>>738067274
This is true, but you have to remember that an expansion doesn't happen over night. Something can have a good start and strong middle but fall off.

i played vanilla-tbc, then left the game when i read the patch notes for wotlk
those notes proved to me that the game was going to continue down the shared city for both factions route, which killed the game for me

>>738067274
wrath was shit

it began in TBC
>left the enormous two (2) continents behind in favor of funneling players into tiny Outland, a pattern that will FOREVER be replicated with each subsequent expansion
>first official separation of pve and pvp with arenas
>resilience aka versatility
>daily quests
>no more 40 man raids where the giga sweats could effectively carry half the raid, now everyone has to be switched on and pulling their weight (pve was no longer a chill social thing with free loot where you could shoot shit with the boys for a few hours)
>homogenization of classes and hyper balancing of specs
>easy/hardmode dungeons aka modern normal/heroic/mythic system
there's more

>>738067274
>have with cata began with WotLK.
WotLK does not have tauren paladins

>>738067274
>many of the issues players have with cata began with WotLK.
name 3

buy an ad maye

Wrath didn’t nuke 90% of Azeroth

>>738067274
WoTLK was 2 delayed snowballs
People were already leaving in droves, but more newfags were coming in because of other people that said how great was TBC and how its finally Arthas' expansion.
It was one big snowball of newfags coming in, but another slightly smaller snowball of oldfags leaving because of how shit the expansion is.
Then when all the newfags saw how ass the game has become, they left after the Assclown Shitadel, when Cata released.
The few that remained, were cumguzzling casualfags that were too dumb to play their class, so they got immediately BTFO'd by unnerfed Cata Heroics, threw a baby tantrum and blamed it all on Cata being a bad expansion, like the low-iq subhumans that they are, when WoTLK was responsible for all of it all along.

>>738067616
>dungeon finder
>Simplification of systems such as removing pet training, poisons crafting, demon trainers, most priest racials, etc
>heirlooms
I don't think wrath is bad at all, but the seeds were starting to be planted

>>738068062
>dungeon finder bad
yeah, I'm spending 30 mins spamming chat to find someone to run a dungeon with, not counting the time it's gonna take everyone to get there

>>738067571
this
wow peaked during vanilla
the only reason people say TBC or Wotlk is peak is because thats when they started playing

>>738068062
None of those things are bad.

>>738069351
TBC was pretty cool out of novelty and the fact that certain specs were viable is part of that. Seeing entirely new lands, finally getting though the portal which had always been the main menu of WoW was something in of itself. WotLK in comparison suffered from less new things and even weaker effort, Blizz got bought by Activision by then which means it had to pay immense debt that to Vivaldi or something, it became about money and not art. But yes, you repeating what TBC did was a bad plan, not a good formula.

For the last couple months I've been jonesing pretty bad to play WoW again, should I give money to Blizzard or is there a decent TBC/Wrath-era private server?

>>738071052
Same. I want to play WoW pretty badly. However, I hate modern Blizzard so damn much I feel bad even thinking about giving them money. I also don't think I'd fit in in any instance of WoW either. I'd rather chill raid like the old days instead of the GDKP nightmare WoW is.

>>738067571
90% of the enormous two continents were totally irrelevant at endgame. There were many areas that you would never go to again after doing the leveling quests in them.
In outland, the whole continent was important not just for leveling but for doing various stuff at endgame. Every area had max lvl dungeons, raids, dailies, farms, or rep grinds

>>738071052
If you don't care about group content then you can run a vanilla - wrath private server easily from your own pc. I just enjoy levelling and questing so it's perfect for me

>>738071191
>I'd rather chill raid like the old days instead of the GDKP nightmare WoW is.

what does that even mean

>>738067274
People seethe about dungeon finder but havent lived through dying in the nexus 9 out of every 10 times because the pug put a shield on an arms warrior and healed with an spriest.
It was literally 1-2 hours to form the group just to die dozens of times over the next 1-2h and give up without completing the final boss. This was the experience in the normal dungeon, not even heroic.

>>738067274
I miss the racial priest spells

>>738071319
>totally irrrelevant in the endgame
that's why the could've expanded the zones instead of creating a cordoned off reservation that made the main continents even more irrelevant

>>738071587
The convenience gained from queue based content was not worth the loss of social aspects to an mmo

>>738073083
that would be the the inter-realm phasing/dungeon finding

>>738067571
>pve was no longer a chill social thing with free loot where you could shoot shit with the boys for a few hours
Horrible take. Go do a full clear of BRD if you want a chill PVE session retard.

>>738068181
yes, that's part of what makes the "World" a world. you have to find people (encourages you to build a network of friends) and you have to go o the dungeon (encourages coordination with said friends, as you can have people standby to summon while someone is in town looking for the last person).

>>738067616
Dungeon Finder.
Raid tier obsolescence/catch up gear(aka welfare epics)
Normalization of flying which completely killed WPvP (flying easily could have just been a TBC thing, 99% of Northrend is ground accessible which means they at minimum considered completely preventing flying)

>>738067571
>first official separation of pve and pvp with arenas
You say this like PvP in vanilla WoW was any good.

