>>738117623
There is a reason why i'm not playing online games at all. Vidya time is "me time" and i want to play a game at my own pace. That means if i want to stand around and look at a chair for 10 minutes i will do just that and i don't want anyone to tell me to hurry up. Just like i don't want anyone in my game that impedes my progress. But most importantly i don't want the game(or the players) punishing me for playing my favorite class fantasy. If i want to play a sword/board warrior i don't want anyone to tell me i should switch to axes because they are just better or that ARs suck ass and i need to use SMGs.

Besides all that being EU is a curse. You have to play with everyone from Ireland to Moscow and from Finland to Morocco. People either don't have a mic, if they do they don't speak english and if they do speak english it's basically incomprehensible gibberish.

>no mic at all and probably blasting music so completely oblivious
>open mic he doesn't know is open
>open mic he doesn't care is open
>voice activation that is too sensitive and picks up the fan
>voice activation that is too strict and constantly cuts off
>doesn't speak english and starts talking over in his language
>blasting music through the mic but never talks

I'd love to get into another MMO but the communities that tend to play MMOs are not people i want to spend any time with. Both, the sweaty parsers and the 50 year old schizo cat ladies.

>sweats are le bad because they're better at the game than me
Meanwhile the "sweats" are the only ones that actually stick around and support the game while casuals get pissy and leave at the first moment something doesn't go their way.

>>738117678
>I'd love to get into another MMO but the communities that tend to play MMOs are not people i want to spend any time with
I never got into an mmo because of this + I don't want to pay a subscription fee. But always thought it would be fun and a makeshift solution to being a shutin

Remember when we used to shit on casuals?
Now you have OP and people defending them
Really makes you think

>>738117623
Easily
Stop the sweats from playing against casuals

>>738117623
Isn't that what MMR was intended to address.

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>>738117623
>multiplayer

>>738117730
You forgot to mention how they then complain about nobody playing the game after driving the casuals away because getting noobstomped is not fun or educational.

>>738118163
This is why every competitive game has matchmaking now, and it's genuinely awful in almost every game, so it's not that simple.

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>>738117623
We introduce SBMM.

>>738118247
It is that simple, sweats will often drop on purpose to smurf

>>738118328
In other words, matchmaking solves nothing.

>>738118351
Exactly which leads back to this >>738118163

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We introduce EOMM.

Dedicated servers already solved this problem 3 decades ago.

>>738118380
Name a single game that uses this.

server browsers

>>738118204
I'm confused, are the sweats supposed to throw games so that the gamer dads and redditors can feel better about themselves and not leave? Explain to me.

>>738117623
Do the inverse of the Street Fighter approach. Make the game we intend to make from the beginning, and when the sweats start pushing out the casuals, make an un-turbo mode to level the playing field more. If it's a fighting game or a smash clone, make it so there's more startup and endlag, more knockback, less hitstun, and make cancelling less viable. That way you give casuals an environment in which they can enjoy the game while the sweats get to have their closed garden.

>>738118395
every single multiplayer shooter made after, idk, like 2014 or something

>>738118393
99% of games run on dedicated servers now you tech illiterate retard.
What you mean is community servers (Dedicated or otherwise).
Also, people like balanced games. The only people that don't are shitters who need to pub stomp because of their fragile egos.

>>738118380
isn't this just forced 50

>>738117623
Dedicated servers instead of matchmaking. The heyday of TF2 basically.

>>738118452
>source? My microwave of course!

>>738118452
I asked you for one and you failed to name a single one. I accept your concession.
Conspiritards completely raped and gaped once again.

>>738117730
>Meanwhile the "sweats" are the only ones that actually stick around and support the game
I only need to buy a game to support it

>>738117623
ban the top 5% of players every week.

>>738118395
HotS quickmatch

>>738118505
based

>>738118528
Proof?

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>>738117623
Who is the sweatiest nation when it comes to multiplayer games and why is it the Aussies?
Like the cunts are a lot of fun but christ, fucking EVERYONE plays like they're in the 5th match of an e-sports tournament final.

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Commence your seething, conspiritards. Your master commands it. You WILL be upset over being raped and gaped.

>>738118528
Can't have been that good since it keeps matching me against sweaty 5-stacks.

Is this thread about how ARC desperately needs a PVE mode?

>>738117623
>people who actually like a product will stick around for it until it runs its natural course and disappears
>this is somehow a bad or unnatural thing to """gamers"""
So when did (you) find out you were retarded?

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>>738117623
Promise to solve the matchmaking in the sequel then just sell the same game with the same problems again. Repeat x100.

>>738117623
Yeah going to need to hire my consulting firm to solve this one for you, sorry. Send us an email.

>>738117678
>>738118052
>I'd love to get into another MMO but the communities that tend to play MMOs are not people i want to spend any time with.
Most MMOs have been essentially single-player games with an active economy for many years now anyway.
If you want an MMO where you dont interact with the community at all, play Ragnarok Online on a populated private server, Runescape, Albion or Eve.
WoW is solo-ish, but you have to use raid finders and dungeon finders to group up for some compulsory shit.
Avoid XI and XIV

>>738118548
I don't think it's good, it just does that
The game wants to make you lose as much as you win if you don't queue with a team
>>738118584
I didn't say it was good, I think that anon was wrong

>>738117730
Wrong, the sweats play the game only as long as there's cannon fodder to do cool 360 noscopes against, then they fuck off to the next latest streamer bait. If devs cater to the sweats, the process goes even faster.

>>738118629
So you don't know what you're talking about.

>>738118412
>I'm confused
Figures. Let me tell you a secret: There's actually a middle ground between total domination and losing on purpose.
And since sweats always claim that they want noobies to learn, what about just going easy on them? You don't need to let them win, but you could try to do some educational moves. Attack with only one unit, or only use grabs. If you're so superior you should be able to win anyway, but at the same time you can teach and help them improve.
Of course that's not what sweats want, they just want to win, and actually teaching people how to win might possibly, potentially, in the far future, diminish their chances at winning.

>>738117623
Don't cater to sweats.
Make a fun casual game, create a sweat mode, rebalance stuff for the sweat mode but don't alter for the casual mode.

Also allow community run servers, they create the types of games people want so it's not randoms just making each other miserable playing the game "wrong"

>>738118625
>with an active economy
Not really, some games force a few crafted essentials but you'll never get top-tier equipment from crafting. If you just join a guild or similar group, you can avoid economies almost entirely.
The "active economy" is something they pretend games have to bait the people who don't want to raid/etc. and only craft all day into thinking they're a valued player.

>>738118709
Believe me or don't
that's on you

>>738117623
You make your game unbalanced, or balanced around RNG.

random crits for example, they balance the playing field when you don't play "for fun".

>>738118726
>Of course that's not what sweats want
Correct, square up, shape up and shut up.
I don't give a fuck about the lowly drivel of cattle, get robust or get robusted.

>>738118481
>muh terminology autism
Everybody knows what's meant by "dedicated servers" you fucking sperg

>>738117623
Punish players for being better than me.

