you boughted the game.

tendies kept buying despite the noticeable drop in quality after each entry

>>738122271
Refuses to release more mature games to keep up with its aging audience. By “mature” I mean a game with a 20-year- old as the protagonist instead of the usual 10-year-olds. Red and Gold were adult-coded.

>>738122271
they peaked with platinum

>>738122271
>gen 5 newmons
>several generations of rehashing the formula
>dexbloat & dexits
>release pacing set by franchise corpos to match multimedia
>switching to 3d
>last several gens have been slop

>>738122271
It's fan base it's what went wrong. Pokémon is CoD/Fifa tier but it's fan base it's composed of the a huge amount of people with battered woman syndrome and bootlickers than any other franchise. The games keep getting worse but people keep buying, defending and excusing everything, they excused almost no post-game, excused dexit, excused all the cuts being throw around, excused the overpriced DLC, hell they even excused the mess which is Champions.

>>738122271
They made too much money, they don't have to try anymore.

Black White 2 was the last good pokeslop game

>>738123947
Unlike other popular games that have gone to shit, there aren't really any good alternatives to Pokemon. You have indie clones, but those are usually even worse than a typical Pokemon game.

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Platinum was the last good pokemon game, despite a lot of the gen 4 designs being really questionable,
inb4 HGSS
>lets take gen 2 but make it more handholdy and censored

>>738122271

Not enough focus on the beloved spinoffs which causes franchise fatigue..
Pokemon Conquest
Pokemon TCG (the single player one)
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon

Same problem with Final Fantasy btw.

>>738124101
Legends Arceus was good, but that's because it was based on Platinum.

Game Freak realized that they can shit in a bag and slap a Pikachu face on it and it'll still sell like blowjobs on Two Dollar Blowjob Tuesday.

>>738124147
>Legends Arceus was good
It was one of the most enjoyable pokemon games I have ever played and then they decided to do the complete opposite of fun and create Legends ZA

>>738122271
Dunno but I'm playing Emerald rogue and it's fun

>>738124283
>then they decided to do the complete opposite of fun and create Legends ZA
same desu, proof that there's no hope. the next several pokegames are going to be slopshit just like the last ones, it's all they know how to do.

>>738124448
the next one is based on Galar, fucking galar

Gen 5 didn't sell as well so they gave up on making good games.
Turns out all people really cared about were the pokemon designs.

>>738124493
but gen 5 had good designs

>>738122271
they kept making games after gen2

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>>738124474
Game Freak are going out of their way to ignore Unova.

>be gamefreak
>release new pokemon booster boxes
>watch everyone kill themselves over it

The hatred for Gen 5 is why pokemon fans deserve slop. They finally stepped out of their comfort zone to make something new and gamefreak was punished by their manchildren fans who cant let the 90s go.

Palworld lost

>>738122271
You didn't stop playing after you were 11

>>738122271
Switch to 3D causing dexit. Obviously no design rule set about what can and can't be a pokemon. Gimmicks instead of added depth. All around laziness.

Palworld won

>>738124608
The second SV DLC took place in Unova.

>>738123867
>dexbloat
Started with gen 3 desu.

>still popular with kids
>thriving community of manchildren card collectors, scalpers and investors
>all merch sells out instantly
>massive game sales gen after gen
they won

>>738122271
got too big to fail. you need to understand the games aren't even close to the biggest revenue stream of the franchise, they could ship a game even the most forgiving poketendie on planet earth rejects and still be fine after a symbolic bug in anus humiliation session for the game director responsible.

>>738124875
Why would switching to 3D cause it any more than if they kept 2D sprites? The first 2 full 3D gens had every Pokemon, and 90% of the assets were recycled for the Switch games. Not to mention they'd be making up-to-date 3D models for every Pokemon for use in marketing.
Reminder that Game Freak doesn't actually handle those assets.

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>>738124984
>they could ship a game even the most forgiving poketendie on planet earth rejects
They did.

>>738122271
>What went wrong?
You

>>738124050
There are many Pokemon ROM hacks out there made by dedicated autists that prove you can still make a good Pokemon game.

>>738122271
The pokemon mainline games where always bad for anyone older than 10. Extremely easy games, but also requiring grinding if you want to play competetive PvP.

Champions is the best thing that happened with pokemon. A low power level, fresh meta with no IVs and no grinding.

>>738125282
There are, but like most RPGs they're pretty much strictly singleplayer. A large portion of Pokemon's longevity is trading, battling, and transferring. It's been all one big platform for the past 20 years, and people are invested in that.

>>738124969
Eeeeehhhhh... not really.

