Well?
>>737913007Definition of a faggot: OP.
Retard doesn't understand subgenres.
>>737913007i think deus ex and m&b aren't rules driven enough. mostly agree though
>>737913007I used to think I liked RPGs. Turns out I just like Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, the SNES Final Fantasies, the Mario RPGs, and Undertale. None of which are actual RPGs.
>>737913108Dark Souls is not an RPG. Leveling and stats barely matter.
Correct. The earliest of video game rpgs were only able to really translate the combat aspect to some degree which many jrpgs based themselves on, emulating basically an incomplete picture and building and evolving ontop of that incomplete foundation.
>>737913263Right, it's an ARPG.
>>737913353> copeARPGs are not RPGs.
Fantasy just means "le Fantasy World" nowadays.I remember when retards were calling the Witcher games an RPG.
>>737913007Weird as hell to include Deus Ex and M&B there, undermined his point because he just needs the games he likes to count.
actually the only genre is interactive fiction and all games are zorklikes
>>737913415RPG* just means
>>737913386Right, they're a subgenre of RPGs.
>>737913007>tabletop inspiredlol Literally only there so the bottom 4 get disqualified since they all pass the actual qualifiers.
>>737913007DQ at it's core is just a tabletop game, you can argue the grid based movement and mapping also comes from the tabletop inspirations
>>737913007Basically none of the Western RPGs qualify except for Baldur's Gate and the occasional isometric low budget game.
>>737913493Nope, it's a falsehood, promoted by jurnos. They are just actions games.
RPGs are tabletop games. If it's not tabletop then it's not an RPG. No, being 'tabletop-inspired' doesn't count.
>>737913263So playing the game without ever leveling up must be easy then.
>>737913690>So playing the game without ever leveling up must be easy then.It's totally doable. There are many speedruns without armor/leveling.
>>737913749I didn't type 'doable', I typed 'easy'.
>Definition of RPG: TTRPG, but vidyaWhat an odd thing to say.>>737913263They matter for magic builds with attunement especially, and for all equipment and spells with stat requirements. So they actually determine your build.
>>737913007how the fuck would do sex and mount and blade fit those qualifications but not jrpgs?
>>737913007According to his definition, your average JRPG would be more of an RPG than most the Ultima games. But of course he wants to appear sophisticated. So he just pulled up a list of classic RPGs and slapped a name he recognized to his list.t. someone that plays and enjoys both.
>>737913007Video games are not RPGs.
>>737913007He had to pay for that blue checkmark, right? Imagine literally spending money just so you can make posts like this.
>>737913007>WizardyImagine trying to seem knowledgeable about RPGs and botching the name of your second example
>>737913007>DeepSubjective.>tabletop-inspiredTrue but unnecessary in defining the genre.>custom character/partyThis gets you halfway to being an RPG but it's possible without it. For example, D&D players don't get to choose their party composition, and some players (especially new ones) will play pregen characters. Picking a pregen character doesn't stop D&D from being an RPG, right?>stat progressionYou actually don't need this in an RPG, but they all have it because people like progress and it helps bring people together who might have different powerlevel desires for their character.>tactical, rules-drivenMost games are.>stats & planningBecause you need absolute control over your character, that's the whole point of an RPG.>over reflexes/cinematicsNo.The reason TTRPGs don't have real-time action or cinematics is because they're TT. It is NOT because they are RPGs. Video games provide the possibility of real-time mechanics and stunning visuals which tabletop games can not. If you're making an RPG using the video game medium you should take advantage of it. Making a Tabletop Simulator would be a poor adaptation of the genre.There's no difference between what AA's saying here and suggesting that to make a good comic book film, you should copy and paste comic book panels into PowerPoint slides and play them in order.
>>737913007But JRPGs are Ultima-likes...
>>737913206you dont like ff9?
>>737915179I liked the PS1 FFs too.
>>737913007rpgs are bad then. got it.
>>737913007>Role-playing game>It's actually about le stats and leveling up and custom characters and strategiesGuess my favourite RPG is FIFA lmao
RPG is a social construct. It doesn't exist. There is no such thing.
