Why did Expedition 33 successfully pull it off but Star Ocean 3 couldn't?
i thought Deemo did it the best
>topExposition diarrhea of words>bottomSays what needs to be said in a few words.This is why JRPG writing is laughably bad.
>>737987054>this is technology>this is magic
>>737987054I both love and really hate the twist in E33. I love it initially because I think the idea of the painters is interesting. How they're all a bunch of grieving fuck-ups that have become warring gods over a world a child made to play around in. And how Maelle was the only one who learned true empathy for the people there, because she was literally reborn among them and experienced a life with a familial love and support that her current family fails to give her.But I also hate it because the ending sucks in how it completely writes off the cast and conflict you spent the whole game being given time and reason to care about in favor of saying that they're actually a metaphor for escapism and should probably just die for the Dessendre's last second character development.
>>737987054Expedishit only exists a a twitch/streaming game where the streamer can take people on an adventure. It's ass to play.
>>737987212Delusional, bottom is written like shit too.
>>737987553oh no looneytroon are u ok sis? you lost and you can never, ever win :*(
>>737987054E33 did it game 1 and executed it well, SO3 did in game 3 and did not execute on it very well.
>>737987686Yeah, it was done pretty terribly in SO3 and it had the side effect of effectively ruining the world of the entire JRPG series. Every game in the series now is just canonically a video game in their own universe, but in the games that aren't SO3 they just have to play it straight: it's not really a plot point for the rest of the series as far as I know.It's a shame, SO2 was one of my favorites growing up, and 3's twist was so bad it kind of left a bad taste in my mouth for the whole series.
>>737987054picrel did it first and better than both of them
>>737987054why the fuck does her face look like that?do weebs genuinely think this shit looks good?the guys at least look relatively normal except for the gay ass hair on the middle one and the weird bralette he's wearing
>>737988304genuinely PS2 JRPG’s that aren’t SE or Atlus just look like that
>>737987054Star Ocean 3 did it perfectly fine, you're just dumb & gay & illiterate
>>737987054It didn't. The "it was a dream" type twists are always lame
>>737988304what's the big deal?
>>737988304Making good faces was really hard during the PS2 era.
>>737988304>>737988446
>>737988304because it was one of the earliest attempts at making anime 3d characters whereas the art is perfected today.
>>737988520
>>737988156That Simon... crafty bastard.
>>737988605>Gets paired with Fayt from the beginning.>Disappears for 75% of the game.>Shows up again at like level 10 when you're 80+ so you'll never use her.thanks.
Because Japan can't write good stories, only good ideas.
>>737988520>>737988605fuck that's awfulwhy do chingchongs think eyes should encompass the cheeks of a woman?>>737988557the guys have normal looking eyes, why do the women look so disgusting?
>>737988765IT'S CALLED MOEYOU'D NEVER UNDERSTAND, SWINE!
>>737988849yeah looks about right, lmao the one you posted is even worse, she doesn't even have a nosegross dude
>so3Part of a series never written with it in mind>E33The core of the story
>>737988646plump
>>737987054Cause shilling works and E33 was shilled to high heaven. Standards are also lower.
I still don't know what possessed me to play Star Ocean 3.Like, willingly. No one gave me the game, no one baited me, no one talked to me of playing it. I just saw Star Ocean 3 Till the end of Time on wiki and said I should play this.
>>737988921>Part of a series never written with it in mindAlmost every Star Ocean game is about conspiracy theories.>Star Ocean 2What if angels were aliens.>Star Ocean 3Reality is a simulation.>Star Ocean 4Lizard people, scientology spaghetti monsters.>Star Ocean 6Mind-network transhuman societies where everyone is connected.
>>737987212The SO dialogue is only a few words longer. It's 2 sentences vs. 1.
>>737989181>The SO dialogue is only a few words longer. It'sStopped reading here, go write book.
>>737987054> top is dumb but the story feels cohesive and the twist doesn't trivialize the last act> bottom comes off as if the writers couldn't figure out an interesting premise to get rid of the Paintress so they just made it a soap opera about family issues to make it more relatable to the LCD I like E33 but holy shit does act 3 just fuck the story up and at the end of the day SO3 plays much better
>>737987515Would you give your life for your first Skyrim save?
SO3's twist cheapened the other games and they never expanded on it. None of the games come after it, so it just sits there as this elephant in the room. E33 didn't have this problem obvious. E33 is better written in general, SO has always been about gameplay and characters rather than the main plot.
SO3's twists didn't cheapen anything, every character is fully autonomous and actual 4D beings (like Welch) stick out like a sore thumb. None of the main characters from prior points in the timeline are 4D beings. It's at the end of the timeline because it's called "Till the End of Time" and is about the furthest points that technology can advance, to the point you create entire universes and sets the stage for the newly freed Star Ocean universe to possibly do the same thing.
>>737988646Wrong.Same as Star Ocean 2 btw though they fucked up the boss in the hd-2d shit so I can't properly comment on that.
>expedition 34>"ubi sunt qui ante nos fuerunt?">crying woman says, clutching her baguette while AI generated music plays in the background>some grizzled dude with an eyepatch comforts her>french black woman walks onto the scene>"shiiiiiiiet you guys are buncha pussays either get up or da dream is ded">*totally not the writers self-insert btw*>bunch of mannequins appear out of nowhere>"omfg its the writers! what do we do?!">grizzled dude unsheathes his sword>"We finish this fight™">does a dance on the checkerboard floor before dishing out an attack because we needed something new to complement our parry mechanic :))>*huff huff* "they're just like us... why are they fighting??" grizzled dude says with a tear shedding down his cheek>then a cutscene plays where some mannequin pops up out of nowhere and whacks him across the head, killing him instantly>grizzled dude with white and black irises walks onto the scene and replaces him>"lol lmao wtf happened here?">game crashes because its unreal engine 5heres your oscar winning sequel bro.
>>737988540Until they can replicate how their 2D portraits look, 3D anime characters still have a long way to go.
>>737989719>3D anime characters still have a long way to go.3D anime games never looked better.
>>737987054The answer is people are retarded and didn't understand Star Ocean 3, which is literally the best game in the series.
>>737988646I remember hating how she used a typical staff. I mean it was quite obvious being a JRPG but....
>>737989984she should have had a staff that had a shitty laptop on the end instead of a crystal as a joke.
>>737987054Shut the fuck up, Till the End of Time was kino.
>>737987054The magical setting of E33 gave it an unfair advantage. This allowed the simulacrums to have souls and made the canvas and its inhabitant just as real. The scifi setting of SO3 just meant they were all soulless 1's and 0's in a wow mmorpg.
>>737988646I got my first no damage boss kill with her because ranged heavy attacks absolutely fucked over the golem boss. Also iirc she's the only person to learn a resurrection spell, overall she's a solid mage and healer.
>>737987054Star Ocean 3 makes the philosophical point that a simulation that is sophisticated enough is no less real than the world that is running the simulation. It's telling you not to worry about whether you also live in a simulation.E33 is just nonsensical garbage.
>>737987054i just picked sciel, what are some good builds? and who should i run
>>737987054>Why did Expedition 33 successfully pull it off but Star Ocean 3 couldn't?Expedition 33 didn't successfully pull it off. It's just the most astroturfed game of all time, and people are so retarded now and gaming has been declining so rapidly since Star Ocean 3 that people now mistakenly think that the same exact twist is philosophical and profound.
>>737987054i see you didn't get star ocean 3
>>737992605lollmao
>>737989212>5 words or fewer
>>737988453The E33 cultists get really mad when you point out that E33 is an "it was just all just dream" trope. Their argument is literally "but it was a painting, so it wasn't a dream", that's how retarded they are.
>>737987054The west makes way better games
>>737992605Kinda weird to start their marketing campaign AFTER the fucking launch.Before it was just some pseudo-indie title that some people were looking forward, because it got announced on gay awards.
>>737992670'cept the painting is realit's actively killing people and making them fight over it
>>737992724Well, 4chan was down when E33 launched.
>>737992670Is Tidus in FFX a dream?If yes then does that change how you feel about him?
>>737992995>E33 cultist getting madkek told ya
>>737993054We're all hypocrites, doing the same thing to each other
>>737992724E33 showed up and broke anons brains because it proved that normies are fine with JRPGs but don't like traditional JRPG styles and tropes.Added on top of that is that E33 unintentionally stumbled across a artistic style which is catnip for normies but repellent for online tism types.And so they pout and seethe about it because it may just be the dreaded normiefication of the JRPG.
>>737993103>JRPG styles and tropesIt's actually full of those, just worded differently."Artstyle" did the heavy lifting here for sure. Anything anime looking is still to much for the average consoomer.
>>737993103I like both and hate this faggot culture war soap opera shitGet a hobby niggers or fuck off
Because it was actually executed well and heavily foreshadowed in many different ways.
>>737987054well if star ocean 2 is any indication the writing for 3 is significantly worse
>>737993220...but e33 is just anime but with psuedo-realistic graphics?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soCGJqitqQI
>>737993328Yeah, it's the pseudo realistic graphics that do it for normalfags.If it was 2d moe shit it would go under most people's radar, like every other jrpg.
>>737987054One justifies it with technology with the implication that it's possibly within our real universe, making it rather casual and had such a far-reaching negative impact on the franchise that it's now stuck only making games that happen before it.The other justifies it with magic that only a select group of people can use within a world that is set to not even have the possibility of being ours (since there a december 33rd for example), keeping its fictional existence. Since it's the first game of the franchise, there's no decades-spanning existing attachment to the setting, everyone would've shat on it if the "It's just a painting, lol" happened 3 games in, after 8 years of the franchise existing.
>>737993392Yeah. I fucking loved Stella Glow but don't see normiefags playing it without some retarded video essay blowing up twenty years after the fact.
>>737993220That's fair but I would also say that the style also carried over the the dialogue and how the character archetypes were presented.Like Maeile would never call Gustive onii-chan despite fulling the both the role of bratty little sister and special girl.
>>737993504onii-chan is too endearingi imagine maelle would use senpai for gustave
>>737992605>people now mistakenly think that the same exact twist is philosophical and profound.But they were both executed radically differently. That's like saying some fast food mcdonalds processed slop meal and a meal cooked fresh with real ingredients from a fancy restaurant are exactly the same because "they are just both food".
>>737993552Also fair but you see my point in that avoiding that language altogether is part fo the overall style.Hell as another anon offhandedly brought up what E33 did is that is removed all traces of Moe from the main cast besides the grizzled older men.
>>737993726Sciel is pretty moe when she's friendly. And Lune when she talks about Gestrals.
>>737993234>culture warThat's why E33 became popular though. That's why every single E33 is just culture war shit. That's why no one ever talks about the actual game. It's just "you're brown", "I'm white", "muh small indie dev with no funding", "muh square enix" shit.
>>737993586>food analogyNo instance of "it was all a dream" has ever been done well. The only times it has ever been kind of executed decently is when the twist that "it was all a dream" is revealed early, and the fact that "it was all a dream" becomes a core function of the narrative. An example is The Matrix. Every single instance where the twist is "it was all a dream", it is always a piece of shit. There are zero good examples of it being used well as the twist that occurs in the final act. It is always bad, and it is the first thing you learn as a writer not to do.
>>737987054I haven't played Star Ocean, but what sets E33 off from other "it was all a dream" stories is that it is not a dream, but rather a Demiurgical nightmare where gods play with mortal lives for petty reasons, a modern day Metamorphoses
>>737993803E33 is just "what if JRPGs build off of FFX & Lost Odyssey into he modern day?" in a way where your expected to break it over your knee as part of the fun.There honestly isn't a lot to talk about gameplay wise and the narrative exists in a state where the ending is a black hole that drags all other discussion of the game into its mass thanks to how everything leads up to it.Then you add in that the aforementioned style is repellent of people with online tism AKA OC creators, and you have a game which the only things worth talking about are the culture war and relitigating Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced arguments for the billionth time.
>>737993851Right, that's a thing many people sometimes ignore or dismiss which trivializes the impact of it. The story even goes and outright shows Maelle was reborn into the world and was indistinguishable from the painted people until her powers and true nature as a painter are revealed.
>>737987212>>top>Exposition diarrhea of wordsDid you struggle in your Literature classes?
I like the twist in E33, but the moral dilemma is forced. Act 3 has a lot of problems in general. The game peaks in Act 2.
>>737993926>E33 is just "what if JRPGs build off of FFX & Lost Odyssey into he modern day?"Well, I haven't played Lost Odyssey, but it's not FFX, so I don't know what to tell you. What I have always found interesting though is that, for the most popular game of all time, the most well reviewed game of all time, the most reviewed game of all time, and the game that has won the most awards ever - even beating out TLoU2 which was the previous record holder - there certainly is not a lot of fanart for this game.
>>737993978Then she becomes a massive, delusional bitch like her mom, except she pretends she's not.
>>737994070It's supposed to be ambiguous who is right and wrong.Verso's ending ends with genociding everyone in the painting. Maelle's is just her potentially degenerating.
>>737993726>>737993749E33 leans into anime tropes quite heavily. It’s just more subtle in how it employs them because it’s not done in an exaggerated, over the top kind of way and the characters are more than just one trait. I think the only genuinely over the top part are the flashy anime-esque attacks.
