If nothing is lost, nothing matters. A themepark MMO without material durability is just a treadmill. You can see through the world because there's nothing to lose -- nothing to do. Immersion is arguably the most important aspect of game design. How do we make an immersive MMO where your actions matter, and the world is emergent and dynamic? Where the progression is horizontal? Have no leveling; forego bind-on for full gear trading; make durability cost materials.
Jesus Christ nutriments move on with your life
>>738209618Guild Wars 2 seems to be getting along fine without any of the shit you're suggesting
>>738210798>Themeparks are good, guys!!!!
>deranged retard with the worst take on MMOs in existence>makes the same thread multiple times a day for a year or moreWhy can't it be someone who isn't a literal retard that makes an MMO thread nonstop?
>>738210501>>738212069Whole lot of not an argument in here. Do you really think leveling, bind-on, and gold repairs are going to be some herald of game design when we all know about objective quality and are all playing games together? Do you M+ all day, every day? Level all your characters in every MMO?
>>738209618>Riot MMO>Mihoyo MMO "Genesis">Guild Wars 3> Knights of the Old Republic remakeWE ARE SO FUCKING BACK
>>738211840Go ahead and list all of the wildly successful MMOs featuring all the shit you're suggesting, or even the niche ones full of weirdos like yourself signaling for more like-minded weirdos that don't know one another exist, or your own MMO passion project, ANY proof of concept. Ad populum beats no populum.
>>738212775>Ad populum beats no populum.Fallacy. Can you actually argue vs. the designs without appealing to tradition?
>problem #1MMORPG is no more and never coming back because the RPG element is socially dead.>games went from anybody could say anything and do anything>this shifted to racist stuff will risk a ban>this shifted to racist and bad language will risk a ban>this shifted to anything the opposite person finds "offensive" even if it isn't "offensive" will risk a banThe mentally ill have turned common communication into mindgames and most people decided to opt out entirely.>problem #2MMOs are now overrun and basically have morphed into a speedrunner genre. No mistakes allowed, Everything must die on the first try, no communication because communication = not pushing buttons. This goes hand in hand with boosting, the vast majority buy a boost to speed level so that they can then go into dungeon and raids and speed run those too, the genre at this point might as well be called MMOSRG ( SRG for speed running game )
vm has some interesting mmo threads
you cant have back what Discord took from you
>>738213224Discord = AIDS
you are correct but no such game will come out, gamers have short attention spans and the modern mmo pricing model is predatory
>>738212867Can you argue anything without evidence?
so are any of you game devs or are these constant threads just endless theoretical circlejerking?
>PVE except most enemies are too difficult to solo>everyone who was in any way involved in killing an enemy gets XP/loot>optional high-risk high-reward zones with full open PVP>if you die you drop everything on you (including in PVE) and it's difficult to recover it unless you died near the spawn pointThere, I gave you the recipe for a successful MMO for free.
>>738213224>social media didn't exist before I was sapientAny answer other than WoW + the theme park apocalypse is completely and utterly retarded. OP is largely right except that durability has always been a migraine better off never implemented in the first place
>>738214170Forgot one:>every player class has their own dedicated enemy debuff and/or ally buff ability
>>738213025All of that is correctable with a proper studio. They're not inherent problems with the genre. I don't mean to lessen the conversation. Things like making players enjoy all aspects of the game is a real design problem. But I do think they are (at least mostly) fixed with what the OP is suggesting. People speedrun leveling because they can barely play with anybody, and it's a forced, dumbed down tutorial where nothing matters except the few extra gold they'll have at max level. You can have all people and all zones relevant all the time, and this leads to more content like questing being done (instead of losing 70% of your trial players by level 10 in WotLK, and a further 50% of your level 10 characters by level 25 recently) because people who actually want to do that kind of content will, and all the people you historically lost to leveling will eventually. You can also make questing more rewarding if you have an economy and equipment structure that's meaningful to all players, like cosmetics and different playstyles. Making a living world is easy, and the OP is on point.
>>738213617So, no? You don't need some briefing. The OP designs are self-explanatory.>>738214225>durability has always been a migraine better off never implemented in the first placeWhat socioeconomy is supposed to exist if gold is all that matters, not resources? What are players supposed to do? Gathering, crafting, and trading are central. You need loss. Risk:reward ties with instant gratification and lasting rewards as the 3 most important factors. You need all 3.