Pokemon has been consistently mid the whole time. Nothing changed, Gamefreak has been phoning it in for decades because people keep buying the slop.

>>738123691
They almost did this with Pokemon Colosseum but immediately course corrected with the sequel.

>>738122271
Is every zoomer who started with Gen 5 more competitively aware than the genwunners?

>>738124050
theres pokemon showdown. it takes the best part of pokemon, which is the strategic battling system, pushes it to its limit by pitting you against the most challenging opponents (real people), and cuts out all of the bullshit. i dont understand why people even WANT a new pokemon games when showdown delivers the most streamlined possible experience of the best part of the games.

>>738125902
Because a huge part of the fanbase is actually here for the adventure and the pokemon themselves.

>>738125902
>i dont understand why people even WANT a new pokemon games when there is showdown
people don't play pokemon for solely battling other people
they want new experiences, new pokemon, expanded lore

>>738122271
3d. Never should've left top-down.

>>738126005
im sorry but those people are simply retarded then. the adventures have always sucked. they were maybe fun the first time round when you were 8, but then they were the exact same thing every single time

competitve pokemon is a great strategic online game. the pokemon adventures are press the a button over and over again simulators, with a story written for 8 year olds.

>>738122271
fuck if i know, i'm not a tendie

>>738126134
>im sorry but those people are simply retarded then. the adventures have always sucked
>they were maybe fun the first time round when you were 8, but then they were the exact same thing every single time
People don't really care about fun or not desu. It's more about new knowledge of the world. New pokemon, type combinations, abilities, moves, gimmicks..
Which also affects the competitive scene. Showdown will always adopt the official version rules anyway.

>>738126265
well thats my point. we get all the new stuff in showdown too, so i dont give a fuck about the actual games.

>>738122271
Too successful, and too many conditioned consoomers that will pay top dollar for anything pokemon
More specifically, too much bloat mons, conflicting lores that come from bloat, too many different gimmicks from trying to reinvent the wheel when the wheel was perfectly fine as was, jumping from 2D to 3D "limiting" the space for animations that provided so much soul like as seen in that polemon stadium thread from a couple days ago, and retroactively conforming previous mons to ditch the cool or cute aesthetics of the first 2 or 3 gens in favor of a softer, more streamline style that's perfect for minimalist designed toys and various other merchandise

TL;DR, pretty much every fucking thing
t. 8 y o @ pokemania ground zero, that at least completed every gen campaign until gen 7

>>738126467
Well if you played the games you get to experience the new stuff first while Showdowners gotta wait
And some things are banned in showdown as well
I'm not downplaying Showdown, btw

Pokemon stopped having anything to prove after Gen 3. Which led to then getting really lazy for decades

>>738126134
Okay but what if i dont care about competitive? What if i do want to play a dumbed down press a to win simulator? What then?

>>738126659
>And some things are banned in showdown as well
Maybe for Smogon rulesets, but that's far from the only playable format on Showdown.

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>>738126107
Many things but this is the main one. Pokemon never truly picked up after jumping to 3D. The games lost so much personality with the generic 3D animations and reused assets.

Everything

>>738126659
jokes on you, showdown is ran by extremely autistic developers who work unpaid 18 hour shifts to get the updates sorted in less than a couple days. but even if that weren't the case, i genuinely wouldnt care about having to wait a couple months or whatever for the new content. it doesnt make a difference.

>>738126732
if thats what you want to do im completely fine with that so long as you are willing to admit you have shit taste. i can admit when i enjoy shitty movies or tv or whatever, no one only consumes high quality content all the time. just be honest with yourself about it.

>>738122271
Game Freak is a small indie studio and they don’t get paid very much, making gameu very hard, please understand

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>>738122271
No new Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games because Gamefreak is afraid of being shown up again

>>738126963
it's funny seeing a showdown user thrashing on the main games, it's like a kid hating their parents for birthing them

>>738122271
stop buying tendie shit and the games will get better

>>738127205
I haven't bought a Switch game in about 5 years. When does it get better?

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Zoroark

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>>738123748
>>738124101
These. Platinum was superb and no surprise that BDSP dropped the ball.