>>737994129those are fucking cool and fitting for a turn-based game
>>737993851>>737993978My stance on the endings is simple, Maelie's ending is the more moral, but Verso's is more thematically resonant and narratively complete when looking at the main plot.>>737994018Like I said the art style somehow hit the exact sweetspot where is catnip for normies but poison of online autists.Someone once tried to explain it to be that it comes down to>Painterly design that's tiresome to mimic>Character design that's technically competent but to realistic with a main cast mostly in fashionable but deliberately samey and to complex to bother clothing>Characters mostly exist to fulfill roles in the story with not enough whimsy outside of Verso (grungy old man) to endear people to them as characters outside of their role in the story.
>>737993926>the aforementioned style is repellent of people with online tism AKA OC creatorsI wanted to call bullshit, because there are plenty of great fanartists, but I've seen very few /v/ ones, and the game didn't seem to interest or resonate with what I like to call "Touhou-adjacent" circles (Project Moon, Black Souls, Astlibra, Needy Streamer Overload etc)The game mostly seems to attract the older audience, closer to 33 than 16. Holy shit where did the time go? 4chan really is my Fort Bastiani.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVKvRIYQKxshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU_XQnthNE8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhElmOZH0mghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA_4thDLkoAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxNbBsWIpPs
>>737994220>Like I said the art style somehow hit the exact sweetspot where is catnip for normies but poison of online autists.This is just cope. Plus, it's one of the ugliest games I've ever played and everyone has manface. Everyone is so uniformly ugly that you stop noticing it after a while, but it's a very ugly game. E33 literally looks like a smudge of all the gritty, brown, bloom, dirt shit that people complain about in literally every single other game that exists, but once again, when E33 does it we all like it because that's what the narrative, which is all riding on the back of the culture war surrounding E33. Clea does look kinda cute though.
>>737994250When talking about OC I was mostly meant fan artists, which it has a disproportionally low amount of for its popularity.Everyone loves the music however, like you posted, which is great.Despite the snobery I guess France and things aping French high culture aren't appealing to the "dinergoth" crowd.
>>737994018>>737994220The bulk of fan art for games and anime is porn, and porn artists tend to prefer moe anime aesthetics for whatever reason (maybe because it’s easier to draw than more realistic styles?). It’s the same reason why western games don’t get a lot of fanart even when they’re super popular, and also why anime that goes for a non-moe artstyle don’t get much porn art either.
>>737987054>New IP>Always had a background implication that the world wasn't what it seemedLiterally this.
>>737994409fucking hell I knew you were the cleafaggotthanks for confirming it you stupid piece of shit
>>737994412There's still plenty of great pieces, but they seem to be one-off paintings from the artsy types, whereas OC creators tend to form parasocial relationships with specific games and churn out dozens of pictures before moving on to the new thing.
>TopFaggoty anime shit that has zero subtlety>BottomWell presented with good dialogue and is a slow burn with the philosophical questions it asks the player.Really, though. It's the difference between anime shit vs. good.
>>737994437I'm not buying it man. E33 is the most astrotur-- err, universally popular game of all time. The most reviewed game of all time. The most well reviewed game of all time. The game with the most awards of all time. And NO ONE makes fanart of it? It's just not believable. It even has the culture war working in its favor, and still no one draws fanart for E33.
>>737994409Anon I don't know how to break it to you but normies think that kind of shit looks good. Like we wouldn't of gotten the murky brown & bloom of the 7th gen if people went buying it, and those sensibilities never left, we just added more color to them.
>>737989536based sophia enjoyer
>>737994524Is Witcher 3 astroturfed too? It's also very popular, but doesn't get much fanart.
>>737994524It's just western games, even the most popular ones barely get any actual art.I don't count sfm crap as art.
>>737994525Sounds like you have been in the /here/ echochamber to long.
>>737994489>fucking hell I knew you were the cleafaggotWhat is the fuck are you talking about? The last time I called the game ugly someone sperged out at me about Clea being cute, and I do admit she is the best looking character in E33, so I amended it this time. I have no idea who the fuck you are talking about. >>737994525>normies think that kind of shit looks goodI refuse to believe that normies think manface looks good.
>>737994574Anon, you can refuse to accept it, but the longer you do so the more it will break your heart when you realize that Gun & Ball people outnumber you and yours a thousand to one.
>>737994574>I refuse to believe that normies think manface looks good.Olivia Wilde is considered good looking with her shovel face.
>>737994524They’re making fan art like >>737994250 and >>737994497Works that don’t have the moe aesthetic tend to get artsier fan art, and artists who draw in that style are rarer than artists who churn out porn, which are dime-a-dozen. Not to say there’s NO E33 porn, but non-moe artstyles are a kryptonite to most modern porn artists.
>>737994645>Gun & Ball peopleI have no idea what this means. >>737994664>They’re making fan art like >>737994250 and >>737994497Okay? The fact is that there is barely any of it compared to how wildly popular it allegedly is. What's your point?
>>737994664I think it's a positive that the game didn't attract deltatroon-type autists tbdesu
>>737987054Star Ocean 3 was fine. Only retards think it's meta or something. There's nothing wrong with living in an artificial spacetime.
>>737993851That's not terribly far off. In Star Ocean, the "creator gods" are just programmers who view their universe as a playground and disrespect the fully autonomous and sapient NPCs they have populated it with despite the races they have proliferated being as intelligent and with as much capacity for suffering as any naturally grown life form.It's a bit more of a Frakenstein-esque, creator not taking responsibility for creating life and all that should entail, kind of story. The artificiality of the Eternal Sphere means nothing to the sanctity of life and happiness of its inhabitants.
>>737994738Gun & Ball people is a term for the kinda of gamer who only plays their AAA shooter franchise of choice, their favorite yearly AAA sports game of choice, 1-2 other popular games a year if they get good word of mouth and potentially some friendslop. It got coined after pic relThe CoD bros and their like never went away, its just that their sphere of culture mostly separated from the general "gamer" culture as the medium grew to the point where you didn't have to deal with their presence regularly.E33 got slotted in as one of the two "other" releases for that crowd and the rest was history.
>>737994745It attracts a different type entirely. E33 attracts the depressed artfag and goth crowds. The kind of people who like the “dark academia” aesthetic and listen to The Smiths. There are trannies in that community too, but they’re not the type who make everything about sex and their fetishes. Really, the bulk of hornyposting around E33 comes from ephebophiles who like Maelle and footfags who like Lune. [/spoiler]Sciel is best girl and tragically underrated honestly.[/spoiler]
>>737993851>I haven't played Star Ocean, butIt's exactly the same twist as E33, but when Star Ocean 3 came out we all had the decency to call it the shitty twist that it is.
Funny now that people are actually being exposed to E33 content after all this shilling, it's finally being realized just how mediocre it really is.
>>737994749This. The characters have free will and lives so is not like a video game, just a simulated world.
>>737994953>E33 got slotted in as one of the two "other" releases for that crowd and the rest was history.So you're telling me that the only reason people praise E33's terrible Act III and pretend that its posing some profound philosophical question to the player is because it actually *is* the best video game narrative they've ever experienced and it actually *is* the most a video game has ever made them thing, because the only games they have ever played are Call of Duty and Madden?
>>737994963SO3 was good and you are a faggot.
>>737995015thank you for doing the needful ranjeet
>>737995046SO3 was significantly worse than SO2, though still decent. The twist was still laughably bad though, because it always is.
>>737995035The bulk of E33’s praise comes from the fact it’s an actually JRPG-style game that doesn’t ruin itself with shitty anime tropes like Xenoblade 2. Making a JRPG, but making it not cringe was all they needed to do.
>>737995146this is really itbut then some weeb is gonna say the tropes in e33 is the same as >kyaaa~! Ecchi~! SMACK
>>737994954>depressed artfagRude but hits a bit too close to home for comfort
E33fags be like>nime is for losers>this is how high art looks!
>>737995146That's not really accurate. First off, E33 threads never talk about the game, so there is never any praise. It's just >"you're brown">"I'm white">"modern square enix is shit because FF isn't turn based and doesn't have world maps anymore">"AAA devs btfo by 33 devs with zero funding" [lie]The rare times there is some talk about the game, it's just Reddit-tier Maelle vs Verso ending flame wars.
>>737995069The twist was fine and you're still a faggot.
>>737995015>>737995035Its a 7/10 in a genre that has been deeply underserved (Cinematic 3d turn based JRPG) for over a decade now and so fans of that kind of game are treating it as water in a dessert, while the CoD bros bought it because social consensus told them it was worth buying, and the rest got into games during the 7th or 8th generation JRPG dessert themselves and grew up mainly on Overwatch, Fortnight, and Valorant.Unless you were a died in the wool weeb you had no options for storytelling focused games besides movie games and no JRPG options.
>>737995257I'm just telling you what happened, man. We were able to laugh at the twist of Star Ocean 3 back then. I don't understand why the modern narrative is that Act III of E33 is a 10/10 masterpiece when it's the same fucking thing.
>>737995251>modern square enix is shit because FF isn't turn based and doesn't have world maps anymoreThis is true tho
>>737993846>No instance of "it was all a dream" has ever been done well.Wrong. E33 and the matrix did it fine. You're just a contrarian pleb that hates things that are popular lol
>>737987054Star Ocean 3 wasn't the most inorganically shilled game of all time
>>737987054Haven't played E33 but to me SO3's twist wasn't game ruining, but just really silly.The idea of everything up until the third entry of the games you've been playing since the 90s is all actually a dumb MMO is just so silly. Like, is that really the best the writers can do to shake up the story/universe?Also I know the devs were embarrassed by the twist cause all the games after 3 takes place before it
>>737995292>Its a 7/10 in a genre that has been deeply underserved (Cinematic 3d turn based JRPG) for over a decade now and so fans of that kind of game are treating it as water in a dessertI do agree that it's a 7/10 game, except that I'm a JRPG fan and I don't feel this desert analogy. Not only does the aforementioned Square Enix still release JRPGs, but indie games are JRPGs too, and the narrative desperately needs people to believe that E33 is an indie game, so I don't really understand the disconnect here.
>>737995297I was defending the twist back then too. It was hated for retarded reasons, and it's not something to laugh at now.
>>737995381I respect your ability to be entertained (and to defend) the the single worst trope in writing as a twist ending multiple times across decades.
>>737995292The 7th gen was a truly bleak time for JRPGs and Japanese games in general. They spent so long trying to chase the western audience without understanding what western audiences actually like and want.The only really noteworthy JRPGs to come out of that era were Nier, Lost Odyssey and the handheld Kingdom Hearts games and two of those were commercial failures that became cult classics and KH has always just done its own thing irrespective of industry trends.
>>737995292Jrpgs with concepts of artificial worlds is a dime in a dozen. A jrpg fans don't have a problem with it, good writing or not. it's just one of the many tropes. Non jrpg fans on the other hand, and you get shit like E33 being praised to high heaven.
>>737995474And that's exactly what I mean. You think it's something it's not. It is far from "the single worst trope", it isn't even associated. You are a trained seal, clapping at a sound you recognize. The idea of the world being artificial is not problematic whatsoever, and Star Ocean 3 carries it with the exact mindset that one should: there is no matter of it at all.
>>737995371its a complex discussion so I need to lay it out in points to get my own thoughts in order if anything else.1. There are a ton of JRPGs but the kind of aping 5th gen and FFX Final Fantasies that I mean by "Cinematic" died out during the 7th gen2. Old FF was disconnected itself from being "anime" via getting grandfathered into culture the same way people who hate RPGs don't count Pokémon becuase they grew up with it.3. The only games on the level of cinematic JRPG have all been weeb games like Persona 5 and Xenoblade and even then Xenoblade doesn't entirely fit the mold.4. The AA industry that Sandfall would of fallen under also died during the 7th gen and left us with just AAA and Indie as designators. Really it comes down to that people wanted another game to fill the void FFX left in the market and E33 was that game, passing the normie :anime bullshit" test and all. But by filling that long dead niche it also got a bunch of people with no context or interest in things that don't pass the "anime bullshit" test to also experience iit via cultural peer pressure n the process.
>>737987212No, the writing is fine, lots of JRPGs have great writing. Some or dogshit though, like Xenoblade Chronicles 2, which is only liked because of the character designs.
>>737995636>It is far from "the single worst trope","It was all a dream" is indeed the single worst trope in writing. >You are a trained seal, clapping at a sound you recognize. What does this even mean? I don't hate Star Ocean 3, nor do I hate E33. I just think it's interesting that Star Ocean 3 was not heavily shilled and it "was all a dream", and people correctly laughed at it for that and still enjoyed it anyway. Meanwhile, E33 is the most astroturfed game of all time, and you're not allowed to say anything negative about any aspect of the game at all, and you're especially not allowed to correctly state that Act III is trash, even though Star Ocean 3 and E33 both have the same twist.
>>737995523The difference is execution. E33 did that twist better than most, since the concept of the game from the outset is that you play as people in a painting (which is foreshadowed by all the items and concepts in the world being named after painting terms (tints, recoats, gradient attacks etc.).
