Wait, wait... so the overarching big bad of the Final Fantasy franchise is just some lame ass dragon from the fifth game?... is that all?
>look it up>it's ShinryuKek he got locked in a fucking chest in FFV. He was still a superboss but that's pretty funny.
>>738291076It's ridiculously stupid. This is what they chose to be the big, BIG BAD of all the games? Why did they make FFV so significant in terms of the setting? I just don’t get it.Pretty let down by the FF creators. It comes across as half-baked.
>>738291208Because FF5 has strong ties to FF's concept of dimension hopping/the void.
>>738291208>overarching big bad>big, BIG BADis this some new thing i'm not aware of? every game is self-contained and Shinryu is usually just a strong dragon you fight separate from the main villains and storyline
>>738291690In the Dissidia games, Shinryu is portrayed as the ultimate cosmic villain, preying on all the Final Fantasy worlds through the Rift that links them together. The recent Stranger of Paradise carried on with this concept.I just find stupid that an optional boss from FFV became such a huge deal. Specially because it is just a stupid dragon.
>>738289223Shinryu? Dissidia basically needed a guy so strong he makes Chaos look like a little bitch, and some recurring secret bonus boss fits the bill. Maybe it would be better if there wasn't much story related to him and he just kept being strong dragon guy, but he fulfills a purpose in much the same way it fulfills a purpose to have some guy named Cid.
>>738291885>Specially because it is just a stupid dragon.As opposed to what, another human guy?
>>738291885oh, I haven't paid much attention to Dissidia. they just needed a powerful enemy associated with multiple dimensions because it's a crossover series and I suppose a recurring superboss fit that role
>>738291891>needed a guy so strong he makes Chaos look like a little bitchHaving beat FFVPR last week, Omega was way harder than Shinryu, not to mention he had way more aura just standing there waiting for you to interact with him
>>738291891A guy named Cid being a multiversal constant is strange, but fine. But a dull dragon that traverses the void between spaces, feeding on things like some Galactus knockoff, is just... If it were from any other game, I might be fine with the concept, but for a franchise like FF, it just feels so pedestrian and half-baked.
OP shut the hell up and stop being an autistic retard, it’s a dragon and that is reason enough. End this useless thread.
>>738292112Bahamut would've made more of an impact than Shinryu, that's just a plain retarded choice no matter how you slice itYou have the literal king of dragons but here's a boxed retard instead
>>738291973Yeah, Omega seems pretty weak compared to Shinryu, especially since Omega is just a man-made creation. Dissidia turned Shinryu into one of the highest-ranking entities in the Final Fantasy cosmos. It is not just a monster anymore; it is a fundamental, almost natural force of the Interdimensional Rift and the Void.
>>738291968This is the most obvious easiest explanation. People will still continue to kvetch anyway.
Thanks to Dissidia and Stranger of Paradise, Shinryu (from FFV) now operates on a divine, mystical level. It’s a primordial, multiversal dragon born of magic and crystalline energy, naturally dwelling in the Void and traveling freely between dimensions through the Interdimensional Rift (also from FFV). It feeds on the energy of clashing gods, embodying the wild, chaotic, and infinite essence of the franchise's multiverse. And yeah, it’s kind of silly that a random optional boss from FFV ended up getting such a big upgrade.
>>738292112This specific dragon is stupid. This can't be overstated enough.
Dragons are boring and gay. Literally any other fantasy creature will make you look like less of a faggot than putting a dragon in your story.
>>738292930If this were any other franchise, I might be fine with a flamboyant dragon being the overarching big deal, but when you consider the entire series, its final bosses, and the variety of creatures in every game, a bright yellow dragon with such a bland design being portrayed as this massive threat is just baffling. Especially when you remember that in FFV, he was merely a curiosity, an optional boss, a dragon tucked away inside an ordinary box.
>>738292930Stop being a subversive faggot.
>>738293126Look at this.
>>738291998They went with like a 6 year old's "my superhero is a zillion times tougher than Superman" bullshit. Dissidia doesn't have a great story anyway, and I even consider the FF characters in it to be different to the ones actually from the mainline FF games. There's no way that some monster in a box from an SNES game is secretly a multiversal godlike entity, no matter how much they push that.
>>738293126Nothing is more cringe than some fantasy shit with a dragon on the cover. Tells me to avoid because the writer is bankrupt.
>>738293191I hate that Stranger of Paradise leaned even harder into the Dissidia elements. They turned Shinryu into a bizarre mix of Galactus and Loki, to borrow some comic book jargon.
