there is a milion different classes in this game but barely any builds online the fuck am I supposed to do just trial and error?
>>738120231Yes.Best thing about this game is you can respec. So no matter how much you fuck up your build you can easily fix it .
>>738120231Yes, that's the fun of it, you read descriptions and theory craft in your head. "Hmm... if I take 2 levels of Paladin I get divine grace then I could take another 5 levels in monk which also scales with CHR...which would synergize well with a sorcerer into dragon disciple" If you're not interested in doing that you can always turn the difficulty down to journalist mode and play a pure class from 1~20.
>>738120231Have you considered just playing games without a guide?
>>738120627What if I make a choice that sucks and I'm too dumb to realize it sucks?
>>738120690If you're too dumb to realize something sucks then does it matter? You won't notice it. It's not like the game is hard.
>>738120231There is a guy you meet relatively early on who can respec your characters if you fuck up, which is very likely because the game is full of noob trap options. My advice is to just pick something that seems cool and go with it, see how you do.
>>738120797What if I keep making choices that suck but I can't figured out why they suck so I keep making them and nothing seems to work and everything I choose is wrong because I'm dumb?
>>738120874Do trial and error until you learn? I find figuring out how games work to be half the fun.
how the fuck do I drink equipped potions or use scrolls?
>>738120563>if I take 2 levels of Paladin I get divine grace then I could take another 5 levels in monk which also scales with CHRDid DnD/Pathfinder become so cucked that Paladins can multiclass and keep their divine features? Disgusting.
>>738121153Add them to your hotbar and... Click themAlso in the inventory you can right click and then click "use"Not off to a great start anon, is this your first isometric/rpg/strategy game ever?
>>738121163If you multiclass Paladin prior to Mythic 3 you can keep your paladin stuff while being a chaotic evil demon lmao.
>>738120231most of things are easy. like, fighter 20, paladin 20, monk 20, reaper, rogue, cavalier, anything else with autoattacks worksif you wanna kinda break the game - you can search some build yes. another thing, as example, that your other characters are kinda suck ass, you cannot respec them fully, they start at some cocksucker jobs. it is playable but can be betterbesides, you need like 4 supports, and 2 damage dealers. so, you need arcane caster, divine caster, shaman/witch, and some tank, that leaves you with 2 dps mates. but then again, almost everything is playable in this game, you just need to stuck some one stat, like lots of evasion on tank, or lots of accuracy on DD
Play on coreRead what skills do Respec liberally
>>738120231Majority of them are shit anyway. Also shit game btw
>>738120231The game only has like four builds at best and the class options are mainly cosmetic.
>>738120231>but barely any builds online Except there are heaps? There were like 20 European guys who made WotR builds their whole channel theme for like 4 years.
>>738120627NTA but it depends entirely on what difficulty OP is playing the game at. Normal? Any build will do. Hard? If you're not min-maxing, you're not beating the game.
>>738121506Maybe it's the autism but I really don't find games so hard that a guide or min maxing is needed. They can be figured out by yourself.
>>738120231You realize straight classes are ass, and then read all several hundred subclass for every single unique feature, spending an hour or two of your lifeORyou just copy builds until you learn how to make your own by osmosis.
Someone rate my build for a trip-focused monk with a trip-focused pet wolf:11 sohei / beast rider 2 / hunter 3 / mutant 4
>>738120231Catch, here's the rulebook
>>738121886If your build has more than 2 classes I hate it
>>738120231dont look for game-specific builds; look for pathfinder 1e builds
>>738121163You could always multiclass Paladin as long as you don't change your alignment.
>>738120231There's really no need. Most classes perform just fine if you put 20 levels into them. Don't spread your feats too wide for useless garbage and you'll be fine, also don't play on core if you're a newbie.
>>738121163Fake ass gamer
>>738122063nah you couldn't multiclass paladin in ad&d
>>738120231Have you considered studying the blade?
>core>is not core and every monster is some homebrew bullshit with numbers jacked up the asstruly puzzling owlcat
>>738122174The only thing more boring than an Aldori Swordlord is pre-rework Assassin
>>73812062790% of the classes in pathfinder souly exist as dips for the actual 10% viable classes
>>738122184It's the core of your asshole getting prolapsed by going blind into playful darkness
there are too many trash fights
>>738122720The trash encounters exist to stress your resources. Spells, potions, scrolls, ability charges, ect, part of the challenge is not just clearing encounters but clearing them effciently and the trash encounters are there to make sure you aren't just throwing down a sirocco or a stormbolts on every pack of goblins you come across and calling it a day by taking a full rest.
Is sorcerer any good? It seems stupid to pre-pick your spells in a video game so I'd rather have the flexibility
>>738120231>there is a milion different classesnot really there are spell casters and martials with a million different flavor
>>738120437respecing is a fucking chore in this game
>>738120627This kills the zoomer
Real time mode for fighter classes, Turn based for mages, trying to do real time on casters is dogshit.
>>738123593>This kills the zoomerNeed I remind you how every game had an official guide sold separately printed of paper pre 2005?
pathfinder is too autistic for a chad like me
>>738123661>Guides existOk
>>738123593>zoomer
Canon KC is>Aasimar >Female >Bard >Chaotic Good >Azata >Romance Arue >Ascension ending >Impregnated with twins
>>738123390You can always respec so long as you're not playing on the higher difficulties if you fuck up your spell choices. Just don't pick stuff that literally every demon is inherently immune to (electricity/poison) or anything that is cucked by hitdice totals like sleep and you should be fine.
>>738120231>am I supposed to do just trial and error?Have you considered>Pick a cool looking class>Put points into the singular stat that the class says is important>FUCKING READ the tooltips as you go along and review them if you forget>Apply the information that you learn>If you're too retarded to read words and numbers in an RPG then at least have the humility to pick the game journalist difficultyI knew nothing about pathfinder and barely understood how magic worked until partway into act 2 and still managed to beat the game with a full fighter build
>>738123997I'll do Kingmaker first, I think there are fewer demons there?
>Picked one bad feat 4 levels ago>To fix it I have to remake my entire characterWish I could just replace a feat.
>>738124074kingmaker is like, easymode. you start in some woods, there are humans and goblins, everything is easyWOTR is THE fucking game, you start literally with counter-crusade against fucking demons, everyone has like 10 point of damage resist from every damage source, and everything is better, big levels like DREZEN, grey garrison and so onbesides there are lots of QOL features that exist in wotr, but not implemented in Kingmakes. literally, some stuff not working in kingmaker.
>>738124074There' like 3 demons total in Kingamaker but a hell of a lot more F*yGood news on that one, Sylvan Sorcerer is fucking God Tier in Kingmaker, just grab Grease, Brap cloud, and Cloud kill and you'll be unstoppable.
>>738124276https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uITaghKWMMMin WOTR it's littered with anime moments of "main character gets a sudden powerup", so the stronger enemies are accounted for not saying it's not fucking kino
>>738120231Read and i mean read a lot, this is based on 3.5e which is feat heavy also with lots of class means lots of flavor means you can take dips. Like other anons said it depends on difficulty, on normal everything can work but core and above need some understanding of the mechanic and minimal min-max up to full min-max in unfair.
>>738124603That part when you're on a narrow bridge and demons have you surrounded on all sides and then fucking angels came down from heaven to save my ass was probably my favorite moment in the entire game.
>>738124276I prefer the Kingmaker cast to the Wrath one.
this is why baseder is based and pillars is the best rpg, you can't fuck up your build
>>738125382>basedersoyer
>>738125382Because you fall asleep before you get to that point.
>>738120231Focus on understanding the mechanics to find workarounds and requirements for feats. Builds can be tricky on this game because requirements sometimes only show themselves when you meet them, which can make planning ahead difficult.