>>737915026>The reason TTRPGs don't have real-time action or cinematics is because they're TT. It is NOT because they are RPGs.I don't necessarily agree with this. It's a common TTRPG mentality to separate the skill of the character from the skill of the player controlling the character. If your character is playing chess against someone, no (serious) DM is going to skill check you by putting an actual chess set in front of you, because you aren't your character.
>>737913007Mass Effect 1 belongs in top.Mass Effect 2 and 3 belong in bottom.
JRPG simply means a role playing game made in Japan. Dark Souls is a JRPG
>>737916750Is Portal an FPS?
roleplaying = abstraction the player is only using wits to pilot the character(s) whose stats determine outcomes of challengesthere are hybrid action-RPGs where this abstraction is outweighed by the player's mechanical skills, and thus no longer an RPG
>>737916852Of course. You just shoot portals instead of bullets
>>737916710yes. RPG elements simply means skills attributed the the character, and not the player
>>737916873no game has no player skill. therefore no game is rpg.
>>737916852No, it’s FPP (First Person Puzzler).
>>737913007
>>737917004what an awful decline
>>737916962your conclusion doesn't follow
I do think JRPGs often have no real reason to be called RPGs other than tradition. They're more like menu-based adventure games (or simply action-adventure, depending)
>Rules driven gameplayWhat does that even mean? You don't have a game if you don't have rules.
>>737917113all rpgs are actually isekais and therefore all use player skill / knowledge that the character wouldn't have. not even tabletop
>>737916962He means player skill on execution. The end result of dictating an action is through the stats of the character versus the difficulty of the task (aka stats of the task). All you can do is tell the character to do the action, it isn't like an action based game in which you time the attack or dodge to nab a hit or avoid damage. That sense of control is wrested from the player and falls upon the outcome from a roll between two different stat spreads.
>>737913007tabletopfags are the vegans of gaming
>>737913493If the extent of possible roleplay in a game is headcanon, it's not an RPG. And no, picking one of two endings does not make the entire game an RPG. I find some enjoyment in making an Elden Ring build to fit a character with appearance and motivations and whatnot, but the game itself is not tailored to actually let me make choices based on my character. I just kill people and then press a button to choose which color ending I want.
>>737913007Literally none of that shit is role play
>>737913263It is absolutely an JRPG because I can out level bosses and turn them into cakewalk.
>>737913007>Pakidemic agentWhat would some retard from the Middle East know about RPGs?There is no world in which Mount&Blade and Deus Ex are RPGs but the bottom ones aren't.
>>737917326sure, but that character's strategy is completely up to player skill. you have knowledge and experience the character wouldn't. unless you're rolling dice for every action they take, its the player directing and that's a skill / knowledge.
>>737913007Wizardry is a JRPG though...?
>>737913690Technically it is easy. There is no challenge as long as the player can move. SL1 challenges are just self imposed wank for people that pretend Dark Souls is difficult. And every time people pretend Souls is difficult, you look inside and see people completely ignoring 90% of the options available in the game because if you actually played the game you'd think it was piss with the amount of broken shit you can use. So, at a baseline, the game is easy although I'll admit if it's your first ever experience with games involving that reflexive style of damage mitigation then you will probably have a hard time. Ranting aside, there isn't anything that takes away the player's movement unless they get hit, but there isn't anything that the player can't simply sprint/jump/roll out of if they can react or predict. Therefore, all of the "RPG" aspects do not matter. They only increase your odds of surviving hits and the speed at which you kill things, but are otherwise entirely unnecessary.
>>737917118They're more true to the mission statement of early oDnD/1e/bx. While crpgs are trying to emulate 3rd edition and onwards where the game began to focus more on social roleplaying than actual stats and dungeon crawling.
>>737913007>PC gamesI fucking hate Europeans
>>737917420noobtraps and their whiners are a sign of this.experience and skill does matter in rpgs
>>737917420You're using skill as a blanket term and not dividing it up among different sets of skill. There is skill in making decisions, this is not what pertains on player skill being removed. Player skill is removed from executing an action. The success of the character in combat, to lock pick doors, to hide in the shadows, and so on are not based on the player executing inputs well. The success is based upon the characters stats matched against the challenges stats. Thus removing player execution skill.