>>738213224>Implying people chat in Discord more than they play.
>>738215947>The OP designs are self-explanatoryIf they were, then you wouldn't have to explain them. Nonetheless, unless you're running the project yourself, you NEED proof of concept or you don't have a leg to stand on. Meanwhile, there's mountains of evidence not only in favor of themepark MMOs but in favor of them specifically over more complex systems.I know that the niches you're arguing for exist, but your inability to cite them shows, if nothing else, that you aren't fit to present your own case. Hire a representative or quit.
>>738216834Per the thread, leveling massively segregates players, obsoletes zones, is a dumbed down, forced tutorial for dozens, if not hundreds, of hours, and isn't relevant after you hit max except for a little gold.Bind-on removes time and choice as important resources and lessens the feel of freedom and social identity in the world. People should be able to trade for their favorite playstyle, because choices besides PvE should matter. This reduces burnout and allows people to gather, craft, and trade for what they want. Boosts already exist in games like WoW; more people will do the content if they can piecemeal progression through other means than sitting in a queue. Forced instanced PvE is antithetical to a living world.Material repair durability makes activities actually matter, both to momentary excitement and to the relevance of the economy. Without it, the game is just a linear treadmill, which burns out players and lets them see through the world.
>>738209618>make durability cost materialsAt that point you can stop being a pussy and go full-loot PvP. Materials are meant to be used to craft new equipment.
>>738218043A game should have full loot servers, but even that should make loss worthy of the re-equip and travel time.
>Pokemon With Guns, The Game.We need an ARK MMO.
>>738212775EVE gets 20-30k concurrent, which is respectable. Minecraft is popular (and what would you do without item loss? You would get diamond equipment, beat The End, and quit), even PvP (all the streams I watched were PvP). Rust and ARK.>Some of those aren't MMOs.In what world does the massive popularity lead of PvP games not translate to MMOs? Real players are much more thrilling friends and foes. I surely can't translate the massive benefits of realism, variety:depth, skill expression, and social identity in a living world, to immersion, achievement, and thrill. Edge of your seat gaming either doesn't exist or is vastly reduced in PvE, and much more than that in singleplayer. Imagine overcoming a real player to secure resources in your own zone. PvE is made to be beatable; PvP is made to challenge your skill and identity.
>>738213617You need loss. I don't mean full loot. It has its place. Full loot PvP servers would probably be popular, because PvP games are by far the most popular and hours played games. But what would require millions, if not billions, of resources is material repairs durability. People want to live in a world. Gathering, crafting, trading, and PvEing for resources and items is extremely important to vary activities. Gold repairs just makes everything permanent. A linear treadmill. Where you can see through the world because the only thing that matters is pushing your linear ilvl. If resources are important, people can fight to control zones. People can corner markets and look for the crafters with the best recipes. You need economy, so you need material repairs durability.You can also have much more power (size, speed, and power rivaling comics) if you can only keep it by staying alive or being rich. It's a win-win. Material repairs durability is central to a good MMO.
>738219314>AI nonsense where nothing fucking happens in the video>liking ARK(you) don't even deserve a real reply.
>>738220260>Expecting AI content to be pivotal at this point.>Not thinking ARK is tied for best game available.That WebM is fun, and Survival Crafting Pokemon has more content and fun PvP than most other games, not to mention deep basebuilding, custom and premade cooking recipes, PvE arenas with good rewards like Tek and the cloning bench, breeding for colors and stats, and painting creatures and canvases. Also, I can't translate how good the Tek Suit is for mastering a populated living world.
>>738218356>>738218043>>738209618Albion online you stupid nigger
>>738220184PvP in MMOs is awful, especially with item loss.I want my PvP games to be fast paced. Where if I die I respawn in 20 seconds with all my gear. I don't want to spend 3 days grinding old content to get all my gear back before I can PvP again.
>>738220770I didn't like the combat mixed with top down perspective. Something about grinding portals just wasn't fun after the first few, and it expects you to grind hundreds to thousands for the best stats and equipment.