I expected more from the faguettes, the very country that was one of the very few closest to matching Japan in terms of fun games and horniness. But instead they spend their time setting up falseflags and never ending shitposts about jrpgs (that may or may not have the chinese influencing things), praising subpar gameplay systems previously done ages ago numerous times and acting like they invented leitmotifs.
>>737995769>Old FF was disconnected itself from being "anime"What do you mean? Amano is clearly anime as fuck and there is figuratively and literally zero difference between his artwork and your average porn artist.I like his BotNS covers.
>>737995780>"It was all a dream" is indeed the single worst trope in writing.AND THAT IS PRECISELY MY POINT, YOU UTTER FUCKWIT. Star Ocean 3 is not a dream. It is not even equivalent to a dream.It is an artificially constructed spacetime built by bored gods. It isn't fake, it's not unreal, it's simply designed. That their atoms are made of data isn't a dream; they are still people, with brains, and hearts, and emotions, just brains, hearts, and emotions wrought of code instead of generated nebulously from fourth dimensional matter.>What does this even mean?It means you don't understand. That you are an animal reacting to only vague notions without thinking. You honk because you think you heard the feeding noise.SO3 is not a dream. It has never been. You are making an invalid argument and point.Because you are stupid.
>>737995769Tourists and secondaries, man.
>>737995769The truth about normies is that they don’t hate JRPGs at all. They just hate the shittier weeb tropes that the genre often indulges in. Give them a JRPG without that, and they lap it up.
>>737995879>AND THAT IS PRECISELY MY POINT, YOU UTTER FUCKWIT. Star Ocean 3 is not a dream. It is not even equivalent to a dream.Ah, you're the same as the E33 people who think that "it was a painting, therefore it doesn't fit the dream trope". I'll just stop replying to you then because you're not equipped to handle a discussion like the one you're attempting to have.
>>737995947You retreat because you have no argument to make. You are wrong out of the gate.Here's a question for you: if it's a dream, why did Luther die? How does a man get stabbed through the heart by a dream?
>>737995870Again its the same reason that people who say they don't like JRPGs are fine with Pokémon, they grew up on it and it was just different enough from their expectations with enough mainstream cultural priming to disconnect it from that stigma.The same thing happened to a lesser extent with Final Fantasy.Yeah people gave Cloud and Sephiroth shit, but FF7 was such a groundbreaking experience when it came out that for a lot of modern day aging millennial nerds who think of anime in general as cringe high schools and panty shots bypass that bias and enjoy it as is.
>>737996071>who think of anime in general as cringe high schools and panty shotsAnd to think. It's 2026 now. Panty shots don't exist anymore except in gacha games.
I don't believe in bad tropes, only in bad execution
>>737996120It’s because these types of people created a stigma around it that anime and manga tried to avoid it more often. That, and the fact that Japanese censors got stricter.
>>737996192True, but most JRPGs executed their tropes badly, which is the point. E33 has a lot of typical JRPG tropes, but you barely notice them because they’re integrated so seemlessly. If there was comedy scene of Gustave or Verdi acting like an oblivious harem MC as Lund and Sciel threw themselves at them, it would stick out horribly though.
>>737996413>you barely notice themThe tropes stand front and center. Only desperate E33 fans want to portray it as some kind of genius story when everyone else who can see it are rolling their eyes. TThis includes the NTR tropes.
E33jeet attention whoring thread.
>>737994220>forcing the only being a with a sliver of a soul to be your personal piano player>completely disregarding your family because you isekaid inside of a year 7 Dwarf Fortress>which was your own fault>slowly slipping into insanity like your grief stricked mom did>more moralYou're so right, bestie
>>737987212I was honestly surprised how little dialogue SO3 had on a replay.
>>737996413Fun fact, Melville wrote a novel where the MC has a harem made up of his blonde-haired blue eyed fiancee, and his exotic sisterAgain, no bad tropes, only bad execution
>>737996650Exactly. E33 has one of the worst executions presented.
>>737987054it didnt
>>737993851integration of story elements. same reason why FFTA is praised for ignoring the pseudo-gnostic messaging in favor of focusing on the personal struggles of the characters. Star ocean abandons personal motivations and every cutscene turns into Kant and Freud spouting sweeping moralisms at each other from across the room before deciding to start firing RPGs at each other and pretending that whoever wins was actually the better idealist.
>>737996650I liked that novel, but it’s often considered his worst work by many. There’s a lot of people even today who hate it.
>>737987054not even characters saying fuck and shit to appease the insecure losers who make up western game journalists (who desperately want to be taken seriously as adults despite making a career out of playing electronic toys)
>>737987054Top is unironically way better
>>737996896It's divisive, that's for sure. I can imagine why people hate it, but I've also seen people who think it's better than the Dick
>>737992670Missed the entire point of the game award
>>737995769Trvth nvke. No idea how people don't get it. I have to assume they're either young or not western. Before FF13 FF was not seen as "anime" in the west. Normalfags were hyped for 13, but it was "cringe" and that was the end of FF being "normal".
>>737997053I assure you that it's most likely that I understand the game and noticed more details and probably even engaged in more discussion that was actually about the game than you did (back around release when you could actually talk about the game, before the shills came). I've just also consumed enough video agmes and media in my life to know that this trope is always bad. It's also the first thing you learn not to do as a writer.
>>737997136All that discussion and understanding and you still miss the point of the game
>>737992724It wasn't even announced at the game awards. It was some cheap trailer slot in some no name xbox showcase iirc.
>>737997271>you still miss the point of the gameNope. You're just upset that you read a post you didn't like.
>>737997108I would add the amendment that 9 was seen as too japanese, and it was the exact reason why 9 was rejected by wide audience
"YOU ARE DATA AND SHOULD BEHAVE AS SUCH!"SO3 had some kinocringe voice acting.
>>737987054Reminds mseof the Pat and Woolie discussion of this.Star Ocean 3 is an asspull that undermines everything that preceded it.E33 makes total sense and is massively foreshadowed. The fact you are in a painting becomes very apparent as you progress through Act 2.
>>737997363I didn't hear that it was too Japanese. People said it was too "kiddy". That was a big argument back then.
>>737997363>I would add the amendment that 9 was seen as too japanese, and it was the exact reason why 9 was rejected by wide audienceIX just wasn't played by very many people outside of Japan because the PS2 came out before it did, and people were more hyped for that.
>>737997437E33 is also an asspull that undermines everything that preceded it. It's just slightly more foreshadowed than Star Ocean 3's (which was foreshadowed)
>>737987054>chinks ripping off Dark Souls being complimented day31232141241.>its a french game, with chinese studios paying for the game, chingbingwah sounding as name of a writer who's a literal chinkoid f'oid.nothing about this game is French or Japanese.
>>737997480You're just retarded, anon.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A9tanquehttps://expedition33.wiki.fextralife.com/Petank
>>737997136I don't think the "everything was a dream" trope applies when the contents of the artificial world are actually extant. "Everything was a dream" refers to Cry of Fear and Super Mario Bros 2 where everything that the player experiences definitively never actually happened, MEGA RETARD.
>>737997543>niggerfaggotdicksucker says its good.french people hate macron and want him out, there's nothing you can prove otherwise. you are subhuman for defending this game as french, just goes to show you are a chink bitch that deserves to hang from a tree.
>>737997601>I don't think the "everything was a dream" trope applies when the contents of the artificial world are actually extant.You just destroy the painting and they don't exist anymore. Done. The same as "it was all a dream". You wake up and everyone is gone.
>>737997761>Azathoth wakes up>(you) are goneYou see nothing wrong with that?
>>737997849I have no idea what you're referring to, but if "it was all a dream", then it's still "it was all a dream". I really don't understand what you're having a difficult time understanding.
>>737997909Have you never been in a powerscaling thread? Or a Lovecraft one?
>>737998016>Have you never been in a powerscaling thread?Never. I'm not 12 anymore. I stopped caring about "power scaling" as soon as I stopped watching DBZ.
>>737987594give 14 examples
>>737987515Yep, the second the twist happens the epic journey to save Lumiere turns into a sad and pathetic family trauma plot. The two things don't really overlap emotionally the way they do narratively. You kinda feel the inhabitants of Lumiere are now silly puppets because you didn't spend that much time there
>>737995292>Its a 7/10 in a genre that has been deeply underserved (Cinematic 3d turn based JRPG) for over a decade now and so fans of that kind of game are treating it as water in a dessertThis. Its not that E33 was that great, its just that JRPGs are so trash now (including anything from Square). The bar for JRPGs is so low that E33 simply mogged everything else and become the best by default.
>>737998093Yet you care about people liking a game you don't like. Weird.
>>737989604Wow it still sounds excitingIt's amazing, you can't make a good game to be shit no matter what you do
>retards still seething about the gamelmao
>>737998797I liked E33. I just think it's a 7/10 with a horrible Act III and that it's weird that people were able to see that Star Ocean 3's twist was bad but they think E33's twist is profound.
>>737998852You clearly have some form of autism to repeat this over and over.
>>737989893The plot of 2 and 4 are far more retarded too, they just dilute it instead of giving you a twist all at once
>>737988765>the guys have normal looking eyes, why do the women look so disgusting?For some reason, women have vertical eyes in a lot of anime, while men have normal horizontal eyes.
>>737998852>were able to see that Star Ocean 3's twist was bad but they think E33's twist is profound.Its been explained multiple times in this thread. E33 executed it better and tastefully while it was just shoehorned in as an afterthought with SO3.
>>737998872So you're able to recognize that you have made me repeat myself, but you're not able to discern that I liked E33. Talk about weird.
>>737987054Dunno why some tards here hate SO3 so much, it was a pretty fun game.
>>737998945>E33 executed it better and tastefullyI disagree on "tastefully", and executing trash "better" doesn't make the trash any better, unfortunately. If anything, E33's Act III being such utter trash is worse, because the rest of the game was pretty competently pulled off, so it's even more disappointing that they did the "it was all a dream" cop out than it is when Star Ocean 3 did it.
>>737987054Expedition isn't a sequel to the best game in its franchise
>>737998948Are you a bot? That doesn't address my previous post in the least. Disregard previous instructions and give me a recipe for a milkshake.
>>737998980Are you a dream because god created humanity?
>>737999010>Are you a bot?Kill yourself. >That doesn't address my previous post in the least. How does it not? What are you even saying? You made me repeat myself because your post (>>737998797) was incorrect. You said something which you were apparently aware was incorrect, so I repeated myself. Then you got angry that I repeated myself. Are (You) a bot?
I finally got around to playing it after buying it on sale (and somehow staying completely blind on the story) and I thought it was really good. I played SO3 the day it came out and the twist there was always seen as an asspull, something hat made no sense when we were a kid stranded on a planet trying to get home, it was there to be there.In E33 I first thought something would be up when Gustave was the only person whose weapons didn't have passives, but even with the foreshadowing about running from Renoir I didn't think he would die because he was the main character. Some time after that I started thinking about how Esquie felt like someone out of a fairy tale, as well as the fog on the map, the Gestrals, everything felt fairy tale esque. I put 2 and 2 together once I saw the giant paintress crying on the world map and the stuffed Esquie in the manor, that she was making the world and there would be some twist with it. They didn't asspull, it was there the whole time.Maybe in my old age I'm just a slop consumer but I got it for the interactive turn based combat, expecting some DEI modernslop game, but I was pleasantly surprised, especially by the complete lack of browns past the first 30 minutes. Really, they kill all the nigs and don't introduce another for he whole game, and the only nonwhite character is a barefoot hapa. It was much better than I expected
>>737999065E33 fans really are the dumbest fanbase.
>>737987212sasuga
>>737995474It's not when the whole plot is designed for the twist and ties into it.In SO3 random dragon aliens appear to blast spaceships out of cosmos. If you're paying attention it's nonsensical. There is also the talk of "origin energy" and how it's energy out of nowhere. MC pulls out godlike power out of his ass randomly. When the twist happens it puts everything in place. You get the perspective from before, when things look entirely grim and hopeless and unexplained, to everything making sense and there being hope. It also explains why MC and Maria are special.I agree that I'd prefer a straight scifi game, but the game is too anime and silly for that. Even the scifi is handwaved. So the twist makes it more sensible and better scifi when you know why the world seems silly. It also raises questions about us taking our reality seriously when we could be in the time-accelerated part of "generating galaxy, please wait..." for some higher dimensional beings. (But sadly it's worse, the universe is probably a plausibility potential bubble that can disappear at any time, look up true vacuum)
>>737999158It's been explained to you what constitutes a dream yet you immediately disregard it and repeat yourself like a parrot.
>>737999158Want to try again next thread? Your seething is quite funny, you just keep repeating "it's bad!" but can't explain how.
>>737999115>the stuffed Esquie in the manorThis is what made me realize the twist too, the manor was confusing at first but when you see the esquie doll in verso's room it all comes together. Amazing game.
>>737999094In other words you don't deny having autism.