>>738067274
>Running Nax at lvl 80
lmao.
>Top tier set pieces were just given away farming dailies.
Holly casual batman!

>>738067469
tbc already had a shared city you double nigger

>>738073625
Small scale WPvP in Vanilla with a bunch of uncoordinated randos slamming into eachother was some of the funnest content the game had to offer.

>>738071052
get the SPP classics repack and play that

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>>738067274
>hear bands i liked when i played wow
>think of wow

>>738067274
wrath was the first expansion that had a cash shop and lfg
I still think it's good but it's important to remember it was when the activision merge happened
>>738067571
I still love TBC but everything you said is correct, although I dont mind splitting pve and pvp i think both are at their best when the other isnt part of it

Ulduar and IC were ok, but the rest sucked. I guess 3 drakes was kinda cool for first few times.

>>738067571
>first official separation of pve and pvp with arenas
I hate arena for what it did to WoW, but battlegrounds absolutely did this first.

>>738073724
I had 10x the fun doing random world pvp in TBC and Wrath than I ever did in Vanilla.
Vanilla pvp was imbalanced as all fuck. WoW pvp without resilience is dogshit.

There's a reason the game was only great during TBC/WotlK era.
Vanilla was decent, and the game started falling apart quickly with Cata

Here's the real reason Wrath was gay as fuck: fixation on vehicle combat.

>>738073912

>Warrior player who got spammed with Curse of Exhaustion so he couldn't keep up as I rode on top of the tank defending it in Strand of the Ancients

Fun as fuck

>>738073912
yeah, that was bad, still better than TBC's awful "bombing run" quest type that they were in love with at the time.

>>738073871
you are homosexual, that has nothing to do with wow pvp

>>738074010
Stay bad while I get 2300 in Arena and use that gear to run around the world with my arena partner ganking people

>>738067274
Isle of Quel'Danas and dailies was the beginning of the end. Activision acquiring Blizzard is what killed wow, but WotLK was still mostly good still.

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>>738067274
I know its not quite the same, but playing through Classic WoW 2019 from day one until I quit after our second Heroic Lich King kill pre-nerf, I think Wrath is by far the weakest of the "Classic Trilogy". Its still good, but you can see the very faintest hints of the retail design philosophy and it just wasnt as enjoyable as Vanilla or TBC.
>inb4 you didnt play vanilla
I did, just as a kid and I never got to 60 for raiding back then, and its fine if you disagree. All of Vanilla through Wrath was still great.
Vanilla>TBC>>>Wrath

>>738074072
>run around the world with my arena partner really just proving his point that you're homosexual.

>>738074130
Have fun with that runback

>>738074001
It was a neat gimmick but they shoved it into just about every activity. Way overstayed the welcome.
>>738074009
True. But I think that's only half of the reason Halaa was a failed experiment.

I liked DK at the start. Having all be tanking and dps was a cool idea. Shame they killed it asap.

>>738074110
The only difference between vanilla and classic was that players were just way worse at the game during vanilla.

>>738074182
have fun gallivanting around with your boyfriend.

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>>738073083
i this this aspect is overplayed. the real reason is dungeons dont require much explanations and people can afford rushing without dieing plus the map and boss strat and everything being spoiled in the UI

old wow FORCED coordination, if you tried that you would die, and sometime you would want specific healer you couldnt just go in with a priest in a dungeon full of poison easily, some would require a dispeller and make shaman run difficult etc obviously yo ucant do that as much with dungeon finder. alsoyou had dungeons where it was difficult to go thre alone so you would need to wait for others because of elites mobs, keys etc. the dungeon finde rsocialization was often just spamming the fucking chat and you wouldnt necessarily chat a lot with people before a dungeon besides aksing whether people took their shit did got whatever quest etc, which you can theoretically do with a finder but you would have to be able to say i want shaman only as a healer etc. doesnt help that its crossrealm so its ppl you would likely never see again.

>>738074261
>old wow FORCED coordination, if you tried that you would die, and sometime you would want specific healer you couldnt just go in with a priest in a dungeon full of poison easily,

that's not true at all

>>738074358
yeah there's not a single dungeon where you wouldn't fist your own asshole to get a priest to join you

Is TBC Anniversary worth it, bros? I want to go back so bad.

>>738073687
his post literally said "continue", he was saying he didnt like TBC doing it and left when he saw it was happening a second time

>>738074406
dungeon comp doesn't matter much at all in the first 3 xpacs.
As long as you have a tank, a healer, and 1 person than has a regular Rez, You'll be fine.

>>738074431
Meh

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>>738074431
If you want to level to 60/70 its still pretty populated and a great time. Don't raid though. Don't even think about trying to raid. Its all poopsock sweatlords or the dad gamer thats so unbelievably dogshit you question if he's missing his frontal lobe and there isnt a middle ground anymore. Also, thanks to bots the economy, gathering professions and consumables are fucked.

>>738074572
>>738074624
Is there any good WoW right now? Era?