>>738211840Themeparks are more popular than any other types of MMO.Themepark (XIV/WoW/GW2/ESO) > Pseudo MMOs (Foxhole, Rust) > Sandbox MMOs (Albion, EvE)Because fundamentally Sandbox just means group > solo/small group with a heavy emphasis on PvP which isn't enjoyable because its time based, not skill based.
>>738220184>Full loot PvP servers would probably be popularI played ac and more people talked about darktide than they actually played in it
>>738221451Doesn't matter what the perspective is. If you wanted a PvP gear focused player only economy its Albion. The fact its shit proves the ideas behind it are shit.
>>738221217Nobody's saying you won't respawn with your gear most of the time. A lot of equipment could plausibly last you dozens of respawns, sans the most powerful equipment that would only last you one (god sets).Also, you're vastly inflating how much time it would take you to get equipment. A studio can literally give players as much as they want. But you should have to earn your favorite playstyles, because you're going to enjoy and respect it and fights more. You can't honestly think that infinite availability of your perhaps one set of equipment is strategic or fun. Free god gear would be too repetitive. Rarity and risk vastly increase skill relevance and social identity.
>>738209618>nothing mattersit's a fucking videogame. nothing will ever matter. why would anyone treat a game that feels like a second job when they can play something fun instead?
>>738222061>why would anyone treat a game that feels like a second jobBecause they don't have the first job. Its always jobless neets who play shit like Eve.
>>738221217To play devil's advocate, maybe you should play something else
>>738222602ok i will. and so will everyone else. enjoy your single digit player count flop
>>738210798literally the only MMO I come back to every so often, since progress is never really lost
>>738221545You can't honestly think linear treadmills with little to no gathering, crafting, and trading are good. What is there to do but LFD? Why can't you respect how central an economy is to a living world? Potential loss is risk is skill and social identity. A sandbox is emergent and dynamic content and social structure. I guess it's the only way to have a living world.
>>738222882The human population disagrees with you.
>>738221938I would rather have an action perspective and New World combat. At least WoW is a good middle ground, and I can PvP as much as I want in arenas and fun BGs like capture the flag and conquest.If only WoW normalized item levels and role compositions vs. the other team.
not this "living world" meme shit againthe overworld only exists for retarded gatherdrones with no skills and/or no friends to gather materials for the raidchads. everything of importance is always done inside instances in organized groups, and this has always been this case even before shit like datamining and casualization turned MMOs into raidslop.
>>738222061>it's a fucking videogame. nothing will ever matter.Appeal to extremes. People enjoy living in a social, fantasy fulfilling realm.>why would anyone treat a game that feels like a second job when they can play something fun instead?I guess you like just playing PvE and/or PvP forever, but lots, if not most, people want to get rich and powerful via game knowledge and deep systems. Respect fantasy-meets-reality.
>>738223164>not this "living world" meme shit againImagine if it actually WAS a living world though. As in full ecosystems. You would have to reset it every couple months because every time I bet the whole planet would get genocided.
>>738223014>fgsfds
>>738223014they did normalize pvp gear once and it killed casual pvp because there was no fucking point to it without a carrot to chase after (gearing up)the average person does not find tab-target pvp fun, especially not when balance is left in the hands of the retards at blizzard, simple as that
>>738222994What A+ sandbox MMO have we had in the last 20 years?
>>738223268>Its the quality thats the problemNo its the fundamental concept behind a sandbox.
>>738223204wakfu does this. mobs, plants, trees, basically everything except ores and fish (those just respawn after a while) have to be manually replanted by the players and ideally kept at certain levels (not too high but also not too low) to gain gathering bonuses in the zoneit's not an enjoyable experience when you need a certain crop to keep leveling so you go to the places they grow at and the only plants you can find are level 100 sunflowers, about 70 higher than the crop you should be leveling with. so you go to the AH and they demand your firstborn son for one (1) seed of the crop you need
>>738223316Argue this: WoW with material durability is a sandbox. So you have everything you had before, but now you can have horizontal playstyles and much more power because you earn it every time you stay alive or repair. The pivot (e.g., sandbox servers) doesn't even have to be hard. But now you have an economy. A + B is better than just A. Without risk, you're just going to have nothing to do, and you'll be able to see through the world.
>>738223258Plenty of people PvP in WoW. Whole servers are full of people at least willing to PvP. Just scale that into a world that's compelling and meaningful. It's easy to do.