>>738125881You can pick the "show unavailable " during feat selection and check what you need to get the desired feat.
>>738126219Yeah but its still a bit buried.The whole 'feat tax' system where you take a feat you don't need because it unlocks a feat you want is poorly communicated in the UI. Most people who are just playing the game blind aren't going to know they should take point-blank shot because it open up feats they might actually want.
Pathfinder follows the D&D 3.5 tradition of making mutliclassing splash levels fundamental and weaving through a maze of Feats to make a giga-OP charactermeanwhile modern D&D streamlined everything down to giga-simplicity. it's like "hmm should i take a feat to make me better in combat or should I take Chef so I can roleplay as Senshi from Dungeon Meshi
>>738126783That's because the two are evolving under different philosphies.CRPGs are still tailored to creating heroic fantasy adventure simulations. How would a team of heros tackle fighting a chimera and a horde of goblins?Vs Tabletops are really just about flirting with your guy friends and talking about anime.
>>738123747>Berserker 9 dual class to mageYep it's gaming time. Alternately Kensai 9 dual to Thief (to be the assassin that Assassin wishes it was).
>>738127780Never played BG, why is doing a martial class for half the game and then switching to a mage the meta? Doesn't that make the mage part weak in the endgame?
>>738120231Man I really want to use student of war but Know your enemy is still bugged to shit.
>>738127852because that's where BG2 starts level-wise, and the attack bonus lines up with it.
>>738127852because of scaling, also dual-classing in ad&d is not like multiclassing in 3.Xe.Infinity engines games are trash though.
>>738127852>Doesn't that make the mage part weak in the endgame?By the endgame you're only a level or so behind a pure mage. It only really sucks right after dual classing, when you don't have your fighter abilities back yet and are just a low level mage. Meanwhile you have vastly more HP (HP gain mostly stops after level 9), THAC0 (attack bonus), grand mastery bonuses and fighter APR.
>>738121163bro...it's been literally, LITERALLY, TWENTY SIX (26) YEARS since paladins could multiclass.TWENTY SIX YEARS.That's older than the average user of this site.Fucking retards play BG2 once in their lives and want to pretend they know what D&D is.
>>738128283>>738128264But why would I care about attack bonii as a mage
>>738121783>You realize straight classes are assSecond-hand information obtained by not actually reading the rules.Going 20 levels of paladin or magus or some of the fighter subclasses is pretty effective and you don't need to multiclass at all.
>>738128523"pretty effective" is a euphemism for "painful and inefficient"
>>738123390It's far better in this game than it is in a tabletop assuming you know what to pick. It is especially true for merged casters because they get to cast more of their OP spells and generally get more spells added to their arsenal for free.Flexibilty doesn't mean jack shit when sorc can already cover all the bases by picking best spells.
>>738120231There are more than enough guides to carry you through until you understand the game well enough to throw something together yourself.
>>738128439the meta of infinity engine games (all shit by the way) is buff + time stop and auto-attack
>>738123350Except that you can just rest after every fight because both pf games give you plenty of time to do so.Not that you need it, since most trash fights are too easy to make you spend any resources. They're just straight up a waste of time.
>>738128569Not the case with paladin in WotR specifically thougheverbeit, that is most effective single-classed. Probably also true for mutagen fighters and sword saints.
because it doesn't really matter, it just changes what kind of colored fireball/arrow you are tossing around, the combat mechanics are too simple for any choice to feel impactful
>>738128569You've never played this game. There is zero difference in how a lv 20 fighter and a lv20 multiclass abomination actually play, you just let them run one-shotting trash, pausing to cast a spell on the few challenging enemies.
>>738121349What's the best way of building Regill as a raptor rider?This looks hilarious.
>>738128439Buffed dual wielding melee with 10 APR way outdamages magic for single targets, while you have all kind of crazy defensive buffs due to mage.
>>738128689every melee martial (one of the four builds in the game) is just enlarge then outflank/cleave/cornugon spam except sometimes you also have a mount or looping off-hand attacks if you're a trickster
>>738128828>outflank/cleave/cornugon spamIf you're playing on core you don't even need to do this.Just throwing some random buffs before a fight will let you clear most boss fights.
>>738128953true, this game sucks.honestly might not even have four builds, since in a way ranged martials and blasters are functionally the same thing.
>>738128953>>738129253>>738128828>>738128689>>738128569>>738128523I remember when I first played kingmaker I got to the troll boss and lost the first time after grueling fight.And then I reloaded and cast a bunch of buffs before the fight and beat it within seconds.I tried the game again with a bunch of OP builds, got to the same boss, and still had a grueling fight without buffs and an easy fight with buffs.Your build literally does not matter, all that matters is if you pre-buff before every difficult difficult fight.Every area is>cast long term buffs on everyone>clear everything with ease until you reach a difficult fight>cast short term buffs>clear it with ease.
>>738129414just cast the buffs in the fight
I miss Pathfinder.Owlcat moved on to Warhammer and now the Expanse, but man. I want to go on more adventures in Golarion. I miss it. Kingmaker and Wrath are two of my favorite RPGs of all time.
>>738129794well anything anymore from that setting would be going to 2E and "modern" Pathfinder writer meddling
>>738130162I want to see a game with 2e rules just out of morbid curiosity
>>738130224There's a short indie game called Dawnsbury Days that is pretty good.
>>738128275>Infinity engines games are trash though.filtered
>>738128953Personally for me it's outflank/shatter defense, then it's power attack + cornugon smash for easy fight
>>738120231>barely any builds online Clearly you're not looking.
>>738128706there are some crazy build with lots of classeshttps://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/builds/Regillmostly consist of inquisitor sacred huntsmanmakes regill useful as fuck, unlike his hellknight class.
>>738120231yes zoom zoom, you're supposed to actually play the video game
>>738128591unlike owlcrap gam-
>>738120231Ignore all of the people saying "Just have fun and experiment!!", they are lying to you and want you to suffer. Pathfinder a million trap options that fucking suck and will make the game way harder when you reach higher levels. Look up Pathfinder 1e builds for the tabletop system and use those, you have 20 years of autistic nerds who did the work for you.
>>738130772I hate them both, rtwp games can really only be good if they're designed as such from the ground up.
>>738130336>>738130224I highly recommend it, its really good from just a pure encounter design and gameplay perspective.Kinda light on writing though, so don't go in expecting to fall in love with the characters or get blown away by the plot.
>>738130779>Pathfinder a million trap options that fucking suck and will make the game way harder when you reach higher levels.nah. most physical classes are streamlined and playable.some gimmick casters can be tricky, like witch, shaman, magus, some clerics/capellans, oracle. like, playing as caster in WOTR can be tricky but any autoattack class works fine.but then again there are lots of interesting things, like nenio with phantasmal killers/wierd
>>738130743Damn that's some insane multiclassing
>>738128591that's literally just throne of bhaal
>>738130986there are not that much needed actually>7 armiger>1 hellknightthis is Regill's start classes, you just cannot switch them away>1 monk sohei for mounted shieldi think this is not working now>12 inquisitor sacred huntsmanliterally main aspect of this class, 12 levels of semi-DD with pet>1 level of ranger demonslayerjust for +2 accuracy against demonsso this is kinda fighter+inquisitor
>>738120231>game gives you choices>piss and shit yourself because there's no one to make your choices for youGo play Roblox, baby bitch.
After playing both BG3 and WOTR i feel like they are both math games, but WOTR makes the math more involved until the very endgame via character progression while in BG3 it relies almost entirely on itemization and completely dwarfs verticality and positioning.
