Why do Sonic-inspired games look like "that"
>>738208491People who make them have good understanding of mechanics and level design, but didn't understand that Sonic became iconic character because of his design. So all of these characters look lame as fuck.
>>738208491Sonic as a character was subjected to fairly rigorous design-by-committee and was initially thought up by professional industry icons. They literally went onto the street and asked passerby what they liked about the character and made changes in accordance to feedback while maintaining artistic vision.Creating a truly iconic design is a difficult tightrope act between uniqueness, design theory, and general appeal. Too much focus on any of the three and your design could end up being incomprehensible, myopic, or unappealing.
>>738208491I'll also add that the stripe down the center of his head makes him look like a Norwood 7.
>>738208491Because they don't "get it"
>it's the only Sonic-like game with appealing designs
>>738209937Part of me wonders when it comes to design work, if "getting it" is simply a matter of innate taste or something that can be learned.I think design theory can be learned but if your taste is too far out of bounds it'd be pretty difficult to make something that taps into the zeitgeist.
>>738210521>be 12-14 years old>mog bitches with your bustlol! I WILL download a big mammary mod if they go 3D!
>>738208491>>738209505The Japanese who designed Sonic started with their local culture of mascots and adapted it to what they believed Americans in th 90s would find cool. The Americans making mascots were inspired by these mascots plus American cartoons which have been intentionally ugly for 40 years at this point.
>>738208491Sonics seems based on looney tunes or mickey mouse era of cartooning while sonic-likes are clearly inspired by sonic and anime so they have this odd aesthetic.
>>738210836>The Americans making mascots were inspired by these mascots plus American cartoons which have been intentionally ugly for 40 years at this point.I wonder of this will shift, because outside of Pizza Tower I haven't seen the comedic design of western cartooning produce new characters that resonate with people (and Peppino isn't really truly iconic, just well known in the indie sphere). I think Anime might have caused a shift in preferences that almost deprecates western cartooning when it comes to games.
>>738210614it's something you learn through repetition, I've drawn and designed stuff for years and recently, with the release of tomodachi life, my friends and I decided to pirated it and recreate each one the members of our little friend group in it. and never before have I questioned myself if people besides artists are able to understand the appeal of the things they like. all of the characters made by my friends did look like the people they were trying to represent in the game, but the little Miis were terribly deformed, unlike the ones made by the friends whom are actually artist and then me
>>738210521That's not Pizza Tower though
>>738208491He is getting better. Not quite sure what they changed but i dont hate the design anymore. Its just a little odd. Just need to acfually finish the game and somehow be better then an ever growing competition.
>>738210521These are good but I like the simplicity of the original designs even though one or two were kind of weird.
>>738208491This is where the autistic Sonic fan dev gets filtered. Sonic was designed in line with the game's mechanics - it's a game about rolling down slopes to gain momentum, so they crafted a hedgehog-themed character who could naturally curl up into a ball. It's a form follows function approach. Fan games look at Sonic from the wrong angle - they try to make an OC that emulates Sonic's personality, that's the part of Sonic they value most. When you look at Rollin' Rascal's design you can picture the developer first drawing the snarky face and then not really knowing what to do beyond that.
>>738211330Pizza Tower is Mario/Wario-inspired. That's why it has a good character design and is fun to play.
>>738211587You sort of have to reverse engineer Sonic's design and arrive something similar it using different ideas. It's difficult to come up with something that hits all the marks without just being a clone of Sonic.
>>738211591Feels more like Sonic Rush when you git gud though
Not only is Sonic cool, but he makes sense from a design perspective because hedgehogs curl up and have spikes. I can't think of any other animal that would better fit that description (that aren't hedgehog adjacent like tenrec or porcupine). Maybe an armadillo could work idk.If it's not based on an animal, then the result looks scrimblo like the OP or Sparks the Jester or Ristar. Even in Sonic games it weirds me out when characters like Tails and Cream do spindashes, but maybe I'm being autistic.
>>738208491I don't know. Why are a lot of Sonic clones crowdfunded?
>>738211042The 2010s had great American cartoons. They just all ended and no one made anything else good, all we have is Vivziepop runoff
>>738212129If you're a solo developer, you end up running into a wall where there's just things you can't do like music and possibly sound design because you're probably a programmer. You'll probably need some professional key artwork as well because you can't put 6/10 art on your steam page and box art.The cost for this goes even further up if your studio has staff or your game requires voice work.
>>738212326>there's just things you can't do like music and possibly sound design because you're probably a programmer.Advent Neon did everything himself. And that guy is BLACK. No excuses.
>>738208491>>738209505I seem people in this very board doing better, more appealing designs than this.Is "4chan furfag gamedevs" a bar that high to clear?
>>738208491Is he supposed to be a gyroid or some shit why does he look like a Boston backed bean?
This has been true since the 90s
>>738212696>4chan furfag gamedevsAre we talking actual appeal here or just your penis getting hard?
>>738212585
>>738212830Very true, this is basically how Bubsy was made.
>>738212925Actual appeal, like not being a painful eyesore or even being hot.
>>738209905Hair makes you less aerodynamic though
>>738208491>why do Sonic-inspired games look like "that">"THAT"You mean a shota face?His face reminds me of Danzi Engine
>>738212303>The 2010s had great American cartoonsFor women and gays.