Hardcore was the first thing to scratch the wow itch for me in a long, long time. I'll always remember my journey to 60 in that one. I sometimes still get the urge to go back again for another run but
>giving blizzard money

>>738074683
Era is okay to meh for leveling because its perma naxx phase and all the new players are going to TBC right now. I'd rather level through TBC just for the ability to play with others and actually find dungeons in a reasonable amount of time, but Era is still Classic, so its still fun.

>>738074497
thats bullshit even for dps sometime you need mandatorily CC, or decurse etc.. BRD you greatly benefit from a rogue or even need for special kinds of runs..sometimes you really need AOE dps. depending on the strength of your current group especially how far you want to go. you dont really want to take risk when you choose a long ass dungeon by example.

you COULD run it witohut but it would become noticeably more difficult, not even the same encounters

>>738074687
I don't know how people can stand to play hardcore.
I've died lots of times because of disconnect.

I feel like losing an entire character because I d/c would send me into a massive rage

>>738074834
>thats bullshit even for dps sometime you need mandatorily CC
Not really.

>BRD you greatly benefit from a rogue or even need for special kinds of runs
NO dungeon in vanilla whatsoever does comp matter even a little bit.
Shit is pathetically easy.

>Despite being widely considered to be one of if not the best wow expansion
By people who started playing during it.

>>738074863
NTA, but the only time I've played or would play Hardcore is if I was going to level the character anyway just to see how far I could get. Then when I die just transfer it over to normal servers and continue.

>>738067274
True, but it's the best expansion continent they've ever made.

>>738074863
>I don't know how people can stand to play hardcore.

Most people playing hardcore have played Wow so much that the risk of character deletion is the only thing that makes them feel something,

>>738075024
Somewhat true. You'd be surprised how many people started vanilla with HC though. The added tension draws in a different crowd.

>>738067571
>left the enormous two (2) continents behind in favor of funneling players into tiny Outland
The vast majority of those two continents were obsolete once you were max level. You had no reason to go back to low level zones unless you were leveling a gathering profession.
>first official separation of pve and pvp with arenas
I fail to see why this is a bad thing.
>resilience aka versatility
So that PvP isn't just a game of "who can global the other with crits".
>daily quests
I fail to see why this is a bad thing.
>no more 40 man raids where the giga sweats could effectively carry half the raid, now everyone has to be switched on and pulling their weight (pve was no longer a chill social thing with free loot where you could shoot shit with the boys for a few hours)
Oh, so you're a casualdad crying that you actually have to pay attention now and can't be carried
lmao
>homogenization of classes and hyper balancing of specs
No, you're thinking of WOTLK. Also fucking lmao at insisting TBC was "hyper balanced"
>easy/hardmode dungeons aka modern normal/heroic/mythic system
Yeah, 5mans having two difficulties is the same exact thing as raids having 4 difficulties

retard

>>738073069
>the could've expanded the zones instead of creating a cordoned off reservation
the issue with that is that it only kicks the ball down the road
there is only so much new content for endgame players and level appropriate players in zones like loch modan, redridge, hinterlands and those other zones like feralas and tanaris that you never go back to

>>738074909
you sound like a total faggot are you one of these syaing wow vnailla raids were easy that you were wasting time getting world buffs using consumables etc? It doesnt matter if something is "easy" because in game you re restricted by the ppl that join the group and their gear and even lack or lack of thereof therefore ther eis no such thing as "easy" (mind youthe conversation is about dugneon finder not your pro kungen nolife raiding sect

>>738075169
This
You can only tack on extra land to EK/Kalimdor for so long before it becomes a mess. At some point you're going to have to create a new continent.

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>>738067571
They will fucking hate you for stating the truth but you forgot one thing: flying mounts.

>>738070604
unc really be like "oh lawd thems were the good ol days" :skull: :skull:

>>738067571
>>no more 40 man raids where the giga sweats could effectively carry half the raid, now everyone has to be switched on and pulling their weight (pve was no longer a chill social thing with free loot where you could shoot shit with the boys for a few hours)
nobody likes 40 man raids.

>>738075276
>flight paths can take you everywhere in vanilla
>this is fine
>flying mounts do the same thing but a little faster
>AHHHHH IT'S TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST ADDITION IN THE GAME'S HISTORY AAAHHHH

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>>738075276
Based gnome enjoyer.

>>738075474
If you genuinely believe this is an apt comparison you never played vanilla or classic.

>>738075474
all the faggots crying about flying mounts are just undead rogues seething that it's harder for them to gank people who are just trying to quest

>>738075556
>you disagree with me therefor YOU DIDN'T PLAY
clockwork
concession accepted

>>738075169
not really. they could've just added new endgame subzones to those lower zones a'la onyxia's lair in dustwallow etc.

>>738075595
There is no disagreement because you know you're just talking out of your ass.

>>738075607
You can't make an entire expansion out of "sub zones", anon.

>>738075667
>y-y-y-you're wrong!
>still no counterargument
concession duly accepted

>>738075567
the people questing dont have the flying mount yet, flying mount make it easier for the rogue to gank you they just fly from nowhere and get in your back and can see where everybody is they can skip all the mobs just through holes dodges chokepoints etc

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>>738075480
I was originally gonna post that but last time I did I got a warning.
>>738075474
Thats...not a good comparison at all.

