's an entirely different topic.
>>737761019What is the point?
>>737760927no, I don't have proof of something that's not real. that's sort of how proof works
>>737761060>no I don’t have proofGot it, so your claim holds no weight
>>737760817your mother will be raped by 10000 pigs and then all your loved ones will be fed to the pigs.Only then, you will be covered in milk and honey, and given to the flies.
>>737761292not if i have immunity dog
>>737757439For one all live service games cannot be art. You cannot be art, and a service at the same time. Restaurants and hotels are not places for artists, a cook who treats the food as art rather than something the customer eats is not going to survive in the cooking world.
>>737761204I have the exact same amount of proof for god existing as you do, which is zero
>>737761056that video games are pretty much the only art form out there that is at the mercy of the industry and devs turning into garbage designed only with fast returns in mind and casino-ass style predatory microstransactions taking the precedence over the creative output or the game itselfthere's a very distinct line between>hey bro here you go take 5 billies makes us a game *wastes it all on scanning the feet of hollywood actresses*and>hey bro your budget is 300 millies, we can't risk it so just remake some successful game from 20 years ago, don't foget the yellow paint and AI assets for our quick cashgraband neither of the two are desirable
why would you want vidya to be art
>>737761845Are you saying there wasn't overblown art commissioned in the past just to show how pompous someone was?
>>737762110>Are you sayingeach and every time people say this you just know that anon is about to twist and misinterpret your wordsno anon, that's clearly not what I said and you keep straying off topic for some unknown reason missing the tree for the forest
>>737757439the players dont treat it as such, they only care about games as products
>>737762210You just gave two examples of why games aren't considered art because they can be overly expensive for the sake of being expensive and for reusing tired tropes, didn't you just do that? The same happened with art>each and every time people say this you just know that anon is about to twist and misinterpret your wordsMaybe learn to better talk your point across the screen if that is a common occurrence for you
>>737762305Movies and music aren't art either then because normies only listen to nigger mumble rap, right?
>>737757439art is something you make that someone else likes.videogames can be art no problem.
>>737762487>You just gave two examples of why games aren't considered art because they can be overly expensive for the sake of being expensivethat's not what I said (I made quite literally the opposite point btw)>Maybe learn to better talk your point acrossnot sure how shifting the blame on me for your poor reading and comprehension skills helps but whatever>if that is a common occurrence for youit's not because I'm writing in simple basic english (admittedly with grammatical errors giving away my ESL ass from a mile away)
>>737759503why are you incapable of following a line of reasoning
>>737763009300 million for a game reusing what has been proven to work in the past isn't overblown?
>>737763008so a lasagna is art
>>737763249Calm down Garfield.
>>737763347nobody made mondays, so they're not art
>>737763189most of it is just wages, unironically 60-80% of that figure just goes to that, the games themselves are not very expensive (see re-using bought assets and AI slop)
>>737757439That most games are slop with no creative impetusThis includes 99% of all indie artsy type gamesThere are definitely games that COULD be artbut so far the industry is not anywhere near that level of craftIronically Nintendo at their peak was closer to actual art than any western le2deep4u indie shit
>>737763472also it's common that half is just marketingso 300 millies (if that's the actual total), 50% goes for marketing, of the remaining 150 more than half is just wagesis the math mathing?
They are lot
>>737763472>most of it is just wagesJust like everything not made out of some rare material and reliant on skilled labor like artists or something maybe?
I honestly don't call video games "art" and don't want it to be "art" since every single game created with intention of creation "an art" rather than something fun to play turned into pretentious, boring, awful piece of turd. Every single one. Story, atmosphere, graphic style are all elements of creating engaging and fun to play game but fun component is the most important, the purpose that shaped the final product.
>>737763895>if i don't like it, it's not artwhy are you people so fucking stupid
>>737764009Why are you? That was not the mesaage behind my post.
>>737757439Gacha gook slop made to milk autists of every penny of their autismbux with gambling for jpgs automatically invalidates vidya as an art form. This includes anything else like it - microtransactions, day 1 editions, season passes, battle passes, loot boxes, F2P garbage, pre-order bonuses, all the endless systems that turns gaming into nothing but predatory, capitalist dogshit that's sole purpose is to make the most amount of money possible. There's infantile worthless movies, books, television, etc but they all don't do any of the shit video games do that makes vidya simply a service to make money, stripping it of any right to be called art.
>>737757439"art" is just a wordand videogames don't have to be artbut they could also be, depending on your definition of "game" and "art"
>>737764072>There's infantile worthless movies, books, television, etc but they all don't do any of the shit video games do that makes vidya simply a service to make money, stripping it of any right to be called art.You are delusional. You just described the entire concept of Hollywood.
>>737761941Gaymers want vidya to be art because they want to believe that the thing they're passionate about and have and will spend thousands and thousands of hours/dollars on isn't a complete waste of time.
>>737764064>mesaage
>>737757439They're mass produced multimedia.>so are moviesMovies aren't art either.
>>737757439bing bing wahoo
>>737757439The people that actually decide what's art and what isn't just use it for money laundering. Art is just doublespeak for pedophile bloodmoney commodity item nowadays pretty much. Its pointless to navel gaze about it and pretend like we're not twohundred years removed from the arts being a real thing.
>>737764630There are no brown people in Poland.
>>737757501>monetization goes before the actual game partI do agree there is a difference between art made soley for expressing a vision and art for profit (including creating someone else's vision with as much earnesty as you are capable of), however even if some degree of soulful expression or conveyance of a message is lost, that does not disqualify it for being art. In the world of the Simpsons someone had to write Itchy and Scratchy to be entertaining, even if it's a vehicle to capture young audiences. Even if Poochy is an adhoc myopically written formula insert someone did put effort and vision into his design, that is artistic skill, merit, quality, and expression occurring. Poochy is still someone's art (in the world of the Simpsons, I doubt anyone here would agree with that and feel Poochy as a Simpsons character is void of artistic merit)
>>737757439nothingevery piece of media now is just goyslop so you cant call anything ""art"" anymore, including video gaymes
>>737765235Cool, now try again without the antisemitism.
>>737757439art doesn't waste your life it's a one time experience unlike modern western video games.
>>737765294no
>>737765316>art doesn't waste your lifehahahahah, have you seen the average self-proclaimed "artist"?
You would have to be genuinely retarded or a contrarian to say video games aren't art. Every argument I've seen against it boils down to "well there are shitty games made for profit so games aren't art" which is like saying movies aren't art because capeshit exists, or books aren't art because there are mass market paperbacks that appeal to female rape fantasies. That said, "art" does not mean "good", and if a dev says he is making his game to be art, it's probably going to be shit, but it's still art.
>>737765316>art doesn't waste your life
>>737765425>>737766065t. consumer
>>737765731bad movies are still art. good videogames aren't. games aren't art. if you can "beat" it, it is not art.
>>737766173My friend, good art can have 0 impact on your life even if it was evocative and you loved it. Pursuing beautiful things can and often consumes the lives of many.
>>737766284>if you can "beat" it, it is not art.There are plenty of games with no win condition. Are those games, and only those games, art?
>>737766284"Beating" is a definition of completion. You don't beat a movie the same way you don't watch an entire book, you read it, but all of these types of art are being completed. Your arbitrary reasoning does not sway me nor seem practical.