>>738210521Sonic+RWBY?
>>738214061More like Sonic+Linux. The guy who made those redesigns for the second game is a Linuxfag that has designed mascots for projects like KDE and Krita.
>>738212696Sex is a kind of appeal but it has the easiest instructions, so to speak.
>>738211330Pizza Tower mogs most of these games since it is focused on absurd comedy whilev90% of indie platformers want their characters to be cool or relatable but still look like something aimed at kids
>>738208491They took the "gameplay first" meme to heart.
>>738212046But ristar doesn't spin or curl
>>738210521The reason these all suck is because they're trying to be cool. Yes, Sonic has more serious moments and "cool" appeal, as strange as it sounds for a cartoon animal. But the thing is, the "cool" came AFTER Sonic was an established character. Sonic's original design was a cute cartoon. He was jumping on a cute, fat, egg-shaped villain to rescue little cute animals with tiny bodies and huge eyes. All the serious storylines were years off and not even a consideration when they were making him for the first time.Indie creators spend all their effort learning to make the game, and none on character design. Which is fair. But the thing is that these classic gaming mascots happened organically. Mario doesn't look the way he does because moustaches were cool to someone, he has a hat and moustache and such because it was hard to make a small handful of pixels look like a person, and those features helped. New characters don't have those constraints so characters can't be designed the same way. If one tries to design a character like Mario, or Sonic, or Pac-Man, they will fail because they're trying to imitate something created with a process impossible to replicate.
>>738214953I guess that kind of depends on what you mean by "aimed at kids" but in my experience, a lot of indie platformer guys tend to make their games under creative restrictions that would've been appropriate for themselves 20 years ago instead of where they are at now. What I'm saying is, making not Banjo Kazooie for an audience of probably 30-year olds isn't a good idea because their tastes have shifted and they aren't the same person they were before.
>>738208491I like that one sonic fangame where the main character is some black chick with huge boobs and I like >>738210521
>>738215375CornflowerBlue's girl?
>>738213372He means putrid and wretched.
>>738215375Those are good, although with the FP ones I never got around to playing FP 2 but they look nice.
>>738215605I think this looks really good but I will admit when zoomed up all the way the character models kind of look like playdo. Don't think it's a big issue since most of the game is zoomed out.
>>738212046>Maybe an armadillo could work idk. And Mighty the Armadillo literally looks like Sonic but red. And he was literally made to be a stand in for Sonic since like you said, Armadillos can roll.
>>7382084911) sonic and most iconic mascots were designed by professionals2) 99% of mascot designs, indie or industry, are fucking terrible but no one remembers them being terrible because they're terrible if this was some ps2 mascot no one would care but /v/ obsesses over sonic ripoff indie game character designs for some reason (it is admittedly funny)
>>738216625I think the reason for this is because Sonic's design is so good it allows his franchise to exist while releasing bad games. Most franchises fail after two, maybe even one. All of these designs have proximity to sonic due to their gameplay which can create a contrast if the design doesn't stack up to his.Tak is a funny one though, I have no idea why this guy got a TV show because I don't remember any real cultural motion behind the character other than being something to play on GameCube. I don't hate the little fucker or anything though.
>>738215605>>738216157loathe this character design, nothing about it communicates that the character runs fast besides being black.
>>738215605this ones nice>>738218074the boots are basically high-tech heelys but I guess an issue with it is that the parts that make her "fast" are only visible when the player rolls so it's not as intuitive as Sonic
Don't care. Spark is based and one of the only ones that has games released.Anon has been shilling >>738215605 for years and has nothing to show for it
>>738218074I think the recent outfit change made her look much worse aesthetically but I the communication is fine, ram horns, jet boots, racer jacket and gloves. I like simple designs better what more could she have.
>>738218716Aesthetically it's better but the loss of the cropped jacket removes some of the sportyness/ adventurer angle
>>738208491>3D indie devs wake up every morning saying to themselves "I'm going to make the ugliest piece of shit and make it the main character in my game!"
>>738209016>People who make them have good understanding of mechanics and level designEvery Sonic inspired 3D game is just copying Sonic Lost Worlds level design with five extra movement techniques incase you fuck up a jump.
>>738219332would you rather have ken penders do it?
>>738220123I'd like him do a full game's character concepts just to see what happens
>>738219561What the hell am I reading, I can't think of a single Sonic inspired game with Lost World tubes.
>>738219561I actually think the levels in these games are pretty unique since they each have their own gameplay tempo.Oddly enough, I'd say Spark has some proximity to the boost games despite not having the mechanic, it's just that fast.
>>738220123I really want to know the mindset of artists who make something like this with no shame.
>>738221650well, in pender's case it's huffing your own farts and convincing yourself your art is awesome no matter what anyone else says. as to why it's ugly, an artists style can be a blessing or curse when they don't take any feedback, they just cycle over and over getting worse and worse without ever truly noticing it, it happens often
>>738221862He has a detail = good mindset.
>>738208491I want to fuck his sister
>>738208491Think about it: anthropomorphic mascots are notoriously hard to make because that community is the originating source of the "OC DO NOT STEAL" meme.If anything they make even remotely looks like someone's OC they will cry and bitch and take to social media to get people cancelled/banned and demand royalties or just generally attempt to royally fuck whatever you are doing. There's no community more protective of OC's than the furry community.