>>737916920I disagree. It’s more puzzle game than shooter.The difference being the “win condition” in a puzzle game is a very narrow solution that you must do exactly the same way everytime to progress.In a proper shooter, player and enemy randomness will lead to encounters that are never exactly the same.
Why do people even care to debate this when RPGs, both Western and Japanese, largely stopped being a thing by the end of the 00s.
>>737913493A fart is a subgenre of a shit, you might hate the truth but it doesn't change the facts.
>>737917154like a tabletop turn based ruleset
>>737917721Im not disagreeing with that either
Are true RPGs like an IQ filter? I've never been able to understand them or card games. My brain literally can't into tactics
>>737917636that's pretty irrelevant ultimately.two different players playing the same character are going to display wildly different results simply because of how they control and direct that character.chess actually displays that pretty well.
>>737917713Clout is the primary commodity of the modern era
>>737917773But most of the game he listed as RPGs aren't turn-based
>>737913007>Deus ExThis is bait.
>>737917960as others said, deus and mount and blade don't really fit his definition
>>737918012because it's quite literally ''games I like: good, games that are popular and I don't: bad''There's zero logic to anything that fag has said, and even the RPG snobs at RPGcodex wouldn't agree with him.
>>737917881It is the ultimate relevance in the genre. In a table top setting when someone directs an attack at a foe and they roll the die, do you think they have an influence in the execution of the action? At most a small number of games give little influence to the player, but that's just to fudge a die roll, and they come with costs and aren't a common thing to actually do such as Shadowruns karma burning.Does rolling a die sound like player control in the outcome?
>>737918424they have an influence in when and where the action takes place. they are exerting their skill over controlling that player regardless of the action.it's really no different than twitch gameplay. watch an action rpg player play their character. the most important decisions aren't those particular actions (picking a lock in say bethesda games is trivial), swinging a big claymore just means you know how long it takes and the reach, it's knowing when, where and why.
>>737918579Do they have full control of the execution of the action like in a game such as Contra? In Contra you decide when you move, shoot, jump, and crouch. Or is Contra more like a table top game with a die and you have a chance to roll badly and when you press jump you just don't jump because that time Ray failed his athletics check?
>>737917401>>737917713The goal of the tweet was to get it posted on places like /v/ or reddit. Its a propaganda move to A) get his name out there to more normalfagsB) To encourage people like you itt to mentioning his other opinions or qualities. Discussion of the vidya categorisation is entirely arbitrary, the wording of the tweet was mostly irrelevant to the intention.The intention was to have a controversial video game take to have people talk about it and as a result advertise him.
>>737916750According to this retard Expedition 33 is a FRPG and not a JRPG. That's not how JRPG is categorized it's a style of subgenre that initially started in a geographical location but it doesn't mean the location is the genre.
>>737913007Role Playing Game:>You play a specific characterRoll Playing Game:>You create your own character
>>737918762you're splitting hairs. adding randomness doesn't change much. and a skilled player knows how to make it work for them. fps adds randomness to their bullets spreads.
>>737918806>Expedition 33 is a FRPG and not a JRPG.Unironically that anon is correct and you are wrong.I wouldnt call it an FRPG tho since thats not a standardised term, but yes if you do want to catagorise it as JRPG or FRPG. It would be closer to an FRPG as we begin to coin that term.
>>737918806E33 IS an frpg.Are you one of those retards that thinks rwby or the Castlevania Netflix show are anime?
>>737918998Please don't call the Japanese retards.
I just like the video games I like. I don't care much about genre autism.
rpg = melodrama, character party focus, gay sex and bad gameplay
>>737914001JRPGs specifically dont usually fit the western definition of RPGThey match instead with the japanese defintion of RPG.Which is why the west started calling them JRPGs.Jrpgs usually dont give you decision making over the narrative outcome.
>>737919407wrpgs basically never did until recently
>>737913007Nope, this is only muddying the water because it defines RPGs as video games only, but the tabletop games are also RPGs, so she still needs to provide a definition of them. I'll wait.
>>737919642I can't even think of one that gave narrative control. I think Mass Effect tried but it was a huge bust as everyone saw the 2 choice illusion in all the decisions.