>>738118659
>It was real in my mind
Kek. Anyways, playing against good players is how you get better. Stop throwing a hissy fit every time you get destroyed im a game.

>>738118052
>>738117678
I play(ed) a few mmos, but despite of that, mostly as solo games.

>>738117623
TF2 did it.
Basically make the competitive mode appeal to so little people that no one else wants to play it. Despite compfags ruining casual and valve could have made it so that comp compositions only apply to comp, casual is still 99% of the playerbase.

>>738118876
I think it's mostly just the nature of the game
This sort of thing just doesn't work with fighting games

>>738118943
It's actually a balance thing.

>>738118971
having a team based game is different than 1 on 1

>>738119002
nah

>>738117623
This is just a symptom of live service.
The only way to solve it is through sequels instead of updates.

>>738117623
Dedicated servers.
Great firewall of India/Russia/China.
Drop-in, drop-out gameplay with voice chat and autobalancing.
Game modes with far more players than were intended for real balance.
Auto-hide by default any server with 5v5, 6v6 or just fewer players than the game is intended for so that you can cut out the servers where people delude themselves into thinking that they've boiled down the essence of the game into a balanced comp game.

Getting beaten by sweats occasionally needs to be "just a thing that occasionally happens", not the expected outcome.
>>738118180
>>738118262
MMR is just a sunk cost number for people to focus on during randomized matchmaking so that they direct their hate at the playerbase instead of the game trying to train them to play more gacha.
Matchmaking does not respect your time and it does not respect your desire to have fun.
>>738118482
Forced 50 does not exist. The truth is that all of these fancy names EOMM, SBMM, etc. are just fancy names to distract people from the fact that these games have no real way to put together a consistent team.
Forced 50 is just the natural consequence of the game having 2 possible outcomes, thus resulting in a balanced split between the two due to random matchmaking.

in mmorpgs and similar genres you have to
1) make it so the game is EASY. All the classic MMORPGs that destroyed peoples' lives were piss easy to execute in and people STILL fucked them up. EverQuest, FFXI, DAOC etc all fucking braindead to actually play your class. But that's important because it means you actually get to bring everyone. The hardcores and the casuals can get along because the casual just needs to be told what to do.
2) Make the game punishing. This might seem at odds with #1 but something can be relatively easy but also painful for screwing up. This makes people want to increase their odds of success by socializing. Social bonds are how you ensure the long term success of an online game if you can't have world-class gameplay (which 99% of games won't have)
3) keep the pace of updates relatively quick. HardxCores will constantly have new things to experiment with and casuals will do whatever casuals do.

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>>738117623
Just bring back dedicated servers

If you desperately have to prove yourself in an online environment you are 1 step away from going to thailand.

>>738117623
Real answer: by regulating the relative populations of different player psycho-archetypes, or at least people's exposure to them in the case of the game not being "open" in terms of it's interaction (you'd instead need to force / bias interactions in a specific way match making wise).

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>>738117623
It's so fucking simple how is this even a question

Add in a bunch of randomness like your hits can crit for 1000000% damage
That way through the power of luck casuals can beat sweats sometimes and they don't fuck off

Matchmaking fixes that
>B-But I hate playing vs other sweats
Not my problem

>>738117730
The majority of sweats are sociopaths and only stick around as long as there is fresh meat to butcher to give them the hits of brain chemicals they desire
Once they don't have any more seals to club and they burn out while cannibalizing themselves the game dies a slow death as they move to new feeding grounds in search of new prey

A sweat is not only someone trying to win, it is someone who is going to do EVERYTHING they possibly can to win. Sweats are the ones exploiting dev oversights or using the most broken meta shit just to have an edge on the opposition. This leads not only to less experienced people getting curbstomped repeatedly and not having fun, but for the entire experience to be stale as everyone uses the exact same shit every single time. And then when devs do something about it (nerf overperforming weapons etc.), the usual response is bitching and moaning how they are infringing on the fun of the players.

The only way I can see this being solved is segregating the playerbase, and the easiest way to do that is dedicated servers.

>>738117623
Does this represent the life cycle of a single game or the progression of a franchise?

Not a problem if it's a single game, the alternative is an even faster death. But maybe a separation between the casuals and the hardcore could help a bit.
If it's a franchise evolution, the game devs simply need to not forget about the casuals when they make the next games.

>>738117623
Community hosted servers

>>738118180
Yes but that was before suits realized you could manipulate it to instead create a system where a dark pattern of controlled wins and losses keeps people addictively playing the game while increasing mtx spend per player, especially when new players are matched with paypigs using the hot new premium skins and weapons and enticed to spend.

>>738118380
how does it work? matchmaking in games is no longer about skill matching?

>>738117623
Make singleplayer games.

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>trying to play custom gamemode
>there are now sweaty tryhard niggers everywhere
seriously who the fuck is tryharding deathrun? who are these fuckheads sweating over 24/7 dust2?

>>738119309
Made up bullshit. Games die because the population becomes too small. Sweats make up a very small portion of any given fanbase. Casuals are just manchildren that get upset because the game didn't roll over for them.

>>738119646
People with +5k hours. You know, players so good that even them playing casually is too much for most of the server.

>>738119646
>NOOOOOOOO STOP TRYING TO BE GOOD AT SOMETHING!! I JUST PLAY FOR FUN!!!!
But wining is fu-
>NOOOOO THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!!!!

>>738117623
Just stick with your vision and ignore 90% of all community feedback, but keep assuring your fans that you "read all feedback". Sure, they will get mad and say "developers are narcissists" etc., but they will still keep playing the game. On the other hand, if you cater to casuals or sweats because of pressure, you will chase away half your audience.

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>>738119743
>game isnt fun unless i win!!!

>>738119743
Winning is fun if there is effort involved. If it's just effortlessly stomping people, it gets old very quickly.

>>738117623
Just mix in some pity bots so casuals can feel like they won sometimes.

>>738119813
Yes, if people lose then they'll eventually drop the game, which then leads to a dead game. Shocking, I know.

Anything else, RETARD?

>>738119864
embarassing take
this will be my last reply

>>738119826
That's how it is for white people. Don't underestimate the capacity of brownoids to be satisfied with only the feeling of superiority.

>>738117623
This literally never happens, in fact it's usually the opposite

>>738119864
It's not about losing, it's not even having a fighting chance. If the games were close, the losses wouldn't make them feel like playing the game is pointless.

>>738119813
Yes, that is how casuals think.

>>738117623
Just make the game somehow punish you for trying too hard

>>738120093
That's how the world works, child.

>>738118863
I dunno whether it's my age or the modern games, I used to play cs1.6 when I was young and didn't mind gitting gud, the community kinda encouraged it (or, at least the server I played on did), I ended up into map making and all that shit. Nowadays it just feels like mindless grind for nothing. Did I grow up?

>>738117678
fpbp

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>>738117623
by hitting the aim trainer

it's not too late uncs. you won't lose major biomechanic functionality until you hit your late 40s

>>738119693
I agree. The problem is that in a match it takes just a single sweater to sour the experience for all casuals on the enemy team. That is why only a small portion of sweats can have such an impact on a games playerbase.