>>738223204>You would have to reset it every couple months because every time I bet the whole planet would get genocided.No, just let players have their risk, instant gratification, and lasting rewards. You can scientifically do whatever you want to the world without stripping players of their items and money. A resetting world would lose to one that respects people's time and progress.
>>738223943>Whole servers are full of people at least willing to PvPganking isn't pvping
>>738210798literally the only MMO people say is good that i couldnt stomach getting past level 5 in, im convinced its botted
>>738224270>grr how dare people like something i don'tautism
>>738224098Non-sequitur. Not that you're right anyway. If you mean high levels vs. low levels, you're completely missing the point of this thread.PvP games are by far the most popular and hours played.
how to fix mmorpgs:-Stop trying to recreate everquest-Stop trying to make character building combat games-Stop being afraid to let players meaningfully roleplay ( read: let players temporarily control npcs/locations/factions )
>>738224518False equivalence. A vast majority of PvP games pitch player against player with both in equal footing i.e. no innate advantages against one-another.There's dozens of reasons one player may have innate advantages against another player in MMOs to the point the match may as well be decided before they even engage one another. Not just level, but gear, class, spec, consumables, even just catching another player off-guard. And this is assuming the encounter is a 1v1.MMO PvP will never be more than a thrill in overworld gameplay, a minigame at best. At worst it will actively harm the game balance and the fun of the game due to balancechasing.
>>738209618not interested in design theorizing about mmos until the industry makes more to fulfill the quota for my armchair designer autism
>>738209618if you put your autism to the grindstone as much as you put it to spamming these threads for years your pipedream mmo by now.and you would have seen it flop firsthand.dumb ideasguy
>>738225043It's not a false equivalence. Popular games like APEX and Fortnite give you RNG power based on where you drop, which is worse than earning power by being lucky or ingenuitive. And people do this over and over again.Also, you're assuming large differences in player power is inherent with the genre, but New World had level scaling, which would've been really good if it wasn't a linear treadmill themepark.Not that a perfect MMO wouldn't have large differences in power, at least on some servers.
>>738225203I can't have a computer where I live, or I would. I would still post MMO threads.
Where's the ritualposters?
>>738224518>>738225043>>738225376Look at this nutjob arguing with himself
>>738223268minecraft, warhammer online, apb reloaded
>>738227273Why do you even post like that? On an anonymous image board? Those are two posters. Why would I argue with myself? The fact that you even think that means you're off your rocker.
>>738223268also runescape if you nitpick by ignoring all the updates that killed it
>>738227475I know your tricks nutriments, the walls have eyes nigger faggot.
>>738227441How many people do you even think have heard of those games, or in the case of Minecraft, servers that can host the amount of people required to call it an MMO?How many players at one time even is Minecraft?>>738227624RuneScape is an example of a sandbox succeeding. It gets 250k concurrent.
>>738228309At least 100k is bots, though
>>738227704>Projecting.
>>738228309>>738228460if you only care about metrics you are a jew and don't know anything about video games.
>>738232258Everybody who cares about metrics cares about quality.I want to say that popularity has done an OK job of relating game quality. It's not perfect, and the industry needs a connector for people playing together and discovering objective quality, but popular games are at least baseline fun.
>>738233346>"popular games are at least baseline fun">try to play WoW, get bored to death within 1 day of playing>try to play FF14, get bored to death within 1 day of playing>try to play OSRS, get bored to death within 1 week of playingMaybe I just don't like mmos...Or maybe there's more to the genre than "spend dozens of hours grinding to make your numbers go up so you can do the actual interesting content"I wanted to play Fellowship to see if my problem with mmos was just the grind part and maybe the dungeons part was fun, but my friend group didn't want to play it
EverQuest legends soon bros
>>738233346in other words, you are a jew with no taste
>>738233535>"spend dozens of hours grinding to make your numbers go up so you can do the actual interesting content"That's part of what the whole thread is about.You should try WoW max level PvP, though.>>738233778How so? I'm not saying popularity is entirely definitive, but I'm glad that reasonably good games are popular, and I know that popularity will eventually be derived from quality.
>>738209618I don't want to play an MMO at all. I want to be alone. But you think literally nobody could, right? Because "connectedness" or something.
