Even if you disregard the R=U theory, Rinoa is still the last Sorceress alive, and she promised never to let anyone else endure the same fate.
>>737762302All women in FF8's world have the potential to become a sorceress, it's a part of Hyne's bargain to troll humankind
>>737762630That may be true, but don’t forget the lore. Their magic could be Hyne himself possessing them, much like Jenova in the previous title.
All female deuteragonists are always princesses or magic users, which means that the deuteragonist and canonical love interest of Cloud in FF 7 is Aerith and not that fat bitch Tifa.
>>737762961Rinoa feels like a blend of Aerith and Tifa, though.
>>737762961>be the love interest>die not even halfway through the gamewould make more sense if she got resurrected or Cloud died too
>>737763425Cloud spends the entire rest of the game talking about her and there's a whole movie in which she's still with him as a ghost and he rides into the sunset as he watches over.He's fine with his ghost gf.
I just realized that her designs in the new Dissidia Duellum include two rings.
Been playing the OG japanese PS1 release, no junction exchange is suffering
>>737763579>there's a whole movie in which she's still with him as a ghostand at the end her and her only confirmed boyfriend essentially wave goodbye to Cloud and return to the Lifestream together
>>737763830>return to the Lifestream togetherThat's not how the Lifestream works lorelet, Zack dissipates into it. Aerith is immortal and is literally on the fields watching cloud at the end of the movie. Did you even watch it?
>>737762302>Rinoa is still the last Sorceress alive,Wrong. The game tells you there's many more in hiding.
>>737764019>That's not how the Lifestream worksAnd yet AC decided that Cloud should see Aerith and Zack leaving together while Cloud mentions that he's no longer alone. Just what could it all mean?
>>737764359That the two most important dead people for Cloud are still in his life despite dying?
>>737764117While the game leaves a tiny sliver of theoretical ambiguity regarding the rest of the world, narratively and mechanically, the story treats Rinoa as the final vessel for the Sorceress power in the present era.The lore states that when Hyne fled from humanity, he split his power and hid it within various women across the world. Because of this, it is entirely possible that there are other, lesser Sorceresses living quiet, hidden lives who never got involved in the global conflicts featured in the game.However, the game makes it clear that the powers held by Edea, Adel, and eventually Rinoa are the "main event." If there are other Sorceresses out there, their power pales in comparison to the concentrated, god-like magical battery that Rinoa has become.She has essentially become a walking weapon of mass destruction, carrying the combined, hollowing weight of Hyne's magical power.
>>737763824Is that really what any port or mod looks like?
>>737764470>dead people>in his lifeThe whole point of the movie is that he's stuck in the past over guilt for no reason and this was supposed to be him finally letting go of that. Though I guess I'm screaming into the void because for some people it's imperative that Cloud suffers eternally if Aerith is dead.
>>737764616No it's the original
>>737764827>letting go of that.Yeah he let's go of that to the point he rides alone into the sunset while Aerith watches over him instead of going home to marry Tifa? lmao
>>737764492>tiny sliverIt outright states there are other sorceresses in the world. This kills the theory. It was fundamentally decided by the writers that there are many more.
>>737765157Theoretically, that is. Either way they didn't receive the combined power of Edea, Adel, and Ultimecia.
People still question the obvious.
>>737762961tifa's fat tits won
>>737766360> The only people who like Tifa are porn addict incels with an asian fetish and breasts obsessionProving time and time again she's a shit character and her fans are all incels lmao
>>737762302How are sorceresses special in a world where anyone with a GF can do magic? Always seemed like some ludonarrative dissonance.
>>737766550>only 'cels like some nice big tit on cute girlngmi
>>737766847How come not a single Tifa fan has a girlfriend?
>>737766550>being this gay
>>737766892> I am very straight!> But i've never been with a woman i just masturbate to some ugly chinese fictional characterBravo incel.
>>737766996Weird projection you're doing here.
>>737767119I ask again, how come not a single Tifa fan has a girlfriend?
>>737767154How would you know? It's not like someone who comes here to be a shitstain for attention actually talks to other people.
>>737767154I do have a girlfriend. Her name is Tifa
>>737764981>he rides alone into the sunset while Aerith watches over himWhat's wrong with a spirit watching their friend go to work?
>>737767254Straight men are so lonely and sexless they call fictional videogame women their real life girlfriend lmao.
>>737766875Max Dood has a wife and kid and was essentially the face of Tifa in Tekken
Aerith is a dead whore
>>737762302>non-canon titsI hate them.
>tifa simp falseflagging sad state
>>737762961But they're never prostitutes, Aerith being a prostitute cancels out her being a magic user.
This is now a ff7 thread
>>737767154I'm currently married to a big titty goth mommy and the following things are true:Tifa > Aeris (No idea who this retcon Aerith person is)Quistis > RinoaPyra > MythraAsuka > ReiChun Li > CammyTits > Ass
>>737768087>I'm currently married to a big titty goth mommyIn your incel head do you think if you say it on 4chan it will ever become true?
>>737768087Terrible, only one correct is Asuka > Rei
>>737764827Reminder that for Cloud to let go of his guilt for Aerith she needs to literally manifest physically and talk to him.Had she not been a magical creature capable of doing that Cloud wouldn't find the will to continue living.
>>737767904It does read like a falseflag. But when it comes to final fantasy you never know, I'm still convinced the yoshida and Barry shit is one person answering to themselves.
>>737768379i.e. forced drama so a movie could be madeFunny how his guilt disappears once he's cured of Geostigma
>>737768528You mean after Aerith lifts his guilt because she loves him that much and wants him to continue living while he had already given up on himself?
>>737766830Everything that Squall, Zell, and the rest of SeeD do is Para-Magic (artificial magic). Humans in the world of Final Fantasy VIII possess absolutely zero innate magical ability. They cannot generate it, and they cannot naturally hold it.Dr. Odine invented Para-Magic by studying Sorceress Edea. When Squall traveled back in time to the orphanage, he told Edea about SeeD, Garden, and the fight against Ultimecia. But Edea realized a massive problem: ordinary humans cannot fight an immortal, reality-bending demigod. They needed magic. To solve this, she swallowed her pride and traveled to Esthar to work with the brilliant-but-amoral Dr. Odine. By allowing him to study her innate Magic, she gave him the biological data he needed to synthesize the Guardian Force Junction System and Para-Magic.Once the technology was perfected, Edea and Cid secured it. This is why Balamb Garden is the only mercenary academy in the world that inherently uses the GF Junction system. She literally reverse-engineered her own god-like power so that her future "children" (Squall and the other SeeDs) would have the exact weapons they needed to survive Ultimecia.To cast Para-Magic, a human must use a Guardian Force as a biological battery (Junctioning) to process the energy, and they must physically pull the spell energy from the environment or monsters (Drawing).Para-Magic is strictly limited to elemental attacks, healing, and basic status effects. It is a tool. You have a finite stock (e.g., 100 uses of Cure), and when you run out, you are just a person with a sword again.Sorceresses, meanwhile, do not use Para-Magic. They wield true Magic. Because they carry the remnants of the creator god Hyne, they are biological anomalies. They do not need Guardian Forces to cast spells, and they do not need to "Draw" magic from the environment. They generate it internally. More importantly, their Magic fundamentally alters reality in ways Para-Magic cannot even fathom.
Rinoa is just an inferior Tifa with tiny tits and used goods
Tifa's a cuckold seething that Cloud loves a dead body more than her lmao
>>737768979She is more like a childish Aerith (which makes sense considering she is 17). And she is very cute
>>737768979>implying a female bartender hasn't taken miles of cock
>>737768160>incel incel incel incelNo matter how many times you call other men incels women won't reward you with sex for it.
>>737768826>Humans in the world of Final Fantasy VIII possess absolutely zero innate magical ability. They cannot generate it, and they cannot naturally hold it.Even basic Galbadian sorcerers cast spells and I doubt all of them have GFs.
>>737768979She has more in common with Tifa than Aerith.
>>737769708Incels proving time and time again to them asian women all look the same but they still fetishize them
>>737768767>Aerith lifts his guiltShe literally tells him earlier to stop being a bitch and he keeps on being a bitch until just before he goes to save Marlene and Denzel and it's Tifa calling him a bitch that got him to do it.
All main FF heroes get paired with their main villains, Squall gets paired with the only female villain in the series, ergo Squall is the only heterosexual male hero in the franchise. This is the objective truth you can't refute it.
>>737769665The game explains that as well. If you use the Scan spell on a standard G-Soldier (Galbadian Soldier) early in the game, the in-game text explicitly hands you the answer: "Galbadian soldier that uses magic with a sword. Strong enough, but nowhere near as strong as any SeeD member."They do not have GFs junctioned to their minds. Instead, the Galbadian military infuses Dr. Odine's Para-Magic directly into their weapons and bionic armor. When a Galbadian soldier casts Fire, they are essentially just pulling the trigger on a magic-infused piece of hardware.Now you might question, if Galbadia can just build magic swords, why does Balamb Garden force its students to use dangerous Guardian Forces? The answer is scale and physical enhancement.Because Galbadian Soldiers rely on their swords to cast Para-Magic, their physical bodies are still just normal, vulnerable humans. They cannot draw magic into their own minds/souls, they cannot store it, and they cannot use it to augment their physical strength.By junctioning a GF, a SeeD turns their own body into the technological catalyst. This allows them to physically absorb hundreds of spells and junction them directly to their muscular and nervous systems. A SeeD doesn't just cast Fire, they junction 100 Firagas to their physical strength, allowing a teenager to punch a mechanical spider tank to death.
>>737769708Yea if you go by visual design sure, but not by anything else. So does Garnet for example
>>737770326Balamb Garden essentially holds a global monopoly on Guardian Forces. Outside of the Garden network, the broader world is actually deeply critical and terrified of direct GF usage because of the memory-destroying properties.Galbadia and Esthar simply took the safer, mass-produced route. They took Dr. Odine's Para-Magic theories, built them into rifles, swords, and robotic armaments, and handed them to a massive standing army.Balamb Garden chose quality over quantity. They weaponized the human mind by using GFs to bypass the need for magical hardware entirely, creating biological super-soldiers that outclass standard military tech on every level.For such a convoluted game, FF8 does hold a deep lore.
>>737770242Why they gave him a sash in newer designs? Some attempt to make him look like a samurai or something?
>>737770556Why did you delete your post and remove paragraphs to make it harder to read?
>>737770796I dislike spacing the text, so i only do it when necessary. I hadn't realized i spaced the original text that much.
>>737768826Remember, the cost of magical power in the game is memory loss, and even Sorceresses aren’t immune to it. While GFs only block parts of a person’s memory, a Sorceress’ magic gradually erases their memories on a much larger scale over time.That's where all the hollowed shell imagery in the game comes from and alludes to.
>>737771141That's why Ultimecia could well be Rinoa, after being a Sorceress too long caused her to lose her memories
>>737767154and you do right?
>FFX and IX got new artWhy does SE hate VIII so much
>>737771141Kazushige Nojima’s writing is rooted in a single psychological idea: a person is simply the sum of their memories. In Western fantasy, the "soul" is often seen as an eternal, divine spark that endures regardless of what happens to the mind, shaped by the Neo-Platonist influence on Western thought. In Nojima’s worlds, however, the soul and the memory are one and the same.If you alter a person's memories, you literally alter their identity (Cloud Strife assuming Zack's persona in FFVII).If you entirely erase their memories, they cease to be a person at all. They become a functioning corpse, or a "shell" (The Nobodies in Kingdom Hearts).For Nojima, the ultimate death isn't physical destruction. The ultimate death is forgetting who you are, who you love, and why you are fighting. That is why the imagery is so haunting. A shell is worse than a corpse because the shell is still walking around, suffering from the phantom pain of an identity it can no longer grasp.Tetsuya Nomura is fascinated by that imagery, by the physical manifestation of emptiness. He enjoys designing characters whose physical forms are hollowed out like cracking eggshells or hiding their faces by a veil of darkness as their internal anchor, their memory, slips away.At its core, this recurring theme is about the absolute terror of being alone. If you lose your memories, you lose your connections to everyone around you.
>>737772294I think it might be influenced by Twin Peaks, which was huge in Japan.
>>737771485Too bad that was never officially planned for the game itself
Are the other FF games still on sale?Should I buy them?Finally playing through the FF7 remake
>>737772294Squall is interesting because he struggles with both sides of that coin.On one hand he's clearly very troubled by the idea that Sis went away and seemingly forgot all about him in abandoning him.On the other he's also not that pleased by the idea of becoming this non-existent version of himself as a memory in other peoples minds.He wants define who he is by himself and live life the way he wants, without others to influence all that, but obviously what he wants changes over the course of the game.
>>737762302>Even if you disregard the R=U theorythe fucking creators literally said 'no'. This is Uncs first Indoctrination Theory kinda shit
>>737773487Picked the wrong image.
>>737773367They should all be on sale what with the golden week sale going on.
FF8 could have been the best fucking FF game if they didn't rush the back half and fixed some of the stupid story choices. R=Ultimecia being canon would be the cherry on top.Square deserved the fate of the merger for fumbling this and XenogearsPisses me off just thinking about it, but at least we got Uematsu at his best
In the original Japanese version of the game, moments where Rinoa and Ultimecia echo each other’s words occur more frequently. That’s why it feels like a crime that the official localization changed so many of Ultimecia’s lines.Here's an example:Rinoa: リノア「…やさしくない。やさしくない!」Edea (Ultimecia): イデア「現実は優しくない。現実はまったく優しくない」One possible translation that conveys the original intent could be:Rinoa: "...That's not kind. Not kind at all!"Edea (Ultimecia): "Reality is not kind. Reality is not kind at all."Instead, the official localization went with this:Rinoa: "...You're mean. MEANY!!!"Edea (Ultimecia): "This is reality. No one can help you. Sit back and enjoy the show."This happens a lot. It might make the read feel more natural or entertaining, but it strips away much of the original subtext.Aside from the instances lost in translation, there’s also my picture, showing how the “Commencement Room”, the first place we found ourselves in when Time Compression happened, turned out to be a recreation of the room in Deling City’s Presidential Residence. You could say Ultimecia recreated this space because it’s where she announced herself to the world after possessing Edea, but that overlooks the important fact that it’s also where Rinoa fell in love with Squall.Once again, the official localization stripped the room’s name of its poetic touch. In Japanese, the “Commencement Room” is called 始まりの部屋 (Hajimari no heya). A more literal translation that preserves the original intent would be “Room of Beginnings” or “The Room Where It All Began.”Though here it is understandable, the localization team likely chose the word "Commencement" because it acts as a clever double meaning. "Commencement" is a synonym for a "beginning," but it is also a direct callback to Disc 1, as that specific room in Deling City is where Sorceress Edea's "Commencement Ceremony" took place. Still the cleverness rob it so much of what is truly important about the room.