>>738216421>he was literally made to be a stand in for Sonic since like you saidHe was created for SegaSonic.
look forward to dog the dog btw guys!
>>738208491It's a problem a lot of indie games face. For example, when Sega decided to make a game about rolling around at the speed of sound, they didn't have anything in mind. They had the freedom to design any character they wanted and with the help of professional character designers they took something completely seperate (1930s western cartoons) and turned it into something original: Sonic the Hedgehog! But now 30 years later we have the rolling rascal team going into making the game not with the vague idea of making a game about rolling around and going fast, they go into development trying to make a Sonic clone. And thus they limit themselves to having to MAKE a Sonic. Because Sonic is fucking AWESOME. Just look at him! Every game designer's dream would be making a game with a character like Sonic. And so they make "a character like Sonic". And that's how you end up with the Rascals and the Sparks. I appreciate Penny for being something else even if you can clearly tell the Sonic in her design, them trying to come up with an original eye shape (like how Sonic's eye shape is so iconic, you can tell the character just from it) even if her design is not the best (that's where "having a professional designer" comes in, which many indie devs don't have access to).This issue isn't just limited to sonic-clones, there is a similar thing with zelda-clones
>>738209505These were the wrong colors to choose for their mascot. She looks too much like a background character.
>>738223528Reds and blues are typically strong on these designs, but the mustard yellow wouldn't've been my first choice.
What happened to the guy making that game with the fairly oddparents-looking 2D character in a 3D world?
>>738223685I thought he changed the design for that one to a raccoon or something?
>>738223918Oh, did he? You got a pic? Last time I saw anything of that guy was in a thread here where we tried helping improve the design
>>738224068Actually I'll do you one better, I remembered the name of the game and it's here: https://oshmakesgames.itch.io/ellie-and-osh-demo
>>738216421And yet Mighty is nowhere as cool as Sonic. The quills really help Sonic look aerodynamic and fast. They can be appear soft but also harm enemies. Red + black is also too threatening. The blue fits Sonic's relaxed attitude and friendliness towards animals. And it makes his shoes stand out more into the iconic figure 8.Sonic really is perfect. If I were to make my own Sonic game, I don't think I could use a different character unless it was a parody or furry bait.
>>738218074Yeah. She looks like the opposite of speed. I can't imagine a woman with huge knockers and high-heels going fast. Wtf. Dev clearly prioritized his fetish, which can be sometimes based, but here it's extremely jarring. The demon looking girl next to her looks more suitable.
Sonic-inspired characters and their games look like shit, but what about Mario-inspired characters and games? Are there good ones?
>>738224775Most of the mario-inspired designs outside of hat kid have been frogs with backpacks
>>738224775Hat Kid and Gianna Sisters are the only ones I can think of. I feel like there's more Banjo clones than Mario clones desu
>>738224806>frogs with backpacksIt's just this one and KeroQuest64
>>738215137Not the point.
my mom could make a better character design than that
>>738225515Tell her to do it. I dare you.
it's because they don't want to be labelled as not-sonic yet have no idea how character design works
All these games should release with an "unofficial" mod that changes every character to Sonic and friends.
>>738209505>Creating a truly iconic design is a difficult tightrope act between uniqueness, design theory, and general appeal.Literally just do the following:>make cute girlThat's it.
>>738226452My thoughts exactly. Do we have a Sonic mod for Penny yet?
>>738223685>>738223918>>738224068>>738224118These are the characters now.
>>738226630Definitely an improvement!
>>738225798Character design is hard, especially if you're going into development wanting not to create something new but wanting to replicate something else. You're never gonna make a good design if you're going into it with the intention of making a design like Sonic
>>738226876>Character design is hard, especially if you're going into development wanting not to create something new but wanting to replicate something elseOld vidya replicated movies all the time. Nu-devs should pick up a VHS tape.
>>738209016>>738209505They're trying to make something that's just as simple and recognizable, but they're doing that based on their own taste and their biased attachment to their own designs. There's probably one concept art drawing they fell in love with, and never looked back, even as it started falling apart in 3D.They don't look for feedback outside of their own circles, they get blindsided when the final product is released to the world and it turns out no one likes it.>>738216886The Tak cartoon was supposed to exist first, and the games were supposed to tie into it, not the other way around. The show was just in development hell for years, and only survived to see the light of day because the games were mildly successful. That's why it was released under the Nick Games label, even though you'd never even know why. Only the last game actually released while the show was running.
>>738226974The Death Egg is a parody. Rascal and Spark are amateur character designers trying and failing to make their own Sonic
>>738227394I'm sure Spark copied a movie or two with his Trinity plot. Now he just needs to plagiarize the character designs from those.
Typically they're functional designs meant to be deliberately evocative of Sonic rather than being interesting characters in their own right.Mostly because people get hung up on the issue that a "Sonic like game" has to have a "Sonic Like Character".This isn't even a uniquely "Sonic" inspired independent game issue either.Lots of independent developers struggle with this.
>>738212696Uh, technically if you want to get into it, yeah.Furfags can be an extremely hard bar to clear because they're fairly passionate and actually study character design.
>>738226630You FINALLY changed the designs? Were the years of people telling you the game looked like a CAD fangame wasn't enough beforehand?
>>738228115I am making this game, and I find the process of making the game fun, but character design is not my most favorite aspect. So, due to his, I put it off for a very long time until I didn't.
