How can we solve this ludonarrative dissonance problem?
>>738066545No one forced you to play Spec Ops.
>>738066545I want to FUCK White Korra!
I WANT TO FUCK WHITE KORRAI WANT TO FUCK WHITE KORRAI WANT TO FUUUUUUUUUUCK WHITE KORRA
_ ____ __ ____ _____ _____
>>738066545There should be a secret ending in spec ops. After the first skirmish with those towel heads, you can start walking backwards and the credits play.
Why are normalfags incapable of separating themselves from the main characters of the media they consume?
>>738066637>>738066657>>738066658
>>738066807>normalfagsAlmost the entirety of /v/ is like that too.
>>738066626Yeah basically, this thread is always just ad nauseam back and forth between people who think artistic goals shouldn't conflict with commercial goals and those who think it should. All confusion about "not playing the game is the right answer?!" is actually just debate on whether they should have made a game that makes a statement against consuming the type of media it is. Yes, upon buying the game you have agreed to shoot these virtual brown people (based on living brown people that are living through still active conflicts) for your entertainment, why else would you purchase a game like this? The devs decided they wanted to produce art that emphasizes this somewhat interesting facet and they decided to sell this experience to fund its production.
>>738066807>Do you feel like a hero yet?
>>738066807>Game specifically breaks the 4th wall Hmm I wonder
>>738067685But I genuinely had fun shooting Americans and brown people
>>738067857Yeah it's fine to disagree with the devs that partaking in this entertainment is wrong, I also enjoy playing this kind of shooter. My post is about people who don't understand that yes the game is specifically calling (you) out for playing it and that it isn't a contradiction for art to do so.
>>738067228>condomNo. Rough and raw.
>>738066545Lean into itGive the evil act an achievement or some cosmetic reward and bait zoomers into doing something horrific because the game handed them an excuse.That's what the Milgram experiment was about
>>738068060You sound like one ofthose deviated preverts to me
why do faggots continually pretend like the video game company which charged me sixty dollars to play their game has any right to be telling me>just stop playing bro!why do cunts continually pretend that the video game company didn't explicitly direct messages of shame towards the player as though the character can read loading screens
>>738068190wrong thread
>I'm not a bad person because I was told to do the bad thingThis excuse doesn't hold up for murderers that talk about the voices in their head that told them to do it, they're considered bad people. So why is it suddenly wrong when a game does the same thing to its MC?
14.14 years of the same fucking threads.
>>738066545Learn to write a video game narrative that doesn't go against the gameplay.When playing spec ops the line I like to project nihilistc "empathy" on walker and laugh how every civilian I shoot in the head is saved because he no longer has to suffer in Dubai.>>738066681New game+ ending where you can end the game after the plane shootout.MGS3 but snake knows that Ocelot is ADAM and says the passwordXIII but you give the bank deposit box key to Mongoose at the beach>>738066807IQ too low.
>>738068541Do you genuinely not understand the difference between a video game and real life?
>>738068563Doors right there.Please take me with you, I can't leave.
>>738066545This art style is spiritual poison. I feel slightly ill at the thought that a real living person created this.
>>738066545
>>738066807The game directly adresses (you) the player in loading screens
>>738068317ToT
>>738068541There are many many people who think such people should go unpunished, in fact they're the ones that made this videogame, what a double standard huh
>>738066545Call of Duty is a better anti war game than Spec Ops: End of Rine.
>>738069742That's only because CoD is so boring it makes me not want to play war games.
>>738068541The innsanity plea is a real thing. If the defense can prove it, it results in a different sentencing. Also 'just following orders' is a legitimate excuse when you're the winner, but not the loser.
>>738066545>I'm not evil, I was just following orders!Golly gee I wonder if this might be related to something this game wanted to say??
Order followers are the most evil people in existence.
>>738070085>this was nowhere in the game>nobody in the devs ever talked about it>BUT IT MUST BE THIS BECAUSE THEY DINDUNOTHIN OK CHUDlmao. every time.
>>738066545>game about warcrimes>it's not the fire emblem seriesFunny how a nintendo anime game is edgier than fps slop.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr4X5xpzTNo
>>738066545>>738066626If Spec Ops the line was created as a movie rather than a movie-video game it would probably have been remembered significantly better
>>738069343itssofuckingdeep.webm
>>738066626I mean, the game wants to make me feel bad for shooting Arabs but since I've talked to Arabs irl I can honestly say I don't care if they are bombed en mass.They would do far worse to you and you family for not being the right kind of Arab.
>>738069129It's just a bootlet Last Airbender
>>738068317skirt too long
>>738066545Gamenarrative dissonance*
>>738066626Its not even a GOOD game, like its a bitch basic cover shooter, Vanquish is a thousand times better.
>>738070085This only works if you can also disobey those orders.