>>737772758I ain't taking canon from a guy who thinks balding is a hairstyle
>>737773980Here’s another example of Rinoa, whether in the game itself or in the Ultimania texts written by Nojima, mirroring Ultimecia’s words or vice versa. In this text, Rinoa happily exclaims, “SeeD, SeeD, SeeD!!!” Meanwhile, in the game, Ultimecia does the same when we first confront her in person, but with clear condemnation.
>>737774089It doesn’t stop there, at some point in the game, she also paraphrases Ultimecia’s dying words, or is it the other way around?
>>737774014Then get someone else on the dev team to explain what's canon then. What's that, no one else is saying anything? Looks like you got your answer.
In one of the pages I translated here she name-drops another boss theme: https://youtu.be/oW61WM0DDUA
>>737766176What the hell is this? Mobius?
>>737774418Look at what Rinoa is saying, she is once again, now this time in-game, pretty much name dropping the boss theme: https://youtu.be/SkOvIHtmN6U
Once again, Nojima’s Ultimania guide texts give the game a bit more context. This time, the focus is on that mysterious opening FMV.The prose reveals that the cinematic is actually a flash-forward to the game's climax, depicting Rinoa trapped within the terrifying void of Time Compression. As the phenomenon warps reality, it slowly robs Rinoa of her identity and memories. The only thing tethering her to existence is the faint, lingering echo of the promise she and Squall made in the flower field mid-game, that if they ever got separated, she would wait for him there.As doubt creeps in, Rinoa physically anchors her mind to the lion ring resting against her chest, the exact ring Squall lent her through Zell during the Galbadia Garden conflict. She channels the "great strength and pride" of the lion to keep her consciousness intact.Reacting to her mounting distress, the environment itself turns violently hostile. The warm flower field is eclipsed by a dark storm that the text describes as roaring like a "starving beast." This climate shift acts as a physical, antagonistic representation of Time Compression's crushing pressure. It also serves as a thematic link to Griever.Yet, armed with the resilience of the lion ring, Rinoa refuses to yield to the storm. Amidst the wailing wind, she unclasps her hand to release a single, pure white feather. Carrying her heart and her unwavering promise, this is the exact same feather we see drifting through the rifts of time in the ending to guide a lost, wandering Squall out of the darkness.This is all official material. In the opening FMV, we also clearly see Rinoa watching the events unfold right before her eyes as she finds herself in the "Commencement Room".
In the game, much of Rinoa’s dialogue acts as foreshadowing, with her and Ultimecia often mirroring each other’s words. Ironically, there are at least two moments in the game where Rinoa avoids talking about the future out of fear, yet here she is openly dreaming about it, almost like she’s having a "Premonition".https://youtu.be/vOsX0km3m3wThis contrasts with Squall, who tries to run from (or straight up forget) his past but is repeatedly haunted by dreams of it. In both cases, he brushes these moments off as mere dreams, though in truth they’re either reliving the past or, as here, catching glimpses of the future.I’ve already hijacked the thread enough as it is, but I feel that for just a fan theory, there are more hints of R=U, and trust me there are more that we can go over, than there are for Laguna being Squall’s father, not that the latter isn't canon.Oh, and those locations Rinoa listed? They also double as the places Ultimecia attacks in the game.>>737774543Yup. Moebius Final Fantasy, from the event The Sleeping Lion.
Here’s another interesting detail: when Ultimecia’s final form appears, she is surrounded by her iconic black feathers.But once you defeat that form, white feathers surround her as she’s undone by bursts of light.
>>737762961Everybody is a magic user in FF7.
>>737774183I don't care what the dev team says, anon.
was there any truth to the sorceress' power subtly manipulating the feelings of others around her? I seem to remember a theory floating around that they instinctively look for a knight (edea / seifer, rinoa / squall) as almost a bonded pair or something. Maybe that's why ulti doesn't have one; she's looking for squall after all.
I'm barely reading this thread. Nomura is a hack and should have been fired long ago.
but seriously why does galbadia garden have an ice hockey rink?
>>737775791For sorceresses' power manipulating the feelings of others, this is most clearly seen in Galbadia during when she's in power. If you talk to the citizens they're obviously out of whack with their opinions and reactions, and they clear up when she's gone, which they reference themselves, I believe.As to sorceresses looking for a knight, I think the most that is said or can be understood is that because sorceresses are almost invariably prosecuted if discovered they would tend to get someone who can guard them, so it kind of just works out that way. I don't remember there being anything said of them doing it instinctively as some inherent part of being a sorceress.
>>737768979Rinoa is all 3 FFVII girls in one>perky secretly serious girl with special magic powers>member of a resistance cell, becomes the main character's love interest>daughter of an important foreign leader
>>737776318>>737775791The necessity of a knight has absolutely nothing to do with physical combat or military strategy.A Sorceress inherits the overwhelming, god-like power of the creator deity of FF8. They can manipulate time, possess minds, and pass through solid matter. From a physical standpoint, they are completely untouchable. They do not need a bodyguard.However, their fatal flaw is that while their power is divine, their mental and emotional capacity remains strictly human.Like you said because of their immense, unnatural power, Sorceresses are universally feared, hated, and inevitably persecuted by society. This creates a crushing, inescapable isolation. Magic can achieve almost anything, but it cannot cure loneliness. A Sorceress can brainwash an entire army to serve her, but she cannot use magic to create genuine friendship, love, or trust.The Knight’s true function is to act as an emotional anchor. He is the one person who does not fear the Sorceress, who chooses to stay by her side, and who listens to her anxieties. He absorbs the psychological stress of being a global outcast. Without this anchor, the paranoia, isolation, and resentment slowly eat away at the Sorceress's mind until her human empathy breaks.Not to mention the memory loss, especially the kind of memory loss represented in Final Fantasy VIII, which accelerates when a person is isolated. If you have no one to share your history with, your past begins to blur.Even if the overwhelming magic of Hyne is slowly eroding the edges of a Sorceress's mind, a Knight continuously reinforces her core identity. He reminds her who she is, what she loves, and why she is human, effectively fighting the "hollowing" process through sheer emotional pull.
>>737776909nah she doesn't have kansai-ben like selphie does
>>737775456And that's the point
>>737776949This also makes Seifer's role incredibly tragic. Ultimecia names him her "Knight," but it is a hollow, dysfunctional title.Seifer views being a knight as a romanticized, militaristic "dream" of combat and glory. Ultimecia, conversely, views his "dream" as a delusion to exploit. Because they fundamentally misunderstand what a Knight and Sorceress are supposed to be for each other, they never form a genuine emotional bond. She never truly trusts him, and he entirely fails to protect her heart, leaving both of them completely isolated despite working together.Meanwhile you've the Headmaster Cid. From a military perspective, Cid is a terrible knight, he is indecisive, physically weak, and lacks business sense. But he possesses an unwavering kindness. That kindness was the only thing protecting Edea's sanity and keeping her from losing herself to the magic.This optional and easily overlooked dialogue provides more details about it.In the lore of this universe, the Knight is quite literally the only thing standing between a human woman and the hollow shell of a monster.
thread themehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1-CQxCeYbEsick awesome version btw
>>737776949You're completely bullshitting with this part. If sorceresses in most or even some instances had such power that they are untouchable then there would be no sense to the idea that sorceresses need to fear prosecution as they do, least of all Ultimecia and her understanding of it. If they have this unlimited power technically but any given sorceress can't consistently bring it to bear for any reason then for practical purposes that is the same as not having it.Clearly sorceresses' powers are not absolute in practice and they can end up getting fucked over if they're by themselves, for which having at least one person around that can kick ass or look out for carrots under a Sorceress memorial building can help.
>>737776976>FF7>Selphieanon....
>>737777821broke: sorceresses needs knights because [insert powerautism reason]bespoke: sorceresses needs knights because they're women
>>737777821The powers described are those displayed in the game.
>>737778125You read it again yourself
>>737778162The Drakengard option, an Intoner/Sorceress who doesn't regularly get dick from her knight slowly goes insane. Drakengard is also canonically linked to FF thanks to FFXIV. I like it.
>>737778642I wouldn't take FFXIV's theme park refences as canon
>>737778174The point is that knights mainly/only serving as an emotional tampon is also contrary to what is displayed in the game.We are made to understand that sorceress prosecution is such a big deal that a super bitch from the future wants to unmake all of reality in order to avoid it.While the moral support component of knights is obviously a thing, to say that them acting as actual protectors from outside threats is nonexistent or unnecessary is laughable, at least for a significant enough portion of sorceresses throughout time. That many of the the ones that got put on a stake ended up there mainly because them becoming sad or lonely made it so they couldn't summon the god level power available to them, as opposed to simply not always having that level of power due to differences between them, is stupid.
>>737762961Cool. Anyway I don't care about your autistic dislike of the best girl in the franchise
>>737762630>women>temperamental>bpd whores>throw tantrums over every small thing>potentially the strongest beings in the world>all as a joke from a male wizard that was mentally ill and wanted people to have a very bad timeWhy did he do this bros?The world of FF8 is dystopian af. Any magical whore can have a very bad day and fuck everyone over.
>>737778917Explain Seifer then.
>>737773367The originals are always free on Minerva. I've never not been let down by remakes. FF7R is fun, but it's a completely different game.
>>737773367>buylol, lmao even.Emulate them, all the best versions are on emulators.https://youtu.be/Pw4LPSEOMoA?si=5eTvhxYhx-Yi06ZQ&t=2013
>>737779183Cool optional fanfic scene.Reminder that Aerith is the default Golden Saucer date in both OG and Rebirth AND she's the canonical Rosa, so by taking Tifa with you to the play you literally are playing a non canon version HAHAHA
Did guys talk about the ring stuff?
>>737779709based yuffers she got the most personality
>>737779549>6 and V on S tierI love when they come out spitting fire.
>>737779907I also put Tactics on S tier but temporarily because its not in the list,Anyway.. FF needs the Job Class System. DESPERATELY.
>>737779709Aeris is the canonical Celes. 4 maps to 8 not 7.
Don't care, what a pretty bitch. Sorceress pussy in mouth.
>>737780450Reminder that Ultimecia is wearing what is essentially Julia's red dress.
>>737780450Rinoa is Ultimecia but from a timeline where their relaitonship failed o algo
bump
>>737783083qt
Ultimecia comes up to you and say this, what do you do?
>>737780942Ultimecia design is essentially a woman with feline traits, dressed in a red gown decorated with plumes reminiscent of a lion’s mane, as if Rinoa were trying to embody the look of both Squall and Griever.
>>737784490Avenge my father.
>>737780450
>>737773980I'm so angry at what the localization did with the translation of this game, specially so when it comes to the few lines Ultimecia has.Take that speech she delivers while possessing Edea in Deling City. There are so many cool little details in the original Japanese. She repeats Rinoa's words, references dancing, which not only explains why the crowd began moving like Michael Jackson but also ties back to Rinoa and Squall’s ballroom dance. There’s the clever twist of “dreams” into illusions or delusions, and most notably, she even manages to name-drop the game’s title in a way that really works.The localization raped all of that.
>he thinks he's a loremaster>he doesn't even know that III and VIII are set in the same world
You know Squall and Rinoa were almost brother and sister if you think about it
>>737785039Here's an attempt to give a more closely tied to the original version of the speech.Edea (Ultimecia): "What a foul stench..." Edea (Ultimecia): "You filthy, foolish wretches."Edea (Ultimecia): "Since time immemorial, we Sorceresses have lived within a fantasy. Edea (Ultimecia): "A foolish fantasy born of your own making."Edea (Ultimecia): "The Sorceress clad in frightening garments, cursing good, innocent people to death in cruel rituals. Edea (Ultimecia): "The terrifying Sorceress who burns green fields with merciless magic, and freezes your warm homes to ice."Edea (Ultimecia): "What pathetic nonsense."Edea (Ultimecia): "And now, learning that this terrifying Sorceress from your own delusions has allied with Galbadia, you breathe a sigh of relief?"Edea (Ultimecia): "Piling delusion upon delusion... who is it that is truly dreaming here?"Edea (Ultimecia): "Reality is not kind."Edea (Ultimecia): "Reality is not kind at all."Edea (Ultimecia): "Therefore, you fools! This is your only recourse.Edea (Ultimecia): "Take refuge in your own illusions!"Edea (Ultimecia): "I shall dance for you within that world of illusion.Edea (Ultimecia): "As the Sorceress who brings terror, I shall dance for all eternity."Edea (Ultimecia): "You and I... together, we shall bring forth the final fantasy. Within it, both life and death are but a sweet dream."Edea (Ultimecia): "The Sorceress and her fantasy, forever! And Galbadia, servant to the Sorceress, forever!"
