not that i know of. the whole point of video games is to waste time

>>738257913
Yes. It's why Red Dead Redemption II is unsalvageable.

Depends if it's still fun or just buyswork.

>>738257913
>puzzles that require taking notes of the environment and piecing together clues
Good
>can't solve the puzzle because the game decided you can't get the specific room or item required for that day
Bad

>>738257913
bought this and refunded it. it was boring. i solved many puzzles but none of it was very interesting and the roguelike mechanics didnt add much, just made me see the box puzzle 4 times in 80 minutes

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When players don't respect themselves or their time, you can make any bullshit time sink you want and people will still play it.
There's no getting around the fact that games are fundamentally wastes of time no matter how you slice it, but it is a shame that we've shifted so far away from fun, tight, arcade-like pacing and speed in favor of everything trying to be "forever games" with predatory roguelike/roguelite/randomizer trash or empty open worlds. All garbage designed to make players think they're playing something that's larger than it is despite being extremely shallow.
And above all, worse than all of that shit, is games that suck ass but try to be "forever games" in discourse by leaning into mentally ill/retarded fanbases rather than being quality games.

>>738258378
>There are multiple ways to rig the "RNG" to get you exactly what you want most of the time, you just need to discover them
Good.

On my Dare Mode run i'd unlocked as much in 1 day as it took me to unlock in 50 days on my first save.

>>738258573
>"RNG"
Retard

>>738258429
Filtered retard.

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>>738257913
>Does a game need to respect a player's time?
No

>>738257913
I fucking hate how this game is build. It was relatively fun at first, but once I reached the Gallery the game lost me.
That part and onwards were the most bizarre and obscure autistic shit I've ever seen

>>738258630
cope

>>738258656
The solution to the gallery is literally spelled out for you later on if you get stumped.
The point where it falls apart and stops providing multiple avenues for solving things are claming the throne and the atelier, especially the atelier.

>>738258714
It's not my fault you're literally stupid.

the puzzles fall into 2 categories
>mundane and simple but require rng or busywork to input the solution, making it take a while
>obtuse bullshit
unironically the worst game ive played in recent memory. The actual number of puzzles is staggeringly few, it just feels like there are more because of how drawn out everything is

>>738258830
i solved every puzzle room i came across, got the right answer on every box puzzle and solved the billiard room puzzle after a while. none of it was entertaining though. youre coping the game is just boring and wasting your time

>b-b-but the meta puzzles that last through multiple days
i was already bored when these started popping up and couldnt be arsed to take manual notes for this boring rogueslop. also slow as fuck boring cutscenes. refunded that shit

the problem with long video games is that after enough time you begin to feel like you're not the same person who started it, as if you were playing on someone elses save file

>>738259406
>boot up a day
>about five seconds of waiting until you get control
>slowly run (walking speed for normal people) to a door
>wait for door to slowly open
>pick up a shovel (game feels the need to show a cutscene that you got a shovel even though it's the 30th shovel you picked up on that file)
I could go on. You really do need to play this game with a speed up mod to avoid wasting a lot of time.

>>738257913
No, it has to be good all the way through, from start to finish, regardless of whether the game is 1 hour, 10 hours, or 100 hours long. Simple as that.

>>738258497
the point of F&H is the surprise factor, what's the point of making a dark fantasy game with a scary and threatening world if you can first time it?

>>738259543
dont forget
>waiting for 10 seconds each time you log in to a terminal
>walk 30 seconds each way to draft the outer room at the start of every day
>need to take a 5 minute walk of nothingness if want to get the crown in the last room
>multiple puzzles that require you to do it all over again after finishing it once because fuck you

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This game was ten times more unfair but /v/ will still suck its dick for some reason

>>738259968
there might be a comparison if the rooms you had access to in la-mulana were determined by an RNG roguelite deckbuilding minigame

>>738259406
>couldnt be arsed to take manual notes
Taking notes is a trap. You should be taking screenshots of every single letter, memo or book you find. Except don't even bother if don't have the magnifying class or you'll miss out on a lot of essential information.

>>738259543
you think five seconds is a long time?

