shmups. if there was a test at how good you were at video games it would be a shmup. the combination of visual processing, reaction time and dexterity is unrivaled
>b-b-b-but memorization!
you don't have to

>>737855823
How are shmups harder than fighting games, where you also need these skills, except way more of them and memorization won't get you anywhere?

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>Fighting games didn't even make the list
The fuck was this, a woman only "hardcore" list?

>>737856098
saying fighting games have less memorization than shmups is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this site

mobas, shmups, fightans all require a stupid amount of memorization because you have to know *the meta*
don't know the meta? you fucking lose. except in fightan gaems actually where some random off the street can/have beaten champions just because champions don't know how to react to unpredictable n00b inputs.

>>737856121
It's about how hardcore(as in dedicated) you are about gaming - not a judgement of how hardcore the gameplay of these games are.
Meaning hours spent playing per period of time(like a week)
Obviously games like MMO and MOBA will be first because of simple logistics and math. Almost nobody plays fighting games 6+ hours per day for example/

>>737856121
It’s not a list of game genre difficulty but rather if playing a certain genre makes you identify as a "gamer". That said it’s a useless list and unrelated to the OP.

>>737856224
It's different and you know it. Fighting games have knowledge checks, but you can't memorize your way through a fight because it's PvP and every person does things differently. Meanwhile shmups are almost purely memorization. I remember when after struggling for weeks to 1cc TH7 I just watched a video of someone doing it, learned the routes and 1ccd it immediately.

>>737855823
This. Shmups test reaction times and memorization but unlike fighting games where the difficulty comes from other players shmup difficulty comes from the games themselves. In this sense there’s no competition.

>>737856348
>>737856396
And how does it disqualify fighting games??? You have to put in MMO hours to get good at fighting games. Again The fuck was this, a woman only "hardcore" list?

>>737856332
I recently got into fighting games and love it so much. It's just so intense and maybe the most intellectual game I've ever played. And I was always turned off by fighting games (back when I didn't understand them) so this is very unexpected.

Fighting someone is like a game of chess except even better. What are they going to do? Are they going to jump? Are they going to strike, or are they going for a throw? If they use a special here, what are my options? I feel like I'm squeezing every drop of my brain when playing a match.

And yes, it is cool that in this genre newbies can beat veterans just by spamming weird moves. But this is a problem with these veterans. Fighting noobs with high level play is like doing card tricks for a dog. You need to meet them at their level and outnoob them with even more insane moves.

is shmups requiring memorization a new meme or something. the games are like 20 minutes long and the only real things you can memorize is stuff like
>this boss fires this projectile that does this
it's not autistically memorizing patterns or routes like >>737856407 is saying, I mean you can do that but you basically just cheated yourself
>I got a 1cc after cheating!
if you spent weeks going for a 1cc by yourself and you couldn't get it... you still didn't get a 1cc. Try for a 1cc in touhou 6 or 8 now instead of cheating yourself.

>>737856534
>>737856396
>>737856348
My interpretation is that this is simply the share of players that game as their main hobby. So for instance 67% of sports players are casual whereas 33% are actual "gamers".

>>737856616
It is literally about memorizing routes anon, no idea who you're trying to fool here

You can argue that the game is about figuring the routes out by yourself, but by this metric I could argue that the hardest game ever is OSRS because good luck completing its quests without external help

>>737855413
RTS = Fighting Games = Moba = Shooters (comp) > Everything else
>M-muh schmups and Osu
Oh I'm sure memorization is challenging for you, troon.

I guarantee you gachafags were like "I play the LE GENSHIN and dat their HONKY STAR, also WITHERING WAVES, so I'm clearly an MMO player."

Gacha should have had its own category to at least separate it. I don't consider gacha games to be MMO's, despite having the elements of an MMO.

>>737856564
Fighting games are equivalent to boxing, RTS games are chess.

>>737856738
>Moba = Shooters (comp)
How did it feel to be in elementary school when covid hit?

>>737855413
What kinda metric did they use? Play time & frequency of playing?
I'm sure roguelike deckbuilders, PvP autobattlers and even some grindy F2P mobile games would rank higher than simulation. Everyone would agree those genre are not hardcore.

>>737855413
The top 3 aren’t hard, they’re time sinks. If being hardcore means grinding for days or even weeks, then maybe the casuals have a point.

>>737856684
I hate to break it to you but you can just play touhou without a "route". I have 1cc's on touhou (granted none on lunatic or anything, I don't have time for that specifically) but I've never ever ever cared about a route at all, genuinely. normal people don't play touhou and follow a "route". It just sounds like you cheated yourself out of the game for no reason. What even is your "route"? Does it just tell you to move to the top right of the screen for a certain bosses attack or something? I really don't understand

>>737856768
RTS is what you think is going to be chess when you start playing, but then you realize the game is just a huge ball of macro check until very high ranks where people allegedly start making strategic decisions. Until at least platinum all matches get resolved by someone reaching a huge ball of units and attack-movingfirst. At least this was my experience with SC2.