>>737918948Hairs are not split. You're saying decisions cannot be divorced from execution when it comes to player skill.
>>737913007Actually only first person shooters that have both a stake gun and something that fires heat seeking projectiles is an RPG.
>>737918806J'Francais Role Playing Game
>>737913007Any game where I play a role is a RPG.
>>737918806Its is an frpg thoughbeit
>>737913007Ok but some japanese also are
>>737923173It's more like a French JRPG
>>737919407jrpgs are based off the dungeons&dragons formula and are more rpg than western second life simulators
>>737926569Dragon Quest doesn't resemble D&D outside of a fantastical setting. It wasn't until Final Fantasy literally lifted the Monster Manual and used spells per day that a jarpig even slightly resembled D&D.
>>737913007you play a role in a game. or did the words role playing game lose their meaning in the year of our lord 2026?
>>737919407Neither does Ultima. Or Bards Tale, Or wizardry. Or most of might and magic. Is there a point to the weirdo in OP's definition that's actually useful or functional?
JRPGS are tabletop inspired by proxy, dumbass twittard. just stay there, you dont need our validation, you cant afford it.
>>737927503pretty sure it resembled dnd just from the menu and stats instead of gay character creation from western "rpg"
>>737928720Not even just by proxy. Japanese TT games, have been a thing for over 40 fucking years. Call of cuthulu, D+D, and even the home grown Sword World. Record of Lodos war was based on the authors D+D sessions, and there's dozens of others. Bastard. Slayers. ect ect.. But from a practical matter there's no benefit to the distinction OP's idiot is making.
>>737913007AA is correct.
>>737924860And how many other people on earth do you think would agree with you? This is a completely useless category of rpgs. It's a JRPG. This kind of ridiculous shit where you invent FRPG and it has one game with absolutely no categorical reason to exist is a very basic lesson as to why JRPG is a style and not a geography. Because following geographic logic we get dumb answers like yours that mean nothing.
>>737913007>rpg = d&dWhy do people keep insisting on this?Let's say a pnp rpg like paranoia, where there's no leveling/stat progression. Suddenly it's not a role playing game anymore because it doesn't play like the popular one?
>>737913619>plays kingdom death on TTS first for model availability, then because I moved away from friends>it's no longer an RPG, it morphs into a gatcha and I become gayShame
>>737929221Because D&D was the first popular tabletop rpg to break into mainstream consciousness, it sets the standard. The first rpg video games like Ultima and Wizardry were inspired by it. And those games inspired the first JRPGs.
>>737929090cope
>>737919718Fallout 1 has Junktown, and you have failure states for all locations.
I don't get the obsession with tightly encapsulating every piece of media in genres when it's obvious human creativity can surpass any metric and standard it imposses on itself. There's no genre set in stone. This debate is futile and retarded and benefits no one.
>arbitrary, ad hoc definition based on whatever decade I happened to grow up in and whatever aesthetic appealed to menois this particular unknown faggots opinion important in some way? also no
>>737913690yes. I did one for fun
>>737913007>Lists RPGs >They're CRPGs (With an arbitrary ARPG and FPS added in)>Lists "Not RPGs">They're ARPGs (And JRPGs)I use to like Academic Agent but at one point he ended up mind broken (Around the time he tried to rationalize morality and fumbled)and just fell off incredibly hard, flipping on his own morals and his own economic understandings because he had a psychotic break and tried to rewrite everything he had going on, and when you look at the "Problems" he hit, it's basically that he's an atheist and for a brief moment went "Is Christianity the answer?" and then freaked out and just changed his morals so as to not say it was right. I'm not saying that in a "He must submit to Christianity!" way, but instead, that he had a "Crisis of (lack of) Faith" while arguing people that viewed their ideology as a faith, and as a result, felt his own response was to discard his previous morals and adopt new ones that fit a "Godless" faith to meet his opponents on the same level, and it became bizarre.
>>737913007Dood Sex doesn't count, guns are less shit to use isn't a tactic.
>>737916229mine was call of duty mw2
>>737917873You need to be able to hold at least two things in working memory to play them. Working memory is only one component of IQ.But also yes, you're probably mentally deficient in one way or another.But then again I love those games and so am I, so it's not a big deal.