>>737785814
>>737786793We appreciate the effortposting, R=U guy
>>737785039To be fair, until FFX the translator for any given FF game was given like 2 weeks to translate each game and they were given all the text out of order to translate
>>737786793Here's the neat twist from the original Japanese.Seifer (Disc 1, Dollet Mission):Seifer: "I love battles. I fear nothing. The way I look at it, as long as you make it out of a battle alive, you're one step closer to fulfilling your dream."Seifer (Disc 1, Dollet Mission):Seifer: "One of these days, I'm gonna tell ya 'bout my ROMANTIC dream!"Meanwhile you've Rinoa (Ultimecia) speaking to him:Rinoa (Ultimecia): "Find the legendary Lunatic Pandora, said to be hidden beneath the ocean. Only then shall the sorceress provide you with dreams again."Squall: (Rinoa! Where are you!? Answer me!)Seifer: "As you wish, Ultimecia."If you only play the English localization of Final Fantasy VIII, Seifer Almasy simply comes across as an arrogant bully whose obsession with a "romantic dream" makes him an easy target for a cartoon villain's mind control.However, in the original Japanese script, Seifer’s arc is a tragedy built entirely on a linguistic misunderstanding between him and Ultimecia. The English script translates everything as the word "dream," but the Japanese script deliberately uses two very different words to reveal that the Knight and the Sorceress are completely talking past one another.When Seifer talks about his romantic "dream" of becoming a Sorceress's Knight, the Japanese word he uses is yume.In Japanese, yume means a literal dream you have while sleeping, but it is heavily used to mean a goal, an aspiration, or a bright hope for the future. Seifer's yume is naive and heavily romanticized (inspired by the movie he watched as a child), but it is a positive, forward-looking ambition. He genuinely wants to be a hero who protects someone important.Ultimecia usage of "dream" does not operate on yume. She operates on gensou. Gensou translates to illusion, delusion, or an escapist hallucination. It has a distinctly negative, psychological connotation. It means seeing something that isn't real because you are refusing to look at reality.
>>737786865NTA, but I didn't know there was fanart of this theory. Feels pretty validating.
>>737787651>If you only play the English localization of Final Fantasy VIII, Seifer Almasy simply comes across as an arrogant bully whose obsession with a "romantic dream" makes him an easy target for a cartoon villain's mind control.He comes across that way in Japanese too.
>>737762302>Final Fantasy thread>Aerith fan starts spewing shitAt this point I'm starting to hate Aerith. Aerith is to schizos as Sonic is to autists.
>>737787651Which is why i translated every instance of "dream" here >>737786793 in a negative way, using "delusion" as a shorthand. That's because in this speech Edea (Ultimecia) is constantly using the word "gensou". For example:>"And now, learning that this terrifying Sorceress from your own "gensou" has allied with Galbadia, you breathe a sigh of relief?" The usage of the word "gensou" for "dream" tells us a lot about Ultimecia that is simple lost in translation. Ultimecia "dream" is actually a psychotic break, she wants to compress time and retreat into a hallucination where she can finally be in control. A stagnant, eternal gensou.The tragedy peaks when Rinoa (Ultimecia) commands Seifer to find the Lunatic Pandora, promising:>"Only then shall the sorceress provide you with dreams again."Seifer hears this and believes she is validating his yume. He thinks she is promising him glory, knighthood, and a future where he is finally recognized as a hero. He pledges his ultimate loyalty to her right then and there.But Ultimecia is entirely incapable of giving him a yume. All she has left is her gensou. When she promises to "provide you with dreams again," she isn't promising him a heroic future, she is promising to drag him down into her apocalyptic hallucination.They are the ultimate failed Knight/Sorceress pairing because they fundamentally misunderstand what the other person needs. That's entirely absent in the localization.
>>737764019Zack literally changes the courses of fate (in the lifestream) in Rebirth. Obviously he is also as special as Aerith, since he got the gift of the goddess in CC.
>>737787397They honestly should do a new translation of the game. FF8 lost a lot of meaningful things. Little parallels, foreshadow, twists. Just little things that adds up and paint a wider picture.
Aerith gets too many passes when she keeps pushing herself onto Cloud. She never seemed this pushy in the OG, but in the Remake she's pushing herself onto him so many times and it just makes me cringe whenever Cloud looks like he's being dragged around. The water tower scene where she just rushes to climb it, sits on Tifa's spot, pats beside her for him to sit just to sit on his usual spot is fucking cringe. Then she tries to set up a comparison of her having no friends vs the two last survivors of the town that pretty much got memory holed. Aerith still throwing herself at Cloud even after they almost kiss in Gongaga is even more jarring. She knows her best friend and Cloud are into each other, AND SHE STILL TRIES TO JUMP ON HIS DICK FOR THE REST OF THE GAME. Zack cucks shouldn't be looking forward to the reunion with her even. She's shown to be way more intimate and touchy with a guy she's only known for a good two weeks, all the while he keeps dying in every timeline. They're trying to make Zack and Aerith be romantic, and it would've been if she already didn't try to replace him with Cloud. I'd rather not see how Nomura tries to make it into a romantic reunion after he threw all his effort trying to make a love triangle, just for Aerith to go "heehee I was only jumping on his dick because he was just like you Zack."
>>737787224Honestly, i'm just trying to exorcise this game from my mind. Sometimes i catch myself thinking of things that from the game that might mean more and i need to investigate, or things that only then i realize what it means. And i need to externalize some of this shit.For example, right now i am doing a new speedrun of the game all because i want to investigate the colors Rinoa, Ellone, Edea, Adel, and Ultimecia MIGHT exhibit. Because i feel there must be some hidden shit in the mechanics of the game point to Hyne. I could check gameplay videos on Youtube, but most of the time the people recording their gameplays miss tons of optional shit that is important. So here i am paying attention to every little sec of model animation to see when and where a dark red hue is shown. One day i'll be free from this game, and i swear i will never play it again after that. I probably won't even shitpost about it.
>>737788792>She knows her best friend and Cloud are into each other, AND SHE STILL TRIES TO JUMP ON HIS DICK Do you know nothing about women?
>>737785529true
>>737788891The French and Italian translations change the lore a bit, with Laguna blatantly breaking the fourth wall and Ward taking a vow of silence rather that suffering a throat injury.
>>737788973Final Fantasy XIV just made that schizo theory worse with their dedicated FF8 event. When you do their Ultimate Raid based on FF8 these are the bosses that you fight. See anything odd?
Why is this OST so fucking beautiful? Oh yeah its because Masashi Hamauzu was literally born in a Music Conservatory and trained himself in Debussy and Chopin for decades until he got good af at composing:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3GP10euqBU&t=347sWhat a God. I always retvrn to this ost to just reflect on life.
>>737789036People tell me the German is the closest to the original Japanese.
>>737789062whos the 2nd nigga and why does he have a gunblade?>inb4 Squallsure possibly but i mean the official name of the enemy
>>737787665It isn't just theory, they originally were going to just use Julia for EVERYTHING.That means Julia would have Squall from Laguna first and give him up.Then she'd have Rinoa with General Caraway eventually, before dying.Meanwhile Laguna would adopt Ellone, possibly alone, before going on his quest after her in Esthar.Here's a picture of Julia's grave with the Griever engraved on it. It is the same one that eventually became Raine's for the ending FMV.I guess the studio thought Western audiences would lose their shit over Squall and Rinoa being siblings.
>>737788792Dude all the FF7 girls have body count. It's a game about unfulfilled dreams, so they're all gritty whores. Your pure waifu is in another castle.
>>737789158He is named Fatebreaker in the game.
>>737762302What is this from? Art direction looks great
>>737788891I for one think your essays are incredibly fascinating, exceptionally researched, and very well-written. It's always a pleasure to read through your analysis of a game that I truthfully didn't think very highly of for most of my life. Right or wrong, the Internet could always use more people like you to set an example for the masses.
>>737789537yeah he could be Squall but transformed into a monster
>>737789580Its from that shitty FF Dissisdia Mobile gameRinoa fucking sucks in that game btw for mutiple reasons, she is squishy as fuck dies early
>>737789635In the order they appear in the image:Cloud of Darkness (Umbra) as a stand-in for Ultimecia,Fatebreaker (Anamorphosis) as a stand-in Griever,Shadowkeeper (Litany) as a stand-in for the Ultimecia-Griever form,Eden's Promise (Eternity) as a stand-in for Ultimecia's last form.
>>737788792One of the things I like about the Final Fantasy franchise is their portrayal of true love, my favorite being Cecil and Rosa. Cloud and Tifa clearly have that going for them with the childhood friends and last survivors trope, but I was hoping Zack and Aerith would have that. But I don't see Zack and Aerith having that true love element in their relationship anymore because of those reasons. The most we see of Aerith in the Remakes is her thinking about Zack and their relationship in CC, that we only have a few scenes of. We do see how obsessed Zack is with her, risking his life going to Shinra territory while being hunted, just to be with her again. He could've disappeared with Cloud, taken care of him and find find a cure, but Aerith's note literally drives him to his death just to be with her again. In his final moments, all he can think about is Aerith. Back to Aerith's side, she wrote him 89 letters in the span of 5 years waiting for him, she still looks for him throughout the games, but doesn't really do that after Gongaga and meeting Zack's parents. She also says how she still likes him (in JP) when Cloud asks, and after that she feels his touch in the lifestream, all the while she's saving him when Sephiroth sends him to another portal, and sending him to other timelines by how it's being portrayed, and healing him before his Sephiroth fight. It's all romantical, right? Zack is trying to find Aerith, Aerith is saving Zack and guiding him for some reason. It's going to lead to a tearful reunion that fans have been waiting for. It should've been romantic, but with how Aerith has been jumping on Cloud's dick, not anymore. It doesn't illicit the type of true love that Cecil and Rosa had. It's a cheaper love now after Aerith grabs Cloud's arms whenever she can, almost kisses him multiple times, intimately holding hands, all while she knows he's into Tifa. She just ruins the true love factor, so now FF7 just has it between Tifa and Cloud.
>>737789443You clearly don't know shit about JRPG and their obsession of purity. FF7 is clearly running that same route otherwise they wouldn't include the power of love bullshit as a way to save the protag.
>>737789612I’m not sure why FF8 triggers my autism, but I think it’s because so much in the game can easily be missed. You have to dig deep to find answers to almost everything, and nearly everything carries some sort of double meaning.What I mean by the red hue is this: it appears around Ultimecia's body when you defeat her, but that's not the only time it shows up.
>>737790312This shade of red isn’t usually linked to Ultimecia’s powers. Most of the time, her abilities are associated with the color purple.So yeah, i need to investigate this shit.
>>737790375Here's an odd moment this red hue appear.
>>737790375rinoa is a sorceress but she wasnt meant to be ultimecia altho this would make the story x100 times more interesting and this should have been the case. Maybe in a remake they do that.The story of FF8 is a cluster fuck so linking everything like this would be a good idea. Ultimecia being Riona from a failed timeline where Squall missed his catch in space. Then the space monsters took her in and groomed her into a powerful Time Witch that fucks the future up or something.
>>737762797>Hyne himself possessing themThat sounds extremely gay
>>737762630>This whole plot point exists in like one fucking conversation with an NPC out of the way. What the fuck was FF8 doing at times.
>>737790680in FF13 most of the story is in retarded lore logs that you have to pause and read too. FF13 has an extensive mythology with their gods falcie and bhinevelze and all that but nobody gives a fuck because its not even the main plot until like FF13: Lightning Returns.
>>737763824just use cheats.
>>737762961Aerith died. Tifa had canon sex with Cloud under the Highwind. Inb4 schizoposting about some AV actress and some PC98 game. Aerith is dead. She died. She got impaled. She got murdered.
>>737762961Aerith is a dead whore and used use like Rinoa. Cloud is the only one who gets a superior wife who is a pure virgin and has huge boobs.
>>737790059JRPG fans are obsessed with purity. FF7 wasn't and they've constantly backpedaled on this since before release.
This is exactly what I mean about the colored lights being some sort of clue.This is the moment when Laguna and Ellone trigger Time Compression by giving Ultimecia the chance to possess Adel in the past. At this point, it’s made clear that ‘blue’ is linked to Rinoa’s consciousness and magical power.
>>737791840Looking at this moment, we see that blue represents Rinoa, and considering other points in the game, as shown here >>737790375, purple is clearly linked to Ultimecia. But where does the third color come from, the red one? I’d say that’s Hyne tagging along. But I’m playing the game again just to be sure.
>>737762302I want to play this Dissidia game, because the designs are nice.But i know it probably sucks and just wants my money.
Just to put it into words, i think what we're seeing is the Matryoshka Doll of Possession. Think of the possessed Rinoa at that moment as a set of nested Russian dolls. Ellone’s time-travel beam is essentially a scanner digging through these layers to extract the invader.The outer shell (Blue): Rinoa. The pure, uncorrupted human vessel in the present day.The middle layer (Purple): Ultimecia. This is the tragic, corrupted human soul from the future.The core (Red): Hyne. The ancient, parasitic, raw magical drive.Now when you mix red and blue paint together, you get purple. Even when you mix red and blue light together (like on a TV or phone screen), you get magenta, which is close to purple.Why am i jumping onto this? If Ultimecia were purely the "Red" essence of Hyne, she wouldn't act human at all. She would just be a mindless force of nature.But Ultimecia throughout the game does act human. She feels resentment. She gets angry at human hypocrisy (as we saw in the Deling City speech). She desperately wants a "Knight" to protect her heart. This proves she still has a tiny sliver of her original human soul (Blue) mixed in with the curse (Red). She is permanently stained Purple.When we look at the collage i posted above, the sequence of the colors makes some sense. Ellone is using her power to peel back the layers and throw the invader into the past:The Blue: Ellone targets the host body first (Rinoa).The Purple: The beam reaches inside and grabs the invading consciousness, the corrupted, tragic human soul of Ultimecia.The Red: As Ultimecia is forcefully shoved through the time stream into Adel's body, the deepest, most terrifying part of her is exposed. The pure, naked power of Hyne (the Red core) erupts outward because it is the actual "engine" pushing the Time Compression magic.Or something like that. I don't know, man. I've been playing this game too much.
>>737769223Man shes really fucking cute in this game.>>737769708Visually, but not personality wise.
>>737790680What NPC is this?
>>737792613The people at the White SeeD Ship.
>>737789102I always sing Hamauzu's praises.He did a lot of FFX and 13's most memorable aspect being its soundtrack, because of him only renforces that hes genuinely just underrated.I like X's more but XIII's is really good too.I'll avoid posting Sunleth Waterscape, because everyone posts it and knows its great, but I really like the Prelude too.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StVsSgMKBVIIt does that echoey sound that he did in quite a few songs from X. Its a very unique effect that I'm pretty fond of.