>>738131236>game gives you choices with long term consequences that you are not possibly prepared to make an informed decision about unless you spent hundreds of hours studying esoteric knowledge for a niche TRPG system
>>738130779you're thinking of D&D3e. Pathfinder is not D&D3e. Kingmaker is even less, just play on core and any build works.
>>738131487>ou spent hundreds of hours studying esoteric knowledge for a niche TRPG systemIs it difficult to stack dps stats on dps class?Is it difficult to stack defence stats on tank?everyone doing it in every game
Just download the mod that makes all of the classes/feats into their tabletop equivalent with no changes and look up Pathfinder 1e builds.Problem solved.
>>738131993yeah, apart from the few feats not functioning correctly, these games are really not particularly difficult to figure out. they're still shit and very bloated though.
>>738122147>ad&deither you are a hipster faggot or a boomer corpse who refuses to die so he can pollute the world with his stupidity. so which one are you huh
>>738120231Funny that there isn't something like nwn2db fir the PF games.Actually, since it doesn't have community features (actual modding tools, multiplayer and online components, etc) it makes sense, now that I think about it.
>>738131932>Pathfinder is not D&D3e
>>738131932>Pathfinder is not dnd3 Pathfinder exist because people didn't want to move to 4e
>>738132837>>738132917Anon, "based on" does not mean "is".Just look at a monster stat sheet, it even has new stats. All the classes are now very different. Compare a 3e paladin with a pf paladin.
>>738132837He's not wrong.The bones are the same, but the final thing is markedly different.Hell, just the abundance of Archetypes in PF vs the abundance of PRCs in D&D 3.5e is enough of a change, not to speak of things like CMD/CMB, how skills work, the way polymorph effects differ, the skill system (ranks, class vs non-class), etc etc.If you try yo take a spell from 3.5e and use it on Pathfinder you might have to make changes or adapt, for example. Same for some creatures, classes, etc.There's also a general change in philosophy, specially towards the later half of PF's life.>T. somebody who actually plays the TTRPG
why hasn't someone made a mod to improve the enemy's AI yet?
>>738134519They have
>>738134519One guy did and he locked it behind a gay ass loot randomizer that can't be turned off.
>>738134914This >>738135120doesn't count
>>738123350> just throwing down a sirocco or a stormbolts on every pack of goblins you come across and calling it a day by taking a full restBut you can do just that? Corruption is a non issue. Not like you need it, auto attacking everything to death is much easier.
>>738120563>you have to be some nonsensical combination of 3 completely different and unfitting flavours, otherwise it's heavily suboptimal>it's cool because you're theorycraftingI fucking hate multiclassing, it barely makes any narrative or thematic sense for 90% of characters people use it for. If your class can't get really good at what it's supposed to do purely by itself it's shit game design. If you want to have more options or different "builds" available just give players more things to choose within the boundaries of their class or give them some class neutral advances to choose from
>>738120231Isn't this the cuck game?
>>738120231Just make your numbers big.
TURN BASED WOTR REMAKE WHEN?
Without merging spellbooks since I'm going Demon what's a good way to get to 25CL? I want permanent Eaglesoul in act 4.
>>738130162>>7381302242E is straight up better than 1e or even 5e tho.
>>738137435>eaglesoul>evilyou do know it doesn't work on evil characters right?
>>738137510The world is not ready to understand this truth brother
>>738137569afaik it just makes you permanent staggered which gets cancelled out by Freedom of Movement.
>>738137435Robe of the Seven Sins gives +3 Caster Level, you can then go Spell Specialization: Eagle Soul for an extra +2, you'll have to waste two feats to do this and I don't think it's worth it. Or you can wait a bit longer and use the Fiery Spell Weaver along with the Fresh Yogurt meal for a +1 each.
>>738120231almost anything can be made to work on normal difficultymost things are that are good are obviously good, and work as you might imagine them, like the paladin archetype that rides mounts and charges with lances for example, is very good against demons, as you might hope
I just make everyone a ranger/cavalier. Free pets are stupid. Cavalier gets crazy move speed. Just need someone that can Enlarge Creature.
>>738137724Wait, I think demonic rage also gives bonuses to caster levels, though I'm not sure if those are only for Spell Penetration and Dispel attempts, so you can just cast it during the first combat and have it last the rest of the day. If you want to trigger combat at will use the Duality of Conjuring and Summoning with the Jaws of the Jackal on an Evil character equipped to guarantee the Devas will be hostile, or just summon any good aligned creature with those Jaws of the Jackal equipped.
>>738137510that's a lot of bread
>>738137260WOTR already has turnbased.
>>738139021The game is RTWP first and foremost, it's not designed around turn based
>>738139805it is, unlike Kingmaker TB was kept in mind during the development
>>738139885Is that why they made one gorillion trash fights that add nothing to the game?
>>738140135see >>738123350
>>738139885>it isIt's not. Are you high? The game is RTWP slop. AI doesn't even even use all TB features and pathfinder system. It's dumb RTWP slop ai designed to run at you like in diablo.
>>738140190>>738136126
>>738140135>>738140212what you retards will argue with what the devs said now?
>>738140479The devs can say what they want, I judge the final product
>>738140190Trash encounters exist because game is RTWP slop. Pillars of Eternity is another RTWP slop game with x2 more trash fights than WOTR except the enemies in PoE actually use their spells, skill, cast buffs, debuffs, switch targets. It makes PoE TB more interesting (if you ignore broken interrupt and initiative).>>738140479The fuck are you talking about? Did you even play turn based RPG? They have different encounter design. Even Rogue Trader is different.
>>738140593BTW Kingmaker AI mod for TB shits on WOTR.
>>738140225If you can rest that often just up the difficulty, you're clearly not stressed for resources. Every time you rest you spend resources, if you have an abundance of those resources, like camping supplies and food it means you're playing on a difficulty level that's too easy for you. Same goes for portions, wands, and scrolls, if you find that you're not using them and your inventory is cluttered with them you're clearly not playing on a high enough difficulty.
The thing is, combat encounters in Wrath of the Righteous are fucking terrible. So there's barely any reason to actually make decent builds. Genuinely, the game is better if you turn the fucking difficulty to 'basically skip combat'. It's that bad.
>>738140787bro, there are no resources, this isn't kingmaker, as long as you can pass the skill check to ward off corruption you'll be fine
>>738140787I beat WotR blind first time with "sadistic game design" achievement. Never used scrolls or consumables. Resource management is a joke. The game is just hack n slash with stat inflated mobs. It's not about using your big brain to overcome enemy with tactic and strategy. It's about flat footing and touch ACing against auto attacking mob with 100 AC
>>738141121I was speaking generally about both games.>>738141282Good for you, I'm sure your mother is very proud she raised such a clever boy. Now do it on unfair with last azlanti mode enabled since you're clearly such a master of the game, nothing short of that would be worthy of you.
>>738141627NTA, but as a general rule I would argue that if the mechanic/game element kinda serves its purpose only if the player goes out of their way to make the game as challenging for themselves as they can handle and in all other cases the mechanic is just a tedious timewaster, it's a sign of bad game design. Or at the very least poor balance
>>738141627>Now do it on unfair with last azlanti modeMin-maxing same META builds (with 4 characters for maximum XP) so I can flat foot and touch ACing against auto attacking mob with 200 AC? With the same spells because 90% of your spellbook is useless even on core? And ALT+F4 on bad rolls? No thanks. I would better to play proper turn based cRPG instead of rtwp slop with bad tb.
I played Kingmaker on normal and enjoyed myself (until the ghost house at the end anyway).Now I'm playing WotR on Core and enjoying myself. Feeling very underlevelled despite playing everything I found, though.