>>737917721well, yeah.
Key component of an RPG is emphasizing character skill over player skill.In an FPS you landed a headshot because you aimed well as a player.In an RPG you landed a headshot because the character you roleplay is good shot.
>>737915136Everything comes back to Road British in the end.Everything.
>>737913007>tabletop-inspired>deus ex, mountain blade
>>737913007dark souls is a metroid game
>>737913690>without ever leveling up must be easy thenNot that I want to side with the retard calling DS a non-RPG, but yes.Level 1 runs are quite fun and way, way easier than people think if you have already completed the game once.
>>737913007>Academic AgentHe's an Iranian faggot larping as an 'Aryan' and you're a gay faggot for quoting him.
>>737918983>>737918998You are fucking retarded lol
>>737932364Iran literally means "land of the aryans"
>>737932765>So angry he HAD to reply>No rebuttalI accept your concession. Please remain mad and reply to me again.
>>737917390It’s a jrpg because it’s an RPG from Japan
>>737913007>AA is retarded about politics>/v/ is shocked that he is retarded about other things as well
>>737933405>being a political realist is retarded
>>737933463>political realisthe uses twitter threads as "evidence" for his "value-free" analysis. he is in fact retarded.
>>737933584>video title: an objective truth>"b-but he looked at a tweet in the video! h-he ONLY looks at those and nothing else, ever!"
>>737933685Anon, you can watch the video. 20 minutes of it are looking at dumb twitter threads, there ≈2 minutes of ads, and the remainder of him is making an obvious point everyone in the media was making before him.
>>737932782You're just as stupid as AA.
>>737933584His entire schtick was to grift the hard right of politics in Britain, sell them his 'Academic' courses and now he contrarian posts on X/ Twitter for engagement revenue. He's a grifter.
>>737913007Souls games and soulslikes are RPG but it's Roll-Playing Games
>>737913007In vidya RPG just mean stats and levels. Everything else is being delusional.
>>737933584He's been right about ever aspect of the Iran War so far, while Trump's cheerleaders like RaZOGfist look increasingly retarded doing damage control for the Israel slave.
>>737934270>He watches the Welsh Iranian muttHAHAHAHA
>>737913690Retards saying "yes" don't understand that buying gear, infusing them with chaos/bleed, stacking up on humanities is leveling up.
>>737934297>he has no responseHAHAHAHA
>>737913007>most subgenres of RPG aren't actually RPGsWell that clearly doesn't work. It's mostly just stats. The more gameplay there is that doesn't boil down to stats and your ability to leverage them, the less of an RPG it is.
I fucking hate when retards take the literal meaning of the words of a genre our of context and pretend thats how the genre is defined No JRPGs arent RPGs made in Japan they're its own genre and they don't have to be japanese. And no any game where you can roleplay isn't an RPG.Genres are defined by the similarities of games, JRPGs are similar to JRPGs, which is why e33 is a JRPGs. Western RPGs are similar to D&D because that's where they come from CRPGs being the most similar.dark souls is more similar to western RPGs than JRPGs
>>737934361Why do you think John Dee, Morgoth and Woes don't want anything to do him AA anymore? He's a grifter. You're so fucking stupid you can't see it.
>>737913007too obvious. get niggered
>>737913263you never played the game it seems
>>737913007>twitter postkill yourself
ROLE PLAYING GAME.You pretend you're a fictional character. You have stats to represent their strengths and weaknesses and how they interact with the world. Your build and decisions decide how events progress. A linear narrative with turn-based combat is not an RPG.Pokemon is not an RPG.Paper Mario is not an RPG.Undertale is not an RPG.Final Fantasy is not an RPG.
>>737935270>You have stats to represent their strengths and weaknesses and how they interact with the world. Your build and decisions decide how events progress.Yes.>A linear narrative with turn-based combat is not an RPG.No, it is. "Deciding" how combat progresses is enough decisionmaking to meet the RPG watermark.
The definition of an RPG is a role playing game. Where you take on a role and can act in a non linear and personalised way. Often the definition lies in the word itself and any attempt to make it mean something else is dishonest and ignorant.