>>738228237Go back to the /v/ dev threads so I can continue telling you your game looks like shit. I would genuinely never play it even if I got it for free but you do you
>>738221650Ken Penders comes from the same ilk as all those newspaper comic artists who published horrifyingly bad "How to Draw ANIME" books in the late 90's and early 2000's. Middling western artists who were doodling logos for businesses and slumming it on the rotation of artists propping up ancient newspaper comics created by guys who died 30 years ago, or shitting out their own pitches in hopes of actually making a modest, secure living under King Features Syndicate. Or in Ken Penders's case, cheap comic books. None of them really understood what was actually appealing about Japanese Pop-Art. They saw it as something that broke the rules of good character design, and they just never shook that off. In trying to imitate it, they just ended up breaking their own rules while still applying everything else they consider essential.Penders's art is uncanny because he doesn't know when simplifying is the better choice. Every feature is thoroughly physical. >Sonic's quills are solid structures attached to his body, they might move like hair only if they absolutely have to. They don't move to preserve his iconic silhouette.>The ridges above his eyes are thick and fleshy, they aren't just barely there to perform the function of eyebrows when they're necessary to convey expression.>His eyes are rendered as if they're impossibly huge physical structures anchored in his head, barely, but strictly, separated by the eyebrow ridge and his lower face. >The pupils don't just move around on a single mono eye to represent his gaze. >He has gums and defined, human teeth.>His body is usually the correct shape and size, unless he's doing the schizo headcanon ultra-jacked "adult version" he came up with.>But his limbs have defined muscle groups and detailed shoulder, hip, elbow, and knee joints that terminate in comically huge gloves and shoes.
>>738228443Okay.
>>738226630>>738228237I think those look nice, good job anonyou should recolor the squirrel to be a skunk though, more games need cute skunk girls
>>738226630So much better it's not even fucking funny dude.
>Supposed to work on my sonic clone>Have another clone I want to work on too>Have to contribute as pixel artist to some other projects first>This has been going on for two years nowSEND HELP
>>738228635This is actually a really good idea, feel like it would go better with the raccoon too.
>>738208491He needs a hat or something. Not enough blue on his upper half.
Okay guys I'm making my own 3D Sonic clone. Who do I hire to design my character?
>>738229078Do it yourselfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghrQD4i8nsE
>>738224132>Vector was the second Sonic character ever created
>>738209505It pisses me off that Penny looks like this because her game is genuinely one of the best 3D platformers of the past decade. But nobody gave it a chance because of her weird design
>>738212696>>738212925
>>738220123The absolute most horrifying combination of needlessly humanized anatomy, bad angles, and all around low general skill
>>738230416Already a million times better without the fucked up eyes and granny hair. Looks kinda like a cute imp.
>>738228443Post your game
>>738224132I wish Sonic had a hot babe. But even if she got in a few games, we all know they'd eventually drop the concept out of embarrassment, just like Crash did
>>738229690Wouldn't Vector be third? Since some retellings of the story say Robotnik was originally a protagonist idea they had scrapped.
>>738223592The white hair was a mistake.
>>738208491i want to fuck this thing's sister
>>738209505Penny is what you get when you try to design something quirky first and cute second. It's like learning all the wrong lessons from Marina... because Treasure made damn sure she was appealing on every level.
>>738219332Most common art advice is to make what YOU want not make product for others.
>>738212585>and that guy is BLACK.i know you're trying to be funny anon but these days most young solo devs that are autistically gifted in multiple avenues (art, music, programming) are ethnic. the only thing they're bad at is writing.
>>738226561They wanted to make her weird looking when that’s only for male characters. Female mascot protags have to be cute or sexy.
>>738230612>>738228762I stopped dev'ing to take money helping other people make theirs. All I do is crabpost now Not that I even posted it when I did lurk there
>>738230902I wish mischief makers got a lowpoly 3D game. It was for the n64 after all.
>>738230884Pretty sure that's the point.
>>738230884Meh. Just the same basic "Minnie Mouse" or "Amy Rose" school of "PROTAGONIST BUT GIRL"
>>738214624Kiki the cybersquirrel is my wife, she greets me whenever I draw shitty art>>738216157They all have the same proportions they look like fighting game skins.>>738230884How does she look leagues better than that MC
>>738231463>How does she look leagues better than that MC2 things stand out to me. First, no flesh toned stripe down her middle, that shit is unnerving. And second, she has a tuft of hair up front where you'd expect, so she doesn't look like a fucking baldy.
Why is everyone only making Sonic clones? Where are the Gunstar Heroes clones?
>>738231463>How does she look leagues better than that MCHe needs some kind of hair in the front, or a ballcap maybe? The additions of just a hair tuft and like a "cool guy scarf" would do wonders for him honestly.
>>738231610Because they want to make money selling these games, and no matter how genius Treasure was, they weren't really known for raking in the cash.
>>738231610Everybody wants their pixel indie game to be the next big breakout hit to save them from the labors of waging like undertale was
>>738231610To be fair, that's exactly what Cuphead was.
>>738229341I am so fucking glad this was exactly what I thought it'd be
>>738230884>>738231463There's more you can infer from her design compared to the MC. Her outfit is what you'd expect from someone who goes skiing. But that combined with the contrast of her skin and "gloves" makes her look like someone who has dedicated their life to skiing. It's a nice mix of alien and familiar. Her brother by comparison is just a half-naked dude; he'd look weird in our culture and theirs.