>>738120627>do that>reach midgame>why can't I hit stuff?>what do you mean I have to constantly stack every buff at my disposal?>but I don't have any buffs>*quits game*
>>738142089>puts on high difficulty>complain that the game is difficultthis would not have happened if you played on core>but I don't have any buffsLiterally impossible since every other party member is gonna be a caster with many buffs.
>>738142183>>puts on high difficultynope>since every other party member is gonna be a castersays who? the guide?
>>738141935I think it works fine, I often found myself on my first playthrough scrapping the bottom of the barrel trying to salvage my situation with my last couple potions and scrolls and being thankful when I found a solution to my conundrum. Without the trash encounters that'd never happen because I'd always have all my best spells ready to go. Try upping the difficulty next time, and don't spoil the experience for yourself by looking up optimal builds, losing and the threat of losing are what makes things fun.
>>738142183>coreCore isn't normal at all.
>>738128398There hasn't been a DnD game worth playing since BG2.
>>738142287>Without the trash encountersWithout trash encounters and with proper TB and AI the game would be much better and harder.
>>738142276>>puts on high difficulty>nopeBullshit, you don't need to do anything but play a class to level 20 on Core.>says who? the guide?No you moron, the actual party members you find. They come with classes already pre-selected, and every other party member is in fact a caster with buffs. This isn't icewind dale where you must make all party members from scratch.Even if you WANT a full custom party, it costs money to hire so a new player wouldn't do that.
>you don't need to do anything but play a class to level 20 on Core.
>>738142673>In Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, companions are not absolutely locked into their base classesdamn. I should've read a guide instead of going all in on melee. but then again, I will get mocked on /v/ for reading one. though choices...
>pick nature battle oracle>pick fauchard>pick angel>proceed to have fun with the game with my band of bros Regill, Daeran, Lann and Ulbrig
>>738142850>needing to read a guide to realize that multiclassing every single party member to a non-casting class regardless of their stats is a bad ideaStop being disingenuous.And even if you do this retarded thing, you can just play on normal difficulty and still win, so your argument is still bullshit.
>>738142048>Feeling very underlevelled despite playing everything I found, though.That's a good feeling. Superhero in training or no, you're against several demon lords.
>>738142993should've read a guide to realize buffs are mandatory to bypass high AR in endgame!
>game has infinite possible builds>but everything deals a fuckton of damage if you don't kill it or CC it in one round so you better have a high initiative + DC caster around and a handful minmaxed damage dealers>Also your "tank" better be an AC pyjama tank with mirror image or he'll die to one or two lucky 20s for most of the gameAt this point I'm not even sure if this is a pathfinder or owlcat issue
>Rogue Trader is easily among my favourite RPGs of all times by now>Hate DnD and its derivatives and generic high fantasy in general>Hate Real Time with Pause combat in 75% of games with it that I triedShould I still give those a shot or is it not worth bothering?
I just got to the next act after troll trouble. In worried about my kingdom but it's not like I'm doing hard mode for it. Anything specific I should worry about?
>>738143162Don't worry anon. Out of 11% of people who beat the game only 2% beat Core-Hard, 0.8% Unfair and rest are normal, daring, story etc. The anon is just baiting to keep thread alive because this is the first time we had someone defining trash fights in WotR thread.
>>738131993>damage dealers? A skald to give everyone crazy AB and pounce and a madness/nobility/community cleric with whatever the mythic swift action domain shit is called for Vision of Madness + Guarded hearth>defense? That dude in robes with 4classes is your tank, heavy armor and constitution suck dickYeah, wotr is pretty obtuse
>>738143409Kingmaker is basically a fantasy Rogue Trader, MC is a baron and the story is about weird shit disrupting your rule. And it does have a TB mode you can switch on demand.
>>738143598They added some heavy armor mythic feats in patches tho. Took them five years
>>738142972This but also with my wife
>>738125157I don't get why anyone would have that opinion. Kingmaker's cast are a bunch of one note cardboard people who have to regurgitate their gimmick every other time they open their mouths. The only one that stood out was Jubilost, and that's mostly because his sass was at least situationally relevant. I romanced Valerie and still nearly forgot her name.
so is it better to play TB or RTWP? There is so many trash mobs I often just let my party autoattack them and save TB for bosses
>>738143826>who have to regurgitate their gimmick every other time they open their mouthsSeverely lacking in self awareness I see
>>738136565You could just... not do it unless you want to play the autistic difficulties. Core to hard is pretty doable with single classes or flavorful choices. For example my last run on hard was an aeon inquisitor of Erastil with some levels into cavalier simply because I really liked riding my stag into battle.
>>738143718I doubt heavy armor can compete with crane wing, archmage armor and multiple stats to AC faggotry in such a crazy high wealth campaign
>>738143826>I romanced ValerieI now fully understand why you have your opinion.
>>738143524Kingdom management is basically nothing happens until Act 4. This is when you can be soft locked into dead end. Just don't worry and cheat if you need. Colony management + ship combat > crusade mode slogfest > DOGSHIT > kingdom management
>>738125157I REALLY want to replay this but both kingmakers buffbot and pathfinders early game suck dick
>>7381365653e and later era multi-classing is the worst thing to happen to D&D.Hell if getting rid of AD&D era multi-classing would stop later multi-classing from existing, I'd support it.The whole point of the rigid class system is protectionism of class features and designing around the fantasy of playing a character archetype.Now everyone does everything, at which point might as well be a classless system because that gives you more options to design your character.
>>738143273>At this point I'm not even sure if this is a pathfinder or owlcat issueBoth.Paizo designed their system with a lot of the same flaws of 3.5e, a few different ones, a few fixed ones.Owlcat by upping the power level so high, naturally shows these flaws off.
>>738143826RPGcodexKEKs love Kingmaker's cast because it is boring shit WotR's cast is too popular and fancy.
>>738143948This is a problem with basically any game that uses AC. The fag with no armor scales indefinitely but the guy in armor is locked into whatever the heaviest tier of armor is at. So no armorfag stacks buffs until he's got 300 AC while the heavy armor guy is stuck at 55 AC forever.
>>738143890If you have the option to play both, just play both. It's like saying "should I NOT hit the pause button, i dont want /v/-tards to make fun of me!">>738144086>at which point might as well be a classless system because that gives you more options to design your character.While I can't disagree at how people approach multiclassing in any system as just turning any character into mush that does everything, I do disagree Classless Systems would be better. The ability to make anything you want usually just leads people to be contrarian and make even rigider archetypes and classes anyway. Limitation Breeds Creativity goes both ways, if you give someone a buffet they will just grab what they are most comfortable with if they aren't pushed to experiment. Which at that point just take them to a normal ass restaraunt.
>>738144086Subclasses in 5e try to adress that but still have similiar issues with both sorcerers and paladins dipping warlock or melee clerics going fighter at level1
>>738143949The other options were the orc's sloppy seconds and the tiefling who jumps on your cock immediately and then barely speaks up for the next 80% of the game.
>>7381446045e Subclasses are more a combination of the class glut of 4e, PF1e's Archetypes, and the old Prestige Class system stuffed into one. They were trying to do a lot, but they were very constrained by the feature progression of classes and release schedule of new material, hence why they still kept multiclassing. Ultimately, level-based multiclassing will always have people that do dip levels and the like because there will always be more fantasies than you can make in a splatbook release cycle, and powergaming is eternal. Subclasses can't just resolve that and there's no point is trying to reign in the creativity of players.also its just HORRENDOUS PR to have a game go on for over a decade and not release more than one new class
>>738144398This. There is nothing wrong with dipping. Patfinder/D&D are not pure class fantasy system. It's not like how in Diablo every class has unique spells.