>>738069343You can tell the illustrator is mentally deficient purely by the fact they couldn't recognize harrison ford with glasses and felt the need to make note of it.
It's been a fucking decadeLet it go
>>738070437That's what ludo means.>>738070085Walker ignores his orders 5 minutes into the game and goes into places he never was supposed to go, ruining everything for everyone.
>>738070335You only shoot arabs at the start of the game and in one missionThe game wants you to feel bad for killing dozens of american soldiers for what in the end is a string of misunderstandings, bad intel and Walker really wanting to be a hero.
>>738066545>But I did eat breakfast...
>>738070928Precisely. It’s an uncommon loanword that makes it utterly pointless to use outside of pretentiousness.
>>738071395>It’s an uncommon loanwordIt's a latin root word anon, over a quarter of English vocabulary is directly borrowed from Latin.
>>738071462Nobody outside of old people who played a certain board game knows what Ludo means without being told.Being unintuitive makes it completely pretentious and utterly worthless
>>738070961Yeah I don't feel bad about that either lol I'm German
>>738069978MW2 Spec Ops is the best FPS game in history.
>>738066545You mean the ludodissonance narative problem? Easy, have the programmers write the story.
Spec Ops would have had actually something worth saying if it kept player agency. There was every chance to and the dilemmas would have worked, but it’s ruined because devs needed to railroad you so they can preach. Seriously, the snipers and the angry mob were perfect examples of an alternative choice that isn’t right in front of you and could actually make the player think on their actions without needing to force a problem.But either time, budget or stupidity made the game a waste of everyone’s time. The game tries to climax on you blaming the commander or the character (who at this point is being as subtle as a brick through glass about being the player) but it can’t sell the scene if you didn’t do anything “bad” so it forces the plot to fit, ruining the entire point.It changes the messaging from>Desensitization to violence can make us make decisions without care for consequence but you still have the agency to make a better choice.Into>Playing power fantasy games is bad and you should feel bad.
>>738066545Gaming was better when people cared about immersion and ludonarrative dissonance. Now everything is just a mindless bing bing wahoo and you're supposed to not think about the story implications of any of your actions. You're just supposed to try and bing bing the wahoo more efficiently with every run of your roguelike wahoo adventure
>>738070085>>738068541you're not "given orders"the game literally stops working until you do the shit it wantsit's more like being forced to obey the orders or face imprisonment>>738066626Now this is an argument, you could stop playing.But then that means you have a 2h game you bought for full price and may get upset.
>>738066626Undertale did it better
>>738072119>Seriously, the snipersNigger, none of the choices walker makes matter because he's already too far gone since starting the game, it's Walker's story he keeps chasing Konrad to ask him questions and finds a withered corpse in a chair>You didn't do anything badBuying the game was a questionable choice, :^)Walker did everything bad which led up to that point>it takes a strong man to deny what's in front of him>STRONGER THAN YOU WERE! Schizophrenia and disassociation is my superpower
>>738066545Far Cry 5 handled this much better than spec ops, because it provided an enemy that leftists actually want to hurt (people they perceive as conservative christians)
>>738072364No one forced the devs to make the game who is the real evil people?
>>738072119by deciding to enter the city in the first 5 minutes of the game he already sealed his fatethat its been over a decade and you still don't understand this shows how little you understood about the plot
>>738068563Best thing you can do is take a fat stinker in offending threads until enough people notice and start doing the same.
>>738068317I want to play video games with her so bad
>>738066545I always hated this kind of bullshit. It's the same thing as in Undertale - the game tries to make a broader statement about the player, but it completely ignores the fact that it's a fucking video game, and killing something in a video game will never be anywhere close to the real deal. Making morality judgments on players for playing CoD is like chastizing the rampant militarism of children playing with pretend guns made of funny-looking sticks. It's just retarded.
>>738066545>Play the war crime game everyone is raving about >See how often I can not war crime and continue the game>Get to the phosphorus bit>Softlocked if you don't >Carry on through the story >DO YOU FEEL LIKE A HERO YET>"You're here because you want to be something your not a hero"Probably hits harder when you go in not expecting a war crime story.
>>738072460Undertale is a good game, but its goals are different. Spec Ops is a psychological exploration of the protagonist that does its damnest to make the player identify with him and feel the weight of his actions. Undertale's genocide route is more of a somber meditation on the player's drive towards completionism.
>>738072767You may have had a point if the devs actually ment it to be just about Walker.Do you feel like a retard yet?
What recent games actually do this crap? I feel like more games don't after everyone pointed it out.
>>738072549>Just don’t buy the game broDidn’t give the devs a dime, story is still retarded now what?
Spec Ops The Line is the breakfast question of video games.