>>738233936>reasonably good games are popularEnormous leap in a world where NBA2Kwhatever sells gangbusters every time it releases.
>>738234024Why don't you want to play an MMO?
>>738234072I don't want to play an RPG of any kind with other people. Especially not one that's played in real time. I don't mind leveling or dungeons or raids or any of that, I mind the fundamental premise of playing an online game with strangers in the modern internet.Even in the extremely unlikely event I wanted to roleplay with random people online, I would likely just want roleplay, not an RPG.
>>738209618Why would I need a second job? If gaem isn't enjoyable or relaxing, why bother with it unless you're 15?
>>738234058I don't actually have a problem with that. Timing your shot release to make baskets is fun, and driving to the paint and dunking is kino.If you think about it, a lot of people are into sports, so a lot of people play sports games. I'm not saying they play all day, every day, but buying the game and playing every once in a while is good. Multiplayer is great.
>>738234165Do you play other multiplayer games?You should try WoW arenas if you like skillfulness.
>>738234230Why do you think the economy of a living world is equivalent to a second job? You don't even have to do it, but the option should be available.
>>738222721Albion has less than 10 players? Dang...
>>738234468It shouldn't. In modern MMOs, player interaction as well as players' impact on the economy should be minimized.Otherwise, you'll always end up with a gookslop that dies out completely within a month.
>>738234413I do not play anything with a meaningful multiplayer component at this point, and my relation with skill heavy games is objectively not a healthy one.I derive entertainment from mechanics. Watching other people touch the same mechanics in the same way I do does nothing for me, and watching them touch the same mechanics either better or worse than I do makes me want to rip my hair out.
>>738223268Trying to think but isn’t mabinogi a sandbox mmo? Like you can follow the main quest line but you legitimately don’t have to. Remember 20+ years ago I didn’t even know about the generation quests and just punched bears and ran random dungeons
>>738234617>player interaction as well as players' impact on the economy should be minimizedBased on what metric of fantasy-meets-reality?
>>738234684With over 20 years of experience playing this shit, son
>>738234751>This whole aspect of a living world shouldn't exist because just -- I just don't like it.You do. It puts people in the world, and crafting is a good way to get equipment and other items. Any other opinion is wrong, and you don't want to have wrong opinions, do you?
How do you make a new, successful MMO in this day and age? Your competition is going to have far more content than you even if you do have a massive amount of money and spend several years building the world, quests, and systems.
How did the French manage to make the best MMORPG of 2026?
>>738236181You don't.
>a PvP centric MMO will finally dethrone WoW because small-scale niche PvP games are "popular"
>>738235802because it doesn't work with real people anymore. Unless, of course, you have a spare planet where the internet has just become available
>>738236181>Your competition is going to have far more content than you even if you do have a massive amount of money and spend several years building the world, quests, and systems.Almost none of that content is relevant to max level play, and people wouldn't complain if you gave them more to do than a handful of instanced content and world quests.
>>738236349>nichePvP games are by far the most popular and hours played games. PvP is an inherent drive.
>>738236716Anon, gathering, crafting, and trading are some of the most relevant aspects of a living world. People do them all the time. You don't need to pretend that a world without an economy is good.
>>738236810then surely we would see popular PvP driven MMOs succeeding in the marketbut we don'tbecause PvPers don't actually want real PvP, they want to gank lowbies
>>738236905only jews care about "the market"
swtor is the only mmo atm thats fun to meff14 has too many buttons and i clocked out of the story halfway through expac 3wow is lmaoeso i hate weaving combatgw2 looks and feels datedlotro looks super dated
>>738234617>>738236716ThisNo one will ever again get the full MMO experience.Our last hope lies in substitutes - MMOs packaged as single-player games, like Erenshor or WoW’s solo servers.
>>738209618you still haven't made an argument to how removing leveling and allowing unrestricted trade keeps progression and you've been posting this thread for a decade now.
>>738209618You want to play a survival game bro. MMOs will always be gacha/P2W grinding games or else they make no money.
