When does difficulty become "artificial"?
when you use input reading like Fromshaff
When it's too hard for me
Godfrey literally does this, it's beyond parody.
>>738298816When you can see the developers actively misleading you in an unrealistic way that harms immersion.
>>738298816I cannot believe Fromsoft's janky ass combat became the industry standard. There are plenty of challenging games that don't feel like you're controlling a boat.
Never because the term is internet bullshit used by pseudes who can't actually articulate their problem. Yet at the same time they also want to sound profound. You can find a category of difficulty to complain about like the game not giving you tells or hp sponges using your big boy words. Not buzzwords.
>>738299904The problem is you have a community of knuckledraggers that want to act like they are good at something, so incessantly act like its the hardest game ever, and you are just filtered if you criticize it.
>>738298816Anyone have the webm where the boss bugs out, and attacks the player super fast?
input reading. simple as.
>>738298816Gradus 3 hitboxes.
>>738298816the tell is pretty obvious after seeing once or twice
>>738300074
>>738300139I could easily dodge this though
The problem is that people refuse to engage with the systems that From adds to make it less of a simple dodge rolling simulatorThey don't want to use shields or guard counters, they don't want to go for posture breaks, they don't want to use their jump/crouch to leap over or duck attacks, they don't want to utilize more than a handful of weapon arts or spells
>>738300165That's not the one, I just remember after he bugs out and destroys the player, he runs back, and sits down.
When it arises from shoddy developement like the fuckhuge hitboxes of the club-wielding giant warriors from Dark Souls 2 which are larger than the model of the clubs they wield
get on my level
>>738300230Sounds like a poorly designed game that can't guide the player towards having fun.Maybe don't have guard breaks hardbound to a shitty input like forward + attack.Maybe don't start autistically nerfing shields after DaS1 in the name of balance.
>>738300238Sounds familiar, I think I remember seeing the .gif. i don't think it was a boss though, I think it was one of the resting heide knights in the forest of fallen giants iirc.
>>738298816When it becomes impossible to overcome with skill. The example you posted, even if real, wouldn't be artificially difficult.
>>738300328H-he's fast!
>>738299280Yeah, this. Input reading is so stupid. It only makes sense if the enemy does some distance closing move to reach you when healing. But most of the time, it's bullshit like the enemy boss never attacking unless I attack then proceed to out poise me.
>>738298816When player input and even risk management for RNG based on rules that the game has previously established has no impact on the outcome and the outcome is instead based on luck, special knowledge or just grindan stats.This can be bad game design, a bad controller, poor programming or just padding to stall out the game.In ER the worst artificial difficulty is the Vigor gating, not the attack delay.
>>738298816>The telegraph is still obviousWatch the hammer. Dodge when it pauses. Bam, you've just mastered that boss fight.
>>738300165HAYAH
>>738298816dodge when the weapon moves forward
>>738300395It was iudex gundyr on a modded playthrough that had his speed cranked, i cant remember but he was either at 300% speed or got 1% faster every second
>>738298816Actually has a pretty reasonable tell in how the hammer starts swinging the opposite direction for 0.5 secondsAnd before that you are free to attack the boss for 10 seconds as its does its animationLooks like a tutorial level boss, I'd say?
>>738299993>bullshitthats probably the best way to describe what people feel is artifical difficulty. when you instinctively know that what happened was bullshit. thanks.
>>738300165>>738300328fromsoft made elden ring's bosses like this on purpose to retroactively pretend these weren't bugs
>>738298816When the difficulty is unfair and requires pure trial an error with no way to predict it. Or worse, when the outcome is mostly luck dependant.Having to memorize complicated bullshit patterns or having to play conservatively and tediously wait until you can land one hit isn't "artificial". It's just boring.
>>738300353>a shitty input like forward + attackBest thing is that those forward+ moves were made with 30fps in mind and it's much harder to do them consecutively (unless you press DIAGONALLY UP for some reason) at anything above.It's extremely noticable in PtD with dsfix where you can switch the framerate on the fly.