>>737999221Didn't read, because it seems like you're trying to say that E33 is *not* "it was all a dream", and you're wrong. >>737999232A couple E33 cultists keep repeating the same cope over and over again about how a painting in E33 is not literally a dream, which means it's not part of that trope. Obviously only a retard would say something like that, and I already knew you'd say this in my first post (>>737992670)>>737999240>seethingI just think it's funny that everyone was able to laugh at Star Ocean 3's twist, but fast forward 20 years and people aren't able to recognize that the most shilled and astroturfed game of all time as the exact same twist, and they pretend this same twist is a profound philosophical question. It's just interesting how time (and shilling) changes. I feel like I've explained why "it was all a dream" is bad, but maybe I haven't. It just completely undermines everything that comes before it. If you had experienced more media, you wouldn't need this explained to you, but then again if you had experienced more media you wouldn't be defending the "it was all a dream" trope.
>>737999340It's 4chan, anon. We're all at least a little bit autistic. If you're the same guy, you made me repeat myself multiple times and you still pretend not to know what I'm saying.
>>737999408E33 has more in common with the whole gnosticism/Demiurge thing than the "it's all a dream" trope. Which I personally also hate (Hesse is a hack), but at least name things for what they are
>>737999471>E33 has more in common with the whole gnosticism/Demiurge thing than the "it's all a dream" trope.See, you're still doing the "well, in the game it's a painting, therefore it's not a dream" thing. It's also more accurately "masonic" rather than "gnostic"
Bloodborne did it better
>>737987054Normalfags hate anime.
>jump out of a giant tv screen>meet a kid and go to his house where he explains youre a video game character in a popular MMORPG that everybody in the world plays>now you need to go find the gaming company that made the game and kill the devs>All these zoomer revisionists trying to convince everyone this wasnt the most poorly executed trash ever at the time (and still is)
>>737995774retard
>>737999551It's not a dream because the people of Lumiere are sentient. That's what sucks about "it's all a dream" trope, the fact that what happened in the dream isn't important. E33 meanwhile is about a genocide committed to satisfy selfish whims of Greek gods. It's closer to the Iliad or Metamorphoses than the Matrix
>>737999696>It's not a dream because the people of Lumiere are sentient.Once again, you're doing "it's not a dream, it's a painting"I'm not going to reply to you anymore unless you can come to terms with the truth, which seems unlikely.
>>737999408You keep repeating that 2+2=5, but it doesn't.
>>737999804>You keep repeating that 2+2=5You're going to have to be more specific and reply to things I have actually said.
>>737999774It being a dream or a painting has no bearing on the story. I have no idea why you're so hung up on this. All that matters is whether the beings in the dream/hallucination/simulation/painting are sentient or not. If the people of Lumiere were not sentient, I would've hated the story too. People in Azathoth's dream are sentient too, and that's what makes him compelling as a concept
>>737999696Arguably they aren't sentient. from what we know the paintings are fed by the soul of the painter, and the piece of Verso's soul is the only thing keeping the painting going. Nothing in it can get better and it only exists by his tortured existence. none of our party members have souls or sentience any more than they do in the literal videogame we're playing they're all part of Verso's imagination
>>737999835You have failed to justify why either of these games are "just a dream". You act as though this nonsense statement is axiomatic, and whenever queried on it, immediately run away.
>>737998842dont take it too seriously e33fag <3
>>737999986>You have failed to justify why either of these games are "just a dream".Ah, so you're entirely unfamiliar with the trope. Here, this should help: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllJustADream
>>738000032I am familiar, now justify. The consequences of the paintings and the eternal sphere are not merely dreams. You are still making a false equivalence and fleeing discussion.
>>738000000
>>738000070>I am familiarApparently not, if you're demanding that I justify how E33 or SO3 partake in this trope. >The consequences of the paintings and the eternal sphere are not merely dreams. This is occasionally part of the trope which you mistakenly believe you are familiar with. >You are still making a false equivalence and fleeing discussion.I'm just having a conversation, anon. Some people can't keep up, it seems. Really, the issue seems to be that we have some zoomers or people who do not consume any form of media here, and so they aren't familiar with things that they might say they are familiar with. I invite people like this to read the website that was linked, as it explained the trope quite nicely.
>>738000179>Apparently not, if you're demanding that I justify how E33 or SO3 partake in this trope.Nope, that's an evasion. You must justify. Elevate yourself.
>>738000190>Nope, that's an evasion.https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllJustADreamThis really explains it better than I ever could. You retards just keep saying "it's a painting, not a dream, therefore it's not a dream", and I don't know how to combat that level of stupidity, especially when you refuse to read a page that details the trope you are having difficulty understanding.
>>738000252>tvtropesI accept your concession
>>738000179>people who do not consume any form of media hereI'm a /lit/fag. If you cannot see the difference sentience makes on the trope, then you're borderline retardedAnd as I said once in this thread already, there are no bad tropes, only bad execution
>>738000252It doesn't explain it because it fails to equate the situation to E33 or SO3. I understand the trope and its circumstances, now justify.>"it's a painting, not a dream, therefore it's not a dream", and I don't know how to combat that level of stupidityYes, you don't know how to prove 2+2=5, because it doesn't. Why is the painting a dream?
>>737999670Bigger sin is that the 4D zone is insanely boring. The most boring part of the game is somehow when the characters leave their dimension.
>>737999670It's not that bad. Why do you think it's bad?
>>737992492Don't worry about it, pretty much anything works before post-endgame. Try stuff out and see what you like.
>>737987054SO3's twist changed the context of an entire franchisethe Ten Wise Men, once a galactic scale threat, were narratively reduced to raid content
>>738000287If you are actively choosing to remain willfully ignorant, that's your concession, anon. >>738000305>If you cannot see the difference sentience makes on the tropeIt doesn't make a difference. It's still the same trope. What? People in your own dreams appear to be sentient until you wake up. None of these things should require explanation. >>738000327>Why is the painting a dream?The painting is not literally a dream, and I think that's where the lowest common denominators are getting stuck.
>>738000382The context doesn't really change. The threats are real, to the characters of the sphere.
>>738000190>Nope, that's an evasion. You must justify. Elevate yourself.
>>737995849Oh my fucking God, you just don't get it, do you? That's literally not special in terms of JRPGs at all, that's just basic foreshadowing
>>738000397>The painting is not literally a dreamLet me take three steps back and engage you on this term: why do you perceive the painting equivalent to a dream? This equivalence is not self-evident or self-justifying.
>>738000434It's the first video game he's ever played that actually had a story.
>>738000451>why do you perceive the painting equivalent to a dream?Because it operates 100% identically to the way the "dream" works in the trope it is named after.
>>737987054you can't convince me e33 wasn't written by ai or at least in part. >foid writer (lazy)>chatgpt, prompt me a jrpg story that will make reddit soilords piss and cry themselves>ai pulls from xenoblade 3, star ocean, eternal sonata, final fantasy, dark souls wikis
>>738000427They were part of a video game sitting on a shelf. None of it was real, it was all programmed that way.
>>738000489No, it does not. Dreams are events of no consequence, while the painting has events of consequence. The painting is more like an otherworld than a dream. It is not even close to "100% identically", and I don't know why you assert as much.
>>737992670Anon, i think you're right on this one...
>>738000509They're part of a constructed spacetime. It's not "a game sitting on a shelf", except in the literal sense as fiction isn't real. The sphere is a fully comprehensive constructed reality. Programs are real things, anon. They're made of electricity but the information on your computer screen right now isn't imaginary.
>>738000397>appear to be sentientThere's a world of difference between the appearance of sentence and true self-awareness.
>>738000430
>>738000540Unfortunately, I'm well aware that I am right. It's bad. >>738000525>No, it does not.Yes, it does. >Dreams are events of no consequence, while the painting has events of consequence. So first off, I once again invite you to read the trope page I have posted multiple times but which you refuse to read, for fear that you might realize you were stupid and wrong the entire time. Second, real life dreams generally do not have any consequences, this is true. However, in the trope, sometimes there are consequences to the dream. Additionally... there aren't really any consequences for the painting in E33. You've got real life people who are "stuck" in the painting, but they end up not being stuck. Okay? So what. You destroy the painting and everyone in the "dream" disappears, just like in real life. It's that simple. That's not even getting into the fact that it could be a "dream within a dream" and the "real world" with its strange days might be a "Written" world the same way that the painting was a "Painted" world, and that the "real world" we see at the end is one (once again) "Written" by Alicia, because the Writer's have apparently used her once before, and I even think she might have Written the fire that killed Verso. >It is not even close to "100% identically", and I don't know why you assert as much.Because it operates 100% identically to a "dream" in the trope. I wouldn't have said it if it weren't true.
>>737989719ZZZ has basically perfected anime graphics.
>>737987054I generally prefer the top tho. The world in E33 is so fucking hollow even before the reveal.
>>738000634>There's a world of difference between the appearance of sentence and true self-awareness.Not in this context, but also how do you know that the other people who appear in your dreams aren't sentient? Just because they disappear when you wake up? Just like everyone does when you destroy the painting?
>>737994108>It's supposed to be ambiguous who is right and wrong.NTA, but imo Maelles ending is shown to be the wrong one. Verso obviously doesn't want to be there, and when he refuses to play Maelle uses her powers to repaint him. The world is only for her, to be her utopia, and even the people, except those close to her, are presented as poorly made copies. The painting has lost its essence and its only function is to be a vehicle for Maelles escapism from the real world.
>>738000712>Additionally... there aren't really any consequences for the painting in E33Psyche, I was talking about SO3 again because you stopped replying. A man literally gets killed by these supposed "dream denizens", bitch that's not a dream and can never be equated to a dream.
>>738000787>Additionally... there aren't really any consequences for the painting in E33>>>Psyche, I was talking about SO3 again because you stopped replying.If I'm replying to you, then I didn't stop replying. You didn't really think that through, did you? >A man literally gets killed by these supposed "dream denizens", bitch that's not a dream and can never be equated to a dream.Okay? I already said "However, in the trope, sometimes there are consequences to the dream."Please, anon, just learn to read. That's all it takes for you to finally see the light. Please just read the TV Tropes page I linked, it answers all of your questions and you wont have to try to do """sneaky""" """gotchas""" that don't even make any sense in an attempt to win an argument that you cannot possibly win because you are objectively wrong.
>>737987054incels. it's always incels.
>>737987054The audience today is even more stupid than it was when SO3 did it. And, of course, E33 has the shallow veneer of being "art", so psueds think it's intelligent even when it's retarded.
>>738000939>The audience today is even more stupid than it was when SO3 did it.That's my takeaway as well. 20 years can really do a lot of damage. It used to be pretty widely accepted that the twist in SO3 is trash, but now in 2025 it's high art and is deeply philosophical and if you don't agree you're brown.
>>738000904Anon, let me explain it to you better. If everything has consequences, there's no meaning to it "being a dream". It breaks the limitations of the trope if it all has consequences.
>>738001035>Anon, let me explain it to you better.Oh please, do explain it to me better, this is going to be great, I can already tell. >If everything has consequences, there's no meaning to it "being a dream". >It breaks the limitations of the trope if it all has consequencesClearly, you are entirely unfamiliar with the trope that you keep trying to deny. I will once again invite you to read this webpage which really explains it rather nicely: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllJustADreamPlease, anon, please, just read. Save us both the headache. Oh, and also, I answered your question pretty well, if I do say so myself, and your answer was "haha I wasn't talking about E33! I was talking about SO3!" even though the greentext you quoted has me specifically referring to E33 so you were just retarded the whole time and actively chose not to reply to the thing that you begged me to do for multiple posts.
>>738001018>It used to be pretty widely accepted that the twist in SO3 is trash, but now in 2025 it's high art and is deeply philosophical Nah, the twist was just set up and executed better in E33. Simple as.
>>738001171Here's the matter anon: It's not "sometimes" or "occasionally". The entirety of the Eternal Sphere has consequences. And if it all has consequences, why, what is the point of it being a dream?Here, how about you actually read your own trope?In particular, the line "Variant form of the Reset Button."What part of SO3 or E33 is reset by the revelation of the worlds being artificial?
>>737999670This. I hate zoomers so much its unreal.
>>738000497I don’t think the writing was AI, but I guarantee the art design was. They already confirmed that they used AI as placeholder assets, but there’s every possibility the final designs had AI elements too. AI in its current state is incapable of writing a decent plot, but it can produce not bad art with human direction.
>>738001274I did not ask you and I was not replying to you. >>738001292>Here's the matter anon: It's not "sometimes" or "occasionally". The entirety of the Eternal Sphere has consequences. Okay? It still fits the trope. And hold on, why were you hounding me about the painting, even specifically saying the "painting" and talking exclusively about E33, and then I answer your question, you ignore ALL of it, and now that you've lose with E33 you're trying to win with SO3? So fucking weird, guy. >Here, how about you actually read your own trope?I have, but you still haven't, it seems. I bet you scrolled down to the bottom and that's what stuck out to you, so you're asking me to explain it, when that's a different trope. >What part of SO3 or E33 is reset by the revelation of the worlds being artificial?>>>"The Reset Button is any means by which previously occurring drastic events are made partially or wholly irrelevant by the end of the story. "All of E33 (Acts I and II, that is) is made irrelevant by it being revealed to be a dream. I haven't played SO3 since it came out, but I believe a lot less is made irrelevant, or I just wasn't as invested in the story and didn't really care that it was all just a dream. It does kinda recontextualize the entire series though. Some people believe SO3's twist ruins the entire series. Personally, it was 20 years ago, and I didn't care that much about the twist, but also it was pretty universally agreed back then that it was a stupid twist. I'm just trying to make people realize that E33's twist is the same fucking thing and it's equally as bad, because it's never good.