>>737789062Nigga that's cloud of darkness on he left not ultimecia, although I still don't get why the ff3 final boss was in the ff8 raid, did they suddenly remember the expansion was based around ff3 and threw her in there at the last minute?
>>737790680It was more important to focus on the greatest love story of all time with Squall and Rinoa.The villain and conflict is just a barely related side-story.
>>737792718That's precisely what the post is pointing out, though, that FFXIV used Cloud of Darkness in place of Ultimecia, giving somewhat of a credence to the weird theory that FF3 and FF8 are linked somehow, outside of just Hyne/Hein.
>>737792641During disc 2 or start of disc 3? Or do the lines never change
>>737792841Oh, they change every time. The game forces you to keep checking stuff like that depending where you are in the game. It's like the optional dialogue where Edea explains everything about what a knight means. You can easily miss it if you never go back to the orphanage with Rinoa in tow to talk with her. And even then you have to keep coming back there with Rinoa, because she explain things in bits.FF8 is like a bitch playing coy and blueballing you with information.
>>737789158Its a ref to 8 as others have pointed out, but its also a reference to a character in FF14 itself. Thancred (who uses a Gunblade), pic rel. Its a form taken from the memories of another character twisted and made manifest.
>>737775456Rinoa will never be Ultimecia, and YWNBAW.
>>737793017
>>737762302>she promised not to let anyone else endure the same fateWhen did she say this?
>>737793131When she gave herself up to Esthar.
Reminder that there are two Rinoa in the game.
>>737792841Start of disc 3. Though there's an NPC in Balamb Town who will also tell a shorter version of the story, but he literally has a random % chance to even appear, because PS1 games were weird like that (they had to sell strategy guides somehow).
>>737793110he could simply be talking about pic related to be honest
Regarding the damn fucking colors, that is my obsession of late, when Final Fantasy VIII was originally ported to the PC in 2000 (and later repackaged for Steam in 2013), the game relied on an older method of rendering called "8-bit palleted textures." Modern graphics cards eventually stopped supporting this specific older rendering method. Because of this hardware mismatch, the game's alpha channel (the code that tells the game which parts of an image should be transparent and glowing) completely broke.In the game's texture files, magical auras (like the purple magic of Ultimecia) are drawn on a solid black background. The alpha channel is supposed to make that black background invisible, leaving only the glowing, colored magic. Because the transparency broke in those older PC ports, the game couldn't hide the black backgrounds. Instead of glowing, translucent Red and Purple auras, players got magic effects that were suffocated by ugly, opaque black squares, or magic that rendered entirely too dark/black because the additive lighting was broken.When they decided to make the 2019 Remaster, they couldn't just press a button to upgrade the graphics. The development team (handled by Dotemu under Square Enix's supervision) had to essentially reverse-engineer the game, rebuild the character models from scratch, and manually piece the rendering engine back together.So they didn't just accidentally fix the red and purple magic. The original director, Yoshinori Kitase, and the original character designer, Tetsuya Nomura, were involved in overseeing the Remaster to ensure it finally looked the way it was supposed to. They knew that the broken PC ports had effectively erased the visual storytelling. By dedicating the resources to rebuild the transparency engine, they were actively choosing to restore the exact color mixing.The fact that Square Enix went out of their way to fix this specific visual element decades later confirms i'm on the right track.
>>737774620By the way, Mobius Final Fantasy kind of explains that when you're inside the Time Compression, you can use your mind to reshape reality. In that game, Squall changes the environment into a flower field. This could explain why the Deling City’s Presidential Residence appears in the Time Compression, as Ultimecia shaped to resemble it. It could also explain why, in the text describing the opening FMV, the environment is portrayed as a growling beast, seemingly rebuking Rinoa as she becomes increasingly distressed.
>>737792943I remember laughing at the first time you Ultimecia. She looked so tiny from where you're standing, and it failed make her look intimidating till the camera angle changes. It was the first time you really see her too, so I was wondering why would anyone do that. It's only later I found out that Ultimecia and Rinoa in-game model have the same exact height. That's why she looked so small.
>>737762961get out of my thread. Both you and your dead whore.
>>737762961I can't tell if you're a falseflag aerisfag or tifag, but I support you anon.You clearly hate one of these characters and you should be allowed to vent here in your own way, 4chan is supposed to be the place were you can go full autist unlike xitter or reddit.
>>737762961We know Aerith is the canon love interest, not because of the magic thing, it's just the way the story is written. Why not make a dedicated thread to discuss it instead of here, anon.
>>737793293Okay… well that’s not what I asked about. When did she say she “promised not to let anyone else endure the same fate”?
>>737795353It was responded, during the whole Esthar stuff when she gives herself up to be sealed.
>>737795395But she didn’t SAY that in the screenshot you posted
>>737795437C'mon, man.
>>737772758HEY RETARDwhy did you cut out the IMMEDIATE next statement???https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8asSQorSng
If you watch the FF8 FMVs closely, you’ll notice frequent close-ups on Rinoa’s chest, specifically her necklace and the ring or rings attached to it. These shots seem intentional, possibly to help establish a timeline.According to Nojima’s text, Rinoa in the opening FMV is touching the lion-engraved ring, which she only receives from Zell at the end of Disc 2 during the Battle of the Gardens.From then on, her model shows her wearing both her original plain band and the engraved lion ring, like during the Space Rescue.In-game, she never returns the engraved ring to Squall; she only promises to give it back once Zell makes her a copy, which never happens on-screen.However, in the end credits, when she and Squall kiss, her model shows a single ring, implying she returned his and kept the copy. This suggests that the opening FMV, based on Nojima’s text showing her with a single lion-engraved ring, actually takes place after the end credits, after the happy ending.The whole ring conundrum isn’t just an oversight. In the ending FMV, they show two models of Rinoa at the same time, one wearing a single ring on her necklace, and the other wearing two. The first disappears during that trippy sequence, while the latter is the one that finds Squall.
>>737796412Because it doesn't matter as long as no one confirms R = U was intended, all that means is Tabata isn't a mind reader
Here’s the official concept art of Ultimecia’s final form from the Ultimania guide. Notice anything interesting?Not to mention that the lower, female half is enshrouded by a blue fabric that resemble wings.
>>737797395We are talking about a game where they haven't even confirmed obvious shit like Laguna being Squall's father.
>>737797395Tabata is fired for FFXV. That's what Tabata is.
>>737797395*Kitase isn't a mind reader
In Mobius Final Fantasy Julia's theme is playing while they have this talk regarding who Ultimecia might be.
>>737797445Raine got pregnant, gave birth then died. Next thing we know Ellone and Squall are both at an orphanage. Kiros talks to Squall about how it's good that he resembles his mother and not his father. There's plenty of corroboration in comparison to R = U being completely speculative.
>>737797593Raine is never shown being pregnant.Squall could be just some random orphan. Kiros might have known another woman, who's Squall's mom.It is as speculative as R=U.
>>737795301I don't get it. Is she upset because the people who loved her forgot about her, or she forgot about the people who loved her?
>>737797698Raine died shortly after childbirth.
>>737797704Could be both, as everything else in the game.
>>737797698The Moomba recognize people by their blood. The fact that they call Squall Laguna means they have to be related somehow. It also explains why Ellone cares about him, and their ages match as well.
>>737762302https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKBe41CpptY>ballroom dance>the poseIt's pretty much confirmed, isn't it? It doesn't much make sense to me that the great sorceress would embarrass herself with ballroom dance to the air just to toy with Squall if it doesn't have greater meanings.
>>737797886I'm not saying that Laguna is not Squall's father, but rather that the game doesn't come out and say it. They place all these clues and leave it to the player to draw the obvious conclusion.
>>737798001This here, >>737766176, should settle it. You have the character Echo trying to jog Squall’s memory, since in that game he ends up in another world with no recollection of who he is, where he is, or why he’s there. It’s also established that all of this takes place during FF8’s Time Compression, so Squall somehow winds up in another world while wandering through it. Echo’s approach is to first imitate Rinoa, and when that fails, she paraphrases Ultimecia’s dying words with a slightly romantic twist, as if those words were somehow tied to Rinoa.
>>737797698>Raine is never shown being pregnant>Ellone: "You can't change the past. I just found that out. When I was kidnapped, Uncle Laguna went on a journey to find me... But because he did, Uncle Laguna wasn't able to be by Raine's side when she died. Raine wanted to show Laguna her new born baby... Raine kept calling out for Laguna. So no matter what, I wanted Laguna to stay in the village... But it didn't work.">Squall could be just some random orphanWhat makes more sense, Laguna and Raine's child being Squall or Squall just happening to imprint on Ellone being his "big sis" in some event we're never allowed to see?>Kiros might have known another womanHow did Kiros know her? Who was the father? I thought Squall was just some random orphan? Why is none of this talked about or hinted at while Squall being Laguna and Raine's kid lines up perfectly?>It is as speculative as R=UNowhere close. There's more solid arguments for Quistis being Ultimecia than there is for Rinoa being Ultimecia.
>>737786793>Edea (Ultimecia): "You and I... together, we shall bring forth the final fantasy. Within it, both life and death are but a sweet dream."Cant believe people are still spouting this wrong translation from decades ago.She says 'ultimate fantasy' not Final fantasy like a retard>>737798026I mean Kiros outright says he looks like his mom and thankfully not his dad. And Laguna says we have a lot to talk about afterwards. It's trusting their audience to not be retarded
>>737798271>She says 'ultimate fantasy' not Final fantasy like a retardI know, i translated as final because it is obviously cooler. Nojima was to shy to directly drop the game title.
>>737762302>and she promised never to let anyone else endure the same fate.and she did my making magic universal
>>737798249>Nowhere close. There's more solid arguments for Quistis being Ultimecia than there is for Rinoa being Ultimecia.Give me at least 5.
>>737798249Is that image supposed to be a joke? They have completely different hairlines.
I know this theory is pretty old, like it started spreading among the Japanese fan community a year after the game release. Why did it so long to reach us?
>>737798385See the post you quoted and add in Quistis' past, being disgruntled with SeeD after they demoted her, knowing just as much about Squall as Rinoa does while also likely feeling regret at the relationship she never had with Squall. All those negative emotions would explain why she got progressively hostile towards SeeD rather than Rinoa just forgetting and going crazy.
>>737798583Meanwhile Rinoa has a completely different hairstyle, doesn't have a matching outfit/color scheme and doesn't have the same spell that Ultimecia and Quistis share
>>737798661She isn't disgruntled with SeeD nor she feels any regret regarding Squall and Rinoa. C'mon, man. Look at the thread. Look at the images posted.
>>737798709Hair and outfit can change, but the fact that both Ultimecia and Rinoa have the same exact ingame model height is something to take note of.
>>737768979Rinoa is nothing like Tifa at all.
>>737798720>She isn't disgruntled with SeeDWhich is why she tried to trauma dump on Squall about in the training center, amirite?>nor she feels any regret regarding Squall and RinoaThat's at least an arguable scenario that's deeper than "Rinoa went crazy due and forgot about the man she loved due to junction abuse" or whatever you guys are trying to push.
>>737798709Hair style isn't genetic retard.
>Rinoa>Only SeeD can help me>Ultimecia>Only SeeD can stop meKINO
>>737798758>Ultimecia and Rinoa have the same exact ingame model height is something to take note ofProve it and be sure to post Quistis alongside them
>>737798925Meanwhile all Quistis has to do to have Ultimecia's hairstyle is change the way her bangs are styled. Rinoa would have to completely grow them out.
>>737798940Nobody even considered Quistis as a possible Ultimecia candidate. She's not even a Sorceress.
>>737798896>That's at least an arguable scenario that's deeper than "Rinoa went crazy due and forgot about the man she loved due to junction abuse" or whatever you guys are trying to push.If you had read the argument, you'd have seen >>737774620, an official text written by Nojima himself, where he writes that Rinoa is waiting somewhere, for an eternity, or a fleeting instant, without being able to recall her memories.
>>737799021Guess Nojima hid it better than you thought, huh? What a genius :^)
>>737799093Oh man, I can't believe I took you seriously. well played.
>>737799050Sounds like the ending sequence of the game from Rinoa's perspective
>>737798001You'd have to ignore a mountain of evidence in order to deny R=U, and the literal only thing that says Rinoa is not Ultimecia is a Kitase answer, which he later rescinded.
>>737799145It is precisely that. Not only the ending from her perspective, but also the beginning of the game. They're both linked and the text tells you how.
>>737799128Hopefully now you understand why people rail against R = U as bullshit
>>737799185You're railing while ignoring all the stuffs posted. You're just being obtuse and shitposting.
>>737767859>ywn watch a FF movie with this peak animationwe were robbed
>>737799169Can someone link me the youtube video that explained this in details?Also is it still in Japanese?did someone translate it?
Rinoa's moveset in a spin-off game, though i don't stuffs like this seriously.
>>737799179Which makes no sense. Does she get lost in time compression again? Do you understand that in the ending Squall loses his memories and Rinoa has to go find him? She's experiencing the same symptoms Squall is but she manages to hold out and find him.
>>737799264https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-wBs8rY_As
>>737799221>You're railing while ignoring all the stuffs postedSeems like a bunch of meandering nonsense to me, all that got pointed out is that Rinoa got lost in time compression just like Squall did, which is the ending of the game.
>>737799015But she still wouldn't have a widow's peak or different eye shape. The 2nd side-by-side strongly suggests two different people.
>>737799356thanks
>>737799401Show me Rinoa's widow's peak then
>>737799342That's where you realize this fact >>737797337. There are two different Rinoa in the game.
>>737799456Show me a pic of Rinoa with her hair styled straight back.
>>737799238
>>737799467>There are two different Rinoa in the game>One with one ring and another with twoYeah it's called the plot advancing. Rinoa always had one ring and then she got a copy of Squall's.
>>737799396>all that got pointed out is that Rinoa got lost in time compression just like Squall did, which is the ending of the game.Yeah, but when? We see in the ending FMV that the Rinoa that was in our party, got lost in the Time Compression just like Squall did, and found him giving us a happy ending, was wearing a necklace with two rings on it. But the opening FMV and, most importantly, the text written by Nojima tells us that the Rinoa that is lost in the Time Compression having trouble remembering things is touching a single, lion-engraved ring on her necklace.