>>738117623
Give everyone a public elo rating, and let players choose their lobbies.

>>738120438
Aim trainers do not reflect real in-game situations at all. There's way more visual data you have to parse through in an actual vidya situation than there is in the trainer where everything is nicely gridded and color coded, not to mention that most often you see these trainers being played in a way where they do not have to take their own movement into account at all.

They're good for building muscle memory, but that's about it.

>>738119125
>Dedicated servers.
Aka community-hosted servers + barest ability to modify the game (making levels, models, textures, etc...) will grow your game's lifespan several-fold. However AAA studios want the precisely opposite of that, a pipeline of disposable games.
>Great firewall of India/Russia/China.
Ironically, the most kino modded servers that I saw were being hosted/developed by russians and ukranians. Sysops were very chill dudes, however that can't be said about your typical slavic shithole player.
>Drop-in, drop-out gameplay with voice chat and autobalancing.
I'll add to this: ability to favorite servers so you can revisit them. This will naturally create small, tightly-knit communities instead of endless faceless rounds of SBMM/EOMM.
>Game modes with far more players than were intended for real balance.
Unfortunately this requires coders to be skilled enough to make netcode not shit itself when more than 10 players are on the same server.
>Auto-hide by default any server with 5v5, 6v6 or just fewer players
Probably should give them a sort of tag that you can use to filter them out (or specifically look for them if you're into that) instead.
I just realized that all of this is basically what valve have in their games.

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>>738117623
.

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>>738120978

>>738118262
>pic
Have a way to further humiliate sweats if they happen to lose against casuals.

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>>738120812
aim trainers isolate and focus in on the mouse control part of aim, learning how models move in a game is the trivial part of aim. and i say "trivial" because if you can get your mouse control to a point where you are able to point it precisely how you want then you have already reached top 0.01% of aimers and that is complete dreamland for most people who just want to cut their teeth so they are not complete pushovers in their lobbies

>>738118625
>Avoid [...] XIV
why? xiv may as well be a solo game with all the cutscene watching you'll be doing. and when the game actually has you do a dungeon you can do it with npcs who go at your own pace
besides, if anon doesn't want to engage with other people, xiv is the best place to never engage with the faggots you share the game with

>>738117623
This is not a problem in single player games.

>>738121415
How is it not? The normal mode in single player games is getting stupider every passing year. And it's kind of a crapshoot if games even have a proper balanced hard mode, most of the time it's just an afterthought with devs turning enemies into damage sponges and turning the game into a slog, which makes you not want to pick hard mode to begin with.

>>738121415
Shmups died from it.

>>738121776
Shmups died cause they all play the same. Rigid genre with no flexibility.

>>738117623
If being good at a game makes you sweaty you're probably an american.

Simple, really. Just handicap high skill players by putting fewer players on their team.

>>738121415
yes it is
you start out as a green circle, i.e. a completely green circle
you get good and thus become a sweaty (green circle instantly becomes red)
the game stops being fun so you quit (pop)

>>738121613
Idk I don't really feel that in the games I play.
Even on the highest difficulty setting in Ultrakill, everything still feels like it's glass canon. If you know your combos and how to utilise right weapons in right situations you can easily kill anything. The enemies just get patterns which are more difficult to avoid and get faster, that's a good way of making hard difficulties imo. Although Fraud should be rebalanced for Brutal imo.
Rabbit and steel feels similiar. The higher difficulty the more difficult patterns get and damn it feels nice to be able to dodge all that spam when you get gud. That's what this game is all about after all. Same thing for touhou.
Noita has one of the most interesting takes. It's rare when you see a game made all about accumulating knowledge, where you are not just rewarded by solving some puzzle or getting lore/ending, but you actually can become god-like if you know how to exploit all the mechanics.

>>738121776
New touhou keeps getting made though.

>>738121271
By visual data I mean having to quickly and effectively process what you are seeing and identifying what you are supposed to be aiming at. Most arcade shooters (like the one in your webm) go out of their way to clearly separate the player models from the surrounding scenery. But in a game like, let's say Battlefield, there's a shit ton more visual noise you have to parse through to even locate your targets and keep track of them.

Aim trainers do nothing to prepare you for that aspect of shooters, though admittedly it is not something that is present in every shooter.

>>738122364
What if I play sweat games to become a sweat.

>>738117623
You can't. Casuals naturally move on from games after their honeymoon period.

>>738122503
shhh just let anon post his stupid webms where he's dunking on some literal kids

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>>738122503
>But in a game like, let's say Battlefield, there's a shit ton more visual noise you have to parse through to even locate your targets and keep track of them.
readability is not a component that relates to aiming, it relates to game design. in BFV you have contextual hi contrast outlines because the game is marred with readability issues, maybe not as extreme as in bf6's case, but it's a seperate issue from mouse control. besides that it goes without saying that you need to have gamesense to do well, but aim trainers aren't there to teach you gamesense, they are there so you stop losing gunfights because you fumbled the bag so badly in the most important thing in shooter games, being able to have your gun on target when you shoot.

>>738122594
You are blaming casuals, when sweats created a problem.
Its just modern mind virus that every single video game even single player ones needs to be an event people can bond over, just like modern resident evil. Dedicated servers already solved the sweat problem, just like the solution to this urge to use a game as a social platform was solved by MMOs. Every single time its just reinventing the wheel, if its not broke, don't fix it.
If I'm a casual I'm not going to compete with a childless 40 y.o who farms ingame tokens to pay his rent. 20 years ago this wasn't a problem because le epic 1% tigole didn't affect me at all. However the problem is there is a shitton of those now, as there entire ruskie and chinese farms. An entire faction died out because of minmaxing, and now the sweats are crying in their deadass game.

>>738117623
Replace casuals with Canada and sweats with poojeets and it's real

>>738117623
Why is this a problem. Not every game is meant to be played forever and ever. Its entertainment, you don't re-read the same book every other month for years either. Neither do you watch the same movie thousands of times. Only autists want to fixate on a single game forever.

>>738120812
It might be true that they don't reflect the exact ingame situation, but they allow you to practice a skill without all the extra noise and pressure.

>>738117623
tradable skins and cases, works for CS

>>738117623
Nerf sweats stats without informing them, and gaslight the fuck out of them if they pick up on it.

>>738117730
Sweats get pissy when they play against other sweats though.

>>738117623
get rid of public ownership and investment into companies

>>738117623
Marathon thread?

>>738123303
the sweats are not the problem, imo it's the devs that constantly tweak shit to the gameplay and make wrong decisions that directly aid the sweats

>>738118395
Overwatch. Coincidently, almost everyone agrees Overwatch has atrocious matchmaking.

>>738117623
False dichotomy. Neither casual nor sweat is the community that makes a game thrive

>>738117623
fix? goyim it is working flawlessly
how else are the poor poor suits supposed to get you to buy the next installment in the franchise™ if the previous one doesn't die off

>>738117623
literally statistically impossible nigga how are you getting shit on by 1% of the population 100% of the time

>>738118510
Not in 2026.