>>738072918Probably would hit harder if you could chose not to do the phosphorus stuff and instead you have a brutally hard, near impossible section of normal gameplay, then after you die a few times it starts asking if you want to reload to the choice. But that would require the devs to understand how to make gameplay.Their hamfisted "message" would also fall apart as there would be some people who do get through without the easy option
>>738072997I'm not the one still having a hard time understanding watered down heart of darkness after a decade so you'll have to tell me
>>738073042Having a "you're the bad guy for what you did" moment? Undertale and deltarune both come to mind, but both of those give the player control.I can't think of many recent games that do spec ops "the main character, and you the player, are bad and evil for doing the only option we have allowed to exist in the game!" thing.Even Ubisoft gives more player choices with farcry since in 4, 5, and 6 you can just not do the shit that kicks off the events of the game and you get a relatively good ending
>>738066545This comic is retarded. Walker in Spec Ops doesn't tell the player they are a bad person. The in-game world communicates to Walker he's a bad person, and the meta elements are used to make the player identify with Walker and his actions to enhance immersion. You being unable to engage with a hypothetical scenario isn't the game's fault.
>>738073302Theres no page of Heart of Darkness that chastises you for reading it
>>738073302Ah, I see why you think this game is good now.
>>738068317>at the age I truly would only want to play video gameshelp
>>738073425Some retard got really offended at that one throwaway loading screen tip that asks if you feel like a hero yet and made it his life mission to loudly complain about the game until the day he dies.
the fact that this game is the one brought up regarding this topic shows that it mostly invented it on it's own, or at least brought it to it's most extreme degree. Nobody cares that you kill goombas in Mario.
>>738069343I admire Winston Rowntree for being a prime example of how NOT to do comic book paneling.For some people, just like titanic, their purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.I choose the pic size on purpose. I want you all to see what am i talking about, not to read it. You really don't want to read that shit.
>>738073549>>738073632I'm sorry you're still mad after this game made you pee your pants back in middle school but now that you're in your 20's you should really be getting over it
>>738073770>retard thinks hes smart for defending fags who try to do the "y-y-you're a bad person for playing the game we made and paid full price for!! You should have bought it and then never played it!"
>>738073425>the meta elements are used to make the player identify with Walker and his actions to enhance immersionI've been saying this for years but people are too retarded to understand it.I gave up trying to explain it because it's clearly the same person with a hate boner for Spec Ops making the threads over and over.
>>738073425>game is not supposed to be about the player it’s about the character’s choices>game is supposed to make the player identify with character’s choicesWhich is it?
>>738066545>game breaks the 4th wall because walker is going insane>foid thinks the game is actually talking about herlol
>>738073767Funny how his best work is a bunch of furry pictures with one or two sentence on the bottom of the comic page.
>>738073904I accept your concession
>>738073951concession accepted, schizo
>>738073770Your concession is accepted.
>>738073951>>738074012>>738074024Man I love these threads
>people shit on overhyped "2deep4u" slop game>schizo starts sperging out and thinks every post is one person
>>738073934It's the meta context dumbass.Walker feels like he doesn't have a choice because the only alternate is leaving, the player feels like they don't have a choice because the only alternate is shutting the game off. The option was there for both parties but neither considered it a real option, that's the entire point of the game and it flew over everyone's head because of a loading screen tip. Even the reviewers that stroked it off when it came out didn't understand that so people went into the game expecting something different.
>>738073934I don't see the contradiction. It's a psychological character-exploration game. In the vein of books such as Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment. But it uses unique features of the medium of video games to deliver its themes and strengthen immersion.
>>738074183>you're just like this guy who murders children because you played a video game! $60 please!
>>738074409The words slide over your smooth brain like water off a duck's back.
>>738074487the devs aren't going to fuck you for defending them this much for over a decade
>>738066545The better question would be if it's always the same schizophrenic retard who makes threads about this game.
>>738074183Sorry everyone’s already done the “the real choice was to not buy the game” argument already. >it’s a meta commentaryArguing that the devs were creating a quasi commentary on sunk cost fallacy is next level cope.
>>738066545ackshuallyyou are you, the player, witnessing the story unfold of our protag, walkerwalker is walker, the protagonist, you move him around to follow his storywalker, instead, represents american imperialism going into bumfucknowhereistan in the name of freedomsraelgame was never "gamer bad"
>>738070254it gets talked more often than black ops 1 and that had brainwashing and other mental fuckity
>>738074631>Sorry everyone’s already done the “the real choice was to not buy the game” argument already.Why are you saying that like it's cope, it's literally the point of the game.>it’s a meta commentaryNo dipshit, it's not "commentary". It's not some allegory for sunk cost. I explained what I meant by meta context, shutting the game off and leaving Dubai are both options never considered by the player or Walker but were available the whole time. It's supposed to put you in the same headspace as Walker, the only option is forwards.>inb4 "shutting the game off would be stupid"You're not actually supposed to shut the game off. Again, it's the point of the game.It's the most unique way a video game has leveraged the medium to tell a story and you're all too fucking stupid to understand it.