Like what?Genuinely unsure what you mean by "that"
>>738232050It's the best thing they ever did
>>738231610Aside from ez money like other anons said, 3D Sonic has always been a puzzlebox. Many fans think official Sonic games are a mess with lots of potential so they come up with their own interpretations. I think the original Sonic Adventure was the closest to what it should be except with non-buggy physics and more Sonic levels. But judging by the amount of 3D Sonic fangames, apparently majority love the boost shit and mach speed corridor gameplay. Ugh.
>>738216421>And he was literally made to be a stand in for SonicNot really. He was created as a side character first, alongside Ray. Later on they changed his and Ray's proportions to match Sonic's so they could all have similar animations in the arcade SegaSonic game.
>>738232302like sonic
>>738231610Sonic fans often think they could make a better Sonic game than whatever Sega will put out. A lot of them give up before ever actually making a level, but some have actually made better Sonic games than most official ones,
>>738230884she a cute
>>738208491>>738230884These look like the type of characters you'd see in a cg preschool show themed around being ACTIVE!
>>738230884It's the hair tuft that doesn't make her look like she's balding like Rascal (see >>738209905)
>>738220123Thanks for reminding me of this guy's existence, you asshole.
>>738209505Perfect response to that entire situation. For all of Sonic's problems today, the parent company knew how to market him, design him and present him. Penny didn't have the marketing, the presentation or the design even. Evening Star needs to learn from that mistake and go back to the drawing board.
>>738231610Can we get alien soldier clones instead I like that game betterRun-n-guns are a generally untapped subgenre, the public do NOT like playing these game unless theyre Cuphead
>>738233446Nah, just let them flounder and go under. Fuck-ups that bad don’t deserve a second chance
>>738233958they clearly knew how to make a video game, they just need to make one that isn't garish, tacky, and eye-searing
>>738234093The guy is clearly a sonic autist. He just isn't allowed to make another sonic game because sega is petty that mania upstaged them, and he doesn't have a tard wrangler to tell him his ideas are bad
Give me $1000, Sega
>>738233524>Run-n-guns are a generally untapped subgenreI think there are so many shmups and beat-em-ups that feel similar that nobody specifically pines for a run-n-gun. You already have really good ones like Metal Slug, Pocky&Rocky, and Gunstar. These games are classics but after playing a few I think I'm done permanently. They all sorta become mindless explosion/destruction porn. And they are generally so polished that I never get that feeling of "I wish someone could do it better"
>>738234248>The guyEvening Star is multiple people. Also Sega being "upset" over Mania turning out good was always retarded fanfiction, especially since the project was spearheaded by Iizuka. Evening Star is even featured under "special thanks" in Superstars' credits, since they gave pointers on the game's physics when Ohshima's team reached out to them during development.Once Mania's expansion was finished, the team immediately started working on a prototype for a followup. They likely ended up jumping ship during early production due to Sega's management being awful to deal with, which is a pretty common story with most third party teams that work with the company. Just look into how they fucked over the devs behind Boom.I wouldn't be too shocked about Evening Star being involved in some future Sonic thing anyway, since Penny didn't sell too great and the team has openly met with Sonic Team's higherups since its release.
>>738234950>Evening star is multiple peopleIts one dude that's relevant. You know the guy who stopped being a contractor for sega and made his own company? You know the company that's named after a sonic reference?
>>738234981You realize that nearly all of the same devs that worked alongside him on Mania also worked on Penny? That's where Evening Star came from. He's not a level designer or artist, those areas were also mostly handled by the same crew who did the layouts and art for Mania.
>>738234690>And they are generally so polished that I never get that feeling of "I wish someone could do it better"that's exactly why it is an untapped genre, they generally never broaden beyond that Contra template and hardly deviate from it.
>>738209505I get that retarded decisions are made all the time but I still refuse to believe that anyone on the team, let alone the team collectively, could ever believe that Penny wasn't ugly.>>738208491looks bad and boring but it just seems amateur. Penny is like everyone in the office took turns trying to make it look worse than the person before. It's not just any one element, every aspect of it seems bad.
>>738211587It shouldn't be overly hard to design the character and only then slap a smug smile on it. It's like designing a character to be the black trans character instead of coming up with an actual good idea and then dumping a coat of paint on it afterwards.
>>738228443I also hate gameplay.
>>738235409>Penny is like everyone in the office took turns trying to make it look worse than the person before. It's not just any one element, every aspect of it seems bad.Blame the bitch who ruined Skullgirls. They hired her as an animator thus they were doomed to suffer the Skullgirls curse.
>>738234981>you know I'm stupid and just latch onto whatever's shoved in my faceYeah man definitely. Those other people do nothing. The face of a company is the one who does all the work.
>>738235793>The one who made a solo engine for sonic that became the official mobile ports
>>738216157that kick animation sucks.
>>738210521Give those girls a snoot
>>738208491This looks AI generated.
>>738210521Notice how these are actual familiar animals >>738209505Her design isn't that bad because she's obviously some kind of rodent, but still it lacks that familiarity>>738208491Then who knows what the fuck this is supposed to be. Familiarity is key when designing characters unless you REALLY want to explain how they're some kind of bizarre alien or something.