Overall, a few points can be made to where it went wrong:
>Gen V getting a lot of backlash because B/W made you use new Pokemon, which was a great direction to go in, but people wanted their Pikachus and Charizards
>GameFreak not really learning the hardware and the lack of optimization with later titles
>The jump to 3D and it shows with how older Pokemon were made with 2D in mind and every Pokemon from Gen VI onward was made with 3D in mind, the transaction for some Pokemon hurt them a lot more and designing your creatures with 3D in mind also poses limitations
>The design philosophy took a hit too, Pokemon can't be too scary or too 'cool', they intentionally design them to be awkward-looking, which was the case in Gen IV with the editorial on D/P in Nintendo Power's issue on April 2007 but now you really see a massive push to toy-ify the designs
>TPC. Short version, TPC. Long version, TPC has too much sway on what the franchise can and can't do, this means yearly releases at the time last decade, pushing a Pokemon that may not click with the public and doing dumb shit like mandating Ash to lose every league among other things. Never let businessmen take over your franchise
>Gen I pandering starting in 2013, going into full swing in 2016, and I speak as someone who was neck-deep in Pokemania at its peak, it's going to get worse for the 30th anniversary
>No competition or a threat of being dethroned means they need not try to make a good game.
>#ThankYouGameFreak
That last point was the real killing blow. THAT legitimately turned me off from the franchise.

>>738126585
wtf is that

>>738127205
I haven't bought Pokemon since Gen 7, it hasn't gotten any better, and they have no reason to do any better since what they earn from the games is but a tiny fraction of what they earn from the rest.

>>738127184
its not like that at all though is it, its actually like a person preferring to play a competitive game with strategic depth over a different game thats designed for children with no required strategy or skill. theyre completely different experiences, and its no surprise that people who like one might think the other is boring.
the idea that i owe the original games some kind of loyalty is retarded. i find them boring so i dont play them. its as simple as that.

>>738124283
It's because they abandoned the fun capture mechanics in favor of a shitty real-time battle system.

>>738122271
The fanbase is primarily pedophiles, autistics, furries, manchildren, or a combination of all the above. I've seen women and men in their mid-late 30's who collect fucking funko pops and emulate Reddit out in public by pretending they're still 18, and they're still living in 2009.

>>738127473
so basically you are saying you "grew up" since you said they were fun at first but no more now?
also I take it you are someone who don't care about a game's story/plot/character/worldbuilding whatsoever or maybe just dismiss the Pokemon games as something that will never be good?

>>738127440
That's a Pokémon

>>738127648
>so basically you are saying you "grew up" since you said they were fun at first but no more now?
yes? is this a hard concept for you to understand? people tastes and sensibilities change as they age.

>also I take it you are someone who don't care about a game's story/plot/character/worldbuilding whatsoever or maybe just dismiss the Pokemon games as something that will never be good?
absolutely, i care about gameplay, not some shitty fantasy world. if i want an interesting narrative or story i'll get it from a book or a movie, video games are simply a bad medium for delivering a story.

>>738127807
>yes? is this a hard concept for you to understand? people tastes and sensibilities change as they age.
maybe, but when that taste and personality changed drastically something major must have happened to them

>video games are simply a bad medium for delivering a story
ah I see. Now I get it.

>>738127807
It's not just about the story and whatever though, finding the mons in their natural habitat, capturing them, leveling them up and understanding how to evolve them is also fun.

>>738128010
>maybe, but when that taste and personality changed drastically something major must have happened to them
are you a fucking retard? why do you think they make childrens movies, childrens tv, or entertainment for children in general? do you think its normal for an adult to enjoy childrens tv as much as they did when they were a kid?

>>738128207
so you think those adult video essayists are not normal?
and you posting in this wretched site is considered normal?

>>738128324
>so you think those adult video essayists are not normal?
it depends what the essay is on, but yes, if someone is doing some in depth 2 hour analysis into a childrens media property i think it is weird. and im not even saying that all childrens media properties are bad, i still think pokemon showdown is a good game despite using a childrens media property because it has good gameplay. the same way i think mario games have good gameplay even though they are for children too. the normal pokemon games, however, do not have good gameplay, and so if someone enjoys them then i think they have shit taste. thats all im trying to say.

>and you posting in this wretched site is considered normal?
yes, i think it is normal for talk on discussion boards, it is something that billions of people do every day, whether those boards are called reddit, 4chan, twitter, or something else.

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>>738122271
I love pokemon

>>738128550
>if someone is doing some in depth 2 hour analysis into a childrens media property i think it is weird
well you should know that pokemon games were made by adults who definitely did market research on how to craft a world that can satisfy kids taste (and even adults).

>it is something that billions of people do every day
i don't think normal people does it every day. maybe for Americans it is normal I'm not sure. Seems like a waste of time for a normal person to do so unless they are posting something productive.

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>>738122271
People who only played pokemon to be part of a clique started feeling like their opinions mattered so they started raging out claiming pokemon was a shit based on graphics because they hade no other metric for quality especially since they refuse to play any other games.
Fortunately they're louder than they are abundant so won't have any negative impact that would result in a hyper linear, story focused game with about 150 unique pokemon and 200 recolors like most other monster tamers.