>>738075218
they could've coasted on EK/Kalimdor for 5 expacs before it would become a problem, not abandon it with the very first one. Even then it would only be a problem if they'd go the lazy route of "tacking on extra land" as you said instead of developing the zones vertically or adding rotating "dead zones" where parts of low level zones would be temporarily populated by invasions of endgame mobs

>>738067274
It was okay for what it was
TBC was where they fucked up the game

>>738067274
Nordend is so fucking boring its insane
BfA is the best expansion

>>738067274
Yeah, because the retards at Blizzard didn’t know where to stop. Wrath had the perfect balance of quality of life improvements mixed with old school WoW charm and feel

>>738075474
In all seriousness, pretty much every single argument against flying mounts also applies to flight paths, but you never see anyone crying to remove flight paths.

>It lets you just fly over zones and skip everything
>It hinders world pvp
>It makes the world feel smaller
literally all of these apply to flight paths too, but for some reason flight paths are okay

>>738075674
you can if you wouldn't force people to level 10 extra levels each expac and charge them a cost of a brand new game on top of a monthly subscription

>>738071587

That's why the dungeons should've been made easier so you didn't need some perfect comp. I'll never understand this MMOfag obsession with everything needing to be ball crushingly difficult.

>>738068062
Heirlooms are the only thing that is bad of those things

>>738075778
>every class can do everything
>every new raid release invalidates all the previous raid tiers
>super streamlined questing where it's pretty much a handheld guided tour through each zone
>"old school wow charm and feel"
lol

>>738075607
ok lets test that:
loch modan - at the ogres maybe? but how would you stop low level players wandering into a bunch of level 63 elites
feralas - could work with the naga island to the south
tanaris - caverns of time but thats just a copout
ungoro - maybe deep inside the central volcano but that would just be another molten core...
hillsbrad - unlikely
1kn - another valley edge place like the wyverns
now do this for the remaining 35 zones and make sure you dont tread on pre-existing content but if you have to then good luck integrating it
and now consider that you need to give every single one of these subzones some content, material, item or other unique thing to justify its existence and compel players to travel there

also what >>738075674 said
people would not have paid tbc's box price just to have subzones injected in everywhere

>>738075818
>force people to level 10 extra levels each expac
If everything just stayed at level 60, not only would gear scaling spiral out of control, but new players would have a massive mountain to climb before they can see the newest content. And what happened with the final raid of vanilla? Less than 1% of the playerbase even saw the inside of the instance. That's not good, anon.

>>738075218
You can make density expansions that fill the world, make new raids in the existing world make tunnels ndergorund, shit top of moutnains, islands that are bigger than they look on the maps, make pvp , conquest shit like warcraft 2, arenas but actually fun with the public etc, there always plenty to do. make rexisting instances bigger like BRD, shit in blackrock in general. shove stuff in the sands of time thingy so you still access it through kalimdor. maybe take more time to do the expansions and make them higher quality and slow down? Improve existing content/indtances, refine bosses, loot, scripts add corridors, floor, optional places...

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>>738075783
>It makes the world feel smaller
This one isnt true at all. They went through a crazy amount of effort to put little set pieces and areas for you to see while on a flightpath that help make the world feel bigger and more fleshed out than in actually is.

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>>738074072
>Stay bad while I get 2300 in Arena and use that gear to run around the world with my arena partner ganking people

>>738069475
All of those things are bad.

>>738075906
make them instantly lvl maximum so they dont have a massive mountain before the latest content

>>738075970
>They went through a crazy amount of effort to put little set pieces and areas for you to see while on a flightpath
If by "crazy amount of effort" you mean......literally 3 or 4 of these "set pieces" in the entire game

figures that a coomer spamming retard doesn't actually play the game

>>738068181
Yes. Actually having to...TALK to people, in an online videogame. And actually having to....TRAVEL places, in an MMO. That's the point of the game.

RDF removes those and turns WoW into a lobbygame by just letting you /afk in town and auto-teleport to dungeons with random strangers that may as well be bots.

>>738075906
I didn't say it should stay at level 60. I said they shouldn't have forced people to level additional 10 levels each time

>>738076008
You're the one who hasnt played the game motherfucker. There are way more than two or three, they're all over the place. You clearly just walk away or alt tab to scroll through social media.

>>738075887
>how would you stop low level players wandering into a bunch of level 63 elites
make a bottleneck and put 2x level 63 guards in front
>maybe deep inside the central volcano but that would just be another molten core
cool idea, and that's off the top of your head. imagine what they could do given the money pumped into tbc. I don't see a problem with repeating what worked with molten core too
>people would not have paid tbc's box price
on top of 2 new races and new raids and dungeons? of course they would. players loved the world of warcraft, not floating islands which the success of classic is a testiment to

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>>738075783
Starting with TBC zones were made to accommodate flying. Meaning you can dismount, go practically anywhere. This is not comparable to taking a boat or a flight path in the main world, between two fixed locations.

>>738076273
But flight paths let you just fly over everything and ignore world pvp and not "engage with the world", therefor they are clearly bad game design and must be removed.