>>738144870>and then barely speaks up for the next 80% of the gameHow to confirm that you didn't play the game
>>738140593>Pillars of Eternity is another RTWP slop game with x2 more trash fights than WOTR except the enemies in PoE actually use their spells, skill, cast buffs, debuffs, switch targets.I think RTWP is actually good in PoE, from being designed from the ground up as an RTWP game it is clear that the design puts a greater emphasis on positioning and mobility, the fact that every melee class has at least one skill for repositioning tells us as much.
>>738144372Was he right?
>>738144965>There is nothing wrong with dippingNow I actually didn't say this. There is something wrong with (level-based multiclass) dipping, and that's how naturally unintuitive it is to anyone not in the know. I think the average player would more likely put more levels in their multiclass than they need to for the sake of character or that a feature sounds too good to pass up that they may not need. And since unlike video games levels are limited, opportunity costs can make or break a player's experiences. Plus it devalues other classes, why have a full sorcerer who asks the party to deal with both spell slots and Sorcery Point recovery when you can dip in it as a Paladin and get much more sustain and longterm planning? And it is something of a headache since you are transcribing two different class features and all they add together, constantly referring to when something is a "Class Level"-mechanic or a "Character-Level" mechanic.This is why as Pathfinder2e player I fell in love with the "Variant Multiclassing" system they stole from 4e. Where your core class is locked in for the whole campaign and you can't miss their core features, but you can use archetypes to edit and exchange your feats. The cost-to-benefit ratios are far more equal and nowhere near as punishing for not knowing proper timing. Dipping is inevitable with any multiclass system, but it is important for RPG devs to minimize the fallout and payoffs for such if they want to keep the value of classes, especially as they exceed past the DPS/Tank/Healer triangle of class design.
>>738144870>and then barely speaks up for the next 80% of the game.I love my autistic wife.
>>738120563I've beaten unfair multiple times and never multi classed. Min maxxers are homosexuals.
>>738145490It's alright, better than the D&D system.
>>738145550The mages are more broken than in bg2>can tank>melee at the same time>CC at the same time>buffs at the same time>spell damage at the same time
>>738145521
>>738145521oh god my heartI skipped the DLC for Kingmaker since Wrath was coming and figured Kalikke couldn't be any more interesting than the flat roster of the base game. I really only knew her from the 2e remake of Kingmaker and even then the Companion Guide doesn't provide much info on...anything, so I just sort of shrugged, even with the whole split personality nonsense there. Now knowing she's THAT autistic, I'm mad I had to get obsessed with Nenio over her. Not even foxbutt would just say that umprompted.
>>738145068It is shame game is such a slog to play.
>>738120231>but barely any builds onlineBecause 90% of the builds in this game are intentionally dysfunctional garbage.
>>738145919I don't get this, despite what >>738140593 claims it has generally fewer and more intentionally designed fights.>>738145773I think that's by design, most of the classes have a variety of valid playstyles that all feel fairly distinct, again, unlike D&D.
>>738145891>I'm mad I had to get obsessed with Nenio over herEw
>>738145891>even with the whole split personality nonsenseOkay so in the 2E tabletop they actually changed things from how she is in the game. In the game her sister and her are distinct individuals and not multiple personalities inhabiting the same body, they both have their own body, if you get the red sister pregnant the blue sister won't be pregnant yet, its just they swap between one being in Gloarion and the other being in a demi-plane. A god granted the blue sister a wish to save the red sister and the terms of the deal was only one of the sisters could exist at a given time, prior to finding an artifact that lets them control when they swap in was random and the swap could happen at any time, even mid-conversation. Also when they're in the demi-plane time doesn't exist so they don't perceive being stuck in the demi-plane they just jump forward in time from their perspective, like one second you're in a fight with goblins the swap happens, and then suddenly its a week later and you're a dinner with a bunch of people you don't recognize and they're eagerly awaiting for you to deliver the punchline to a joke you were telling.
>>738146081The world of PoE is very dull. The pacing is awful and there is nothing interesting except for the main quest and DLC. But when you know the story the only shining grace is DLC combat encounters. Everything else in the game is soulless filler content.
>>738145891Kalikke is nothing like Nenio, if you're looking for that kind of unfunny autism you won't find it with her
>>738144398>The ability to make anything you want usually just leads people to be contrarian and make even rigider archetypes and classes anyway.I agree. But i tend to think the way to solve that is keeping a level system, make it so you can't 100% design your character/class from the start, but have to make decisions as you level. It can be a very wide range of decisions, varying with previous stats/skills, but it should force people to make choices.White room theory crafting will never go away and you can't work around that, but for players it can lead to a lot more thinking about what they've experienced in the campaign so far, to alter their future choices.Or maybe I'm too optimistic, because I know a lot of players of both RPGs and CRPGs who would never adjust their build.
>Human>Male>Angel>Radiance (turned into a greatsword)>romance Arueshalae and have several hybrid children with her
>>738146963Your point about the story is kind of an issue with every RPG on replays. Personally I think the classes are varied enough in playstyle for it to remain fun for a while. I think it's got a decent length too, certainly not as bad as the Owlcat PF games in terms of bloat.
>>738120231I’ll probably try this but I’m a little hesitant because it sounds more like a microsoft excel simulator than a roleplaying game. >just play on the humiliation ritual easy mode No.
>>738148637It's not a roleplaying game, it's a combat simulator with badly designed encounters and the occasional CYOA section.
>>738148637You don't have to play easy mode at all. You only really need autism for the highest difficulties. Understanding the underlying game mechanics is the most important thing anyway.
>>738143162>buffs are mandatory to bypass high AR in endgame!Or you can play on normal, where you don't need to do any of that.
>>738143593I'm not defending trash fights, retard. The trash fight complaints have nothing to do with the "hurr you must read a guide or you can't win" bullshit.
>>738143273>but everything deals a fuckton of damageOr you can play on normal/core
>>738149513even on normal you can run into bosses that have 40-50 AC before the endgame
>YOU MUST MULTICLASS>YOU MUST PREBUFF>YOU MUST READ THESE AUTISTIC RULESI'll just set up the difficulty here to "Normal" and not worry about any of that ok? Ok.
what's the most noob friendly party?
>>738149729pet classes+ someone that can AOE buff + flanking perks
>>738149643A normal-ass fighter with sword and shield and starting strength of 16 is gonna be able to hit that though at that point tho, just based on magic items you find and mythic bullshit. You'd have to try really hard to fuck up to not hit that in WoTR.
>>738149909>>738149643Also lets be clear that its basically impossible to NOT have buffs in wotr. If we're assuming little timmy the 8 int child is playing the game, he's gonna go human male fighter with angel mythic which WILL give timmy a bunch of overpowered buffs. At that point choosing to not use any of your special abilities and then going "but I didn't know I need to use my mythic abilities to beat the game, bad game needs guide" is pure trolling.
>>738149729Seelah and Sosiel are the single biggest power boosters to your party, everyone else is kind of interchangeable.
>>738120231pathfinder is ironically mechanically very complex but not particularly deepencounter design is mostly about whether you've prepared for whatever bullshit the enemy's got in your combat prebuffs, IE if the enemy is stacked up on mirror image you need true seeing or if they try to level drain you you need to death ward, that kind of thing. you and your companion's builds are way less important in comparison
>>738148314Based
The numbers get so insanely high that sometimes shit dosnt even matter. Your +2 to hit means shit when the 14 minions around you have 86 AC that you still have to roll a d20 for. Thats not exaggeration either.
>>738120231ANY build is viable for normal play. Your actions and equipment mean just as much if not more than your class. Just pick whatever sounds fun. You can change it whenever.
>>738150135I liked BG3’s positioning and environmental variables, made it feel more alive than if you just did a dps check.
>>738149909>16 strength>hitting against 50 ACyeah, only on 20's.