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>multiplayer game has rank system
>if your rank gets high enough you end up as a squad leader by default
>don't really want the responsibility so stop playing the game

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>>738117678

The solution is to just play pve games and avoid pvp ones. OP pic is why marathon is dying on its ass while something like Helldivers 2 is still going strong even if people complain.

>>738119864
I lied
You are a fucking retard and I hope you get shot out in the streets for this post

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I don't get it
what is a sweat in this context?

>>738127835
A person who plays super seriously in a competitive manner

>>738119864
name one non-assymetrical game that didn't have half of the players lose in every match

>>738127872
but if the game is competitive, what is the alternative? are the called casuals supposed to just fidget their thumbs and toss a coin for their win condition?

>>738117623
You give players the power to choose how they want to play the game
People get upset because you create a system designed to hold them hostage, forcing them to play with and against people they don't want to under threat of ban
Compulsory matchmaking is cancer

>>738117678
it took me nearly a decade of playing league of legends to realize this. I just tried to play it again earlier this year and it physically repulsed me now. Roblox is unironically better for online gaming because Roblox games have no commitment.

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>>738117730
Sweats eventually turn the game into a clique because no new player would be able to compete with them. Take Quake, HL1 before the anniversary, or some fightan, for example, where if someone suddenly decides to play it online - 99% chance they wouldnt be able to do a single step because the only 10 people playing it are hypersonic autists who frag you the moment you spawn or infinitecombo you into the corner with no ability to dodge.

I understand that this falls under a "Skill issue" problem, but its still not healthy for a games playersphere anyway, nor does it help that it feeds into the fact that new gamers only play new slop instead of something that was actually made to be good, because a bunch of overskilled retards rape everyone daring to check the game out away and no one wins.
There should be a skill ceiling to keep complete faggots out, but a few dedicated retards reaching the top of it will absolutely shatter the skill floor.

>>738127956
No anon, it’s people at the top that play it super sweaty
They’re also the ones that complain about playing against sweaty players

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>>738127956
They want rubber band randomish out comes like mario kart because they lack the skills to win purely based on their own merits.

unless youre at the bottom of the food chain youre always gonna have people to farm off and people who farm you
op pic is retarded because its a circle instead of a pyramid as if sweats would ever be the majority of the playerbase

>>738128136
I have no idea what people in this thread are complaining about then, I still don't even get what people mean by sweats or playing sweaty or whatever, do you mean cheating or something?

let people enjoy things except being good and winning

>>738117678
wow you typed that really fast

>>738128270
It’s a pretty self explanatory term anon
Maybe people that want to enter the competitive scene is more understandable
Like they don’t play for fun

>>738118528
HotS QM uses total MMR for the team. The only issues is that the algorithm barely wait 30s and then gives up trying to get better results.
You'll get a team with a guy with 3k mmr, then 2000, 2000, 1800, 1800 and the same thing in the other team.
t. used to be in the top 20 QM eu rankings

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>>738117623

>>738128270
They mean tryhards and nolifers.

>>738128135
it's faggots like you that need to be gate-kept at all costs

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>>738117623
TF@ does that with Random crits, which allows even the lowliest noob to stand against the oldest tryhard by pure chance and a little bit of aim to hit consecutive shots.

But thats a talk that competitive groomers dont want you to have because it breaks their agenda.

>>738128510
>TF@
Fucking hell i could swear there was a 2 in there.

>>738128341
Being good and winning is different than trying to be the best
Picture going to play a round of tennis for a bit of fun and then Raphael Nadal comes in to play against you seriously

>>738118395
dota2
LeagueOfLegends
CSGO/2
R6Siege
ARCRaiders

Probably just about every major team based multiplayer title with matchmaking. Skill isnt even the majority of what determines your placement in these games.
Id guess only fighting games dont do it.

Just to be clear, this isnt speculation. They dont hide it. Every game does it. Just google "{game} matchmaking"
>https://www.vice.com/en/article/arc-raiders-dev-provides-more-details-on-aggression-based-matchmaking-system/
>https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Player_Behavior_Summary
>https://counterstrike.fandom.com/wiki/Matchmaking#Glicko_skill_rating_system

They all call it something different because theres no standardised terminology for "keep players playing" as you can do that in a million differnet ways.

>>738127835
From the context, a 'sweat' sweats - they put a degree of exertion into winning above and beyond the average player.
If we use counter strike as an example. A good way to diagnose a sweat is: do they use external tools? Do they expend effort outside of playing the game itself to improve? Use of aim training programs, map study tools, etc are a good indicator of a sweat.
Important to note that a sweat is not always good at the game. You can have incompetent sweats, just as you can have people who will casually dominate.

>>738119512
They basically rig the matchmaking to ensure that certain people win and lose at certain times to "maximize engagement" and keep people playing. Because the suits realized that if players lose too much they'll stop playing the game and therefore won't buy any in-game skins or other microtransactions, so they "fix" this by making everyone have as close to a 50/50 winrate as possible to maximize the amount of players that stick around. Naturally some people will have to be given forced losses as a result, but that's why they optimize the matchmaking so that you're losing enough to reduce your winrate and give the retards a few free wins now and again, but not losing so much that you stop playing the game.

Activision-Blizzard actually has a patent for this sort of matchmaking, here's an exerpt from how the patented matchmaking system works:
>if a given player has performed poorly during previous game sessions (as determined from historical gameplay information), scoring engine 122 may adjust one or more coefficients for the player such that gameplay becomes easier for the player. for example, if a player has been getting killed at a rate higher than the player's historical rate, scoring engine 122 may dynamically tune a coefficient associated with a match variable related to skill level to match him with easier opponents, higher-skilled collaborative team members, game sessions that are more suited to the player's gameplay style (e.g., a map that favors snipers), and/or other coefficients that can affect the outcome of a match score.

is Roblox the anti-sweat game?

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>>738117623
make a good game.

>>738128563
That would be fucking amazing

>>738127956
A sister term for a "Sweat" is "Tryhard", if that helps.

Basically apex predators of a game that make it worse for everyone, both experienced non-tryhards and new players because they've become perfectly oiled machines of meta and stompstrats, and in turn overpower the biosphere until they are the only creatures left to cannibalize eachother because they were too efficent for the ecosystem. Ones that put the destination (The "WIN" screen") over the journey (Having an actually fun match even if not winning).
If a game is competitive by design, then the term becomes muddy since the main goal of a competitive game is to make everyone a sweat, but its also a problem of many old casual multiplayer games too, especially if they were solved and hyperoptimized over the decades.
In my experience old fighting games are the most susceptible ones to this where they become nigh unplayable if you just want to check them out for a bit of fun years after their prime, as everyone thats still playing them online had already become a failed EVO player.

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>>738127835
>>738127956

Sweats are people who pay more attention and expel more energy in trying to win, casuals are people who spend less energy and attention to win.
The major problem with this paradigm is that the split between these categories are set at arbitrary levels depending plenty of factors.