>>738299904wdym people love parrying and memorizing frame timingsit's all ARPG is now after all, parrying being the best option with stamina/posture management
>>738300328elden ring 2.... kino
>>738298816In a player vs enviroment setting all difficulty is artificial. Thats why pvp games are superior>Inb4 B-but muh matchmaking algorithm
>>738300328if you pay attention, you can clearly see the openings where youre supposed to get hits in
>>738300165>I AM THE SENATE
>>738304125>brapped to death
>>738298816Difficulty done really well is when it feels hard but fair.Difficulty done poorly is when a person is unable to intuit what is about to happen and what happens is beyond a persons ability to deal with unless they have prior knowledge.Keep in mind this is largely subjective and many fair things can seem unfair to people who dont know whats going on.>delayed attacksFor the most part they are not artificial difficulty. most can be dodged on reflexes alone the first time you see them.Some exceptions may exist like attacks in OP webm which itself is a hyperbolic representation>AoE beyond what you would think and does ridiculous amounts of damage.ie when an enemy with a big hammer is slamming down his hammer that has a moderate aoe and then 1 particular attack is randomly the entire arena big and you had to dodge or jump up no matter where you are. If this is not learned in some way beforehand that you are to expect the aoe to be that big and it one shots you then thats pretty dumbif they are not done with the hand then they are pretty dumb. stuff like sister fried having 2 different grab attacks she does with the scythe, its like oh ok well i lose half to 90% my HP to learn that attack cant be blocked/parried. that is kinda trial and error which is arguably artifical difficulty. or the police boss in lies of P who punches you, but has 1 attack that isnt a punch its a grab you cant block or parry, yeah that is trial and error or artificial difficulty.>attacks where the animation is misleading and intentionally meant to hit you the first timeeither purposefully misleading or say an aoe where the hitbox is way outside the visuals.>>738303507>Having to memorize complicated bullshit patterns or having to play conservatively and tediously wait until you can land one hit isn't "artificial". It's just boring.what spamming dual wield jump attacks does to a guy..
>>738304063
>>738304280>if they are not done with the hand then they are pretty dumb. stuff like sister fried having 2 different grab attacks she does with the scythe, its like oh ok well i lose half to 90% my HP to learn that attack cant be blocked/parried. that is kinda trial and error which is arguably artifical difficulty. or the police boss in lies of P who punches you, but has 1 attack that isnt a punch its a grab you cant block or parry, yeah that is trial and error or artificial difficulty.was talking about grab attacks
>2012+14>still crying because elden ring is too le hardGrim
>>738304285made me kek
>>738300165>>738304125>>738304285Does anyone have the Elden Ring webm where the player is constantly getting magnetized towards the foe and ends up slammed into a cliff?
>>738304280>beyond a persons ability to deal with unless they have prior knowledge.This logic has amused me since DS2, the souls games have incredibly forgiving death mechanics, sure you go back to the bonfire but you are not hard locked into a fight you cant beat due to stats and acn always go somewhere else / do something else to gain levels / gear / whatever, its not a traditonal save system where you can softlock yourself with poor save rotations.Dying to learn a bosses mechanics is not inherently bad design, if everything was always telegraphed so hard even DSP could beat it on his first attempt then the game would be extremely boring to play. But tards took the "hard but fair" logic too far and began whining that they cant beat a brand new game with 0 deaths as some sort of complete failure by the designers.
>>738298816>tfw never played any fromsoft gamesFeels good.
>>738298816souls games would be better if instead of fighting a bunch of small guys in an open world or interconnected linear areas, you fought a single big monster in a large but self-contained map. sigh...
>>738304780uh, no?you mean like Shadow of the Colossus? One of the worst things about souls games is when you're fighting some giant creature and you kill him by hacking at his ankles. If you want to fight a big monster and actually have interaction with him with different weapons, skills, whatever, then we have Dragon's Dogma
>>738299904>I cannot believe Fromsoft's janky ass combat became the industry standardwhy not?it's one of the easiest combat systems to create while enjoying immense popularity. making iframe dodge centric combat where a collision of hitboxes is forced is a lot easier than making something where you have to consider safe spots to position yourself in for every attack animation like old monsters hunter. you can pretty much just take any animation from UE store and work it into this type of game because player character movement speed etc does not factor into whether it'll work, all you have to do to make it wirk is to implement an iframe dodge and you're good to go.the surprising part is how it took this industry this long to figure out how to cut corners in combat design this way
Why do so few people attack bosses during their wind ups? I noticed this in Nightreign tooNot only does it do health/stance damage but it also helps timing your dodges
>>738300165GEDDAN
>>738304285>That twirlaaaaaaaahhh~
When I say so.