>>738225376>Popular games like APEX and Fortnite give you RNG power based on where you drop, which is worse than earning power by being lucky or ingenuitive. And people do this over and over again.How is "earning power by being lucky" not RNG? And ingenuity will never survive in an era of every strategy getting a dozen YouTube videos explaining it within an hour of the patch dropping and a tool automating it within a week. People accept imbalances in PvP when the investment and cost of losing is low; worst case scenario you queue up again and you're back in action in five minutes. As the penalty for dying increases (items take longer to replace, XP losses higher, etc.) then people become more loss averse, PVP tends to become asymmetrical ganking, and overall engagement with "full loot PVP" becomes increasingly niche.
>>738237074>ff14 has too many buttonsit really doesn't but they're removing them next expac anyway summoner literally only has like 3 buttons lmao
>>738236181I am trying desperately to tell you but you're not listening. People don't want the "biggest most epic most expensive MMO ever made", people want something new.
>>738237597fag
>>738237597It has rotations consisting of 20-35 buttons anon it really has too many buttons
>>738237597thank god they're condensing 213 and 456 into 2 buttonssituational buttons will help condense more
>>738237720>rotation consisting of 20-35 buttons>look inside>its like 6 repeating and 3 buffs every 2 minutesuh huh
>>738236905What PvP MMO are people supposed to play? Every MMO people know about is themepark shit.
>>738237329I'm not kidding, I would play a single-player version of Vanilla WoW with friendly AI that likes to form groups and chat. It's not that hard to fake. My guild just made Chuck Norris and Talladega Nights jokes.
>>738237426You just start people with all of their class fantasy abilities, have sets acquired through crafting and PvE that sometimes massively increase size, speed, and power rivaling comics (probably abilities, DPS, gathering speed and amount, etc.), and make durability that's sometimes extremely low that has to be repaired with up to large amounts of materials.
>>738209618MMOs as a concept are outdated. These days the whole genre is just a bunch of 30-40-year-olds clinging to nostalgia for their youth. Live service games have completely replaced all the features that MMOs used to have.
>>738236905tired trope for trannies to post in every emerging mmo's discord general chatdo you have anything real to say?
>help build up guild from the ground up on nostalrius>have the time of my life and create e-friends i talked to every day>take game seriously and help out guild mates>nost gets shut down>take big break from private servers>play elysium/lightshope casually since i'm not really keen on pservers anymore>classic wow gets to released>ask e-friends from pserver scene for a discord invite>get told i need to go through the application process>application gets rejected>i'm too casual apparentlyI gave up on making e-friends again after that.
>>738225376>RNG power based on where you drop, which is worse than earning power by being lucky?
>>738225376it's not about starting with the most power, that's called a handicap dumb lil niggagood players enjoy starting from behind
>>738241497>non-casual wow playersYou dodged a fucking bullet there.With a few exceptions the top guilds on a server are filled with some of the most mentally ill hyper-competitive (yet bad at everything in life except for healing/dpsing in this one video game) people with micron-thin egos who will explode with fury after a single wipe and start threatening people.After the top guild on my vanilla server broke apart, when the GM had a huge meltdown on C'thun naturally, my guild absorbed some of their members that didn't switch servers and they talked about that guy like a fucking cult leader. They both revered and feared him, it was surreal. Needless to say, when the GM came back a year later, they all came running back to him.
>>738236181I simply do not.MMOs are a relic of a forgotten era in which computers and networking were so shit having more than 5 people connected remotely to the same server without something giving up the ghost was a miracle. But now that's industry bogstandard.Besides, most people just want gameplay-focused MMO activities just want "WoW but good". Whatever that means (hint: it does not exist, they cannot even settle on what makes Classic "good"). They don't want a new videogame, they just want WoW. But "good". They're already playing WoW or a private server of WoW and they're not letting go unless the next one is also WoW. Just look at how discussion in this ritualthread always, ALWAYS revolves around using WoW as a baseline, and most images posted are also WoW-themed. I'm sure this also goes for whichever MMO takes second and third place if they're not playing WoW already for whatever reason. Simply put, MMOs are a genre that literally runs on sunk cost fallacy, and trying to poach off settled games is a herculean task compared to other genres. Making a good game isn't enough, you need to make an excellent game that justifies people letting go from the years they already sunk into their game.
>>738241497>wow players>friendsthose "people" will only tolerate you for as long as you serve as a stepping stone to their goals
>>738237525I love survival games, but you can have that in an MMO. Identity increases as risk increases. You just have to balance how loss affects immersion.>>738237538>>738241580At least in an MMO you can sell it or disenchant it.People having access to knowledge such as drop rates doesn't negatively affect gameplay.I'm not arguing for full loot except on specific servers, and you can't really argue that reasonable loss is negative. Games like Minecraft, Rust, and ARK are really popular.