>>738128668
Games offer services, game companies want people to keep playing because it boosts sales and keeps the game relevant in the zeitgeist.
Sometimes a game has to sacrifice the enjoyment for individuals to make the whole a greater experience for all. This is inevitable for any social phenomena with enough people involved.

Losing is not fun. It feels bad. There are a few situations where you can have a "good loss" but those usually are situations where you still get some kind of reward - different to a total loss. Most people don't ENJOY losing, they'll cope with some losses so long as they are still either getting something out of it or they're still winning SOME of the time.
So if you want your PvP game to live for a long time, you either need a system to make it so even the worst players can get a win often enough to feel good, or you need to give players something that ISN'T WINNING to enjoy.
For the first thing there's matchmaking, skill based or engagement based; there's also things that make the game less skill dependent. For the second, there's unlocks, separate gameplay goals, things to work towards that don't need you to be actually good.

It's amazing the amount of convoluted nonsense companies will spend time and money create, to solve a problem that never existed until they all collectively removed dedicated servers.

>>738117623
SBMM

>>738117623
introduce gacha element to your game. Cater to gamer dads with 3 kids who can only play 1 hours a day.

>>738117623
You can't stop it
The casuals are going to leave sooner or later because most people want to play more than one game
Best you can do is either slow the flow or find ways to inject new casuals to keep their numbers up
That's how DBD is still trucking along despite being a pile of hot garbage
numbers dipping? Better break glass on another ip for a casual injection

>>738129324
The funny thing is that they don't even work, because they only measure the immediate risk of a player closing the game and completely ignore the long-term influence that manipulating the outcome of every game has on player retention

>>738128920
I'd argue that Fortnite is probably one of the least sweaty games I've played.
It uses all the techniques I mention in ,
>>738129231
Both in levelling the playing field through random chance, matchmaking, populating games with low skill bots for shitters to feel good killing; and through having a bunch of other stuff to enjoy that is separate from actually winning the game. Unlockable or purchasable skins, quests that often don't rely on your skills to complete, etc.

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Why can't you put effort and try winning a match?

>>738129231
>Losing is not fun.
Have you tried getting good your narcist

>>738129867
Because they are NPCs

>>738129487
how come this wasn't a problem in the 2000s?

>>738117623
No matchmaking, just pure random matches.

>>738129867
we are trying
just not as autistically as you
I'm not going to look up guides and meta and all that nerd shit

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>wagies get back home from their 8 hours humiliation ritual goying job and have to make the most important decision of their lives by admitting that they are inferior beings and inventing massive copes to pick unranked matchmaking
it do be like that

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>>738131007
It was, only a select few multiplayer games had playerbases after 2-3 years. This was fine back then because games didn't cost $300M and take 6+ years to develop.

>>738131007
it was a problem, you just never realized it
for every COD or CS:S, there were dozens of dead multiplayers
however, there were two key differences
1. those games had client servers, so even the deadest of multiplayers probably still had one or two public servers running to play on. or just host your own
and 2. they usually also came with a complete singleplayer game, so if the multiplayer died, there was still a reason for people to purchase the game

>>738131248
as if it makes a difference, there are just as many tryhard washouts playing unranked like it's ranked "to practice" bringing all the same bullshit that makes ranked insufferable

>>738118805
Ok enjoy all your fotm pvp games dying within 6 months every single time lol

>>738117623
You can't avoid them, you simply can't prioritize them.
Design an easy and unavoidable way for casuals to kill 'hardcore' players easily. They hate that shit. Give it to everyone, but make it random, like a power up. The sweatier they are, the more they crash out when they lose outside of their ability to mitigate it. Think about the blue shell from Mario Kart.

>>738131007
It was, mr. IWasABlindIgnorantKidBackThen.

>>738117730
Sweats are bad because they have a meltdown at you for picking the character with the 54.6% winrate instead of the one with the 54.62%.

>>738122503
Stop saying parse you cringe fucking dickhead

>>738118395
Every game I don't have an 80% win rate in. Clearly some algorithm holding me back.

low TTK is the only real answer
it doesn't matter how good you are if i'll see you first

>>738128668
You're retarded. There being a 2nd pool for people who get abused at home and because of that wig out every other game does not make it EOMM.

>>738128442
I have like 20 2000 character "effort" posts for many topics that /v/ loves to cycle through every day. I will never again engage with a topic in any serious, thoughtful or nuanced way only for the thread to die with that post. That's why you get ctrl-c, ctrl-v.

>>738118629
So you have nothing. Opinion dismissed.
>>738118808
No, tech illiterate zoom zooms who have no idea what they're talking about are incorrectly using the wrong term.
>>738127353
Proof?
>>738128668
Proof?

>>738132240
Low TTK is for aimlet reactionlet shitter retards.

>>738130950
But if I got good then I wouldn't lose any more, and wouldn't that be bad? You're implying that losing IS fun, right, since you're mocking me for saying that?

>>738132590
correct, it's also the only way to solve the sweat problem

>>738117623
All you gotta do is not cater to them. Let them bitch and whine on the forums, and keep making casual content.

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>>738117623
Damn I thought this was the one with game studio being taken over by bureaucracy corpo bullshit one.
Anyways, dedicated servers so people can pick what they want to do instead of being forced together as one big lump, then the sweats can join the comp servers, casuals join the casual server, so on and so forth.
Cosmically enough, it's sort of the gameplay equivalent to diversity and inclusion stuffing everyone together so everyone is miserable, probably not the reason companies stopped allowing dedicated servers but funny to think about it.

>>738132651
at that point just play a reaction time test alone

>>738132772
>a-at this point completely ignore the rest of what makes multiplayer videogames fun a-and test your reaction time, heh!
no, i will kill you instead, even if you're much better than me at the game. because that's what multiplaying is all about

>>738132908
>a-at this point completely ignore the rest of what makes multiplayer videogames fun
You have removed:
>Aiming
>Dodging
>Recoil management
>Tracking
>Half these console FPS even aim for you
What's left in a low TTK scenario that makes it fun?

>>738133027
>You have removed:
>>Aiming
you need to aim in order to hit people so no, i didn't
>>Dodging
dodging in high TTK games = abusing movement techs
>>Recoil management
having to slightly nudge your mouse/gamepad for no real reason is not a real mechanic, so it's not fun at all
>>Tracking
aka aiming aka no i didn't
>>Half these console FPS even aim for you
that's not specific to low TTK games
>What's left in a low TTK scenario that makes it fun?
actually being able to kill people, which is fun

>>738123303
>You are blaming casuals, when sweats created a problem.
No, people just don't marry games. They play them when they're hot and move on. It's the natural lifecycle for virtually all games except for a few bottled lighting outliers like Fortnite.

>>738132759
People don't like using a server browser.