>>737762961tpbp
>>737799492I'm not the guy crying about widow's peaks here
>>737799337Ultimecia uses all of Rinoa's weapons in Disidia. They pretty much did everything they could do without coming out and saying it. I don't know why we are even discussing this still.
>>737797337ive heard you explain this before but i get lost with your reasoning. what circumstance leads to rinoa not having squalls ring and becoming ultimacia (and syill extremely hung up on squall)? squall dying before giving her the ring?
>>737799583Go away, deadwhorefag.
>>737799582>a single, lion-engraved ring on her necklaceWhere does it say single?
>>737799557She still wears her usual plain band and his ring on her necklace during the fight with Ultimecia and in this scene >>737799582. In the ending FMV we are seeing two different Rinoa.>>737799683Here.
>>737799728ran it through google translate and there doesn't seem to be a mention of a single ring
>>737799582and why is it significant if she only has the lion ring? the other band is just her plain one right? what does its abscense mean to you
>>737799613Rinoa gets a second ring for her necklace when Zell gives her Squall’s ring during the Battle of the Gardens in Disc 2. From then on, she’s seen wearing both rings until the game’s end. She promises to return Squall’s ring as soon as Zell makes a copy, but that never happens, leaving the promise unfulfilled. In the final end credits, when she and Squall kiss on the balcony, she’s wearing only one ring, hinting she finally gave his back.In the Nojima text describing the opening FMV, this version of Rinoa is shown wearing a single ring, a lion-engraved one rather than a plain band. It also hints that she faintly remembers the promise from Disc 3, suggesting this version could only appear after the end credits, when she kept the copy Zell made.>>737799858See, right there. It’s “a ring,” not “the ring.” If she had two rings, it would distinguish between them. But we don't need to guess, because we know the text is describing the opening FMV. Here's a picture from it.
>>737798271>She says 'ultimate fantasy' not Final fantasy like a retardYou should look up what the word ultimate means.
>>737800156>if she had two rings, it would distinguish between themThe other ring means nothing to the narrative though, Rinoa always had it while Squall's ring holds specific significance to the scene at hand which is why it's singled out
>>737799880It suggests that the opening FMV, where Rinoa is lost in the Time Compression and can’t remember where she is, who she’s waiting for, or what the promise was about, actually shows the Rinoa from after the end-credits. After everything that happened in the game and the happy ending, she somehow ends up back in that empty, featureless void.Who knows what really happens to her, but the opening shows her surrounded by black feathers. Then, reading the text and realizing she sent that pure white feather to Squall in the ending FMV brings to mind the surreal sequence that unfolds right after he approaches it. All those strange loops of Rinoa, some even showing scenes that never appear in the game.
>>737800156>we know the text is describing the opening FMV. Here's a picture from itah yes the shot where Rinoa confronts Edea which happens WAY BEFORE Rinoa ever gets the copy of Squall's ring
>>737800293Either way, the point is moot, since we know from the opening FMV that there isn’t another ring, at least not with this specific Rinoa.
>>737800425>ah yes the shot where Rinoa confronts Edea which happens WAY BEFORE Rinoa ever gets the copy of Squall's ringWatch the opening FMV again. Where do you think she is? She’s not facing Edea in Deling City, she’s in the so-called “Commencement Room.”
>>737800372>she somehow ends up back in that empty, featureless voidI love how R = U always has these scenarios that are never explained through the game and/or have to be theorized about without any proof
>>737800484>She’s not facing Edea>Rinoa is looking at Edea's back in both instances
>>737800507There’s proof: we see two different versions of Rinoa, two distinct models created by the staff, and not only that, they were featured in FMVs, which back then required a lot of effort and money to produce.>>737800556You’re overlooking, whether intentionally or not, the key point: the prologue shows Rinoa witnessing the past from the Commencement Room, a location that, as we know from the game, exists only during Time Compression.
>>737768826>This is why Balamb Garden is the only mercenary academy in the world that inherently uses the GF Junction systemI want to point out that Trabia Garden also used it, Selphie's limit break is explained as the result of a GF she junctioned to herself, but has forgotten about due to the memory loss related to GFs. So since she was originally from Trabia, it must've happened there.
>>737800428They were probably trying to avoid spoilers/people thinking they fucked up the FMV before even having played the game or even an error in which character model/design they used for the FMV. It's a lot easier to explain than there being two Rinoas which means she's also Ultimecia for some reason.
>>737800668>the prologue shows Rinoa witnessing the past from the Commencement Roomyou literally see Rinoa in it in game in >>737800484
>>737798230That doesn't explain why Squall is standing next to Kai Leng.
>>737800729Why would you attribute that to an error or oversight? We also have interviews from the Ultimania guide where they mention deliberately going out of their way to recreate moments from the game while incorporating new elements.>>737800808Yes, we’re watching Rinoa revisit the past, reliving her own memories, especially the moment she faced Edea in Disc 1.
>>737800901>Why would you attribute that to an error or oversightBecause it's much easier to see that happening vs this all being a way to subtly let the audience in that there's two Rinoas when the game's script didn't even mention it according to Kitase and that further leads to Rinoa being Ultimecia which so relies on such a huge amount of speculation that no one can point to anything in game as to how specifically it happens
>>737800901then technically there should be two Rinoas in the scene
>>737801048>Because it's much easier to see that happeningYou’d be wrong. It’s not, especially considering how Square-Soft handled FMVs back then for this game, using real actors and motion capture, which required a lot of planning, effort, and money.
>>737801048>KitaseThe same Kitase that said he couldn't say for sure, one way or another, if Nomura or Nojima added something to the game? The same Kitase that was very hands-off with the staff and the production?
>>737801147It’s not, especially considering how Square-Soft handled FMVs back thenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETnJ0SjIlF4#t=121
>>737801221>The same Kitase that said he couldn't say for sure, one way or another, if Nomura or Nojima added something to the game?Yes, the same Kitase that states there's nothing about it in the game's final manuscript, see >>737772758
>>737801646I'm sorry, but i am going to choose to believe Nojima on this.>>737801721I'm seeing this >>737793110, though. I mean, Kitase is telling me Nomura or Nojima might have done it. I guess i'll trust him.
>>737801787>i am going to choose to believe Nojima on thisunless he has specified R + U specifically I'm betting he's talking about stuff like >>737793616
>>737801935I don't trust your judgment when it comes to bets.
>>737801787>Kitase is telling me Nomura or Nojima might have done itNo, he's saying it's a possibility they might have done it without ever mentioning it to him but if the final manuscript has no mention of it and (apparently) no way to logically define the specific scenario where Rinoa becomes Ultimecia, R = U is just straight up speculation with zero corroborating evidence to back it up.
>>737802103Manuscript is one thing, the final game is another. Not to mention that Nojima was the main scenario writer.
>>737801979That's fine, my bet has more substance than R = U though because there are undeniable examples of something you might only notice upon closer inspection/a replay
>>737802171Your posts have no substance whatsoever. You're just a shitposter.
>>737802156>the final game is anotherthe text is based off the manuscript, so unless there are specific mentions somewhere in the game that R = U or Nojima/Nomura/whoever confirms it then it's all speculation
>>737802214>Your posts have no substance whatsoeverHow ironic. Get back to me when you have proof that R = U is canon beyond speculation.
FFVIII is a really good game and I'm happy all of us got to experience it
>>737801587Holy fucking shit, I played Opera Omnia and I don't think I ever tried putting Rinoa and Ultimecia in the same party
>>737801587>>737803503https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31WgAp4ouFUActually, it's fake news. That image is from a lot earlier in the game than this video, so maybe at one point they counted as the same character, but at the end of the game they didn't count as the same character.
>>737768087no lies detected
Imagine still arguing almost every day over this crap from a 30 year old video game which was always overrated and never that good to begin with. and I mean both FF7 and FF8 here
>>737773980good translation requires a really close reading of the text to pick out those kind of things, it's unfortunate that it often doesn't happen due to neglect or economic pressure or whatever. the various translations of lord of the rings are interesting case studies in it
>>737801587
>>737788792>Aerith gets too many passes when she keeps pushing herself onto Cloud. She never seemed this pushy in the OG, but in the Remake she's pushing herself onto him so many times and it just makes me cringe whenever Cloud looks like he's being dragged around.Wow, did not expect that all of a sudden in a ff8 thread.I don't know what it is but /v/ praised the GREAT CHARACTER INTERACTIONS of ff7 remake....Then finally I can play it as a pc-chud and its fucking horrible.Exactly like you wrote, just not just aerith though.All the females are weirdly totally fangasming over him. But not just that but cloud is a fucking retard now.Everybody just mocks him, even the dumb ass elderly apartment lady and he just shrugs it off.That opinion was really unpopular and everybody called it a great expansion for the OG characters. I thought I'm going crazy man.Maybe after it has been now a couple years on pc people look at it more somber?I saw a graph that said in japan for FF the most popular demographic is female 30/40s. That could be the reason for that.Anyway, sorry for the blog post 7 hours late.
>>737803736>overratedBrother it was popular to hate ff8 over a decade ago thanks to Spoony
Why is Rinoa such a downgrade from Tifa? Her character is shit and she is used goods, but at the very least they could have given her bog tits to compensate.
>>737806538you already made this post
Explain the Squall's dead theory to me.
>>737806807Reality hurts. Seifer's used goods. Squall a cuck.
>>737807137There is a perceived change in theme and narrative after the end of disc 1. In accordance with the theory, everything in disc 1 is more grounded and realistic, while onward everything seems centered around Squall's life; Edea is his Matron, everyone except Rinoa grew up with him, his big sister Ellone is the target of the evil sorceress, and so on. The mood of the game changes from living as mercenaries to enigmatically navigating crisis after crisis in ways that are swiftly moved on from. For example, nobody talks about NORG's rebellion once NORG is dead, Galbadia just stops existing entirely once the war of the gardens ends, nobody talks about how weird is is that Esthar is some kind of futuristic mega-city living in total seclusion, the Lunar Cry happens and you just let Esthar burn because you have to get to the next plot point, etc.The idea is it's all too psychedelic and convenient, and it's Squall's afterlife or dying brain conjuring hallucinations because he just got hit by an ice missile through the heart and died on the spot instead. FFVIII is rather schizophrenic with its direction, but the idea that it's just a dream/afterlife is rather pointlessly malicious.
>>737807508I can definitely see that. I just finished it for the first time yesterday and I remember before playing it hearing about a theory that Squall was dead but I couldn't really see any hints to it in game but yeah you're definitely right about the weird schizophrenic direction the game goes in when you get to disc 2. I thought the game was taking the piss when I got to the reveal that they were all actually childhood friends from the same orphanage and just forgot.
>>737806538>she is used goodsw-what?
>>737762302for me it was never about turning R=U or squall being dead into canon, the biggest strength of ff8 story is in its ambiguity and what you as a persona want to take out of the experience. the same way ff7 ending leaves a lot of things to interpretations. I prefer this type of storytelling more than the definitive endings and what you see is what you get approach.
>>737808004She openly states that Seifer is her ex-boyfriend. Why was this even included in the story? It doesn't even make sense and the 2 have barely any interactions.
>>737808132T-Thats not how I remember it. She just thought he was cool.
>>737807508Same shit happened with FF7 and FF9. once you change cds, the entire game changes directions. It also happens when you move from CD2 to CD3.
>>737806538>she is used goodsYou'll never have sex outside your uncle if you demand a virgin.
>>737809480>low IQ normalfag can't distinguish between reality and fictionTale as old as time.
>>737809480Something strange is happening to the FF7 fanbase that's spilling over to the other Final Fantasy threads. It's best not to reply to anything FF7 related.
>>737810069>is worried about the sexual history of a 3D model>but I can't distinguish between reality and fiction>because I'm a normalfag>not an autisticfag
what did she mean by this
>>737779336Men are more overly emotional than women.
>>737810516Proving my point
>>737810773>you proved me right by proving me wrong>i am bleeding, making me the victor
>>737811151You demonstrated an inability to distinguish reality and fiction and in general just acted like a retarded normalfag, ergo proving my point that you're a retarded normalfag who can't tell the difference between a real woman and a 3D model, ironic as that being with your previous post.
>>737811151I told you not to argue with the schizofag.
>>737811223>i literally got mad that a character in a video game has had sex>but you demonstrated an inability to distinguish reality and fiction
>>737811738>i literally got mad that a character in a video game has had sexWow this was a stupid response. You're so much of a retarded normalfag that you can't understand other people not applying the same standards to real woman as a fucking fictional character. It's genuinely impressive how lacking in self awareness you are. Also nobody is mad, that's pure projection.
>>737809385Yeah, scalation and increase of stakes is bread and butter for most adventure stories, ff8 isn’t really different on that.
>>737811830You got mad that a fictional character had sex. She's used goods, and you will no longer propose to her like you already planned with Aerith, Shadowheart, and Liara.
>>737810247i only recently realized that FF7 remake is completely colonized by tumblrina twitterfags who are rabid shippers. back in the day the tifa vs aerith stuff was all banter but there's tons of mentally ill retards who ship cloud with either of them and shittalk the others 24/7 on xitter. these are the same people shitposting about them on /v/ every day now. same exact talking points, genuine obsession to the point of mental illness, and they have to let everyone else know about it
>>737762961>deuteragonistThis trash word appeared on low grade wikis a few years back and is a sure sign of an idiot.
My wife Cutenoa is so cute
>>737814659ff7r is the first modern video game with meaningful tropes on both sides for there to be a shipping war
>>737814659I remember Aeris being a pretty well liked character since forever. Now everyone is calling her a "prostitute" and a "whore" and it's so charring to watch.
>>737816201the literal same shit is said about tifa, it's their favorite insult and they hurl it at each other 24/7 for some reason
>>737816853This pretty much, people just want to level the playing field even though Tifa has waay more actual evidence of her being a whore
>>737816853I honestly wouldn't care but it's spilling on the other Final Fantasy threads and it's ruining it for everyone.