>>738130336>>738130879>Dawnsbury DaysI started playing it and it is indeed pretty fun, but holy shit I had forgotten how infuriating it is to miss every attack and then watch as the enemy keeps rolling 19s and 20s.
>>738150434Not really a problem considering APR and the fact that the game abounds in magical weapons and armor. Not to mention all the ASIs you'll have by that point.
I like trash encounters. I'm a trash encounter apologist.
>>738150434Have you tried reading?>just based on magic items you find and mythic bullshit.16 STARTING strength in case you're too dumb to understand.
>>738150270That's genuinely Pathfinder plays like. If after everything the game gives you the only thing you can scrounge up is a +2 bonus, you kinda asking for it.>>738147846Outside of the fact that's how feats in Pathfinder function in general, most classless systems like GURPS and the like do try to have similar guard rails. It just the fact classless systems don't really make for interesting storytelling when there's multiple people around. Furthermore, they require a really discerning eye for busted ass combos, which I haven't seen any classless TTRPG accomplish. In vidya terms, its sort why the arena shooter died to the Class-Based Shooter which died to the Hero Shooter/MOBA. The lack of balance or a visible design sense for such leads to a lot of poeple hopping off and looking for a more structured idea.>>738150718Avoid swinging for the fences, try to focus on getting one attack as accurate as possible over multiattacking. PF2e clamps down on the prebuffing nonsense but it doesn't mean you shouldn't amp up your attacks. >>738147535Genuinely disappointing to hear...
>>738150739Trash encounters can be ok, but the problem is that they're used in excess in the pathfinder and pillars of eternity games.BG2 had trash encounters but not as many.>>738150848>Avoid swinging for the fences, try to focus on getting one attack as accurate as possible over multiattacking. PF2e clamps down on the prebuffing nonsense but it doesn't mean you shouldn't amp up your attacks.I started doing better when I switched the rogue to be melee and had him help flank. Still very swingy, but level two made it much better.
>>738120231>there is a milion different classes in this gameThere is 6: thief, divine caster, arcane caster, warrior, monk and pet user.And each has a gorillion variants with the exact same playstyle.
>>7381509493 or 4 actually, namely DC caster, martial, blaster (includes ranged martial) and possibly buffer, though this usually pulls double duty with one of the others.
>>738121728I'm guessing you haven't played this particular game on hard or above.There are many passives that enable builds that require selecting other passives and dipping into other classes. You would not know this without a guide.On hard you don't need it if your builds are logical, but on unfair you absolutely do and even then it might not be enough.
>>738150949I'd argue thief and monk are just offbrand warrior since they both ultimately about hitting the enemy with a weapon. Even the casters are essentially doing the same thing.
>>738150949i mean, "WARRIOR" is kinda not that simple, archer is warrior, thrower with 2 throwing weapons is warrior, man with sword+shield is warrior, man with glaive on horse is a warrior. STR warrior is one thing, DEX warrior is another thing, magus that gets INT into attack is caster but warriorkinetic is a class too
>>738151163>but on unfair you absolutely do and even then it might not be enough.Not really though, the only thing you need to beat unfair is to either:>learn to kite up until mid-labyrinth>abuse charges on cavalier(s) up until mid-labyrinth>pick a pet class on everyone at level 2 and steamroll
ive finished the inn defence on unfair and am lvl5 but now like seelah the tiefling and one more are dead and its getting kinda tedious prebuffing ad nauseam before every single fight. any fullproof rush party comps?
Has anyone here played unfair?Is it actually a fun challenge or is it just tedious?Do you actually have to dipfag to beat the early-game or are you fine?I recently beat the game on hard and am thinking of maybe doing unfair on my next run
>>738150718I know people get upset when you show them how the sausage is made, but an amateur indie games like that is probably giving you real probabilities, but people don't like real probabilities, they actually like your game better when you fudge the numbers in their favor. For example if you're secretly always rolling with advantage, and the enemies are always rolling with disadvantage but the game never tells you this they just do it under the table and never say a word about it anywhere people just think the game "feels" better even if they can't articulate why. They see 50% chance to hit the enemy, but actually its a 75% chance, and that enemy trying to hit you, game says 50% chance, but really its actually 25%. Oh and if that next hit will be fatal, there's a 50% chance it'll miss. If you tell them about it, they hate it, but if they don't know its there they love it, and the extra bonus is because it fucks with their sense of what a 80% chance is they start to prefer the lie to the reality, it warps their perception of what a 20% 40% 60% 80% ect chance feels like and just how probable or improbable it is, so when they play a game with real probabilities again they're like "yuck, why am I rolling so poorly, and why is the enemy always rolling 19s and 20s, goddamn it"
>>738124814This image is stupidThere is nothing you need 100+ ac to tankBut there are 50+ dc effects that you need to avoidYour ab is also fairly mediocre for an "optimised" character
>>738151374>Has anyone here played unfair?Yes.>Is it actually a fun challenge or is it just tedious?Crazy tedious and not worth it.>Do you actually have to dipfag to beat the early-game or are you fine?No, but far from every class is viable at the early game.>>738151347Kineticist is probably your best bet.
>>738151324>the only thing you need to beat unfair is toKiting by itself won't save you on unfair if you don't have very strong builds.As for the other two, how would you know these things without having played the game prior or using a guide?
what should I pay greybor after killing the dragon?
>>738151551>Kiting by itself won't save you on unfair if you don't have very strong builds.No, but by the midpoint fairly straight-forward builds are beginning to increase to a power level where things become more manageable.>As for the other two, how would you know these things without having played the game prior or using a guide?Experimentation, we're talking about the first ~10 minutes of the game after all.
>>738151583Nothing
>>738150718Make sure to check class modsThere are a few new classes, feats and the like to grab from steam workshopAlso, ]why the fuck are there so many ponyfags and trannies in the workshop?
>>738151347>its getting kinda tedious prebuffingUse the Bubble Buffs mod. The number of buffs you need on unfair will get worse; you'll spend multiple minutes before each fight tediously clicking buffs. With bubble buffs you can activate all buffs with one or two clicks.
>>738120231You will be grabbing the same shit regardless of your class that’s why there aren’t that many builds because it’s as deep as a puddle.
>>738121020If I keep replying to you will you keep posting cute anime girls? Could you post one with cute feet?
>>738130772>human nenio>female avatar>disingenous webm
>>738151374>Do you actually have to dipfag to beat the early-game or are you fine?you don't really need to DIP on unfair, only maybe on main damage dealer. but you will need more bufferslike paladin with mark of justicehellknight with smite chaospriest like gay sosiel with guarded hearth brownfur transmutatorso you literally need everything as usual+some cocksuckers that pulls 1 buffs, that you can use 1 time per day, that gives like, +10 accuracy +10 damage and +10 armor against 1 superbosseverything else is like usual. But you can make just 1 character who will be paladin+hellknight combo or something, with lots of str+charisma, use smite evil, use smite chaos and attack boss.but then again you will need buffs, +someone to hex+someone to break buffs on enemy.
>>738151583having more class quests is worth more than gold. Just hire him even if you don't plan to ever use him so you can do his act 4 and 5 questsif 13k gold is too much for you to pay at that point in the game what the fuck are you doing, stop being poor
>>738151648>Experimentation, we're talking about the first ~10 minutes of the game after all.I think you're severely suffering from hindsight bias.How can you possibly know "within the first 10 minutes of the game" that Cavalier charges are strong? There are dozens of classes you can choose at the beginning of the game; how can you test out the mechanics of each and every one to discover Cavalier charges within 10 minutes?How do you know how strong pets become throughout the game within the first 10 minutes? How would you know to immediately level each of your party members to have a pet at the beginning of the game?Maybe you're not as clever as you think you are.