This is why I'm going to continue to ignore most of the FF side games. The main series is enjoyable because each one is fresh, they keep the fun/goofy shit like chocobos and magic crystals and shit, but you get new big bads ranging from the ultimate origin of evil to some rando dude that got power and decided to be a cunt. Your heroes can be angsty animu boys, gruff gigachads, or funky little wizard dudes. I don't want continuity, I don't want convoluted plots, Kingdom Hearts is that way.
>>738289223>*overarching big bad of DissidiaCrossover games exist in the crossover dimension and they are irrelevant to every work featured in them. This is a well established tradition for all crossovers, nobody thinks 'Ultron Sigma is the big bad of capcom and marvel' just because of marvel vs capcom
are we seeing a schizo develop in real time
>>738289223What is this trannery
>>738293190This is the old version
>>738291885Chaos was originally, but he was defeated in the psp games. Shinryu just snuck in while there was no competition. NT is fucking ass anyway and somehow the new mobile game is even worse
>>738291885Doesn't shinryu just translate to True Dragon in japanese? Kinda lame
>>738293623according to what I've learned in XIV, this is a reincarnation of God after he gets mad and blows up the world, right?
>>738293526Pretty sure Shinryu was foreshadowed in the old games, he just never made a physical appearance.
>>738291208>It's ridiculously stupid. This is what they chose to be the big, BIG BAD of all the games?Isn't that Chaos? Shinryu is like Omega's rival at best.
>>738292303Bahamut is a whale tho
>>738293552Apparently the "Shin" uses the kanji 神 meaning god, so it's God Dragon. Quite literally Shenlong.
>>738292684some people are literally unable to comprehend the notion that authors like doyle are responsible for every single thing in fiction and thus *can* make characters like watson say absolutely anything, no matter how coherent or believablethey are the ones engaging in lethally dangerous mental gymnastics trying to explain everything and anything diegetically, even though half the time the *real* answer is I DID IT THAT WAY CUZ IT WAS COOLsee also: powerscalers, fanboys who pretend araki never retconned anything, anons who try to tie every spinoff into a singular timeline
>>738292767Isn't it specifically running away from Omega in one of their major appearances?
>>738292303they can't use bahamut, he's usually a good guy that tests the partyeven at his most evil, in XIV he's actually already dead and you're only fighting a magical golem facsimile of bahamut
>>738292767>Thanks to Dissidia and Stranger of ParadiseFFXI
>>738293327Not according to Square-Enix.In this reimagining, the Warrior of Light from FFI is a Manikin, a construct forged from magical ore mined in the Rift (from FFV), with a personality designed by the Lufenian scientist Cid. Instead of originating from FFI’s world, he hails from the dimension seen in the Dissidia games, a realm shaped and ruled by the Lufenian, before eventually crossing into the FFI world. Meanwhile, Shinryu from FFV isn’t just the series’ ultimate superboss but also the secret force driving pivotal events in FFI, FFII, and FFV.
>>738293813i get that but also thats the most boring explanation. like yeah of course things are the way they are because they were written to be that way, but that applies to every question you could ever have about the plot of any story
>>738292303Restrict Bahamut to XV’s true villain as a one-and-done anything else is going to piss off long term fans
>>738293951Again, all of those things are exclusive to Dissidia. Think of it as Dissidia existing in a universe that is identical to the normal FF one, with identical characters and stories, but also has all of those elements you just mentioned being part of it. That's how crossovers work
>>738294075Not according to Stranger of Paradise. Like it was said Stranger of Paradise doubled down on everything mentioned.
>>738293813Indeed, I don't think Occam's Razor isn't taught anymore.
>>738293985Things are as they are not what you want them to be.
>>738294207SoP is also clearly on a continuity of its own separate from the actual FF1 anyways
>>738293734>Shinryu is like Omega's rival at best.No, Chaos is simply a human-made creation, crafted from an ore found in the Rift, that eventually ascended to godhood. Shinryu is the real cosmic powerhouse. As for Omega, its lore says it was built by an ancient, hyper-advanced civilization, like the Omicrons in Final Fantasy XIV or some mysterious precursor race from Final Fantasy V and XV, with one clear mission: to track down and destroy a massive, god-like entity, almost always stated or strongly implied to be Shinryu.
BEHOLD. THE ULTIMATE TERROR WAITING AT THE END OF EVERY TIMELINE IN THE CASTLEVANIA FRANCHISE!
>>738294420FF XIV has it succeed.