>>737816201>>737816853People joked about the two of them being prostitutes ever since the game was released. Aeriths reputation really took a nosedive during the big NTR craze in the early 2010. I remember there being a really popular ntr-doujin of her that got posted all the fucking time.
>>737816201If you take a realist reading of the girls in FFVII they've all seen a long mile of dick. That's just facts. It doesn't make them bad people, but there's a huge cohort of waifu spergs who think it would, and squeenix keeps pandering to them because they buy stuff.
This ESL faggot is never going away, is he?
>they ff8ified ff7 remake because you h8ed itkarma
>>737785529>he thinks he's a lore master>he doesn't even know FF8's ultimate secret Quistis isn't wearing boots.
>>737818019>taking miles of cock for your own selfish pleasure instead of awarding a good man with a family doesn't make you a bad personActually this along with j-ish fiat currency are pretty much exclusively the major crises facing the modern age. I mean you can deny reality if you want but you can't deny the consequences of denying reality.
>thread still going on interesting>>>/mu/130064740
>>737819123See these are the people I'm talking about.
>>737793110I think it wasnt intended to be R=U but the idea is so good and the plot of FF8 is so lacking that now Square is considering making it canon. And they totally should.
/vrpg/ FFanon is one of the few effort posters left on the website. Love this guy.
>>737821018You said something false. I corrected you. You can cry about it all you want.
>>737821584bro i havent lurked /v/ in months, I lurk /mu/ rn im learning to play piano I want to play the songs of Hamauzu
Why an official book about FF8 would use Pink Floyd song?
Reminder that there was a close possibility that in KH Squall and Sora could have been originally straight up father and son. When you think about it KH is pretty much the spiritual sequel of FF8.
>>737762302Far more easier that Yuna became Jenova
>>737822239Bc Pink Floyd is good, hit or miss has some prog rock bangers. But Its not Yes or King Crimson or The Flower Kings its just an alright band.https://youtu.be/Gx-0BmYg5Z8?si=nVfSa1SDYdzsQTyw&t=3016>>737822318this is a bad idea lol im glad it got discarded then
>>737817154I think it may be Rinoa? They see her as a rehash of the opposite girl and try to attack her?
>>737822318Well, Naminé is pretty much Ellone.
>>737791101>>737791019> Porn addict incels only like Tifa becuase they self insert as Cloud and fetishize asian womenSad.
>>737824426im a yuffie fag i literally dont give a fuck about the stupid shipping wars of the FF7 fandom im above it all.
>>737824651> Pedophile who fetishizes underage asian womanOh yes so different from Tifags.How about you actually play games instead of vicariously dating through edgelord characters?
>>737824703Mad because i dont give a fuck about your shipping wars. Seethe.
>>737824931> I'm outside the shipping wars because i'm a pedophileThat's not the W you think it is.
is every ff8 thread just schizoposting?
>>737824426this is the most anyone has needed to go back in quite some time
>>737806108Yes FF8 is less overrated than FF7 but both games are trash.
>>737824651Yuffie was my favorite back when I was underage and she's still my favorite.I think she was the first character I actively looked up doujins of
>>737825421No, FF7 materia system is kinda fun. And honestly Sephiroth and Cloud are cool. I prefer Squall as a protag though. Whatever...
>>737824267Not only Naminé.Sora and Squall: Sora’s iconic two-handed, over-the-shoulder Keyblade resting pose is a direct evolution of Squall’s Gunblade stance. It projects a relaxed but guarded hero.Riku and Seifer: Riku holding the Soul Eater (and later Way to the Dawn) with one hand, blade pointed down and back, is pure Seifer Almasy. It’s an arrogant, aggressive stance designed for striking quickly.Riku and Seifer Redux: The arcs of Seifer Almasy and Riku are cut from the exact same cloth. Both Seifer and Riku desperately want to be the "hero" of their own stories. Seifer has a "romantic dream" of becoming a Sorceress's Knight, wanting to transcend the mundane life of a mercenary. Riku feels suffocated by his small island and wants the power to protect his friends and explore the outside world. Edea (possessed by Ultimecia) and Maleficent both play on these exact insecurities. They don't just brainwash these boys; they offer them validation. Edea gives Seifer the title and purpose he always craved. Maleficent offers Riku a way off the island, a place in her castle, and poisons his mind.Ultimecia and Xehanort: Beyond just manipulating time, their methodologies are nearly identical. Both are extremely powerful magic users from a different era who possess the bodies of younger characters in the present (Ultimecia possessing Edea/Rinoa; Xehanort possessing Terra, Riku) to enact their will. Their ultimate goals, Time Compression and the forging of the χ-blade to reset the universe, both involve shattering the boundaries of reality to reshape existence in their own image.SeeD vs. Dandelions: The nomenclature here is too similar to be a coincidence. Both groups are composed of child/teenage soldiers who are explicitly designed to survive a catastrophic, world-ending event and carry the future forward. They are the literal "seeds" planted in the present to bloom in a devastated future.
>>737825080pretty much any ff thread at this point
I'm just here for the hot older evil villainess x handsome stud younger male hero There is not enough of that out there
>>737825703Barry won
>>737825539Don't forget the dumb time-travel mechanics. In FFVIII, Ellone’s power (and later the Junction Machine Ellone) does not send physical bodies back in time. It sends the consciousness of the user back into a host body that existed in that era (Squall’s mind into Laguna’s body).In Kingdom Hearts, Young Xehanort explains the absolute first rule of time travel: You must cast away your physical body. Only a "heart" (consciousness/soul) can move through time.In FFVIII, Ultimecia can only travel as far back in time as the Junction Machine allows, and she requires a "vessel" (a Sorceress) to inhabit once she gets there.In Kingdom Hearts, the second rule is that a version of yourself must exist at the destination. You cannot travel to an era where you do not exist, acting as an anchor.Both games heavily enforce the idea of a predestination paradox where fate is difficult, if not impossible, to alter.In FFVIII, Squall travels back and gives Edea the idea for SeeD, which leads to his own upbringing.In Kingdom Hearts, Xehanort travels to the future, learns his ultimate fate, and returns to his own time. The critical rule he states is that upon returning to your original time, you lose your memories of the future. However, the experiences are etched into your heart, subconsciously guiding you to fulfill the very future you just forgot. So even the loss of memories is important in these games.
>>737825080>>737825734Cool contribution to the thread. Simply epic, as the children say.
>>737779549>Take anything>Take everything>Never trade>Never giveYou have ruined all motivation to create anything.
>>737785529no one played 3
>>737762302Ultimecia is either Riona or her descendant.
>>737790680I kind of like that a lot of important shit is behind some rando most players will never talk to but I get why people hate it.
>>737790680I really like it actually. There a trio of girls in Balamb Garden that you can talk to through out the game. They pass the test with you, fall apart, come back together to defend Balamb, and one of them gets badly injured but survives and it all ends happily ever after. One of them has the same exact personality Squall, but unlike him she actually expresses her feelings. They constantly tease her, but it's such a cute relationship they all have. Only other game that did this was Chrono Cross. Talking to npc in both worlds was great. and every stage in the game changes how they respond to you, and that includes when you turn into a beastman. It made the game feel so alive.
>>737764019Zack died a hero and went to the 'Promised Land' which is just heaven or the afterlife to the Cetra. All humans were Cetra at one point.
>>737826806ALL the best versions of the old FF games are on emulators. Its not my fault. I just want to play the best most complete versions of the game series.
>>737830114>all humans were CetraWhat?
>>737826806Every Final Fantasy through 13 is so old it has no reasonable claim to copyright. Make something worth buying and I'll buy it. I already paid full price for both the 7 remakes. Not interested in paying interns to ruin finished games.
>>737830114What's up with FF and Promised Lands?
>>737831353Israel was promised to the jews 3000 years agoSephiroth is Jewish because the Sefirot is from the Kabbalah
>>737831353it's only a thing in 7
>>737831752See >>737774620. The flower field where Squall and Rinoa promised to meet up, is named Promised Land officially.
>>737831857Israel
>>737831857>>737832097There are the Centras too, in FF8..
>>737831857I'm not trusting any translated shit. What is it called in Japanese?
>>737832542See >>737799728. Why not just read the thread?
>>737830706Humans are Cetra who abandoned tradition and settled permanently on Gaia. Jenova tricked them into fighting a civil war with the nomadic Cetra which destroyed both civilizations.>>737831518Nah, Cetra are very jewish. Any human could be capable of doing what Aeris did, but she's the only one the Cetra in the Lifestream will talk to because she's the only living child of a Cetra woman. Sephiroth was named on the assumption that Jenova was a Cetra, which presumably makes Sephiroth a Cetra-adjacent name. Jenova would be like the Anglo-Americans or the Turks.
>>737832607so we have promised land in two of 16 titles, hardly a commonly occurring thing
>>737832984Source on your schizobabble?
>>737833284That flower field imagery with Promise Land stuff are in other titles too. I think 16 has it.
>>737762961Aerithschizo is getting out of control
>>737833360Where was the first appearance? Was it also in VI or IV?
>>737833850neither
>>737833912So it all comes from VII?
>>737833335Script excerpts from https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Cetra#cite_note-1and a small application of common sense.You could say the virus made all humans inferior to Cetra, but it's also canon Cetra can just manifest and talk to people if they want. My conclusion is Cetra are Hacidic level douchebags who don't care about anything outside their dead Jew club drama. Thus the only way to make them do something is to be a dead Jew.
>>737833912The Esper dimension in VI was also a Promised Land. I don't remember anything like that in IV. They just went to the moon.
>>737833964This is what it says.It mentions separate beings from the Cetra appeared.Sephiroth: But, those that disliked the journey appeared. Those who stopped their migrations built shelters and elected to lead an easier life. They took that which the Cetra and the planet had made without giving back one whit in return! Those are your ancestors.
>>737770539I can't believe Squall just killed a man.
>>737834304So your theory is another, larger group with identical anatomy and comparable knowledge to the Cetra arrived from the stars, eventually took over the planet, and that civilization's name was completely forgotten by their own descendants?
>>737770539>WH-163フSSユdoes the license plate mean something?
R = U fags are the B fags of FF8, useful idiots who keep conversations going but ultimately get proven wrong so easily that its more fun to watch them go.
>>737798249>There's more solid arguments for Quistis being Ultimecia than there is for Rinoa being Ultimecia.Cite 'em.
>>737835346The driving and car model is a reference to Romeo + Juliet.https://youtu.be/RiCQR-h3U6IThis movie was major influence for FF8. For example Squall receiving a scar at the start of the game came from this movie.Regarding the plate itself:WH stands for Winhill;163 stands for Rinoa's Height 163cm;7551 has thus far been a dead-end.
>>737836045>but ultimately get proven wrong so easily that its more fun to watch them go.They haven't. Take this thread. You had an idiot just dismissing everything without engaging with any of the things discussing and then resorting to use Kitase's statement as a shield, this while purposely ignoring that the Kitase interview they were using ends with Kitase saying that Nomura or Nojima could have written the game with that intention in mind. Basically the dude was a midtwit.
The spin-off games already made canon that Rinoa is, indeed, Ultimecia.
>>737762302Reminder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa5gcYA8xf8
>>737774754>>737798001Huh, that title... The Sleeping Lion.In Ultimecia's castle there is a notoriously convoluted art gallery puzzle where you're to put some Latin words in place, making it read: VIVIDARIUM ET INTERVIGILIUM ET VIATOR, which translates to "In the Garden Sleeps a Messenger."Squall is arguably the "messenger" who grew up in the "garden" (Balamb), isn't he? Then titling an event centered around him "The Sleeping Lion" is a direct thematic continuation of that exact imagery.Nojima uses the concept of "sleep" as the primary narrative vehicle for the entire game. It is never just about resting; it is about hidden truths, buried pasts, and alternate realities:The Laguna sequences involve Squall and his team literally fall asleep to experience the past.Thanks to the GF-induced amnesia, memories aren’t erased but instead put to “sleep” deep in the characters’ subconscious, waiting for Ellone to awaken them.Sorceress Adel is kept in a state of suspended animation, magical sleep, in space, more specifically the Adel's Tomb.The painting puzzle itself where the boss hidden behind the Intervigilium (Sleep) painting is literally named Trauma. Nojima is overtly linking the concept of sleep to buried psychological trauma.
>>737836141look at the pic you quoted and realize the joke is that's all it takes to have more corroborated evidence than R = U
>>737837289It's a bad joke.
>>737799613>what circumstance leads to rinoa not having squalls ring and becoming ultimaciaIt's an acknowledged part of the lore that the Sorceress gains her power from a divine entity referred to as Hyne.It's also an acknowledged part that a Sorceress can only remain a Sorceress for a limited time until it starts to consume her.She has to pass the power on. If she doesn't, she cannot die - because the Sorceress is effectively immortal and can't die of natural causes. She'll be subjected to horrible, limitless, unending physical pain. Like she's literally being eaten inside-out.So here's a theory:That pain is actually Hyne coming out. A Sorceress isn't blessed by Hyne, she's containing it and siphoning off some of its powers in the process. She's a vessel in which it slowly gains the upper hand and is gestating - like a parasite. Hyne is, basically, an anti-Christ figure that isn't exactly born - but instead physically warps the Sorceress's body while body-jacking her. And the reason Ultimecia hates SeeD is because SeeD's original function wasn't to kill the Sorceress - but to protect and comfort her, and to help her find a successor. SeeD was meant to sustain the cycle of Hyne's prison.The intro with Rinoa standing lost in the field, is a common analogy for limbo in the afterlife: she's mentally stuck and imprisoned, because Hyne flipped the tables. No longer trapped by the Sorceress, it is instead trapping the Sorceress - having taken possession of her body. She's reaffirming the promise Squall made to her, to always come for her.When Squall kills Ultimecia he's killing Rinoa.But: time compression, all time is one at that point. Which includes a point in time where Rinoa still lives and is not yet fated to become Ultimecia. That's the difference between two-ringed Rinoa and one-ringed Rinoa. Basically, when Rinoa once again has only one ring, it is her from before the bad timeline that would end in Ultimecia being created. And the cycle is broken there.