>>738076347
over pre-determined paths you first have to unlock and for a fee. you also can't just click a button when you see someone coming at you and hold space, you have to go to the npc at a certain location. your comparison is forced at best

>>738067274
>Blizzard circle jerking over their shadow hegehog tier OC for an entire expansion
I hated everything about it except Wintergrasp to be honest. That was the best PvP WoW had ever seen and I'm not talking about the half assed re-release or retail BG where the RPGG's don't even fucking work right. Could've been a step in the right direction towards actual RvR but nah Blizzardo decided to be colossal faggots and turn into an anal ouroboros for the next twenty years instead.

>>738076260
>make a bottleneck and put 2x level 63 guards in front
thats literally what the dark portal is you stupid nigger

>>738076347
I know you're being a dishonest retard, but just for fun.
>quest objective surrounded by elite demons
With flight paths
>land in nearest town, have to fight your way into the middle of the demons to reach the quest objective, if on a PvP server have to watch out for enemy faction players wanting to fuck with you
Flying mount
>land on top of the objective, click it, fly out
These two things are so different they might as well be from different universes.

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>>738076347
I know its third-world hours but making a disingenuous argument for your own amusement, when you know its flawed is not a substitute for a personality.

>>738067571
>left the enormous two (2) continents behind in favor of funneling players into tiny Outland
It happened in Vanillas well, that's just how WoW was designed right from the very beginning.
Unlike other MMOs at the time (in Ragnarok Online, low-level mobs could drop BIS items; in Lineage 2, low-level mobs dropped crafting materials that could be useful for high-level players), every single low-level thing in WoW (zones, loot, gear, consumables...) was effectively worthless.
WoW has a great feeling of progression thanks to this, so it's not inherently a bad thing. It's just the way the game was designed.

>>738076554
yeah because going into the 63 level subzone in loch modan would be the same as leaving azeroth behind forever to stay on the endgame floating island. why even bother replying pseud lmao

>>738076773
going into a walled garden of content that lower level players cannot access is the exact same thing that outland did lol???

Asking again because I got no replies the first time:
As a zoomer who never got into WoW, is WoW classic worth it?

>>738075457

The only people that say this never got passed Rag.

>>738067571

100% Unc take but also the correct one. You’re alright anon

>>738076875
anniversary or era?
anniversary is in tbc right now so no one is doing classics raids but it has the added tbc quests and xp rates so its a good starting point
era is raw vanilla with minimal changes (dualspec, boon) but the economy is 7 years old and full of RMT
both will be good to level on first time thoughbeit

>>738073912
Bullshit.

For questing it was fine since you did it once and it was novel.

For raids? Naxx: no vehicles. Ulduar: one vehicle. Crusader: no vehicles. Icecrown: *technically* three, but basically go fuck yourself it's zero. Eye of Eternity: no one did it, but yes it's half-vehicle combat on its one encounter. And Ruby Sanctum whatever noone cares but it's zero.

So the complaints about vehicles seem to be just about the fucking Oculus because you might have to do it half a dozen times to get your best pre-raid, but it had unbelievably easy vehicle combat and it wasn't even a long instance.

>>738076851
no because you still traverse azeroth past lowbies and the world feels alive, not have its endgame players siphoned out to a closed reservation so they can sit in shattrah, tp to orgri to put stuff on AH, then tp back to shattrah once done

>>738076968
>and it wasn't even a long instance.
you clearly never ran Oculus with randoms.

>>738077192
I ran it all the time as healer. Maybe it was a personal problem of yours if you had issues.

anyone has experience with azerothcore? I just want to have a bot questing group and relive classic/tbc/wrath again (was a teenager when wow launched and never really played instances or raids)

>>738077268
you've clearly never played the oculus at all if you think your spec mattered.

>>738067571
You are forgetting TBC biggest sin, the flying mount.

>>738076968
You're ignoring an entire section of the game to suit your narrative.
Every single new PVP activity for Wrath involved vehicleslop.

>>738077528
Noone did anything but Wintergrasp and they only did that for the Vault. PvP was arena, not any of that stuff.

>>738077457
Sure, the instance I ran dozens and dozens of times I apparently never did because you say so.

>>738067571
i'm a certified vanilla andy and i've been messing around on anni tbc. it's dog shit. i don't know why people pine for this expansion. maybe i'm victim of playing tbc for the first time in 2026 but it's so bad compared to vanilla and even i can admit 100+ faults with vanilla
maybe it gets better in later tiers but atm it's just a dog shit mess of pop lust/drums/cd's and win. people are autistic about raid comps but it seems like it doesn't matter at all. people are autistic about heroic comps and it's all easy. i just don't get it, it seems like an expansion designed for people to pat themselves on the back for being big boys and clearing """heroic""" dungeons and afk farming kara
nothing will ever beat going with the boys to a 40 man and cleaving the fuck out everything

>>738076875
Yes, it's worth playing Classic up to level 30, maybe 40. Go Alliance, relocate to Stormwind if you started as dwarf or gnome (don't pick nelf because it will be too hard to get there), level through Elwynn -> Westfall -> Stonetalon -> Wetlands/Duskwood, do a couple runs of Deadmines. At that point you will have experienced the best that WoW has ever had to offer.