>>738073113Try not to let it live rent free inside your head, have you tried painting? gardening? video games?>>738073934Do you avoid games with a female protagonist because the nanosecond you boot them up, you grab your testicles and and immediately lop them off?There are elements that are supposed to help you empathize with walker, to get into his shoes and see how he feels, you have a choice at the end if walker accepts responsibility and blows his brains out in chapter 15 or if he goes into an epilogue where he goes home, gets gunned down, or guns down rescue team, "labubus, welcome to dubai".>"We have our orders. Leave the city. Radio command from outside the storm wall. They send in the cavalry, we go home.">"What happened here was out of my control."
>>738074196The contradiction is the agency. Games use a level of interaction that books don’t have. You can identify with characters in books but you merely spectate the events. You actively participate in the progression of a game. The devs either ignored or didn’t think about this distinction and in doing so recontextualizes the events. Plenty of games offer consequence but aren’t talked about nearly as much because of how poorly Spec Ops handles them.
>>738066545IWTFWK
>>738075032The game is not criticizing you for your actions within the game it’s a criticism of the medium and people who engage with it, giving the player the option to avoid the message would be counter to what the game is doing
>>738074983>Devs make mid tier game that you shouldn’t have bought>No guys that’s the point it’s actually really meta and deep!
>>738074691wrong, the devs very much intended for players to be immersed and resent the developers for making them kill civilians
>>738075032Again, I don't see the contradiction. It's not a choose your own adventure game, so I don't understand why you're trying to evaluate it as such. The unique features of video games, like interactivity, are used here for the purpose of building immersion to strengthen the potency of the narrative, which is completely fair as far as I'm concerned. Also, Spec Ops is talked about to this day, because it's a great game. Nobody talks about shit games decades after their release unless they develop some niche cult following. Get a fucking grip.
>>738075149This is one of those scenes where a character mentions how a trope is cliché then proceeds to do it anyway.
>>738069343
>>738075536>Nobody talks about shit games decades after their release unless they develop some niche cult following.you now remember that highguard released at the end of this past January and its only "lasting" relevance is a passing mention in discussions of other slop flops
>>738075446Its just some brown sandpit, who cares.You're doing them a favor.
I liked the game and believe it was artistically well done and that the devs succeeded with their narrativehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pCI2xmZ01w
>>738075536>Nobody talks about shit games decades after their release
I loved Spec Ops: The Line. It's an excellent introduction to modern gaming.I took its lesson to heart. I understand it completely. The game asked me why I was even there, and I was blown away by that question because the answer was so obvious the entire time. I didn't really want to be.It wanted to me to turn the game off to preserve my own sanity and you know what, they were so prescient when it came to that idea. So I did what the developers wanted me to do and I turned it off and never played it again. They won! I won't ever play the game again and I even got a refund for it, so I took the lesson a step further and deprived them of my money as part of the lesson. I feel like that's fair. They wanted to make something that was a punishment for being played. Well they should also be punished for making it. After all, you can't just blame the guy who pulled the trigger, can you? He wouldn't be there if some rich suit didn't put him there in the first place!Great game and taught me an amazing lesson about modern games: just don't play em!
>>738075716Did you miss the "decades after their release" part? You think people will have lively discussions about Highguard a decade from now? Ones that pertain to its narrative and themes, and not just in some meta context of it failing as a product? Spec Ops also didn't perform great as a product when it released, but nobody even mentions that. People talk about its artistic merits instead, and it's pretty much the only military shooter game from that period that people talk about in such terms. It's because it's a challenging, controversial, and harrowing narrative, and there isn't anything quite like it out there.
this is why games will never be art.
You're not supposed to identify with Walker or self-insert as him. Think about it as a movie that devs were forced to make into a game so they added some filler shooting sections and made a couple scenes playable. That's it.>uhhh Walker represents this or that uhh it's an exploration of uhhNo, he's just a guy obsessed with being a hero, who does things he knows he shouldn't do because he thinks he'll get to save someone and be a hero, then he ends up making things worse over and over until he's dug himself into an inescapable hole. There's nothing particularly deep or special about the story other than it happens to be in video game format which means retards who cannot comprehend that the person on the screen isn't them can't deal with not playing as the good guy.
>>738076095Everything said about gamers by other medium consumers is true.
>>738076095Games are already art. All this proves is that the average person can't engage with art at all, which we knew already.
>>738067685>purchaseAnd that's where you're wrong you disingenous faggot.
>>738076185>You're not supposed to identify with Walker or self-insert as himCompletely and uttterly wrong, the very first sentence you wrote too. At least you got a reply huh? Explain the loading screens then you intellectual
>>738076317>Fart sniffers proclaiming depth in something to reassure their own egoYeah that checks.