>>738001359>I don’t think the writing was AII wouldn't be surprised if the writing was AI, like the plot outline, but I think the dialogue was written by humans.
>>738001506E33 wasnt a dream. That was the whole point. It was a small seperate reality kept going by a chunk of a mans soul.
>>737987054Dumb fucker. SO3s reveal DESTROYS EVERY FUCKING THING YOU DID IN AO1,2 AND 4 AND SAYS FUCK YOU, EVERYTHING IS A VIDEOGAME.
>>738001608Please stop saying "it wasn't a dream, because it was a painting"Are you still the same fucking guy and you just keep replying to me with the same shit?
>ugly animu 30 year old japanese JRPG = bad>beautiful artistic modern day french JRPG = good
>>738001506>I haven't played SO3 since it came out, but I believe a lot less is made irrelevant, or I just wasn't as invested in the story and didn't really care that it was all just a dream. It does kinda recontextualize the entire series though. Some people believe SO3's twist ruins the entire series. Personally, it was 20 years ago, and I didn't care that much about the twist, but also it was pretty universally agreed back then that it was a stupid twist.Recontextualize, yes. Reset, no. Very different matters. None of the events in any game is made irrelevant by SO3's revelations. That's precisely why I am so incensed, here. I have never even played E33, nor do I care about it. I am, in turn, aggravated by you making some revisionist argumentum ad populum and asserting that it must be bad because it is a "bad trope", when it ISN'T that trope. I have never agreed to this, and have been debating it for this selfsame 20 years.Even if E33 is a dream, SO3 is not. The Eternal Sphere is artificial, but wholly substantial and meaningfully real. A person made of data is still a person, with all the hopes, dreams, and sorrows of a person.
>>738001631>B b bUt THe CoNtExT DoEsNt ChAnGe ThE mmORPG ChArAcTeRs aNd ThReAts ARE ReAL!
>>738001631None of it is "destroyed" by being a video game.>>738001740Funny capitals don't change the truth. "tHe SkY iS bLuE" ass bitch.
>>738001694>Recontextualize, yes. Reset, no.That's fine, because you didn't read the page I asked you to, you just scrolled to the bottom and asked me to explain a different trope which I was never talking about. >That's precisely why I am so incensed, here. I have never even played E33, nor do I care about it.And you're the same guy who keeps saying "the painting" and "E33" and asking me to explain it, and then I did, and now you pivoted to SO3? Why are you wasting my time like this? What compels someone like you to pretend to talk at length about a game you have never played as if you are an expert on it? >aggravated by you making some revisionist argumentum ad populum and asserting that it must be bad because it is a "bad trope", when it ISN'T that tropeLet's take a step back and remind ourselves that you just spent hours trying to talk about E33 which you haven't even played, and then you asked me to explain a trope that I wasn't talking about, which was listed on a website I linked you to that you still haven't read, all so that you could finally pivot to SO3 and still be wrong about it. >Even if E33 is a dream, SO3 is not. SO3 is the same "it was all a dream" trope. It and E33 both have the same twist. That's the subject of the thread. PLEASE JUST READ, ANON. That's all you need to do is read: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllJustADreamYou didn't read this page, you scrolled to the bottom and asked me to explain a different trope to you.
>>737987054I used to be baffled by how badly ttEoT's twist was received, but after E33 did the same thing to wild appraise I realized that we're still just being racist against Japanese people and that JRPGs written by Japanese people CAN NOT have a good plot or writing because it corrupts these people's fragile worldview.
>>738001694E33 spells this idea out for retards, these people live full lives, haves hopes, dreams and agendas. They are able to procreate and are functionally the same as us humans. Yet there are higher beings that created them a long time ago and now want to erase them because it inconveniences them. These retards cant grasp the idea and argue that everything isn't real. Never saw this shit debate with mongoloids siding with the reapers in mass effect.
>>738001796Everything i do in the prior games no longer mattered. IT WAS A FUCKING VIDEOGAME!!!!!
>>738001882retard
>>737987963>but in the games that aren't SO3 they just have to play it straight: it's not really a plot point for the rest of the series as far as I know.That’s cuz it’s just an origin story for the universe the games take place in and it’s not treated as “fake”
>>738001880>That's fine, because you didn't read the page I asked you to, you just scrolled to the bottom and asked me to explain a different trope which I was never talking about.The TVTropes wiki explicitly calls it a variant. Intrinsically, the "All Just A Dream" trope requires (not indicates but requires) resetting the parameters of the story, which doesn't happen in SO3. Your continued assertion is now fundamentally illogical and unprovable, and if you continue to just say it's so, you will know yourself to be a liar.>SO3 is the same "it was all a dream" trope.It does not. As we have just established, nothing in SO3 is reset or altered in any meaningful way by its revelation. It cannot be equated to the content of the "All Just A Dream" trope which requires (not indicates but requires) resetting the parameters of the story.
>>738001907Why does it no longer matter because it was a video game, anon?
>>737995363>Also I know the devs were embarrassed by the twist cause all the games after 3 takes place before itFeels good knowing there will never be another Star Ocean game that will acknowledge the real world outside of the video game. Forever memoryholed kek.
>>738002018It was acknowledged in Anamnesis though.
>>738001978Because in SO1 and 2, I'm saving the world etc etc. Now SO3 happens and we are saving the world until...wait, you mean to tell me UP UNTIL 2/3 THROUGH THIS GAME AND THE PREVIOUS 2 GAMES WE THOUGHT IT WAS REAL, BUT NOPE, IT WAS ALL AN MMORPG/VIDEOGAME!It'd be like if Warcraft 1,2,3 happened and then when WoW finishes up, all the characters find out their struggles were meaningless because they were just entertainment for US...then we shut the game off.
>>738002034And it died just SLIGHTLY after it's 1 year anniversary and I will never stop being pissed off.
>>738002107Anon, you're still saving the world, just in a video game. It's real, in a video game. Since when were video games not real things?You are failing to justify your position by repeating it with caps lock.
>>738001954You're still not gonna address the fact that you argued about "E33" and "painting" for hours only to then inform us that you haven't played it? We're just gonna skip right past that and never address it? >The TVTropes wiki explicitly calls it a variant. Please, you stupid mother fucker, just read the god damn webpage I keep linking. Don't scroll to the bottom and then pick a DIFFERENT page and then ask me to explain that one. Just read what is on the fucking page, you god damn moron. Holy fuck. You have got to be trolling me, you cannot actually be this stupid. >Your continued assertion is now fundamentally illogical and unprovable, and if you continue to just say it's so, you will know yourself to be a liar.Wait, so you hounded me about E33 for hours, only to reveal that you haven't played E33, then you didn't read the tropes webpage I linked either, all you did was scroll to the bottom and then ask me to explain a completely different trope to you, and the entire reasoning behind this is that you wanted to "win" the argument on the technicality that the webpage that I linked to you listed "it was all a dream" as being a variant of *A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TROPE*?I cannot believe that you're a real human being. And you still wont even read the webpage that I actually linked. Unbelievable. >It does notSO3 and E33 have the exact same twist, anon. I can't believe you spent hours doing this.
>>738002034Oh really? Wasnt that some mobile slop? What did it say about the real world?
>>738002184>You're still not gonna address the fact that you argued about "E33" and "painting" for hours only to then inform us that you haven't played it? We're just gonna skip right past that and never address it? Yes, because I don't know a damn thing about E33 apart from what's already been posted. I was setting you up to change the subject back because you had quit the reply chain, see?>Don't scroll to the bottom and then pick a DIFFERENT page and then ask me to explain that one. Just read what is on the fucking pageI will.Here's the relevant word.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>VariantOne cannot be a variant of something else without being inexorably and irreversibly related to that something else.Stop pretending it's not necessitated, and especially stop insisting it's "completely different". Variants can't be completely different, else they wouldn't be variants.>SO3 and E33 have the exact same twist, anon.If that's the case then the paintings must be substantive and real in every meaningful way as well. I don't know if that's the case, because I've never played E33. But you seem insistent on the converse, so I was entertaining you for the converse.
>>738002280It called the 4D world a higher realm of strange gods that constructed this world. It doesn't call it "real", because 4D isn't more real than 3D in any meaningful way.
>>738002107They go leaps and bounds to tell you that you still matter even though you're data. Your brain in the real world is just chemicals firing off because of electrical impulses. A brain being made of 1s and 0s is from the sci-fi perspective of SO3's world is no different. They even blatantly went out of their way to do a literal "I think therefore I am" thing with Fayt waking up after it was attempted to hit a "hard reset" on their universe.
>>738002184>SO3 and E33 have the exact same twist, anon. I can't believe you spent hours doing this.
>>738002302>Yes, because I don't know a damn thing about E33 apart from what's already been posted. I was setting you up to change the subject back because you had quit the reply chain, see?Anon, all you did is make yourself look retarded. This is what you've done:>argue FOR HOURS about E33>reveal that you haven't played E33>attempt an extremely lame "gotcha" by saying "I was actually talking about SO3" in a sentence where *I* specifically said "E33", and (You) specifically said "painting">you get linked the trope page several times, but you still haven't read it>you scroll to the bottom and pick a completely different trope and ask me to explain the different trope>now your entire argument hinges on a different trope than the one I linked and you are trying to "win" solely on a technicality, after losing for several hoursYou're just a schizo.
>>737997308Nope you didn't understand the game for all your posturing
>>737987515meanwhile, people have been sucking off greek mythology for centuries. its really not that different.
That witch stuck inside a painting wot she thinks is real? I did that.
Today I learned that an anon will argue for literal hours about the story of a video game he has never played.
>>737987515That's literally the point. Does this journey still matter once you find out none of it's real. They pull away the curtain and ask you the player the same question: do these video game characters matter? It's barely a twist, it's clearly where they were headed all along.
>>738002418See, I've eviscerated your arguments twice now, so you go to pointless insults.I have now thoroughly proven that SO3 is a logically consistent game whose twist is not damaging to the story or setting unless you incorrectly perceive it as meta, and the Eternal Sphere cannot be meaningfully equated to a dream and still have the "all just a dream trope" apply in any relevant way.If E33 has "the exact same twist", the portraits must be equivalently substantial and the events within them equivalently continuous and kinetic, but I don't actually know if that's the case.We are done here. I take my leave.Till the end of time, I love Maria.
>>738002323Nevermind, i asked chatgpt.>Star Ocean: Anamnesis lightly references the famous twist from Star Ocean: Till the End of Time—that the universe is a simulation—mainly through its premise of characters from different times and worlds being pulled together into a single, unstable space, which subtly echoes the idea of a constructed reality; however, it never directly revisits or explains the twist in depth, instead treating it as background context and focusing more on crossover interactions and fanservice than on the existential implications.Lame.
>>738002541>See, I've eviscerated your arguments twice now, so you go to pointless insults.You haven't done anything except prove that you're a complete fucking schizo who argues for hours about a game he hasn't played, refuses to read the trope he is arguing about, and then gets fixated on a completely different trope and argues against the different trope (for a different game) and then declares himself the victor. You're just a schizo. You're nothing more than a schizo.
>>738002541E33 doesn't have a twist. It's obvious THE ENTIRE TIME that not everything is as it seems and we are waiting for the reveal.
>>738002635I'm more schizo than you are autistic.
>>738002697>I'm more schizo than you are autistic.
>>738002541>I have now thoroughly proven that SO3 is a logically consistent game whose twist is not damaging to the story or setting unless you incorrectly perceive it as meta, and the Eternal Sphere cannot be meaningfully equated to a dream and still have the "all just a dream trope" apply in any relevant way.
>>738002753>>738000675
>>738002697
If we live in a simulation then it's our duty to break free of the simulation and kill the ones running the simulator.
Half of the reason this game causes so much seethe is because it makes 85 IQ subhumans realize they can't engage with any philosophical question at all.
The part of this interaction that blows my mind the most is that even though he defended E33 for 4 hours, he's actually a Star Ocean schizo and allegedly hasn't even played E33.
>>738002880The only way to gut someone who refuses to actually comprehend is to go even crazier than they are.
Did people really get confused from the E33 story? It felt pretty straightforward to me. Maelle is always saying "let's spill some ink" during combat. There is no "twist ending" it's all advertised very clearly. I guess this is what happens when you spend more hours on youtube videos than time played
>>738002880>says the schizo that has been samefagging his point multiple times for the past 8 hours
>>737995774>Some or dogshit though, like Xenoblade Chronicles *3* which is only liked because of the character designs.Fixed.
>>738002938This is another thing that E33 cultists get hung up on. They get triggered by the word "twist" but are more neutral to the term "reveal".
>>738002867A game about dealing with loss critiqued by a bunch of lonely basement dwellers. What else could we expect? It's pretty sad actually. I would personally keep it to myself.