>>738236204>she's obviously some kind of rodentI don't... think she is? I think she's just supposed to be a human girl with like white clown hair
>>738212129Aren't you forgetting a game?
>>738208491Because even sonic has some design flaws, and i'm not talking about his tan arms.
>>738236353Never heard of it. Also, its a mascot platformer, not a Sonic clone/like.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy7EWCfIJ6IMuch like with Rocky Rodent, none of this gameplay is Sonic.
>>738236296Maybe. I see there's animal characters in the game and I assume she's like them, but I guess there's weird humanoid things too so maybe she's one of them, but yeah, like she definitely could've had more grounded design.Something like Kirby is an interesting example because you got all these weird blob characters and humanoid things, but they're actually aliens. Being really cute also goes a long way and you don't really question the designs either so they don't even really have to be aliens. So basically if yo0u're going to have weird abstract blobby things as characters they better be really cute.
>>738236598Yeah I really have no explanation for what could have possibly happened at Evening Star to make Penny happen. There is no way the finished design was the best one out of all concept arts. I'd pay money to see the alternate designs
The thing is that it's not that much of a bad design, it's just badly executed/overdesignedThere's too many things that clash out>anime cartoon face with floating eyebrows and blushing lines>3D body with Sakurai style rendering>Pants with hyper realistic texturing that look suited for heavy work instead of running>gigantic gloves and shoes that look heavy>has a pony tail when the rest of the head is featureless, so it seems like he has a queue (typical bald chinese haircut)
>>738230416looks kinda like Prushka
>>738215208>Sonic's original design was a cute cartoon.This is wrong. Sonic's creators always wanted him to be cool both from preference, as well as a desire to have him stand out amongst the massive amount of cutesy Japanese mascot characters that already existed. The Adventure redesign was unironically a direct response to people like you who missed the point completely, intending to drive the point home.>If one tries to design a character like Mario, or Sonic, or Pac-Man, they will fail because they're trying to imitate something created with a process impossible to replicate.This is true however.
>>738238003It's also such a lazy design in terms of gameplay. The game is essentially a 1:1 sonic clone, so he can roll up into a ball. Now, when Sega came up with this gameplay idea 35 years ago they thought "oh hey if its a hedgehog then he can roll up into a spike ball". And now, 30 years later, we have these ""character designers"" setting out to design the same fucking thing and their best solution is to just. Make his head come off? His head *is* the ball? That's the laziest thing you could have possibly done!
Videos game
Boing
>>738236296Nobody knows what the hell she's supposed to be, people have suggested a sheep, a poodle, a granny, and now a generic "rodent"
>>738245541>>738242391Nigga make a valid point if you're gonna bump a thread.
>>738226630what the FUCKruined and i'm not joking
>>738236398That's not a design flaw, that's just subpar character animation which is a separate issue Sonic Team suffers from.
>>738234950>They likely ended up jumping ship during early production due to Sega's management being awful to deal withAfter the stunt Stealth pulled with calling them out over denvuo, it was clear that he doesn't have it in him to work in a corporate environment. And I get that. But that corporation has resources and skills a lot of indie devs desperately need and truth be told, he really needed to learn how to market his game and even learn color theory and design philosophy so that Penny would have stood out more for the right reasons.
easiest workaround to make these designs more appealing without redoing them completely is to give >>738208491 more hair to make him look less bald (if looking like a ball is the main point of the design, tone down human features) and change >>738209505 skin color to yellow or other non-human color. I feel like changing eye shape to more sharp lines instead of round droplets would work in favor too
>>738247884I only did one bump, the other guy idk about. Also it was at page 10 so it could have archived before I finished thinking and typing up a post
>>738242391Well, complaining about amateurs and possible gooning to furries can't really be too long of a thread
>>738233524I saw some indie game posted here that I thiiiink may have been an alien soldier clone, or at least some kind of destructive side-scrolling game. I can't remember the damn name. The character is like some knight/alien thing that is entirely blood red. Looked cool though.If someone knows what I'm talking about hook me up.
>>738211587Autists are technical-minded. They're not capable of actual creativity and nuance. They can't think outside the box. People with ADHD make for better creatives since although they share some symptoms with autists, they still retain an imagination. Tech stuff is alien to them but creativity's their bread and butter.
Indie Sonic clones should plagiarize other vidya for their boss designs instead of designing their own bosses.
>>738255482The guy with the feet was pretty funny in this.
>>738255963It's not just the designs, something about the game's color palette is just hard to look at.
>>738256204They tried to take notes from knuckles chaotix- literally just begging for the game to fail
>>738256204I like the game's wacky visual design but the lack of thematic restrictions in each level causes all of them to feel very similar to each other.Instead of:>Grassland>Volcanoyou get:>abstract shit that's blue>asbtract shit that's red and there's fire
Sonic-clone son or goonbait daughter, which one do you prefer
>>738230659>I wish Sonic had a hot babe. Um sweetie. Did you forget about bat tits?
>>738255963When I saw this guy with gross toerings, the odds of me buying this game went straight to 0%>not just footfags, but GAY footfags
>>738230659I wish Sonic was actually small like that and not a giant mascot costume
>>738258319I meant "as a girlfriend." But believe me, I was VERY pro-Rouge (back when she canonically had boobs)
>>738258968Modern and Classic are ironically both 1m tall. They made Classic shorter in Gens but the height used to be the same between the designs. Maybe we just need bigger women to compensate?