>>737836406>resorting to use Kitase's statement as a shieldIronic considering people will say him saying he's not a mind reader means R = U is back on the table when it's still all speculation
>>737837335 (cont.)In other words:Ultimecia isn't Rinoa. Ultimecia is Hyne, stealing Rinoa's body and being able to fuck with everyone psychologically - e.g. by using Griever, by knowing about Rinoa's pinky finger mannerism, etc. because it has access to her memories.
>>737837316You can't refute it though
>>737837552>Ultimecia isn't RinoaBut they IS same alternate person.
>>737837157Visually, the rolling green plains and the open sky immediately recall the flower field behind the orphanage. This location is the emotional anchor of Final Fantasy VIII.It is where Squall’s core childhood trauma stems from (waiting in the rain for Ellone to return).It is the site of the fateful promise between Squall and Rinoa ("I'll be here...").It is the exact location where Ultimecia's Castle eventually anchors itself in the future.Let's look at that Latin word again: Viator. It translates directly to "traveler," "wayfarer," or "messenger." Squall is the literal time-traveler. At the end of the game, after defeating Ultimecia, Squall falls backward through the compressed timeline. Where does he land? He lands at the exact location depicted in that painting: Edea's Orphanage in the past. He approaches Edea and tells her about Garden and SeeD, concepts she had not yet conceived. He is the Viator delivering the message that sets the entire timeline in motion. By delivering this message, he ensures Garden is built. He ensures he will be sent there, ensuring his childhood isolation, his loss of memories (the "sleep"), and his profound emotional scarring.The plaque also reads Vividarium, which translates from Latin to an enclosed park, courtyard, or Garden. While Balamb Garden is a highly advanced, futuristic facility, its design heavily incorporates open green spaces, water features, and expansive quads. The painting acts as a romanticized, almost mythic representation of a "Garden." If Squall is the "Messenger" from the "Garden," the painting is literally showing us his origins.It is the Orphanage. It represents the Garden he conceptualized. He is the Messenger who traveled through time to stand in that field. And the entity guarding that realization, the monster literally sleeping behind the canvas: it is Trauma.I want to fucking cum all over this game, man. I fucking love FF8!
>>737837769play the truly underrated FF games: the FF13 series. They aged super well visually and musically. The games are like 15 years old almost and still look fantastic.
>>737838387I've played the older games. Love me some, FF. I even read some of the fucking mangas and novels, like the FF3 manga. Though, to be fair, i read it mostly to learn what they changed regarding Hein/Hyne,But i'd be lying if didn't acknowledge that FF8 has some of the tightest and, BY GAWD, gripping... hnnn... lore.
>>737838661I liked the FF manga.
>>737838786there is an enemy in FF2 that looks like this but he has a staff I forgot its name its like a litenutant in that gay ass Emperor's army. I like that you can teleport almost every enemy away in FF2 which means the FF2 party could be one of the sources for why there is recurring enemies in other FFs they are teleporting them into other worlds.
>>737839410That is an interesting concept to explain the abundance of monsters in other worlds.
>>737838387leave queen hayley out of your bullshit kthnxbai
The name Ultimecia comes from the Latin word “ultimare,” meaning “last” or “final,” which suits her perfectly as the game’s final antagonist and the climax of the players’ journey. The suffix “-cia” is often linked to feminine names in various languages, giving her a distinct identity. In essence, “Sorceress Ultimecia” translates to “The Last Sorceress,” which, by coincidence, is spot on. Since her powers reach into the past instead of the future, no other sorceresses will follow her.It’s known that “Ultimecia” is actually a mistranslation linked to the spell “Ultima,” a powerful and recurring ability in many Final Fantasy games, often tied to immense strength and finality. In the original Japanese, “Ultima” is called “Arutema,” and “Ultimecia” is “Arutimishia,” which likely helped cause the translation mix-up. The name should have been “Artemisia,” matching the Japanese phonetic rendering (アルティミシア). So the localization team faced a dilemma: keep the historical reference to Artemisia, or lean into the iconic Final Fantasy spell "Ultima". They chose the latter, creating "Ultimecia" to sound like a natural extension of the ultimate magic.Artemisia was a brilliant naval strategist who took the throne after the death of her brother and husband, King Mausolus, the king of Caria. In her grief, she not only drank his ashes to become his living tomb but also commissioned one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World: the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus. Completed in 353 B.C., this grand tomb was celebrated for its stunning architecture and artistry, serving as a testament to Mausolus’s greatness and Artemisia’s deep love. Interestingly, King Mausolus’s symbol was the lion, which adorned the coins of the era, often accompanied, intriguingly, by shooting stars.This, coincidentally or not, also ties FFVIII to FFV. Halicarnassus also serves as the title for one of FFV’s bosses.
>>737839927she self-censored herself because of feminismfuck hayley williams (literally)
>>737840542she did it because she grew as a person and didnt feel that song reflected her anymore
>>737840661because whore is to women as nigger is to blacks
>>737840992you are an idiot
>>737841060ok dudedefending radical feminism isn't going to do you any favors
>>737841197>removing the word "whore" from an old song >radical feminism
>>737840115As we established, the name "Artemisia" derives from the Greek goddess Artemis. In classical mythology, Artemis is part of the archetypal Triple Goddess triad, Maiden, Mother, and Crone, which perfectly maps onto the three primary sorceresses of the game.The Maiden (Artemis/Diana - Rinoa): Artemis is the virgin goddess of the wilderness and the hunt. Rinoa flawlessly embodies this. Rather than a traditional princess, she is an aristocratic rebel who fights using a wrist-mounted crossbow and is accompanied by a highly trained hunting hound (Angelo). She is the literal Huntress Maiden.The Mother (Selene/Luna - Edea): Selene represents the moon and maturity. Edea is literally introduced by the title "Matron" (or Mazā/Mother in Japanese), as she nurtured and raised the entire main cast. Her connection to the lunar aspect is realized through her possession and manipulation of the Lunatic Pandora.The Crone (Hecate/Trivia - Ultimecia): Hecate is the goddess of the underworld, witchcraft, and liminal spaces. Ultimecia rules over a hellish, dead future. She commands true witchcraft and her ultimate goal, Time Compression, is the creation of the ultimate liminal space, a purgatory where past, present, and future collide. Furthermore, she summons Griever, who bears the stag horns sacred to both Artemis and Hecate.
>>737841382yesthey take words like whore and slut as personal attacks, believing that they only pertain to women
As someone who is literally playing through FFVIII for the first time ever and has just entered disk 4, this thread is amazing.up until now I thought it was kinda shit, but all this ''hidden'' lore and story is amazing
>>737841471in that song it was literally aimed at a specific woman
>>737841387The Roman name for Selene is Luna, which directly feeds into the Lunatic Pandora ("Pandora of the Moon"). In the patriarchal myth of ancient Greece, Pandora was the first woman, created to open a vessel that unleashed evil and suffering upon mankind. In FFVIII, this vessel is the block-shaped Lunatic Pandora, and the "evil" it unleashes are the monsters from the moon.However, to understand why the moon is the source of this chaotic, monster-spawning energy, we have to look at how ancient Greek society viewed female biology and its connection to the lunar cycle.The word "lunatic" stems from lunaticus, meaning "moon-struck." In classical antiquity, the moon, with its roughly 28-day cycle, was believed to have absolute dominion over women's bodies, specifically tying it to the menstrual cycle. The moon governed the physical "tides" of female biology.Greek medical texts, including those from the Hippocratic corpus, operated on the belief that the womb was essentially an independent, animalistic entity within a woman, the "Wandering Womb". If not "tamed" by pregnancy, they believed the womb would wander throughout the body, causing suffocation, erratic behavior, and madness. This concept birthed the medical diagnosis of "hysteria" (derived from hystera, the Greek word for uterus). The ancient Greeks literally linked female reproductive biology to inherent, unavoidable periods of "craziness."When we apply this to the game's lore, the fact that only women can be Sorceresses, and that their ultimate weapon is tied to the moon, is not a coincidence. It is a manifestation of that ancient fear of female power and biology.
>>737841964As in Luna Platz?
>>737841964>It is a manifestation of that ancient fear of femaleI, too, am terrified of w*men.
>>737839927>>737840542>>737840661>>737840992>>737841060>>737841197>>737841382>>737841471>>737841804
>>737764117>The game tells you there's many more in hiding.who?where?
>>737768826>To solve this, she swallowed her pride and traveled to Esthar to work with the brilliant-but-amoral Dr. Odine. By allowing him to study her innate Magic, she gave him the biological data he needed to synthesize the Guardian Force Junction System and Para-Magic.>Once the technology was perfected, Edea and Cid secured it.lmao good headcanon
>>737842648leave queen hayley out of your bullshitkthnxbai
>>737770326>They do not have GFs junctioned to their minds. Instead, the Galbadian military infuses Dr. Odine's Para-Magic directly into their weapons and bionic armor.hahahahahahahaha kekekekekekekekekekekek
>>737770556>FF8 does hold a deep lore.beacause you mix the game's script with your fanfiction
>>737843220#gottem
>>737836303>WH stands for Winhill;>163 stands for Rinoa's Height 163cm;>7551 has thus far been a dead-end....W=width, H=height163W -> longitude55H -> latitudeTell me; has anyone ever bothered checking the map at those coordinates?
>>737841964This biological framework reframes the Lunar Cry. It is not just a gravitational anomaly; it is a violent, cyclical, cosmic menstruation. The moon reaches a critical mass of chaotic energy and literally "bleeds" a tear of monsters onto the Earth's surface, purging its buildup.This brings us to how the event is triggered. In antiquity, lunar eclipses were blamed on witches, particularly those from Thessaly (like the astronomer Aglaonice). It was believed these witches, known as the Witches of Thessaly, possessed the power to literally "bring down the moon" (katabibazein ten selenen) through dark incantations.In FFVIII, this historical myth is mechanized. The Sorceress (Adel, and later Ultimecia using Edea) utilizes the Lunatic Pandora to forcibly induce the Lunar Cry, dragging the moon's chaotic, "hysterical" energy down to the planet.By linking the Lunatic Pandora to the moon, the developers weaponized the ancient Greek fear of the female body. The Sorceresses use the very source of their mythological "madness" to drown the world in monsters.Square Enix confirmed this entire Hellenistic blueprint during Final Fantasy XIV's FFVIII-themed Eden raid. Visually, Ultimecia's surreal, god-like final form, with a female humanoid hanging from a multi-layered cosmic torso of a faceless being, is a direct interpretation of the Ephesian Artemis. Unlike the traditional Greek Huntress, as a nimble huntress, the Artemis of Ephesus (a city located in the same geographic region as Halicarnassus) was worshipped as a multi-noded, supreme mother goddess of fertility and cosmic power. Her famous cult statue is adorned with multiple node-like protrusions across her chest (often interpreted as breasts, bull testicles, gourds, and more recently by historians as behaves) to symbolize extreme fertility and cosmic power.Nobody caught me messing my posts. Shut up.
>>737843024why would yelyah lurk video game boards... hmmm. are you yelyah? she is known to lurk the internet a lot.
>>737785039>The localization raped all of that.Damn gringos.
>>737843863The developers further validated the psychological layers of the final battle by assigning highly specific philosophical subtitles to each raid boss phase, see here >>737789062:Cloud of Darkness (Umbra): The absolute dark core of a shadow. Ultimecia operating from the shadows of the future, finally revealing herself.Fatebreaker (Anamorphosis): A distorted projection. Griever is not a real GF; he is an anamorphosis, Squall's idealized concept of a lion distorted and weaponized by the Sorceress.Shadowkeeper (Litany): A desperate, repetitive prayer. The shattered Sorceress forcefully junctioning herself to the legendary beast in a furious, repetitive cycle of high-level magic to stay alive.Eden's Promise (Eternity): The state outside the flow of time. The Ephesian deity form achieving Time Compression, attempting to forge a static singularity.To combat the divine Sorceresses, mortals must rely on Guardian Forces. GFs act as Socratic Daimones, intermediary spirits that bond with human consciousness to grant them a fraction of divine power. However, this Promethean theft comes at a terrible cost, one that echoes the deepest fears of ancient Greek theology: the total erasure of identity.In Mobius Final Fantasy, Ultimecia uses the imagery of the beach to describe time, as seen here >>737801787, stating that all moments fade into nothingness "much as the tide recedes back into the ocean." In ancient Greek cosmology, Okeanos (Oceanus) was not just a sea; it was the primordial, world-encircling river from which all time, life, and existence flowed, and eventually returned.Within this cosmic ocean flows the River Lethe (Forgetfulness). In the Greek Underworld, souls are forced to drink from the Lethe to erase their earthly memories before reincarnation. Because GFs occupy the memory sector of the human brain, utilizing these daimones forces the SeeD cadets to constantly drink from the Lethe. They sacrifice their past (Mnemosyne) to survive the present.
>>737844919When a Greek soul drank entirely of the Lethe and lost its memories, it did not just forget its past; it lost its fundamental identity, becoming an eidolon (an empty shell, a phantom, or a shade). An eidolon is a hollow husk of a person that wanders the underworld without purpose or face.This is exactly what Nojima is literalizing with the terrifying faceless imagery seen in the game's ending FMV (faceless Squall) and the hollowed-out character models of Adel and Ultimecia.In the Mobius event, as seen here >>737771141, Ultimecia explicitly threatens Squall with this exact mythological fate.Memory loss in the FFVIII universe is not forgetting where you left your keys; it is the literal hollowing out of the soul. To lose your memory is to lose your face, your "prosopon" (the Greek word for both 'face' and 'persona'). You dissolve into an eidolon.According to the game's legend, Hyne created humanity but eventually shed his magical half ("Magic Hyne") to hide from them, leaving behind a powerless, physical body ("The cast-off Shell of Hyne"). Sorceresses are the descendants who inherited this "Magic Hyne."If we apply Hellenistic Gnosticism here, Hyne operates as the ultimate Demiurge or Supreme Archon, an ancient, alien creator-god whose power is intrinsically parasitic.If a lesser daimon (a GF) can hollow out a normal human's memory by simply resting in their mind, what does the supreme magic of the Demiurge do to a human host?The tragic reality of the Sorceresses is that Hyne is a macro-GF. The boundless magical power they inherit acts as an apex parasite. Over generations, "Magic Hyne" slowly consumes the Sorceress's humanity, memories, and sanity from the inside out, turning them into exactly what Hyne left behind: a hollow, cast-off Shell.This perfectly explains the monstrous, almost inhuman physiological state of Sorceress Adel, and the desperate, time-obsessed madness of Ultimecia. They are being hollowed out by the Archon they harbor.