>>738077650
>Noone did anything but Wintergrasp and they only did that for the Vault. PvP was arena, not any of that stuff.
Read that argument back to yourself and think for a minute about how retarded you sound.

>>738077650
I mean, you talk like someone who never played the instance, so its an easy assumption to make. although you did say you played "healer" so you might have just been getting carried through like healers usually are and didn't actually pay any attention to what was happening. you're right anon, sorry i was so close minded about that possibility.

>>738076875
If you play on a private server sure

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>>738076875

Since the player base is a fraction of what it was at original release I would say no. Oldfags like me have abandoned the game because we have come to grips that the game will NEVER come close to what it was. I was extremely LUCKY to get into a guild ran by a huge group of EverQuest veterans that carried me all the way to Naxx. Honorable mentions of server firsting everything and having such S tier gear I could one shot everything in PvP besides warriors.

>>738077438
I've used AC for years, I don't have any experience with the playerbot/NPCbot modules though.

People liked lich king cause the game and its lore was still being carried by WC3, everything after that was not wc3 so it sucked.

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>>738072971
Same

Wow: Infinite unknown adventure
BC: Death of pvp
Wotlk: Death of pve
Cata: Death of wow
Wow classic: Same as first with zero adventure or unknown and if you don't follow the meta people will fume at you.

>>738078464
Everything being kinda useless (except for the one outrageously OP) aside, it was lame that both humans and dwarves got DP

>>738067571
This. Though it didn't become bad-bad until Sunwell.
>>738077676
They've been streamlining the fun out of wow since before release so everyone's peak wow was whatever version was live 6 months after you started playing. Some of us are still mad about the end of the Forsaken vs. Paladins from beta.
>>738076875
All throwback instances of WoW unfortunately will forever be 90% people who know everything, but as long as the server has people at your level the content can still be fun.

>>738078652
>if you don't follow the meta people will fume at you.
This is only true of raids and raids in vanilla are dogshit and not worth playing.

>>738079051
Everything in vanilla is dogshit and not worth playing, the only good thing about vanilla wow is the map.

>>738079081
Lowkey true

>>738076875
Ye, but I wouldn't recommend playing on the current servers, TBC is ok but a vanilla fresh is the best way to experience WoW. Everyone rushes anniversary atm and era is full of gdkp gold buyer sweats staying in the cities.


Do not listen to this faggot
>>738077741

kek

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WotLK is my favorite expansion and I will readily admit that it is flawed as fuck

>>738077438
There's a discord server for SPP (single player project) discussion but they also have an azerothcore section. Over there, the recommendation is to use https://github.com/kadeshar/ASP/releases which I've used a little bit, it's been pretty stable for me so far and doesn't have a whole lot of annoying modules already enabled by default which was always my biggest beef with other repacks.

the real reason WoW died with Cata is because they ran out of stuff to pull from Warcraft 3.
W3 was the real center piece of the franchise. WoW was sold on the idea that you would be able to be part of that world, and while at the time it was an amazing feeling, the illusion faded quickly.

>>738078464

Fear Ward made the 3 dwarf priests on my server the most popular healers to bring anywhere.

>>738067274
A lot of it actually began in TBC:
>flying mounts
>xpac in totally new area, leaving Azeroth largely irrelevant
>dailies
>neutered raid sizes
>difficulty levels
>PVP gear beginning to trump raid gear for PVP, though I don't think it was universal in TBC yet (Yes, this is gay. Getting named, "unique" loot from raids felt great in Classic and was rewarding in part because of how useful that gear was in all facets of the game. I don't have an issue with PVP gear being good, but I don't think it should be the best option.)
I'm sure there's stuff I forgot. Wrath brought its own shit to the pile, but TBC really kicked things off.

>>738082007
>PVP gear beginning to trump raid gear for PVP
why should pvp gear not be the best for pvp?

>>738076875
If you find a good private server, yes. Turtle was the most vanilla feeling WoW experience I've had since 2005 (I got into it late), and it was because of the playerbase there. Classic lacks the same feeling of actual community and implements some absolutely horrendous, anti-vanilla changes (Layering being the biggest offender by far) and is also riddled with bots. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what the good private server options are now if you want something vanilla or vanilla+.

>>738076347
>>738075783
>>738075474
cope and seethe harder tranny

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>>738082168

>>738067571
>PvE and PvP got seperated, as they should be
>raids finally became good
>people could finally play their class the way they wanted to instead of being forced into exactly one playstyle per class (and people had the audacity to call vanilla an rpg)
Vanilla was unplayable dogshit. Also
>oh no i have to pull my weight now instead of getting carried, that sucks
You're fucking cancer.

>>738067274
lfd is the worst thing to happen to wow

>>738082007
>PVP gear beginning to trump raid gear for PVP, though I don't think it was universal in TBC yet (Yes, this is gay. Getting named, "unique" loot from raids felt great in Classic and was rewarding in part because of how useful that gear was in all facets of the game. I don't have an issue with PVP gear being good, but I don't think it should be the best option.)
Eh, this isn't a big deal. I think the only class that really benefits much from PVP to PVE is enh shamans. Meanwhile, almost every single class wants to wear SOME raid gear in pvp.