>>738209505>>738209505I think she just needed to look more like a clown.
>>738258968They went with a bad compromise where he's way shorter than all the humans around, but he's not like a small dog that you'd bend down to talk to or pick up.
>>738231008No
>>738208491Sonic Won
>>738261575Nah, that's not enough.
the games' designs are spiritually cowardlyno vision or inspiration besides being inspired by sonic. sonic sonic sonic. "everyone likes sonic, so I'll just ripoff sonic's design conventions!!!" I feel claustrophobic when I look at these designs. can we all just move on already? aren't indies supposed to be bleeding edge, punk stuff thats outside conventions? Why are indies the epitome of safe today? Just get a normal job and leave the talent to the professionals, I guess.
>>738208491i imagined this with Terry from Three's Company saying it with the dejected tone she uses to say "Larry"kek
>>738232521it always bugged me that Sonic never knew how to jump into 3D and everyone somehow dropped IQ ever since Sonic first did
>>73821495399% of indie looks like the dev's arrested development
>>738263565I loved the way SonicxShadow Generations felt and played, just more of that
>>738228602Good observation. Penders doesn't actually know how to stylize certain aspects properly, or is simply not interested.
>>738210521thats cheating tho. tysontan is so talented he's had his hand in mascots for multiple open source linux projects. this isnt your ordinary indie dev artist
>>738249668Stealth didn't work on Penny.In spite of his public complaints with Mania re:Denuvo, he has thus far been one of the only Mania devs willing to work directly for Sega again (on Origins). Of course he aired the dirty laundry of SEGA's management afterwards but for SEGA I guess that just comes with the territory when hiring Stealth.
>>738264258I think it shouldn't count entirely on the basis that Tyson Tan wasn't paid for his work.
>>738255963This guy is the worst design in the game. Antagonists should still have some appeal and nobody fucking likes toerings and footfags.>>738256204Look at picrel. The color palette simply sucks because it has very low contrast. Bottom pic is my attempt to fix it. Lack of more neutral, earthen colors to balance the color vomit is also a problem. Even the whites feel saturated.
>>738263782It's okay. I liked the overworld aside from some speed booster spam. They need to drop the cardinal deadzone bullshit that's been a thing since Lost World and finally get rolling physics down.
>>738236398That's an issue stemming from the fact that SEGA's animators are hilariously incompetent and animate cartoon animals based off Mickey Mouse with stiff, robotic and lifeless movements, or fucking motion capture
They’re a bigger ripoff than Scourge…
>>738255963>>738264637I hate to point this out but even the Foot coloring is all wrong. Take Classic Beast for instance (yes, Beast from X-men wasn't always a blue furry creature). Notice the color of his bare feet contrast with his costume giving emphasis on them...Yes, classic Beast had an emphasis on his big feet. This was before the internet where barefeet was considered porn.If you have a character with a specific emphasis (in this case, attacking with his feet), that area should stick out like a sore thumb.
>>738209016I think anyone with a functioning brain knows full well that the only reason as to why Sonic isn't as dead and forgotten as Ty the fucking tasmanian tiger and all other kinds of failed platformer mascots is because his design is a 10/10
>>738264632That's actually pretty interesting
>>738261575Add in white face paint and make her hair purple instead.i always thought her eye shape was a bit to exaggerated.
>>738258319>>738258983
>>738212303I'm not saying I don't enjoy some 2010s cartoons but I don't think their average noodle limb artstyle is the kind of thing to resonate with and take inspiration from.
>>738209505Brown skin and white hair was a fucking awful choice
>>738265349That can be a great combo for certain characters, but you can't really go crazy with other colors after you do it. Having the remainder of the design mostly be skin, or really dark or light shades is almost required after doing that.
>>738265349Brown skin and white hair is a GOATED combo, she just looks like an ugly granny.
>>738264224It's not that he doesn't know. He could imitate the official art extremely easily. He's clearly skilled enough for that. He just doesn't, because he thinks it's wrong, or inferior in some way. He keeps the big eyes and general features, but he insists on "elevating them" to flaunt his technical skill.Just look at this drawing: >>738220123 He draws defined muscles and joints, even though neither ought to be present on a Sonic character. Facial expressions aren't simply shapes used to convey an idea, the skin on Sonic's forehead wrinkles as if it's actually being pushed together. And despite that, he only has four fingers. I recognize that as a holdover from the American cartoon on which the comics were based, but it's one of the strangest elements to preserve when you're going to the extra effort of distinguishing Sonic's hamstrings, kneecaps and calf muscles instead of giving him noodle limbs.
>>738265467I don't want my mascot to resemble a nigger, spic, or pajeet. I simply won't buy it
>>738264891It's not a one to one copy, but the image on the left looks so much like the Sonic Adventure box art, people would immediately recognize what he was inspired by.
>>738209505Going from high-energy cool teen Sonic to an african grandma with droopy eyes and a clown costume is downright baffling. I mean I genuinely don't think you could stray further from your target audience's interests.