>>738151847none of those things are available early game
>>738151904Like most people I didn't play unfair on my first run. But I could conceivably see someone restarting and then figuring these things out as they run into a brick wall at like the second tunnel fight.
>>738151847so, literally there are one spell with that you can make bosses more simple but for this to use you need special full wisdom priest, who will cast this shit for you on bosses. and, like, only on bosses.
>level 20 fighter/slayer/alchemist or fucking anything>level 20 paladin>level 20 shaman>level 20 cleric>level 20 ranger>level 10 wizard level 10 loremaster (prestige class for spellcaster that makes sense and fits)this clears unfair seethe about it
>>738150718>>738151679Is there a way to gestalt in this? Either via cheats/mods/whatever. The way I've come to enjoy pathfinder is cranking the difficulty up to unfair but rolling with a gestalt.
>>738151991>I didn't play unfair on my first run... That's why I specifically asked how someone could know these things without having played the game prior.
>>738152089Toybox
i tried kingmaker and filtered me by how boring it is, is wotr more of the same? never happened to me with a crpg before
>>738152076To be honest I think a skald is a stronger choice than a wizard unless you the player are a DC caster lich. Otherwise agreed.
>duuuuuuuude you have to dip to tank>even though a wolf can easily tank with just a few buffs>like shield of faith + barkskin + bonefists + animal growth + legendary proportions + ac equipment + magic vestements if they wear armor + dodge feats + minor bonuses like haste, order of the godclawWooooooow that was hard
>>738151939well you can make brownfur arcanist from beginning, he already gives better buffs than anyone else. like, Enlarge Person, or Bull Strength.
>>738152118I didn't do it myself, but I could see someone conceivably coming up with it after restarting a while. Either that or having played Kingmaker before.
>>738151996>>738151847The highest difficulties in Owlcat games are so shit. Just adds tons of boring tedium and effectively transforms the game from an RPG into the gayest puzzle game ever made.
>>738152162I mean in Dawnsbury, not Wrath. I played through wrath like 9 times and my last 3 playthroughs were with Gestalts.I just really love combining two classes at once, its so much fun and adds so much to the system, and its just fun mashing two classes together and seeing how they work together. I don't think I'll ever play non-gestalt in Pathfinder again.
>>738149513I did play on normal.
>>738136565I agree with you but luckily it is a single player game that has difficulty settings. You prefer roleplaying and flavor over power like I do, and you can still multi class in a thematically fitting way. For example I once multi classed a Cavalier of the Paw (halfling only Cavalier subclass that rides on a dog) with the Divine Hound subclass (hunter subclass that can only pick dog for a pet and gets to magically buff the dog into a gigadog)The end result was a funny little knight riding around on a giant demon dog, laying waste to everything in their path. It was great flavor and great roleplay, and it was good enough to beat the game on normal difficulty without too much frustration.
3.X / Pathfinder 1 video game style multiclassing has no justification or presence in tabletop.It's neverwinter night's fault. The online community surrounding that game took 3.0 autism and ran with it and owlcat is very much influenced by it. >>738131932You're telling people to just wing builds to hit monsters with Armor Classes in the 70's when you tell them to just have fun bro on core.I think you're delusional about how much foreknowledge you're carrying into these games so you're utterly wrong about how much a new player needs to read to get to a workable level.
>>738151996The best spells for dealing with bosses are actually greater invisbility and dispel magic greaterGI lets you target their flat footed ac and also gives you a +2 concealment bonus often giving you a 15+ boost to ab and also lets you deal sneak attack damage more easily. This works against almost everything until act 5And then you can dispel their buffs to drop their ac by 10 or more and remove annoying effectsGuarded hearth is amazing but the once per day limit is really annoying unless you know exactly where to use it in every map. I would rather just struggle to beat them than use it 95%+ of the time and end up not using it at all
>>738151847AND by the way, to add to the buffers, we need scald, yea. so optimall party is like, 1 divine buffer, (oracle priest capellan)1 arcane brownfur1 scald/bard (preferably scald)1 shaman/witch (shaman is better)and kinda 2 damage dealers, one of them should be tank, or someone with pet that would be tankthis leaves us with like, 1 damage dealer. AND then we need off-party paladin+hellknight, for mark of vengeance, and another off-party priest for guarded hearththis is it.
>>738120437Does >Kingmaker >Rogue Trader have a similar degree of easy-to-fix-fuckup respecs? Creation during Rogue Trader seems to be a pretty significant distinction between what seems like a cool RP concept and what may actually be effective in game when it comes down to it
>>738151347>prebuffing You'll have to prebuff for all the game, get buffbot from nexus to setup whatever you want to cast at the start of your adventuring day and a different list for short duration buffs. You can get away with casting haste or something at the start of combat but you won't get far without at least precasting long duration buffs (1minute per level or longer)>foolproof party compGet a skald, give him high initiative or start singing 1round before combat. A couple high DC casters, brown transmuter arcanist is a good fit. Can't be bothered breaking down all spell schools so go illusion and evocation but focus on CC not damage.You can also go waves Oracle for freezing spells. I'm not sure if owlcat fixed it in my playthrough or it was a mod. Evo/Ench oracle is amazing, staggering full rooms while dealing damage is too good to pass up and oracle's enchanting spell list is great too. You just need to round up your spell list with blackened curse, gear and loremaster.Then add whatever damage dealers you want.A tank will help but you can also brute force trash fights with concealment and mirror images
>>738152608There is an argument to use Ember over Cam due to Ember being specalised in ray attacks and hitting touch acYour party has no characters that can target it and deal magic damage. So you'll sit on your hands with that setup whenever you face something immune to physical damage. The phylactry ring can only be used on one person per roundIf you bring Daeren or Sosiel along (or play oracle or cleric yourself) you already get the pet
>>738152608>and kinda 2 damage dealers, one of them should be tank, or someone with pet that would be tankShaman can do all that in addition to acting as a buffer/debuffer. I think the brownfur is actually rather redundant as most of the critical buffs can also be provided by skald or an alchemist (which both also function decently as DPS)
>>738152089I remember playing with free archtype feats from a modIt's not true gestalt but I think that's how pf2 handles gestalt
>>738120231>Million different classesIn reality, there are 4 archetypes and dozens of sub-variants. Fighter, Wizard, Thief, Cleric. Everything else is a modification of these basic archetypes. And only a handful of actual sub-classes are viable for harder difficulties.Just do yourself a favor and play Cavalier, just charge and one-shot niggers with crit cleaves.
>>738152686Kingmaker also lets you respec at the Pathfinder Society contact and Rogue Trader lets you respec characters at the ship merchant. In Rogue Trader the cost is a little higher because after you do one "free" respec every future respec costs you a permanent reduction of your "profit factor" which is an important resource you want to build up
>>738151996>resistance>competenceGuarded hearth got nerfed to the ground
>>738152608>>738152720Why are Skalds so highly recommended? I've seen this opinion before in WotR threads and never really bothered to find out why
>>738120231All WotR characters are either attack bonus builds or save DC builds so just make one of those.
>>738152748BUT witch's spellbook is bad, witch doesn't have haste, barkskin, resist energy, mass heal, oceanic mantle and other buffs that can be useful. especially haste. So, shaman can buff, and hex, and dispell. im not sure if ANYTHING in this game is literally immune to physical damage.
>>738152890>viable
>>738152601>greater invisbility my frontline>enemies walk past them and one hit my castersMaking dispel magic work is almost impossible in this fucking game, even with the "roll 20 on dispel checks" googles you'll fail all the time vs bossesThe only dispeler I've managed to make work was an arcanist lich with all the dispel feats.
>>738152818nah, shaman would be staying casting hexes, and dispelling magic on bosses. though, new shaman class, with pet is nice and can tank yea, but that would not Camelia, but custom character.