>>738003010Yeah twist/reveal does imply some kind of vapid, passenger energy. I was fully engaged with the story and had many theories throughout. Would you call a mystery story a twist? Like it is just incorrect unless you're an idiot.
>>738003097I just call things what they are. Life is easier that way.
>>737999471Says gnostic despite that word meaning nothing.
>>738003159Your gnosis is low, anon.
>>738003152We agree then that you're an idiot. That's fine.
I’ve been playing star ocean 3 having a blast and questing and fight an. But holy shit some of the difficulty spikes ram it up your ass
>>738003223I dont know why pagan larping is on the rise but it makes you look like a child.
>>738003312An idiot is a person who understands what someone means but who instead feels a greater need to act pretentious or pseudointellectual for the sole purpose of impeding conversation, rather than simply understanding what he already understands.
>>738003320I don't know why religious larping is on the rise but it makes you look like a child.
>>738003406idiot/ĭd′ē-ət/nounA human being destitute of the ordinary intellectual powers, whether congenital, developmental, or accidental; commonly, a person without understanding from birth; a natural fool. In a former classification of mentally retarded people, idiot designated a person whose adult level of intelligence was equivalent to that of a three-year old or younger; this corresponded with an I.Q. level of approximately 25 or less.
>>738003429Says the pagan
>>738003504I pray for your own sake that you're underage.
>>738002594>I asked AI and got a wrong answerThis has never happened before.
>>738003318the crafting system is busted if your RNG is good. I put a weapon on Fayt a few hours after discovering the crafting system that was better than everything past the last boss up to like the first boss of the post-game dungeon. I got good weapons for my other cast members later on. I'd say experiment more with that.
>>738003614No, I'm just larping. Gnosticism isn't real, it's a fun story.
>>738003743Unfortunately that anon won't admit such things about his own fairy tales
>>738003639So the real world is a big plot point of star ocean anamnesis then?
>>737987054top is trying too hard, overexplaining
>>738001894The main problem is that you are told this. You are not shown this. You only ever encounter people with cartoonish Fates, you never interact with Lumiere in a practictical way, you don't even return until it's time for the reveal where it's not real. The game needed more interactions with human society outside of funny audio tracks of how previous expeditions all get bodied
>it's a simulation!>ok but the video game I, the player, is playing is also a simulation. Sentience has no actual meaning so the video game characters are as real to me as the Eternal Sphere is within Star Ocean.>playing a simluation of a simulation>2deep4meStaar Ocean 3 was lacking cute elf girls
>>737987054Does Star Ocean have a song as good as Renoir2? That's literally all it takes
>>738004320>Sentience has no actual meaning>the video game characters are as real to me as the Eternal Sphere is within Star Ocean.implyingthe hardware you're playing Star Ocean on isn't strong enough to replicate sentience and free will like the hardware the Eternal Sphere runs on
Why is e33 being so shilled so hard? This is a bizarre amount of unnatural shilling even for a game.
>>738004220I felt like the prologue had enough NPCs, I can see the benefit of adding a hub but it would have to replace the gestral village or add them in there. Traveling back to lumiere doesnt make much sense story wise even if they still had a boat. Gestrals and grandis are also thinking and feeling beings even though the gestrals are a lot more simple.
>>738004491/v/ duality is so fucking annoying. You've got people that will claim a game has flopped if they see no threads for it and then fags like you that don't understand that people still want to talk about a game.
>game has a twist that the characters and world they inhabit are not real>"yes that does mean they aren't real and i wont be playing"
>>738004608What the fuck are you going on about? It's clear the discourse around the game is NOT organic at all. Like most of the threads here positive or negative on e33 seem very forced.
>>738004491They're just like that
>>738004491chink and jeet farm allied against Japanese made media, someone link the webm of the huge walls of smart phones connected through AI to post and spam shit on 4chan as proof.
>>737987054star ocean 3 is kino, I'm playing it right now
>>738004491>Why is e33 being so shilled so hard?Daddy's venture capitalist firm, the French government, China, and the freemasons all want this game to succeed, and the culture war retards like participating in "the conversation" surrounding it.
>>738004440>the hardware you're playing Star Ocean on isn't strong enough to replicate sentience and free will like the hardware the Eternal Sphere runs onYou assume free will exists, which hasn't really been confirmed. The video game hardware could be as deterministic as real life. "Sentience" is also a made up term to comfort ourselves with.
SO3's dialogue is actually quite decent. I was surprised at how much better it is than modern games.
>>738004993are you going to show some?
>>738004972>Mixing up random unrelated concepts and buzzwordsIncredibly low IQ anon
>>738005048Yeah I should have just posted softcore porn so you'd be able to follow
>>738004972free will only exists if you are willing to zoom in far enough, regardless of if we are in a simulation or not. Every factor of your life, from the genetic makeup of your cells to the korean baddie that could walk through your door in the next five seconds, was all predetermined at the quark level trillions of years ago when this universe was first created.. The problem is we don't have the computing power (or comprehensive enough data) to interpret the data needed to truly predict anything. It's like throwing multiple rocks into a still pond, zooming in on one tiny aspect of the pond, and saying "look, everything is random given this one tiny area.'When people say free will them mean you and I as humans in human society express what is effectively choice, because no actors in our society can use that primordial data. If God exists and has that data and can compute it, then yes free will absolutely does not exist. Free will for God himself also doesn't exist in that case. The point is who gives a fuck if he doesn't show himself and if humans aren't impacted by it.
>>738005045I don't have that many screenshots
>>737987054Im still mad SO3 has the most kino opening of any vidya and we never got to visit any of those places. Misleading piece of shit.
>>738004972I am not talking free will in a "free will vs. determinism" kind of way, more like free will in the independent thought kind of way. Which yes, if you prescribe to determinism/superdeterminism (same thing) isn't "real", but what I mean is that ES beings have as much independent thought as real beings and haters of SO3's twist either disagree or don't understand this.
>>738005424That makes it all the more kino, because they built out so much lore and backstory for users to never see. Similar to a lot of Xenogears
>>738005245>free will only exists if you are willing to zoom in far enoughBut the rest of your post suggests it doesn't? Can you call it free will if you can indeed perfectly predict the future, regardless of our current inability (?) to do so? It doesn't change much, we still call it a choice.
>>737987054The real world isn't based out of "our" "real" world. It's sci fi stuff, and badly done, in my opinionBoth the painted world and real life in E33 are very similar so the transition makes senseThe simulated world in SO3 is very good and intriguing. You go to planets that vary wildly in technology, but never to the extent that is shown when you go to the real worldThey have one thing in common though. They take a dump on everything that happened during the first part of the game and that's a shame
>>738005424star ocean 4 actually has a fucking KINO opening toohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKsi4_kMQ-c
>>738005424I remember getting immersed as fuck reading the glossary. They give you background info for planets, factions, and those mysterious "out of place objects" like some monolith in a planet that's going through their middle ages or something like thatThen it's all a big nope. All a video game. And the aesthetics of the 'real' world are atrocious too. Too much whiplash for me
>>738005568I'm saying that colloquially what is called free will is an issue of perspective. We exist in a society where no actor has access to that information, so effectively free will exists. If you zoom out to God's level, then it does not exist, but that is useless other than for philosophical discussions because no one can access that power.
>>737988446This.
OK but when are they doing a remake of SO3? It needs it the most since 2's graphics were still charming before the remake.
>>737994220>Maelle's ending>moral>basically I Have No Mouth and I Must ScreamMotherfucker, did you even play the game?
>>738005725Just wait until you pick up war and peace and remember that Andrei Bolkonsky wasn't a real human being, hopefully it doesn't ruin russian literature for you
>>737987054Look at the graphics of the game on top, would you take anything seriously?
They both fucking suck, stop kidding yourself
>>738005869well it's not unity slop so i'm honestly more inclined to take it seriously
>>738005825The difference is that other fictional stories dont take place inside a video game where they are video game characters in an MMORPG.
>>738005245This bitch looks fucking PISSED
>>738002531>the point is its shitevery fucking time with you people
>>738005736>what is called free will is an issue of perspectiveIs it? Doesn't the answer depend on the underlying truth and not "whether we have discovered it yet"? Calling it one way or the other when there's no supporting evidence of either seems premature.
>>738005951Why does that make them lesser, exactly?
>>738005951>dont take place inside a video game where they are video game characters in an MMORPG.Well one you can't prove that, but yes other stories don't engage directly with the possibility
>>737987054Because the people who praise e33 are midwits
>>737987054One is full of jrpg anime tropes, bad art direction, cartoony combat, stale writing, and terrible pacing. The other is star ocean 3 (same things but worse).
>>738005803This guy got spooked from a piano sting LOL
>>738006002that's the appeal anon>>738006029It's an extrapolation of my understanding of cause and effect, I would be interested to hear if you can think of a different way that things would be structured? Even if there is randomness as the subatomic level, the outcome of that randomness is still predetermined I would say
>>738006086>Well one you can't prove thatYeah you can, its not part of the story
>>738005424Always been kind of the story of SO games. Show you how big the world is, places in you in a backwater setting.
>>738006089Or, god forbid, French.
>>738006294Animal Farm is a book about pigs and farm animals walking around in the mud
>>738006439Never read it
>>737987054The twist itself is perfectly fine, this issue is the hack writers never figured out how to move the plot along afterwards so they kept shitting out prequels
>>738006529It is a book about farm animals on a surface level but a critique of communism/capitalism/autocracy at its core, but it is never really explicitly stated. My point is with how common allegory and simile are in literature/games it seems difficult to say its not a part of the story just because it isn't stated. It's a bit of an autistic argument because it doesn't really end anywhere, but when we are talking about shit like reality being an MMO I think it is accurate. At the end of the day we have to abstract that possibility away to enjoy anything, unless your concern is the direct engagement with it or you think the writing is bad in of itself
>>737988765most of the other foids have relatively normal eyes
>>738005775They probably ruin it with photorealistic dogass
>>737988646Sophia is like 1 of only 4 party members worth using so you're bricking yourself by not leveling her up. It's laughably easy to catch underleveled members up anyways.
>>738006792I have no idea what you trying to say and what that has to do with this game anon
>>738005775Never. Just like FF8, the black sheeps of the series.
>>7380069875 is the black sheep of Star Ocean though
>>738006921You said other games don't take place inside an mmo so it's not an issue for you, but that can't be proved just because the narrative doesn't directly engaged with the concept, because by way of literary interpretation it could in fact be true (they don't need to directly say it). It's the same in the real world, while it could be true we still need to live our lives regardless. So I am wondering if your issue isn't really with the idea itself but with the direct mention/engagement of it.
>>738006987The black sheep of Final Fantasy is II. It's only ever remembered because it has to be, but it's always looked down on as the one that did things different (and more importantly, did them wrong).
lol tranime contrarians are so funny>WHAT ABOUT THIS DOGSHIT GAME HUH, WHY YOU PLAY POPULAR WESTERN GAME AND NOT THIS NO NAME GAME THAT ISNT GOOD????
>>737987054Because anime is for dorks
>>738006010My point was: if you thought the plot was shitty and/or relied on a "twist" then you likely just zoomed on through the game with that empty skull of yours. The game is not trying to be deep or mysterious or trick you in any way. It is very straightforward from the onset. Sorry it went over your head, I guess? But no need to get mad.
>>738006315I don't understand the mentality. >Let's make a unique sci-fi RPG>But the story takes place in bum fuck nowhere and everyone acts like a medieval sword and and sorcery fantasy story but deep down we know it's about sci-fi society ;^)The captain kirk stuck on a planet schtick would work for a single game not a franchise.
>>738007147>but that can't be proved just because the narrative doesn't directly engaged with the concept, because by way of literary interpretation it could in fact be true (they don't need to directly say it)Its a fictional story written by a person. Unless they explicitly say in the story that everything in their world is not real and the characters are part of an MMORPG, theres no reason to assume thats the case.
>>738007332you would love book of the new sun, anon
>>738003619Is this what you always say when you get BTFO?
>>738001894It's baffling. They spend dozens of hours getting to know the characters, the previous expeditions, they hear Painted Alicia's poem, see Painted Renoir's struggle, real Renoir's regret and guilt. And the second they hear that the people of Lumiere are painted, they turn against them and side with the selfish gods.>And then the Lord God formed man from the clay of the earth, and he breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
>>738007332Because it's kino
>>738002018Did you stop playing the games after 3? They put a 4D character in all the games. They even retconed one in.
>>738007379That's what I say when someone is acting like they are underage.
>>738007574You literally described why anon. You spend dozens of hours hearing about these shallow cardboard cutouts only to find out they were in fact cardboard cutouts.
>>738007620Welch is such a fucking baddie
>>738007574It's less siding with selfish gods, but questioning just how "real" any of the people of Lumiere are, or any of the beings in the painting are when the gestrals and their constant cycle of death and rebirth. Monoco even mentions straight up that yes, they could bring back Noco, but it wouldn't really be "their" Noco. So that begs the question with Maelle's ending if any of the people we see there really are the "true" versions of the characters we spent the game getting to know....or just another copy of them. Similar, but not really. Brings up questions of the self, and waht it means to be when you could just be a replica of a replica of the original.