>>738264891>Adventure logo>Sonic is front and center with limbs doing a weird spiral and gives a ton of energy to the image>furfag logo>a there's a giant hole in the center surrounded by a hand and a tail with the character being in a corner, the pose is stiff as fuck and look jankindie/10, would laugh again
>>738212303western cartoons were at their worst in the 2010s
>>738265625the short time i spent playing that penny game, i realized the character itself was the last thing i ever looked at.
>>738212585but is it good
>>738266240In practice it ends up being whatever. But the game still failed almost certainly because of the design and that translates into not having more products from the devs
>>738231008>mostBrownoid cope
>>738265467It looks cool when its a hot anime twink or elf lady. It doesn't look good when its making the character look like a grandma
>>738208491No idea. personally i want to see him more wide-eyed and vulnerable. Maybe with a backpack to show he likes adventure. Also make him more of a blank canvas so you can connect more with him.
>>738231058>cute or sexyOne of the two first, followed by weird (either low temp or high).
>>738266316Yes but fair warning, it's painfully obvious that it was made by a black dude who is into Dragonball Z. I cut him a lotta slack cause one man dev and cheap price point but the "cultural appropriation" will turn a lot of people off.That said, there is a ONE dealbreaker: It has gay, trans, nonbinary shit in its cosmetics. Much like with A Hat in Time, that's enough for most people to abandon ship. Pirate the game (cause it was already funded via Crowdfunding anyway) if you're curious. Trying not to be a dick but something tells me if I look at the dev's twitter/bitchsky timeline, I'll just be groaning at poltard trash.
>>738264632What a cool guy, but>doesn't have the budget to hire an artistBullshit. The money that went into the dev trooning out could've paid Tyson for his work.
>>738249668Based Stealth calling out shit SoE antics. Sega threw him under the bus first by claiming it was THEM who fucked up the Steam Denuvo thing, but we all know it was wrong and he rightfully called it.Sure, it's a big no-no in corporate world but Sega deserved that call-out, fucking retards.
>>738265908Yah, not nearly as good.
>>738269698He rarely charges for his mascot designs. Konqi, Kiki, Libby and all the other open source mascots were made for free and his art is public domain. He just loves open source and kemono.
>>738271995Yeah, but that makes more sense for OSS projects since it would mean the devs can freely use the mascots. FP2 is a commercial game, a sequel at that... It just irks me a bit. Can't blame the dev for taking such a huge chance to get great designs for free, however. Tyson is a rare 'art' equivalent of the great OSS devs: They make their stuff because they want to, and for people to use freely. It's very commendable.>LibbieShe actually appears as a cameo in FP2, that was a nice surprise. And I STILL REMEMBER THAT GODDAMN "MASCOT COMPETITION" FFFFFFFFFF That horribly colored bird and the pajeet design, dear lord. Libbie was wronged so much...
>>738272509>I STILL REMEMBER THAT GODDAMN "MASCOT COMPETITION" FFFFFFFFFF[/spoiler] That horribly colored bird and the pajeet design, dear lord. Libbie was wronged so much...My favorite design was this cockatoo, which was rejected before the contest even began for using part of the LO logo (even though it was just an example of how the mascot could be used) and was barred from competing even if the author changed the parts that broke the rules. Ever since that contest fiasco, I no longer recommend LO to anyone (I install OnlyOffice for them instead, which in addition to not being developed by idiots offers much better support for MS Office formats).
>>738273742>onlyofficeThat's another can of worms with the whole license drama. I prefer OSS devs who actually know how licenses work, even if they suck at handling contests for mascots.
>>738208491because this is a game by westerners trying to mimic eastern design sensibilities. it's literally nothing more complex than that.
>>738265625They were going for the gay IDW audience.
>>738268390>but the "cultural appropriation" will turn a lot of people off.Don't be stupid. You're talking about a very loud and annoying minority.
>>738274352Close. It's westerners trying to mimic easterners trying to mimic westerners.
>>738274727Don't try to sweep up for this dev. Believe me, you shouldn't.
>>738216886>>738209016>>738209505klonoa is the closest we can get to the coolest-inspired sonic design, sad the fans had to shill the game instead of the devs which caused him to go obsecure
>>738276403and no indies to do him justice.
>>738274559IDW made a better Penny than the Penny devs
>>738266867depends on how you use it, it can be pretty good like picrel>>738265467>>738266867trve
>>738276657Still doesn't look like it would stand well on its own as the primary main character.Good for a sidekick design
>>738262740toby can't code thoughbeit
>>738231463let me see art you drew of her
>>738265246the eye shape is an inverted sonic eye, Penny was supposed to be sonic mania 2/3d but sega told them to fuck off, that's why the eyes look like that.I agree that they should've made her lashes close off the eye into a more sensible shape though.
Freedom Planet 1 was the closest and the most memorable Sonic themed game.Freedom Planet 2 went out to its own path to a gameplay in a mix between Sonic and Megaman X, and I recommend to anyone wanting a gotta go fast game.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgux_tdXOqs
Why do early y2k inspired platformers look like.... THIS?
>>738278652I’d have a better time understanding what you mean if you posted an example that people actually know of and not some literally who
>>738278810It's Corn Kidz 64, it gets posted on here every now and then so not much less known than the ugly monstrosity in op's thumbnailhttps://youtu.be/2bPYnNuUMz8?si=Xesg4qRYcSQ1UD-Mhttps://youtu.be/2bPYnNuUMz8?si=S8P6wutGxCClFqy4