>>738128771
>well you should know that pokemon games were made by adults who definitely did market research on how to craft a world that can satisfy kids taste (and even adults).
theres a massive difference between creating a product targeted at children to generate profit and being a manchild who loves consuming media made for children dumbass.

>>738128771
>i don't think normal people does it every day. maybe for Americans it is normal I'm not sure. Seems like a waste of time for a normal person to do so unless they are posting something productive.
sure its a waste of time, but everyone wastes time, it doesnt mean its not normal. its fun to share and discuss ideas which is exactly why websites like this one, reddit, and twitter have been so popular for years. obviously you can spend your time more productively or more fulfillingly but its still normal to go on social media sometimes.

there should be a 10 year moratorium on new pokemons

>>738129013
>theres a massive difference between creating a product targeted at children to generate profit and being a manchild who loves consuming media made for children dumbass.
there is no difference other than for profit / voluntary. and the latter has the possibility of generating revenue as well. all in all there are research and planning when it comes to analysis, whether it's media you think as childish or not, since it's all subjective

>its still normal to go on social media
i don't think 4chan counts as social media for normal people to use. you might not think the same way but the consensus says so

>>738128793
We had about 10 years of hyper linear story focused games with about 700 unique Pokemon(later reduced to about 200).

>>738122271
Abused franchise with an even more abused fanbase that bends over and asks for more.

>>738122271
gamefreak

While I didn't like gen 4 as much as 3 I'll still give props for keeping the battle frontier.
Gen 5 and onwards removed it so they're shit.

>>738127346
Retarded take.

>Gen 1 was the first, they just set out to make a monster collecting game that was like dragon quest but more marketable to children
>Gen 2 was a sequel that added some new designs and built in the first games
Slop starts here
>Gen 3 is a soft reboot. Less features than the previous games in favor of shiny graphics. More new pokemon, story focused, legendary focused, remakes start.
>Gen 4 solidifying trends. More new pokemon, mostly dex filler of baby's and post game trade evos. Tons of legendaries and mythicals for "events". More remakes.
>Gen 5 is another soft reboot. Remake the gen 1 dex, with new designs.
Soul starts existing the franchise
>Gen 6 switch to 3D. Paint by numbers design. Gimmicks are introduced.
>Gen 7 is pure slop. Lazy gimmick, too many cutscenes, significantly less main game content.
>Gen 8 dexit because they designed too many filler and shitmons over the years. Games start shipping bugged beyong playability, getting patched slowly with updates to run at 30fps.
>Gen 9 is a pure clusterfuck. Games are ugly AND unplayable. Leaked reports show that the budget for the games is less than some indie studios. Most successful franchise in the world cheaps out on their main product.

>>738130235
>Soul starts existing the franchise
**exiting
Sorry

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>>738122271

The community has got some issues.
>The TCG community puts tracking devices on delivery trucks so they can be the first ones to scalp new pokemon card packs when they arrive at the store
>The video game community is a bunch of autists who love the ugly reddit pokemon designs, and they don't see any problem with the shit graphics and low production quality of the games that have a bigger budget than your entire neighborhood
>The merch community is a bunch of nerdy women who think it's "le cute and unique" to have 137 plushes of cleffable in their bedroom
>The movie community is a bunch of normalfags and redditors
>The anime community stopped watching the anime in 2000
Lol.

>>738129232
>there is no difference other than for profit / voluntary. and the latter has the possibility of generating revenue as well. all in all there are research and planning when it comes to analysis, whether it's media you think as childish or not, since it's all subjective
im sorry but you're just a retard, nothing else i can say to this. you sincerely think working to create a childrens entertainment product is the same as consuming said product. you're just supremely retarded.

>>738130235
>mostly dex filler of baby's and post game trade evos
Like Gen II? There were more babies there than Gen IV.
>dragon quest but more marketable to children
Dragon Quest was already for 'children'. Bad argument when you have to use 'for children' as a talking point.

>>738130771
>Like Gen II? There were more babies there than Gen IV.
It's the same amount. 7 for old Pokemon, 1 for a newly-introduced Pokemon.

>>738122271
Literally SuMo was the last "attempt" to make a real Pokemon game. It was downhill already, but after that it has been unsalvageable.

And tendies and pokedrones are way to blinded to say no for once.