>>738259406
>got the right answer on every box puzzle and solved the billiard room puzzle after a while
Those are literally just there to give you gems and a key. That's like bragging about jumping on a goomba.

>>738257913
Let's make a mystery game but the mystery is some boring as shit nobody cares about. Oh and you can beat the game without solving the mystery. 10/10 good game.

>>738260167
When you compare it to a game like Isaac, Slay the Spire or Enter the Gungeon where starting a run actually puts you right into the run an unskippable cutscene at the start of every run is annoying.

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>>738260589

>>738260589
>When you compare it to a game like Isaac, Slay the Spire or Enter the Gungeon
who said i need to do that thoughbeit?

>>738260167
Do you prefer no loading times or 5 seconds of loading screens?

>>738261014
five seconds, of course. you knew this was the obvious choice right?

>>738261063
Right, I didn't expect anything less from a BP fan.

>>738261221
who or what is a BP fan?
i don't even know what this thread is about faggot

>>738261307
terribly unfunny and unintelligent

For me, it was when i started solving puzzles where the "reward" was hints or solutions for other puzzles that i had solved hours before.

i also liked how the "mystery" was "this lone kid is actually the king of this country and uh..."

>>738261514
>i also liked how the "mystery" was "this lone kid is actually the king of this country and uh..."
so, you didn't finish the game and just guessed, huh?

>>738261564
anon that was the point of half the puzzles in the game.

>>738261650
yes. it is often the case that the first half of a story is misleading.
have you ever read a book before

>>738261725
the latter half, retard. one of the last puzzles is dipshit literally claiming the throne of blue-nation.

>not bluvaria
i had one job

>>738259890
>wait 30 real life minutes to solve the clock tower puzzles
And then I had to do it again because I hadn't even found the Sanctum.

>>738261873
so you didn't finish the game. cool cool

>>738261984
The throne room puzzle is like the second to last puzzle, its the last thing you'll do before the atelier, which is also just another, older will deeding the rougelite castle to dipshit.

or are you just confused by me referring to the player character as dipshit?

>>738262218
brother you sound like you barely even have played the game.

>>738261514
Dude same. I'd spend DAYS on puzzles. With a notebook full of notes. Only for the reward to be something I've already solved or some clue I already had. It just felt tedious and boring. I wanted the game to be so much more than it actually was.
For a game that forces you to go through so much it's pretty lame that you don't seem to actually need to solve any of the mystery to complete it.

>>738262354
oh i see, you think you're trolling. got it.

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>>738262354

>>738262443
NTA but there's a bunch of content past that point. It's all inconsequential albeit, and designed to waste even more of your time with no payoff.
The game even has unique messages for players who have spent multiple years in game. The developer was literally trying to waste your time.

>>738262965
>content
>past putting the secret passage in the cave and using the watering can to turn one of the books blue to find a beta version of the castle where the puzzle is a color coded maze to another 46th room with an older will/deed in the safe

so you're not trolling, you're just straight up lying.

>>738257913
>RNG faggotry
Once I got the final door and unlocked the inheritance I stopped playing. You can literally have all the answers, know exactly what you need to do and still get fucked because lol rng. Terrible dog shit gameplay. And no I'm not using faggot ass cheating mods to fix their dog shit gameplay mechanics.

>>738263251
>he doesn't just load up cheat engine any/every time he sees currency based "rng" mechanics.

>>738263336
No, I don't. Because I'm not a cheating nigger. You didn't beat the game btw.

>>738263369
rng/roguelike "balance" is literally the developers cheating though.

>>738263156
You clearly haven't found the last letter yet, completed the crown gems puzzle, solved the mother mystery, and reached the true ending among other puzzles.

>>738262965
NTA either. The way I see it is the dev realized he had made too much "mystery content" and if he made it all required nobody would like his game. So rather than clean it all up and make it good, he just awkwardly included it anyway and made none of it required, claiming it was *bonus* content.
The whole game feels like an unfinished proof of concept and that's because that's what it is.

>>738258573
Most of these mechanics just increase the likelihood of these rooms appearing and nothing more.

