>>737971428
laziness

they only got away with it because of the combo of extremely short dev cycle/lack of higher-up oversight due to the impending gamecube release so they couldn't focus test all the interesting stuff out, and the game being an attempt to salvage OOT's 64DD expansion (so they had the entire game engine and most of the assets already there and could just make the interesting stuff)

then after it came out, all the people behind it either got promoted off zelda or always had bad ideas and thought the interesting stuff was bad and they just didn't have time to change it, which is why majoras mask 3DS sucks so much taint

>>737971428
Because the franchise became trend chasing slop after The Wind Waker came out.

>>737971428
because majora and links awakening were the brainchild of koizumi, who got put on mario right after majora leaving anonumale to handle the series because he was the most senior japanese man still working on zelda

Why not make another direct sequel with adult link using the great fairy's sword and some of the masks

>>737971621
It really was something special. I remember seeing the pictures on the internet as "Zelda 64 Gaiden".
Couldn't find a copy for sale anywhere at end of 2000, until a day before my family was moving across the state, we found one at Sam's Club. But my N64 was packed first in the truck lol. So didn't get to play it until after a 6 hour drive and unpacking.

too based and redpilled for the normies

>>737971818
swap koizumi and aonuma and both IPs improve again, why wont they do it?

>>737971428
>>737971529
tears of the kingdom

>>737972172
It's the ultimate adventure game.

>737972182
I remember when bait used to be subtle. Now retards just post blatantly wrong shit and expect (You)s.

>>737971428
Oracle of Ages, Twilight Princess, Tears of the Kingdom,

>>737971428
Majora's mask was literally cranked out in like a year because they lost the real sequel to OoT

>>737972182
I don't think that OP meant "a direct sequel to the previous game" and nothing else anon.

>>737973648
Totk feels like a soft reboot, to me.
WHERE'S MY FUCKING GUARDIANS, AONUMA???

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>>737974329
I bet Zelda's ass feels soft

>>737971674
They crunched so hard in the interim of OoT's release, MM and then WW that some of them fell out due to mental health issues, and Aonuma lost trust as leader because he was basically responsible for it, so going forward I think the franchise shifted into the typical "Every game should be built like it's the last game!" mindset. Only the handheld games got to experiement but they started becoming very mid.

>>737971428
All Aonuma and no Koizumi

>>737974460
Crunch sounds like a great thing the more I hear about it. Not my problem if devs go insane or die from blood clots because of it.

>>737974329
I mean yeah it might as well be even if it pretends to be a sequel. The game feels almost bizarrely disconnected from the previous one.

>>737971428
Pride. Too many people within Nintendo either believe the current direction of the franchise to be objectively superior to where it was at the time, or have their own very specific idea of how it ought to be handled that is incompatible with another game remotely like MM.

>>737971428
Koizumi got put into the Mario mines so he doesn't mog Aonuma anymore.

>>737971428
Did you not play phantom hourglass?
Normies are hard filtered by any sort of timer.

>>737971428
The simply answer is that Nintendo's main game design principles do not allow games like MM anymore. Everything has to fit into a squeaky clean vision they have in mind for every series and character and everything has to fit into some kind of boilerplate design. You're only allowed to deviate from the boilerplate design in order to introduce other boilerplate and merch-friendly bullshit.

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Koizumi gave us the most kino part of Wind Waker.

>>737971428
It's the black sheep of the series.

>>737975123
>>737975329
The more time goes on the more I'm convinced that everything people loved about Zelda was directly because of Koizumi's input.

>>737975186
no one who likes MM even thinks to mention the timer since it's the least important or interesting part of the mechanic

everyone who hates MM cant shut up about how bad they are at time management and riddled with anxietyby the mere mention of a deadline

Miyamoto is a piece of shit and has ruined not only Zelda but Paper Mario too its a shame the franchise peaked during the Nintendo 64 era

>>737975329
That makes so much sense lol. He's probably the reason for Ganondorfs little speech at the end.