>>737788438>since he got the gift of the goddess in CC.non canon
>>737788792Lol they gave them a reunion in EC and it wasn't romantic at all. In the end zack left with angeal lmao
>>737845346The genius is that the mythological framework is built into the game's world map. In the game's lore, Centra is the cradle of human civilization and the origin point of the Sorceresses. It represents the height of classical antiquity. Just as the Roman Empire collapsed, Centra was utterly decimated by a cataclysm, the Lunar Cry. When you visit the Centra Ruins, you are physically walking through the remnants of a fallen Greco-Roman world. Following the fall of the real-world Roman Empire, civilization fractured into two distinct halves. The lore of FFVIII flawlessly recreates this schism with the survivors of Centra:The West (The Holy Roman Empire): The survivors who fled west founded the Holy Dollet Empire (eventually leading to the rise of Galbadia). This mirrors the Holy Roman Empire, a fragmented, politically volatile, European-styled power. Galbadia represents the 20th-century Western world, specifically Europe, wrapped in the aesthetics of a World War II superpower. This explains the distinctly French aesthetics of the western continent. Deling City is heavily inspired by Paris, featuring a massive replica of the Arc de Triomphe and wide, Champs-Élysées-style avenues. Nearby Dollet is filled with French bistros, cobblestone streets, and European canal architecture. Beneath the romantic Parisian veneer lies a fascist, expansionist military state.The East (The Byzantine Empire): The survivors who fled east founded Esthar. Historically, the eastern half of the fallen Roman Empire became the Byzantine Empire, a power that was highly advanced, culturally isolated, and deeply secretive. Esthar perfectly mirrors this. It is a hyper-futuristic, technologically unmatched civilization that literally cloaks its borders from the outside world. Fittingly, it was ruled by Sorceress Adel, who acted as an absolute, untouchable Byzantine autocrat.
>>737845976After the Sorceress War, Esthar sealed its borders completely. This mirrors the historical Sakoku (isolationist) period of Japan, or the impenetrable nature of nations behind the Iron Curtain (USSR/China). They are geographically isolated in the East, possessing technology decades ahead of the rest of the world.But the Wizard of Oz parallel is where the world-building shines the brightest:The Yellow Brick Road: To reach Esthar, Squall and his team must embark on an agonizing, desolate trek across a frozen wasteland (the Great Salt Lake/Horizon Bridge).The Emerald City: Just as Dorothy approaches a seemingly empty horizon only to have the shimmering green towers of the Emerald City revealed, the party crosses the salt flats until Esthar’s Optical Camouflage malfunctions. The veil drops, revealing a blindingly vibrant, hyper-futuristic, colorful city made of glass and light.The Man Behind the Curtain: If Esthar is the Emerald City, who rules it? A literal "Wizard" behind a curtain: Laguna Loire. Just like the Wizard of Oz, Laguna is not a powerful, divine Sorceress; he is an ordinary, bumbling man from a mundane place who ended up ruling a magical, futuristic city through sheer luck, smoke-and-mirrors, and a good heart.Now wait a bit, because i'm cooking here with the Wizard of Oz thing to show how FFVIII operate on several levels using witch mythology, even pop-culture.
>>737788792Kek tifa femcel madSorry Cloud's n1 will always be aerith
>>737846719When you align the geopolitical map of FFVIII with the land of Oz, the Sorceresses perfectly fill the roles of the Witches of the East and West. In the Wizard of Oz, the Wicked Witch of the East is a brutal, tyrannical dictator who rules over Munchkinland until she is suddenly and violently crushed, kicking off the events of the story. Esthar is the easternmost superpower on the game's map and Adel’s reign ends not in a traditional magical duel, but through a bizarre, elaborate trap engineered by Odine and Laguna. They essentially "drop a house" on her by tricking her into a containment vessel, freezing her, and launching her into space. Her abrupt removal from the board leaves the East free, allowing Laguna (the Wizard) to take control of the Emerald City.With the East freed, the primary antagonist becomes the Wicked Witch of the West, who sets out to terrorize the heroes and avenge/absorb the power of the East.Galbadia is the western superpower. When Ultimecia possesses Edea, she immediately establishes her base of operations in the West, taking control of the Galbadian military. The tragedy here is that Edea's true personality is essentially Glinda the Good Witch, the benevolent, maternal figure who wants to protect the children. Ultimecia hijacks this "Good Witch," twisting her into the Wicked Witch of the West to wage war on Dorothy and her friends.The parallels between Rinoa and Dorothy are undeniable, right down to the pets. Rinoa is a civilian girl swept up in a massive, chaotic "twister" (the Sorceress War). She is completely out of her depth, and she is accompanied everywhere by her fiercely loyal little dog, Angelo. In the third act of the game, Rinoa is afflicted by a terrible magical curse (inheriting Sorceress powers). To save her, the party literally has to walk down a long, yellow road (the Horizon Bridge spanning the Great Salt Lake) to reach the Emerald City (Esthar) to ask the great and powerful Wizard (Laguna) to fix her.
>>737846767Why does SE make fun of them?
>>737847082in Japan most people like Tifa because they like asian women and Aerith looks too white.Tifa is going to end up winning in Reunion. Because thats what makes sense. The "below the highwind" stuff is going to be implied (again).
>>737847258>in Japan most people like Tifa because they like asian women and Aerith looks too white.Actually no. Aerith is more popular in JP for some reason and has been since OG. I theorize it's because when the game released there there was no 'aerith dies' spoilers plastered everywhere so people pursued her more, while in the west many knew she dies so they thought she isn't worth using. >Tifa is going to end up winning in Reunion. Because thats what makes sense. The "below the highwind" stuff is going to be implied (again).It's going to be optional (again) and the game is rated T so don't know how sexual they can get (I know of some way less sexual stuff that got cut from Rebirth due to the rating (and the Saudi market)).No one will win, the topic gives the money
>>737847457yea but not in the new one, the remake version
>>737846890When you see the game through these three lenses, the Hellenistic Mythology, the World War Geopolitics, and the American Fairy Tale, the game stops being a simple sci-fi romance. It reveals itself as a critique on the exploitation of youth, systemic trauma, and the illusion of the adult world.In this world, power requires the sacrifice of the self. The children of FFVIII are not choosing to forget; they are being forced to trade their childhood memories just to survive the world the adults have built. They are slowly being hollowed into eidola (empty shells). The adults failed. Cid, Edea, Laguna, Caraway, and Odine fought a brutal war decades ago, and rather than fixing the world, they built systems to perpetuate the violence. The Gardens are not schools; they are PMC factories mass-producing child soldiers. The game is almost a critique at how the older generation, traumatized by their own wars, institutionalizes the next generation to fight their unresolved battles, sacrificing their childhoods and generating new traumas in the process.
>>737770539honestly for 1999 this cutscene is really well made wtf lol
>>737788891>For example, right now i am doing a new speedrun of the game all because i want to investigate the colors Rinoa, Ellone, Edea, Adel, and Ultimecia MIGHT exhibit. Because i feel there must be some hidden shit in the mechanics of the game point to Hyne.just get a job or have kids man before you go complete crazy
>>737848332
>>737848364What's up with these images?
>>737850120its barry a local meme of a guy that likes Final Fantasy 15 so much he styled himself as Noctis the protagonist.
>>737792821wow they reused some puzzle? CONNECTION!!!!
>>737847082Rare based moment from SE. Overall they are afraid of shippers like the plague
>>737794586>Ultimecia and Rinoa in-game model have the same exact height.hmmm weird
>>737850547Lots of weird connections, indeed.
>>737797593>Raine got pregnant, gave birth then died. Next thing we know Ellone and Squall are both at an orphanage. Kiros talks to Squall about how it's good that he resembles his mother and not his father. There's plenty of corroboration in comparison to R = U being completely speculative.b-b-but the developers haven't confirmed it
>>737850280>CONNECTION!!!!true
>>737850280Connections are fun, faggot.
>>737850684>reddit.com.pngwhy
>>737850810FF8 = FF3coincidence?
>>737799858>google translateKEK
>>737850684>Bro did you know Rinoa lived in a house, and Ultimecia also lived in a house?This is so insanely cringe dude. The two aesthetics have literally nothing in common beyond "front door flanked by two towers".
>>737850884
Ellone potentially had a big role in Ultimecia becoming able to drift through time as well.
>>737851195CRAZY
>>737851294Here's a funny twist, Ellone can only send someone to the past that she lived and to the people that she knew. So that means sending Squall to Laguna's body, because she knew both and lived with them. But Ultimecia, using a machine that replicate Ellone's powers, managed to travel to the past.
>>737848259For me, it's the context surrounding it>Irvine JUST fucked up his only job, ventilating the head of the sorceress Edea, which for the last few hours has been your entire assassination mission. You have gone to great lengths to give this guy, a venerated sharpshooter from a well known garden, the opportunity he just flubbed, and now one of the most dangerous women on the planet and her personal guard knows someone is here to kill her>Instead of just crying and going ABORT MISSION BOYS IT'S ALL OGRE, Squall immediately leaps into action with Plan B, doing what you see here, aka immediately commandeering a vehicle to head-on assault Edea, by himself no lessSquall gets a lot of shit as an emo but he has some pretty fucking baller moments in the game honestly
I'm going to laugh when Kingdom Hearts 4 has an extensive Squall storyline which confirms R=U.
>>737851952It unironically can be possible.
>>737851994>>737851952Not to mention the whole overarching arc, that seems straight out of FF8.
>>737851657>Irvine JUST fucked up his only jobIrvine gets a lot of shit for this, but he didn't actually choke or anything. He gets over the immediate shock and makes the shot, but it doesn't work. It's pretty understandable.
>>737851657thats because Ivine is the only guy that remembers that Edea: The Witch was basically his mother figure growing up at the orphanage for special kids that use gfs, not to be confused with girlfriends, it means guardian force which is basically magical summons that grant people magic powers. Anyway yeah... I agree.
>>737852257>>737852331Yeah, this.Irvine recalled who the fearsome Sorceress was, their Matron. That's why he choked. He only made the shot when Squall said it didn't need to hit her, just serve as a signal for them to act.
>>737851409That's no twist at all. Odine mentions he has been trying to make a machine that mimics Ellone's powers (but has yet to be successful in the present). He will either finish it eventually or others will pick up his research and finish it - either of which will have happened before Ultimecia shows up in the timeline.
>>737852697That’s not the twist. The real twist is that Ultimecia, a sorceress from the distant future, used the Junction Machine Ellone to project her consciousness into the far past, manipulating the minds of sorceresses in the game’s present. That means Ultimecia had to know those sorceresses beforehand.
>>737852824Yeah, because history wrote it down, just like how history wrote how SeeD defeated a witch from the future. Defying fate is not the message of FF8, its message is you are a slave to it. Ulti herself by trying to escape being the demon lord that would get defeated by the hero, started it by going back in time.
>>737853270But answer me this:How did Ultimecia, far in the future, manage to send her consciousness to the distant past using the Junction Machine Ellone? She must have known someone from that era to make it possible.Ellone, for example, wouldn't be able to send Squall to someone that she didn't personally knew beforehand.
Wait a minute... the ending shows that it was the Time Compression that sent Ultimecia physically into the distant past, resulting in her possessing Edea! But the game also says that Ultimecia sent her consciousness back to possess Edea using the so-called Junction Machine Ellone, which may have been completed in her time.So which is it?
>>737853340Why didn't she just junction herself to Ellone since Rinoa personally knew her, instead of wasting time trying to hunt her down using an Edea meat puppet? That is if R=U?FF8 just kind of has a lot of plot holes.
>>737852824Anon, sorceresses inherit parts of memories from those who pass on their powers. Rinoa and Edea both talk about Ultimecia's memories (and Adel's, too - briefly for Rinoa. Edea also talks about having memories from the original Ultimecia passing on powers, too. The last sorceress on the planet would have a bevy of memories to draw from. The machine just wasn't powerful enough to reach back to the beginning, only the real Ellone had that power.
>>737853590>Why didn't she just junction herself to Ellone since Rinoa personally knew her, instead of wasting time trying to hunt her down using an Edea meat puppet? That is if R=U?The Nojima's text and the opening FMV can be used to explain. It is shown that Rinoa lost her memories, possibly because of the effects of Time Compression. She doesn't even remember who Squall is, just that she is waiting someone. There, answered.
>>737850723Explain why Kiros comments on Squall's mom and dad if he's not Laguna and Raine's kid
>>737853672If that's true, Ultimecia should have known who Squall was, but she doesn't.It’s also a plot point that Edea locked her mind and willingly surrendered herself so Ultimecia couldn’t access her memories to learn more about Ellone.
>>737851057if you're going to dispute the translation then point out which words represent "single"
>>737853787She may have known but what does she care? Her goal is to reach the beginning of time and cast the spell to compress it. She only needs Ellone for that so she uses the machine to go to the era in which she is alive. She assumes once compression starts that she is golden.
>>737853954Why have Seifer torture Squall then?
>>737853998If she really wanted the answer she would have done it herself. Remember, she trusts no one and is so afraid of her own death that she is doing all of this nonsense to begin with. That is just busy work for Seifer.
>>737854115I don't know, man. I find that weak.Edea says she willingly gave up her body to protect her mind.Ultimecia clearly wasn't sure if Squall was the legendary SeeD.She had Seifer torture Squall for more information. She also was unaware of where Ellone is.
If Ulti knew that SeeD was going to take her down, why did she not know the specific SeeD? I would think that would be important information for history to write down.