>>738237603I agree that people want something new, but keeping players is another story. Even Lost Ark and New World failed to keep players.
>>738236905>because PvPers don't actually want real PvP, they want to gank lowbiesMultiple MMOs have thriving instanced PvP. Don't be ridiculous.
>>738241959MMOs, at least modern MMO launches, are the most popular in the beginning. The problem of that there's nothing new or different about them to retain players, so people return to their comfort games
>>738240908>MMOs as a concept are outdated.An MMO is any other game with massive amounts of players and a persistent world. The increased social identity is unique and huge. You can be and meet anybody, and play with them, and everything you do is in front of thousands to millions.
>>738243278People want to play with the new shiny toy? Yeah no shit, it's called a honeymoon period for a reason.
>>738241827I didn't say anything about starting with the most power.
>>738243354>You can be and meet anybody>look inside>all trannies wearing hyper feminised character skinsuits escaping from the trainwreck that is real lifeMMOs are a genre for losers, and the bottom of the barrel is now much deeper than in the 2000s where those losers were fellow nerds.The internet you grew up with no longer exists.
>>738209618You plebs don't get it do you? MMO became real. We're living in a virtual world right now. Your virtual identity and persona has more presence than your actual physical self. Your online presence has more social status and value than your actual physical identity and persona. Even if you don't like using social media apps like Facebook, Insta, TikTok etc, you're still here in 4chan, whatever random forum / imageboards. You feel more at home chatting with random strangers online, or together watching a streamer on YT or Twitch chatbox, etc. Life imitating art and the virtual life has now replaced your personal identity and lifestyle. The hyperreal became real, replacing and displacing your true reality.
>>738243513thiswhy would i play 15 bucks a month to scream at retards too stupid to get out of the fire when i do this for free on 4chan?
>>738209618what in the chatgpt prompt
>>738241959>100 player servers exist, so 2,000 player servers aren't novel.No.>Besides, most people just want gameplay-focused MMO activities just want "WoW but good".OP already discussed what makes an MMO better than WoW.>Making a good game isn't enough, you need to make an excellent game that justifies people letting go from the years they already sunk into their game.It would be easy to do. Everything is themepark shit.
>>738243647>It would be easy to do.ok so do it
>>738209618I decide what matters though, not you.
>>738243475Appeal to absurdity.>The internet you grew up with no longer exists.People are usually normal. You're not likely to find an obvious weirdo for arenas or dungeons or whatever.
>>738243513People valuing online identity is good and reinforces the benefits of MMOs. We'll all play games together, and it will be good.
>>738243787>People are usually normal.Retarded is not normal.
>>738243556Surely you're not on 4chan all day, every day for days or weeks. You can do that in an MMO, and it's way more fun. An MMO is like a Discord server where you can duel, team up to fight a dragon, and share a daydream.
>>738243707I'm sure I will.
Is Dofus the last good MMO?
>>738243714Are you feigning God, anon?
>>738244071DQX is pretty good
I JUST WANT A GAME THATS FUN
>>738236198Good art style, unique gameplay, deep crafting system. What more do you want ? memory leaks ? user data leaks ? no content for 2 years ? devs destroying the stats system which worked for 25 years in a few months ? Shitty PvP events in a PvE game ?They have all this and more.
>>738221217Fuck I miss TERA PvP
>>738243041You don't understand. People don't want a new game. There's 100s of new games every day. People want a new kind of game, a game they haven't already played before. You can't release "WoW with small tweaks" for the 80 trillionth time and expect it to stick.
>>738243840Thanks for stoking the fires of hatred for my fellow man.How do these people manage to dress themselves.
>>738243915no thanks"other people" are an obstacle more often than they help. i don't want to tardwrangle dadgamers all evening to kill a singular dragon because timmy "has a life" which prevents him from getting out of the fire in a timely manner for some reason.
>>738244990What's your definition of fun?
>>738245546>People don't want a new game.>People want a new kind of game, a game they haven't already played before.