>>737971428
majoras mask is incredibly overrated. i played it for the first time a year or two ago. the vibes it created were great and the moment to moment gameplay is great but the time mechanics made me have to replay so much content and it completely ruined the experience by making it incredibly repetitive. just way too overly punishing on failing to beat a level in time while also discouraging exploration.

>>737971428
They make all the gimmicky games side games nowadays even if BOTW was a huge shift from the previous mainline games. If we got another game like Majora, it’d have relatively the same budget as Triforce Heroes.

>>737971428
Because this game literally would not have happened without Koizumi. He was the brains behind the whole concept of this game and the writing style of the n64 games in general and he has promoted off Zelda. It's the same reason the remake blows. Aonuma was co director but has gone on the record multiple times saying he hates this game and did not want to do a remake of it nor does he want Koizumi to make another Zelda.

>>737975442
Yes. It happens in EVERY game with a timer and you wonder to yourself "why are these retards buying shit they hate then demanding the dev remove it?"
It's the funniest shit. MM is outstanding, og WW was great and the DS games were both good.
Oot fags can't let go of the past and nu-zelda kids have no idea what they missed out on

>>737975412
I think his ideas elevated any Zelda he worked on, but they are more risky and management fucking HATES risks.

>>737975532
Sounds like a skill issue, not a problem with the gameplay.

>>737975532
I dunno the game is pretty generous time wise, especially once you play the slow time song. it can drag when doing specific mask quests and you need to wait for specific time frames though, if only you could fast forward to specific hours like the wait system in TES and Nu-Fallout.

>>737975532
You can slow the clock down.

>>737975651
The DS games are dogshit. WW is a mess that's only good "in concept" if you ignore the 200 glaring flaws plaguing the game. In fact pretty much the whole Zelda series past MM and the Oracle games is dogshit not worth anybody's time.

Here's a list of worthwhile Zelda games: NES, ALttP, LA, OoT, MM, OoA/OoS. That's about it. Zelda 2 is a meme that went from being overhated to being overdefended as some kind of corrective measure. OoT of course is the peak of overrated, but it's still better than most other entries anyway

tight deadlines, shoestring budgets, and harsh working conditions make for good games.

>>737975532
>the vibes were great
>the gameplay was great
>the game is overrated
no.
>the time mechanics made me have to replay so much content and it completely ruined the experience by making it incredibly repetitive. just way too overly punishing on failing to beat a level in time while also discouraging exploration.
did you not learn the inverted song of time? Failing a single dungeon is something that can happen but having to replay "so much content" means you're either retarded or didn't learn the inverted song of time.

>>737975875
There's no quantifiable reason to put the DS games below "fine". Dogshit is a ridiculous overstatement and you and I both know it.

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>Nintendo digs up the OoT/MM source code
>Makes a new N64-style game out of it
>Requires barely any money and far less time because the engine and assets are already mostly finished and the dev team can be way smaller
>Release on eShop for $30
>Can churn out multiple Zelda games like this while the main team works on the next big title

Why not do this

>>737975875
OoT is loved because it basically just took ALttP and made it 3D, even despite the scaling down. you've got the 3 intro dungeons, the master sword acquisition then the "alternate world" with the bulk of the game's dungeons and final boss gauntlet.

>>737975807
>Sounds like a skill issue, not a problem with the gameplay.
the most predictable response. be honest, when you first played through did you really beat everything first try and never have to repeat content? i have no issue with games that are difficult by presenting me with a task that is genuinely physically challenging to overcome. but i find games boring when they arbitrarily make me replay content because i just didnt notice the one thing i needed to notice to progress. it doesnt take skill, its just pointlessly making you repeat shit.

>>737975827
>>737975849
sure, but i didnt find that until the late game, by which point i had already wasted a ton of time replaying the content because i had run out of time. i just wouldve enjoyed the game more if they didnt make me repeat shit id already done over and over. i get that this board is full of people with autism who love repetition, but most people arent like that.

>>737975998
No, I'm barely exaggerating. Phantom Hourglass in particular might be the weakest entry of the series excluding meme shit and non-answers like CDi. That abomination makes TWW look like a finished and polished game. Spirit Tracks is a little better, but still underwhelming.