>>738294441this nigga look like a magikoopa
>>738294263>>738293813Nobody is treating Shinryu as if it were real. I don't know how you could read the criticisms that way. The criticism is aimed at the SE creatives who couldn’t come up with anything compelling when expanding the lore meant to tie the different games in the franchise together. This is especially disappointing when some of the other games in the series are far more imaginative.So, in this analogy of yours, I’m basically saying Doyle is a total hack.
I assume this was after 012?
>>738294207You mean another side game which uses cross overs for its levels?
Aren't the Dissidia games barely even canon to each other at this point?
>>738294604Yea. NT is what happens after Chaos and the light lady (forgot her name) are gone
>>738294621There was absolutely no reason to care about dissidia canon in the first place.
>>738294621Final Fantasy games are barely canon to each other. Hell, they're barely canon even when they're explicitly sequels or remakes of each other!
based, ffv is the best, and shinryu being a jumpscare monster in a box is hilarious. my faurkin hero.>omega gets hyped and glazed by 14this is okay>Shinryu gets hyped and glazednooooooooo! this is not okay!
>>738294664Yeah but even the Dissidia spinoffs ended up with spinoffs that seem to ignore each other like the phone game and the 3 vs 3 game.
>>738294692shinryu was a total bitch in ffxiv anyway
>>738294720Anon I'm agreeing with you
Who's YOUR bossfu anon? Which boss would you like to get more of a spotlight?For me it's Ozma, love that wacky beachball
>>738294810BRING HERBACK
Rejoice!While Shinryu may be one of the most formidable beings within the Void and the Interdimensional Rift linking the Final Fantasy games, it is essentially just an apex predator swimming in an endless ocean. It didn’t create that ocean, and it certainly doesn’t rule over it.If you want to look at the entity that actually represents the Void made manifest, you look to the Cloud of Darkness from Final Fantasy III, who is the literal embodiment of the universe's desire to return to absolute nothingness.So the ultimate big bad of the franchise is a hag.
>>738294720>>738294769>>738294664>>738294621012, the original Dissidia, and NT are all part of the same canon, and now Strange Journey is connected to it as well.Opera Omnia is explicitly non-canon and now Duellum is its own thing.
>>738289223DISSIDIA MUSOU WHEN SQUARE ENIX?! IT'LL PRINT FUCKING MONEY
>>738295092I thought Opera was just another cycle round the time of NT?
>>738294943fuck hags
>>738295156They eventually decided to take their own approach with Opera Omnia, turning it into a sort of non-canon festival celebrating the franchise.
>>738295207What was the overall plotline? Is there even one? Was there a big bad?
>>738293863XIV's Midgardsormr gets the name Shinryu but is not THE Shinryu, though its Omega may be the predecessor to all of them
>>738295303You're asking about the Dissidia games in general, or just Opera Omnia?
>>738289223Anyone but Chaos being FF's biggest bad is stupid and lame.
I'm not the most educated on final fantasy lore, why is it bad that the celestial dragon thing is the big bad ultimate villain? From what I've gathered from the thread he goes between dimensions feeding on energy from gods and stuff, so isn't it a given that he'd eventually grow to a point where he becomes a multiversal problem? Again, I'm not well versed on this stuff so I'm genuinely asking here.
>>738295510Because a boring ass looking dragon being that important is gay and lame.
>>738295510People who complain about this shit are mentally brown or 12 years old
>>738289223>>738291208>>738291690>>738292303Shinryu has been the designated "strongest enemy in the series" for a very long time, this isn't some new thing that came out of nowhere. It's the original superboss of the franchise along with Omega, there's no boss that would be more fitting for the role. Shinryu also means "god dragon", which would outrank Bahamut's "king dragon".
>>738295539A normal ass looking dragon being the apex is much more interesting than over designed trash. See: fatalis
>>738295341Opera. I know the premise for the others, but didn't really bother with Opera
>>738295539as opposed to a boring ass demon or some faggoty David Bowie expy?
>>738295605>MidgardsormrFuck when is our boy going to wake up already
>*Seething over Shinryu*Omega hands typed these postssmug shinryu.png
>>738289223Shiny just runs World B, which is a Lufenian pocket dimensions meant to nurture the Manikin superweapon nicknamed Chaos. (No relation to any other Chaos.)Cid of the Lufaine made a deal with Shinryu to build the looping cycle of war in World B. Any time a team loses, Shinryu essentially eats their memories and EXP/Levels to power up, and the participants are reset to start over. No one except Cid, Shinryu, and Gilgamesh are real, they're all Manikin replicas modeled after heroes and villains from across the Final Fantasy multiverse, catalogued through the same Interdimensional Rift that was a major factor in FFV's story.