>>737913007By definition, a rpg is a game where you play a role. But that's every game, so what makes rpgs more of a role playing game than others? I think it's you being able to play MULTIPLE roles, i.e choice. And not just choice as to what your weapon loadout is but the ability to influence the world and story as in a movie. It's also not just choice, but your character should be limited in what he can do, which is where stats come in. But these stats don't have to be hp or agility, it could be an invisible charisma score that locks out certain dialogue options.
>>737935395The only outcomes of combat are 'win and continue the game' or 'lose and try again until you get it right'.
>>737935615And? If that somehow means there's no decisionmaking going on in combat, I'd love to hear how.
>>737935567>I want to choose how the story goes!That's superfluous, just like it's always been. So long as your game has enough of a stat system to let you firmly define your character, it's an RPG.
Here comes /tg/ to give us the most broad, milquetoast and functionally useless definition of RPG in the context of video game genres.RPG in vidya is stats and levels. That's it. This is not tabletop roleplaying. Can you not tell media apart, you dumbass?
>>737935882Doom 2016 is a rpg by this definition
>>737935691A decision that only accepts a 'correct' answer and has less effect on the story than what you name the character is not roleplaying.
>>737913007An RPG is a game where you are a PG.Are you a PG? Then it's an RPG.
>>737935984People will say dumb shit like that and the classic "if I play a role it's an rpg" and not realize they're retarded when shit like doom and super monkey ball is included in their definition
>>737917514>Buffstacking red tearstone frame perfect dodges>HURRR BROKEN SHIT GAME EASY
>>737935995Good thing there's not a single fucking turn based game on the planet that anyone gives a shit about where all combat has a "correct" answer. I don't care what kind of exaggerated meme example you're about to pull out of your ass, there's still plenty of decisions being made in combat.
>>737913007But Deus ex doesn't have a custom character
>>737916710You're a retard. I can't swing a sword or cast a spell. Just because I know when to press the roll button doesn't mean I''m somehow imparting my own skill over the character. If it's okay to let a 20 int player play a game of chess you can't play, then you might as well sit back in the cuck chair because some one with 20 int won't make the same retarded decisions as you. You deciding what spells to slot is tantamount to pressing roll.
>>737936352>no actually you SHOULD have to play chess every time your 20 int character tries, otherwise you're a cuck!Is that all you mentally ill faggots can think about? Being "cucked" by nonsexual, non-romantic experiences you have alone?
>>737936449Just let the game play itself bro, your DM should be calling you out for being an absolute retard and informing you that your high IQ character wouldn't to that.
SCORCHER!
>>737936493The allocation of 20 points into intelligence and the decisions leading up to playing chess and the rules which determined that your intelligence can be used to play chess was the gameplay, the chess is just a random fucking story detail that you latched on to and demanded be the gameplay because you are a fucking RETARD.
>>737913007>mass effect isnt a rpgWhat the fuck is it then?
>>737913007Translation:>RPGs are like: real RPGs>RPGs are don't like: not real RPGs
>>737936610>my 20 int character is borderline retarded when I'm in control>but I let him play chesslmaok
>>737936683Dating sim
>>737936731dating sims are inherently about roleplay, what does the RP in RPG stand for? roleplayso how is it not a RPG?
>>737936707>my 20 int character is borderline retarded when I'm in control because I can't play chess better than a demigod so I don't even bother tryingSounds like a (you) problem, it's easy to play a character that's smarter than yourself
>>737936771Rpgs have nothing to do with roleplaying
>>737936507BUY IT NOW!
>>737936683Native isekai in space.
>>737936831>it's easy to play a character that's smarter than yourselft. 14 int
>>737936842And what the fuck do you do in tabletop?
>>737936860
Only an idiot needs strict guidelines to what an RPG is. Everyone else knows a RPG is simply a game that was built around character progression and choices.If you can remove all the RPG elements from a game without completely destroying the game then it's not a real RPG.
>>737936873"native isekai" has to be the most retarded made up term ever uttered
>>737918806>JRPGSynonym is grinding
>>737913007>RPG=shit games>not RPGs=good gamesSeems about right
>>737937018Troon out judging by the community, there's a reason it's called /transgender/
>>737913007Wouldn't Diablo actually count by his own definition
I have D&D fatigue