>>737976118
I mean why are you doing the same things over and over? only stuff you should be doing on repeat is getting the big ass rupee chests in town and dumping them into the bank at the start of every run so you have near infinite cash. only time you ever need to do the same shit over is when you fucked it up or took forever doing a dungeon and ran out of time.

>>737976054
The last level in that game, when you cross over the bridge to fight ganon. Thats like the craziest shit. Ganon himself, also very insane. That’s the best dungeon and boss fight ever produced ever by anyone. Das3 had some good bosses too but it’s parryslop so it’s not as fun. Ganon was kinda parryslop too, but not nearly as bad. Thats baseball slop. It’s like same sorta thing.

>>737971428
Nips cant get lsd anymore

>>737971428
Because they know Majora's Mask is overrated shit and no one besides contrarian faggots would buy another game like it

>>737975412
He did the manual for LttP, story for LA, goddesses of Hyrule, Z-targeting, pretty boy Link's design in OoT, and all the best aspects of Majora's Mask.

>>737975875
You sound like you got hard filtered by the tri force sailing champ.
Even TP is a decent game even if it just nostalgia baited at every opportunity. Nothing at all pleases you Oot fanboys.

Exploring Hyrule and Termina in these games was so much fun i never got bored trying to get all the masks or heart pieces in other Zelda games it felt a bit more forced in Ocarina and Majora Mask i genuinely enjoyed exploring the world

>>737976346
yeah the final gauntlet of OoT is some real good stuff. what we lost in scale they made up for in spectacle that's for sure.

>>737976118
I didn’t need to redo anything, but im a pro. My mind just works differently than most, it’s not just about the mechanical skill. Youll probably never beat majoras mask as well as me, and that’s okay. Youll always be in like the middle of the pack and wondering why you aren’t getting scores like other people.

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>>737971428
I think it was too high IQ. Consumers hate that as TotK showed.

>>737976279
>forever doing a dungeon and ran out of time
yes, this is what i had to do over and over. i dont remember specifics but a lot of dungeons i ran out of time once or twice and it just completely ruined the momentum and made me want to stop playing. and its not a "skill issue", sometimes you just miss the one thing you have to do. you do 95% of the dungeon but theres one eyeball you have to shoot or something that you didnt notice. or maybe theres one thing you can interact with with a specific mask on that you didnt notice. and then it takes you back to the start and you have to do all the other shit again as well. its just pointless. all of you people defending it be 100% honest with me: did you really first try everything in this game without guides, never running down the timer? if so, then what does the timer even contribute for you? even if you do want to call it a skill issue, its still one of those things that punishes people who are worse at the game, while doing nothing to improve the experience for people who are good at the game. its literally just padding, done in the worst possible way.

>>737976493
They had some incredible design philosophy involving the characters upgraded power. So that’s a mechanic that’s not really used very much, not like they did in oot. You get gauntlets that let you lift up a giant rock. Thats such a weird power up but it really made me feel strong, like id aged in hyrule and became an adult link. The way the arrows glow when you shoot them is still breathtakingly beautiful. You can just feel the power flow through the controller from your hands, they cost a lot of mp but it’s worth it. The detail in Ganons tower is simply groundbreaking. The music, the atmosphere, it’s actually unfair how good that game truly was. Ive never played anything even close to that type of thing. I think it has a lot to do with the art they used. It’s very well done and to the point.

>>737976593
I dunno man only way I ever ran out of time doing a dungeon was because I went in late on day 3, most of my resets were from mask chasing, or if I fucked up the Ranch defense quest.

>>737976593
Im trying to tell you. Im the guy who keeps telling you that you’re a shit. You’re literally a shit. It’s an IQ problem most likely, pro zelda players are 115+.

>>737976812
>because I went in late on day 3,
yes, i had this issue too. and when i did it made me pointlessly redo shit. and if i chose to reset before starting the dungeon, it would still waste time and make me pointlessly redo some other shit. do you not see the problem? how about instead of wasting my time and having me pointlessly redo shit, they just dont make me pointlessly redo shit?