>>738068563sorry but the bots must stay on otherwise advertisers will notice that /v/ has the speed of an altchan
>>738076546Art doesn't mean depth, it just means it has an emotional component rather than just being an arrangement of information. Shitty art that only manages to convey how much the creator is seething at something is still art.
>>738076267>by other medium consumers is trueBro, you're talking about hollywood and tv goycattle here.
>>738076527>>You're not supposed to identify with Walker or self-insert as himYour steam ID, gamertag, PSN name, is in the opening credits as "Special guest".
>do the warcrime or you don't get to play (and by play I mean being chastised for playing the game)>masochistic retarded bluesky faggots think this means i'll buy the gameIn reality it just means i'm never giving any money to the faggots involved with it aka Hardsuit Labs (the successor studio to Zombie) and to faggots who want to ape them.
>you choose to do it!Yeah well you choose to implement it you dumb fuckers.That's like complaining that someone followed the only correct route of a CYOA book.
>>738068563nothing better has come out. we are stuck.
>>738073934It's about the player by the devs own admission no matter how the defenders cry and shit themselves over it.
>>738068563And we will get 14 more years of asshurt
>>738076657hollywood was good at one point
>>738076656>>738076546
>>738073939yeah, that one is actually good.still didn't learn a thing from making it.
>>738076943Death of the author.
>>738066545how do we solve the same exact thread being made for over a decade straight?
>>738077696
>>738076056Far Cry 3 does the "Nieve guy becomes a savage monster" story better and as a player you never really stop rooting for Jason. The difference is that FC3 never attempts to make the player feel culpable in any of the things he does.Because that's dumb.
>>738066545Spec Ops always gets flak for its dogshit white phosphorous scene as it should but everyone seems to forget the scene near the end with the crowd of civilians. They surround you and you can't go past them, if you try to go past them they push you back, you aim your weapon at them and they don't flinch. Soon enough the player will shoot them because they're in the way, they are an obstacle and as you've deal with every obstacle before with shooting it, you don't really think twice. You need to get past them and you might not be able to think of another way to get past them.Once they scatter, your squad mate will then say "why did you shoot them? you could've shot in the air and they'd have left?" and he was right.
Say what you want, but Spec Ops failed in the end no matter how you try to spin itMillions upon millions of children are still killing people in shooters, and nobody really cares about the moral implications of that (since why would they, they're polygons on a screen)
>>738066545Neil Druckmann is a hack.
>>738078562dude did an awesome job at last of us worldbuilding, but the praise went way over his head and shit all over the franchise.something similar happened with lords of shadow director, everyone praised him for a job well done in the first part, and became an obnoxious asshole in the second one.
>>738076498Ok, so you choose to pirate it instead, can you explain how that changes my point?
>>738076527Maybe the loading screen tips were written by an intern. Maybe they're meant to address Walker instead of the player. Who cares, they're loading screen tips, I hope you realize how retarded it is that you think a critical plot point which reframes the entire story was hidden away in loading screen tips that half the people don't even read.
Do people really not understand the concept of an unreliable narrator? Did you people read Catcher in the Rye and think Holden Caulfield was telling the whole truth about his life?
>>738077871>Far Cry 3 does the "Nieve guy becomes a savage monster" story betterAbsolutely not, what the fuck are you even talking about. I played through Far Cry 3 multiple times, and I missed Jason's "character development" every single time, because I missed that you could talk to the retards in the cave to get a few in-game cut scenes of him freaking out. Jason basically becomes the same savage killer he is at the end of the game the moment he gets his first pistol. The gameplay doesn't reflect his character development at all. In Spec Ops, Walker's character progression is reflected in so many ways during gameplay. He starts out as a competent squad commander, using military language and commands. Then his reload animations become sloppy, he completely quits using military jargon and instead yells curse words when killing enemies. He hallucinates enemies turning into his fallen comrades smearing his failure in his face. Then those hallucinations don't show up again if you die and restart a segment, adding to this sense that he's going crazy. Loading-screen tool tips stop being tips and instead become derisive. That's just a few things, but there is so much done in gameplay to reflect Walker's mental state collapsing. Far Cry 3 is not comparable in that sense.
>>738078919You didn't play the game, you know exactly what you are doing right now. Why bother lying through your teeth? Are you this desperate for engagement?
>be in highschool>hang out with the nerds from time to time because I like vidya>they only like normie shit even though they act like they are above the normies>one day they start telling me about Spec Ops>no anon you DON'T understand, this game CHANGED how I saw videogames! You HAVE to play it>don't care, looks like a shitty TPS>ignore it>find out that the reason is that the game blames you for playing the game>"well that's dumb"The two kids who praised this shit ended up being reddit stereotypes.