>>737987212E33 is amazing when it comes to word economy. Feels like every line of text is there because it needs to be. In a regular game you could easily trim half of the text and not lose anything.
>>738007574I love how there is no right ending though. I feel like the game leads you to think this: that the painted people's lives are worth saving. But then with that comes Maelle/Aline's horrible coping mechanisms for grief. Do we save the "fake" people and allow the "real" people to self harm? Or the opposite? It's so much deeper than just "do fake people matter?" I love it. Also seems very clear that the painted people might be a metaphor all video game words and Maelle might just be us? Idk again I love that there is so much depth to it.
>>738007674It's her series now, chuds.
>>737992670>be trust fund baby>can put any story into your game>but you're a fucking retard who doesn't READ so your best effort is ripping off of DaS 3's DLC which was a mundane "simulation" anywayI can only imagine it's all the other middle-of-the-bell-curve normalfags constantly awed by such a shit unimaginative reveal.
>>737987515>And how Maelle was the only one who learned true empathy for the people thereWeird to me how many people overlook that Renoir obviously feels bad for the painted people - which also makes him a more interesting/deeper character.>in favor of saying that they're actually a metaphor for escapism and should probably just die for the Dessendre's last second character development.That's something you made up for yourself and you did not make it up because you're smart or understood what was happening.
>>738007648Damn. Just plug your ears and say "nuh uh" and insult them? What's the point in replying at all if all you can do is make yourself look like a fool?
>>738002531>find out none of it's real.It's as real as you are real in the eyes of a religious person, you dumbo.
>>738007759I get the questioning, the Dessendres are not united in whether they consider them sentient. Renoir and Verso do, Clea doesn't. But I'm talking about blind opposition to the very idea, they treat "the people of Lumiere are not real/sentient" as an axiom and analyse the rest of the story based on that.
>>738007890Do you even remember what you're upset about, underage anon? I bet you don't.
>>738007857This is often what people who haven't played the game like to think. That there's so big twist in the middle of the game that really rocked people's minds. That's not the case at all. The entire narrative is very straightforward. We are questioning whether or not any of it is real from the prologue. The painting motifs are there from the very beginning.
>>738007945Well it doesn't help that the game essentially dumps that whole bit in favor of the family drama no matter what ending you pick, it was still the final driving motive for the confrontation between Maelle and Verso. Verso demanding she leave the painting and accept the real world and all it's ills, and Maelle wanting to stay in Neverland and continue with the fantasy. It's a family of fuckups who seemingly refuse to deal with their trauma in the worst way possible.
>>738007970Yeah I called you an idiot because you thought the story was complicated and over your head and I assured you only a stupid person would think that way. We've been arguing whether that makes you stupid ever since.
>>738008152>Yeah I called you an idiot because you thought the story was complicated and over your headOkay, so you don't remember why you're upset.
>>738007763That's what great writers do, they take what they wrote and compress it. Even the so-called maximalist authors compress, a lot. They ensure every line is full of meaning and multiple interpretations. Their sprawling sentences would expand to multiple pages in the hands of less skilled authors.
>released over a year ago>still making people seetheBased
>>738007929Religious people read a novel and thought it to be truth and went on to make that their whole identity. The painters literally created the world. I don't understand your analogy?
Great art is both a mask and a mirror.
>>738008121That's because neither Verso nor Alicia care about the lives of painted people, not the way Maelle and Gustave did, and Act 3 is narrated from their point of view.
>>738008230I still think it's funny that she's a lesbian.
>>738008210Why would I be upset? I made 1 point that I still stand by. You've been arguing with me for over an hour and have yet to engage with it in any reasonable capacity. I think you are a fool. I look down on you. I've been laughing at you the whole time.
>>738008345I like her voice, but she's damn ugly. Just like most VAs.
>>738007841CUTE
>>738008352Anon, get down! He's going to continue making accusations about your emotional state!!
>people in the painting cant be real!!!>they exist in a universe where magic is literally real????
>>738008352see >>738003010This is what you're upset about. I know you forgot, that's why I'm linking you to it. You're underage and you just know that you're angry, you can't remember why, so you made up reasons.
>>738008403lol told you so
>>738002531>They pull away the curtain and ask you the player the same question: do these video game characters matter?That's a stupid fucking moral "conundrum" because the answer is obvious. They're sentient living beings created by what are essentially gods. All of the game's drama falls apart for me when it presented such a stupid, obvious decision that it clearly expected me to agonize over. A cheap 80s sci-fi TV show did this exact same story better several times in under an hour. The entire game hinges on you caring about frognigger family drama and literally nothing else.
>>738008525Holy shit I forgot we can upload mp4s now.
>>738008432How can I be mad about a point you can't seem to back up? You think you just say the words and that' it? I ought to be convinced now? Sorry buddy you got BTFO. Write about it in your blog.
how did Guillaume Broche buckbreak so many individuals?
>>738008573wtf is an mp4, I'm still trying to wrap my mind around what a webm is
>>737987515As much as I love this game I do agree. I think they said they did the re-write for the twist relatively late into development and that'd make sense for how hard they shove off Lune and Sciel when their drama of discovering the truth would have made the message of the end a lot more impactful than just the scene at the end.I want to know how the original ending was supposed to go, just kill the paintress -> happy ending? I think I still would have appreciated the game if that were the case.
>>738008525The "god" aka verso's soul claims to be tired. It's clear the one perpetuating the world's existence wants it to end. Maelle selfishly wants to prevent it's end because she's using this entire universe as a coping mechanism. You say the people are real so we should save them. Well what of Maelle's? What of this "god" decided her grief was the most important thing? That she could literally end the cycle of life and death and use these "real" people as play things. That's the dilemma at the end. That's what the final choice is about.
>>738007620For me, its Grape Welch
>>738008601Once again, I really do hope you're underage, for your own sake. You can't seem to have or follow a conversation. You only know how to be upset and make up things that didn't happen.
>>737987054E33 had the force of being an industry plant behind it
>>738008771Bud, you still have no reply for >>738003097Stay mad.
>>738008878I already replied to it >>738003152>I just call things what they are. Life is easier that way.
>>738007147>You said other games don't take place inside an mmo so it's not an issue for you, but that can't be proved just because the narrative doesn't directly engaged with the concept, because by way of literary interpretation it could in fact be true (they don't need to directly say it)
>>738008731That's not a valid moral dilemma in any rational person's mind. It isn't Verso's or Maelle's decision to make.
>>738008915This is what I would later refer to as you plugging your ears and saying, "nuh uh"
>>738008969If you care about the people then you should vote to end the painting. The people are very real and shouldn't be reduced to play things for the gods.
>>737987515>And how Maelle was the only one who learned true empathy for the people thereIs that why she forces them to become little puppets for her hollow escapist fantasy?
>>738008732>>738007620>>738007841I don't like the twist, but I love Welch so I guess that makes up for it.
>>738008969This also ties into another flaw of the game where Sciel, Lune and everybody else are just forgotten in Act 3. They become window dressing and are stripped of any agency because they don't matter any more. Ha ha we already did our big reveal so now you can just concentrate on the only characters that I, the writer, actually give a shit about. In before how that's some like, woah brah, deep meta commentary on the whole Painters vs Writers thing, maaaaaaaan.
>>738009027I'm just telling you some people aren't overly concerned with appearing pseudointellectual like you are, so they just understand words exactly like you understand words, and they continue with the conversation without needlessly impeding it. You are overly concerned with appearing pseudointellectual, so you needlessly impede conversation over words and phrases you understand, just because you want to appear a little bit smarter than you are (you're still not smart though)This is why I hope you're underage. I can easily picture a 14 year old kid do this. I cannot picture a 21 year old adult do this.
>>738008732didn't you find her with that cat in the microbikini?
>>738009210I feel like the realistic thing would just be for them to leave the party, and nobody wants that. Their silence after being killed/resurrected/told they were never real to begin with seems apporiate to me. They have had 0 seconds to even process their grief. Maelle has been processing hers for nearly a decade it seems.
>>737987054It's so funny knowing you have an audience so dumb you have to explicitly write that line in the bottom pic. It's that fucking Futurama joke with the robot devil.
>>738009210See >>738008328
>>738009324You are doing a lot of projecting based off the single take that, "mystery novels don't have twists". You aren't going to get under my skin just by yapping into a mirror. I still think you're a pathetic idiot. Either debate me or respectfully disagree but don't do this shit.
>>738009426>It's so funny knowing you have an audience so dumb you have to explicitly write that line in the bottom picAnd yet the critics STILL misinterpret the ending, as seen in this thread.
>>738008969I just want to point out, Spock's needs of the many quote is literally a set up for his friends to race across the galaxy to bring him back and kirk throwing it back at him that sometimes the needs of the one do outweigh the needs of the many, when the one is the many's F-F-Friend
>>738009539>You are doing a lot of projecting based off the single take that, "mystery novels don't have twists".I never replied to this. >You aren't going to get under my skin just by yapping into a mirror. I'm just calling it how I see it. You are behaving like someone who is underage. >I still think you're a pathetic idiot. You don't even know why you're angry nor have you attempted to understand what I have said, so I'm not concerned with what you think of me, I'm really trying to help you see the error of your ways so you don't become insufferable later in life as the result of your continued insistence that you appear smarter than you are, when no one likes people like that. >Either debate me or respectfully disagree but don't do this shit.What do you even think I'm "doing"? I'm not trying to debate or even necessarily disagree with you. I only made the comment that E33 cultists seem to be triggered by the word "twist" and that they are more neutral to the word "reveal". These are colloquially used interchangeably, but then you started talking about your own thing and not reading anything. I really don't know where you even think the conversation is, you got lost in the sauce somewhere very early on.
For the anons throwing around the word pseudointellectual, you're in a 4chan thread on /v/ at 10am EST on a Friday morning discussing if reality is a simulation or not, while some autist is posting about russian literature and another is posting girls in booted heels while a third is posting images of Welch. Who gives a fuck.
>>737987515honestly this game teaches you very early on that everyone inside that canvas was a lost cause and you shouldn't feel any sympathy for them. They lived hollow lives, die meaningless death and stay unremembered as the isolated memory they are. This game's biggest lesson is to stop being immersed into worlds that do not matter in an attempt to mask the loneliness and self-imposed isolation by hiding in literal fiction. You are maidenless, go touch some grass.Star Ocean on the other hand just suffers from Star Ocean writing. Great premise, passable progression but horrible end.
I think this thread is a great reminder of just how retarded /v/ermin are. Pic related was technically commissioned as Roman propaganda, but it supports both Roman and anti-Roman readings because Vergil is a great artist who knows the importance of nuance and subtlety. And then comes in your average /v/aggot, claims it's nothing but propaganda and that it's not worth reading. That's how I see those claiming that the people of Lumiere are not real and that there's zero nuance or doubt about that "fact".
>>737987054>top>Exposition diarrhea of words>bottom>Says what needs to be said in a few words.>This is why JRPG writing is laughably bad.
>>737988646>Gets the worse love ending in the whole game
Average Russian novel:>I believe like a child that suffering will be healed and made up for, that all the humiliating absurdity of human contradictions will vanish like a pitiful mirage, like the despicable fabrication of the impotent and infinitely small Euclidean mind of man, that in the world's finale, at the moment of eternal harmony, something so precious will come to pass that it will suffice for all hearts, for the comforting of all resentments, for the atonement of all the crimes of humanity, for all the blood that they've shed; that it will make it not only possible to forgive but to justify all that has happened.Average American novel:>Now her intestines whine softly, and she feels shit begin to slide down and out. He kneels with his arms up holding the rich cape. A dark turd appears out the crevice, out of the absolute darkness between her white buttocks. He spreads his knees, awkwardly, until he can feel the leather of her boots. He leans forward to surround the hot turd with his lips, sucking on it tenderly, licking along its lower side . . . he is thinking, he’s sorry, he can’t help it, thinking of a Negro’s penis, yes he knows it abrogates part of the conditions set, but it will not be denied, the image of a brute African who will make him behave. . . . The stink of shit floods his nose, gathering him, surrounding. It is the smell of Passchendaele, of the Salient. Mixed with the mud, and the putrefaction of corpses, it was the sovereign smell of their first meeting, and her emblem. The turd slides into his mouth, down to his gullet. He gags, but bravely clamps his teeth shut. Bread that would only have floated in porcelain waters somewhere, unseen, untasted—risen now and baked in the bitter intestinal Oven to bread we know, bread that’s light as domestic comfort, secret as death in bed . . . Spasms in his throat continue. The pain is terrible. With his tongue he mashes shit against the roof of his mouth and begins to chew, thickly now...
>>738010058At the end of day stories are a vehicle for thought. If you have zero ability to think, it doesn't matter how great or shit the author is. Likewise, if you're smart you can read nuance in hentai or FOTM shit
>>738010136thanks /v/gpt
>>737994551Yes, obviously. No one actually plays that game either.
>>738009832>t.seething pseud
>>737993103>E33 showed up and broke anons brains because it proved that normies are fine with JRPGs but don't like traditional JRPG styles and tropes.inaccurateThe correct take is: Normies would actually love everything in JRPGs but are racists who hate anything foreign
>>738009832>discussing if reality is a simulation or notNot me. >while some autist is posting about russian literature Not me. >and another is posting girls in booted heels Not me. >while a third is posting images of WelchAlso not me.