>>737976435
You can't get filtered by shit game design and I didn't even mind the Triforce hunt that much since I already spend a lot of time needlessly exploring the barren sea and useless islands so I aready got a good share of them near the endgame. Also ALttP and MM are clearly superior to OoT. I might even put LA above it. It's still in the top 5 Zelda games because the rest of the series sadly sucks so much.

>>737976982
well it wasn't pointless, you managed your time poorly and ended up not finishing something before the deadline. time management is a skill in MM, you can't manage the time then you are punished for it.

>>737977051
i guess thats fair, i just dont find it fun. its not a challenging game, it doesnt require much skill, its just happy to waste 20~ minutes of your time because you didnt notice something, and i didnt enjoy that about it. like i said, its a year or two since i played it and i dont remember it clearly, but i maybe failed 10-20~ times or so, and my lasting impression of it was that it massively wasted my time with these failures. compare that to games that i find genuinely fun and challenging where i might die thousands of times and still not feel like my time is being wasted. its just overly punishing for reaching a failure state.

>>737972182
ToTK SHOULD'VE been like MM, but it wasn't
Definitely a missed opportunity

>>737971428
It was called Twilight Princess

OoT, MM, seasons / ages
Those are the best gimmicks in zelda games. They should totally remake seasons and ages but in 3d, or do another time travel related zelda. time travel is the msot fun part of these games.
sailing was ok. the wolf and wiimote fell flat on its face. need more time travel gimmicks.

>>737977491
I'm honestly sad that the concept of masks with abilities and transformations has never been revisited. Central Hyrule in TOTK feels like it was made for the Goron mask to roll around in.

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it's all downhill after Majora
there used something mystical about Zelda games
now it just looks kinda gay

>>737971428
Eh, the Capcom zeldas felt pretty close to oot and mm at times too.
But imagine something between Outer Wilds and this nowadays.

>>737978037
>hint hint nintendo
They will never come close to this. Outer Wilds really was the bloodless successor of MM.

Wind Waker uses models from the N64 games for some stuff but you would never notice it because the cel-shader effect makes it look like you're looking at something new

>>737976435
TP is below the two N64 titles. The guy you have answered to is right on most of his statements.

>>737977926
Botw and Totk are the most mysterious ones

>>737977563
TP was underrated in retrospect. I was also a bit too harsh on SS despite it's flawed boring designs that BotW later continued, because it did interesting gameplay things.
WW is overrated as fuck though, can we all agree? I thought maybe child me disliking the design impacted my thoughts on the game too much like with SS, but no - there really wasn't that big of a change from OoT/MM and WW. TP changed a fuck tonne, albeit streamlining some things too. I do the like the freedom that BotW/TotK provided, but it's missing narrative so fucking much. It's just a shitty pile of memories and that irritates me. You build such a massive world and then nerf the story like that until it's barely anything? Why?

If they go any direction after this, it's take the freedom of movement in those games and look at the mechanics games like Outer Wilds introduced while introducing a very mysterious layered narrative on top of it. MM was like that too. You just looked around and guessed what things were meant to represent and what really happened in Termina. Ikana especially because it's key to what happened to Termina, yet never anything more than ambiguous rumours and cult icons/statues and a town of undead (fuck the retcon, that is garbage that redeads/gibdos aren't hylians/people when Ikana lab proved otherwise).

>>737978271
>I wonder which Amiibo costume will be in this chest!
Great mystery.

>>737978152
I think only now are people realising that cel shading was them making shortcuts, which devalues WW a fuck tonne for me.
Not so much BotW/TotK because those places are HUGE.

>>737978530
>Staring at jpeg of beyond Kakariko village
>I wonder what's not over there

>>737978481
TP is definitely the best 3D Zelda not on the N64. SS is beyond dogshit even disregarding the controls. What an absolute travesty of a game. Genuinely convinced that anybody who enjoys that abomination is either too young to know better or mentally handicapped. Big contender for worst game in the series along with PH.

>>737978481
Yeah, Wind Waker is dogshit I could go on and on about how bad it is.

>>737971621
>rushed unfinished game
>accidentally a masterpiece
>come back to finish it 20 years later
>soulless slop
Tragic

>>737978037
I think each oracle had one reference to either oot or mm.