A "third-person" game is usually telling a third person narrative, and often first person games are doing the same. It's a failure of the gamer to understand perspective. Spec Ops is a third person game with a third person narrative, as opposed to day BioShock, a first person game with a near first person narrative. I liken the two because they have similar revealed, but different contexts.
>>738079198Who fucking asked?
>>738079195Given how many idiots here seem to argue that the story was about killing is bad or something along those lines I'm convinced I'm the only one that actually played it. But do carry on arguing about an imaginary plot you dreamed up.
>>738066545kek
>>738075712you guys lost vietnam.and for the look of things, iran is on its way to become vietnam 2.0that's gonna be the orange man's legacy to america. the one thing they will never forgive him for.
>>738066545eternal German Kino
>>738079198Thank you for answering.>>738079282I did.
>>738079018>Did you people read Catcher in the Rye and think Holden Caulfield was telling the whole truth about his life?I thought he was insufferable and arguably the first redditor in fiction which is impressive when reddit didn't even exist yet.
>>738067685>war is bad and games that vilify killing your enemies as faceless goons are bad>proceeds to make the most railroaded campaign that has 0 thought put into it other than to make money>the players aren't doing what we want so we are FORCING them to use phosphorous because they would prefer to choose the "harder" path of killing snipersit's a shit game with a shit story written by people huffing their own farts that think their customer base is full of retarded jarheads who love killing civilians, which just goes to show how retarded they really are>they need to be dragged into the lightmeanwhile they write the most contrived story of a one man army doing whatever the fuck he wants only to turn around and say>yes you, the player, are a bad person for playing the game
>>738080170>>war is bad and games that vilify killing your enemies as faceless goons are badNot what the story is about. You niggers are so retarded it hurts to read.
>>738074894it doesn't get talked about, everyone already knows the director/writer of the game is a goofball who wrote, developed, and funded a game about war killing people, the way they go about it is completely wrong and forced upon you, there has been an interview showing the exact thoughts of the writer during these loading screen tips and yes they confirmed, they are talking to you the playeryes, that's right, the people who think you're dumb and unable to think about the pixels you are killing, wrote a war game about people who are unable to think and assume themselves as heroesit's just bait, no one actually cares about the game because it sucks, it's literal shit dripped off an art students ass
>>738080356oh yeah? if it's not about war being bad, then what is it about? You won't say because it's about war and it's consequences on soldiers/gamers, the one they're making money off of, much like people who push wars do.
>>738075712HOLY BASED
>>738079037The entirety of FC3 is Jason getting mindfulness by Citra into becoming the perfect warrior. His progress is shown through the tattoo and skill system.
>>738081150Fucking autocorrect Jason was getting mind-fucked. Brainwashed. At one point he has the chance to leave with his friends/girlfriend and chooses instead that he would rather kill Vaas and Hoyt.
>>738066545>How can we solve this ludonarrative dissonance problem?Point a gun at anyone that used the phrase and if they can't explain why the number of enemies thrown at you is an issue but that your character time travels when a save point is reloaded or heals miraculously or the fact that they're sitting on their couch with a controller in their hand isn't then you shoot them in the face.
>>738078316I shot them because they just hanged my unarmed squad mate through his pleads for mercy and decided to hang around like they were tough shit. Throughout the game the only innocents I killed were the people hit with white phosphorous, which was unfortunate but also a complete accident (in-game, IRL your hand is so ridiculously forced. I knew about it beforehand and tried not to hit them but there's one humvee that somehow elicits an explosion 4 times the size of every other shell to cover all the civilians). Everybody else shot at me first, chased me down, refused to engage in dialogue or organized with the people who did such things. Not to mention the casual torture and executions everywhere.
>>738080478Walker was supposed to pull back and radio for support so the cavalry could roll in and murder everyone who needed murdering. That part is never criticized at any point in the story, where Walker went wrong is that he wanted to have a big hero moment where he rescued someone so he pushed on instead, disobeying his orders and as consequence ends up fucking everything up for everyone. I guess if you really wanted to take away a message about war from it it's that soldiers should follow their fucking orders, which is pretty in line with how the military operates.
I like the setting. Modern city falling into a desert is cool. I'm easy for settings though, like I still replay the first nu-tomb raider because Island with tons of ship-and-plane-wrecks is also cool. It's possible I have bad taste tho.
>>738081613I don't think the number of enemies was an issue in this game, I killed pretty neatly 1000 enemies which is usually what a battalion contains.
>NOOO YOU CAN'T HURT THOSE NPCS, THEY'RE HECKIN INNOCENTMe, a scholar that enjoyed the genocide ending in Armored Core: For Answer:
>>738072894Undertale doesn't make any comment on the player beyond a small snide "you really just change your priorities whenever it's convenient, huh" if you do the single out-of-line path and try to do the true pacifist end post-genocide. If you don't do that, it doesn't comment on the player at all.