>>738082313
rather; why should players who only want to pvp be forced to play pve content just to remain viable?

>>738082641
>retoilets unironically defend class homogenization
grim. whats the point of having different class if they can all do the same thing and have no real niche?

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Death Knights were too overpowered

>>738071319
>90% of the enormous two continents were totally irrelevant at endgame.
a ton of zones had unique drops that made them contested.

>>738086861
in tbc? no

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>>738083396
Players who only want to pvp should pick a different genre. This is the biggest problem with mmos, people who don't like what mmos demanding that mmos should stop being mmos. Why the fuck would you play an mmorpg if you only care about serious competitive pvp? Do you complain if an fps doesn't let you spend all of your time meleeing people? It's so fucking insane that this entire genre was held hostage by and then killed by people who fundamentally do not even like it.

>>738067274
>many of the issues players have with cata began with WotLK.
I'm fine living with those issues since WotLK is the "finale" of the franchise. TBC feels like a finished game with an unfinished story, while Vanilla feels like an unfinished game entirely.
The reboot (Cata and everything after it) is pointless, but brings a handful of good things that can be ported over to a custom Wrath server.

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>>738067274
>many of the issues players have with cata began with WotLK.
TBC*
wotlk still sucks though. There isn't a good wow expac.

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wotlk had the most fun version of every class and the most replayability. there is no reason to raidlog in wotlk because theres too much to do. it also had the best raids too in general and the best quests

>>738067274
Truke, cata almost saved the game until wrath babies quit en masse because they couldn't afk in raids and get free loot while also larping about being "elite" players

>>738087965
>wotlk had the most fun version of every class
lol
Yeah bro I love having to spam ice lance for 10 expansions in a row, such good design

>>738088023
>cata almost saved the game
Until people played it

>>738067274
>Despite being widely considered to be one of if not the best wow expansion
Because most players began with Wrath. Wrathbabies if you will. Vanilla players correctly understood that TBC was the beginning of the end and Wrath was just further down the spiral. When they got bought we all saw the writing on the wall and everything we said was going to happen has happened over time. They're now selling housing cosmetics in the cash shop for more than the base game.

>>738085836
I still remember buckling down during the end of tbc and focusing on finally getting to the level cap on my rogue so I could pvp with my druid friend. I finally got to what I recall being the minimum level you could be to go to the tbc areas (58?) during wotlk release week and it was insane. They had so many tools it blew my mind, self healing, a spell that could physically pull you and I wanna say a self rez that turned them into a temporary ghoul? Also water walking... I remember actually killing one only for him to rez on the spot and finish me off as a zombie. After the first day I was so damn glad I could just stealth around those assholes.

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>>738067274
The problems began with TBC
>PVE raid focus
>20man
>PVP arena focus
>Class homogenization
>Tube dungeons
>Flying
WOTLK took the turd that was TBC and just made it slightly less shitty and more casual friendly

>>738087962
>There isn't a good wow expac.
TBC is a better vanilla. Saying TBC sucks would mean WoW sucks. Which is kind of true, but pretending vanilla is better than TBC or even wrath is pure cope.

cata is better than wotlk in everything but setting/story
>DKs fixed
>better class design all around
>better dungeons and raids
>better questing
>better pvp (debatable I guess)
>transmog

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>>738067274
The beginning of the end was when Blizz gave Blood Elves to the Horde instead of giving High Elves to the Alliance in TBC

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For people who didn't actually play these on release, just know that by the end of TBC people were calling it dogshit and couldn't wait for wotlk. At the end of wotlk people were calling it dogshit and couldn't wait for cata. Etcetera etcetera. We call this the wow cycle and it continues to this day. The main takeaway is that each expansion made the game worse.

>>738073762
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4QGc06KnBE

>>738088228
>TBC is a better vanilla.
ROFL
Which part? The theme park zones? The linear loot hallway dungeons? Flying mounts that killed the game? Or surely it's farming primals to craft generic stat stick upgrades?

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>>738067571
they hated him because he spoke the truth

>>738088213
>PVE raid focus
Already happened in nearly every major patch of vanilla.
>20man
25 man, but I agree. The scale of the game shrunk with this change and it meant that every raid area after Vanilla always felt less "epic" in scope.
>PVP arena focus
The problem was less with arenas and more about flying mounts. You could have arena and still have pvp elsewhere, but these two factors together really just condensed the scene into one place: where the rewards were strongest.
>Class homogenization
Classes were still hugely distinct in TBC - just as much as Vanilla in fact.
>Tube dungeons
This one doesn't get mentioned enough, and I think it's just because Karazhan has an interesting layout. But going from masterpieces like BRD to hallway heroics was a kick in the balls. And it only became worse with time...
>Flying
TBC's worst feature.

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>>738088336

>>738088628
>The problem was less with arenas and more about flying mounts. You could have arena and still have pvp elsewhere
No
Instancing sucks, get it through your head

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>horde ending up becoming the gayest faction after all

>>738088920
Instancing designed around creating a team to join it is fine.