>>737978709
And you'd mostly be wrong because there are alot of micro dungeons which is very different from any other Zelda game but I understand that makes boomers seethe as it's not like the older titles and millennials can't handle having no dopamine hit every 5 seconds

>>737978652
>Staring at distant field/mountain in TOTK
>go there
>oh wow it's the same fucking grass/rock texture that's covering the entire world
There is no mystery because the emptiness of BOTW/TOTK is so obvious. Meanwhile most of those jpgs in the distance of N64 Zeldas ARE LoD representations of unique handcrafted areas that aren't just glossy painted shit terrain, a pond and an apple tree again.

>>737978709
WW is tortorous for heart piece collectors.
>Sail around for hints
>follow hints to a coordinate on the map
>lay down anchor and watch a cutscene
>Repeat this six times

>>737978709
>fucking hours on open water with barely a battle or anything
Even Phantom Hourglass was better than this... a little too much to the point where it became even more irritating than WW.
>we don't talk about spirit tracks
>I still haven't finished it and I stopped literally before the final area because of that train segment - was just like "I'm done with this" and for 20 years now I haven't finished it

I wonder if my sister deleted that save file...

>>737976007
>Nips
>digging up old source code
Found the problem.

>>737977926
Before the game released, I thought the old man was going to be the villain of BotW.

>>737977926
This game killed Zelda not Wind Waker

>>737978660
so repetitive and so empty of a game

>>737979202
I've fully completed both hour glass and spirit tracks and I don't recall a single stand out moment for either of them lol
Not one. I vaguely recall a train loop section but you can figure that out in like 5 mins and I'm sure one of the lower floors on got glass had a bullshit "guide the golem" section.
But non of those are "bad" just mediocre. The modern games are just lazy open world garbage because that's what everyone expects

>>737978271
By all rights they should be, but by the 50th hour you realize any and all mystery and legend about the world is just a Sheika/Zonai shrine or Korok seed

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>>737979017
>>737979192
>>737979202
Here is what I wrote the other day, just getting starting ripping into it.

Where to start. The game is called Wind Waker, that's the name of the music item that is used to control the sailing that you do for a large part of the game. When Nintendo remastered it, they implemented the swift sail. Not only does this cut the time spent sailing in half, it also supplants the Wind Waker of its use in sailing too. So we're looking at a flawed concept from inception, if a remaster decides to start gutting core features, and it's portrayed as a positive.

You spend a lot of time sailing, pirate themed, so collecting treasure has a big focus right? every chest you pull up is pretty much guaranteed to be rupees. This game introduced massive size wallets to hold thousands of rupees, which is a large step up from the 500 rupees in the previous games. So you're expected to collect a lot of rupees, they are a uniform treasure, you get them sailing, you get them in dungeons, in towns, all over, and they contribute to your collected funds. In the original the point of this was to use them to translate the triforce charts, the second to last progression of the game before going to the final boss. So this is pretty much Wind Waker's best use case of non-linear progression, you find progress to be made all over the game world. The remaster reduces how many rupees would be required in half, and also doubles the amount of rupees that can be carried in each tier of wallet.

I could go on and on about this game, but it's clearly a game at odds with itself, and poorly executes everything. The remaster guts features and fans of the game tend to praise it for doing so. It's clear that even among fans, nobody really likes Wind Waker. They like the facsimile of it instead. Have you ever heard anyone talk about how much they love sailing around and exploring islands? that should be a bigger aspect of the game I imagine.

>>737979463
I think I once and for all stopped caring for modern Zelda games in any capacity once I saw how utterly devoid the sky was of anything noteworthy. I thought surely they can't repeat the Wind Waker mistake again but in the air. And I was wrong. They didn't repeat the mistake. They made it even worse. In comparison to the the SS sky, the WW sea is a wonderland of discovery and variety. I absolutely love "civilization in the clouds/sky" kind of settings so I was really looking forward to SS. In retrospect I don't kow what I expected from modern Nintendo.

>>737979135
>Staring at distant field/mountain in TOTK
>>>go there
fantastic game

>>737971428
Because Majora's Mask was a happy little accident that resulted from risky experimentation while trying to meet a deadline. This wasn't even supposed to be made as it was, it was supposed to be an expansion to OoT.