>>738071985underaged, oh wait that's just the reality we live in now that you evolutionary dead ends can vote is it?
>>738066545ok is this autism? these are the retards that will call you a troon for playing as a girl in a random rpglike when you play tomb raider, are you really larping as lara?
>>738066545Why do retards always self insert and think the game is calling them out in person instead of the game just calling the player character a bad person
>>738066545It insists upon itself
>>738081321I love far cry 3. When he's handed the glowing artifact or whatever and he goes "what the fuck is this trippy shit" like he knows he's losing it.
>>738084935That argument doesn't work because the character can't read the loading tips. Using a medium that literally only exists for the player is actively counter to the game supposedly addressing him only.
>>738085643This isn't a loading tip though and loading tips like this only happen when you fuck up and kill too many allies or an innocent guy and fail the mission because of it.
>>738067228>Braces I'm listening
>>738067857This. I’m not sorry.
>>738066545its really frustrating that literally everyone on the chud-tranny spectrum is completely incapable of grasping meta-narrative beyond the layer of "DEADPOOL IS TALKING TO ME PERSONALLY!"
>>738075149>it’s a criticism of the medium and people who engage with it>Hey you shouldn't hit that red button, it's really bad if you do>Attempt to not press button and just continue on>can't, locked in the room until you press the button>Press button to continue>OMG YOU ARE THE BAD PERSON HOW COULD YOU DO THIS>(You), a retard: OMG THIS IS SO DEEP AND META AND ARTCriticism is only fair when your actions aren't forced. I didn't want to press the button. I attempted to continue and was told "NO YOU NEED TO PRESS THE BUTTON SO WE CAN BERATE YOU ABOUT PRESSING THE BUTTON" When you start doing that shit you lose immersion and the point of the art goes down the shitter.>hurr but you can just not play itThen give me my money and time back you cum-guzzling, homosexual nigger.
>>738075536>Nobody talks about shit games decades after their releaseSonic 06 is one of the greatest games of all time. Thanks for confirming that Anon.
I ___ Spec Ops: The Line. I feel it generates as much if not discussion than say Silent Hill 2.
>>738068563
it's very funny how absolutely everyone completely glosses over that Spec Ops is a blindingly obvious commentary on Bush-era geopolitics and thinks that the only message of the game is "you are evil gamer"
>>738087865>nooo you don't understand how deep this gay nigger game isNo, the problem that people like (You) and those retarded semen chugging devs don't understand is that gamers saw through what you were trying to do and realized you were hacks.>BUT THE ARTFell flat on it's face. You can try and be meta all you want, if we see right through it and realize you're trying to cheat then we'll call you out on it.To put it another way. The devs are no different from a chink hacking an MMO and giving himself OP gear.
>>738088717cheat what?
The problem is not that you don't have any control over how the events turn out, it's that the game overall is a mediocre and forgettable 7th gen TPS and desperately tries to twists its head with a "gotcha!" momentIt's the videogame equivalent of "I was only pretending to be retarded! XDD"
>>738072918>try to play game without pressing W>softlocked until i press W>somehow this is the devs faultthese threads are fucking cancer and are made specifically for the clinically retarded, living on gibs.
A mediocre game for midwits, both gameplay and narratively.
>>738072119It's doubly weird because the last scene gives you that agency and lets you decide Walker's fate in multiple ways.The rest of the game should've been that way too, even if they just gave you a game over if you decide not to use the white phosphorus.
>>738072119>if it kept player agency.At any moment you could've shut the game off and walked away.
>>738066626As long as they gave full refunds when people learned their lesson to not play the game.
>>738089617>it’s about pushing a buttonEither you’re the illiterate retard you’re talking about or you’re a disingenuous faggot.
>>738066626>pay 60 bucks for a game>expect to play it like a normal game>get shamed for it
>>738091125that was kind of the point. games about doing cool war crimes shouldn't be "normal" and the only way for the industry to change is for you, the player, to stop buying them.
>>738091784>muh war crimes War "crimes" are a fictitious concept to punish loser nations. No one gives a fuck about them.
>>738088026>go to the store and buy game about pushing buttons>you push the button, but the game calls you a bad person for it>”I wouldn’t push the button if I had a choice”
>>738091784And by what moral standard are you holding this to?
>>738091970>>738090859
>>738079527you get lost from your containment board?
>>738091784how come the war crime police didnt recognise dropping nuclear bombs on two japanese cities as a war crime?
>>738091960that's what loser politicians tell you when they want you to go do warcrimes and die for their oil money.
>>738068563It's great
>>738066626True, and I never did. I guess this is a win for the devs, fewer people buying and playing their game? Although, to be honest, I don't even like "realistic" shooters, just sci-fi/horror themed ones.
>>738068541Actually, criminals who are proven to be insane get different treatment.Not to mention that commiting a crime in a virtual world is absolutely not the same as doing it in the real world, where there are actual, often irreversible, consequences.