>On my Dare Mode run i'd unlocked as much in 1 day as it took me to unlock in 50 days on my first save.
And? That's totally normal.

>>738263587
>you clearly havent done [shit you'd do before that]
...

It's insane how hard this was pushed by the rags only to fade into obscurity

>>738259247
>unironically the worst game ive played in recent memory
I can't remember the last time I was so bored by a game, everything is so tedious

>>738263878
it was basically designed for them. also to take longer than the refund window to realize how utterly shit it is.

>>738257913
Apparently not. I will go back to this game since people keep repeating that it's a master piece, but my first 5 hours were absolutely miserable. I would rather mash my head against a sadistic oldschool click and pointer, at least it's deterministic that I'm fucked.

>>738263681
Ok genius, so where is red letter 3 and what does it say?
What does the acronym SWNSNG mean?
Where is Mary?

That's right, you haven't beat the game.

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As a huge fucking loser who only works part time and spends 18 hours a day waiting to die, yes, video games definitely need to respect the player's time.

I have no idea how the fuck people can stand loot treadmill games like Destiny or MMOs where you have to run a dungeon a 100 times to get a chance at a single piece of equipment that might have shitty stat rolls making it nearly fucking useless and there's no mechanic that lets you reliably improve those stats,

Hell, even fucking X4: Foundations has those stupid RNG upgrade modifications, Thank fuck you can mod them to work correctly.

>>738264038
its "journalists" saying that, because they figured out a couple of ways to "break" the game and it seemed to be intentional because you could get a reward for it so they think its some piece of immaculate clockwork where the final solution is to basically break the game in every possible way... instead of just jank.

I'm looking for decent puzzle games
I already played the talos, I already played all those obra dinns, I didn't play the witness yet (about to) and I don't know if this one's good because I heard there's RNG on it.

>>738264267
i did do all of that though. it was just so boring that I don't remember.

Many of the games best puzzles and riddles have nothing to do with reaching the credits. The roguelike elements completely killed the satisfaction of the puzzle solving for me.
There a delay between solving something in your mind and testing or executing the solution. The game restricts players ability to test solutions as testing and being wrong could ruin a run. Being unable to solve a puzzle not because you haven't figured it out but because RNG has not deigned to give you enough resources this run feels terrible. And it puts an undue pressure on the player to solve a room or a coincidence of rooms the first time they're encountered rather than thinking and coming back, because you have no idea when it might next reoccur.
Lastly, a lot of the puzzles are very obtuse and rely on you randomly finding a bit of paper with the solution plainly written on it, rather than being something the player has any hope of figuring out. The word-based puzzles are really poor, third rate cryptic crossword type things.
Also, as others have noted, much of the puzzle rewards are just solutions to other rewards and don't meaningfully progress the story. Leading to the whole thing feeling like a giant time sink.

>>738264267
>bp schizo is proven wrong so he has to resort to trolling with cut content
many such cases

>>738264482
no its actually horrible and a game for midwits. Play case of the golden idol instead

>>738264607
Unfortunately I already played that too

>>738264552
>He couldn't solve it
It's ok to be dumb

>>738257913
Yes
if "progress" in your game can be made by simply repeating the same task over and over I will just cheat myself the resources and then proceed

>>738258497
I still can't get over the fact that faggots are unironically calling the fact that this game requires meta knowledge to play it a positive

I don't know about this game or anything similar to this, but I know that games should respect the player enough not to make ingame cutscene sections that cannot be skipped (the typical walk forward for 5 fucking minutes while someone's talking to you or in this one indie game people here don't know about, Crimson Desert, sections where even though you can teleport and fly around, you are forced to grab a horse and follow someone on a mission, which there are a lot of)

>>738258429
Really wish it just saved articles/notes you've seen. Having to screenshot everything myself was a bit annoying.

>>738265373
Making a huge collage of clues in Gimp was the only aspect of tge fame I found fun

when people get so sick of walking around in circles (read: solving puzzles that only give solutions/hints for already solved puzzles) they just say fuck it and datamine the game to see if any of the shit is going anywhere, you have failed as a game developer. as people only turn to datamining once they've stopped having fun.