>>737979693
Baste. Reaching the mountain is it's own reward.

>>737979673
Skyward Sword at least has a game world, the sky is just a hub, and compared to Hyrule field in Ocarina of Time for instance, it's at least more interesting. Wind Waker lacks a world like Skyward Sword actually has, comparing the actual locations to explore in SS with that of WW is night and day. You can hate the sky all you want, but it's not the focal point, or rather where the gameplay mainly is happening. WW is too enveloped in its use of the sea, and yet it's just no good.

While MM lacked physics influence in it's cycles like modern time-loop games are doing now, it had an entire programmed loop for it's cast which is kinda fucking insane for 2000 considering they were barely getting the controls and graphics right back then. I don't think any other game has come close to the cycles of the npcs to MM. It's STILL the cutting edge for that shit.

But it does lack a bit of the physics looping that games like Outer Wilds has. But Outer Wilds has static NPCs that don't really loop and just check for flags or something like that. MM is still king in that regard and it's story is just amazing (Outer Wilds is a miss for me a bit, it gets too cuddly at the end and it also lacks proper combat).

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>>737979291
Did you literally miss the Gigaleak in 2020, anon? Nintendo is the one exception among nip devs, they held onto tons of their source materials and assets. We have Super Famicom development materials and assets from the FUCKING EIGHTIES.

Hell, they also backed up games for third-parties as well (most notably, though not from the Gigaleak, they've had a finished but unreleased translated ROM for Trials of Mana on SNES that Square Enix naturally threw out long ago, and this is the sole reason why Square Enix was able to release The Collection of Mana and why it was a Switch exclusive).
>>737979358
Wind Waker and Skyward Sword opened the gates of Toledo for BotW to come in and lay waste to the series.

>>737979579
>by the 50th hour
you would be completely finished with any other previous Zelda game before 50 hours, BY ALL RIGHTS you should have familiarized yourself with the world so as to remove some mystery by then.

>>737979934
The game worlds of SS suck ass as well. Especially since you have to revisit them all like 20 times and refight the same bosses 20 times and do gay shit like collecting musical notes and always take trips through the useless sky.

>>737979934
Really though, none of these games should do this and they should either detail an open world like BotW/TotK, or turn away from it and go the Dark Souls/Bloodborne interconnected world route (which is just still so good). Elden Ring is the perfect level of detail I think though. It's just not easy to make (the dlc is noticeably empty in parts because it's actually unfinished).

>>737980021
>that Square Enix naturally threw out long ago, and this is the sole reason why Square Enix was able to release The Collection of Mana and why it was a Switch exclusive
Why is Square like that?
It's always Square that you hear about for doing this.
Them and Sega?

>>737980092
WW was nice enough to give the player a warp song for fast travel.

>>737980221
>Why is Square like that?
Being irresponsible with money was kind of a theme for them in the 90s, anon. And we know how that turned out.

>>737974681
crunch nowadays just mean whenever devs feel like working and expected high end salary by the end of each month and it shows with most games taking forever to release and still feel like they didn't spend much time on them.

>>737980021
Holy kino!
I kneel...

>>737980409
I'm still baffled it took 6 years to release TOTK

>>737980221
Square is loved for stuff they did in the 90s that nobody there is really responsible for. The only way for the people there to deserve the credit the company has (had) is to destroy everything people love.
Blizzard is identical and now Blizzard is such a tainted brand that the new Starcraft is going to be under Microsoft's name.

>>737980504
it's literally just an asset flip of BotW but it took them an entire generation to release it which proves the devs were lazy and getting paid big buck as well.

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>>737971428
Wow, an extremely based Zelda thread for once. And we even have anons telling the BotW shills to fuck off. I'm honestly surprised.

>>737980841
The night is still young. One of the usual retards can still come along and ruin it. My money is going to be on the anti-dunjon sperg (misspelling it on purpose to make it harder for him to egosearch).