>>738295678when they need to worf someone to show the bad guys in the new expac mean business
sounds like some retarded nomura asspull
>Omega making MHfags seethe when Planetes came out.>Shinryu making this Anon seethe.Based FF5 superbosses, assblasting people over three decades later.
>>738294568i just don't believe there is any need to get blood out of a stone when the answer is so blatantly obvious, what point is there in discussing the narrative implications of shinryu being the villain in an action spinoff? just how lame it is and yet another dropped ball with FF? could be cathartic but unhelpful, no different than examining why nomura's girls all have long black hair (it's his type)>a total hacka tragically common occurrence, especially for squeenix
>>738294207SoP references Dissidia for gameplay and character design purposes, but as far as the story's concerned, Dissidia never happened.
>>738295751> No one except Cid, Shinryu, and Gilgamesh are real, they're all Manikin replicasGood lore digging on the Lufenian background and Shinryu's deal, but this part is completely backwards.The heroes and villains summoned to World B are 100% the genuine articles. They are the actual individuals. Otherworldly "Strangers" pulled from their respective universes through the Rift by Cosmos and Chaos.The Manikins are just the mindless, crystalline foot soldiers Cid created to build an army. The ONLY playable character on the main roster who is actually a Manikin is the Warrior of Light (he was one of Cid's "Perfectus" manikin). Everyone else, Cloud, Kefka, Squall, etc., is the real deal, which is why their entire goal is surviving the cycle so they can return to their actual home dimensions. This is heavily detailed in the Cosmos and Chaos Reports from the original Dissidia game.>nicknamed Chaos. (No relation to any other Chaos.)This is also a massive misunderstanding of the lore. Dissidia Chaos is intrinsically tied to the original FFI Chaos.It's true that Dissidia's Chaos started as Cid's blank-slate superweapon Manikin, the other "Perfectus". But when Cid lost control, who took over raising and protecting that Manikin? (Jack) Garland.The real (Jack) Garland from FFI was summoned to World B, a warped mirror version of FFI's world created by Cid, and basically became a surrogate father to the Manikin. Over the endless cycles of war, (Jack) Garland realizes that to maintain his own FFI time-loop destiny, he needs this being to become Chaos. (Jack) Garland pours his own memories, malice, dark energies, and the burden of the time-loop into the Manikin, ultimately by naming it Chaos. Dissidia Chaos isn't unrelated; he is the literal vessel for (Jack) Garland's FFI paradox.
>>738296138You didn't play the third DLC then.
>>738293762Yeah, "Shinryu" is just the Japanese name for Shenlong. It's not a name Final Fantasy came up with. Shenlong is not a name originating from Dragonball either, for that matter.
>>738296954So this thing is even more generic.
>>738293307>I don't want convoluted plotsFF is not for you.
>>738297089Wait until you find out where every other monster's name comes from
>>738292767>Thanks to Dissidia and Stranger of ParadiseFFXI was the one to make Shinryu go from merely an optional to being a big bad plot guy
not gonna lie, i prefer Bahamut from FF14
>>738289223N., The overarching big bad of the Final Fantasy is the Void. Its mere Avatars thus far having been Necron, Cloud of Darkness and Flood of Light. Shinryu is still bound within the multiverse/A-Worlds/Interdimensional Rift.
>>738297841*No.My apologies.
>>738295510It's not interesting. FF villains through design and Uematsu's music are a high point in the series. Putting a generic dragon above them is insulting. It's like the problem with the 2nd last versus the last fight in Elden Ring. Even the void villains like ExDeath, Cloud of Darkness and Necron are more interesting than a dragon. Necron is the least interesting of them but even his concept beats a shitty generic fantasy creature in a treasure box. It's just insulting to the entire series.
>>738298030>It's like the problem with the 2nd last versus the last fight in Elden Ringbut Elden Beast was really neato though
>>738298124You're the first person to ever say that. I don't know what you're adding with the outlier opinion when I'm trying to answer the question in a general sense. Congrats on liking that fight I guess.
>>738298030Meh, I find your opinion to be the generic option. In most modern fiction you get fantastical beings or whatever that ultimately ends up secondfiddle to just another human/humanoid true villain, like the fantasy version of how every zombie/post apoc film just defaults to humans as the real threat.
We just fought Shinryu at the end of the third FFXI alliance raid in FFXIV.
>>738292303>BahamutOh, he's around too. He's called Exnine Bahamut.
>>738298360And the current Unreal Trial in XIV is also Shinryu. What is this, the year of Shinryu?
Final Fantasy is for gay retards
>>738298360So fucking gay.