Fighting games you go in expecting nothing but brainless button mashing, then you realize that while still in Silver 2 you and your opponent are already playing 4D chess and matches are actually decided by strategic decisions and mind games.

In this sense you are correct that RTS is closer to chess, because that's chess in a nutshell. There are no mind games until a very high level of play.

>>737856836
Yeah, gookclick is overrated as fuck and should be below shooters.

>>737856887
>What even is your "route"? Does it just tell you to move to the top right of the screen for a certain bosses attack or something? I really don't understand
The specific path through a boss's attack, yes

If you try to dodge everything through sheer reaction you are wasting your time and you won't 1cc it, especially the many games with irregular bullets that shift and curve their path depending on your position except in cryptic ways

There is always a very simple path you can do around this that the game hides from you

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>Within the bullet hell genre, Saidaioujou became famous for its difficulty. The game's true final boss (Inbachi) is so difficult that it would not be beaten, without using continues, until 12 years after the game's release.
Any other examples?

>>737855413
FIghting games
Bullet hell
Arena FPS

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I'm currently enjoying a sportsball game..

>>737856929
The irony is that low tier RTS games being 2 retards smashing their army men against each other until one has a moment of clarity and does something novel, like sneak some units to their opponents economy and smash some production buildings.

>>737857029
>There is always a very simple path you can do around this that the game hides from you
it's called developer oversight because it's one guy making the game. He is not designing these elaborate patterns for you in hopes of you ping off to one corner of the screen and completely avoiding them. This is one case where you are literally playing the game entirely wrong, I don't know what else to tell you. Try playing the games on easy, if you're already playing on easy mode. or just try other games that ease you into shmups if you have a genuine interest in them and aren't just in it for the cred or something silly

>>737856738
Having a system where you need to be top X % of players to achieve the highest rank inherently makes that goal unachievable for the vast majority of people
SHMUPs and older arcade games are meant to be cleared by everyone who puts in the time & effort
So saying PvP games are more hardcore than PvE is kind of a moot point

>>737855413
There is nothing hard about Shumps. 99% of them are easy as fuck. A casual can 1CC everything except shit like SDOJ and the other 1% shit.

Meanwhile if a Casual really did start playing and 1CC'ing shit you all would get butt hurt and demand them to go directly to CAVE slop lmao because the genre overall is not as difficult as everyone claims it to be

>>737856348
>Meaning hours spent playing per period of time
That would still be fighting games though. You're gonna suck ass unless you dedicate hours a day improving. It's why it struggles have a casual audience. It's not a genre you can just pick up and play without getting your ass kicked.

>>737855413
>number of players equals skill required
lol

>>737857401
You are really dumb aren't you? Are you a MOBA player, perchance?

>>737856616
>you basically just cheated yourself
Using your brain is cheating now ladies and gentlrmen! /v/ hit a new low, lower than "qualityslop".

>>737857491
>I literally couldn't beat this game until I went on youtube and someone else showed me how they came up with a way to beat the game
you cheated lolol

>>737857207
>Having a system where you need to be top X % of players
But this does not exist except for some esports right? Many competitive games have a problem of elo inflation

why do shmups cause so much seething, it's such an avoidable genre. It doesn't even really leak into other genres besides what, nier?

>>737857667
It's not really causing seething itt though? Just two people arguing, except the shmupfag (you) is samefagging.

>>737856887
I'm a shmup enjoyer but also a complete scrub
From my own experience, memorization is a clutch that helps me get through hard parts of stages that would otherwise end my run
It's not much different than learning the pattern of a difficult boss in any action game, knowing what's coming up makes the challenge more manageable

>>737857667
>why do shmups cause so much seething,
it's one person you idiot. no one cares about shmups. Stop and THINK

>>737857615
>Many competitive games have a problem of elo inflation
That's true, but don't they also usually create even higher ranks to make up for that?

>fighting games
>where there's bots on twitch that spam one button repeatedly and win most games
>where manchildren throw their controller after they lose
>Where you have to compete against barely any people because there's like 50 people on a popular tier fighting game at one time
they are so heckin hardcore bro. when it's a 1v1 there's no room for anything but pure skill

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>shmups are this, shmups are that
shmups are not games
games require competition
competition requires multiple players
shmups are toys

>>737858153
There are at least 500 Street Fighter pro players that can beat you without trying bro. But I would love to hear your legendary comeback about how much of a god you are in SF6

>>737858225
>games require competition
I guess single player games just don't exist.

>>737855413
Being a frequent gamer doesn't make you a hardcore gamer. Just an addicted retard

>>737855413
has to be MOBAs. it's 9 vs 1

>>737858780
they are also toys

>>737855413
>MMO
>hardcore
If their definition of hardcore is just how much time was spent in an otherwise mindless game

>>737856929
Starcraft is chess, SupCom is go.