>>737971428
Because it was pretty decisive, some people absolutely hate the time looping

>>737980092
>The game worlds of SS suck ass as well.
Oh bull to the shit, anon. Lets take SS's locations that the game takes place in, lets compare them to the other 3D Zeldas earnestly.

Oot
-death mountain
-lost woods
-zora domain
-gerudo desert

SS's areas are better than those.

MM
-woodfall swamp
-snowhead mountain
-great bay
-ikana canyon

SS's areas are better.

WW
-great sea
-hyrule castle

SS's areas much better.

TP
-ordon forest
-death mountain
-lost woods
-zora domain
-elden desert
-snowpeak

SS is on par.

>>737971529
fedora's mask was the epitome of laziness

>>737975186
That didn't stop the 2D Mario series from doing well.

>>737980143
Elden ring is middling, game is too focused on a game long boss rush to be a solid adventure.

>>737976593
NTA, I have a question
did you go straight into a dungeon as soon as you got access to it, or did you reset and then warp back to enter the dungeon with a full cycle?

>>737981178
SS's areas are not better than any of the games you've listed if you actually, fully earnestly evaluate them.

>>737981431
You're full of shit, holy hell. None of those games are as cool as the sand sea, none of those games are as cool as the flooded forest.

Can you beat the Ikana “Beneath the Well” quest in Majora’s Mask without actually leaving the well and not bringing any items with you? The last time I played the game I was following a guide and brought everything I needed with me.

>>737981924
you need to bring a blue potion and several magic beans, the rest is inside the well

>>737981178
I liked the Sand Sea when you acquire the boat, but that's about it.

>>737982107
The whole time shift stones gimmick was legendary.

>>737971529

>95% of the game is reused assets.

I mean, it's impressive that they did it in a year considering how hard the N64 was to develope on.

>>737982897
The entire world is new. That alone brings it way lower than 95%.

>>737971818
This is the actual answer.

>>737972176
I don't think Aonuma would've done better on Mario. But also it's because Aonuma doesn't want to swap. Koizumi ("""jokingly""") offered to work on a Zelda around TP or something in an Iwata Asks and got shot down.

>>737982028
>>737981924
And also the magic beans and the blue potion are the first two doors so you're not going to progress partway through only to realize you need an outside item.

>>737984412
Koizumi said "I'll create a Zelda game that you'd actually have fun playing" to Aonuma and I think that is what set him off.

>>737981924
The only literal bottleneck in the Ikana Well is how many bottles you have. Having more bottles means less trips back to farm items for the Gibdos.

>>737982028
>>737984628
>>737984829
That’s way better than I remembered it being then. For some reason I thought the well was the worst part of the game.

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>>737971428
Because we don't deserve to have good games anymore.
It's our fault things got so bad.
We watched Adam Sessler for God's sake.

>>737984948
fuck

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>>737984934
Yeah it's really not that bad. It's just kind of a boring presentation, but I think having a little condensed trading sequence is a fun idea.
It's just usually done really terribly. Pic related.

Nothing is more soulful than following an NPC around all three days and seeing how they react to certain situations, masks, or the time of day.

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>>737971428
it's a flash in the pan, like a "Brazil" or "Beau is Afraid" for video games. there won't ever be anything like it again. the insane development constraints/timeline contributed a lot to this, but i think the general anxiety of the y2k world and gen X globally hitting their existential crisis was a big influence on the story/theme/aesthetic. termina feels like a familiar dream that you can never quite get back to, it would be great as a setting in future zelda games, as well as further exploration of it's themes, but i think that would also kind of miss the point.

>>737984934
It's better designed than most people give it credit for. Buying the Ikana Valley map is really helpful too since the well micro-dungeon has a lot of rooms in it.

>>737985410
I think they should never touch Termina again. It's such a mysterious setting if only because of the asset reuse, there's really no need to spoil that. A fleeting dream is perfect for the story it told. But I'd love to see more Zelda games that aren't in Hyrule.

How were you supposed to figure out the Kafei quest on your own?

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>>737979673
>>737979463
My take on Skyward Sword is that Spirit Tracks did certain aspects better despite being on rails.

>>737971428
They can't do risky things when games take 6+ years and a gorillion dollars to make

>>737986737
That boss is fun.