>>738152960Arcane buffs + shares barbarian powers and rage bonus + 3/4 BAB so can provide DPS themselves.Alternately a unique stacking buff for DC casters if court poet.
>>738151996>literally there are one spell with that you can
>>738153123You can do that with Camellia using one of the mythic abilities to get her a pet. Also, you can certainly get attacks in while waiting to refresh hexes and you can stack AC very high on a shaman.
>OH BOY I CAN'T WAIT TO RECOMMEND A BUILD THAT COMES ONLINE AT LEVEL 16
>>738152960they have a buff aura like bards that give a really good buff that stacks with a lot of stuff, plus they can grant useful rage powers like Greater Beast Totem that lets your allies do full attack when they charge, plus their spell list has good buffs
>>738125157I liked WotR's cast more. Only really like Tristan from Kingmaker. I missed Jubilost, maybe he was good, too. I also missed out on Woljif and Nenio in WotR, come to think of it.
>>738152960Grants to the whole party:Inspire rage (untyped attack bonus)Lethal stance (competence attack bonus)Lethal accuracy (+1 critical multiplier)Animal totem (natural armor and pounce)On top of being a decent, if squishy, frontliner thanks to medium bab, mirror image and other spells to help your arcane caster save spell slots.
>>738152960so literally, scald takes lots of barbarian skills and share all of them to all party with song, granting bonuses that you cannot get elsewhere
>>738153346Jubilost at least has a cameo appearance in WotR
>>738153251>oh you want to build [martial class]?>have you considered dipping into monk, vivisectionist, mutagenic warrior, and blood rage? it really helps [class]
>>738152923Good to know; t he Rogue Trader thing makes sense but it also means that you basically need to commit early on and stick with it and hope it works out. The one thing about Pathfinder (at least in Owlcat games) that seems odd to me is dipping into classes that have no RP potential for my character to get some sort of technical synergy or whatever. The anon up there who listed >Studying the bladeand had like Duelist, Aldori Defender, Aldori Swordlord, makes sense. But the other guy had some sort of >Monk + Mutation Warrior + 1 level of Stigmatized Witch that makes me think you either have a VERY unique RP style or someone is optimizing for certain mechanics. It gets even more strange when the Heroic stuff comes into play, like someone being an Angel, Vivisectionist, and 3 level of Winter Witch or something is a strange combination for an actual character
>>738153730>Good to know; t he Rogue Trader thing makes sense but it also means that you basically need to commit early on and stick with it and hope it works out.Not really, accruing enough profit factor to buy literally every item in the game is easy and it's largely useless other than for resolving random events requiring a pithy amount after that.
>>738153809I'll take your word for it; I guess that's the kind of thing you either learn ahead of time or you find out way way too fucking late you gimped yourself?
>>738153907A respec costs like 1 PF after the first free one and you probably will have finished your first archetype before realizing you fucked up, since the first real skill check is the chapter boss that you face at like level 15 typically.
>>738153054they fixed that with the dlcs adding dispel focus and greater dispel focus to get a +4 to checksnenio can easily get a +8 or something to greater dispel magic scrolls as well not to mention that only a few enemies have 40+
>>738136565This. I dont mind basic shit like fighter/rogue, but if you ever go shit like Paladin/Scaled Fist/Oracle/Ninja/Dragon Disciple/Bard, fuck you, you are the worse cunt than theatre kids
For me, it's the humble Cavalier (Gendarme) 20 Two-handed Fighter 20 Legend
>>738155217jobs to areelus 50 dc spells
>>738155217This but barbarian instead of cavalier >>738155592Skill issue
>>738153907It's not a difficult game, although I guess on your first playthrough it may not be very obvious what sort of upgrades are good. But really, don't worry about it too much, even if you will decide to respecc it's not that big of a deal. Maxing out your profit factor isn't necessary unless you want to make sure you'll be able to buy every single most expensive item and colony project in the game (some of them are cool, but they are definitely not something you really need)
>>738145546This man's mommy is very proud of her smart little gamer.
>>738120231Every class is good (enough) without multiclassing save for you doing beyond core difficulty in which case you actually need to be prepared and have a good build going on. They all have different mechanics, you just have to read over what every type of bonus is before you choose and it's that simple. Of course, there's a lot of esoteric nonsense like getting a trip horse/wolf to rofl stomp the game or getting a dedicated buffbot, but that's not necessary before core. Even then, Camellia gives you plenty of buffs and has summons to tank
>>738131171>22 levelsHow do you fit that on the guy?
>>738158081Legend
>>738144372It's only *really* a problem in Pathfinder because it's super easy to go above 20 in a stat and because light armor is much more OP, everyone is roughly equally hard to hit in 5E DnD but then you're playing 5E so it kind of is retarded.>>738145490Sort of, not really. The main issue with Pillars is the godawful roll 100 system it uses for attacks that make it so that you only need high deflection to actually tank properly, damage is so high on a crit or a hit anyway that high health is kind of meaningless so the only stats you ever truly need are>Perception to get better hit chances>Dex for action speed>Might/Int depending on the class and what it's meant to do>A bit of resolve for more deflectionBecause deflection is based off of your class and if you have a shield, only certain classes can tank. Ironically, this didn't fix shit because Shield Rogue is the best dodge tank in the game, just kind of squishy. Few attacks can OHK though so you can just pump healing. It's not quite a solveable problem unless you make armor about damage mitigation chiefly rather than avoidance, because avoidance is always better than taking less damage except when you just die
>>738158176Legend is kind of cheating if your build needs it to function tbqh but thank you, I understand now
>>738158361>light armorIs dogshit in pathfinder.It goes noarmor(pajamatank) > heavy armor > medium armor > light armor.
>>738120231There are very few subclasses that are outright shit so you're like 90% fine if you just randomly pick up and take it to 20
Step 1. Pick kineticistStep 2. Pick fire, then earth, then fireStep 3. Bowl everything to the ground Step 4. blue flame everything on the ground to deathCongratulations you have beated da game
>>738152118anon don't bother arguing with people like this lol
>>738155592>jobs to someone who won't get a turnOkay?
>>738120231That's why rogue trader is better for me:All classes are good (maybe 1 is underpowered), are more easy combine and you don't have to "dip" to other classes.Plus, you don't have to spam buffs every 5 seconds, you don't waste time fighting small battles, for the better or worse feeling more like an rpg at the expense of gameplay and you dont have "that part".Commorragh is not bad and even if it is, is not than long like "that parts" on kingmaker or wotr.
>>738160031Commorragh gets a bit tedious towards the end, but I actually loved how it hits you right once you really start becoming powerful and feeling like hot shit and then it initially humbles the fuck out of you>All classes are goodEh, heavily debatable to be honest, but every character is certainly at least useful. Haven't played after the big balance patch few months back yet thoughBut yeah, the overal feel of combat is great
>>738153442you only really need this on unfair and only really early on before more pure builds come online or you get more items. you can go back to something sensible later
>>738160031And then you hit act 2 and battles get reduced to rocket tag.
>started playing KM>kinda wanna talk shop and theorycraft and shit>game is like three games out of date so there's never any threadsFeels bad man
>>738161250 We exclusively talk about waifus here
>>738160927Sorry that your Abelard can fight 8 melee enemies, counter all of them and then tank ranged attacks.>>738160396Same, at the end of act 2 you have an idea of your builds, in act 3 you learn how they work without your items and after that with exemplar + items you have fun being OP.
>>738161947That's been a problem with cRPGs since BG2.
>>738162059Problem?
>>738161250It's so much more chill than wotr due to the enemy variety, really just fey are a problem needing to be solved.
million different classes, but to play on core difficulty or higher you need to play meta.