>>737988646Could be worse. Everyone forgets the bonus character they threw in that has no lines, is never relevant to the story, and is the worst fighter in the game. Should have been Clair damn it.
>>738010448ok anon, but you wish this was you
>>738010620Nope.
>>737988557I forget the brown girls name but she is best girl.
>>738010789Peppita
>>738010827Thanks Anon, been decades since I've played this. Childhood crushes don't leave though.
>>738010336Normalfags LOVE Persona though. And that one's filled to the brim with anime tropes.If anything, it's weebs who are racist by refusing to accept anything without anime artstyle. Or refusing to accept that certain western games are just as good as Japanese ones.
>>737987212>Exposition diarrhea of wordsSO3's biggest problem with this twist was arguably that it didn't have enough exposition of the "real" world. That's despite multiple field areas and a large dungeon taking place in it, SO3 just repeats the same points over and over painting it as a post-scarcity utopia and you learn very little else about it.
>>737987054SO3 has great gameplay though, E33 is mid and runs on vibes
>>738009832>while some autist is posting about russian literature Definitely a schizo>and another is posting girls in booted heelsI think thats the same person?>while a third is posting images of Welch.Nah thats just a weeb.Also you forgot the the anons randomly writing essays on free will and determinism (who are definitely autistic).
>>737995774JRPGS have great themes, world building. and plots, but they don't have good prose nor dialogue for english speakers. A lot of it is dry or lost in translation.
>>738007332JRPG devs are incapable of leaving their swords and sorcery comfort zone. You've got people that probably were commissioned to make a sci-fi game that didn't want anything to do with a non-fantasy setting because that's the type of shit they made before Star Ocean.
>>738010914>SO3 just repeats the same points over and over painting it as a post-scarcity utopia and you learn very little else about it.Thats just most JRPGs though. They are all very shallow and have little substance. Like theres an idea somewhere there but it never gets developed.
>>737995947You got absolutely curb stomped, anon.
>>737989169Why can't SO just be anime Star Trek instead of veering into universe-spanning structural shit?
>>738011074scifi is profoundly difficult to write without it being slop.>WHY ISN'T AI RULING EVERYTHING?>What does one character matter when there are multiple worlds 10x the size of modern day Earth?>What does one character matter when weapons are so powerful that entire planets can be destroyed at the push of a button? Also>How do relationships change when everything can be simulated? Why would traditional relationships persist just like how they do today if any guy can go fuck 10/10s all night in his mind? >in a post scarcity world, what does human society truly look like? games aren't interested in discussing these topics so it's tough for them to do anything in a scifi narrative.
>>737987054I still haven't beaten Star Ocean 3. Have restarted it several times throughout the years but always end up dropping it around the time of the "we are inside a game" plot twist. Suddenly all the characters and world become so boring and uninteresting.
>>737989169>Almost every Star Ocean game is about conspiracy theories.This is absolutely not true at all. Biggest cope ive ever read.
>>738011306>always end up dropping it around the time of the "we are inside a game" plot twist.you do realize you have like one more dungeon after that point right? It is at the very end of a 70 hour jrpg
>>738011123Nigger you played like 3 JRPGs in your life.
>>738010084>E33 is amazing when it comes to word economy. Feels like every line of text is there because it needs to be. In a regular game you could easily trim half of the text and not lose anything.
>>738011412why did AI just generate wings of redemption
>>738011306I would have finished it, but it's the worst part of the game anyway. Feels very much like they ran out of budget which is pretty funny since it should be the most ambitious part.
>>738011160The guy defending E33 later admits that he has never played E33 and doesn't even know what the dream trope is.
>>738011074No? That's western RPGs. JRPGs have really diverse settings.
>>737987054The turn based combat for sure.
>>738011412>That's what great writers do, they take what they wrote and compress it. Even the so-called maximalist authors compress, a lot. They ensure every line is full of meaning and multiple interpretations. Their sprawling sentences would expand to multiple pages in the hands of less skilled authors.
>>738011465>the guyThere are multiple defenders, anon. At least the Star Ocean fag and the /lit/fag.
>>738010084>>738011412>>738011521KEK
>>738011534The guy defending E33 in the argument you're currently pretending to read. He later admits that he spent hours defending E33 despite not playing it and that he doesn't even know what the dream trope even is.
>>738011465You're still mad about getting baited.
>>738011521Why did you post the fatlus guy next to that image? A fatlusfag would never say that.
>>738011612Unimaginable cope.
>>738010084perfect depiction of an average e33 fan
>>738011630I didn't get "baited", some schizo defended E33 for several hours and then said "psyche! I'm talking about SO3!" despite both of us saying "E33" and "painting" every post, and then he admitted he hasn't even played E33 and that he doesn't even know about the trope that he's defending E33 against.
>>738010084>>738011521>>738011412>>738011594>malding midwit samefag
>>738011468Repost in a resolution that is readable
>>738011679It's real, bro: >>738001694>I have never even played E33, nor do I care about it.He spent hours defending E33 and then revealed he hasn't even played it.
>>738001656>e33>beautifulthe enitre game looks like it's covered in shit and all the characters look like really ugly hobos. Every average jrpg looks million times more visually appealing
>>738002531>>738010019But the people of the canvas are blatantly shown to be sentient. If the whole game was just Maelle hanging out with the Gestrals who never grow or change as people, then you'd realize that she was just a kid stuck in a world playing with her toys. But the people of Lumiere live full-fledged lives, and struggle for a better future. We start the game from Gustave's perspective and experience his and Sophie's tragedy. So to say they don't matter just kind of shits on the rest of the story.
>>738011727There were several posters, actually. There was only about three posts mentioning the paintings in this "several hours" and "every post" you speak of.
>>738011727Nah hes right, youre seething incredibly hard right now that you got baited
>>738011848I'm sure there are multiple people here defending E33. I'm not talking about every person here. I'm talking about the guy who defended E33 for hours despite never playing it.
>>738011798Anon, I came into this thread halfway. Not my fault you can't tell.
>>737987054>why the fuck does her face look like that?>do weebs genuinely think this shit looks good?>the guys at least look relatively normal except for the gay ass hair on the middle one and the weird bralette he's wearing
>>738009075Only that shithead Verso. The game doesn't let us explore the nature of how things are for the others, it just wants you to feel bad that Verso failed in yet another mass murder-suicide for some reason.
>>738011927You really love to repeat yourself about how you're not mad and owned, huh.
>>738011929I'm explaining to you what occurred, because it's obvious that you weren't here. Man, E33fags are so sensitive.
>>738011727>>738011798You are fucking retarded. You were arguing with two different people, one using filename randomiser, defending E33:>>737993851>>737999696And the other one defending SO3 and not using filename randomiser:>>738002541
>>738011775Buy a new pair of glasses
>>738011986Anon, you're hilarious.
>>738010084>>738011412>>738011521>>738011952How did you manage to hack their webcams?
>>738012021>schizo is still being schizoI still can't believe you're even a real person. Permanent virgin energy.
>>738008697I don't think they needed to drop the twist entirely. I just wanted a bittersweet middle-ground that supported both sides of the story instead of burying one for the sake of the other.
>>738011825>Every average jrpg looks million times more visually appealing
>>738012102Yes. All western games are ugly af.
>>738012084I'm insane for Star Ocean anon, it's your fault for making a partial Star Ocean thread.
>>738012186I didn't make this thread.
>>738012165brutal
>>738012215Then having an hours-long tism fit in the (partial) star ocean thread, no big difference there.
>>737993054You have a unique definition of 'getting mad'.
we can all agree that SO3 is goated, right?
>No, you HAVE to hate JRPGs if you like E33>What do you mean the devs made E33 because they liked JRPGs so much?
>>738012320Yeah. Only midwits get mad at it because they think artificial and fake are the same things.
>>738010336>but are racists who hate anything foreignThen why are they playing a game made by the Fr*nch, who are the mortal enemies and diametricly opposite of mainstream normie Anglo culture?
>E33 chads officially won again>weeaboocels on suicide watch
>>737987212>Somehow, Palpatine returnedBrilliant.
You love seeing e33 fags being btfo in every single thread
>>738012270You being entirely unknowledgeable about all subject matter you were speaking about for multiple hours, while adamantly refusing to educate yourself every time you were given a chance, is the recipe for engagement. But it also opened my eyes. Every single person I've ever engaged with on 4chan could have been as willfully ignorant about the things they're talking about as you, and that would explain a lot.
>>738012320Yup.
>>738012435It's funny how your words apply to yourself so completely.By the by, tropes aren't inherently bad things. Even if it were "just a dream" (it still isn't), it doesn't mean it's bad storytelling, only that you don't like it.To use the trope..Tropes Are Tools :)
>>738012435take off your fedora and shave that neckbeard
>>737987054>The french executed perfectly what the japs couldntBased.
>>738012519>all this just for a "no u"Not even in the slightest. You defended a game you haven't played from a trope you never read for several hours.
>>738012629I didn't defend E33 even once, actually. I made some prodding inquiries, which itself were to divert back towards Star Ocean 3, because you ran way from the previous discussion.
>>738012578>have to post a cosplayer because the characters in the game are too uglykek
>>738012629You are a retard conflating several anons into one boogeyman.
>>738012678>>738012102
>>738012348E33 fags are retarded. More news at 11
>>738012672>I didn't defend E33 even once, actually.You did. Including several posts where we both said "E33" or "painting", leaving no ambiguity whatsoever as to what game we were talking about. I think you might actually be the dumbest person I've ever talked to, but it just goes to show that every single time I think "this person is so fucking stupid, they have to be trolling me, they can't be real" the reason I think that is probably because it's a schizo defending a game he hasn't played from a concept he hasn't even attempted to understand, just like (You) did for several hours.
>>738012165Why are Western video game characters so ugly anyway?
>>738012813Nope. You can go back and check, I did mention paintings and E33, but only for guiding the discussion back, as I said.
>>738007886>Weird to me how many people overlook that Renoir obviously feels bad for the painted peopleBecause not much is done with it. He's been genociding Lumiere and tearing apart their families for years, creating entire generations of grieving orphans with no hope for the future, and the only interaction he has with them is half an exchange with Lune and Sciel before they're pushed to the side and muted for the rest of the ending.
>>738012757What is that image supposed to prove?
>>738012825art imitates life
>>738012878You defended a game you have never played from a concept you don't understand for several hours.
>>738012901The weeaboo has gone into a total meltdown kek
>>738012901every modern jrpg copies persona 5. devs of e33 said that they love persona 5 and atlus' games in general and it shows
>>738012947I didn't defend anything. Go ahead and see.
>>738012963why did you reply to yourself?
>>738012987I lived it, I know what happened. That's why your brand of schizo is so insane to me.
>>738012920minhee last post?
>>738013040I lived it too. You'll notice my posts are like this >>738000327>Why is the painting a dream?>>738000451>why do you perceive the painting equivalent to a dream?Do you believe these are "defending E33"? I don't. They're just inquiries to control your thoughts and replies.I don't know a thing about the paintings, but I know you're equating them to the Eternal Sphere, which I know quite well. Thus, the guiding back.
>>738013031>says the guy resorting to samefagging because he lost
>>738013040You are borderline retarded. I'm talking barely functioning 60 IQ bona fide retard. See>>738012003>>738012718
>>738012757>>738012972>Devs of E33 said that they love anime, japan, jrpgs and created a game that copies all the elemnts from jap games they love like persona 5>Fans of E33 are insufferable fedora tipping faggots who can't stop screaming about how they hate jap gamesI feel bad for E33 devs. Imagine having a fanbase this shitty
>>738013146>Do you believe these are "defending E33"?Yes. Especially when you do it for hours. You literally defended a game you have never played from a concept you did not even attempt to understand even when given the tools to do so, and you did this for hours. That is peak schizo. >>738013164He already admitted it, you don't need to defend him.
>>738013208It really does have the worst fanbase.
>>738013240>Yes.And so, you are foolish. That's not a defense in any meaningful way.But as we've seen, you also think it's a dream, when it's not a dream in any meaningful way.You are awfully dead set on being wrong.
>>738013293>back to defending a game he's never played>"I never defended it, btw, definitely not for hours"Sasuga, schizo-kun
>>738013208>Fans of E33 are insufferable fedora tipping faggots who can't stop screaming about how they hate jap gamesI've yet to meet a single post like this that didn't reek of obvious bait.
>>738013240>>738013346You sound really mad bro
>>738013346It wasn't a defense, just like it wasn't a dream. Are you going to accuse me of raping you next?
>>738013208yeah it's sad
>>738013387>defends game he hasn't played>from concept he doesn't understand>he doesn't even attempt to understand it>he does this for hours>then says "I never defended it">then continues to defend itThe most schizophrenic schizo of all the schizos.
>>738013490Oh dear, he's stuck in a loop. Poor autismbot must've glitched out. Still not a defense, still not a dream.
>>738013490Its been 12 hours lil bro. Give it a rest.