>>737971428
Best thing about this game is the NPC schedules and certain side quests. Made the world feel alive.

>>737987269
There are things I hate about SS. That is not one of them.

>>737975549
>>737975532
>the time mechanics made me have to replay so much content
Don't tell me that you try to do EVERYTHING in one go. Because that is a great way to burn yourself out from it. Do one thing at a time and if you don't have time for anything else, leave it at that. You'll have to go back to the start of the first day anyway.

Answering OP's question, Majora was made in an environment that is heavily looked down on in today's climate, only a year of development, no focus testing to dumb down anything that two people who don't like video games complain about, they had to stick with what they had and they reused Ocarina's engine and assets but still had enough time to create new assets and attach it to a gimmick that gave the game its own style and flavor. It's never been replicated or attempted since, and Aonuma damn sure doesn't want to go back to it. Look what happened with Majora 3D, all the cool shit you could do with boss fights, stripped away. Casualizing the Bomber's Notebook, swimming as a Zora was fucked with, and so on.

>>737971428
how many times has a zelda game done the same thing as another?

>>737975329
>I coveted that heckin wind
It's ahit

The real question why haven't there been more NPC schedule games. When Majora's Mask came out, I though the system of having NPCs whose stories are told through schedules and gameplay being to give the NPCs happy endings to their stories by intervening at the right times was really clever. I'm surprised that even 25 years later, Majora's Mask is still an incredibly unique game in this regard.

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>>737971428
It's a product of its time, the pressure felt by its developers in that year of development is palpable in the game itself.

The most unique Zelda, the best thing is to see the different reactions that the characters have to the fall of the moon.

It's not cool despite the pressure they had, it's cool because of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0krxH0dWhU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDX4ZwUeOok

>>737985614
Making Zelda lore consistent was dumb. With the exception of sequels to properly build upon each other i've always thought that each story works best as it's own individual world, isolated from anything else. It's a legend after all and when you look at stories from various cultures from around the world, there is often similar story beats and themes from various lands and tribes.

>>737989157
>With the exception of sequels to properly build upon each other i've always thought that each story works best as it's own individual world, isolated from anything else.
correct. and thats how nintendo see it too. the lore is literally an afterthought to them.

I still feel sorry for the butler

>>737989294
>that credits scene of him sobbing over his son's corpse
why would nintendo do that?

>>737978481
I remember hearing amazing things about Wind Waker; I like Tetra, and when the twist was revealed, I thought she'd have a bigger role in the game, but instead they just lock her in a room until the very end. What a load of crap.

>>737989014
The Sexy Brutale, but not really. It has the groundhog day loop, but it's much more of a puzzle game with simpler schedules. With roguelites being so popular you would think someone would try it.

>>737989229
>and thats how nintendo see it too
did they retcon the zelda timeline? Because i fucking hated that shit.

>>737988903
>spelling mistake
Done.

>>737971428
>Why wasn't there ever another [insert N64 game]

>>737989384
It's consistent with the tragic tone of the game.

>>737975471
>MIYAMOTO MIYAMOTO MIYAMOTO MIYAMOTO MIYAMOTO
>paper mario
every single time without fail.

>>737971428
You really wanted an Ocarina of Time part 3?

>>737989157
>Making Zelda lore consistent was dumb. With the exception of sequels to properly build upon each other
Zelda 2 was a direct sequel and ALTTP was expressly intended as a prequel to both, not its own isolated thing. Then LA and the Oracles heavily implied themselves to follow ALTTP, and OoT is an explicit prequel to it. The "muh same legend that gets retold" interpretation came from some random NoA rep bullshitting. They kept a physical, manually updated model of the timeline in the office well through the N64 era. I'm sorry your first two Zeldas weren't directly connected and you projected that expectation onto the rest of the series.

>>737975412
I'm fully convinced this dude was the mastermind of Zelda at its peak and his peers were jealous or hated his dominant work style so he got booted via promotion

>>737991080
And?

You guys have to let this Koizumi vs Aonuma shit go. The true killer of the zeda series is FUJIBIYASHI