>>738300328This is what bosses look like to shitters who always claim "20 hit combo no openings"
>>738304280>Difficulty done poorly is when a person is unable to intuit what is about to happenNigga, plenty of people to this day believe that ghosts from pac-man behave randomly. What if the player is retarded and unable to comprehend the game's logic? Or if a game is simply very complex and hard to gasp without a guide? Is that kind of difficulty also 'poor'? >trial and error Every game in existence has trial and error
All of this used to be so funny, Dark Souls always had the best memes.
All difficulty is artificial because games are artificial.
>>738305476Monster Hunter is utter dogshit bro lol
The argument drones make that those games aren't hard kinda shoots them in the foot. Cause it is true that even twitch thots or DSP can finish those games if they hit their head against the wall enough times. It is just the matter of: are you willing to waste time failing again and again. There is nothing to brag about here when you waste 10 hours to beat some dark souls boss. It just means you find failing fun or have some weird form if masochism.
>>738298816>most telegraphed attack in the history of gaming>hits you more than onceSkill issue,what next? You're gonna complain that pulling punches in boxing or feinting in swordfighting is cheating/artificial difficulty?
>>738307182>It is just the matter of: are you willing to waste time failing again and againspoken like someone with no real skills in life.
>>738307548Some people do
>>738304581
>>738299904>industry standardrollslop is fucking awful, what are you talking about?
>>738303370kek, accurate webm.
>>738307794Kino
>>738307794>While fighting this mook I HAVE TO escape towards a bottomless pit which is the most unsafe place in the area because...ugghhh? >WTF DOOD, I fell? So unfair!Are all fromdrones like this?
>>738307794The fact that they started adding both input reading and attacks that are specifically timed to catch panic rolls is ridiculous.The best and worst of game design in one place.
>>738308625the game does not input read
When you post on /v/ about difficulty, that's when it becomes artificial.
Is this a fair attack?
>>738308848>erm ackshually it reads your animation
>Enemy slams their weapon full force straight down into the ground.>If this were any other game this would be the opening to attack.>But because it's a From game for some reason them lifting their weapon back up generates a shockwave around them that blasts your ass up into the air even if you were behind them.
>>738307610Don't even bring real skills into it cause you are shooting yourself in the foot again. If you care about those you shouldn't play any if those games cause it is a collosal waste of time that you should be spending on developing real life skills.
>>738298816When MP balalnce patches affect the single player campaign.I'm still mad about C&C3
Lies of P>Boss just looking at you, arms down, with no wind-up at all>Frame 1, their attack is hitting youShoulda perfect guarded it!
you see fromsoft went through the same difficulty armsrace with their players that shmups and arcade rhythm games did but because souls bosses cant start shooting polypatterns of bullets at you they come up with stupid shit like this to raise the difficulty higher.
>>738300328KEKKK'd out loud
>>738303370
>>738298816Considering just how bad /v/ is at video games (you can see this anytime a new release comes out), I'd reckon just about every "difficult" game has at one point or another been accused of artificial difficulty.
>>738303829I like to parry, but souls does it all wrong. Chiv2 does parry well because you have to see and react to the swing type and you have a real window of after they release a swing, not during their windup.
>>738311462lmao
>>738298816Elden Ring bosses are just badly designed. You'd never be able to brat them first time without prior knowledge unlike any other action game out there.
>>738309472Yeah after the demo I knew I wouldn't enjoy that game.
>>738307039Filtered by real combat
>>738300971>>738300328Someone else already posted it
>>738307647Why isn't this meta in sword fighting tournaments? You'd think if its so efective you'd see more often 2 retards bouncing like kangaroos with swords in hand in these competitions?
>>738298816Extraneous rules to enforce tedium. An example being in the Tomb Raider horse fucker trilogy the hardest difficulties have no autosave until you bonfire.
>>738298816Not accurate because he didnt track onto the target mid roll animation
>>738313328Your problem is you try to attack. Spend your first five minutes of the boss just avoiding attacks and learning its patterns.