>>738133271
>you need to aim in order to hit people so no, i didn't
Playing instagib with an automatic weapon does not require aim, you can just spam your crosshair on someone.
>dodging in high TTK games = abusing movement techs
Define "abusing". You mean, playing a video game? Is Mario abusing mechanics by crushing goombas?
>having to slightly nudge your mouse/gamepad for no real reason is not a real mechanic, so it's not fun at all
Good players do it well, bad players do it bad. "It's not fun" is just an admission of being bad.
>aka aiming aka no i didn't
Tracking is reacting to the enemy dodging.
>that's not specific to low TTK games
It is exacerbated on low TTK games
>actually being able to kill people, which is fun
So just play a reaction time test, you're literally asking for the same thing and have no counter-argument.

>>738133397
He said "corpo", why are you bothering to reply to him. He clearly has nothing of value to say.

>>738133461
>Playing instagib with an automatic weapon does not require aim, you can just spam your crosshair on someone.
that's what aiming is, correct
>Is Mario abusing mechanics by crushing goombas?
imagine you're the goomba, you walk into mario but instead of dying he becomes invincible for 2 seconds, starts jumping around, finds a mushroom, kills your entire family and then comes back to get your ass. that's what dodging on the receiving end in videogames is.
>Tracking is reacting to the enemy dodging.
...by aiming and shooting
>It is exacerbated on low TTK games
no, it isn't, aim assist has the exact same logic no matter what the game is - making controllers viable
ofc you don't need aim assist in low TTK games to have fun, I remember just running around and knifing snipers in CoDs and BFs on PS3 and I've enjoyed it tremendously

>>738133698
>that's what aiming is, correct
No, that's just playing without any intentionality like a disabled person with no motor skills would do.
>imagine you're the goomba, you walk into mario but instead of dying he becomes invincible for 2 seconds, starts jumping around, finds a mushroom, kills your entire family and then comes back to get your ass. that's what dodging on the receiving end in videogames is.
So you admit you're just upset over being styled on.
>...by aiming and shooting
by reacting to the enemy dodging.
>no, it isn't
If the game aims for you, you aren't in control of the game. The game is playing itself for you.
You literally want FPS to be like a reaction time test because you're too disabled to manage anything more.
Sad.

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>>738133397
Then give them criteria to pick for their preferences with a similar button as quick play that dumps them into dedicated servers tagged as such.
>>738133479
If you know exactly what the word means then the meaning isn't lost you retarded faggot.
It's like when people get uppity about using retard, they know exactly how you meant it in context but
>ohhh you can't say that ohhhhh!

>>738133958
>If you know exactly what the word means then the meaning isn't lost you retarded faggot.
I never said I didn't understand the word you massive retard, it just says a lot about you. IE, you're some destitute leftoid seething over other peoples wealth begging for government handouts.
Go on, post your monthly income for the past year. You won't.

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>>738134073
>leftoid
You're right, lefties throw around shit like retard and faggot all the time you blithering idiot.

>>738133892
the "intentionality" part of fps games is shooting people, whether you can pray and spray or have to keep focus on the guy for 10 full seconds doesn't matter
>So you admit you're just upset over being styled on.
only in games with a focus on movement like apex (titanfall gets a pass, guess why)
>by reacting to the enemy dodging.
how do you react to this dodging in FPS games? i left several hints already...
>If the game aims for you, you aren't in control of the game. The game is playing itself for you.
i'm in control of the game being in control of me. it is truly me who is playing myself.
>You literally want FPS to be like you want it to be
yes, i want to have a higher shot at winning every encounter. i want to kill people in games about killing people. i don't want them to spaz away with obscure movement tricks or turn their backs and inexplicably one-tap me

>>738134217
I'm talking economically you illiterate clueless retard holy shit you're so rattled lmao
I described you to a T.

sincerely think it's the opposite.
Too many shitters give up and cope about playing for fun while secretly sweating.
Metafags have never been a problem because i could be competitive without their strats.

>>738134265
>whether you can pray and spray or have to keep focus on the guy for 10 full seconds doesn't matter
It does matter. One is nothing more than a reaction time test. One has actual game mechanics.
>only in games with a focus on movement like apex
So then FPS isn't for you, go play a reaction time test.
>how do you react to this dodging in FPS games? i left several hints already...
By tracking. Metroid Prime has aiming, but it doesn't have tracking. The game tracks for you.
Holy shit you don't even understand the fundamentals of FPS.
>i'm in control of the game
No, the game is taking control away from you. It's no different to Mario clearing gaps automatically.
>yes, i want to have a higher shot at winning every encounter.
So then play a reaction time test if you want to strip away every component of what makes an FPS.

>>738134464
in the context of intentions, it don't matter, having to shoot 30 bullets instead of 5 to kill a guy changes nothing, it's a shooter about killing people
>By tracking. Metroid Prime has aiming, but it doesn't have tracking. The game tracks for you.
metroid: im crine bruh i don't care
>Holy shit you don't even understand the fundamentals of FPS.
fps genre, its origins deeply rooted in hero shooter autism... lol
>So then play a reaction time test if you want to strip away every component of what makes an FPS.
bullet sponges do not constitute the essence of first person shooters

>>738132294
Why is there a second pool? Third? Fourth? Why is there ranks and not just a number? Why do trigger happy players end up with other trigger happy players? Why do players that say "nigger" get muted or banned?
This is all in the name of engagement. Every single decision made is to make more players play and less players quit.

As I mentioned before
>They all call it something different because theres no standardised terminology for "keep players playing" as you can do that in a million differnet ways.

>>738132559
That is the proof. Its literally just wikis and official statements from devs. Thats just how it works in every team matchmaking game.

>>738134872
>in the context of intentions, it don't matter, having to shoot 30 bullets instead of 5 to kill a guy changes nothing
It does matter. One is nothing more than a reaction time test. One has actual game mechanics such as
>Aiming
>Dodging
>Recoil management
>Tracking

>bruh i don't care
So you admit I'm right.
>bullet sponges do not constitute the essence of first person shooters
Yes it does. Without it, you're just playing a reaction time test.

>>738117730
>bullies kid into dropping out
>everyone turns on the bully
>"HEY AT LEAST I STAYED, HELLO?"
No one WANTS you to stay, faggot.

>>738134217
Don't post my wife like that.

>>738135141
>That is the proof. Its literally just wikis and official statements from devs. Thats just how it works in every team matchmaking game.
No, none of the links confirms any of the games mentioned use EOMM.
>https://www.vice.com/en/article/arc-raiders-dev-provides-more-details-on-aggression-based-matchmaking-system/
Not this.
>https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Player_Behavior_Summary
Or this.
>https://counterstrike.fandom.com/wiki/Matchmaking#Glicko_skill_rating_system
Or this.
Show me some evidence of a game that uses EOMM. You won't. You can't. You have nothing.

>>738118180
Yeah, but every fucking MMR system *insist* on forcing you to get rolfstomped 10 times before admitting you belong in the beginner pool.
So instead it just made the regular part of the playerbase flee and is accentuating the problem in OP's pic.
Games need to put every new account directly at negative MMR and find a way to identify and immediately push smurfs really fucking high, instead of assuming everyone is kinda already "middle" for a game where the actual middle is people who objectively suck but have still been playing all the game's cheese strats for the past 10 years.