>>738122271

I played and looked like a Pokémon game for 30 years

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>What went wrong?
They forgot about the best waifu

>>738122271
nothing
they're more profitable than they've ever been despite making a worse and worse product every time

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>>738130771

>>738130874
So by your logic, Gen II was when the 'slop' started. No, it WAS when the slop started. Designs being more toyetic and simplified and even downsizing the number of monsters too.

>>738131327
All Gen IV did was clean up Gen II's mess of filler mons. Gen II should have bucked up instead of leaning on Gen I so much.

>>738127346
>#ThankYouGameFreak
Did the faggot who started that ever get ‘oxxed, ‘aped and ‘illed? I’m still seeing 6-7 years later

>>738122271
who cares? it's back and it's here to stay

>>738131498
>seeing
For fuck’s sake, SEETHING. SEETHING.
YOU FUCKING RETARDED PHONE.
SEETHING

>>738124493
>[bad game] didn't sell as well so they gave up on making good games
I don't get it

It became a lifestyle brand to sell to betas and fags

>>738131551
gen 5 got absolutely shat on in terms of pokemon designs
and it was released in the later half of the DS' lifespan so it didn't sell as well
then gen 6 comes out and it's an extended advertisement to kanto and charizard and sells much, much better
so that's what it became
repeatedly

>>738122271
When they decided to drop the vibe from Capsule Monsters to a more kid-friendly vibe.
Then Gen1 got massive success and they doubled down in that direction, and kept going forever.

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>>738124147
>Legends Arceus was good
The low, low standards of a gamefreaktard...

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>>738131498
>6-7

Lol.

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>>738131463
Gen 2 introduced 76 new pokemon (excluding babies, legendaries and cross gen evolutions)

Gen 4 introduced 64.

Percentage wise, gen 4 is worse. But they're both similar in actual numbers.

The gen 2 games added a ton compared to gen 1. Gen 3 is where they had less features than previous titles. So I'm saying gen 3 is where it went wrong. Not the anon your replying to, just throwing in my two cents.

>>738131721
It was a hell of a lot better than Let's Go Pikachu / Eevee, Sword / Shield, or Brilliant Diamond / Shining Pearl.
It was the first Pokémon game on Switch I had actual enthusiasm playing.

>>738122271

gen 3

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>>738122271
FUCKING EVERYTHING Holy Shit

>>738127727
Not just any Pokemon a Meta Pokemon at that in competitive, I swear they make the most retarded looking Pokemon actually good in the games

>>738131826
>Gen 3 is where they had less features than previous titles
Yet Gen III was when they stopped leaning on Gen I as much and tried doing new things and expanding on what Gen I/II introduced. And the day/night system wasn't removed, you still had time-based events, you just didn't have a visible day-night-night-day transaction and the GBA hardware wasn't compatible with the GB/C hardware. Gen III's flaws can be justified, Gen II's flaws cannot. And I'll say it again, Gen IV simply cleaned up Gen II's filler mons when it didn't have to, Gen II should have been its own game, its own region and introduced 150 new Pokemon so that Gen IV's evos could have been introduced in Gen II and Gen IV could have had a stronger dex.

All that I'm saying leads back to Gen II, that's where the problems began.

>>738124875
>>738126570
>>738127565
Underrated posts
>>738131531
What brought it back? From what?
If the current quality standards are here to stay, you're a brainwashed cultist or shareholder. Either way, you deserve to be launched into the sun

Nothing went wrong it was a game for kids and still is but numales keep buying this shit because they refuse to grow up so of course they'll keep selling it to them it's free money for making a dogshit game

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>>738127346
>Gen V getting a lot of backlash because B/W made you use new Pokemon
To be fair, gen V pokemon are just ugly copies of gen 1 pokemon.

>>738132196
>What brought it back?
Pokopia was better than anything since gen 5
Wind and Waves looks like a return to higher quality instead of rushed 20fps dogshit
Champions made competitive accessible outside of Showdown

>>738132157
Gen 2 added
>Day/Night Cycle
>Shinies
>2 new types
>100 new pokemon
>Breeding
>Held items
>16 Badges
>Compatible with Gen 1 games

Every pokemon game is flawed, but I would argue the main problems with the series started after gen 2. The modern problems with the games go back to gen 6 and the transition to 3D.

>>738132330
put it this way
>gen 1 caves have zubat
>gen 2 caves also have zubat since it's still mostly gen1 pokemon and half of the gen2 pokemon are secrets
>gen 3 caves ALSO have zubat
>gen 4 everyone is sick of seeing zubat in caves and wants to see something else
>gen 5 people would rather just have had zubat

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>>738122271
Gold and Silver were the natural ends to the series. Everything since then has been a steep decline