>>738245650>"other people" are an obstacle more often than they help.People succeed in instanced content way more than they fail. Like, exorbitantly more.
>>738245546What do you think this thread is about?
>>738210501fpbp
WE'RE SO BACK
>>738223164>everything of importance is always done inside instances in organized groups,not in XI and everquest
>>738247367kino
>>738210501no
>>738209618Make the world a living place, flaws and all.MMOs gained their notoriety for their stories of communities, exceptions, and legends.WoW had all those things once upon a time, raids the average person only heard spoken of, people dragging bosses into town making everyone fight Teremus, the plague simulation, and the times where nobody knew anything so everyone was at their peak dipshittery and even scamfuckery, but it made for some bad laughs and a good story in retrospect.We live in an optimized age now, and most content is designed to be played. The community is much more unwelcoming than before, you must read the guides or you get shit on, both in pvp and pve.That all is to say, that the dream is dead. It relies on the wild west era of the internet to work. No matter what ideas you put forth, all of them will age and fail because at their core they aren't what makes MMOs memorable. Nobody remembers a mechanic unless it was terrible or caused one of those blood plague-esque exceptions. It's why griefing is sort of the heart and soul of these games, people doing outrageous things and causing events to happen, or crashing them like that one time with the in-game funeral.These aren't things you can just program in deliberately, they're often discovered by and pushed by people. It has absolutely nothing to do with a particular mechanic.WoW is also the greatest example. Early WoW has many stories, late WoW has very little. They engineered the interesting things, the soul right out of the game so nobody has anything to really talk about.
Another thread where OP describes Mabinogi but won’t play it for some reason
>>738213224Just integrate discord as the game's internal chat system with a fallback is discord stops working. People will refuse to go back to normal discord without the MMO attached. First to do this efficiently wins the market
>>738220697ARK is absolutely irredeemable slop.
>>738221217GW1 pvp has you fully covered. Fun as hell. Can create new characters to try builds too just for the pvp. Play randomized or with a team. Die, go instantly back if you want, or go do something else
>>738247846Just make players elites and bosses by giving them god equipment that gives them size, speed, and power rivaling comics and makes them good at everything.
>>738248072The only thing wrong with it is that it has some bugs. I would make servers full too.
>>738222882>What is there to do but LFD?Raids and Dungeons are the primary fun thing in mmos.
>>738223176>I guess you like just playing PvE and/or PvP forever, but lots, if not most, people want to get rich and powerful via game knowledge and deep systems.No. Most people want to PvE/PvP forever.
>>738248440>>738248523You're not going to feel immersed in the world if all there is to do is dungeons and raids.
Dungeons shouldn't be instanced
>>738248603Wrong.
The MMOs you want already exist but you refuse to play them because they are old/clunky/information overload/you have no friends/time/money etc
>>738248662Good luck and have fun with your 1 square mile of content.
>>738248854There isn't a game like SWG or medieval fantasy EVE. Are there even any futuristic sandbox MMOs?
>>738248854What's it's name?
>>738249063Worked for the past 20 years, will continue to work.
>738220697>738248072No. I DON'T expect AI to be pivotal at all. AI as a crutch is for braindead monkeys and pajeets who have no considerable mental faculties to make things on their own and improve of those things. There's nothing "fun" about that Webm you posted either, because nothing happens. As for Ark being tied with any game, that's never going to happen. The retards can't even optimize their game files properly, so you're installing a half terabyte game because unused game files take up unnecessary space on your hard drive. They made horrible cash-in games that fail to even remotely break into the popularity their first game somehow did. And I bet you Ark 2 will be in early access despite how long it's taking to release whilst re-releasing a remaster of the first game for NO REASON.(you)'re still undeserving of a real reply.
>>738249247People like you are so extremely annoying. I'm going to have to find a way to filter posts that are a reply but don't link to anything
>>738249404I accept your concession. Even if you're NTA.
I still like Lineage 2
>>738234072Because the biggest problem of MMOs is that other people expect you to treat it like a job.>you dont want to log in at 4AM to clear that world boss respawn/grab that point/defend your castle? /gckick, server discord blacklist
>>738248854yeahI think DQX sounds great but it's not officially translated and getting it and everything you need to do just to get it running in english sounds like a pain
>>738250000Why do I automatically see the price in dollars when I look at this picture?