>>738069343>colonialism is badMore like niggers are savages and if we go into the Jungle we won't civilize them, the jungle with savagize us.
>>738072894It's not retarded, it is precisely aimed at making people feel bad over doing nothing wrong. It is manipulative, a mentality that is at the basis of various movements and which can often yield results through such underhanded means. Pretending that something actually serious and something harmless are the same over superficial similarities is a common method employed.
>>738074183>neither considered it a real optionIn the players' case, at least, it isn't, since the story is linear up until the end, without player agency affecting its course, thus continuing playing it only changes whether that story is witnessed, not if it happens (it obviously does, just outside the player's perception). Not palying is equivalent to turning a blind eye if like to get meta
>>738066637what?
>>738070335>referring to them as arabsYou are an israeli kike
The greatest midwit filter. The people upset about that game are the same ones who couldn't tell you how they'd feel if they didn't eat breakfast yesterday
>>738071634i don't get it
>>738081920>there's one humvee that somehow elicits an explosion 4 times the size of every other shell to cover all the civiliansWP shells are like pitbulls, they go the extra mile when there's vulnerable targets at hand
>>738092697I really wish the gameplay part was better.The visual and sound direction was on point.
>>738098498"I oughta slug ya for that!"
>>738066545>B-b-but they MADE me do it!No dumbass, Walker did it. Because he was desperate and that's how his story goes. Are you also mad when Link is "forced" to save zelda?>B-But the loading screen said—Building atmosphereGet out of your mind prison retard you're making yourself mad for no benefit
>>738071634tried it on my gf, it works
>>738069742
What if I watch a let's play instead? Did I wonnered?
>>738090859It's just that "leftists pretend not to understand something making discourse impossible thing" they always do.Can't take that gamers saw through their gay "gams r art u gaiz" shit because they think gamers are dumber than them.As it turns out, we're smarter than them and they're often dumber than a mentally disabled toddler that still watches Nick Jr
Games that try to be meta will sleays have the problem of the the player being able to say no when the game tells them to be guilty or sad or whatever. On the other hand games that sacrifice gameplay for ludonarritive synchronicity are typecast in their story. They need to account for the players confusion as they learn the game world and mechanics. AAA games will try to be meta, it's low risk low reward creative writing, and it's pitfalls usually come in later in the story so they don't risk refunds from customers that didn't like it.
>>738066545By playing Olivia in Fear and Hunger 2 Termina, aka the queen of the ludonarrative gameplay experience.
>>738066545does anyone have that one comic about the alpha, beta, and omega power ranger guys barging into this one random discussion that's going on?
>>738067685No, the problem is that if they're going to try to act like you're a bad person for doing what the game tells you, they should give you some kind of alternative path. Even if that alternative path just gets you killed immediately for insubordination. Don't make me kick a puppy, give me no other options to the point where you lock me in the start of a kicking animation until I press the kick button, and then yell at me for being an evil piece of shit for kicking the puppy.
>>738067685>is actually just debate on whether they should have made a game that makes a statement against consuming the type of media it is.Except that is a fundamental misunderstanding of the statement the game is making. The game isn't saying you shouldn't play military shooters. The statement is you should ask why shooters make everything look so simple, clean, and straightforward, and do you believe it is actually like that.This is where players, and even critics, mess up. SOTL isn't about war, or about players being bad, it is actually a criticism of military shooters as a genre of game. It is, as the far sniffers say, a meta commentary about the medium.
>>738066545Stop playing it.
>>738079527>you guys lost vietnam.um, ACKCHUALLY! we signed a treaty with the North Vietnamese, and then the North Vietnamese attacked the South Vietnamese a few years later after we already left! Technically, neither the NVA nor the USA lost because they agreed to stop fighting each other.(and politicians handicapped the USA military during the war e.g. the military wasn't allowed to chase the NVA across the border into nearby countries.)
i used the white phosphorus and i'd do it again
>>738066626this, you the player made the choice to play middle eastern brown n bloom stay frosty semper fi bulletshoot vidya
>>738066626they marketed and sold you the game saying that you should buy and play it
>>738066545You can tell the person who made this comic struggled in school
>>738072852
>>738109009The marketing team realized something the writers didn't. No one is going to want to play a game where you're the villain killing hundreds of people while trying to justify to yourself that you're actually the hero. So some creative liberties were taking with the ads, as often happens with the marketing department.
The satire of modern military shooters by spec ops falls entirely flat because their first priority was to make a marketable product to sell as many $60 copies as possible
>>738079527Deep, just like the cock that's balls deep in your bussy, gay boi
>>738069742CoD (and GTA) are the main reasons why millions of kids think killing is cool
>>738111743kids have thought killing is cool for thousands and thousands of years anon