>>738294921I should play this game again, been so long since I played it
It all comes down to the release of Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn of Souls in 2004. This is where the massive additions started. Square Enix added four massive optional dungeons to FFI called the Soul of Chaos. These dungeons: the Earthgift Shrine, Hellfire Chasm, Lifespring Grotto, and Whisperwind Cove, were essentially crossover events tying FF1 to the rest of the series. At the bottom of these dungeons, you didn't fight new monsters but rather the famous bosses ported directly from Final Fantasy III, IV, V, and VI.These dungeons are sealed at the start of the game. They only open when you defeat the corresponding Fiend in the main story (e.g., defeating the Earth Fiend, Lich, opens the Earthgift Shrine, where you can fight four of the dark realm guardians from FF3). The game explains that the Fiends were hoarding so much elemental energy and messing with time so heavily that their deaths cause temporal backlash. Slaying them literally rips holes in the fabric of space and time. These rifts act as vacuums, pulling in locations, monsters, and phantoms from other dimensions (the other Final Fantasy games) via the Interdimensional Rift. You aren't necessarily fighting the "real" bosses from those games, but rather dimensional echoes or phantoms of them drawn into FF1's world.The bosses from FFV were also added to the game, but unlike the phantom bosses of the other FF games, Shinryu, Omega, and Gilgamesh are the "real" deal. Lore-wise, these three entities natively reside in or travel through the Interdimensional Rift. When the Warriors of Light tore holes in dimensions by killing the Fiends, these three simply wandered through the open doors looking for a fight.Square Enix also slightly altered the text in the town of Lufenia in FFI. An NPC was updated to explicitly state that an ancient Lufenian named Cid was the one who originally built the airship you find buried in the desert.This influenced not only the Dissidia games, but also Stranger of Paradise.
>>738299794Forgot to add, the PSP Anniversary Edition also added the Labyrinth of Time, a massive dungeon where your HP constantly drains and you have to sacrifice abilities to proceed.The Labyrinth is a pocket dimension where time is completely broken. It was created as a direct byproduct of the 2,000-year time loop tearing reality apart. At the end of it you face Chronodia, the physical manifestation of the broken seal of time. Because time has been looping over and over, all the malice, paradoxes, and dark energy from the Four Fiends pooled together at the bottom of this dimensional dump. This is why Chronodia's physical appearance incorporates the weapons, horns, and armor of the Four Fiends, as a literal embodiment of the timeline's garbage.Stranger of Paradise: Final Fantasy Origin is essentially the grand culmination of all the bizarre dimensional lore introduced in those GBA and PSP remakes as well the Dissidia games. Instead of just being a simple prequel to Final Fantasy I, the game retrofits all of that crossover content into its core narrative. The dungeons in Stranger of Paradise that reference the other FF games are the ultimate evolution of the "Soul of Chaos" dungeons from the GBA/PSP remakes. The lore explanation in SoP is that the Lufenians (the "mad scientists" behind the world's resets) used technology to pull architectural data and "memories" from other dimensions to stabilize their own.And just as the PSP remakes introduced the "Labyrinth of Time" as a dimensional dumping ground caused by temporal instability, Stranger of Paradise introduces the Rift Labyrinth in its second DLC. Because the Lufenians and Jack Garland were constantly resetting the timeline, the fabric of their dimension began to break down. This created a massive, 100-floor dimensional maze in the Hall of the Dark Crystal. And, exactly as the lore dictates, a tear in the dimensional rift means that Gilgamesh wanders through.
>>738300356Continuing with the various references. Throughout the SoP, you can also collect "Lufenian Reports." These logs detail how the highly advanced Lufenians acquired the god-like ability to manage Cornelia's timeline and reset the world at will. The reports reveal that the Lufenians made a pact with a mysterious entity classified only as their "Extraplanar Collaborator." The terms of the pact were simple: the collaborator granted the Lufenians the technology to manipulate time. In exchange, the collaborator gets to absorb the massive amounts of cosmic energy generated every time the world resets. This is the exact same MO as Shinryu in Dissidia games.In the third DLC, Emperor Mateus literally invades the Stranger of Paradise timeline. However, this is not the standard FFII Mateus; dialogue heavily implies that this is the Mateus from World B (the Dissidia universe). In the FFII remake, with the addition of "Soul of Rebirth," Mateus's defining trait was that in his boundless ego he refused to just conquer the living world, so his soul split to conquer both Heaven and Hell (in the original game it was just Hell). In Stranger of Paradise, he senses the immense power of the Lufenian crystals and steps through the dimensional rift to steal them. His goal is to expand his empire across the multiverse by conquering Jack's reality.So yeah, Square Enix is embracing all this convoluted continuity.