>>738135215
>>Aiming
>>Dodging
>>Recoil management
>>Tracking
they spoil the meat
>Yes it does. Without it, you're just playing a reaction time test.
as if od'ing on addies to kill the guy with 5000hp who started floating in air is above that lol
have fun with your carpal tunnel syndrome

>>738118121
>completely missing the point of the image
wow

>>738135482
>they spoil the meat
They are the meat.
>as if od'ing on addies to kill the guy with 5000hp who started floating in air is above that lol
It is, because instead of there being one single element that matters, there are now 5-6 that seperate good players from bad. Maybe you're stronger in one and weak in another. It allows for expression, that's what gaming is about.
>have fun with your carpal tunnel syndrome
You're the one with motor and mental skill issues here anon. You want FPS to be a reaction time test because you're incapable of anything more than that.

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>>738117623
I know it's not videogames but this is pretty much how the poker playerpool evolved (and will evolve if you have a small local pool)

First image was anything between the 2000s and 2010 during the poker boom with moneymaker (for fun player that won millions because he was super lucky, ran hot)

Second image is probably how it was in the 2010s and it only got worse since. Covid brought a lot of online players so it actually improved and went backwards in this "graph" but obviously the progression is the same as OP illustrated

>>738135402
You are aware that matches occur outside of placement matches, right? I don't know why you're so focused on placement matches. It's ok to lose the odd game anon.

>>738135643
>It allows for expression, that's what gaming is about.
there's nothing expressive about killing people in videogames, gaming is about winning
>You're the one with motor and mental skill issues here anon. You want FPS to be a reaction time test
it already is that even with quaketism by your definition
>because you're incapable of anything more than that.
this is a good thing btw. being good at bad things is not a good thing.

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>>738135329
All 3 of those links are examples of EOMM. You are misinterpreting what engagement means to a company. Its strictly more players palying and less players quitting.

Heres some more because I have the time
>https://blog.counter-strike.net/the-trust-factor/
>CSGO official
>https://www.callofduty.com/blog/2024/07/call-of-duty-matchmaking-intel
>COD official
>https://www.ubisoft.com/en-au/game/rainbow-six/siege/news-updates/3pf2Hhz7nKS9CiRj5XdHRv/reputation-system-beta-reputation-standing-fair-play-program-beta
>R6 official
>https://www.pcgamesn.com/overwatch/overwatch-avoid-as-teammate
>overwatch adds avoids and behavior score

And heres straight up an academic paper written by EA on engagement and matchmaking. It describes all of this shit if you can be bothered to read it. (I know you wont. But I want you to know youre retarded)
>https://arxiv.org/pdf/1702.06820

Surely sweat to casual is a spectrum not binary. Is a dude who religiously plays a multiplayer game for 2 hours after work every night a sweat?

>>738135879
>there's nothing expressive about killing people in videogames
Yes there is, that's literally why frag movies exist. You just have no retort.
>it already is that even with quaketism by your definition
Wrong, because instead of there being one single element that matters, there are now 5-6 that seperate good players from bad.
>this is a good thing btw. being good at bad things is not a good thing.
Sounds like shitter cope to me.

>>738136004
>Yes there is, that's literally why frag movies exist. You just have no retort.
nobody makes frag movies anymore
>Wrong, because instead of there being one single element that matters, there are now 5-6 that seperate good players from bad.
these "elements" do not escape the core of the genre: making other people lose while you win. low TTK is the best way to achieve this.

>>738135957
>All 3 of those links are examples of EOMM.
EOMM is explicitly (according to the patent) about prioritising generating revenue from players.
Your screenshot is talking about some ABMM which isn't even the sam acronym you fucking retard.

>>738136097
>nobody makes frag movies anymore
Yes they do
>these "elements" do not escape the core of the genre: making other people lose while you win
You balance this with skill based matchmaking, not by making the game as trivial as a reaction time test.

>>738136001
If you boil it down too much, it loses its meaning.
Sweats arent defined by playtime or skill. Only relative effort to other players.

You wouldnt consider someone who knows tictactoe is a solved game to be a sweat.
But someone whos played it a few 10's of times in their life but never actually cared to learn anything, would consider that player to be a lifeless tictactoe pub stomper.

See bellow

>>738136123
Just look at this guy. He straight up looked at the screenshot and ignored 5 sources + explanations given to him. He hasnt cared about anything in his life.
thats a casual. And thats whod get upset in losing to a tictactoe sweat.

Test

>>738136214
>He straight up looked at the screenshot and ignored 5 sources
I asked you to prove EOMM exists in a game. Your screenshots don't prove it. Your links don't prove it.
Show me proof of EOMM (As pertaining to what is in the patent) exists in a game.
You literally have nothing.

>>738136181
sbmm clearly does not work according to the sweat balls portrayed in op

>>738117678
Nice blog nigger

>>738117623
You can't, that's literally the natural lifecycle of things, only way to avoid it is to make new games

>>738128668
arc uses aggression based matchmaking

>>738136312
How does it not work? Ranked matchmaking is by far the most popular way to play the top memesports games.

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>>738136284
cope. just accept youre retarded and improve.

>>738136392
it's the only way to play them actually

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There's not really much you can do beyond making it clear your game's main intended playstyle is not sweaty

I think Team Fortress 2 would be a good one to look at for this because far and away its main play avenue is Casual Matchmaking; Competitive Matchmaking is an aborted fetus that literally does not work, while Casual Matchmaking prevents sweats from lobotomizing it into comp by having no dedicated rule-set, no option for rule enforcement, and completely playerside kicking/banning with votes (for better and for worse)

>>738136432
No it's not.

It is the natural life cycle of a game with a high skill cieling that the skill of the median player should trend upwards over time. You can only resist this by making games with low skill cielings, excessive focus on luck, or rubber band mechanics. The first is not inherently problematic, although it would be a shame if every game were inherently casual. The latter two are always terrible.

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>uh yeah of course i play to win thats the point get good no i wont queue ranked i dont need to
>*gets paired against similarly skilled players*
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE THIS ISNT FAIR YOU CANT DO THIS TO ME
why is it always like this?

>>738136669
Pub stompers have the most fragile ego's on the planet. They literally get anxiety queuing for ranked.

>>738136463
TF2 casual matches are determimed entirely by which team gets more 3000 hour pubstompers and whether those handful of players decide to use serious strategies.

>>738136669
If I'm better than average I should win more than half the time

>>738117623
Execute anyone who watches or engages in "esports" or any kind of serious competitive gaming

>>738117623
Play a game with an actual ranked ladder like league of legends, actual sweats it's basically impossible for them to end up lower than diamond no matter how bad they actually are.

>>738136748
Right, but it's also a PvP game so that's expected regardless, and on top of that there's still just as many Hightower servers that are 24/7 DM in function, or completely friendly 2fort servers

>>738136817
>better than average
>doesn't win more than half the time
Guess you aren't above average.

>>738117623
DEDICATED SERVERS

DEDICATED SERVERS

DEDICATED SERVERS

DEDICATED SERVERS

DEDICATED SERVERS

>>738137008
community servers*
why are pub stompers so tech illiterate?