>blood elves on horde
There's no way you can make it make sense, it's just ridiculous
TBC ruined the lore completely

>>738067274
it all began in vanilla

>>738089029
night elves joining the alliance and horde joining undead makes less sense. belves joining the horde because of butthurt over garithos isn't that unreasonable

>>738068181
you dont get it do you
being denied from groups because you are a "suboptimal" class is pure enjoyment VVVVGHHHH

>>738089194
>belves joining the horde because of butthurt over garithos isn't that unreasonable
It's completely unreasonable and stupid and they don't even justify it in game. There shouldn't BE any blood elves left in Azeroth to join the horde.

>>738089229
Imagine showing this guy what the future looked like

>>738088068
It changed the least but they did add deep freeze and brain freeze which added 2 buttons, and not every spec needs to be super involved. So yeah it was the most fun version.

Yeap WoW really fucked up the lore hard trying to contain everything to just 2 factions for its MMO

>>738088023
Wrath players quit with the prepatch talent changes that ruined every class and build. Cata was literally dead before it launched.

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>>738088927
Indeed

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>>738087509
I love when women have a tummy like this :3

>>738089549
Cata had 11m+ subs for the first 6 months of the expansion.

>>738089549
Cata was the fastest selling xpac in its first month.

>>738089448
Fortunately he's dead of old age by now

>>738088414
i never listened to them but it's mostly stuff like suicide silence

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>>738067274

>>738089762
>fingers still visible on his shoulder
kek

>>738081527
I'll look into that, thank you

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>>738067274
Blizzard was killing wow from day one

>>738073569
Wouldn't Storm Peaks and Icecrown be a huge pain in the ass to get around if you couldn't fly

>>738089926
Those two zones are designed around flying mounts, yeah. You can do the intro (K3) part of Storm Peaks without a flying mount but after that you pretty much need one. I don't know if the other hubs are literally unreachable without one or if they just cut down the travel time by a lot.

Vanilla is the way WoW is meant to be played. Original, uninflated stats with percentages instead of gay ass critical strike and hit ratings.

>>738089852
I hate Fallout 3 for making these ESL "memes" popular.

>>738089762
a picture says more than a thousand words

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>>738090079
>a picture says more than a thousand words
Indeed

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>>738090223

>>738090223
>Chris Evans in Fantastic Four (2005)
>Chris Evans in Captain America Civil War

>>738090223
to this day i'm amazed how good the vanilla artstyle was, they did so much with so little
shame they fired so many of the vanilla devs once it shipped and then mike morefag and cuck metzen ruined the game

>>738067274
Fuck Wrath for adding raid difficulties. That shit completely killed my desire to do endgame MMO content. Nothing is worse than busting your ass through progression just to end up on the first boss again at a higher setting with higher ilvl gear. Completely destroys the illusion of sieging and progressing through an MMO. Once the raid boss is killed at any difficulty the raid is fucking over. And because of the loot system that means there's no reason to ever skip the n-1 difficulty so your experience with the raid will always be ruined by the time you get to 'hard mode'

>>738067274
Ah yes, daily quests being added in the Trial of the Crusader. That's when it all went to shit.

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>>738090487
Raid difficulties don't get enough hate. It was another way of stripping the rpg from mmorpg, it completely ruins the idea of slowly progressing through a cool area. It makes it feel less like an actual real place. Some places in the world should feel dangerous, they should feel like they're hard to get through, the actual gameplay should contribute to the atmosphere.

>>738082956
Yes, but my point is that TBC started the trend. It absolutely wasn't at its worst then.

>>738083396
Tough shit then. Raid gear being the pinnacle in PVP is cool and gives further purpose to the named, unique raid stuff beyond just "DPS meter go up"

>>738089029
You can definitely make it make some sense. The undead are the BElves direct neighbors. Blood elves were hit hard by the Scourge and lost many of their numbers to being raised as undead. Sylvanas, their former ranger general, leads the Undead. Not only would having their neighbors as an ally and buffer state from the alliance be a good thing, having her on the other side could be very bad with all the intel she would have.

>>738091135
>Yes, but my point is that TBC started the trend. It absolutely wasn't at its worst then.
Rank 14 weapons were the best in slot for raiders for almost the entirety of vanilla wow pve. Making PVE players slave away in the PVP mines to get the best performance seems like a worse situation overall.
Also, there's nothing in vanilla wow that compares to the "oh shit" factor of a rogue with war glaives in pvp.

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>>738090484
Don't even talk to me about Blizzards questionable artstyle choices over the years

>>738091618
>Rank 14 weapons were the best in slot for raiders for almost the entirety of vanilla wow pve.
no they weren't unless you're playing vanilla without progressive itemization

lol

>>738067274
Truth

>>738075276
>They made Chromie into a tranny
That kind of shit is why people hate them

>>738075474
>>738075783
lol retards

>>738075567
No I've predominantly played a warrior. If anyone has the right to bitch about unwanted PVP in old WoW, it's me.
But flying mounts are still gay. If you play on a PVP server, you should be prepared for all that entails.

>>738067274
The best expansions are TBC and Legion.

>>738067571
>it began in TBC
dear god
>there's more
no...