>>738128668
None of those games use engagement based matchmaking , you're just a spastic who correctly gets placed into the spastic only que.
League doesn't even have a tard/smurf que anymore, it's 100% based on mmr. I had a smurf earlier this year and I was silver playing in Diamond/low masters games after like 10 matches

>>738137032
you probably don't know this but if you host a dedicated server you can kick the sweats and play with your buddies :)

Everyone who's slightly better than me is a sweat

>>738137112
Oh so you're some fragile admin terrified of being owned. Got it.

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>>738117623
Why don't you learn how to play the game instead of seeking to mash with day 1 beginners? Games should not be designed for retards, that's why modern games are so awful.

>We should have community servers because.... BECAUSE I WANT TO BAN YOU IF YOU KILL ME TOO MUCH

Call of Duty ran a live test were they disabled SBMM in production and universally everyone thought the matches were worse.

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>>738117623
Anyone who unironically uses the term "sweats" is a tourist retard who needs to find a different hobby. It literally always boils down to
>THIS PLAYER IS BETTER THAN ME SO THEY'RE KILLING THE GAME
Like, fuck, man, if you actually enjoyed the shit you're playing you'd be having a fun time learning and improving and even losing. You're literally that one faggot kid at the playground screeching because nobody's letting you win at dodgeball.

>>738118163
let the sweats have their own community servers and never acknowledge them

>>738137108
>spastic gets placed with other spastics so he doesnt ruin the match for non spastics
>this increases... engagement?
>no no no. cant be right.
>maybe that academic paper the spastic posted on engagement matchmaking describes this
>but I wont read that. I have ADHD after all.

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>>738137112
>you probably don't know this but if you host a dedicated server you can kick the sweats
As someone who actually played on and liked community servers, any community server that got a reputation for kicking players who were "too good" outside of the ones explicitly marked as something like "newbie server" ended up dying because fucking nobody wants to play with people who do shit like that. Jiggly's Funhouse is a prime example, but you're probably too underage to remember it.

>>738117730
SPBP. This board constantly cries about sweats because its easier to whine and bitch and it is to just accept you're not good at something, especially when its something like gaming that's so critical to their identity.

There is not an issue with "sweats" ruining online games, you just never dont have the emotional maturity to learn how to deal with losing, and so you never developed the will power to push through failure and improve yourself. When I lose a game, I think to myself "damn, tough match, I need to practice more". When these crybabies lose they think "i only lost because the other guy was trying too hard to win". Like no shit, why would someone not try and win in a competitive game? It's such a pathetic attitude.

>>738118262
SBMM just becomes Engagement Based Matchmaking to fuck with your head and make you buy more from their in-game shop. I'll never touch a game with it after seeing CoD doing variable damage.

>>738137536
Proof?

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>>738137217
>community servers
One time I played NMRiH with a friend. We joined one of the hundreds of empty servers in this game, I noticed we kept getting points for killing zombies so I tried checking if the server had a pointshop or something. When I did, some admin who wasn't even on the server chat muted me for 30 minutes. Then my friend asked in the chat if there was a point shop and we both got perma banned
The game only has like 300 average players on steam by the way

>>738117678
>all that in 90 seconds
hello OP

>>738138710
Shouldn't have tried to beat the system nerd.

>>738117678
>I'd love to get into another MMO but the communities that tend to play MMOs are not people i want to spend any time with. Both, the sweaty parsers and the 50 year old schizo cat ladies.
I played Korean MMOs back on the day whe it was peak comfy, social media ruined gaming in more ways than one.

>>738138787
damn I feel played now
now I wonder what's the actual amount of genuine threads on the boards

>>738118395
Guild Wars 2

>>738137217
Not a problem, if one admin is a shitter you can always go to another dedicated server or host your own.

>>738139127
SBMM guarantees me a proper ruleset, and a significantly fairer game than other solutions. Now you're saying I just bounce between servers until I magically find one with equal players? You're retarded.
People literally made their own SBMM with ladders before it was even a thing because players were so desperate to move away from community servers.

>>738138413
There will never be solid proof barring leaks from the studio.
That said, it is incontrovertible that they can tweak player damage. This is a feature they touted in their anti-cheat.

the thing that's changed is the influencer expert eco system. a multiplayer game isn't just something you play anymore, it's a hobby to learn. part of the buy in to these games that people like is having a progression learning the meta and putting it into place.

>>738139748
You're telling me we have all this data and telemetry granted to third party sites for all these competitive memesports of millions of players and nobody can check if EOMM is engaged?
That's why I don't buy it.

>>738139296
there's no such thing as equality
and people are retarded, if you don't push them towards greatness they will rot with other retards

>>738117623
I'm pretty sure this has everything to do with time and not much to do with players themselves. You just can't go back in time.

>>738117623
Redefine "sweat" to actually mean "wastes all his time playing one single video game" and not "gamer who is better than a dog chewing on a controller".

>>738131007
The Boy Who Cried Sweat didn't exist back then

>>738117623
From the MMOs I used to play, this is almost always a result of an incompetent dev team that only caters to sweats because they pay up, but forget they need to ramp up newfags quickly when the sweats eventualy lose interest. There are sweats that care for the health of the game and help noobs out, but it's hard to keep them interested if the devs don't care.

>>738139958
I think that dynamically tweaking people's health or damage a little serverside would be unnoticeable to the point that accusations would be relegated to the realm of conspiracy with people's only evidence being video recordings of their gameplay, yes.

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I don't understand, why not just pick a server you like?

>>738140826
>beep boop must play current game beep boop
>current game doesn't have a server browser

>I care enough about the game to cry when I lose but not enough to actually learn how to win
>instead I will spend my time screeching online and blame sweats/rigged matchmaking/my team/RNG/etc
Many such cases

>>738137461
I'm not talking about community servers, I'm talking about dedicated servers where I, or one of my friends hosts it.
If the server doesn'tt have a password, it's only up until someone starts ruining everyone's fun that I'd kick anyone, and I generally have a very high tolerance.
a 10 to 0 KD rate isn't it, but seeing someone borderline spawncamping or start seething about people's playstyles or builds? fuck outta here

>>738140131
>there's no such thing as equality
Yes there is, it's a scale, not absolute. Things can be more or less equal just like you can be more or less retarded.
>and people are retarded, if you don't push them towards greatness they will rot with other retards
Which is why players made their own SBMM long before it was officially a thing.

>>738141516
>I'm not talking about community servers, I'm talking about dedicated servers where I, or one of my friends hosts it.
You truly are a retard.

>>738117623
You can't stop it, casuals are by definition casual players, your best bet is treadmill aka releasing the same game every year like CoD and alikes are doing.
Casuals needs new games and by releasing the same game you provide them with exactly that, if you want them to stick to one game you need to copy MMOs approach of power creep that reset everyone's progress before big expansion but also include the option of more experienced players carrying casuals.
If you want your old game to still print money and attract new blood you have to do cross promotions between your old and new game.
Basically people can sneed about it but Bobby really had it figured out.

>>738141629
bruh o algo